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Shadow Warrior VS Dark Messiah
Which is better?
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>>384874991
Dark Messiah melee combat is much more sophisticated, it's very baisc in SW.
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>>384874991
Melee combat is nowhere as good as Dark Messiah.
Firearms are nowhere as meaty or satisfying as any other FPS.
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>>384876025
Jesus christ I'm erect. When does the cinematic rollercoaster bullshit end and devs invest in FUN GAMEPLAY AND MECHANICS? (yeah I know, never ever)
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Shadow warrior is just meh in general
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You know everyone always talks about DMMM combat but the leveldesign is also fucking great.
Walking around in the orc island with all the interconnecting hallways and then going down into the catacombs and coming back up into the light and roping my way through the tunnels was pretty fucking amazing.
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>>384876025
and kicking them into spikes on the walls.
or killing them with an arrow and pinning them to the wall
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>Dark Messiah
>look down
>no wang
>Shadow Warrior
>look down
>there's Wang
I think the winner is clear.
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>>384880012
did they have all the cheesey prank calls in the remake?
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>>384880012
being gay is a meme faggot
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>>384879831
Never understood the appeal of the kicking meme.
Chopping off bodyparts is so much more statisfying.
A critical hit build with some minimal utility magic is the most enjoyable.
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>>384880170
no
IS YOUR REFRIGERATOR RUNNING?
BETTER CATCH IT HAHA
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>>384880228
Only if you can't handle the wang.
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>>384874991
In Dark Messiah, the first half was great, but the second half was awful.
I mean, what the fuck happened? From the spider tunnel onwards the game became garbage. Enemies started taking a million hits to kill (even with the strongest weapons), the bosses and fights became complete trash (that fucking spider boss and orc fight were infuriating), and the tomb full of non stop respawning zombies was honestly one of the worst videogame sections I've ever experienced with how frustrating it was to find everything whilst also getting poison fog in my face every 2 seconds.
I was doing a warrior build, and I can't imagine what it would be like for someone who speced in arrows and stealth and shit. Hell, if I didn't have that magic invulnerability shield, those nosferatu looking fucks that somehow take like 14 full power strikes to kill might have made me drop the game.
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>>384880228
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>>384880416
You probably played on harest difficulty which the game was not balanced around, you should be able to decap zombies with 2 hits on hard.
I hated the catacombs for other reason than difficulty, it was just too monotone after the colorful orc island.
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>>384880541
I was playing on normal I believe. Like I said, first half was fantastic. Really good stuff, and I got literally the most powerful weapons possible at all times and always did the blacksmithing puzzles and stuff.
After watching a few reviews, it seems like I'm not the only one who shares this opinion.
But yeah, the monotone colouring also sucked.
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>>384880228
>can't handle the wang
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>>384880749
In that case you probably didn't aim for the head or didn't imvest into chritical strikes and use the superior katana.
Spiders go down very fast with the fire sword.
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Dark Messiah by a COUNTRY FUCKING MILE. It's not even a contest.
To be honest, the first SW reboot really isn't very good. I have no idea where it's popularity around here comes from.
SW has surprisingly decent narrative and the melee is fun (though I'd argue much less satisfying than in Dark Messiah), but just about everything else about that game is pretty awful. The level design is abysmal, all guns are unsatisfying as fuck - there is a little variety to them too. The weapon upgrade system is ATTROCIOUS. There is virtually no enemy variety, mid-bosses are incredibly dull and bullet spongy, the game drags on FOREVER while keeping you in terrible, claustrophobic environments, entire classes of enemies are just pain the ass, the score system is literally broken...
Dark Messiah had it's own fair share of flaws, but it did the Arkane thing: it was creative and rewarded players for figuring out their own ways. It also had a solid environmental design too. It was a flawed game: many hiccups on the execution but really fun and creative core mechanics.
Meanwhile, SW is mostly just really damn fucking dull.
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>>384880749
>>384880416
I honestly don't remember those extreme damage sponges, and I've played it several times on hardest difficulty
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>>384881042
There's a hardcore difficulty which was patched in a few years later, it's gamebreakingly bad. Unless you abuse the ground finisher you won't get far, and even that is broken as you need to do it MULTIPLE times to finish them off.
I don't know why they included it, artificial difficluty by definition.
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>>384876025
I think I need to re-install Dark Messiah.
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>>384874991
Shadow Warrior is fun, but nothing beats Dark Messiah and its kick-everybody-off-of-cliffs gameplay.
If only Dark Messiah didn't have those segments where you fight spiders.
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>>384876025
Downloading now.
Post more cool webums
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>>384880353
There are plenty of games with satisfying dismemberments.
There's very few first person games where you can kick, and Dark Messiah is pretty much the only one with insta-death kicks.
Are you seriously telling me you don't understand the appeal of kicking someone into a spike wall, an open flame, or even a gigantic chasm with them screaming all the way down?
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>>384881874
It's cool and all, but it gets overstated to the point where the other neat stuff doesn't even get mentioned.
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>>384876025
played this game so many fucking times
SO MANY FUCKING TIMES AND ILL NEVER EVER GET A SEQUEL
FUCK BETHESDA
FUCK THEM
XANA BEST GIRL
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Dying Light is a superior and (in a way) spiritual successor to Dark Messiah.
Fact.
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>>384874991
>give your back to a huge drop
>put ice in front of you
>make noise so enemies come to fight you
>they all run headfirst into you, slip and fall down the drop
*screams of horror slowly fades*
this shit never gets old
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>>384881775
I saw this game mentioned lots of times over the years, but I never bothered to check out the gameplay.
Now that I see what it is like, I feel like I have discovered a gem. Hope the game is actually good.
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>>384882125
It's a MASSIVELY flawed one.
From terrible balance and difficulty curve, past widely uneven quality of level design, past terrible performance and huge issues even running on new machines, past awkward visuals and story... It's really littered with issues.
Like every other Arkane game. Amazing at core and at moments, but really littered with issues, mostly related to bad balance, bad story/writing, clear rushing, lack of testing and technical issues. Just be warned.
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>>384882090
I dream of a Arx Fatalis 2 with DM combat and travel from city to city.
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>>384882284
Ok thanks.
At least I don't have to feel bad for pirating it.
Installing now
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>>384882284
The balance it perfect on normal, hard is good for replays when you know what you are doing.
I have never seen any performance issues, but head of them. Disabling Aero by switching to classic theme probably helps like with many other older games.
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>>384882338
Considering the continuous poor luck that has been hitting Arkane lately, the fact that one of their main designers and creative spirits of the studio just felt basically implying that he is kinda sick of the industry, utter loss of faith from Bethesda they are probably now experiencing... I don't think that is very likely.
>>384882430
>The balance it perfect on normal, hard is good for replays when you know what you are doing.
It's not. The game is laughably easy in the first half on normal, which makes the combat actually pretty unsatisfying, as most enemies feel like they are made out of pudding and twigs, while some late-game enemies start to already be annoing and frustrating a bit.
On hard the early game is perfect, but my god does the late game just get obnoxious.
There are other issues related to the balance too: namely classess and specializations. They are hugely inbalanced, in fact. With stealth being a fucking joke in like 1/3rd of the game, for an example.
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>>384880012
>SW
>look up
>no Xana
>DM
>look up
>there's Xana
It really is.
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>>384882284
>hehe look at me making things up!
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>>384874991
Dark Messiah is fucking perfect in every way.
Love that game.
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>>384883043
What?
Are you OK there? Need a little help? Maybe medical attention?
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I liked both.
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>>384883128
you're literally memeing, the exact kind of shit that gets posted here day in and day out, "poor level design" "difficulty curve" "terrible performance" without actually specifying anything. Typical.
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>>384874991
Are there any games with first person magic like in messiah? I really like playing a mage in this.
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>>384883297
The game had major issues, both on release actually compatibility issues with modern computers (just google the damn thing).
The level design is hugely unaballanced in terms of quality. While many of the levels are great, some segments, including the fucking caves are ATTROCIOUS while others are just really boringly linear (second visit to the city) or flat-out hideous to look at (the necromants levels). Most of the levels I mentioned also suffer with the problem that they really fail to accomodate all player builds equally, resulting in segments where stealth/range oriented characters are basically screwed out of any options to take advantage of their builds in the caves.
The difficulty cure is SHIT and it has actually been both confirmed as a complaint by other people and very clearly specified: Early game is far too easy on normal difficulty, while the orks are actually a little too damage spongy even on normal, on hard the early game is great but the later game enemies turn into absolute chorse that makes non-enviromnental (instakill) approaches an absolute pain in the ass.
Furthermore, as mentioned, the balance is off between classes and specializations.
The real question here is: why are you so god damn fucking pathetic?
Literally cannot deal with the idea that your favorite game is actually also very flawed? Is that making you shit your pants?
You should see a doctor.
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>>384880416
>and the tomb full of non stop respawning zombies
>rope bow to the platforms on the sides
>jump up and down and be safe from all their attacks
Also, straight up hitting the vampire knights probably is the wrong way to fight cause they block everything, you gotta fight with the environment and use barrels
Barrels are the most OP.
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>>384883297
Just because he's not sucking your game off doesn't mean he's "meming" you inept fuck
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>no option of letting both leanna and xana live and giving leanna to xana to slowly turn into a virgin slut
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>>384884781
>Allowing a manipulative wench to live
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>>384884920
>not wanting to use her to become Eskimo brothers with your father with DPing her
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Shadow warrior was way better than DM.
I played the whole game with the katana.
That dashing and slashing is crack for me.
Shame SW2 was more gun oriented
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>>384882338
the guy who made both games left the studio, you can stop dreaming now
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>>384880416
The game peaked with the Temple of the Spider, but the second half is far from being awful. The whole game is amazing all throughout.
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>>384876025
environmental discructables does not make a combat system sophisticated or interesting.
I've studied various combat systems and dark messiah is not impressive from a technical gameplay standpoint.
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>>384882105
At least it's mechanically more interesting than dark messiah. But still not very impressive.
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>>384886435
It's not just environmental interaction, the different attack types from directional movement also have different propeties like knockdown, increased damage and stagger.
Enemies can doge away from your stikes, all weapons have different adrenaline finishers and magic gets various special effects from it.
You don't know shit.
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>>384886678
Having various different attacks is useless if they don't change much about what you can do after, which in the case of dark messiah is just walking towards them and hitting them again isn't it? Is there a certain type of attack that allows you to follow up with something unique?
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>>384886435
>I've studied various combat systems
Yeah, while you were getting your shitposting PhD and a contrarian licence.
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>>384874991
Nah Shadow Warrior.
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>there are people who sided with Leanna instead of Xana
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>>384886981
> Is there a certain type of attack that allows you to follow up with something unique?
Left directional sword attack can knock down enemies, you can switch to daggers and thow it at a grounded enemy for example as seen here
>>384876025
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>>384887037
Nope. I actually did. I have a website about it with video examples of how to break outside the intended bariers of combat system, create new types of movement, attack types, techniques, and how to combine them. Been working at it for at least 2 years now. Quite interesting. I've taken a look at some other games that are considered deep like fear and dm but i didn't find anything of similar substance. in dishonored you can delay a windblast with a certain input combination, allowing you to blink at and hit the just launched enemy. Stuff like that. Stuff that requires practice and allows you to do new things. I've never ever seen a demonstration of something like that in dm by any player.
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>>384887282
There is fucking 2 seconds between the downing attack and the dagger throw. It hardly comes across as a fluid combination of attacks.
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>>384887392
>I have a website about it with video examples
Doesn't matter what you have, your laughable posts reek of "I don't like it, but I'll try to to sell my simplistic and dumb opinion as something very reasonable and well grounded as hard as I can". The funnies thing is that you aren't doing the latter well, at all. You completely fail both in substance and form.
>Been working at it for at least 2 years now.
So you wasted time in a thing that you can't do well, and now you are using that as a sort of authority. Neat.
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>>384884781
>Not killing Xana and that blonde whore and enjoy invading and pillaging the world with your dad
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>>384887812
Dude literally. Good action games have advanced techniques that you can create from combining various normal actions. dm just has normal actions. It ends there. There are no combinations, no advanced techniques besides maybe bunnyhopping which has existed since quake 3.
Good action games have at least 20 advanced techniques if not more. dm has like 3, unless you count speedrunning clips, in which case it has like what? 5?
Prove me wrong. Post interesting combat shit. The stuff that was posted in this thread? That slipping and sliding video? I call that normal gameplay. That is how everyone plays who isn't a casual numbskull.
Prove me wrong. I dare you to try.
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>>384887207
>there are people who sided with a literal succubus
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>>384888519
>people didn't alt+f4 to prevent having to choose between the most shallow love interests in a game ever.
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>>384888519
>>384887207
>There are people who sided with fucking womens
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>>384888339
>Good action games have advanced techniques that you can create from combining various normal actions.
Somehow, they only count when those don't involve use of environment, which is something that DM excels in. Also, attacks actually do chain, there is a noticeable difference between wind-up speed between certain types of attacks. Spells and melee attacks can also be chained together to create new effects.
Really, this is pathetic. You deem yourself a completely arbitrary joke judge of systems based on your own shitty fucking preferences declared to be semi-objective criteria. This is a joke, it's actually fucking cringeworthy to read.
Here you retard.
>>384881364
>>384880353
>>384876025
Looking for your shitty explanation of how that totally does not count because only things that involve timed combo inputs or whatever pathetic arbitrary random marker have you in your infinite deep profound technical knowledge of combat systems have you decided to validate your ego.
>>
They're both garbage. Dark Messiah is an overrated source mod.
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>>384889720
Late bait to revive the thread, good man.
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>>384888871
>>384881364
I'm only seeing a strike and a kick. 2 button inputs, not requiring any timing.
>>384880353
2 seconds of hitstun, 1 attack, a missed attack, and another attack. Enemies do get knocked back but it doesn't really change anything because you can freely move while attacking. Might as well not have the enemies move at all.
>>384876025
i've talked about this already. 2 inputs with 2 seconds of time in between.
This is all normal gameplay. almost everyone can do this, without practice. There is no timing involved.
environmental stuff isn't interesting in any game because it almost always kills enemies in one hit, doesn't require timing, and is only situational. It's not a technique you can use anywhere and opens up more options when mastered.
I'll post an example in a second.
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>>384890806
Dude, HOW THE FUCK did you figure out anyone cares what you think or see at this point? People are fucking laughing at you for Christ sake.
You post shit like this for fuck sake!
>environmental stuff isn't interesting in any game
This is amazing!
>I'll post an example in a second.
Nobody fucking cares! Why would you ever fucking think anyone fucking cares?
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>>384888871
Also, it's not just about ego. It's about not finding the same challenge in most games just because i've seen it all and i expect there to be a complex system for me to experiment with and explore. Shit to practice. Things to learn. Just like when I was younger.
The fact that others are content with superficial combat systems doesn't mean I have a high arbitrary standard or some shit. It just means I've been playing a bit longer, and a bit more than most people. Everyone will eventually end up where I am now, where most games have just gotten boring and only a few of them still provide the type of challenge they seek.
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>>384891021
SERIOUS question.
How far into the autistic spectrum are you?
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>>384890997
I don't give a shit about if anyone cares or not. It's about wanting more technical and complex games in the future. In order to do that people must be informed of the best games for that, and get used to that level of complexity. This will make them smarter people, more skilled players, and they will influence others to do the same. Hopefully making a small change in the industry towards more technically complex games. When I'm shitposting. I make sure it is about this subject, because otherwise in 3 generations we'll still be playing cod level complexity games.
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>>384891224
Just as deep as I am in your mother's asshole
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>>384887921
>not almost puring Xana from you only to turn around when she begs you to and promises to serve you forever, then kill blond bore, and finally going to play world conqueror with your old man
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>>384891595
That's the olny right way.
Gotta show this slut her place and bro up with best dad.
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>>384891021
>Shit to practice. Things to learn. Just like when I was younger.
As if practicing and learning how to wriggle your fingers around was anything at all.
If you want to "practice" something with your hands learn boxing. That uses every part of your body and not just your fucking thumbs.
'2 inputs per second' How about you try running for 10 minutes and see how many inputs you can get out of your legs before you vomit?
Loser.
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>>384891981
You are on /v/, this is not /sports/ bruh. Do you say the same thing to chess players? Your kind is not wanted here. Get out normie
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>>384891981
Also I'm currently at 9 inputs per second.
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>>384892143
Chess players don't talk about their "inputs per second", they talk about tactics and strategy. Now that is respectable.
Seriously what type of fucking cripple thinks how fast he moves his fingers is something to "practice" or "be proud of" and this is coming from a guy that 1 credits arcade games.
Why not add masturbation speed as a category of skill as well? "OMG dude I do 120 APM when jerking off! So much skillz"
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>>384892472
>Seriously what type of fucking cripple thinks how fast he moves his fingers is something to "practice" or "be proud of"
Someone who plays an instrument
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>>384888871
>Really, this is pathetic. You deem yourself a completely arbitrary joke judge of systems based on your own shitty fucking preferences declared to be semi-objective criteria. This is a joke, it's actually fucking cringeworthy to read.
The funniest thing is that the average shitposter can do that much better than him. "Been working at it for at least 2 years now" and can't even sell his own "what I personally prefer is better than the games" better than most brainless idiots that infest this place, truly a fucking joke. I seriously hope that he's underage.
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>>384874991
Shadow Warrior is a low budget garbage. Dark Messiah is better.
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>>384891358
>I don't give a shit about if anyone cares or not.
See >>384891224
Seriously, you actually have mental issues. Quite serious ones. From completely unjustified delusions of grandeur past actual incapability to understand most basic social notions and understanding other people, to plain, old fucking stupidity.
That is sad. You do need a lot of help.
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>>384892624
No one is proud or practices mashing buttons on the instrument. They do it to make the music.
Geeze you're a fucking idiot, need to explain something as basic as why people play instruments to you.
I suppose you think the reason people brush their teeth is increase their APM of moving a toothbrush around in circles.
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>>384891783
>Evil overlord hellbent on taking over the world, but will happily share it with his long lost son because he's so grateful
I can't believe there are people who'd betray the best and most sincere dad in video games, other bad dads would just throw him aside like a used condom
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>>384882682
>DM
>look down
>theres Xana
Fixed that for you.
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>>384892624
Actually this is quite similar to the type of stuff I focus on in games. Learning precise rhythmic patterns and loops.
>>384892472
It comes with a different type of skill, but it still requires practice and discipline just like your 1cc games. The only difference is that the stuff I do is technical and requires some thinking as well as solution finding, and 1cc a typical shmup is actually very simplistic, however hard it might be. Flappy bird might be up your alley, it's also incredibly hard, while being one of the most simple forms of gameplay there is. This is apparently your thing.
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>>384892816
Thank you for your insightful psychological evaluation. It was very helpful. I'll let you know if I decide to use your services again.
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>>384874991
Played Dark Messiah the other day on hardest difficulty. It comes very close to being good but just falls flat.
Parrying isn't consistent when the enemies' attacks will damage you before the animation even begins. The damage is instant and unpredictable. Maybe I'm spoiled by Dark Souls, but you should be able to see an attack and react to it. Slashing with regular attacks quickly becomes pointless as it takes about 100 of them to kill anything and a power-attack or kick will cause knockdown leading to an instant kill.
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>>384893565
There are ways of predicting enemy attacks without looking at their animation. It's not my personal preference either but it is possible.
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>>384893662
No it isn't. The damage hitbox touches you before they even begin swinging their weapon. Couple this with the wildly inaccurate hitboxes and it becomes a frustrating mess. I literally just played the game.
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>>384893215
OK you definitly are defective. I spent 3 posts insulting you for thinking that the skill of mashing bits of plastic or metal with your fingers is respectable. Than your big comeback is to say that you are probably better at mashing bits of plastic than me.
Did everything go over your head. You might as well brag about being able to eat more goat shit than me.
Non-autsteic people play games for the experience of being part a virtual world. If mashing buttons really well is nessiary to complete the feeling of immersion than you do it (as it is in action games).
You still don't get why people are making fun of you for talking about video games as a "test of input skill". You know what the only people in the world other than autestic gamers who care about APM are? Secretaries.
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>>384893864
Yes it is.
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>>384893864
It possible to predict according to movement, distance, and AI quirks. Well i'm speaking from a general gaming standpoint. Not specifically dm
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>>384893312
Says the person who jumps into a thread to shit on something to gain the attetion and opportunity to compare himself to a musical virtuous and belitlle everyone because of how superior his limb-based combat games are.
I think this might be the most cringeworthy thing I've seen on this board in maybe a year. I did not think autists like you are still around this fucking place.
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>>384894010
>shows a webm of a player taking damage to the point of nearly dying to prove that damage is avoidable
bravo, retard.
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>>384893864
Look, the point about using basic and slashing attacks in later game is valid, but the one about impossibility to parry is just plain bullshit. I'm not even particularly great at the game but man I had never problem with parrying or in general getting damaged from anyone within the visible spectrum. The only problem - inherent to most melee FPS is reduced situational awareness outside of your FOV.
That said, I do stand behind you with the redundancy of basic attacks in late game, especially on harder difficulty. I assume the point was to encourage invironmental kills even more but man, it was not a great decision, and the one thing that bothered me about it quite a lot.
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>>384894209
The damage was recieved because of attacking at the same time you imbecile.
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>>384894209
That attack was telegraphed as fuck. He just timed his attack badly.
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>>384893864
>says Dark Souls spoiled him
>complains about Dark Messiah hitboxes
lmao
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