Why was it the best game in the series?

1 and 3 were the best.

>>38480797
It won't be Survive thats for sure.

>>384808125
/thread

>>384807971
it wasn't

camo swapping was annoying and xray/surgery was gimmicky

>>384808254
I liked it

Gave me a bit more to do than just run through the jungle. Also meant you had to plan ahead more.

The condec calls were the best in all of the games and I actually gave a shit about the side characters unlike most of the other games.

MGSV > Ghost Babel > 4 > Peace Walker > 1 > Portable Ops > 3 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> literal shit >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2

>>384808254
I dunno tormenting slavshits, throwing live snakes at them, tranqing the End's bird and eating it in front of him was pretty fun in my book desu.

>>384808417
it's just that 2's story was so complex and uncohesive that 3 was a nice breather

3

>>384808676
>it's just that 2's story was so complex and uncohesive
that took MGS4 to fix

>>384808429
I could forgive everything in your terrible list except for the fact 4 isn't at the bottom.

>>384808417
>tfw you will never go on a midnight movie date with Para-Medic and get stuffed on ramen
feelsprettybadman

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>>384808801
>Forget to take Para-Medic on a date
>She clones you and experiments on people for the next 30 years out of spite

>>384808938
or she could just suspend you somewhere in her laboratory and milk you for the next 30 years desu. anything works for me.

>>384808125
yes, but was the first one the best?

I still have trouble believing paramedic turned out to be dr.clark. I wonder if she still liked movies, throwing shit up to watch while torturing grey fox.

>>384808254
Tiger stripe + splitter nets you 60-80% camo index through the vast majority of the game.

>>384809230
I refuse to believe that she went that far off the deep end, she was pure wife material. Should have given her the mating press while she was still fresh and ignorant.

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>>384807971
>stand-alone story
>Levels vary from factory to outposts to jungles
>Cold war setting
>different camo helps in different areas
>Captivating story
it's good fun all around

>>384807971
A clear storyline with improved Gameplay mechanics and better AI.

>brainlets circlejerk over their saturday morning cartoon
classic snake eater behavior.

>>384810347
I liked MGS 1, 2, and 3 but for different reasons.

>>384810347
>its the Saturday morning cartoon faggot again

Get a new angle my friend, you're getting stale.

>>384810347
don't talk shit about my wife you faggot!

>>384810668
It's because there are tons of things to still discuss about sons of liberty, there is nothing left to be said about snake eater, it's some shitty self insert story made for brainlets that couldn't handle MGS2.

>>384810347
MGS3 is a saturday morning cartoon?

It feels more like a Bond movie

>>384810918
>It's because there are tons of things to still discuss about sons of liberty

repeating the same shit does not count

>there is nothing left to be said about snake eater, it's some shitty self insert story
which is ironic because MGS2 Raiden was apparently supposed to be a self insert. At least that is what the fans spout

The first time you play it, it feels like the best game in the series. The more you play it tho the more I feel like MGS2 was the superior game

>>384811352
There is a vast difference between a character that reflects the player, constantly clashes with his expectations and the action hero archetype like Raiden and an empty vessel self insert character that embodies the action hero without ever requiring any introspection from the player.
Reflect=/=Self insert.

>>384807971
2>1=3 >>>>>>>powergap>>>>>4

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>16 years later and people are still assblasted over Raiden

Kojimbo is the master of the ruse cruise

>>384813115
what I don't get is that MGS2 fans can't see past the fact that Raiden on his own is a bad character.

If there was no bait and switch, Raiden would still be crap

>>384813914
Raiden is and always will be the Wimp Lo of the Metal Gear franchise.

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>>384812946
this

>>384813914
people do seem to hate things they don't understand

>>384808125
Metal Gear Solid 2 was better than 1.
Actually, so was Metal Gear 2

>>384813914
You're SUPPOSED to hate Raiden. He's a whingy, weak, high pitched fanboy.
Just like you.

Because you can make a camo from your ballsack and cheese the entire game
My ballsack made 85% camo which was 95% with the green paint

1 and 2, which coincidentally happen to be the only canon games.

>>384816715
Why should I hate him after revengance?

>>384808139
>Post doesn't show up in archive
G-guys?

>>384816715
so it's forgiven for a character to be bad if it was on purpose?

I thought the medical treatment part was cool. It's bizarre how games just gloss over damage with a dink in the life bar.

>>384818069
>i hate a character therefore it's bad

>>384808254

you don't need to swap camo at all

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>>384817137
>Why should I hate him after revengance?

MGS2 fans do not consider 4 and Rising to be official because:
4 - ruins all the "mystery" of MGS2 by explaining everything and making Raiden better
Revengance - further reinforces the new character of Raiden established by 4

>>384818336
he was a bad character because he whined all the fucking time.

The setting was by far the coolest in any Metal Gear. Cold War James Bond espionage gives me a huge fucking hard on.

>>384818538
He is supposed to whine everytime. Raiden's character plays a certain role in the message that Kojima is trying to make by making him the main character and everything about him is perfectly done in order to fullfill that role.
If you don't like it that's fine but that doesn't make him a bad character.

>>384819720
again with this message bullshit?

>>384821281
Yes since messages are in every fucking mgs game since MGS1 you dumbass. Go watch a yourtube video if you're too stupid to figure it out you mouthbreathing loser.

>>384807971
Because you don't have to play the others to enjoy it.

>>384808254
You don't need a fucking 90 camo index all the damn time.

>>384811610
Wut?

>>384821712
MGS4 throws out MGS2 so why should I?

>>384807971
mg2 and mgs1 are the best ones

>>384823582
You shouldn't. MGS2 was such a clusterfuck that MGS4 had to spend so much time attempting to unfuck what it did.

>>384823582
You shouldn't throw out MGS2, it's actually the best game in the series, throw out MGS4 since it's for mouthbreathing retards who can't handle a bit of ambiguity and need everything explained to them in 25 minute cutscenes.

>>384824470
>You shouldn't throw out MGS2

MGS4 did. Just following the standards Hideo set

>>384808938
Do you think Paramedic /ss/'d the clones of BB?

>>384823582
MGS4 threw out all the MGS games before it. Shit game.

>>384824608
>he can't see the self hatred subtext in mgs4
You are hopeless, perhaps MGS is too deep for you.

>>384824763
that's in every mgs game though

>>384825029
Nah, just mgs4.

>>384824763
if there was subtext, it was missed due to all the shit needed to explain/fix MGS2.

That cluster fuck, despite >>384824470's claims of having A BIT ambiguity, needed an entire game to explain.

>>384825815
So you're one of those people who can't handle ambiguity then. Since mgs2 didn't need explaining.

>>384826468
>Since mgs2 didn't need explaining.

that's a crock of shit

>>384826730
Were you sleeping during the last 30 minutes of the game?

Is the 3ds port good?

>>384826830
No but I wasn't paying attention to an AI that went "I need scissors, 61!" and "doing kick flips off of Hara-Kiri rock" earlier in the game

I can not take a speech seriously from someone who said retarded crap like that and in this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ul8j9I90ueM

>>384826830
Not sleeping. Probably just sitting there brain dead waiting to shoot his gun again

>>384826730
>>384827010
Sounds like the fault lies with you instead of the game. The game explains everything that needs to be explained and the final speech from Snake is pretty obvious in its message.

>>384825178
nah, every mgs up until 4

mgs1:
-solid snake hates himself for becoming a cold-blooded killer, and for getting meryl shot
-liquid hates himself for being genetic garbage
-otacon hates himself for being weak and naive
-meryl also hates herself for being weak and naive
-sniper wolf hates herself for selling her soul for revenge
-campbell hates himself for being used and for lying to snake
-psycho mantis hates himself for being the cause of misery since the day he was born

mgs2:
-raiden hates his past so much that he tries to depersonalize himself
-rose hates herself for spying on raiden and lying to him
-stillman hates himself for being fatman's mentor, and acting like a victim his entire life
-otacon hates himself for abandoning his family
-solidus and president johnson hate themselves for being pawns of the patriots
-olga hates herself for betraying her comrades

mgs3:
-snake hates himself for killing the boss and taking everything from her, this continues for the rest of his life
-the boss hates herself for being a tool for politicians
-most of the other characters aren't relevant enough, e.g. cobras being one-note characters and volgin being the most straightforward archvillain in the franchise

in all of the games, the characters who survive more or less learn to live with themselves, ending each game on a more hopeful and optimistic note

>>384827179
excpet after that speech, you are reduced to that shitty katana

>>384809902
also
>feels like a sandbox game without needing open world
>memorable OST
>memorable and varied bosses
>comfy codec chats
>impactful ending

>>384827235
it's the game's fault for reusing an avatar for the Patriot AI instead of going with a new one

>>384827308
You don't seem to get what i mean with the self hatred subtext in mgs4.
The self hatred is with Kojima and him finishing up the storyline with 4 when he didn't want to. The signs are obvious.
>All the fan service
>Snake is literally an old man so there can be no game after 4
>Raiden is now cool ninja guy
>All the myster from 2 is gone
>Every supernatural thing is explained away with nanomachines
>Shadow moses is on the brink of disspearing into the ocean
There are more examples but that's what i mean.
You are not wrong though.

>>384827335
Yeah, I bet it was a real tantrum moment for most American gamers

>>384827527
Why would there be a new avatar. Campbell was the AI from the very beginning.
And that's not a valid reason for not paying attention. Like i said, the fault lies with you.

>>384824628
From the way she flirted with BB and talked about how he is literally the perfect specimen, I can't see her missing such an opportunity.

>>384827802
I hated the controls of the sword when I tried it in the hallway so I never bothered with it

and then I was forced to use it for the Solidus fight

>>384827818
>Why would there be a new avatar.
because it was a different AI

If I wanted an obscure philosophy lesson I'd seek one out. MGS3 was the better game because it was an actual FUN game, not a vague attempt at philosophy that's been done to death by far better writers than Kojima with a few escort missions and running from A to B thrown in.

>>384819720
Existence of the message doesn't mean that this message was done well, especially in Kojima games.

>>384828039
It's still a very minor thing to make you skip the entire last part.

>>384828375
That's a entire different discussion and ultimately depends on your tastes.

I don't know. I love all 5 pretty equally and it's hard for me to choose a favorite. I only know PW is complete ass.

>>384828039
>hating the sword
I'm disgusted.

>>384828516
PW had the best Codec calls, its a shame the game itself was shit.

>>384807971
Because it was the most fun to play. Is this a bait thread??

>>384828463
>It's still a very minor thing to make you skip the entire last part.

Minor? It made it seem like the same moron was talking to Raiden.

>>384828604
controls were ass

>>384828769
Not if you payed attention you moron.

>>384827308
I really wish the Cobra Unit got expanded upon more. The idea of those guys tearing shit through WW2 Europe is cool, but we know next to nothing of their personalities besides the Sorrow and the Boss.

>>384828948
at the time I payed MGS2 I just stopped caring about everything because everything went off the rails in a bad way.

The AI going nuts didn't help.

>>384807971
It was fun.

>>384829170
That's not the game's fault though.

>>384827658
how does fanservice = self-hatred? also, source that kojima didn't want the storyline to end with mgs4? he kept saying each game would be his last one

>Snake is literally an old man so there can be no game after 4
snake was considered an old man since mgs1. but yes, mgs4 is solid snake's swan song

>Raiden is now cool ninja guy
kojima loves cool ninja guys, raiden was already heading that way since mgs2. he was basically gray fox 2.0

>Every supernatural thing is explained away with nanomachines
explaining everything with nanomachines is something that had begun since mgs1. psycho mantis and vulcan raven are the only really supernatural characters in mgs1 and mantis is in mgs4 anyway. vamp was borderline, he could have been some kind of strange android for all anyone knew

>Shadow moses is on the brink of disspearing into the ocean
global warming was a more controversial subject in 2008 than it is now. i don't see how this has to do with any sort of self-deprecation theme

i'm surprised you didn't point out the line "the world would be better off without snakes" and other similar examples

>>384827658
>Raiden is now cool ninja guy
>All the mystery from 2 is gone

these are good things

>>384827818
>>384828039
you're both partially right. campbell was not the ai, he was the result of the patriots stimulating areas of raiden's brain by manipulating his nanomachines. campbell was just a guise that gw donned, and later on the second ai did the same thing

>I hated the controls of the sword when I tried it in the hallway so I never bothered with it. and then I was forced to use it for the Solidus fight

me too, you get used to them though. i found solidus to be one of the easier fights on extreme

>>384829642
>he kept saying each game would be his last one
Why ask for source when you already know it.

MGS2 was supposed to be Kojima's final game, the final message is all about passing on the torch to the next generation or Kojima passing on the torch of Metal Gear to his team. Something happened during the developement of 3 that made him not leave afterall but there is a reason why 3 is a prequel instead of a sequel and that's because 2 was supposed to be the ending.
Everything being explained is an obvious sign of Kojima ending the series. And the fact that literally everything gets explained so no game can get made after 4 could be a sign of Kojima's self hatred. It's like he did a 180 when it came to storytelling in 4.

Many fans disliked Raiden and didn't get the message that was being made by making him the main character. So he made him the cool ninja guy as fanservice. He then proceeded to turn the fanservice up to eleven causing the game and even the whole series to suffer for it. (an example is Psycho Mantis wondering if it would be better to use his powers for good in mgs1 but then he becomes evil again in mgs4 as a ghost)
These are all clear signs of Kojima hating mgs4,
the fanbase.

That's my take on it anyway.

>>384807971
Thought it was better than the others yo

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>>384829642
>mgs4 is solid snake's swan song

>Gameplay
Phantom Pain
>Story
Metal Gear Solid
>Overall
Sons of Liberty

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>>384807971
You appear to have posted an image of the wrong game OP, let me fix that for you

>>384808785
This. I don't understand how people complain about the Uncharted series, which is a decent action-adventure series, and then a large bunch of people love MSG4 which is one of the worst third person shooters ever made.

>>384831186
mgs2's ending speech is much less triumphant than that comic makes it seem.

"let the world be" originated in mgs2. mgs2's message was about not trying to force things on coming generations of people, but embracing your own past, learning from mistakes, and passing knowledge on to the future

mgs4 is a more pessimistic counterpart to that optimism. snake sees things heading in a much worse direction, but he feels powerless to change anything, so all he can do is fight for his own sake. mgs4 is about feeling irrelevant, like no one is listening to you because you're old, but in the end proving that you still have something to live for. you can see shadows of it in mgs1

but yeah, it's his swan song. that's what a swan song is, a last hurrah