How come this console utterly BTFO the N64?

>>384750790

The controller wasn't retarded. It had more than five good games. Optical media meant better game storage for entertainment centers. Adults bought the consoles for themselves. Many reasons.

>>384751096
/thread

n64 had good games, but ps1 was 20 times better
It had quantity over quality and even a lot of quality to match n64.
N64 has like 100 games maybe and most are good, but ps1 has like 300+ and a shit ton are good or okay

>>384750790
Final Fantasy VII

>>384751638
n64 had Oot
so what?
N64 had great games, ps1 had great games
ps1 just had more selection and variety

>Massive third party support

>Great price point

>CD technology (500 megabytes compared to 4-64 megabytes)

>Quality as well as quantity in games

It's not really rocket science, I don't know why people pretend that Nintendo consoles have ever sold that well compared to its competition, the Wii was a fluke.

Piracy.

>>384750790
it didn't

/thread

>>384751763
>/thread in your own post
Lmao how sad

>>384750790
Fun games

Sony had reputation for making quality products

Nice controller

Good AD campaign

Affordable

>>384750790
it used CDs instead of cartridges and unlike the Saturn it wasn't a nightmare to work with for 3d games. Nintendo really shot themselves in the foot with their anti piracy measures over the years

>>384750790
The real reason is that the third world uptake of the console was enormous. People in poor countries would just put a modchip inside and play exclusively burned games. N64 only sold successfully in the wealthiest countries that weren't Japan and U.K. (USA, Germany and Australia).

That's the reason that despite PS1's enormous game library and much cheaper games (sometimes half price or more) the software attach rate for the PS1 was only marginally higher than N64.

So want the real reason? Blame poors.

>>384752015
Poor people drive the economy

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good games

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What looks better
Crash 2 or Star Fox 64?

>>384750790
>Nintendo had to delay the N64 to iron out some issues
>SEGA shot themselves in the foot by releasing the Saturn two months early but only at select retailers with an extremely limited supply and zero games

Meanwhile Sony benefited
>N64 still used cartridges, which were expensive to mass produce. Sony opted for CDs which could not only hold more data but also be produced far cheaper. As a result many devs jumped ship when games couldn't work properly on carts
>Was $100 cheaper than the Saturn
>License fee for developers was apparently only $10
>Sony actively courted developers, as they were new to the business, and needed to foster solid relations

>>384751295
PS1 had 2,453 games total on it. (including Japan only titles)

That's crazy!

>>384752479
AND THEY ALL FIT ON THE PS4 HARD DRIVE

>>384752308
to be fair, the Crash Bandicoot games have aged better graphically than most PS1 games

>>384752308
Crash 2 has nicer aesthetics but Star Fox 64.is more of a grand spectacle.

I played a lot of games on N64 but the only one I come back to today is Star Fox 64.

I dint get a PS1 until the PS2 was well out (poor family) but it's home to some of my all time favorites.

the real question is what made the dreamcast fail

>>384751763
PS1 - 102 million units sold

N64 - 39 million units sold

Cmon now, lets be real here.

>>384750790
Excellent marketing. But it also nutured the seeds of attracting normalfags torwards gaming by having ads in MTV and celebrities playing with it, SEGA had planted those normalfag seeds by having a lot of sports games on the Genesis.

>>384750790
Piracy.

>>384752736
N64 sold more around 33 million actually

>>384750790
Controller
3rd parties
CDs
Massive marketing campaign at the right place and the right time(FFVII's for example)

>>384752675
Never recovered after the fiasco that was the Sega Saturn under SoA.

>>384750790
I had lots of sound and third party support. N64 just had Mario and Zelda (same as every other nintendo console after it)

Came out before the N64 and most people had already jumped on the bandwagon of the first truly 3D console, so as usual nintendo couldn't secure a hefty amount of third party support, or I should say this is when it started to go downhill for nintendo in that arena, I guess.

Also the playstation just had insane numbers of games, even if half of them were shit, just by sheer numbers it had great titles too, and a lot of boundries were pushed on the hardware, so it made for a lot of memorable games doing a lot of "first time" things, like how FF7 revolutionized cutscenes, for instance.

>>384752736
Here's a fun fact. Sony sold approximately 33 million PS1 consoles after the PS2 came out, which was also the time the N64 started to get discontinued.

During the finale of the actual console war, the sales were 66 million PS1 and 33 million N64. But the third world was really hungry for PS1 consoles with mod chips so Sony made good cash on hardware there.

>>384752015
Mexican here and I can absolutely confirm me and my classmates bought the PS1 and later the PS2 when they got modchipped.

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>>384752781
>steal our tactic
>rape us with PS2 hype
it's not fucking fair

>>384750790
RPGs
Up through the PS2/xbox/Gamecube generation, before the first expansion of the gaming market to include dudebros took full effect, all consoles that won their respective generation did so because they had more quality RPGs.

>>384752389
This guy here sums it up bretty much perfect

>>384752736
>cd-rom load speeds

It was a fine time to switch to PC. Sony went for some eco poverty drive that wasn't even the standard by the time the system came out.

Because it was great.

SPYRO THE DRAGON

>>384751718
>the Wii was a fluke
The waggle gimmick was insanely popular, it's just that Nintendo fumbled it by not expanding their library with anything but shovelware after 2 years.

>>384753104
The importance of RPGs to PS1 is a meme. The only RPGs on the console that sold over a million copies were the three mainline FF games.

Here's other kewl fact. FFVII is the most returned-to-store game in the history of vidya.

>>384751096
fpbp

>>384753104
>all consoles that won their respective generation did so because they had more quality RPGs

No, they had the "system seller" RPG, e.g. FFVII for the playstation. And that's only really relevant to Japan, the west liked sports games and shoot things games.

>>384750790
N64 games were way more expensive than PS1 games.
I remember Mario 64 being $70 or something at launch.
While Crash was $40.

>>384753297
>Toddler being this mad

>>384751096
>The controller wasn't retarded
underage baby detected

the PS1 controller didn't even have analogue sticks for the first 3 years

>>384752675
Tech TV Icons made made a 30 min documentary that explains it perfectly. Recommend watching it. It's on YouTube. Icons was a great show for video game history.

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>>384753372
PS1 had more and cheaper games.

>>384753410
pre-analog stick PS1 controllers are still a lot better than the stupid mutant N64 controller.

>>384753585
>stupid mutant N64 controller
le three hands xD :DD

>>384753668
>nintenbro melting down

lol

>>384752015
Brazilian here and I can confirm this, we pirate everything, 360 became the most popular console in brazil because of easier piracy.

>>384753297
FF7 was returned to store because a lot of people were probably told it was the must have title of the system, later to find out that its an rpg and that type of game doesn't suit their tastes

and yes, normies actually don't fucking read anything, they often just do as they are told, especially back in the day with the boundry pushing consoles

I mean think about it, FF7 was returned to store more than FF8, and everyone considers FF8 to be literal dog shit in disc format, while most people consider FF7 to be one of the stronger titles in the series, even when taking its flaws into consideration

>>384752675
The Dreamcast never had a chance with the PS2's imminent release.

>>384753893
UMA

>>384754002
DELICIA

PS1 crushed the N64

PS2 pulverized the GC

PS3 outlived both Wii and Wii U

Switch doesn't have a chance against PS4

>>384754059
>PS3 outlived
>outlived
I like how you changed the goal post with this one

>>384753893
>>384752948
Spain here.
Same. The PSP and Wii also sold because piracy.

>>384750790
Here's a fun activity.
The console came out in 1995 (Dec of 94 in Japan). Name a launch window title for the original Playstation.

remember, FF7 came out in 1997, two years later

>>384754226
Don't worry, I'm sure Nintendo will rise again kiddo :)

>>384754059
I agree but you can't ignore that wii beat ps3 while it was alive

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>>384754273
Bitch, this game was my jam.

>>384754242
The DS was popular too, I had a DS with like a hundred games on an R4 card it was awesome.

>>384754376
Yeah

Those casuals, soccer moms bought lots of Wii

>>384754273
Ridge Racer & Ace Combat were two great launch titles.

>>384753585
how is that a fact to you?
Was it due to being smaller, or because it was more like the snes control with to extra buttons before the dualshock? The 64 controller looked wonky, but it functioned as intended.

>>384754635
Poors bought lots of PS1 and PS2. So I guess that doesn't make it count.

>>384754756
Its because the analog on the 64 fucking sucked.

>>384754635
>Those casuals, soccer moms bought lots of Wii

The also bought a lot of Playstations so they can play Buzz and SingStar but it's okay when Sony does it, right?

>>384752948
ANDALE BURRITO TACO

>>384754803
worked fine. welp, i have sated my curiosity.

>>384754803
N64's stick has fewer deadzones than Dualshock, so no, objectively it is a more accurate better stick. Just the durability which sucks.

>>384754242
LOBEZNO
VITAL

>>384754990
>Just the durability which sucks.
Exactly. It was the shits.

>>384750790
>How come this console utterly BTFO the N64?
CDs were a very very cheap medium and the PS1 had more and more of the dev support people wanted

When it comes to winning over Japan with a console it needs to have Squaresoft or they're completely out, this is just one example

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>>384754994
stop

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>>384755274
Fine

tomb raider, resident evil, final fantasy. The PS1 had it all while the N64 only had the same old Nintendo games and a really small library of games.

>>384750790
more games at cheaper prices, there was a new PS4 game at $40 ($20 cheaper than the average N64 game) every week but months could pass without a N64 release and even longer for a good one.

also all multiplat games came out on PS1 weeks ahead of the N64 version,

>>384752479
thats probably true
I guess I defend n64 just cause it has a flashcart and its not as easy to pirate games on ps1

Emulation is much better though. I recently lost all my ps1 roms by accident.

It was better.

Name TEN PS1 GAMES

>>384753895
>I mean think about it, FF7 was returned to store more than FF8, and everyone considers FF8 to be literal dog shit in disc format, while most people consider FF7 to be one of the stronger titles in the series, even when taking its flaws into consideration

they are both shit.

>>384758541
Whats a good rpg from the ps1 era?

>>384758262
Colony Wars 1, 2, and 3
G-Police 1 and 2
Blood Omen
Soul Reaver
Einhander
Twisted Metal
Disruptor

cheap dvd player

>>384758664
That was the PS2, though the PS2 was also the best console of its generation, for the same reasons that the PS1 was the best.

>>384758262
Alundra
Einhander
Brave Fencer Musashi
SotN
Koudelka
Valkyrie Profile
FFT
MvC
Lunar Eternal Blue
Pepsiman

>>384758760
>Pepsiman
I think you mean PEPSIMAAAAAAN!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VppRYydKbTs&list=PLXRkwGvXTai6cEE4aJlAt1JCxCOzJkBz3

>>384750790
Sony discovered "gamers" are more interested in watching cinematic FMV than playing games with good gameplay.

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>>384750790
graphics baby

>>384750790
Because it did what Nintendon't.

>>384751096
>adults bought the consoles for themselves
thats how i got a ps1 and an original xbox, it was great

>PS1 fans are still THIS mad they didn't get the best games of the generation
ten billion 6-7/10 titles I could mostly play on PC aren't going to make up for missing out on Nintendo in the 5th gen

>>384753297
>>384753895
Final Fantasy VII was returned to stores so much in the U.S. because Squaresoft & Sony had marketed the game by playing-up the CG cutscenes and in-game cutscenes. A lot of people bought the game on that alone thinking it looked cool, discovered it had too many words, and promptly returned it.

I shit you not on that. The most common reason for FFVII being returned was that there was too much reading.

>>384758646
Breath of Fire III & IV
Chrono Trigger & Cross
Dragon Warrior VII
Final Fantasy (Series)
Grandia
Granstream Saga
Koudelka
Legend of Dragoon
Legend of Legaia
Legend of Mana
Lunar
Lunar 2
Persona
Persona 2
Rhapsody
Star Ocean: The Second Story
Suikoden I & II
Tales of Destiny
Tales of Destiny II/Eternia
Thousand Arms
Threads of Fate
Vagrant Story
Valkyrie Profile
Wild ARMs I & II
Xenogears

That's not going into the Adventure genre (like Alundra) or the Tactics games (FFT, Tactics Ogre, etc.).

>>384758758
Hardware-wise, the PS2 was the worst. It just had better marketing, used DVDs, and wasn't American-made (a huge turn-off for the East, of course). With that came content.

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>>384759654
>Hardware-wise, the PS2 was the worst
close but no cigar friendo

>>384750790
It had games, and the games it had were cheaper too. Also developing games for it was easier and you weren't size constrained since it used CDs. And finally Sony would allow low print runs, while Nintendo required you to do very large print runs and pay everything up front.
Sony only charged $5 licensing fee per game, and the cost to produce a CD back then was still relatively cheap.
In contrast, N64 used carts that you had to buy from Nintendo, and they were much, much more expensive than CDs.
Low licensing price plus low CD cost led to the Greatest Hits being released which led budget conscious gamers and younger kids buy and try a bunch of different types of games.

So it pretty much won over developers and those developers won over gamers and that was a positive feedback loop that launched them to the top of that gen.

>>384759970

The PS2 was not worse than the GC but those figures are typical Sony inflated bullshit. So are the xbox ones, though not to the same degree. The GC are a little closer to accurate. It's still the least powerful but the gap was nowhere near that wide.

>>384759970
lolno
http://wars.locopuyo.com/cwsystemspecsold.php

>>384760756
>those figures are typical Sony inflated bullshit
lol no its simple maths

ps2 - 147mhz x 8 texture units = 1176 mtexel/s
gcn - 162mhz x 4 texture units = 648 mtexel/s
xbox - 233mhz x 8 texture units = 1864 mtexel/s

>>384761053

If only it were so simple. Those are theoretical figures, they mean little in the real world.

They are why you got bullshit claims like "The PS2 can render Toy Story in realtime." when we all know it was nowhere near capable of that.

Xbox>Gamecube>>PS2>Powergap>Dreamcast in terms of power

>>384761265
>Those are theoretical figures
yeah m8 having half the physical texture unit hardware of ps2 and xbox is "theoretical"

>>384761369
>I buy whatever has the highest MHz, that must be the most powerful

You're an idiot.

Different things can take a different numbers of cycles on different hardware.

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>>384759970
>He uses GFLOPS as a measure of performance

>>384759157
>emulated at 5 times the original resolution with texture filtering, anti aliasing and non affine texture mapping.

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>>384750790
Nintendo, headed by Hiroshi Yamauchi, assumed he and his company could continue abusing developers by using a inferior catridge format still that only Nintendo themselves sold. Also, that not only was more expensive than CD's, but held less information and held no advantage aside load times.

3rd parties are extremely important to your platforms relevance, it brings in sales, and keeps interest because of the variety of titles available to the consumers. Anyone who disagrees is has forcefully convinced themselves, out of some sort of stockholm syndrome-like effect, that its not important.

No it doesn't matter if its dudebro shit either you drones, before you try your tried and true damage control, it's still important. There's many many many more titles out there that certain platforms do not see because of payoffs for exclusivity, weak hardware, storage limitations etc. They're more important than you'll ever give credit for.

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>>384750790
Putting the library aside for a moment it was obviously piracy and tapping the market that traditionally wouldn't buy any consoles because games were expensive, primarily South America and Eastern Europe territories.

>>384761775
>
How does filtering make textures detailed in hi-res?

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>>384753668
DAMAGE CONTROL

>>384750790
>sega fucked up
>nintendo pissed off all the third parties
>3D games was a relatively new concept at the time
>ps1 just kept getting so many goddamn great games
>it was cheaper

>>384761593
>Different things can take a different numbers of cycles on different hardware.
the texture units on all three consoles generate 1 bilinear filtered texel per cycle as was standard of hardware in that era

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>>384751096
The controller wasn't retarded.
holy fuck that just took me back, I'll never forget my first impressions kek'd

>>384761992
Texture filtering involves sampling the source texture 4 times more than non-filtered. A filtered texture literally represents 4 times more data in terms of generating it than non-filtered. Hence a filtered texture looks higher-res than an non-filtered one (except in very special cases).

>>384761817
>3rd parties are extremely important to your platforms relevance, it brings in sales, and keeps interest because of the variety of titles available to the consumers. Anyone who disagrees is has forcefully convinced themselves, out of some sort of stockholm syndrome-like effect, that its not important.

It's because such people's primary interest is in Nintendo first party titles and everything else pales in comparison. These people will lead to high sales of such games, but as has been Nintendo's problem since pretty much N64 third parties are left in the gutter to fight over meager sales. If you're not buying a Nintendo console for Nintendo games you're making a mistake.

>>384751295
>It had quantity over quality and even a lot of quality to match n64.

I would go a step further and say PS1 had both quality and quantity, but just like with N64 it depended heavily on what you enjoyed. If JRPGs were your thing PS1 won, same with platformers on N64.

>>384761817
This.

They pretty much stopped talking to square because they made a playstation game, and square went

>Uh, alright, guess we'll just make more playstation games, then.

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>>384762308
I mean, you're right. I hate that you're right but you're right. I honest to god wish that Nintendo would pull their heads out of their ass regarding hardware and wanting to be in this nonexistant position of "WE'RE NOT COMPETING CUZ WE SAY SOOO".

It's utterly and entirely preposterous, of course you're competing. You don't get the say so, the consumer does. I'm not saying that Nintendo needs to have the strongest hardware, but they definitely and inarguably needs to at least be to minimum standards for developers to work your hardware and produce working games for it that aren't dumbed down.

despite what Nintendo thinks graphics and the amount of shit your platform can put on screen matters heavily, because its that power that developers draw from to create their games.

>>384752015
But it sold the most consoles in NA.

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>>384762308
>If you're not buying a Nintendo console for Nintendo games you're making a mistake.
That wasn't the case in the NES and SNES days, the "third parties can't compete with first party games on a Nintendo platform" is a fucking meme to justify not developing for the GameCube.

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>>384762390
I sincerely believe Microsoft had a nice conference. I mean honestly it surprised me they actually showed some neat stuff.

>mfw we're in bizarro world where Microsoft actually makes me want something

>>384753668
take your meds, you're sperging out again.

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>>384762628
The GameCube was above the PS2 and the DreamCast, just slightly below the Xbox in power and the third parties (except Capcom and sometimes Activision) didn't support it because "lol purple lunch box xD".

That fucking thing almost killed them, had the GBA and Pokémon not been there.

>>384762390
>6

>>384762793
It's a meme alright, and it's not a coincidence they think it started during the time when devs were really looking at the playstation and ignoring the 64.

>>384750790
came out earlier and had a marketing budget that was 25times bigger than that of the N64

>>384762921
>just slightly below the Xbox in power
LMAO

>>384762276
You are an idiot. The extra data it generates is ASSUMED based on existing data. It doesn't make the texture more detailed (more pixels != detailed), because it's interpolation. Make a texture1 which is original and make a texture2 which is 0.5x the size of texture1. Scale texture2 to the size of texture1. See that it's less detailed, whatever algorithm is chosen, because it guesses values of extra pixels based on a fraction of original information.

>>384762921
They also gimped the fuck out of it on formatting, though, which kinda sucked when you had a tad more power but took little retarded discs with less than a third the capacity of the standard discs their competitors used.

>>384759136
The PS1 and PS2 had the most diverse games faggot.

>>384762921
The power gap with the xbox and ps2 wasn't even close to the gaps that anon is talking about now, and the gamecube still got decent third party support.

>>384752583
What is the total size of all PS1 games combined?

>>384763030
Am I wrong? No, I'm not. The GameCube was the middleman in power, between the PS2 and the Xbox. It was also way easier to code for the GameCube than for the PS2, but the PS2 sold like crazy thanks to the DVD function, hyped dudebros for GTAIII and third world countries such as mine who couldnt wait to get burned discs like they did with the PS1.

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>>384762921
Yeah, but those things are all Nintendo's fault. You cant forget that gamecube suffered because of Yamauchi and CO's bad decisions with N64 that severely hurt 3rd party representation.

Then they made the clusterfuck mistake of fucking assuming they're still king shit in the industry, and went with yet another shitty storage format (mini discs) that ONCE AGAIN, had inferior storage, and ONCE AGAIN could /only/ be bought from Nintendo.

I mean, for what it's worth, the gamecube had a pretty decent 3rd party library, but it was fucking crippled by the disc for what they could get otherwise had they not handicapped themselves. The image of the guy riding a bike and spoking himself with a stick comes to mind.

>>384763030
It's not wrong. What Xbox had in processor power over the gamecube, gamecube had over the xbox in its graphics chip. Gecko was a beastly little thing for the time. There was quite a few things it could do (like the water transparency effects in phantasy star online) that had to be removed from the Xbox version because it simply COULD NOT render it without severe lag.

>>384763209
gamecube and ps2, I meant. Still works out the same that way, though.

>>384763146
Add more discs? The Resident Evil games did that, so did MGS:TS

>>384763209
Decent, but not good enough.

>>384763338
more specialized discs that 3 of still doesn't equal one disc on another system doesn't fix the problem. It just highlights it.

>>384763431
And yet no one complained when FFXIII on 360 was multiple discs.

>>384763060
>It doesn't make the texture more detailed (more pixels != detailed), because it's interpolation
When no filtering is used, texels are either inherently lost during the rescaling process (during the remapping of texel->pixel some texels aren't converted) or the recomposition of the texture is altered (during the remapping of texel->pixel some of the texels are egregiously repeated)

Filtering uses interpolation to smooth over the data loss by taking four samples from the surrounding texel that would either be lost or repeated and putting that data into the final drawing. Hence, filtering is less "lossy" than non-filtering.

>Make a texture1 which is original and make a texture2 which is 0.5x the size of texture1. Scale texture2 to the size of texture1. See that it's less detailed, whatever algorithm is chosen, because it guesses values of extra pixels based on a fraction of original information.
This is a strawman argument because it involves losing half of the data from the get-go. I'm talking filtering vs non-filtering of the exact same texture.

>>384761817
>Nintendo, headed by Hiroshi Yamauchi, assumed he and his company could continue abusing developers by using a inferior catridge format still that only Nintendo themselves sold. Also, that not only was more expensive than CD's, but held less information and held no advantage aside load times.
>3rd parties are extremely important to your platforms relevance, it brings in sales, and keeps interest because of the variety of titles available to the consumers. Anyone who disagrees is has forcefully convinced themselves, out of some sort of stockholm syndrome-like effect, that its not important.
And then there's the fact that the PS1 never would have existed had Nintendo not decided to completely fuck Sony in the ass by pulling out of their deal at the last minute (the PS1 was originally a CD-ROM expansion for the SNES), and then trying to sue Sony when they decided to take what they had and go forward on their own. Honestly, Nintendo *deserved* to have the PS1 beat the shit out of the N64 for being such a bunch of dicks.

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>>384750790
The PS1 and PS2 are proof that Nintendo could make a Shitty PC like everyone else and Sony would still sell more.

And the end of the day, a library has to sell a system, and while the N64 had an okay library, and the NGC had a pretty good library, the PlayStation 1 and 2 had just way more awesome games.

>>384763519
People did complain.

You are making an effort to not look at this from a development/production perspective.

You can make your game real easy across 2/3 platforms that use the same format standard. If you want to take that game to the third you have to either

a) compress it down, potentially significantly

b) print the damn thing on 2-3 discs and maybe still compress it down.

Both of those suck, and just make it a bit of a pain.

Add that that same platform doesn't offer the promotional support the others do and just kinda treats third party devs like crap/competition and it just helps sell you on not supporting the platform much.

>>384763249
>The GameCube was the middleman in power, between the PS2 and the Xbox
gamecube was closer to PS2 than to xbox argubably

>>384763274
>gamecube had over the xbox in its graphics chip
HAHA no it didn't

-gamecube's gpu had HALF the texture units of xbox's gpu
-gamecube's gpu had neither programmable vertex or pixel shaders while xbox's gpu had both
-gamecube's gpu had a way smaller pixel output rate

>Gecko was a beastly little thing for the time
gecko wasn't even the gpu you stupid fuck, the gpu was called flipper

and no, gamecube's gpu flipper was outdated even on release in 2001, it would have been a nice chip in 2000 though

>There was quite a few things it could do (like the water transparency effects in phantasy star online) that had to be removed from the Xbox version because it simply COULD NOT render it without severe lag.
bullshit

>>384763623
To be fair, the contract with Sony would've made Nintendi third party IN THEIR OWN CONSOLE, it was Yamauchi who decided to spite Sony instead of review the contract once more.

I was a big nintendo fan going into the genre and still consider SNES one of the best consoles of all time, but the n64 was pretty disappointing, the gamecube was mid tier and then they lost my interest with the wii. PS1 still probably has like 4 or 5 of my top 10 games, the library is just phenomenal, I'm playing BoF4 as I type this.

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I'll just leave this here...

>>384752015
>modchip everything
>that's why the attach rate is higher
do you know what those words mean?
if you're going to cite economics, a more believable argument is that sony was very aggressive with its greatest hits program which would reduce the price of most bestsellers to $20 after a year. this brought in people like myself who would have passed on a console entirely. even though the hardware was dogshit, the low prices for everything made it easy to pick up on the side without having to think about it
sony understood the mechanics of the steam sale before steam existed

>>384762190
How were you supposed to hold that thing anyway?

>>384762810
Good thing I have a PC.

>>384762110

Meaningless when you can't keep it fed.

>>384764190
ps2 and xbox have a higher chance of keeping their gpus fed considering their vertex rate is higher and their memory bandwidth is faster

>>384750790
Makes me wish Sony and Nintendo had worked together after all
>OoT, MM, Banjo Kazooie, Bomberman 64 and Mario 64 with CD-quality music and no shitty N64 control stick
The loadtimes would probably be shit but It'd be worth it.

>>384764024
I still think Saturn's problem was focus - very few in the west actually cared about perfect arcade ports by that point. It was a great console that peddled goods without wide appeal.

>>384763525
You are either trolling or legit retarded, anon, I am sorry. All you had to know without repeating what I have said and using a strawman is that the game (Chrono Cross) uses higher-than-normal textures in size for PS1 which runs like at 240p, which is why it looks so good emulated, filtering or "no" filtering (nearest), but is wasted on 240p. Had it been small textures, no filtering would have helped it to look as good, because interpolation.

>>384752583
no they don't
>>384763231
around 2 TB

>>384764303

No, PS2 was bad at it. Latency issues. That's why textures tended to be so ass on PS2.

>>384764670
What's the biggest hard drive that you can put into the PS4/plug in as an external?

>>384764506
Filtering removes aliasing from textures at almost any resolution. Less aliasing is associated with a higher resolution. That's how supersampling works, for example.

>>384764847
I believe the PS4 uses laptop hard drives, so 4 TB

>>384764915
Well technically you can put all the PS1 games on a PS4 hard drive then

>>384764730
textures were ass in many PS2 games cause it took developers a long time to work out how to do texture compression

gamecube wasn't only fischer price my first console, but for programmers it was fischer price my first development system

ps2 being an advanced system required advanced programmers

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>>384751763
Anon, long time owner of an cherished N64 here, yes it did. Come on, we know everyone bought the PS instead. Doesn't make the N64 any less great, but we must be objective about history.

>>384752015
>blame poors
>blame piracy

Hmm... Funny how this absolutley applies to the dreamcast as easy to pirate and yet..... It fucking failed. Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat? How can this be eh?

>>384752789
Ok so why did the dreamcast fail so hard. You could pirate that like nobodys business.

>>384765176
Because Dreamcast hardware was expensive as fuck anywhere but USA

>>384750790
piracy

>>384763519
>And yet no one complained when FFXIII on 360 was multiple discs.

Nigger, everybody complained.

>>384764090
Some countries didnt respect Sony's best seller line. Not only that, burnt discs were still cheaper to buy at flea markets (3 dollars over 20)

>>384765293
So, Piracy made the PS1 the king but somehow also sank the Dreamcast, totally makes sense.

Between the PS1 and PS2 there is somewhere over 3000 games. With tons of these games being good. I actually want to soft mod both consoles. There is just so much to enjoy from both of these consoles that depending on your taste in gaming you don't ever need to play any other consoles ever again. N64 has some great games but you will run out eventually.

>>384765416
The circumstances were extremely different for the two consoles.

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N64 has pic related.
Enough said.

>>384765176
Also to add to this >>384765269

You have to remember that Sony was an aspiration brand for many poorer countries. Why do you think that Russians love to wear Nike tracksuits so much? Because Nike was associated with American wealth, much in the same way Sony was associated with Japanese wealth. Obviously now it looks like a bit of a joke, but in the 90s these brands were a big fucking deal.

Sega didn't nearly have such a brand-name pull, it was just a fucking gaming company, just like Nintendo.

>>384765416
>but somehow also sank the Dreamcast
No it didn't.

>>384765052
>only one LoZ, no BK/T, Bombermans, DK racing, Shadow of the Empire, Conker, Paper Mario, yoshi island, or Smash.

>>384765001

The PS2 had no hardware support for compressed textures. Even if you did decompress on the fly you were still pushing full size textures through the memory bus. Latency up the ass.

Only a fucking moron thinks hardware that is difficult to use must be good. It could just be a shit design and that was what the PS2 was, hardware riddled with flaws. PS1 was shit too and so was the PS3, Sony are fucking terrible at hardware.

>>384765001
>ps2 being an advanced system required advanced programmers
This was literally Hiroshi Yamauchi's logic when he made the N64 hard to program for in-purpose "to avoid shovelware".

>>384752913
Why disn't the same apply for the 16-bit bandwagon then? People disn't ALL go out and get Genesis/Mega drive despite the early jump Sega took to 16-bit

>>384752925
Just really haers home just how relevant the PlayStation was as a console.

>>384765362
and? companies don't make any money from third world flea market pirates
short version: you don't count for anything, playstation doesn't care if you live or die

>>384765661
Still not as bad as Nintendo

>>384753895
Source? Or "you just know anon" because if we are gonna get anecdotal the only two brothers i knew who played RPGs finished VII, VIII and IX

>>384753924
>but Sony

Dreamcast had a good year or two to make its playerbase.

>>384765998
>and?
And that pushed PS hardware sales in territories SEGA and Nintendo didnt had any stable footing on, which caused Sony to keep producing the console well after its generation ended.

>>384766132
And thanks to the mismanagement of the Saturn, they never had a chance to do that.

>>384765269
No it wasn't. In the UK, it was barely £200 from what I can remember.

>>384766031

GC did support compressed textures, the same industry standard that xbox and PC use. Nintendo also explicitly rejected the type of memory the PS2 used as it would be a "bottleneck" for a console.

Let me guess, that makes it "too easy" and therefore shit?

The GC is not without it's issues but the idea that the PS2 was a flawless masterpiece as long as you were an "advanced programmer" is utter crap.

>>384766439
>this buttblasted
Nintendo couldn't make a decent system to save their life.

>>384754273
I loved Rayman and battle arena toshiden. The gameboy version was boss too.

>>384754779
Source? The only console i remember being dirt poor cheap during the PS2 era was the Gamecube

>>384766496

Yeah, the "buttblasted" one is the one simply listing facts about the consoles, not the one spouting crap like
>gamecube wasn't only fischer price my first console, but for programmers it was fischer price my first development system
>ps2 being an advanced system required advanced programmers
in order to desperately defend their company of choice.

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>>384752015
This so much, here in Argentina consoles were already sold mod chipped out of the box on big electronics stores. Copied games were sold everywhere as if they were legit.

>>384758262
Nigga name 10 N64 and saturn games

But ok:
>Resident evil 2
>FF VII
>Abes Oddysee
>Time Crisis
>Spyro the dragon
>Crash bandicoot
>Rayman
>medievil
>Tekken 2
>Grandia


there. 10. And i didn't even OTHER include games from the SAME franchises. Can you do that for N64 or Saturn?

>>384761964
>obviously piracy

Then why did king pirate dreamcast fail so hard bru?

>>384765416
Kek this. There is a new retroactive excuse every week

>>384765497
Holy shit kid fuck off. Yeah, the circumstance was EVERYONE wanted PlayStation. Simple as. Every slur thrown at the thing can be applied to many other consoles just like this piracy/dreamcast one, but the second someone throws it out there the best you got is "n-no that was different!!" Jesus fuck my man. I now know that if the Gamecube DID have a DVD player you lot would STILL use at a reason people bought the PS2. The retroactive goal post moving in these threads are hilarious. Whats next? Sony lined their consoles with bags of coke? They sent round a free hooker?

>>384766410
This

>>384764140
When I first used an n64 on a demo unit had no idea how to hold that thing. I tried to hold all 3 prongs at once and it was really painful for my child hands. I had my right hand stretched across 2 of the handles

>>384764140
>>384767989
The best explanation I've found is that you're supposed to hold the right handle with your right hand, and switch between the middle and left handle with your left hand depending on what game you're playing and whether the game uses the D-pad or the analog stick. Apparently the benefits of being able to use the D-pad and analog stick at the same time didn't occur to Nintendo.

>>384753297
>>384759509
>>384753895

WOAH HEY GUYS LOOK AT THESE GRAPHICS
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ru9zzFEdGWk

How was this legal?

The PS1 graphics improved over time, while the N64 had the same graphics throughout it's life.

>>384753104
PS1 was the console that first brought in dudebros, though.

PS1 had a lot games catered for everyone. Also had piracy.

You have Gran Turismo and NFS games(also on PC but not other consoles) there was nothing like them on Wahoo machine

You had Tekken 2-3 best Fighthing game sellers both in Arcade and Console.

Tekken 3 sold 9 Million copies like it was FUCKIN HUGE

also you had Mortal Kombat ports, Street Fighters,KOF and other games.

all those games sold incredibly.
even basic ass MK Trilogy sold 3 Million WW.

Fighting games and Racing games were huge back then.

Then you had sports games which had definitive editions.

ISS/PES/Winning Eleven and crappy FIFA games.
Winning Eleven was huge thing in europe and other third world countries.

then you had good looking child platformer games like Crash was sensation. Spyro was really big. also bunch of other games Croc,That medivevil fox game,medevil itself.

Then you had RPG games like tons of them not my genre but you had them.

You had a lot of licenced games solds a lot like Spider-Man,Toy Story games etc.

it basically had every genre it was cheap to produce cheap games cheap to make games cheap cd's.

while on nintendo it had weird controllers,weird accessories. You just bought what nintendo told you to like buy Goldeneye buy Mario wahoo

other games miserably failed on N64.
third party games were trash like MKTrilogy losing features etc

it had limited appeal no good racing game no good tps game no good Fighting game(smash doesnt appeal to everyone )

it almost looked baby console with everything cartoony , while PS1 had Tekken 3 edge graphics metal music etc

>>384752913
While FF7 was big it wasnt only thing saved playstation

FF7 sold 9.5 million
Tekken 3 also sold 9 million
Crash Bandioot games sold 8 million each
MGS 1 sold 7 million
GT 1 sold 11 million
GT2 9.5 million
Winning Eleven/ISS sold a lot

it was diverse of genre/games made it big. You are delusional if FF7 alone saved platform not everyone likes RPG games

>>384765661
>The PS2 had no hardware support for compressed textures
Sort of true, but Emotion Engine with its vector processors can hardware accelerate vector quantization (VQ) texture compression

>Even if you did decompress on the fly you were still pushing full size textures through the memory bus
Good thing PS2 has that ridiculously fast 48 GB/s VRAM huh?

>Latency up the ass.
GPUs don't give a fuck about latency, and that's only main RAM. PS2's VRAM was low-latency.

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>>384770165
>while the N64 had the same graphics throughout it's life.
Every N64 game looked like Conker even from the start?

>>384752675
Saturn was failed so hard that Dreamcast was always DOA

>>384752015
And it works. PS1 was still sold like hotcakes even after PS2.

>>384761775
>And still can't remove the Z-fighting

>>384772110
it's even worse than z-fighting, for z-fighting you need to have a z-buffer

it's outright polygon fighting

>>384772232
gotta love that "powerful" PS1 hardware
so powerful it doesn't have an FPU, Z-buffer or perspective correction

>>384771583

The problem was shifting shit from RAM to VRAM, something you would find yourself doing a lot given the limited VRAM. The RAM was a big bottleneck for the PS2.

If it makes the Sony fanboys feel any better Nintendo made almost the exact same mistake with the N64 that Sony made with the PS2 in regards to memory. Nintendo did actually learn from this and made sure not to do it again with the GC, it's memory setup was pretty decent but it wasn't cheap.

>>384772749
>The problem was shifting shit from RAM to VRAM, something you would find yourself doing a lot given the limited VRAM.
Was it a common issue for the components in the CPU to fight over the bandwidth on the main bus?

>>384772951
*components in the PS2. I'm thinking the CPU and DMA from RAM to VRAM mainly.

>>384771690
Conker had bad graphics.

>>384773085
said nobody ever

>>384753372
Took half the thread before someone mentioned the true reason. Price.

>>384772749
>The problem was shifting shit from RAM to VRAM
PS2's main RAM was still faster than GameCube's main RAM.

GameCube arguably had a bigger problem with shifting memory as its main RAM was also smaller than PS2, so a lot of data had to be stored inside of its fairly large ARAM. The problem was that the ARAM was ridiculously slow (slower than...PS1 RAM slow) and you couldn't texture out of it or anything. If you wanted to actually use that data you had to copy it from ARAM to main RAM. PS2's transfer issues were utterly benign compared to that.

N64's memory issue was that it had absolutely no VRAM whatsoever, not even a dedicated VRAM channel. The whole console was strung on a single memory bus. Totally different issue.

>>384765509
It all started with that, fucking cover based third person shite.
Winback and Kill.Switch were good games though, it's the oversaturation getting the vitriol.

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One of the most disappointing things about these threads where /v/ gets technical is that nobody ever talks about the DS.

I'm no hardware expert but the guts of this thing really seem interesting. A bizarre memory layout, two CPUs (one of which is almost completely idle), 3 different graphics engines (which stream straight to the displays, no framebuffer in most cases), a weird fixed polygon buffer like the sprite limits of old.
It seems really funky, but I have no idea how capable it really is. Could it achieve anything like the graphics of the PS1, Saturn or N64?

>>384773870
I don't know too much about DS but I imagine it is quite similar to Saturn in terms of having seperate 2D and 3D acceleration. I doubt it could match PS1 or N64 though. Could come close though no doubt.

>>384753585

>playing 3D games with a fucking d-pad

confirmed never to have played the N64, faggot

>>384773870
>Could it achieve anything like the graphics of the PS1, Saturn or N64?

The PS1 could reasonably do 90,000 lit, shaded, and textured polygons per second or 3000 polys per frame for a 30FPS game. Some games can go up 4000-5000 polys per frame (again if doing 30FPS).

The NDS has a hard limit of 2048 polys per frame.

>>384774650
>Some games can go up 4000-5000 polys per frame (again if doing 30FPS).
Don't know of any games which do. Crash was about 3000 polys per second.

>>384774650
>2048 polys per frame.
At 60fps, if the CPU can keep up.

>>384774757
I don't, I'm just making a very liberal guestimate to account for some oddball PS1 game.

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so this....is the power....of sony....

>>384774939
>remembering these details
>being this butthurt

fucking lol

>>384765176
Sega itself decided to kill the Dreamcast, it could have soldiered on until the next generation easily if they cared and thought that it was a good business decision but they got cold feet because of the PS2's launch (ended up already outselling it late 2001) and the gamecube and the xbox were already announced.

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>33 MHz CPU
>2 MB RAM Memory
>16 bit sound chip

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9HMoMRAPico

>>384775160
shame it has the same cancerous wobbly graphics as every other PS1 game

>>384766243
put up a source for that or shut the fuck up retard

>>384759157
game?

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>>384750790
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j-Py0DUvG7s

>tfw we can never go back to the good ol' days

>>384750790
>How come this console utterly BTFO the N64?
A lot of reasons, although probably the biggest one was that Nintendo was such a massive dick to every third party developer in the NES/SNES years that they were more than happy to abandon the N64 for the PS1. That, and N64 cartridges needed to be purchased from Nintendo, while developers could buy any cheap CDs to print games for the PS1.

>>384775524
It's not quite so bad in MGS because of the top-down perspective. The wobbling only gets bad at shallow angles.

>>384775160
>16MHz CPU
>~300KB RAM
>No sound chip
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G27pO38Z3l0

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>>384750790
>238 replies
>one (1) post criticizing the disgusting loading times on this piece of shit

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>>384776620
The question was why the PS1 beat the N64, not the faults that the PS1 had which the N64 didn't. Pretty much everyone who actually owned a PS1 remembers the sometimes lengthy loading screens all over the place.

>>384750790
Disc based media

Literally the only reason

>>384750790
Using CDs over carts meant game developers no longer had to be dependent on Sega or (at that point) Nintendo to physically manufacture games with ridiculous lead in times and unresponsive to demand. Sony's lack relative first party games meant third parties felt they weren't being unfairly competed against. Undid restrictive practices against third party developers from the previous generations.

Good third party relations
Marketing
Not having cartridges