morrowind>daggerfall>arena>oblivion >Skyrim

does anyone actually enjoy Elder Scrolls' lore?

>>384739437
Autists who think Michael Kirkbride is still employed by Bethesda and any of the stuff he writes post-2006 is actually relevant to their series.

Daggerfall is awful, I'm sorry. It's an eternity of landscape with nothing on it and the dungeons are all so fuck huge they're damn near impossible and all look the same.

>>384739315
>Arena
>anything but the weakest in the series

Way to show everyone that you never played it sweetie.

>>384739437
People with no life like me

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>>384739315
Skyrim > anything else mentioned in this thread

>>384740459

Some of the other games are better in one or two aspects, but overall Skyrim is definitely the best ES game for simply being the least broken and most balanced.

>>384741131
Balancing is shit in all of the elder scrolls games (mods can fix it though), even in Skyrim you can just level any of the crafting skills and the game is immediately broken, while some skills like destruction don't scale the damage meaning it is pretty much objectively inferior to using a normal weapon, the balancing could use a lot of improvement.

>>384741440

Most balanced does not mean imperfect. Overall it's much more balanced than the other games that are all over the place pretty much on every level.

>>384741980

Or "perfect" I mean to say.

Oblivion>Skywind>Morrowrim

>>384739610
>not enjoying the real life sense of dread from the claustrophobic dungeons

>>384739315
daggerfall is shit

>>384739315
>fedorafall
fuck I'm unhappy I lived to see this meme take hold

>>384742330

I got no sense of dread from them. They were just insanely huge mazes with a map that was nearly impossible to follow.

>>384742582
Too bad.

There's an Unity port that looks pretty good, with a functioning auto map.

>>384739315
Oblivion has shit scaling, but if you manage to build around it it's definitely better than Arena.

>>384742795

And I look forward to that and the potential of modders actually making the game fun. As it is now, it's not a good game.

ACTION

Skyrim > Oblivion > Morowind > DF/Arena

Scaling is shit in Oblivion but talking pure combat it still comes out on top of Morrowind as dicerolls are shit in real time gameplay.

ADVENTURE

Morrowind > Skyrim > Oblivion > DF > Arena

This one I'm on the fence for, Skyrim and Oblivion really are as bad as each other but Skyrims world feels more immersive than Cyrodiil. Oblivion does have better quests.

RPG

Daggerfall > Arena > Morrowind > Oblivion > Skyrim

Daggerfall is the only instance where they improved upon the latter game. Every release after DF has taken away from the RPG aspect.

>>384743704
Unironically this.
And the best game overall is Morrowind

>>384739315
Skyrim > Morrowind > Oblivion

Those other two don't count.

>>384739315
>People actually trying to meme daggerfall and arena into being good

Pathetic.

>>384741440
Except you can't spam level crafting.

>clear Embershard for some ore and ingots
>smelt them
>make a few daggers
>sell daggers for less than the price of ore
>buy a few ore
>make a couple of daggers
>can't afford new ore

>>384739315

you sound like someone trying to get streetcred in elder scrolls

the list is obvious

morrow
obliv
sky
dag
arena

dag maybe above sky

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>>384739315

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Skyrim = Oblivion = Morrowind

>>384744810
>Craft lots of stuff
>Enchant stuff
>Sell enchanted stuff
>Buy resources
>Repeat
Its a shitty system anyway that encourages grind.

>>384739315
Don't pretend you played Daggerfall or Arena morrowbaby.

>>384745656
Except you're operating at a loss.

>craft lots of stuff
>enchant it
>cost of new raw materials and filled soul gems exceed value of sales

>>384746171
Not if you do it right, enchant with banish daedra or paralyse and the weapons sell for more than the merchants can handle.

>>384739437
>does anyone actually enjoy Elder Scrolls' lore?

Yes, when it's not tapping into the basic bitch generic fantasy style.

in terms of OST, arena > rest of the series
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UbilPF1b3U4

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>monk/bard is a viable class
>more quests
>much, much better world building
>a lot more armor/equipment slots
>a lot more weapon types
>real 3D
>levitation
>slowfall
>mark & recall
>Intervention
No competition, morrowind was the peak of the series.

>>384747017
Those enchants don't appear until level 22+. And even then, you'd need like 10k gold to buy one from the vendor.

>>384747540

Daggerfall was also real 3d, it also had some really neat music

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-PenDYXVggQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fZ97I2p4_YY

I like Arena desu senpai

>>384739581
Kirkbride played an active role in the writing of Skyrim, and many of the ESO writers pay homage to his writings.

Sermon 37 from ESO: Morrowind even references c0da.

morrowwind sucks

elder scrolls sucks

>>384739315
Shit>morrowind>daggerfall>arena>oblivion>Skyrim

>>384749557
this

openworld games suck

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>>384739315
But you forgot about MODS!

>>384749771
http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/20209/?

Before I google searched. I thought it was a screen of someone's shitty waifu, but holy shit this is an actual mod.

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>>384739315
Daggerfall>all

>>384749695
this

video games suck

>>384749695
Shit scaling with the PC sucks.

>>384739581
I agree with you 100%, anon.

I fucking hate it when people start """educating""" me about MK lore whenever I want to talk about some actual real shit. Can't fucking talk about what's actually there and come up with our own opinions without some sperg yammering about what MK said and then proceeding to meme about what is essentially fanfiction. Not to mention that I just plain hate MK and think he's an asshole.

>>384748362
Throwing you a bone, it is true that MK does a bit of contract work for Bethesda even now. But he's not actually on the full-time writing staff, and there's a reason they don't want him.

>>384751141
>there's a reason they don't want him.
explain

>>384739437
Some parts are pretty cool.

The way the different realms have been studied by the world's "astronomers" is interesting. As far as I can gather the planets you see in Tamriel's sky are actually different dimensions of some kind? Or are they actually just different planets and that's how the dumb mortals interpret it?

>>384751202
he's not generic fantasy enough

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>>384751606
I don't know why they'd want their game to be generic, but after the lore rape of Fallout it doesn't surprise me

>>384743704
>Oblivion action better than Morrowind
I'd rather hit something 6 times and miss 1 time to kill them than have to hit every enemy 40 times to kill them

>>384751202
MK makes interesting lore and cares about it but it conflicts with Todd the Retard's point of view.

>>384739437
It's a weird mishmash of generic fantasy tropes, recycled secondhand Kirkbride "what if the tower was, like, actually a spaceship maaaaaan" stuff, and poorly paid incompetent writers trying to keep the whole mess duct taped together while they add onto the pile with every new iteration of the game.

Some of the sidequests have good stories, but the overall lore is too inconsistent in tone and quality.

>>384739315
Skyrim is a bad game but on here it's a "Hey gang I think it's bad too am I cool!" even though they have two playthroughs on it, Morrowind>Oblivion>Skyrim>Daggerfall>Arena

>>384751141
>proceeding to meme about what is essentially fanfiction
Large portions of Kirkbride's OOG stuff is referenced in the games without actually being included in them. Heimskr, for instance. quotes large portions from 'From The Many-Headed Talos' without the full text being included in the game. Painted cows are introduced in the Seven Fights of Aldudagga, which is never mentioned in Skyrim, but painted cows are. And so on and so on.

The point about the "lore" of Elder Scrolls is that you have two dimensions; the first being the literal "what actually happened"; and the second, the theological dimension, which is a framework in which the prior is interpreted. Given that the latter is not presented in a literal straight-forward manner, it has to be constructed and is therefore open to interpretation.

>there's a reason they don't want him.
The reason why he isn't writing right now is because he has jobs elsewhere and Zenimax already has gotten other people, and the people who've they've gotten still respect and pay homage to him. Of course, Kirkbride isn't gospel, and no one treats him like he is. When he has an opinion about the lore people respect it.

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skyrim is the best

>>384751830
It's not a choice you should have to make. With all the tech advancements and with games pioneering new ways to do melee combat, there is no reason for combat to be as bad as it is in ES games. Comparing different ES games to each other is pointless because every single one of them has been fully a generation behind competing games released at the same time.

>>384739315
Come on now, Arena is not better then any other elderscroll game. The main quest is just: meet guy, go to a dungeon to retrieve his stolen shit, go to another dungeon to retrieve part of a staff, repeat 7 more times.

>>384751202
He's a very poor team member because he's a controlling megalomaniac that actually didn't get along with anyone else on the writing staff. Even during Morrowind he had massive creative differences with the rest of the writers, and it can be safely inferred that he had a sizable falling out with them.

I'd argue that his influence really is what made Morrowind so exotic and cool, however, it's likely only turned out okay because he was actively reigned in by the others on the staff. Ironically, that dichotomy probably made the game better, but he was a total nightmare to work with and he made the other writers unhappy because he's a dick, hence them wanting to keep him at arm's distance even while they still play ball with his influence to a moderate degree; this is why he's in a funky level of arguable canonicity. Letting him craft background elements that are of debatable truthfulness (The in-game books taken in context have a legitimately arguable level of actual authenticity because the fact that the writers could always be mistaken is there.) is probably a best of both worlds approach.

They get the benefits of his intriguing cosmology while simultaneously not actually needing to engage his megolomania, and can operate on a level where he can still safely be overruled. This is why MK's "word of god" takes a backseat to Bethesda's word of god. Since Morrowind, his lore has become a side-show of low validity.

>>384751830
Fucking this. Missing a few times and then braining your opponent feels a hell of a lot more satisfying than landing every one of the 50+ hits to kill a Willow-the-wisp.

>>384752739
>This is why MK's "word of god" takes a backseat to Bethesda's word of god.
Not dismissing Kirkbride's OOG work out of hand is different than taking him as gospel, which nobody does.

>>384739315
anyone who experiences pleasure from skyrim in any aspect besides the music needs to take a nice stroll off a cliff

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>>384752312

>>384744810
>not spamming transmute ore and making hundreds of gold rings

>>384753513
His OOG work is still fundamentally OOG. It doesn't even exist in that midpoint of "included but subservient" like his book inclusions do, and it's functionally his spread of fanfiction that has 0 relevance to anything. Actually, let me rephrase that. It can be better seen as his notes for what he WANTS to be included, but that has either been rejected by Bethesda or is something that's simply not in there yet thanks to being underdeveloped. It's not canon in the same way stuff left on the cutting room floor isn't canon.

If he could manage to get that stuff into an in-game book, it would be valid. But most of it does not make it in there.

>>384739315
Morrowind : Fantasy RPG
Daggerfall : Action roguelike
Oblivion : Fantasy Action
Skyrim : Fantasy Action

>Apples vs. Oranges

>>384754049
I'm not going to dispute the point that OOG work are ultimately outside of the games. Kirkbride gets a slide because his OOG is directly referenced in the games.

One interesting facet of the Elder Scrolls is lack of a central Truth-narrative. Contra fantasy series a la Dragon Age, there isn't a singular collection of factual occurrences. What you get instead is a disparate collection of various perspectives with varying levels of validity. Rather than collecting facts to construct a factual representation of what actually happened, materials are used to produce a framework of interpreting the various perspectives. In my experience in teslore, fanfiction is a tool in which expressing a framework by depending them in a particular perspective. People's problem with disagreement with Kirkbride is usually an excuse to reject that second dimension of - something that, within video games as a literary medium, is limited to only the Elder Scrolls and is what makes it different than all the rest.

>>384754943
>One interesting facet of the Elder Scrolls is lack of a central Truth-narrative.
That's the main reason I like talking about it, and also the main reason hearing about MK aggravates me.

It's a unique series where there are things that are genuinely open for interpretation, and you can actually have a different opinion on what may have gone down. For example, what CHIM is, is actually pretty debatable and in-game there are merely references to it that may not be strictly valid. DID Talos actually have CHIM and use it to overwrite Cyrodiil's landscape? Was Vicec always just a powerful sorcerer that used CHIM as a veil to obfuscate the reality of his godhood? Is manipulating the elder scrolls a facet of CHIM? These things are actually very open for debate. So when people bring up OOG sources and claim them as having in-game validity that functions as a factual explanation, it sort of flies in the face of what makes TES lore so good.

Also, I got into the elder scrolls lore on /tg/ many years ago, and people there would often post screenshots of shit like how MK literally got people banned from the reddit discussions there merely for disagreeing him, which makes him out to be a gigantic douchebag that doesn't share these kinds of feelings about the lore. He represents the ultimate level of engagement with the lore while simultaneously representing an ultimate level of disregarding what makes it so unique and enjoyable for everyone else that isn't him.

>>384739315
You're trying way too had to fit in.

Oblivion and Skyrim are 500x times better than Arena and 100x times better than Daggerfall.

I bet you were still sucking on your mom's tits when those ancient piles of trash came out.