Cataclysm did not ruin WOW

>>384676070
No, it was already ruined

>>384676070
That started with late BC/Early Wotlk

Yeah it was shit from the start.
Playing wc3 coop campaign these days, even simple mods are ten times better than wow and its even crappier clones.

>>384676070
No shit. It's players did.

CRZ and dungeon/raid finder ruined the game.

>>384676151
> This different genre is so much better and comparable to this other genre

Wew, lad. Quality postwork, my man.

>>384676182
This.

>>384676228
The point is that warcraft 4 would have been better but they never made it cuz wowmoney
Honestly you mmorpg shitters amaze me, how high of a tolerance for boring shit can you even have?

>>384676070
I'm curious how people who never saw old Azeroth react to it.
Any private server fags in here?

>>384676070
Correct, it was the fucking wrath babies that ruined it. Cata started as a return to form but wrath babies couldn't fucking handle the "difficulty" so it returned to mind numbing spoon feeding.

>>384676070
You enjoyed the end of talent trees? The simplification of skills? The removal of ammo? The LFM group finder removing the need to actively seek out others for dungeons? Flying added to Azeroth removing the PVP opportunities?

>>384676302
>any private server fags here?

which server do you play?

>>384676302
I'm sure they'd bitch about how confusing and hard it is due to them not telling you where to go when you finish quests in a zone.

>>384676294
That's an incredibly shitty point. And WoW did so well not because of the game, but because of the community that thrived within it.

By all means, enjoy your W3, there's nothing wrong with it. But being bitter over one game allegedly killing the chances of another installment (of which there was no guarantee you'd like, and could be shitposting about how WC4 ruined he franchise) is fucking stupid, and it makes you fucking stupid.

>>384676432
But they did, though.

Generally there was always a couple quests that would send you to another zone that would roughly be in the same range as the level you'd find yourself after almost clearing quests in your current zone. Did you even play vanilla or are you just a faggot?

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>>384676124
This.

The patch right BEFORE Cata was the real clincher though.

Ur right, wow was always crap

People would force their fun since they paid so much to play and felt obligated to

>>384676503
>allegedly
it's true though
>And WoW did so well not because of the game, but because of the community that thrived within it.
Basically admitting that the game is a dumpster fire, as I said

>>384676631
You're avoiding the part where you're a butthurt little bitch who just wants something to complain about. It has literally nothing to do with either game.

>>384676070

Objectively better then WOTLK

Alliance >>> Horde

>>384676690
That's just you though, wowshitter

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>>384676769
My brother in arms.

>>384676601
>cata's pre patch
>not cata

>Russell Bower leaves after his position was made redundant

This is a big loss considering all the iconic music he wrote, and yet it was intentional? WTF is Blizzard doing?

Can we now all agree that WotLK ruined WoW?

>First product of Actishit and Blizzard merging
>Rushed it out to compete with Warhammer Online
>So much cut content
>One i repeat, ONE good raid in a whole expansion, rest of them were rehash/underwhelming
>ToC is the one of the worst raids in the game
>Started AoE-faceroll dungeon meme
>LFD, no need to say more

>>384676769
Haha no

>>384676591
You must be fucking joking nigger, I legit never remember a single quest taking me into unguro, eastern plaguelands, silithus, burning steppes, . Shit you don't even get a quest to go into gadgetzan unless you go basically right to it in thousand needles. Shit I don't even think they had a quest for you to go into felwood either.

Most of vanilla I remember is you fucking explored or you heard someone talking about it. That or you thotbot'd/alakazham'd it.

>>384676805
I'm not really complaining about anything, just pointing out how retarded your complaints are because it makes me feel better about myself

>>384676867
The pre-patch was where most of the major class changes happened rather then Cata proper though which "Streamlined" a fuckton.

>>384676769
Maybe in a contest of who can take the biggest dildos.

>shit all over the original game world, dumbed down leveling, making all the mobs easy as fuck turning questing into a linear grind full of pop culture references


>somehow didnt ruin anything

>>384676376
>You enjoyed the end of talent trees?
Cataclysm was still bearable in that regard, mop removed them for good
>The simplification of skills?
Bloat was getting real already, besides it was nothing too bad yet.
>The removal of ammo?
Legacy mechanic that blizzard really didn't know what to do with and choose the least painful and quick way to resolve it.
>The LFM group finder removing the need to actively seek out others for dungeons?
It was implemented at least in wotlk, if not earlier even, cata brought lfr, which was one of the biggest sins of expansion.
>Flying added to Azeroth removing the PVP opportunities?
Open world pvp died in vanilla, clinging to it and trying to ressurect it artificially in every expansion since was one of the worst decisions blizzard made.

>>384677104
"full of pop culture references"
You never played vanilla then, shit was everywhere then too.

>>384677047
Just had to remind you that you are all shit for eating up the boredom simulator that is wow, and that we could have gotten something better had you not been such tasteless tards

>>384677148
>Open world pvp died in vanilla

MOTHER FUCKING THIS, THIS SO FUCKING MUCH. Jesus christ, these fucking dumb shit players never get it and bitch about flying every expansion talking about how fucking flying kills wpvp.

/ragemodeengage
IF IT KILLS WPVP THEN WHY THE FUCK ISN'T WPVP FUCKING EVERYWHERE WHEN THE FUCKING NEW EXPANSION LANDS FOR THE FIRST FUCKING YEAR? OH THAT'S RIGHT, IT'S FUCKING DEAD BECAUSE NOBODY WANTS TO FUCKING DO IT ANYMORE BECAUSE IF THEY WANT TO PVP THEY FUCKING GO INTO A BG WHERE THEY GET REWARDS, YOUR FUCKING GLORY DAYS ARE OVER FUCK FACES.

>>384677031
Are you fucking kidding?

Right off the bat, there's the quest that takes you around Goldshire, to Stormwind, and eventually to the edges of Redridge (something about horses, I don't remember exactly, but it had to do with defias), and completing it took you to Redridge. They had the same for Westfall, again, I don't remember the specifics but I think it had something to do with Oatmeal.

And then you literally complete every quest for whoever that quest lead you to and it would take you to Darkshire, Stranglethorn, etc. There was definitely a quest for Un'Goro, it came from Tanaris and you had to find some missing scientist or whatever and she(?) was literally right at the entrance. And from Un'Goro that same scientist gave you a quest that lead you to Silithis.

Jesus fucking Christ, you literally had to specifically break the chain of quests you got from the guy standing in front of the church to never get quests that lead you to another zone. They had the same shit for Horde, but I rolled Ally characters far more often than Horde so I'm not as familiar with those quests.

>>384677198
fuck off faggot, no it wasn't. we didn't start getting bullshit like harrison jones until wotlk and blizzard thought people suddenly wanted the whole game that way. the most we got was vague shit like marion and linken, which I didn't even notice because they were just random questgivers.

literally an entire zone is pop culture references in cata.

>>384677237
Sounds like you're just stuck in nostalgia more than WoWfags, which is a pretty monumental accomplishment when you think about it.

I fuck man ass

>>384676070

WoW was not ruined in a single stroke or one atrociously bad expansion pack. No, it took sustained effort, LFG, LFR, crossrealm, welfare gear, corridor raids and constant streamlining and casualization over half a decade before they could finally strangle the king.

Thinking about it just makes me depressed. They had 11 million paying customers, a huge fanbase, loads of cash to invest, a huge amount of goodwill(remember when Blizzard was a seal of quality) several incredibly popular settings and an impeccable history of titles. Basically every Blizzard game before WotLK was an instant classic. Diablo 2. Warcraft 3. Brood War etc are some of the most enduring and critically acclaimed titles in history.

And from this position of immense potential, from where they could have developed a stranglehold on gaming with excellent releases, without any financial or time pressure("When its ready") they managed to fuck up and be reduced to ailing F2P titles like HotS or Hearthstone and abortive shooters liem Overwatch. In their desperate chase of the casual dollar they actually managed to forever alienate casuals from the MMO genre, because instead of adding content casuals like and want like housing, hairs, cosmetics and the like they just tried to funnel everyone into raiding.

Sometimes I wonder what it is like to live in an alternate timeline where the merger never happened and what sort of games they would make.

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>>384677148
>Open world pvp died in vanilla
This is really often overlooked. People already complained about the decline of world PvP in vanilla. Battlegrounds are the real culprit.

>>384677382
nobody wants to world pvp now because its a horribly imbalanced mess of one-shotting each other all day. its like playing pubg or some shit, whoever sees the other player first wins (excluding a large gap in ilvl or some shit)

>>384677237
Then bring us something better faggot.

>>384677198

There is a difference between having some fun jokes here and there and designing entire zones around Indiana Jones, Rambo and Caruso.

>>384677435
Fuck off faggot and eat a giant dick and kill yourself.

Here's a fucking massive list of vanilla wow references that took only a few fucking seconds. http://wowwiki.wikia.com/wiki/List_of_pop_culture_references_in_Warcraft/WoW

>>384676359

and the pre-nerf cata heroics were still significantly easier than wotlk heroics were at launch.

but apparently even that was too hard.

>>384677425
>Alliance

Sorry, never played the cuck faction.

>>384677523
nostalgia? wc3 has a godlike editor and a community that makes more stuff to this day, wow is just boring, what is even the point of organizing so much for some shitty raid if the game itself is shit?

>>384677669
EQ2 was better mmo in old school mmo sense than vanilla wow was. Nobody played it because Warcraft brand name and obscene system requirements for everquest, especially when vanilla could run on calculators.

>>384677932
>EQ2

Yeah naw, I played that shit. Even fucking Vanguard was better.

>>384677897
That's fine, it doesn't matter. Quest progression was basically mirrored across factions and the formula for how and where to progress was the same. Playing a different faction doesn't make you any less of a faggot. I hit level cap on both sides before BC dropped, I just had a better guild on the Ally side so I played it more. But both sides essentially had the same quests.

>>384677927
Then why the fuck does it matter if WC4 was never made if you have so much glorious content for your game?

>>384677857

The root of that decay(and many other things) is the abolishment of tiers in WotLK In Vanilla and BC progression was a ladder, you had to climb the entire thing from start to finish. Since WotLK there are only two tiers ever, current and catchup. This is because shitters whined when they saw people decked out in tiers and wanted a sense of progression themselves, so blizzard has decided every single major patch should also be a full gear reset. This of course also ridiculously inflated item levels and caused all sorts of problems.

The absolute kicker is, this did nothing for casual retention. They do the "catchup" tier and then quit because they feel the game is finished and progression is too hard for them anyway.

>>384677857
>Anon is actually so retarded he believes this
WotLK heroics where piss easy from their very inception you dumb fuck, WotLK heroics started right off the bat with not needing to use CC compared to BC heroics where not having enough CC in your group meant some fights where near impossible.

>>384678039
Whatever you say cucko

>>384677897
The quest giver he's talking about in Un'Goro was neutral

>>384677382
Besides the obvious reason of the community being absolute garbage, another reason why world PvP worked in Classic is because the ranking system actually supported it. If a huge war broke out you WANTED to be a part of that shit, that was progression right there, so everyone scrambled to be in it.

Reminder that MoP was actually a great expansion that people meme'd about to death because of pandas and didn't get to experience the true peak of WoW.

>>384678097
Because a highly moddable rts with rpg mechanics + a simple to use powerful editor is something that should be brought into modern gaming, it has been too long. Obviously some things developed since the time the game came out

>>384678180

vanilla wow pvp ranks are one of the worst systems we've seen in any game period.

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I want to play good vanilla again. Crestfall can't happen soon enough.

>>384678136

>MGT was released
>all those T6 geared cucks wiping because they fucked up the CC

good times


>>384678180

People were also more involved with the world and the setting. It felt more of a world you could lose yourself in. You wanted to fight those other guys just for the hell of it and to defend your land.

Now people dont give a shit about anything, everything is a lobby, crossrealm or both. Why would you care about someone who you will likely never see again?

>>384678251
>WotLK/Cata were so bad people pretend MoP was good
Mechanics were still gutted, dungeons still trivial, daily quest bullshit was once more extremely prevalent and shitposters claiming that MoP was good NEVER have a single fucking argument to support their claim.

WHY are you claiming that MoP was good you inbred fuckwit, nobody cares about you liking it unless you explain yourself.

>>384678143
> Oshit, I got called out on being an idiot
> I'll just call him a cuck, that'll show him

>>384678136
I think that was more a product of the class changes that happened. CC was definitely more present in BC, but tanks in general (notably DK and Pally) were just so good at AoE tanking by the time WotLK happened that there was more dancing around spells and rotations and less marking and CC management. CC management was more tedious than difficult, but I do think it was more fun than dancing.

Garrosh did nothing wrong

>>384678419
>MUH BC
kek, kill yourself nostalgiafag
>Complains about dailies in MoP when they were so much worse in BC
Ignorant child

Can somebody tell me what happened to random encounters?

Like I'm not trying to go down the old "muh nostalgia" speech, but like I've been on/off on wow since vanilla and I like to go back for a month or some weeks every once in a while, but man have the player attitudes changed.

I always loved the random encounters with other players: the stupid /general spam, the lame discussions and the short acquaintances made in /party chat, but now everybody is so fucking silent.

Yes I know that most people watch shows or whatever when running casual content but do nobody really want to bullshit around with strangers anymore? That used to be my favorite thing about dungeon leveling alts (even post LFG).

But now /general is quite or just filled with weeaboos doing their strange stuff. /party is silent in LFG. /raid is silent in LFR (no jokes? no spam?) /general is dead and /trade is actual fucking trade.

It breaks my heart when 30 people are standing around waiting for a WC boss to spawn and /s is blanc.

I really don't get it, that was always what made wow have a special place in my heart. The MMO part.

>>384678427
>Thinks I got called out.

you can say whatever the fuck you want cucko, you don't have any actual evidence, show me the fucking proof. I could say you get a quest from Naruto to kill Simba the moment you make a Gnome Samurai, it doesn't mean shit.

>>384678492
BC *was* the best expansion though. That's not saying much, but it still was "the best".

>>384676964
Nobody "ruined" ur wow. It's just became more and more casual with each patch. But still fun as hell to play. The only shitty chapter was WoD.

>They got away with a monthly fee
>There are people that played wow and later posted on /v/ complaining about muh scummy dlc practices

>>384678576
>BC *was* the best expansion though.
Pure nostalgiafag.
>Hasn't played WoW in a decade
>Thinks he can comment about it

>>384678427
You would straight up die to just regular damage if you tried to "aoe tank" in BC heroics

>CC management was more tedious than difficult
It leads to interesting scenarios, CC breaking and having to scramble to react, pulling a patrol mid fight and adjusting, fights where a challenge and getting killed was a legitimate threat where you had cause to utilize all tools at your disposal for the edge you needed to win

You'll never see cool shit like your healer mindcontrolling a mob healer to take it out of the fight while utilizing their spells to save mana, or a rogue taking aggro on a group of ranged enemies and kiting them away from the fight to buy time.

>>384678302
> Should be brought into modern gaming

It really shouldn't. WC3 is complex compared to modern games, and WC3's gameplay is incredibly simple compared to most other RTS of the time (and some after), but even something as moderately aged as AoE3 is simpler to navigate than WC3, despite it's predecessors.

Games have gotten simpler over time (see: casualized), and to survive in a modern climate, it would not even be close to what you'd want out of it. Something like WC3 is pretty much perfect where it's at. Especially with the state of RTS games lately.

>>384676070
yea WOLTK did

>>384678527
Go play a private server for a couple days and follow the chain from the first quest giver. I'm not going to WoW wiki spoon-feed you because I honestly don't give a shit about you.

>>384676601
>defending ammo

It was expensive to buy the best ammo from the AH and it took up an entire bag slot

>>384678706
Both WoD and Legion are fucking awful though. MoP is easily the most consistently decent out of all post cataclysm expansions

>>384678351
I love how it became just accepted by my server's community that the etiquette in TBC heroics was
>sap star, sheep moon, trap square. root triangle, fear / mind control diamond

You just need a good person to mark targets and you were usually good. Heroics in TBC, especially when still in mostly blues were fucking scary. I lost SO MANY shadow labs runs to the mind controller fucker. I still have
>TIME FOR FUN!
burned into my mind and it is probably the closest thing I have to a trigger.

>>384678492
>All that childish namecalling with no substance
Wew lad, you sure showed me.
>Dailies where much worse in BC
Dailies in BC where exclusively for shit like cosmetic/optional content though, doing dailies for required gear and such and forced padding of content in this manner wasn't a thing until WotLK.

BC had shit like grinding dungeons for rep, made for interesting events like guilds bringing shitters along for a tour of BT while they grinded up the rep they needed for shadow resist gear, and made for a more involved community.

>>384678713
> Interesting scenarios

I agree with that. I rolled Survival hunter during those days, and I was pretty proud I could hold 4 ice trapped enemies for most fights while still dishing out respectable DPS.

You're right. There was tedium, but it was definitely more fun.

>>384678526
>That spacing

Yeah, not even going to read your shit.

>>384678918
What? I thought it'd be easier to digest that way?

>>384678863
>Just fear the guy that gets mindcontrolled
>Healer gets mindcontrolled
>Fear runs him all the way out of the room
>Tank dies before he gets back
Good times. Also fuck me I still remember exactly those marks as well, it was common etiquette literally everywhere.

>>384678706
>HURRR NOSTALGIA

I can literally say that about anything you like as well cunt.

>Hasn't played wow in a decade.

I've been playing since the start off and on, fuck I'm currently playing it. BC is still so far the best.

>>384678989
c
o
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l


s
t
ory

b


ro

>>384678989
Proper use of paragraphs is now considered "reddit spacing" by some of the more retarded people here, best to just leave them to their autistic screeching.

I mean good lord I remember the days where we would laugh at faggots who just made one massive wall of text and went "nigga I ain't gonna read all that shit by (You)" but these days it's wall of text or you're "reddit spacing"

>>384678526
Guild chat is dead because Cata killed social guilds with Guild levels.
People don't dick around while levelling because it doesn't take an obscene amount of time anymore and all the worthwhile content is at the level cap.
People don't talk in lfd because they'll never meet their party members again and they want to be done with it as soon as possible, same with lfr.
People don't talk in general and trade because time spent chatting isn't time spent gearing up for endgame content.
Most people just think "I'll have time to enjoy the game after I'm done with all the grind" but the grind never ends.

>>384678739
>WC3's gameplay is incredibly simple compared to most other RTS of the time (and some after)
Literally what the fuck are you on about, it's the most micro heavy, apm demanding game in the history of rts, the type of shit you can pull if you can control every unit effectively is insane, and 99% of people aren't capable of it.
Modern means it gets upgraded, nowhere did I say it has to be casual, and if you think it has to be made so to fit into the modern climate, then you are delusional just like the marketers for most games

>>384679189
Spacing one sentence at a time isn't a fucking paragraph.

You must be a complete retard to think this qualifies as a paragraph.

Or even this sentence.

This is obnoxious and isn't worth reading.

If you've been reading these kill yourself.

You're a disappointment to your family.

>>384679189
>Proper use of paragraphs is now considered "reddit spacing"
""""""""proper"""""""" use

>>384679394
>Paragraphs are defined by length not by subject
Hows that American education working out for you buddy?

>>384678874
>Dailies in BC where exclusively for shit like cosmetic/optional content though, doing dailies for required gear and such and forced padding of content in this manner wasn't a thing until WotLK.
FUCKING
ALDOR
INSCRIPTIONS

>>384679383
>most micro apm demanding game in the history of rts

Starcraft says hello.

>>384679197

The faster they made leveling, the more of a meaningless and bothersome chore it became. Its pretty funny actually how it is by far the most fun to level is in vanilla. I really like the little milestones like doing your class quests and getting blue weapons.

>>384679489

They're both faggot. A paragraph however isn't a fucking stand alone sentence. That would be like saying that a bicycle is a truck just because it has fucking wheels.

>>384679525
>he doesn't know
play the newest installment, or look up some pro wc3 moments, I'm not here to educate ya

>>384676769
Tedious Horde v Alliance idiocy is what actually ruined wow.

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>>384677825
> he still uses wowwiki

>>384679037
Or my favorite
>Tank gets punted away
>time for fun
>the rogue gets MCed
>2 shots the healer

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>>384676070
It wasn't the end, but you could see it from there

>>384679512
Those weren't locked by dailies though, those where very grindable hand-ins which is far better if you're not someone who plays every fucking day.

The issue with dailies is that it forces you to play every fucking day or fall behind, you could play the same total hours as some other faggot but if you only have time on weekends you are just way behind now, whereas with hand-ins you could just grind the same amount of time and end up roughly in the same place.

Fuck dailies, they're the bane of MMOs, it's mind-numbing laborious work that sucks the fun out of the game, nobody is sitting around anticipating doing their dailies and it breeds the mentality of "lets just get this over with so I can get ((that shit I need)) rather than for example grouping up with a bunch of faggots and grinding the shit you need together while banting in chat.

>>384679685
>he doesn't know
Look up nada, or look up yellow moments, I'm not here to educate ya

>>384679759
>BTFO with using a simple google search
>Nothing to say
>Smug anime post
>Tries to think of something witty to save face

You're really, really burying yourself you dumb cunt.

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>>384676070
ye agreed, thankfully they've saved the game with legion games better than ever now

>>384679653
>They're both
>B-because I say so!
They're not though, leave your fucking headcanon fantasy faggotry out of it.

Paragraphs are used to create a clear segregation between multiple separate points or arguments, there is nothing about them that mandates a specific minimum length, though spacing things out too much is arguably a sign that your argument is a scattered mess, which doesn't change the inherent fact that it's proper use of paragraphs.

What you're doing right now is getting bad allies in a video game and whining about their nationality, rather than whining about the fact that they're bad at the fucking game.

>>384679146
xxxDD

>>384679189
I see, thanks for the head up.

>>384679197
That was interesting. You do make some good points. I just have a hard time relating to that attitude of playing. I get some people are mostly/only social in guilds, I remember these people from vanilla too. I just don't get the people playing this like a SP game. I know the game has gotten casual to a degree where this is possible, but why then play wow? Why grind for cool loot if nobody is 'mirin you like people did in vanilla IF?There are much better SP RPGs out there, much better ARPGs and arguably better MMOGs.

But I'm just sad that I used to be able to go back for 2 weeks make some temporary friends, have some laughs, cancel my account and rince repeat every 8-12 months or so. It seems the last 2 years that this is becoming increasingly harder to do and I couldn't put my finger on why.

>>384679383
Except it does. If it wants to make money in a way Blizzard can justify spending the time and money on it, it has to appeal to a larger audience. And you're insane if you think Blizzard will let another company make it.

Speaking of delusion, you're off you're rocker if you think WC3 is the most APM/micro demanding game. I honestly don't even know what to say to you, since you clearly have to deny he existence of another game made by the same company to think that.

>>384679932
I'm not even the anon you were arguing with, it's just that wowwiki is shit compared to wowpedia

>>384679551
I always get annoyed when I read stuff like "vanilla leveling was so tedious". People don't understand that leveling used to be an important part of the game rather than a boring grind that exists just so that people don't start with a max level character.

>>384679981
>They're not
>B-because I say so!

They're are though, leave your fucking headcanon fantasy faggotry out of it.

Paragraphs are multiple sentences placed together to create a clear segregation betweeen multiple separate points or arguements, only one would make them a sentence, spacing them out too much is arguably proof you're retared, and you have no idea that a sentence of this length is considered a run on sentence and should have ended ages ago.

What you're doing right now is getting bad allies in a video game and whining about their nationality, rather than whining about the fact that they're bad at the fucking game.

>>384680207
Google mother fucker.

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>>384676070
It started the process tho

>>384680236
>No argument, just insisting "I'm right and you're wrong"
Anon the fact that I dismissed your bullshit without an argument was because you never fucking provided one to your claim in the first place, you just copying that shit and acting like your job is done is just grade A retardation.

Also
>Reddit spacing
Wew lad, maybe you should go back?

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>>384676070
professionalization and streamlining (no this doesn't necessarily mean that the high end content is too easy) are killing MMOs, and all games really

>pic related is six years old or so

>>384679551
>>384680221
Yeah it's sad, I've always had the most fun leveling and meeting new people. Like when you ran WC with somebody and you'd randomly see them again in SM and then BRM over the course of some weeks.

But I guess there really isn't a lot to do from Blizzards side. To keep the main playerbase subscribing they sorta have to just keep expanding the end game content right?

>>384680454
have they still not copied huttball into the game?

>>384680482
>No argument, just insisting "I'm right and you're wrong"
Anon the fact that I dismissed your bullshit without an argument was because you never fucking provided one to your claim in the first place, you just copying that shit and acting like your job is done is just grade A retardation.

Also
>Reddit spacing
Wew lad, maybe you should go back?

>>384676070
Agree, it started going to shit with WotLK, even that expansion was still good enough

>>384676302
Come to Warmane, faggot. Start having fun again.

>>384676294

really really really high

>>384680489
Damn, spot on. What do you mean by professionalization though?

>>384680489
>professionalization and streamlining
Also datamining and wikification

>>384677596
Nah it wasnt BGs it was being able to join a BG by talking to Battlemasters in the capital cities that killed world PVP. People seem to forget that even in vanilla WoW Blizzard began to streamline shit.

>>384678825
Oh you poor hunter. I played Warlock, I had to farm shards to summon the lazy cunts, farm shards to give the lazy cunts lock rocks, farm shards to summon my pets, farm shards to make spellstones.

>>384676070
It should have stayed with WoTLK with endless super patches instead.

Imagine WoTLK at level 110, it would be fabulous.

Mists of Pandaria was a high point in post-WotLK WoW and it's a good goddamn shame to see what WoD and Legion have done.

>>384680850
>WoTLK
You mean TBC? WotLK was where the game started turning to shit with homogenisation of the classes and shit

>>384680883
>defending kung fu panda expansion
So, you're not a true fan then.

>>384678347
Didn't you read the recent events? Their now ex-community manager quit because the lead dev was basically lying with the progress and all they have scripted is 1-30 content and clustering. It's never happening jim.

>>384676070
Dragon Soul trashed WoW.

>>384676125
It was on a Downward Slope post Ulduar.

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>>384677596

Archeage is the only game with real world pvp that matters (as in massive amounts of wealth matters) unfortunately the population died by like 99%

https://www.felmyst.com/
5 hours lads.

>>384680783
>Watched that whole shit start with questhelper and shit
>Didn't think much of it at the time, just thought it funny people would rather have some program hold their hand the entire time rather than learn how to succeed on their own
>TFW Blizzard decided this should now be a standard feature
>TFW Blizzard redesigned all the starting zones around this mentality and gutted all the old hidden quests, shortcuts, travel quests that used to feel like a legitimate adventure like oldschool alliance stonetalon chain.

Sad times, used to be such a great feeling to find some guy on a separated segment of a collapsed bridge where you needed a speed boost to get to it, or diving around in those waters and finding the Sully Baloo quest, and sharing stories of your exploits with others so they can discover and experience it as well.

Then
>"Wow I found this really cool quest"
>Oh shit hold up I'm coming over to check it out!
Now
>"Found a cool quest here guise"
>"Yea I already read about it, not worth it imo let's just carry on to the next point on the list of chores"

>>384680953
Oh, by homogenisation you mean each class getting more than one or two working specs.

>>384680838
Also
>Pls summon
You were ALWAYS the one who had to go over to the dungeon.

>>384681052
>game is rotten with p2w to the core
No shit wealth matters.

>>384681116
id love an accurate tbc server but every single pserver has been total shit, including nost (that world latency).

>>384680850
My dream server would be a Vanilla server with demakes of Classes and raids introduced in later expansions.
In case you aren't familiar with demakes hare' s a link from the least shit website I could find. http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/VideogameDemake
Basically it would have DKs, Monks and raids like Ulduar and Black temple but they'd play like a Vanilla class or raid.

>>384676070
WHy is Blizzard STILL calling WoW a RPG if it doesn't have actual literally literal roles anymore?

Fire maegs shouldn't be able to damage Ragnaros, they're supposed to heal him with those spells, and why aren't the Forsaken undead getting debuffs for not eating a corpse every hour, and why aren't they allergic to all things holy?

And why the FUCK can't Fury warriors use one handed melee weapons anymore? WHy can't a fury warrior beat the fucking shit out of someone with a wand for fucks sake!??!?!

>>384676302
Got on the Elysium hype train, it was my first time playing wow and I had a friend who was a veteran at the game easing me into it.
First time through Azeroth was amazing. Mysticism at every corner, trying to get gear and do more damage to mobs is extremely addicting. First time I walked from desolace to feralas was amazing.
I'm very much looking forward to playing through the TBC expansion on felmyst
Probably gonna wait a week or two for hype to die down because grinding on Elysium was torture at points

>>384677382

retard

legion :

geared dps literally instakill each other in the world, it's just whoever gets the first hit in
and tanks will beat almost anything else 1v1 until they decide to pop one of their 100 immunes/escapes/sprints/gliders/jumps and just leave
world is a giant fucking mess of impassable terrain
can't start fights by messing with towns, you'll just get flooded with endless elite guards
crossrealm shit and dead community, so you barely ever see the same players. vanilla had tons of personal and guild rivalries you'd care about fighting
arena and """esports""" siphoned off a bunch of people that would otherwise care about it

granted it was dead long before legion but it's dead because it was killed because it upset cash shop convenience addicted whales who want a cuckold simulator rather than a game

also cata mostly just ruined quest design and that's undisputable

>>384680769
It boils down to the fact that nearly everyone wants to play these games as "efficiently" as possible.

>>384680783
>Also datamining and wikification
yeah these are parts of the problem, they stand for removing as many unknown or random factors as possible because they lower the player's efficiency

Can someone remind me when they added the dungeon finder and cross-server functionality? These are the two things that killed WoW in my mind by making the game far less social. I could go on a long rant on how these two features make the game suck, but it's been said countless times.

>>384676070
I hated how they permanently changed all the zones, but I also hated how everyone complained how it was too hard.

>>384682584
Path 3.3.3 for dungeon finder.

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>cataclysm

>>384681874
>Calls me a retard
>Fucking agrees with me

I honestly don't know what to say.

>>384676151
How is the wc3 coop campaign? Did they do Frozen Throne yet?

>>384682584
Lfd was introduced in mid to late WOTLK. Lfr was in Cata, which also killed casual/social guilds by I troducing guild levels.

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>>384682584
Nevermind, I googled it. The dungeon finder was preceded by the LFG tool, which blizzard forced on us by removing ye olde LFG chat channel (and preventing use of trade chat for LFG). It started in BC but matured in WotLK. Similarly, cross-realm shit was added over time into various areas, starting with battlegrounds, and finally ending up with seeing random people from other servers in the open world in MoP.

>>384676070
toc ruined wow

>>384676070
LFD, difficulty bloat and the leveling revamp are all responsible for ruining WoW. Both Wrath and Cata are to blame.

Can we turn this into a WoW music thread in memory of Russell Brower getting fired by Actijews?

I'll start.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HEK4OXIx9NE

>>384682842
>i'll tell ya one thing about past life
Oh shit where was this going

SAPPY FROM RAGNAROS?

WHO THE FUCK IS THAT?

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>>384679750
>>384676769

>going to blizzcon for the first time and seeing how fat/ugly FOR THE HORDE types were in real life

I went blue team shortly afterward and haven't looked back. I miss my qt orc huntard and faggot BE priest, but I can't go back.

Unironic faction pride is really offputting, but the Horde has so much more of it it isn't even funny.

>>384676070

Cataclysm just built on the foundation that WoLK laid out. It didn't really change a lot of stuff

>>384680838
That doesn't make it any less shit design. Pointing out more bad design doesn't somehow absolve it.

>>384685414
to be fair, most people at blizzcon are pretty fucking ugly.

>>384681116
>start at level 1
no thanks

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>>384685610

Not really. Might have something to do with the normie infestation or whatever, but outside of the jarringly fat and/or ugly people (who were nearly all red team) everybody else was at least average.

>>384680838
I'm not going to contest that locks had a bunch of responsibility, but hunters had to stock up on ammo, find and tame the right pet for the right job, and lock inventory slots carrying food the little fucker wanted to eat.

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>>384682842
What weak jewish realm are you on

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Cataclysm was pretty good, Firelands was amazing, reforging stats was cool, the PVP was in a much better state than it is now, it was the exp that added transmog, the only big mistake from that exp was the addition of LFR, which is worse than anything else ever added to the game.

>>384686138
That was back when they duped them

>>384684660
Wait Russell was fired? When?

>>384686193
Transmog was just an excuse for Blizzard to be lazy as fuck with armor design.

>>384681121
>Muh nostalgia guys!!!

There were no cool quests in vanilla, almost all quests involved collecting 50 buzzard beaks from copy past enemies.

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>>384686202
ah, makes more sense then

>>384685889

>literally worse artstyle than 4 years ago

I dont get it.

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>>384686138

>tfw got all the tcg mounts in the duping phase AND before the 999,999g cap was upped

Thank Christ

I never though I'd feel poor with "only" 5 million gold to my name, but here we are.

>>384680710
>Warmane
I remember when that place was called molten, how is it these days?

>>384676070
Vanilla WoW ruined warcraft.

WotLK killed WoW and buried it. Thematically with ruining their own best character, and from the MMO perspective with their stupid overreliance on daily quests, completely pointless phasing, starting a systematic homogenization of all classes, and rooting itself in ruining the MMO aspect of MMOs, which is community and player interaction.

>>384681048
>It was on a Downward Slope post Ulduar.
It was on a downward slope since the first daily quests were introduced. Which is late BC.

>>384686508
>Which is late BC.
Silithus actually.

>>384677237
I wanted WC4 and the return of the map editor more than anything, but after seeing SC2 I'm convinced it would've been shit

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>>384681623
>make a player gear up his mainspec for years
>lmao you cant use that on this fight but everybody else who isnt limited by elements can
Really fucking grateful that idiots like you arent in charge.

>>384686362

She's still a qt

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I knew WoW was dead back in WoTLK. I had quit a bit before the end of BC, to try and cure my autism. A few years later I watched my friend play some heroic Northrend dungeon just because I was curious as to what WoW was like now. It was a heroic, he and his group members just instantly ported to the dungeon and there was:

no communication
no marking
no pulling
no CC
no managing tank/healer aggro
just everyone running around monkey aggroing every mob and aoeing them to death with shit like consecration and arcane explosion

If you tried heroic shattered halls or arcatraz like that in BC you would have wiped instantly, but him and his group members just casually ran through the dungeon. It looked so mind numbing and soulless just like the game truly became

>>384687074
>make a player gear up his mainspec for years
Vertical progression is cancer that killed mmos, anon. Of fucking course you don't design encounters that punishes one spec in a vertical progression game.

On that note blizzard managed to fucked up even with, member how al alar was immune to fire damage? I memeber.

>>384686631
What dailies were there at Silithus?

BC is the first time I remember having to do shit day after day for literally months to get anything from a faction.

You can tell who the MoP babbies and on are by them blanket bashing Cataclysm because it's the cool expansion to shit on before WoD.

They don't know 4.0 wasone of the top 5 patches of WoW and still is largely regarded as one of the best points in time for dungeon difficulty.

>>384685936
>but hunters had to stock up on ammo, find and tame the right pet for the right job, and lock inventory slots carrying food the little fucker wanted to eat.

Good. God forbid there's any roleplaying in an RPG.

They should have given your pet a little bag spot to make up for it

>>384677825
>posts a list that has references from all the expansions combined

great point you utter fucking retard.

>>384689878
>still is largely regarded as one of the best points in time for dungeon difficulty.

The dungeons themselves were pretty shit though

>>384689878
Dungeon design was a step forward from WOTLK's corridor running aoefest, but still not where it should be. I do remember the insane amount of praise for the difficulty though. Until every dungeon got nerfed like, 3 months in.

>>384685936
I always figured that was the price you paid for playing the easiest to level class in the game.

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we're gonna make it brah

I think we're all in agreement Wrath ruined WoW, it's just that the content was still good at the time so no-one realised it.

>>384689878
>>384690384
>>384690559
https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/news/2053469/wow-dungeons-are-hard
>GC tried to stop the QQ with a well thought post but was overruled
>Now all we get are garbage scriped Q+As

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>>384690801
>the blast furnace

>>384690027
I liked the flavor of it, but wildly different pets at any given time meant you had a lot of shit clogging your bags to prepare.

>>384686430
It is not being Molten for starters, that is a plus.
You can try it's new tbc realm.

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>>384678526
>>384679197
As someone who has been playing more on than off since the end of BC, none of what you're describing sounds familiar. That indicates to me that you're just on weirdly dead/anti-social server(s). My advice to you would be to roll an alt on another server and see if your experience changes.

I'm on Spinebreaker-US. Here, /general and /trade are regularly used for banter and other loose forms of socialization, and we even have a number of "local celebrities" who everybody knows and chats with. Any any time I get into a dungeon or LFR group, people usually say "hi" when you join and chit chat in between pulls.

>>384676070
Vanilla ruined WoW

>>384679197
>Guild chat is dead because Cata killed social guilds with Guild levels.
Guild chat is dead because you're in a shitty guild. The guild leveling system was introduced in Cataclysm and removed in Warlords of Draenor. It no longer exists, so continuing to use it as a scapegoat for your own guild's collective social ineptitude is folly.

>>384692098

Yeah, they removed after it destroyed all the guilds. Wow, such an improvement.

Streaming and beta's destroyed the game completely, who could do the most dps? who could finish raids the fastest?

competition destroyed the game RIP, if ur not good at the game, then get the fuck out scrub is what everyone started to say...

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>>384685784
> trying his hardest to shit all over red.

Yeah, they're clearly the ones with the issue anon.

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>>384692290
It was around for two expansions. Now it's been gone for two expansions. If you really believe that social guilds just no longer exist because of some sort of salted earth effect that is still in place long after the death of the guild leveling system, I have a feeling that you either aren't looking very hard or that you simply haven't played the game at all recently and are trying to use outdated information to back up your claims.

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Correct me if I'm wrong. But I feel like RNG killed any hope left for the game.

>Titanforging
>Warforging
>WQ's
>RNG legendaries
>Bonus Rolls
>Artifact Weapons
>AP grinding
>"Hero! HERO please! Hero, you're our ONLY hope!"
>LFR
>Arenas
>Personal Loot
>Mandatory Class hall quests
>Bread crumb quest trackers
>Dance club AH
>Tmog competitions
>Stupid holidays
>Reskinned mounts out the ass
>Over the top cringy armors
>Purchasable lv 100

The list goes on. Yet all of that... all of that would be forgivable if they just FIXED the god damn world that deathwing fucked up! I just want my old world back.

>>384693018
>Over the top cringy armors
Everything else you've listed is subjective, which I'm not saying to discredit your argument - if you don't like those aspects, you won't like WoW, and that's legitimate. However, this specific point is just a sore thumb on the rest of your list. You really believe that armor sets are any more "over-the-top" and "cringey" now than they were in older expansions?

>>384692868
>>384693293

I'd bet money this one is a paid shill.

>>384693018
I agree with all of this. I also think achievements have gone beyond retarded. There's all this bullshit weighing the game down, and don't forget all the fucking aids garrison shit too. So many problems and yet they remove stuff like queue'd scenarios right away. I fucking hate the WoW devs.

Nothing ruined wow.
You, like the rest of the players, "figuted it out" and now you realize how shallow it is.

>>384693018
No it was RDF and Heirlooms. People can literally sit in Goldshire, or Orgimmar from 10 or 15 all the way 110, without moving and without communicating. It's fucking CANCER and is so ANTI MMO. RNG is probably like 5th behind the world being revamped.

>>384680489
Agreed. MMOs need a sense of mystery to feel worth playing. I kinda feel like how easy leveling has been made is hurting them too, since you never really feel like making friends with some random person passing by would benefit you since you're never in any danger of dying anyways.

>>384693758
Stop projecting faggot, if that was true everybody would ITT would have left WoW by the end of vanilla.

>>384694009
They didnt because they grew fond of the game.

Not knowing what it has to offer and not knowing the optimal way to play was what made it fun.

>>384677542
<3

>>384693018
>gameplay problems would be alright if they "fixed" the level 1-60 world that literally doesnt matter for shit because everybody has 11 characters at level 100 and higher at this point

It peaked with Ulduar

>>384677075
The pre-patch is part of Cata you fucking mongoloid.

>>384693497
Great counter-argument. You're wrong, but since your world is so small that anyone who disagrees with you must be getting paid to do so, I'm sure you won't believe that. What next; gonna call me a cuck?

>>384694667
t. cuck

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>>384694718