Bioshock

>>384657994
A fucking idiot just like the person he was based off of.

>>384657994
An interesting character who deserved more monologue before being killed

>>384660416
Both of them are smarter than you

>>384660716
>smarter
maybe, but definitely not at all consistent, just like rand.
Where did his free market utopia go?
Why did rand accept government help later in life?

>>384660932
because she paid taxes for the services all her life

>>384657994
Getting out-played by fontaine is pretty embarrassing, desu.
Otherwise he's very admirable, built his own fortune. Built Rapture with his own money. Gathered people not by politics, nepotism or class, but because of his personal interest in them such as McDonagh. Despite his conservative nature he wasnt a totalitarian and allowed people like Cohen who in every regard should have been considered a "dirty parasite".

>>384660981
That makes it totally okay then. You still didn't address Ryan's hypocrisy.

>>384657994
Ryan?
Did nothing wrong.
Fontaine?
Did nothing wrong.

>>384661149
>Fontaine?
He literally murdered a guy in cold-blood and stole his identity.

>>384661250
Never-mind Mr. Free market turning into Stalin

>>384661048
oh Ryan is a total hypocrite, his moral code clearly breaks down over time

https://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/bioshock/images/2/2e/Andrew_Ryan_-_Desperate_Times.ogg/revision/latest?cb=20100702143831

but I do like seeing him against Lamb in Bio2, fuck Lamb

Ryan's enforced isolation inherently makes pure capitalism impossible and I imagine the real estate market is somehwat skewed when one man built the whole town

>>384660932
>>384661048
No ones defending Ryan's hypocrisy, that's his defining character trait and fatal flaw.

You learn so much about Ryan's life in order to give you insight on what makes a man turn into the exact opposite of his principles. He's compelling because he becomes what he despises the most due to his hubristic and suffers the consequences

>>384657994
Rather interesting character.

Didn't like that the second game made him seem ineffective, even if it was intentional ("I was only PRETENDING to be retarded!"), and I didn't like how Infinite made him just seem like a product of "constants and variables" and there were invariably infinite other men like him across the multiverse, and I didn't like how Burial at Sea made him seem like an idiot.

>>384661250
Who? Atlas? Atlas was an entirely invented person.

it's time to settle this /v/

Subject Delta vs Sigma, who do you prefer?

>>384661331
>your life's dream is being corrupted by wops trying to overthrow you
>not having to bend your morals to fight back
What would you have done?
>>384661427
Frank Gorland was a PI who killed a ship captain when he was investigating Ryan.

File: Shodan.gif (418KB, 724x481px) Image search: [Google]

418KB, 724x481px

>The Atlas Form is dead, insect

>>384661540
>what would I have done
Realise that my free market utopia requires toilet scrubbers, Realize that an isolated market is doomed to fail, not waste so much resources building a place at the bottom of the ocean, not invite therapists/psychologists, etc.

If your dream is ruined by you trying to save it, it's probably not worth having.

>>384661723
why didn't he invite the best damned sewage maintenance people in the world anyway? it's what John Galt would have done desu

>>384661723
>Realize that an isolated market is doomed to fail
Japan was isolationist for quite some time and survived just fine.
>not invite therapists/psychologists
agreed
>your dream isnt worth fighting for
wew lad

>>384661805
>the country that was in civil war for 200 years was just fine

>>384661805
>Japan was isolationist for quite some time
wew lad

>>384661902
>no country ever fights or has a disagreement
>>384661906
they were though

>>384661805
Japan had U.S. most of the way. Japan =/= Rich enclave at the bottom of the ocean.

His dream was shit, and doomed from the start.
>>384661795
He did I think, problem is though engineers are in short supply because of their skillset, and even then you need rank and file plumbers too, and their jobs aren't worth the same, even at the bottom of the ocean,

>>384662043
Rapture had most everything Japan had, resource wise though.
And no, their doors were forced open by the dutch.

>>384662113
Rapture didn't have the population, pre-existing infrastructure (stable infrastructure at all according to the audio tapes) , or work-yourself-to death ethic.

>>384662229
>or work-yourself-to death ethic.
japan didnt have hyper-capitalism until the west came.
And their infrastructure was good until the war with fontaine broke out.

>>384662324
>didn't have hyper capitalism until the west came
Then stop comparing imperial japan to Rapture.
The audiotapes disagree, with Hephaestus and Persephone having lots and lots of engineering/mechanical problems.

>>384662434
It was purely for the "countries cant be isolationists and survive" argument.
>Persephone
The real mistake was even wasting money on a jail in the first place.
>Hephaestus
I wouldnt expect the core of any major thing to be without its problems. Especially given the place, and time period.

>>384662732
You can't compare them, then. They had their own set of issues, own systems, and own ways of life that are completely incompatible with modern liberalism, which is inherently globalist.

>>384662821
Its a good thing Rapture wasn't inherently liberal then.

>>384662909
How was it not? It was super hyper capitalistic.

>>384662964
Well what kind of liberal are we talking about exactly?
Ryan's no morality in the way of societal progress, complete freedom , etc?
Then sure.

>>384663225
the Adam Smith liberal, not the ree numales liberal

>>384662821
>confusing liberalism with communism
It's as if a libtard claims that traditionalism and fascism are the same

>>384663318
Well Rapture still wasnt inline with anything else in the world so you really cant brand it as X.

>>384663414
Where did I say anything about communism?
>>384663446
Rapture wasn't inline with any real world place, but the ideology is still there, and it very clearly failed due to Ryan's Hubris

>>384663583
>and it very clearly failed due to Ryan's Hubris
I'd say more so Fontaine's ruthless nature being superior to Ryan's.

>>384662964
He means classic liberalism ie free market capitalism, libertarianism and other bullcrap Rand wanked over.

>>384663583
>Where did I say anythinf about communism
When you equalled liberalism with globalism, parrotting /pol/'s opinions like a good goy.

>>384663816
And wasn't that what rapture was supposed to uphold?
>>384663946
Capitalism is pretty globalist, I don't know what you're talking about.

>>384664003
Capitalism has nothing to do with globalism you clueless lib arts faggot.

>>384657994
was cucked by his own ideals

>>384664003
>liberalism is now capitalism
>and globalism
>and communism
Pretty versatile ideology. Now fuck off retard.

>>384664063
Pardon me then? Is free market what you're looking for?

>>384664127
Liberalism is capitalism, unless you're the retard using modern american demsocs.
I never said anything about communism.

Ryan was a hypocrite fool, who wanted to create a free society, and yet decided to control it when it didnt went the way he wanted.
At least he had some admirable points, such as his resolution, unlike Fontaine who is an all around idiot.

>>384664164
Free market is a sub-class of an economic system.
globalism is a societal system.
They are mutually exclusive things.

>>384664230
>Liberalism is capitalism
Liberalism is an ideological belief.
Capitalism is an economic system.
Is this really the trash """""""""""higher-learning""""""""""""" uni's are pushing out to you children?

>>384664351
The two are very easily intertwined, as we see in modern politics.
>>384664450
Capitalism is the economic arm of the ideology of liberalism. If you're just gonna try to insult where I'm getting this info then feel free to prove me wrong.

>>384664597
>The two are very easily intertwined, as we see in modern politics
Thats unironically not a valid argument.
Money has nothing to do with freedoms or rights, or philosophy in general but its nice to see the brainwashing is as strong as ever.

Shame we can never have a BS thread without this derail.

>>384664756
Are you retarded anon? tell me, what do you think globalism is?

>>384664756
>http://capitalismmagazine.com/2002/08/franciscos-money-speech/

and yes, nigga, I do expect you to read all of this shit

>>384664976
>what do you think globalism is?
Its one """unified""", borderless nation. But in reality its a totalitarian dictatorship by a cabal killing and demonizing the public into thinking nationalism is bad and everyone should accept everyone and not have any self-identity whether personal, or cultural.

>>384665010
We solved the money issue nearly a century ago, but thats no good for globalism.

>>384664450
>>384664756

How can people be so retarded/guillable/misguided.

>>384665156
Wow, anon, you are right, the globalism I was talking about is this huge all consuming national boogeyman led by (((soros)))

>>384665227
Tell we where and why im wrong.

>>384661540
Your life's dream was to have a place where the wops could do as they pleased with the free market. Andrew Ryan's problem was that he believed in a free market, but he believed in a free market because he believed he'd be the best at it. Turns out he wasn't.

>>384665395
Free market doesnt imply a power charge though.
Still, i completely blame him for letting it get all fucked up.

>>384661805
>Japan was isolationist for quite some time and survived just fine.
Yes and it existed under the Tokugawa Shogunate as a highly stratified system where those on top could do whatever the fuck they wanted to those below them. The Satsuma Rebellion in 1877 wasn't about keeping the pride of the samurai like Last Samurai put it, it was so they could keep the right to chop off the head of any peasant they wanted without consequence.

>>384665287
Here
>Its one """unified""", borderless nation. But in reality its a totalitarian dictatorship by a cabal killing and demonizing the public into thinking nationalism is bad and everyone should accept everyone and not have any self-identity whether personal, or cultural.

Why you're wrong
>the operation or planning of economic and foreign policy on a global basis.

>>384664063
What's the difference? I'm not the guy you're arguing with, I just wish to know

The game says it itself, he couldn't build the better mousetrap, and that really got to him.

>>384665575
>>the operation or planning of economic and foreign policy on a global basis.
its literally been chugging along since 1945.
If you really believe we arent a soft-globalist world for the most part, you're deluded.
>>384665636
Because Globalism can technically operate on anything from communism to full on socialist.
But capitalism is just the most feasible.

>>384665743
I think I get it. Thanks anon

>>384665743
I never said we didn't live in globalism, my main point was that capitalism thrives from globalism, and rapture shot itself in the foot by being capitalist, but not open to trade.

>>384666060
>but not open to trade.
Ryan's W H O L E point of Rapture was to get away from the world because he was disgusted with it and thought it was headed for ruin.

Ryan's big mistake was not budging on his ideals and having a nearly-free market with restrictions and anti-trust laws so someone like fontaine cant garner his warchest like he did. And obviously not having better secret police.

Its a shame we live in a world that makes a real Rapture impossible.

>>384657994
The thing that I was most pleased to see in this game was that when everyone went amoral and evil that the game also had evil artists as well and didn't just do the usual scientist have no ethics trope.

>>384666241
But capitalism does its best with trade.
Like how the lady in pauper's drop said, it would have all been well and fine if they weren't all tugging on the same dollar.

>>384666375
Money is bound to ruin any society. It's a fundamentally flawed system. Rapture opening up to trade would have given its location to the world and gotten subverted by American, Russian, and who ever else wanted a piece.