Are QTEs really all that bad?

File: CocoCrashed.jpg (43KB, 336x347px) Image search: [Google]

43KB, 336x347px

>>384651308
If done right, no.

If done badly, yes.

Yes unless they're actual, consistent game mechanics like God Hand's button mashing sequences but at that point you can hardly call them QTEs.

When they are optional, flashy finishing moves, like God of War, not at all.

When they are the culmination of a dozen hours of otherwise subjectively enjoyable gameplay, like Shadow of War, then absolutely fucking not.

File: LS+RS.png (59KB, 300x168px) Image search: [Google]

59KB, 300x168px

>>384651308
GoW 3 had the best QTEs, prove me wrong

>>384653048
I prove you wrong.

>>384651565
fpbp

Yes, they are. I'm sorry, but this includes Asura's Wrath, which was a piece of crap designed to be a cinematic movie you could mash buttons through because the prompts weren't even that hard.

>>384651308
No. But you have to use them effectively. The point is to do something that players normally cannot do with standard controls, while not taking away complete control. Use this too much and it might as well just be a cutscene.

>>384651308
>Shit Tier
X - CIRCLE - X - TRIANGLE - CIRCLE - L2
>I Guess Tier
<(L) (R)> - MOTION CONTROLLER TO THE LEFT - ^(L) (R)^ - L1+R1
>Passably Entertaining Tier
Maneuver enemy to area - RAPID FIRE X - CIRCLE + L2
>Now We're Talking Tier
HAMMER EVERYTHING AT ONCE TO WAIL THE LIVING SHIT OUT OF YOUR FOE AT LIGHTNING SPEED AFTER BEATING THEM LEGITIMATELY ALREADY
>Secret Final Tier
Post-boss posing in Viewtiful Joe

>>384651308
Any game that has QTEs during cutscenes or for the final boss is automatically shit.

File: images (2).jpg (8KB, 236x214px) Image search: [Google]

8KB, 236x214px

>>384651308
I think it depends on how frequently they show up in a game. and how much time they give you to react.
Dead space handled them ok imo because they're integrated into the gameplay, and when they do appear in cutscenes they give you enough time to recover even if you weren't really playing attention. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eDL9peZxeTs

File: 1498702747192.gif (3MB, 270x221px) Image search: [Google]

3MB, 270x221px

>>384653095
shit

If its one time and its some crazy holy shit freak out and spam x not to die shit im ok with it.

Depends on the game and the era it was released in. Asura's Wrath was fun as a spectacle and presented well, but the QTEs didn't fit the basic gameplay and there's the big trap in using them.

Shenmue is more or less the grandfather of QTEs, but its action segments are used as a storytelling device. It fits with everything else in the game such as asking any schmuck for clues on how to progress, or having to spend more time fucking around with forklifts because Ryo has a chronic gachapon addiction. Ultimately, Shenmue's all about interactivity. The QTEs give you an in-story opportunity to watch Ryo get the shit kicked out of him whilst still progressing the game, unlike Asura's Wrath where failing the very easy QTEs at all means you can't beat the game from what I remember. This approach gives you the chance to grow to like Ryo as a character, because storytelling 101 tells us that we admire someone more for trying than succeeding. Right up until you get the bad end for being completely useless at beating the game within a reasonable time frame where Lan Di shows up to murder you, anyway. Shenmue's approach could've been absolute trash regardless of storytelling merit, if not for the fact that the proper fights are free-flow fighting with no QTEs at all. As it stands, I'd still say it's an example of them being done correctly.

Yeah, because its the same concept as the "awesome button". Its just a way to entertain retards by having something exciting happen.

I will admit, it has worked on me in the past but I recognize that I am a retard myself. I'm 22 and somehow I've never kissed a girl.

>>384651308
QTE's are a sign of uncreative or bad game design.
There's always a better option.

>>384652851
Basically this, plus how well its inserted in the game.

MGRR is QTE heavy, but they integrate well in the game. Using the move button for movement QTEs is actually a major one, dunno why people insist in using shit like X to run foward in every other game.

Asura's Wrath is a big off liner too. It is basically an anime you need to keep pressing play, and yet its amazing. As an anime.

How bout instead of telling me to mash a random button you tell me in the tutorial which button is block or roll or attack and I hit that of my own volition when I feel the need to. Eh?

>>384658041
Nah that would be too much work for the developer.

qtes should only be used as a reward for playing the game well. Like, if you block or parry whatever hard to block or parry attack or if you deal a shit ton of damage you should get the option for a QTE to nail the boss even harder.

>>384658527
The problem is that following button prompts onscreen is inherently unfun so it can't be a "reward." The better option for your scenario would be to have either predefined methods of punishment or have the punishment animation play out without the required qte.

>>384651308
Bad QTE
>"Press button(s)"
>do nothing
>game over / still waiting for you to press them buttons / ZERO effect on gameplay or plot
>be a sheep and press the button(s)
>ZERO effect on gameplay or plot

Good QTE
>"Press button(s)"
>don't press them
>gameplay/plot changes.
>be a sheep and press the button(s)
>rest of gameplay/plot changes depending on how well you timed them or how many you missed.

>>384651565
what do you consider good QTE?

>>384651308
They can be satisfying. Mass Effect 1/2 and RE4 had good ones.

File: 20170710235918_1.jpg (378KB, 1920x1080px) Image search: [Google]

378KB, 1920x1080px

>>384659938

>>384652851
This.

A recent bad example for me was Until Dawn. "Your choices matter" when what they actually meant was "but QTEs matter even more!".

>>384656042
Also this. QTEs are basically the developer saying "we'd sure like to do this cool thing, but we can't think of how to integrate it into the gameplay."

>>384651308
>game shows you doing cool shit instead of creating a system where you can do it yourself

It's just a cutscene with fail states.

>>384651308
They should exist to highten intensity, to keep the player on their toes during a stressful action sequence-- but also forgiving to the point where the player doesn't have to restart the entire sequence for missing a button

File: 1500179659825.png (462KB, 432x504px) Image search: [Google]

462KB, 432x504px

>>384659938
Kingdom Hearts 2FM's more difficult boss fights

Basically the QTE's were all predictable and could be provoked/set up by the player and felt like a natural part of the combat. Too bad kiddies playing on standard mode ruined the reputation for Reaction Commands and now the series has ditched them

>>384661083
There are certainly bad QTEs but you can't seriously think that things you are actual able to do in the game would be cooler than some potential QTEs.

>>384662516
Give me one good reason why you the creative forces put into a cutscene shouldn't be used to create equally exciting gameplay opportunities instead. Developers should strive to turn an event into actual gameplay.

>>384662516
QTEs aren't fun. If something happens outside the context of normal gameplay it's always better to just show the cutscene. But that's only if the developer really can't find a way to express it with gameplay.

I believe that when the developer has the option between an overly epic fight that can only be done with a cutscene/qte or a less epic fight using the primary game engine, he should always choose the later.

>>384663227
I think games like Metal Gear Rising are able to add a few nice moments that can only be depicted well through a QTE and would have gained comparatively little if they instead focused on the combat more.

File: shenmue2.jpg (33KB, 581x473px) Image search: [Google]

33KB, 581x473px

>>384651308
QTEs only work when failing one shows the results.
like when you fuck up a QTE in shenmue during a bar fight and get hit in the dick with a chair.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pwkdCOXKJPU&t=3m48s
shenmue did QTEs right

>>384651308

I have the reaction speed of a slug and having to suddenly abandon the established control scheme and gameplay to hit completely random and unrelated button combinations fucking sucks donkey balls

It's different with games like OP where QTEs are the main course, but I don't pick up such games in the first place.

>>384662516
>cooler
Maybe. But doing shit during gameplay is more fun.

>>384659768
>Fahrenheit was a good example of QTE

>>384663507
There are a lot of garbage QTEs jammed into a game for no real reason but I believe that a game like Yakuza 0 has QTEs that are fun where you get a specific continuation of the scene changed when you fail that are also satisfying when you do succeed as well as some satisfying other types. An example of what I mean would be about :50 seconds in of this. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pkXy8JvfxQA

File: essence of getting fucked.gif (2MB, 403x226px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 403x226px

>>384663572
I like how Yakuza does it. Do it right and you get a cool quick cutscene and some damage. Fail and your character eats shit and takes damage. But either way you don't instantly win or lose and get back into the actual combat before it gets too stale.

>>384656042
>>384660841
Something even worse than QTEs is "character doing a thing in a cutscene"
Like, imagine what impact would it had on your younger mind if YOU were the one shooting the JACKPOT! in DMC3's finale.

File: killing larry.jpg (100KB, 1280x720px) Image search: [Google]

100KB, 1280x720px

>>384659938
Excuse the lets player shit

Having the player repeated press the button to pull Lily off so Kenny can kill her father was pretty fucking hard to watch and do. QTEs can be used to increase the drama in a scene by forcing the player to be actively participating in it.

>>384663917

>get thrown at a car
>lose barely 5% of HP

"Doing right" isn't something I'd say in this context.

File: essence of getting shot in the face.gif (1MB, 428x241px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 428x241px

>>384664419
It scales by difficulty in Yakuza, see the video right above that post to see how much it can hurt on harder difficulty.

Also, Kiryu's a man made of fucking iron.

>>384651308
They are the apex of modern gaming, the transition from game design and gameplay to scene design and movie making.

File: 1479803582995.png (2MB, 900x900px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 900x900px

>miss fast instadeath qte
>alright ill be ready for it this time
>they change the key

>>384651308
Yes? I would rather have Asura without QTEs.

>>384651308
It has to be expressed through actual reflex and speed rather than just being a way for the player to interact with the game just enough to call the game a game. The intended purpose of QTE is to engage your adrenaline to the actions going on in the game.

>>384664629
90% of the shit of the game wouldn't be possible without.
>but a developer that was good could
No developer ever did that, ever. It was either nothing or a cutscene. QTEs are an in between.

>>384659938
If the gameplay itself holds up
I thunk God of War has good qtes

>>384665438
>thunk
Anyway that qte button mash at the end of 3 is still one of the most satisfying endings ever.

File: maxresdefault.jpg (114KB, 1280x720px) Image search: [Google]

114KB, 1280x720px

>>384651308
not if you're in control of what button to push next

>>384664909
>90% of the shit of the game wouldn't be possible without.

Would be possible if devs did it right.
Think RE4 fight with Krauser.
There are prompts so it is a QTE3.14, but if you would remove the prompts and told player which button to duck and attack beforehand the fight would look the same, just without QTE.

If you mean all those cool pummelling animations then look MGS4 ending.
When you were fighting ocelot your attack and movement were still same buttons on the controller but the way it looked changed.

Same in Ashura, just make it so attack button is wild fist hurricane one minute when attacking small foes and slower powerful fists when attacking bigger and stronger enemy.

Your jump would be regular jump when just jumping, soaring lunge when looking at enemy in the sky and something else if you want to ground stomp.

There are ways and means to do same shit Asura did but with actual gameplay but since no one cares, QTE is the only thing you get.

>>384665596
That's a good one, but there's also that one in that psp game where he has to button mash to pull his daughter off of him because she won't stop hugging him. That kinda stuck with me for some reason.

>>384665651
I fucking love that game

expected shit and got typing of the fast food

>>384665834
i like to call it "tactical QTE"

>>384659938
Until Dawn has good QTE

>>384665670
...so why didn't they do that instead of using QTEs? You just said "did it right" but then contradicted yourself by telling how they DIDN'T do it right.

I don't even understand why you go and mention MGS4 Ocelot considering there's no actual difference: cutscenes, cinematic angles, a section of combat, QTEs up the ass.

Plus Asura does actually use the same buttons in 90% of the QTEs, Y is for stronger moves, B is for pummeling, X is to shoot and A is always jump.

There's no way to make shit like Wyzen's fight through actual gameplay and not making it look/play like shit. No developer ever did that and no one ever will.