Where should I spend my money?

>WoW
>or japanese WoW clone with better graphics

Neither

Got nostalgia for WoW because you've played it before? If so, WoW.
If not, neither.

It's basically WoW vs Better than WoW in every objective way.

Pick WoW if you've played it before and liked it, so you can see just how awful things have become before you switch to FF

>>384621224
Fast vs slow gameplay
Open world vs instances
Bad story vs good story
Grind vs grind
Fast level vs terrible level
Bad PvP vs Shit PvP

Pick your poison. Also most people would agree that the skill level of the playerbases goes in WoW's favor

>>384621848
Fuck off Yoshi shill that isn't true in the slightest

>>384622073
i don't know what is what

>>384622239
First is WoW second is FF

>>384621224
I would say WoW simply because FFXIV has fucking jack shit. I can't think of anything that FFXIV has that WoW doesn't. At least WoW doesn't gate you from latest expension with 150+ hours worth of quests and the world's worst leveling experience known to man.

>>384622073
>WoW or FFXIV have good story

>>384621224
Neither.

MMOs are sadly dead because they've been doing the same thing for 20 years. I know you think you want to play, but just move on. You'll thank yourself later for not doing it.

>>384622239
It's all wrong on both sides.

>>384622384
FF14 story is actually pretty good If you ask me. It's FF tactics level

>>384622524
Go ahead prove me wrong I'll wait

>>384622073
XIV is no more instanced than WoW, and both games open world content is mostly irrelevant.

>>384623050
Dude FF is instances entirely. Wow is almost entirely open world. In WoW you can move seamlessly from zone to zone. In FF there is loadsreens for different areas in the fucking hub city

FF is the better game, but the levelling will kill you if you don't buy a boost.
I don't know what wow levelling is like these days because I just use the boost that you get with each expansion.

If you're not interested in pointless non-content aka levelling aka wasting your fucking time and you just want to get to the stuff that people are actually experiencing together aka the whole point of mmos then the buy in for wow is like half the buy in for xiv.

How do I access XIV's dungeon finder equivalent? I don't like world grinding.

>>384623201
Zone instances does not mean a game is instanced. Thats like calling RO instanced. If the game world can be shared by everyone on a realm then its not instanced.

>>384623201
The only difference is that wow uses dynamic loading. Wow is just as instanced as FF is.

>>384622537
I played through HW and there wasn't a single point where I thought the story was good and I don't mean "good for an mmo"

>>384623378
>>384623494
Semantics anyway the point is if OP likes loading screens and a smaller world pick FF.

>>384623362
You have to unlock all the dungeons as you progress through the story or as you find the quests that lead to the dungeons. Don't try and avoid the MSQ because it gates all kinds of shit.

It starts at like level 15.

I used to enjoy WoW lore, but after TBC (And really after classic with the creation of Na'ru and goats on a spaceship), that was a no go. But I still enjoyed the MMO gameplay, so that left FFXIV, which thankfully is made by Japan and whose story wouldn't be consistent anyway, making it in this case a positive.

>>384621224
Something not in a shitty genre.

>>384623709
That sounds like complete bullshit no thanks I am going back to GW2

>>384623678
FF's world is only smaller because it doesn't have twelve years worth of baggage.

>>384623678
Loading screens shouldnt even be a factor when choosing an MMO. Also its a little unfair to compare world sizes of a game with 2 expansions to one with 7.

>>384623802
Back to CoD*

>>384623840
>>384623846
The fucking two Vanilla continents are larger than XIV's game world currently.

>>384622073
Forgot to add
Limited class customization vs zero class customization
Proc based/priority based rotation vs static rotations

>>384622073
As someone who plays both, you are clearly a memester and you don't really know what you are talking about.

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>>384623802
Both games have the same garbage world grind issue:
>Go to lv 10 quest arena
>KEK LV 20 WORLD QUEST EVENT SPAWNED ON IT GLHF FAGGOT
>20 min timer
Fuck XIV for inventing it and fuck GW2 harder for thinking this was a good idea.

>>384624081
>XIV invented dynamic events

M8...

>>384623846
>it's a little unfair to compare a game about exploration and finding timesinks with another game about the same things but that has 1/3 of the content

>>384623931
Nips are notoriously shitty programmers. Over the smaller world size though, I would call out their netcode more.

>>384624160
They invented the monotonous lolsorandumb design of them other trash MMOs adopted.

>>384624236
With your mindset you might as well only play the oldest, most fleshed out MMO in history and ignore anything new that comes out since it cant compete in size and will just die since nobody is playing it.

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>>384621224

Blizzard has the financials to keep WoW going. But FFXIV is just currently better all round and has a good forseeable future at the moment unlike WoW's most recent expansions.

>>384624236
If that's what you think mmos are about then ok.

>>384624369
Im not sure where you're getting this from but Rift and Warhammer even more so had way more emphasis on dynamic events than both games, and they were far more invasive in those titles that the occasional FATE on a quest area you're bitching about. In Rift if you ignored zone invasion events then they would turn into elites and just kill every quest hub in the zone.

>>384623840
he's right though, the 'instances' in wow are generally much larger and you barely instance into anything besides dungeons

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>>384623678
>>384623931
>>384624319

>>384624832
Nah they dropped it and nothing improved at all with Stormblood. It was all a bunch of bullshit lies. Anytime anyone asks for literally anything quality of life or UI improvements its now "So sorry its server limitations please understand" like their servers (which they just moved to a new supposedly better datacenter) are made of cardboard and would burst into flames if they changed anything at all in the game. It was a miracle we got 40 more inventory space.

>>384624832
The PS3 has no affect on developing netcode or a functioning web service for the game.

WoW and FFXIV perfectly highlight the divide between eastern and western devs. On the side of the west, you have creative programming leading to better optimizations and improvements in the game and the rest is done in the laziest, bare minimum way possible. On the east, countless man hours are poured into developing a great looking game that runs like shit because Japan is unwilling to learn any programming tricks or think outside the box, which is why you get a sluggish game that can't handle player input more than every .8 seconds.

Seriously, out of all the things FFXIV brings to the table, optimization is not one of them and likely never will be.

>>384624023
Only like two DPS classes have a static rotation in XIV, the rest are all proc and priority based.

>>384625056
when they say server limitations they don't mean the physical machines but the code they are running on. A lot of the game's server side functions are heaped on top of the shitty 1.0 code still. I'm not making an excuse for them, because they should have fixed this by now since its literally preventing them from making needed improvements to the game, but it's not a hardware issue its a nips cant program issue.

>>384625847
They will never fix it and itll be the death of the game because they cant update anything.

>>384626073
They will have to eventually to avoid said death of game, but they will be real fucking stubborn about it because its a huge time investment and square gives them no budget to run on. It's really fucked up because its their single most profitable title by a landslide but they keep shrinking the team and pouring all the profits into Nomura's shitty vanity projects.

>>384625490
It really is a shame that Japan consistently insists on reinventing the wheel when coming across all programming issues.

>>384625596
Are any of them truly static? I feel like they all have some sort of proc to them now, even if it's just something small like Monk's Chakra.

>>384626384
Dragoon and Samurai are both pretty much completely static, neither has procs and there is an objectively correct order to do everything in that's really straight forward and won't change based on minor differences in skillspeed unlike NIN. Summoner might as well be too, since its only proc is just an enhanced version of its spam for damage when DotS are up spell.

>>384626384
It's partially due to how Japan treats software development. They see it like a factory to churn out product rather than a living entity that requires development, testing, analysis, and more development.

>>384626576
So Dragoon and Samurai truly static, Monk and Summoner practically static since their procs don't really change much

>>384626868
I'd call monk priority based due to the splitting combo system and amount of buffs, debuffs, and DoTs it keeps up. In the extreme long-run its optimal rotation is mappable in a static list but its so many button presses long and can be more easily summarized by explaining its priority system (simple as it is) and because unlike the other classes disruption of its ability to press buttons will change how it returns to its rotation a lot more.

>>384621224
On a gun and one bullet.

>>384627118
I should clarify/add- this actually makes it easier to learn than jobs with a static rotation, and now that I think about it more probably applies to samurai too with how sen work.

>>384621224
Stormblood is newer?

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Neither.

WoW has some good ideas it's playing with, but it refuses to move on from some archaic concepts. It's also lacking some stables in current MMOs like housing and good character creation. They're more focused on adding more to a massive, outdated world instead of bringing it back to life and making it relevant.

FFXIV is just boring. It's a very polished game that does everything well, but doesn't do anything new or amazingly. If you've played MMOs before, you'll be bored in a few hours, and no, it doesn't get better. The game is too safe and doesn't have anything going for it other than clean visuals. The story is below average for an FF story, there's little to no reason to play with other people, and leveling is worse than a chore, it's a job. I have yet to find a good reason to play FFXIV that's not sitting in hubs shitposting in linkshells.

Play literally anything else, they all have more going for it than those two. Except BDO. BDO is probably the worst MMO in quite a long while. It should most definitely be on the 'avoid at all costs' unless you enjoy playing a shitty management minigame and afking as the main gameplay behind your MMO.

Only when you stop rewarding devs for pushing out these shitty WoW clones and eastern souless grindfests, will they be forced to actually move the genre forward. Until then, you have only yourself to blame.

>>384621848

This.

>>384621671
FPBP

>>384622384

>I can't think of anything that FFXIV has that WoW doesn't.

You are deaf, blind and illiterate.

FFXIV has one of the best soundtracks ever made for any medium. WoW has ear cancer.

FFXIV has a solid story, WoW has a garbage story ruined by Metzen.

FFXIV has beautiful visual effects and designs, WoW looks like total shit.

>>384621848
The only thing FF does better than WoW, objectively is visuals and maaaaybe music. Though WoW has some real gems in there too.

And the visuals are outdated at this point anyway, there are much better looking mmos out there anyway. Everything else, WoW numerically and qualitatively trumps FFXIV in every single way.

You're probably just a weeb who's never played an MMO before, or one of those autists who blames Blizzard for the fact that they grow up and can't be amazed anymore at what was, quite honestly, a pretty shitty MMO back then.

>>384621848

It's more like, "Do you wanna play WoW?" Or
"Do you wanna play a Better looking WoW that's also ten times more grindy?"

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So, which MMO OP should play, since WoW and Stormblood are both shit?

>>384626868

Sad state of affairs for SMN which used to be a very think-on-your-feet kind of job that required actual brains and not just memorizing a rotation.

It's still a high skill ceiling job but only because the rotation you have to memorize is like 200 buttons long and involves a lot of ignoring cooldowns you'd expect to use immediately until the right moment.

Do you play to raid or erp

if former play wow

if latter play ffxiv

>>384624456
Considering WoW is doing considerably better than FFXIV despite being one year into an xpac and the latter being a month or two is indicative of the future of the two games.

>>384627717
FFXIV is not grindy what the hell are you talking about.
Unless you are into crafting.

>>384627925
WoW has more stockholm'd captives than FFXIV has players, but that's only because of how huge it was back in its prime.

>>384621224

Obviously FFXIV, only a massive nostalgiafag would play the prototype over the perfected version. WoW's story, writing, music, raids/boss fights and visuals are all shit, and FF14's are all great. Easy as hell choice.

WoW is a fucking joke and is only carried by autists who have played it since they were 12.

>>384627787
Ffxi on nasomi private server :^)

>>384627787
Everquest on agnarr. Or just give up on MMOs. They are all shit right now and the only thing on the horizon is Korean shit and kickstarter scams. If you have an MMO addiction right now its pure hell. It's like if you were a heroin addict and one company cornered the market on heroin ran everyone else out of business then decided they didn't want to make heroin anymore they just wanted to work on more casual drugs.

There is seriously no where you can buy heroin, I mean play MMOs, now.

>2.5sec gcd

what drug do you guys shoot up to stay awake, bros? I have to smoke meth constantly to stay awake while playing ff14

at least I'm not playing wow though, right? yeah, fuck blizzard

>>384627560
>best soundtracks ever made for any medium

It's not even top 50. And I like FF music. FFXIV's music is largely forgettable and uninspired, with one or two good tracks.

>Solid story
It's really not. There's nothing new or interesting about it. Aaah, you're the chosen one to save our world, now run a million fetch quests whilst you drive this rebellion forward. It's boring and been done a million times before. WoW's is not much better, but it has history behind it, at the very least.

>Beautiful visuals and effects.
I wouldn't go that far, but it definitely looks better than WoW by quite a bit. Still, if you're playing an MMO for visuals, there are plenty of others that look better.

>>384627914
>what is moonguard

The better question is how furry do you want your ERP.

WoW is unbelievably bad and has been this way since about ~10 years or so. FFXIV shits all over it in almost every single way, the only thing that's truly terrible is the slow as fuck early game which can take quite some time to get out of.

>>384627914
Funnily enough, WoW has one of the healthiest ERP communities I've seen in any MMO.

FFXIV is full of cliques doing nothing in Linsa and good luck finding people roleplaying in the world.

get Elder Scrolls Online

>>384628287
>Still, if you're playing an MMO for visuals, there are plenty of others that look better.

Name one.

>>384628339
>which can take quite some time to get out of
Doesn't it take like a day to reach max level?

>>384628146
They probably sleep during the 100+ hour required MSQ to make up for it.

>>384628339
>FFXIV shits all over it in almost every single way

Not endgame.
>16 days before WF 9/9 ToS, 5 days later and still only 1 guild 9/9

>less than 24 before several statics already 4/4 Omega Savage

>>384624081
>FFXIV for inventing it
>GW2 for copying it
>GW2 came out before ARR and 1.0 didn't have FATEs

really makes you think

>>384628489
if you already have a max level, sure

if it's your first, then it's gonna be a while

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>>384628287
Dumbest post in the entire thread.

>>384624081
>Fuck XIV for inventing it
Guild wars 2 came out before 2.0 retard, and GW2 copied it from RIFT which copied it from Warhammer online.

>>384628535
>what is Rift
>what is WAR
i'm sure there are others before those but they're the earliest MMOs i can think of

>>384628523
i-itll get harder anon, j-just wait for s-super savage

>>384627787
BDO
>bunch of spergs spouting buzzwords and memes
Deal with it, I'm having fun.

>>384628560
Literally took me like 3 days not even playing like an autist. Don't even try and claim this game takes any meaningful time to reach max level

>>384628523
>some poopsockers clear this content, that means I cleared it
>also forgetting about the strict gear requirements in WoW to artifically halt progression

Dumb WoWbabbie.

>>384628663
what are you arguing

>>384627560
>WoW has ear cancer.
Ambient zone/city music is about the same IMO. WoW doesn't have special themes for every raid boss but that probably has to do with WoW having 3-4x as many encounters.

>>384621224
Ignore both options and play destiny 2

>>384628724
>strict gear requirements in WoW to artifically halt progression

>"I am a retard who has never heard of splitraiding"

>>384628287

It's fucking obvious that your experience with FFXIV is limited to using a jump potion and playing Stormblood. Just stop posting.

FF14 has more 10/10 songs than most FF games have songs on their soundtracks. This is completely unquestionable. The soundtrack is also the largest ever made and has a guinness record for it. Stormblood, as it stands, contains only maybe three of the 10/10 songs (Lakshmi's theme, the main theme and Kugane's theme), and is a step down from the earlier work, but it also only makes up a tiny slice of the overall soundtrack, which you clearly haven't heard 99% of.

>>384628791
>literally half the ambient music is just generic lowkey orchestra stuff you can barely hear

Truly amazing and catchy.

>>384628450
Blade and Soul.
BDO.
Hell, even Guild Wars 2 looks better in a lot of places.

Go compare Divinity's Reach with any city in FFXIV. And that's cities. FFXIV's areas are fucking actual wastelands full of nothing but mobs roaming around and nothing else.

>>384628146
It's honestly fine.

>>384628724
You don't need to be a poopsocker to clear O4S. The gear the people who killed it day 1 isn't miles better than any decent player who has been gearing for the past couple weeks. It's just execution. It's not like they are running 4-5x splits like people pushing WF in WoW are required to do.

>>384628629
The story is pretty bad. The main NPC is a literal retard and you get a lot of filler that goes nowhere with Doma. It also doesn't help that the animations are mostly get emotes and it has regressed back to the whole just stand around and talk poor politics like the Waking Sands in 2.0.

Please come up with a better rebuttal than just "lol no your post is dumb".

>>384628919
Hey now, I love that Yanxia theme.

>>384628629
You sure told me. You're really making FFXIV players look really smart there, with all your amazing arguments.

>FFXIV is better
>No it isn't, and here's why
>ur dumb

>>384628952
That's expected of a mmo that is mostly instances content... between that and zones having absolutely no replay value the only places people will hang out is towns and whatever new zones the latest update adds

>>384623378

Technically you're wrong at the moment, because all Stormblood zones have multiple instances to avoid congestion.

>>384628671
I'd play it if there were more than 10 armors in the game and everyone didn't have neon hair.

And, you know, there was combat gameplay beyond aoe farming mobs for several hours straight.

>>384628952
>Blade and Soul
Hahahaha, no.
>BDO
Close but still no, it's just too bland and stuffed with overblown shaders and bloom.
>Guild Wars 2
This one I can actually agree on, the cities in that game looked amazing.

>>384628919
>lakshmi's cringey ass vocals and dumb lyrics make it 10/10
Anon I have over 10k hours and that's bullshit.
Lochs daytime is god tier though.

>>384628919
>FF14 has more 10/10 songs than most FF games have songs on their soundtracks

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RHkMfJBDFZM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8JevOJeRzIk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xdV_bzJgRxE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=knV-5VciTTQ

wow fucking amazing songs

>>384628927
>i don't adjust my sounds to hear the music better, this means it's bad music

FFXIV players, everyone.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-r7iz-9v9bA

This isn't even a particularly good one.

>>384627560
How many layers of denial are you on?

>>384629091
>>FFXIV is better
>>No it isn't, and here's why
>let me just pull shit out of my ass and make ridiculous claims which prove that I used a jump potion, can't refute this complete bullshit huh well tough break kid heh

>>384621736

anybody who played wow when it was actually good would never want to touch it in its current state. you would actually get more nostalgia from xiv

>>384629221

It's a great composition even if you don't like the genre, anon, and lyrics literally don't affect the musical quality of a song.

>>384629324
Are these supposed to be bad? Because aside from maybe Shiva they're hype as fuck. It's a game OST, the music is supposed to accompany the visuals, not to be listened to while you're riding the bus to the gay club you fucking fruit.

>>384629138
Yes, and that's bad design.

Which we should criticize FFXIV for.

>>384629436
We'll have to agree to disagree; I think the lyrics being included in a song make it just as important to the overall work and its quality as instrumentation. I'll definitely grant you that its composition is fantastic, though. The blending of mid-eastern and Indian motifs was neat to hear.

Real best FF music coming through
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=T4-kctom-nE
How can xiv fags compete?

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WoW.

I was excited for Stormblood. Like, a lot. I figured maybe they'd introduce some changes to the combat system after teasing a "rework" that made it more fun. Every class is dumber than before and the game still plays like you've stuck your dick in molasses and you're very slowly trying to get it out before fire ants chew on it. Omega was eh, and 4 bosses + the same 4 bosses on HM do not in any way provide enough content for six months, which is the turnaround time it takes for them to put out the next "set" of the main raid.

Sure, there's the 24 man babby mode that has four bosses that comes out in 4.1, but it's the equivalent of LFR.

I went back to WoW and I'm enjoying it way more. I can casually PVP and enjoy myself vs slamming my dick in a car door attempting to make the japanese spaghetti code cooperate and there's tons of raid content to do (yes, people go back and do emerald nightmare / nighthold, there's still good gear in there that can titanforge and it's fast AP) along with Mythic / Mythic + dungeons. There's usually a plethora of things for you to actually do if you don't just complain that WoW has no content because you do your daily heroic + LFR.

Go with WoW. It may be uglier, but it's still got more heart and more fun.

>>384629346
>This isn't even a particularly good one.

You're sure right about that one, shill.

>>384629362
Keep up the ad hominems. You're winning this argument for me.

Or just admit you're wrong and move on.

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>>384621224
Here.

why is Legion never on sale

>>384629138
>>384629523
I've never played an MMO where old zones keep being alive as much as in FFXIV.

Is lord of the rings online still a good game?

>>384629182
>I'd play it if there were more than 10 armors
Valid complaint. I kinda like it since I had enough gear autism over the years. Upgrading your stuff has a certain charm to it as well.
>neon hair
So far I haven't really seen people with that, except in screenshots of people trying to make hideous characters.
>And, you know, there was combat gameplay beyond aoe farming mobs for several hours straight.
Well at least it's not tab targeting single mobs for several hours straight.

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>>384629518
>they're hype as fuck.
>the music is supposed to accompany the visuals

And they completely clash with the bosses. Nothing about these songs compliment the characters, the lore, or the mechanics at all.

>>384629324

The last two of those are masterworks and could have been top selling commercial album singles if they were released by some famous name in the music industry.

Lots of people like the other two as well, I don't, but the first of them is for the last phase of a fight that also has a 10/10 song for the first phase, and the second song is one of five different songs used for its fight.

In other words, even though you cherrypicked, you still couldn't discredit FF14's soundtrack even in the slightest.

>>384629649
>it's the ad hominem guy again

Every thread, right on time to shit on FFXIV with claims that are obvious bullshit to everyone who actually played the game, rending the entire argument null.

>>384629667
unironically this

>>384629358

Name one thing in my post that isn't objective truth. I'll prepare the laugh track.

>>384629523
How is that not a description of wow?

>>384629570
Legit shill. "More heart" in a Blizzard game, fuck off man.

>>384629936
Not an argument.

>>384629762
I'll grant you that for Sephirot, as it's an odd fit, but literally every other example perfectly fits the boss, especially Sophia. Lyrics are even lore-related. You don't know your shit very well.

>>384629762
>And they completely clash with the bosses. Nothing about these songs compliment the characters, the lore, or the mechanics at all.

Are you fucking high? Most of the songs are literally sung from the perspective of the boss, stop talking bullshit.

>>384630024
>lyrics for a game boss fight

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>>384629570
Not to mention all the other shit WoW has that you can do, namely pet battling, crafting that isn't completely fucking useless, timewalking, brawler's guild and a million different forms of PVP.

But people are going to keep talking shit and running PoTD for the 100th time because they want to be a catgirl, and big bad blizzard ruined their childhood.

The game is better in almost every single way than the early expansions. Grow up and accept that you were a fucking stupid kid and were amazed at your first big MMO, not WoW.

>>384629806
>have been top selling commercial album singles if they were released by some famous name in the music industry

Yeah Sephirot's theme was clearly stolen by a bad rock band that had a few minutes of fame in the 90s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lsV500W4BHU

>>384630102
Oh, you're just baiting. Gotcha. On your way then.

>>384629727
Really now? Because I've leveled two character in FFXIV to max and I bet I saw less than 100 players total questing in all those hours.

It's probably FFXIV's worst part. Fucking GW2 would make you go insane, if that's true.

>people complaining about ffxiv leveling

Are you fucking serious? Jesus Christ, did you guys even play MMOs back in the day? FFXIV leveling is pretty tame. Fuck you, you're the reason WoW leveling went to shit.

>>384630164
It's WoWbabbies, they get mad as fuck every time some other MMO does things way better than their old turd, it happened with Rift too.

>>384630059
Shiva's wasn't neither was ramuhs, garuda's doesn't really have lyrics.

Lakshmi's maybe?

Don't mind me just posting more of the greatest mmo music in existence
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4pSw7RbcAcs

>>384630024
The lyrics are so hamfisted and end up generally contradicting what the Primal has done in the story. Name dropping key features of a primal doesn't make it good at all.

>>384629894
XIV soundtrack is good, but not that amazing. WoW also has good music. Quality of music is also subjective.
The story is just another "You're the chosen one!" shit that no one likes. It has some good stories, but in general people are happy about just getting it done, because of how much of a chore it is.
XIV has better graphics than WoW, but if you have to compare your graphics against a 12 year old game, you're really reaching.
Honestly though, XIV is literally just a WoW clone for people that hate WoW, and you're really proving that right.

>>384630308
Hence his use of the word 'most', anon.

>>384630253
You either played on a shitty server or are flat out lying. "Two characters" sounds especially suspicious because no one in FFXIV would use that phrasing.

>>384629903
Because WoW did it nearly two decades ago and has actually changed and improved, even if isn't great in it's current state.

FFXIV is reveling in mediocrity and praising it, to the point Yoshi tells players to fuck off and play other games instead of giving them content, and the players side with them.

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>>384629324

>"Here let me show you why FF14's soundtrack is bad"
>Posts a whole bunch of great songs

You're not helping your cause here. In fact, I'll have to consider your post a spectacular failure.

>>384630253
Ffxiv is not really a mmo it's mostly a single player game you play alongside some other people when the game forces you to

>>384630308
Shiva's theme is literally the story of Iceheart, you clearly haven't played the game.

>>384621224
Neither. MMO's are dead.

>>384630491
Sadly, WoW is really trying to become that too.

>>384629204
>nuh-uh: The Post
Not him, but while I agree that FFXIV has very good looking spell effects, everything else looks rather meh.

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>>384621224
>Where should I spend my money?
Time for a checklist OP. As for where I am coming from - I cleared Mythic Nighthold (WoW) last patch while waiting for Stormblood to hit.

Otherwise:
>WoW
>Decent levelling, shit story
>EXTREMELY smooth/fast gameplay. Mechanically superior to FFXIV.
>An absolute insane amount of grind if you are interested in clearing raids at all.
>Farm Artifact Power. Farm Legendaries (better pray you get your 2 BiS legendaries (from a pool of 10+)
>Farm Mythic Dungeons. Farm Mythic+ Dungeons (better pray your BiS item Titanforges it's ilvl)
>RNG upon RNG upon RNG.
>World of Diablocraft more than anything else.
>Okay Bosses
>Shit PvP

>FFXIV
>Slow levelling. Good story.
>Gameplay is slower, movement not as smooth as WoW. Although the rotations are the same (if not harder) than WoW (Ret paladins press 5 buttons.)
>Despite a GCD of 2seconds you weave off-GCD spells to constantly be doing things.
>The grind is not nearly as bad atm, Your tomestone gear is acquired quickly through dungeons and the currency-system helps so that RNG cant jew you out of items (Susano/Lakschmi totems)
>Deltascape and Deltascape Savage to clear after that.
>Great Bosses. Lack of DBM is a great pleasure as it forces you to actually use your fucking eyeballs in a raid to watch for mechanics.
>Shit PvP.

Outside of all that.

WoW is likely the better choice if you're going to play absolutely by your self. Its community is largely dead anyways.

FFXIV is better otherwise. Also raids are smaller (Dungeons are 4-man, Raids are 8-man)

>>384625056
>move NA data center
>somehow this means the JP data center is magically better now

>>384630368
>The story is just another "You're the chosen one!" shit that no one likes. It has some good stories, but in general people are happy about just getting it done, because of how much of a chore it is.

t. retard who only knows the opinions of people who exclusively played ARR, probably watched some "WoW vs FFXIV!" e-celeb youtube video 4 years ago

>>384630475
>t. Guy who was legit sad after linkin park necked himself today

>>384630284
>I enjoy sitting through hundreds of hours of fetch quests, watching npcs use simple scripted emotes over and over again.

If we are the reason leveling isn't like that, I'm pretty happy about that.

>>384630368

Sounds to me like you just acknowledged everything in my post was correct. I'll consider this case closed.

>>384630689
Id prefer a grind party where I can make friends and socialize to be honest. Isn't that half the fun of playing a mmo?

>>384630586
Character models look great (for the most part) too, same goes for the animations. Also don't forget about the atmospheric lightning and shit like that.

>>384630368
>Honestly though, XIV is literally just a WoW clone for people that hate WoW, and you're really proving that right.

This, so much this. I haven't seen anyone who's new to MMOs who's played it and said 'this is fun!'.

It's bitter retards who refuse to grow up and blame Blizzard for it.

>Play WoW
>Nothing to do outside of raiding
>Pugging is a nightmare
>Guilds are incompetent

>XIV
>Stuff to do outside of raiding
>Use the LFG tool for everything and do fine

Blizzard needs to get with the times. I don't have the time, or the desire, to have to whore myself out in order to find a group of retards.

More GOAT MMO soundtrack
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=K0rYk83Rt0A

>>384630661
The fuck, do you expect fucking Brahms in your silly video game or something?

>>384627381
What then would you recommend? Rather, what MMO's are you currently playing?

>>384630848
You got the names mixed up anon.

>>384630813
>like game more than WoW
>y-you play it just to spite us!

Grow up kid.

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Do you like good gameplay or anime ERP

>>384630848
>I don't have the time
You mean attention span. How is it that everyone always uses this as their argument against old mmos? Did people somehow magically have more free time 15 years ago?

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>>384629762
>And they completely clash with the bosses. Nothing about these songs compliment the characters, the lore, or the mechanics at all.

Wew wee
>Titan is a rock god
>Literal rock music, tongue-in-cheek.
>Sephirot is a God of Life
>Industrial Rock plays as you kill/corrupt him.
>Sophia's verses detail a Mercyadian family whose life was torn apart by war (which in turn made them summon Sophia) and reveals her twisted nature of 'Balance'.
>Susano, a god of revels has Japanese Revelry/Party/Celebration music
>Lakschmi, a goddess of Bliss, has verses detailing seduction, temptation, and sin.

Please give me a memorable blizzard boss theme
>Kiljaeden?
>Guldan?
>Do you even remember Arthas' theme in Icecrown?

>>384630848
>xiv
>designed to be played once and then you wait to buy the next expansion

>>384631036
Yeah anon it's almost like these people weren't adults 15 years ago or something crazy like that

>>384631036
Yes. Also, if I can quick match in every single other online game I should be able to quick match in MMO's. Otherwise I'm just going to play other things.

>>384630491
It is a single player game. Outside of instances, there is zero fucking content involving the other players.

But people enjoy watching shitty scripted emote cutscenes for hours, as long as they can tell people in their guild about what flavor of doritos they just bought.

>>384631034
>WoW
>good gameplay
>spam these 4 skills endlessly!

Even RDM, which is probably the easiest job in FFXIV, is more busy and has more tactical decisions than anything in WoW.

>>384630127
i'll bite
>crafting in ffxiv being useless compared to wow
>pet battling when verminion exists
>timewalking when ffxiv does a better job of keeping old content relevant
confirmed for not having touched ffxiv or just a retard
if you actually believe that wow has more sidecontent than ffxiv you're a fucking idiot

>>384631139
>Thinks WoW isn't the same way
>People liked a full year of HFC

>>384621224
>padded non-content and gated content vs no content
Jump off a bridge instead.

>>384629324
>Not like sophia's theme

u fuckin' w0t m8

>>384630127
>The game is better in almost every single way than the early expansions. Grow up and accept that you were a fucking stupid kid and were amazed at your first big MMO, not WoW.

Wait what, isn't that an argument against WoW?

>>384630284
If only you could use all your skills in low level content.
Is the only reason i don't do low levels roulette.

>>384630631
God forbid he didn't suffer through the compulsory 100+ hour singleplayer story before he decided he'd literally be better off putting a bullet in his brain.

I'm sure it gets real good in the expansions, sweety.

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>>384631196
Do you know what happened to the last guild that said WoW was simple?

Blizzshit needs to be banned from this board. Shit's so normie tier it's disgusting.

>>384630661
>>384630910
>>384629324

Even if you hate every modern music genre, vocal music and rock instruments, FF14 has a truckload of masterful classical compositions as well so you still have no argument.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YZcTnkja6Sg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jx3QPiTcXa4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TcaXPrdFzMs

>>384630796
Yes, and you're not going to get that in FFXIV. Enjoy questing alone until you get to the 'good' endgame.

Surprise, it's just more shitty instanced questing. Also, enjoy these shitty bosses everyone cleared in a day.

what melds do i do to make the ilvl320 crafted tank accs bis

explain it like im a brainlet

>>384631296
They've actually seemingly turned it around for legion. Not really forgiving them for SoO or HFC but it seems like they kind of felt the backlash of the droughts created by those raids that they're actually doing something about it now.

The PTR for ToS came up like a week after NH opened and the PTR for 7.3 came up like a week after ToS opened. It seems like they're always trying to let you know that they're working on content and it's unarguable that they've done the best job this expansion of continuously pushing out new content considering we've had a total of 29 raid encounters over the course of the expansion so far and another 9 or 10 with Argus raid.

>>384631296
>Thinks WoW isn't the same way
never said that cat slut. content droughts at the end of every single raid tier aside wow is designed for continued play instead of "taking a break".

>>384631648
>"Yes, and you're not going to get that in FFXIV."

>What is PotD group-farming to mash through levels
>What is FATE farming.
>Roulette-farming

The only person making themselves play alone is you anon.

>Also, enjoy these shitty bosses everyone cleared in a day.
5% of the playerbase cleared all of Alexander Savage at the end of the last expansion.

Barely 10 guilds have cleared Deltascape Savage atm.

You realize other people succeeding something doesn't impede your enjoyment of your own group progressing through a raid? Or are you autistic?

>>384631196
Out of all the things you say FFXIV does better than WoW, that's probably the least likely one.

I could play RDM, unironically, with my feet. You've literally never played WoW in your life if you legitimately think that. Go play current StM Shadow Priest in raids. I'll be impressed if you survive any current boss for longer than 30 seconds. Not exagerating.

>>384630894
That's not RO.
Fuck off m8.

>>384631779
>what melds do i do to make the ilvl320 crafted tank accs bis
If you want Damage.

Direct Hit in your left-side items (Helm/Weapon/Chest, etc)

Strength in all your right-side items (accessories).

>>384631234
Pet battling actually has a ton more depth and content than verminion does, it's more of an actual feature compared to just a minigame.

>>384631456
>this is my opinion on the story
>btw I haven't played the story

Pretty good.

>>384631620
Revenge twofold is awesome.

>>384631460
WoW is 13 years old.

>>384631953
>Go play current StM Shadow Priest in raids.
Talk about cherry picking. StM was the only thing warranting a few braincells during Mythic Content (especially during EN).

They even made affliction locks retardedly easy.

Ret Paladins have Judgement/Crusader Strike/Wake of Ashes/Hammer OR Blade/Templars Verdict.

Literally 5 spells (plus Crusade which is off-gcd).

Five fucking buttons.
Nighthold was the most boring shit in my life.

Don't even get me started on Demon Hunters who have the Legendary Ring.

>See this Chaos Strike spell?
>Mash it.

>>384630127
This.

>>384632169
>>384632191
Post your orange parses

>>384631620
You quoted me despite me defending FFXIV soundtrack, don't be so hostile man.

>>384621224
Osrs

>>384631953
>let's compare the by far simplest FFXIV job against the arguably most complex WoW class, this is fair and representative of the overall game mechanics

>>384632286
I'm sorry, I quit WoW 8 years ago, tried Legion and dropped that piece of shit around 1 month after release.

>>384632286
god shut the fuck up

>>384632416
>shadow priest
>complex

Oh, you sweet sweet summer child.

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>>384621224

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>>384632286
>Post your orange parses

>Nighthold
>Difficult.
as
>>384632191
said. Demon Hunters were 1-button mashers once you had the BiS ring.

>>384632581
harder to play than most wow specs
that's for sure

>>384632191
I think the bigger thing here is that a spec requiring the timing of 7.0 StM could never exist in FFXIV. The game isn't responsive enough. You get clipped by AoE you're not in because the the game only checks your position an abysmal amount of times per second. You have a 200 ms delay any time you need to interrupt a cast. You literally can lose two ticks of dots if you have the bad luck of casting them at the cutoff for the server tick. Even moreso than the GCD, this is what makes the combat feel sluggish and unresponsive.

Just stop trying to argue the gameplay in FFXIV is better, it's not. You can point to the graphics, story, housing, etc. as things that FFXIV has over WoW but you have to be the most diehard shill to actually believe the gameplay is better.

Which is fine because you have to be retarded if the only reason you play FFXIV is for the end game raiding when there is a ton of other stuff to do.

I know it's nitpicking for most people, but I loathe the economy system in XIV. I'm into goldmaking. In WoW, I love being able to put 300 transmog items in the AH or 50 stacks of 1 item if I want to. Using addons like TSM correctly is far more complex than any of the crafting in XIV. You can even use your phone to flip stuff while you are taking a shit. And you can use your gold to play for free.

I mean, it's a niche complaint, but there it is.

>>384632609
If it wasn't dead as fuck and have that stupid art style.

Gameplay-wise, it beats WoW and FFXIV out of the water easily.

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>>384632661
Nice LFR parses lmao
>not even 900k DPS being a 95th DH percentile

>>384632581
Still more complex than most WoW builds, nigger.

>>384632297

I added you to the quotes because you implied FF14 doesn't excel in classical music.

>>384633149
Are you implying anything in FFXIV is on the same level as Brahms or is there a big misunderstanding going on here?

>>384632940
You know you have to get out of the AOE before the cast ends right?.
You can go in the aoe marker even when the animation is playing except for a few ones.

>>384633020
It's not a niche complaint. FFXIV doesn't really have an economy, and that makes 50% of the game completely worthless.

In WoW, you can get items while leveling/crafting/pets that sell for far more than endgame shit. Coming up with ways to make money in WoW is fun because there's a ton of possibilities and masses of content.

Especially if you roll on an RP server.

>>384632940
>Just stop trying to argue the gameplay in FFXIV is better, it's not.
I never argued that anon-kun

The argument was the difficulty of rotations overall in FFXIV. Not about how its gameplay mechanics worked.

WoWs are obviously smoother and immensely more responsive. FFXIV is still capped on movement in certain ways because it was also released for consoles.

In terms of rotations, before I quit (mid-way Nighthold, cleared Mythic EN). The only specs that were even remotely difficult was StM Shadowpriest and Feral Druids.

So since the janitor deleted the thread where people were talking about xiv and left up the one about shitposting and bait and counterbait.

Is there a reasonable resource for game mechanics anywhere? Stuff like damage calcs and what these stats actually do and exactly how dots are implemented etc. I keep just finding vague bullshit copy and pasted across everywhere years ago.

Stop talking shit about RDM you fucking assholes I waited ages for it to come out, it's not my fault that it's so satisfying to play.

>>384633020
i came from wow to ffxiv months ago since the content was straight out bad
and it actually really sucks that you can't spend it on subtime, since the only big moneyspender in ffxiv is gear or housing

>>384633102
I gave no fucks. Was still farming the DH legendary shoulders + Convergence of Fates for that easy 1mil DPS.

Besides every mythic boss was barely a gear check with a good group besides Star-Augur and the two bosses after him.

>>384633020
Not being able to pay for an XIV sub with gil isn't a niche complaint. There is literally no reason why this shit shouldn't be in the game.

>>384633293
The janitor deletes those because XIV has a general and people ignore it and infest other MMO threads.

>>384633373
Glamours and minions are also huge goldsinks in FFXIV.

>>384633426
It doesn't actually have a general. It's got a discord circlejerk thread.

>>384633468
glamours and minions aren't that expensive for the average player

>>384633426
Maybe
JUST maybe
They spilled into other threads because their threads keep getting deleted by some cuck

>>384633426
>meanwhile dozens of Blizzard threads daily are a-ok

WoW has more content. Once you hit cap in FFXIV, you just do your weekly raid and then there is nothing else to do for the rest of the week.

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Play the best ever made instead.

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>>384633426
>and people ignore it and infest other MMO threads.
Here we go again.

>>384633426
do you not understand why there's alot of xiv threads on /v/?

>>384633617
Just like in WoW.

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>>384633039

Wildstar also has best in genre housing and it's not "dead" dead it's like Lotro / Champions Online dead.

>>384633617
>WoW has more content. Once you hit cap in FFXIV, you just do your weekly raid and then there is nothing else to do for the rest of the week.
>Farm AP
>Farm Mythic dungeons and Mythic+
>Keep farming goyim. Keep praying for those RNG drops that will RNG titanforge
>Pray for your BiS legendaries too while you're at it.

It's amazing how much they pulled from Diablo 3.

>>384633617
what content?
actual question

Any MMO that has invisible walls anywhere except a mile out into the featureless ocean is worthless. Part of the charm of MMOs is the open explorable world, even if there is fuck all to do out there having full agency to explore the terrain just feels better than bumping into invisible walls to keep you from sliding down a small hill.

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>>384631171
>Outside of instances, there is zero fucking content involving the other players.
Congratulations, you win the "greatest bullshit" award for this stupid fucking thread.

>>384633870
Nah.

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>>384621224
buy a rope instead mmos are dead

I feel like MMOs play very staticly.

People want to wander around in the world and find things.

>>384633617
t. jump potion buyer

>>384633719
It's dead enough for me to call it dead.

And yes, it has the best housing out of any MMO ever made. If it wasn't instanced, it'd probably be out of any game ever made.

>>384621224
>spend my money

gummy literally launching in less than a day, based retard

>>384633904
What a neat screenshot? Where are you all flying to?

Oh right, a world boss. That thing that's just a raid with less mechanics and more sitting around a thing for 10 minutes whilst not standing in AoE areas.

I know you're retarded and enjoy just walking by and seeing other players and their kawaii catgirls, but some of us actually like interacting with other players outside of shitty raids.

>>384633990
Nah, games have tried that and it failed. Sadly, players want FFXIV. A shitty, hollow world with a pretty shell where they can jerk off and spout memes whilst doing braindead content.

That's what the modern MMO player wants. FFXIV is proof of that.

>>384630595
JP already had better ones than NA.

>>384634615
If you play in private servers, you're probably more retarded than everyone in this thread combined.

And that's a lot of retardation.

Legit question (returning FFXIV player), why the fuck is the transmog/wardrobe/glamour system in this game so shitty.

The game already limits you on storage space and if you're trying to store gear for glamour on top of storing gear for other classes it seems like you're SOL unless you buy more retainers.

Also why is there a separate item to transmog each type of gear instead of just one? It seems needlessly complicated.

>>384634819
>SOL unless you buy more retainers.
You answered your own question.

>>384622073
The only thing I hate about FFXIV is the long as fuck GCD. I'm not sure anything can really compete with the frantic bullshit that is S2M Shadow Priest

And yes I know that you get lots of off-GCD skills in FF later, but it still looks so slow

>>384634819
They are "trying" to add something like a catalogue of glamour that will work with some armor.
This would be a non issue if the armoire fucking worked with more sets.

>>384634819
>why the fuck is the transmog/wardrobe/glamour system in this game so shitty.
Its not as easy as WoW with the whole transmog-set-system. Wowhead. and tools that make it easier.

But storage space really shouldnt be an issue anon. Are you really maxing out the storage space of your 2 standard retainers?

I hoard everything I get and I still have shit tons of space.

>>384634819
People will push the retainer conspiracy, but even if it were that then they would still allow you to glamour from retainer inventories. The truth is that the game is running off of shitty servers from 1.0 and that severely hinders their ability to make sweeping changes to things.

>>384634908
not even Blade and Soul is that jewish

>>384634943
>but it still looks so slow
Because it is slow. Look at logs, CPM ranges from 30-40 on the low end to 50s if you're playing NIN.

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>>384629936
I was making dinner, but as you can't quantify "heart", let's look at it this way.

>XIV just released new emotes today that are probably 5-8 dollars a piece
>emotes
>along with glamour / transmog gear and fucking haircuts, Blizz did the same with 3 helms a few years ago but stopped quickly
>they also sell mounts and pets, but Blizzard does that too so I can't use that as a strike against them.

They're clearly in it to make money from the dress-up shit. Meanwhile, Blizzard puts out interesting shit in it's half patches, like new little events from the PvP Brawls to the Kirin Tor Pub Crawl and the Trial of Style for nothing more than your monthly fee. There's shit like the artifact challenge skins that you just have to get good at your class to get and it's like a badge of honor. Their open world has constantly tried new things, and yeah, sometimes it's been shit, but I love stuff like "do these quests and help with the war effort and see the mage tower built for your effort" or whatever.

XIV Is just a constant cycle of repeated content on a three month timetable. I'm not even delving into the assets basically ported from XI or anything in Stormblood. I'm just saying it's "2 dungeons, 1 main 4-story raid or 1 side 24 man raid" every three months. You're losing the 2 dungeons, even, it's going down to 1 on odd patches. And those are the only two high-level dungeons you get, while WoW's current expansion dungeons are all relevant via Mythic systems.

>>384634943
Meanwhile I'm still mad at wow for getting rid of their slow, deliberate specs for adhd button mashy shit.

>Feel the WoW addiction starting to kick in again
>Yield and download the trial version again
>Start of a character, start getting excited
>Load in and look at what they've done to talents
>Remember server interaction is still killed because BGs / Battlegrounds
>Remember raids have lost their weight because Raid Finder
>Remember guild drama
>Start remembering the low level grind
>Quit out and uninstall for about 6 months until the process happens again
I can't be the only one

>>384635051
We need a if only you knew how bad things really are image with yoshida

>>384634943
Have to please the controller users aka 95% of the Japanese audience.

Game is perfectly playable with controllers now, but lower the gcd and it becomes next to impossible

>>384634679
No I think XIV takes some steps in the right direction with hunts and treasure maps and gathering and stuff.

But gathering just needs to be faster.
Hunts need to be more like Monster Hunter.
Treasure Maps need to be more like Uncharted 4.

I know those are stupid comparisons, but what I mean is the feel of those three.
In MMOs I just feel like I'm hitting of a checklist. Go here, click this, get this.
I want it to be gradual.

Here's an example: You go get a Rank S hunt.
You need 7 other people to do it.
Once you've made the contract, you travel to the area and the Hunt spawns.
But you have to track it first, you have no idea of its whereabouts.
And you can't just go up to it and hit it, you need to set traps beforehand. You need to learn about the monster.

>>384635047
I leveled all the classes to max before I quit in 2.0 and I still keep a bunch of the gear that I like for them. I basically use one retainer for all my crafting shit and misc. and another two retainers just for gear. I literally have 40 slots in my inventory and no space left on any of my three retainers.

>>384635258
No, it's still slow as fuck on controller. People have been using controllers to play shit like fighting games and DMC for ages. Take your 2.5s and even 1.5s GCDs with you.

>>384635258
Controller support isn't an excuse. Neverwinter is on consoles too and it plays much faster.

It's shitty code.

>>384635383
t. shitter

>>384635232
I feel the exact opposite. As someone playing XIV I always look at WoW as the greener grass. Their updates have raids with 4 modes, and I like the concept of scaling and randomized dungeons with buffed up loot. I like the idea of having infinite vertical progress in artifacts. I like the legendaries (though I wish they were more controlled/less RNG). I like their pet battles. I like their game world more. Hell I think im only playing XIV for friends now because I hate the idea of only logging in to do roulettes, level crafters, and cycle the same 2 primals to gear alt jobs I dont really play much.

>>384634819
XIV servers/netcode is absolute dogshit. Japs cannot into online games.
>Instance servers can't handle more than about 100 people fighting in a zone at once and if there's more they'll start dropping data or disconnecting people.
>Furniture in player housing pops in/out existence if there are too many interactive objects nearby.
>Loading screens to dive in/out of water
>Loading screen to go through a door in the same zone
>Abilities get delayed if your ping is too high to the point where some classes are pretty much impossible to play optimally above certain ping thresholds.
Every time the players want a feature they just say they can't do it because the servers can't handle it, when other MMOs have had that same feature for years.

>>384635493
>point out TWO POINT FIVE is still too generous for controller
>shitter
Retard alert. Retard alert.

>>384635271
You lost me on the trap part. Everything before that about using a currency or something to spawn a hunt for your party in a zone and splitting up to find it sounds interesting.

>>384633359
>satisfying

Braindead class that successfully killed off both other casters due to utility/ease in progression. RDM is the worst addition to SB

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>>384635152
>I've never done Hildibrand, Post Moogle, Beast Tribes, Chocobo Races, Lord of Verminion, Triple Triad, Treasure Hunts, Scholasticate Story, Sightseeing Log, Housing, Hunts, special FATEs or anything else besides the stuff I expect from an MMO because I'm a big dumb WoWfugee

>>384635662
>implying BLM is any harder than RDM

>>384621224
Are you fresh to Legion? Or starting from lvl1?

If yes, don't bother. You're so far behind that it's pointless. Even if you're no lifing it you still have a fuck long wait on tons of shit in order to get anywhere.

Just wait for the next WoW expansion to near release, maybe 1-2 months in advance, then do everything WoW has to offer in LFR / get carried through normals while waiting for the next expansion to drop. It's a full on waste of cash to start playing it right now.

No comment on FF, never played it.

>>384635971
It's slightly harder due to requiring more fight knowledge
There's literally nothing more braindead than BLM's rotation

>>384635648
I'm giving examples so it wouldn't turn into, "Found it, come hit it."

You would need to survey the land for hints, tracks, footprints.
Then when you find the Hunt, you need to use the area to our advantage in setting up traps.

Say you need to sneak up behind the Hunt while it's drinking and place a knockback bomb behind it so it moves into the water, giving it a debuff or whatever or so it can't fly off or whatever.

The point is it would be more like a small puzzle with party communication rather than a fight.
Learning how to lure Hunts and move monsters without being seen.

>>384635271
a huge problem with FFXIV (and most MMOs) is how fucking detached the monsters are from their environment. They just fucking stand there and do nothing. Even PS2 games had guards talking to each other and trying to stay awake or animals grazing. The world of FFXIV isn't interesting to explore because there isn't anything happening in the world. Fuck even an easter egg or two of some meme character popping up every few hours would drastically increase the willingness to actually travel around instead of teleport for checklists and afk for duty finder.

I know they did something with Edda showing up for Halloween, so why can't they do more shit like that?

>>384636123
You forgot about special FATEs like Odin, Behemoth or most recently Ixion. We need way more of that.

Do NOT buy WoW

I repeat DO NOT buy WoW

It's SHIT

Do not let 4chan MEME you into BUYING it!! it's TRASH!!!

Sub numbers are DOWN the lowest they've EVER been!!

The only anons who will disagree are the ones STILL PAYING to play!! They know they desperatley need more players for their DYING game!!! They are terrified that their BELOVED game is dying and are UNABLE to let go like the rest of us!!!

Do NOT be memed!

>>384635190
I thought warlocks were supposed to be the slow casters. I can't say I've ever played one in legion though.
I guess its hard to balance raids for slow deliberate actions when you have shit like Demon Hunters and Warriors jumping all over the place and Monks spindashing out of harms way.

SPriest may be ADHD button mashy shit, but I love the idea of being a huge, low dps piece of shit for 70% of the fight and then shifting into turbo mode during the execute phase and climbing back to the top of the meter while desperately trying not to drop out of shadowform and then dying
Too bad its not the meta build anymore

>>384636227
if they found a way for the server not to explode maybe.

Alright, since janny is a fucking fag and blasted the thread before I posted my reply I'm bringing this here. If you guys are still around I'd like to get some enlightenment on what I did wrong with the second easiest job in the game. The context is
>fight starts
>everyone does their opener
>somebody fucks up about a minute in and we wipe
>log goes BLM > DRG > Dragon sighted SAM > SAM

>>384631724
>you're just bad or have bad gear
I was using THAT opener
- kasha, hagakure
- jinpu, higanbana
- meikyo, yukikaze, guren, other 2, midare
- kasha, gekko, yukikaze, midare
so I couldn't have done anything wrong rotation-wise. I didn't even get to a point where I had Shinten to spam

>>384631827
>What fight? easy ones like XD normal you can pull 4k+ on BLM not even trying
O2S. Well, you pretty much turret at the [1] waymark the entire time anyway. I don't doubt the BLM's opener burst but the DRG was surprising

>>384636123
What the fuck are you talking about? Enemies are exactly like that in 2.0 areas.

>>384636318
I find WoW very fun but less fun than XIV if you have no friends to play it with.

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>New MMO comes out
>It does something cool
>The following WoW expansion absorbs said cool new mechanic into the game
>Old MMO dies.
>Cycle continues

>>384635867
You know, I agree that you'd have to be pretty dumb to play FFXIV just for the endgame raiding, but at the same time there's some validity to his point.

Cooperative, challenging PvE content (raiding) with a large group of people is something that you can only experience in MMOs. (Co-op) in console games doesn't count because it's neither on the same scale and normally doesn't require any real coordination, the only one that is an exception is Destiny which actually has real raiding albeit with a small group of people)

A bunch of the stuff you listed is gameplay you can find in other games and executed better in other games. I don't think Squeenix is dumb for diversifying their content; especially for the players for whom which FFXIV is all they play, but you can't blame blizzard for playing to their strengths either and devoting the majority of their resources to endgame raiding when that is the strongest and most unique selling point of their experience.

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>>384635867
I have the stupid postmoogle hat that you can't even dye, I have the spectacles emote and the glasses, along with the Gigi minion. I did everything but moogle beast tribes. Lord of Verminion is shit compared to WoW pet battling. I admit I never fucked with Chocobo racing, but that's because I don't care for racing and already made my MGP fortune from triple triad before they nerfed the gains. I've done aquapolis shit (which is barely content, it's brainless and is literally just a way to farm in-game currency.

A lot of shit on your list is one time things, including Hildy / Inspect Briarden shit, post moogle, sightseeing, and beast tribes (unless you really just enjoy the dailies after the stories are complete) and in the context of an MMO, is interesting but just like any other questline. I've also done the greatest story never told, before you try and bring that shit up.

The other stuff (hunts, special fates) is some of the most bare-bones open world content you can put in a game. WoW has rare spawns you can kill for gains, special things like Kosumoth the Hungering / Forgotten Hippogryph, world quests (which are basically dailies given a new skin, granted, but it still feels better than beast tribe dailies or hunts because there's at least a snippet of "hey, Galbranth the Unliving is eating our cows, pls help, we give gold") and there's archaeology as well, which provides interesting lore snippets / monetary and item gains.

The point of my post was to compare the systems and amount of combat-based content in an MMO where you kill things to progress, but thanks for letting me list some of the side content of WoW too.

>>384635867
>Beast Tribes

you mean standard fetch quests with the occasional levequest?

>Chocobo Races, Lord of Verminion, Triple Triad
All of these are really really shallow. Please don't act like these are worth any more time than 10 minutes.

>HUNTS
You mean kill X a few times or wait for the boring as fuck world boss to spawn and be zerged in a minute?

>special FATEs
same as normal FATEs

>sightseeing log
they actually have to encourage you to explore the world is so boring

The only ones you have are Hildibrand and Scholasticate because it has more story and some new fights, but it still follows the MSQ formula. Not really new.

>>384636123
Ideally the should just do what you're saying and remove enemies from the world.

Because there's no point to them, just have enemies be through FATES.

Give the NPC animals a utility.
They don't need exuberant AI pathfinding between grazing and pack mentalities or whatever.
Even stupid mechanics like, feeding wild animals foe example.

Just that one little example, feeding a wild animal can be taken so far.
Perhaps to animal gives you something in return.
Perhaps it can become a mount for a short while.
Maybe the animals graze where you left some feed and enrich the soil, giving you plants to harvest.
Maybe you can take materials from calm animals. Wool, milk.

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>queue for Ala Mhigo
>healer complaints that they didn't want to do this dungeon
>yet they queued for EX roulette which only has three instances
>doesn't leave at the start but after the second mob
>no new healer
>leave
>now have to wait for another 30 minutes to get into the dungeon with a full group

>>384636227
Not really. They just stand there waiting to be zerged. It's boring as fuck.

>>384634679
We're not and you should tell your caretakers to let you die in your sleep next time you stop breathing fatty.

>>384636376
>Enemies are exactly like that in 2.0 areas.

No they aren't. They just stand there and walk a few meters to the left or right with a few beast tribes having people sitting down in a few spots.

>>384634679
Yeah who would have thought that mmo players want a relatively classic mmo experience instead of some ""new"" and ""revolutionary"" and ""experiemental"" and ""dogshit""

>>384636691
The rare time I do a solo roulette it's always in progress and almost always at the start. Sucks for DPS that have to wait 30+ minutes, but maybe you fags should fucking level a tank or healer or at least get really fucking good at DPS to where the important roles want you in their premades.

>>384637118
>relatively classic mmo experience instead of some ""new"" and ""revolutionary"" and ""experiemental"" and ""dogshit""

PUBG is growing every day. It seems like the MMO genre is going to move to Battle Royale style emergent gameplay.

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>>384637140
>but maybe you fags should fucking level a tank or healer
I did, I play WAR too. However I don't want gear for my WAR but BLM.
>or at least get really fucking good at DPS to where the important roles want you in their premades.
>premades
>dungeons

>>384621224
If you got nostalgia for wow do yourself a favor and just play on Warmane. Also it's f2p.

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Do any other MMOs let me get married?

>>384637140
>get really fucking good at DPS to where the important roles want you in their premades.
Had this happen to me when I was leveling ninja. Got to ride their queues from bardam to castrum

>>384636691
>levelling roulette
>get some miserable low level dungeon
>dps is like dragoon and samurai who have literally no aoe at this level
>tank tries to do a big aoe pull
>LOSes himself from the healer and dies
>blames everyone else

>>384637410

ragnarok online

>>384635152
Versus blizzard adding 2 new emotes after 8 years of the same exact emotes?

Versus FF having new holiday events every year when blizzard has has the same since launch?

The emotes are 3 dollars and only a weeb would buy them but add up all the optional shit (mounts, pets, cosmetic,) from both games and I guarantee the 13 $10 pets and the 10 $25 mounts add up to more than the cosmetics for FF.

>but I love stuff like "do these quests and help with the war effort and see the mage tower built for your effort" or whatever.

"Pls do all world quests to make a building that gives a shit buff for 2 days until you get to build the next building for yet another shit buff"

All the "interesting shit" that blizzard adds is total garbage for their outdated dying mmo, from the transmog contest awarding shitty recolor sets to the pvp brawls being glitched and cheesed only timewalking and invasions are worth even doing. Not to mention how FF has a unique story for every job that goes beyond "kill the bad guy now you're the highlord". Hell even the crafting classes have something to get you inot the game past buying everything you need to get to max of the AH.

What I'm trying to say here is kill yourself senpai.

>>384637462
>halatali as a melee
just fuck my shit up

>>384637361
>premades
>dungeons

This is literally the best way to do roulettes and level. Maybe Yoshi was right and there are a lot of tanks and healers, but the DPS players are just too stupid to find premades on their server because that requires communication.

>>384636227
There's a bunch of them but they tend to be awkwardly placed. Gorgimera doesn't drop anything special but is a fairly serious fight with an achievement, Coeurlregina is in Forelands, there's a couple mini-storyline FATE chains in Churning Mists including the Verdrfolnir one that later ties into the MSQ, there's the Proto-Ultima thing in Azys Lla, etc.

Quit WoW during MoP after deciding it wasn't gonna get any better. Hated how everything became obsolete in a few months and how everything outside the most recent expansion zones was totally pointless.

Been playing XIV for 2 years and enjoying it more. It still has the standard problems of theme park MMOs like stuff going obsolete, but the presentation absolutely shits on anything in WoW so it's at least enjoyable to play through. I like the story focus with proper cutscenes and dialogue, and how you can do everything on one character. And I prefer XIV's side content. Shit like pet battles didn't appeal to me at all.

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just beat o2s with pugs
as MCH

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>>384621224
vanilla WoW

>>384637740
how was the total dps?

>>384637740
>still stuck on o1s as a tank where im the last one standing
fuck this raiding BULLSHIT

>>384637818
i didn't parse, but we won around the 2nd -100g. the summoner kept dieing and had less dps than the warrior

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>>384628724
>also forgetting about the strict gear requirements in WoW to artifically halt progression

Does WoW have savage raids?

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>>384637524
>it's ok because they're new, so we can charge for a three second emote that we put in the game but arbitrarily restrict access to unless you're willing to pay 3-7 dollars for them

I got my prices from the Play Dead emote, which I remember friends being like "seven dollars, what the fuck" over.

I also said I know Blizzard sells mounts and pets, I was pointing to the inherently shitty practice of selling emotes and haircuts (attached to some gear you might not even want) for actual money.

>a shit buff
Legendary follower gear + war table missions that have huge bonuses (7500 nethershards, that's a free 880 that can turn into a legendary and half of another one), mounted interaction, spawning a world boss with 890+ gear, free raid bonus roll tokens, and also the mage tower that lets you attempt to get your challenge appearance.

Which part of that is shit again?

>pvp brawls are glitched and not worth doing
I didn't have any problems with the Deep Six one last week, and I got a 905 titanforged frost relic + AP + marks of honor for transmog gear on one character, an 890 pair of legs on another, etc.

Timewalking and then dungeon bonus events are great bonuses.

>FF has a unique story for every job that goes beyond kill the bad guy
Ah, except you do kill the bad guy in every Job quest in XIV for combat classes. RDM and SAM included. Whether it's a fucking pirate or an aether vampire, it's a bad guy.

Some of the class hall questlines in WoW were fucking amazing, like DK's. Raise four heroes, two of which you ended with your own hands previously into undeath, march on Light's Hope and try to get Tirion, etc. Not to mention the artifact questlines for some classes. Felo'melorn, Ashbringer, Aluneth, Kingslayers, etc.

Dude, there's a mission where Gul'dan thinks you're turning traitor, invites you to his secret club, you jack the Scepter of Sargeras and kill everyone, then he sends you hate mail.

>>384637972
It only does one -100g (the attack that launches everyone in the air)
With all 4 dps neck to neck I hit enrage at 2%. I suspect my tanks were severely underperforming

>>384628114

Outside of some primals and boss fights XIV has shit visuals as well. Zones have looked like garbage since 2.0 and even then most of the 2.0 zones weren't that great. Suramar looks better than any zone in XIV and it has a much more interesting layout instead of just being an empty bland overworld with no depth.

>>384631385
It's an argument against early-WoW vs nu-WoW

>>384637740
post parses

I don't doubt you I just want to see how a pug team looks

>>384638963
Are you sure it doesn't do another -100g near the end? Because we killed the boss while we were tossed in the air (it was quite comical). Maybe its completely random.

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old WoW > FFXIV > BNS > BDO > nu-WoW

Private Servers suck, stay away.
Other MMO's aren't worth mentioning at the moment.

higanbana: min 854 max 1085
thunder 3: min 1360 max 1752

caster main hand weapon damage and 5 potency really make a difference, huh

>>384626576
I mean you could memorize a whole samurai cycle but that would be 200 actions long before a whole cycle, you better memory the priorities. Also some openers are better than others depending of some factors like group composition and fight duration between downtimes.

>>384639245
the only reason old WoW is better than nu-WoW is nostalgia, anon. i hope you understand that.

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personally i like ff14 better because of the music and the boss fight wich are amazing. The community is okay but the 3/4 of poepel you will see will be fury cat with unoriginal name and ugly tatto.


Wow on the other hand got the biggest mmo community and got plenty of thing to do pvp and pve related (even if now its more pve) the artefact system is fun but at some point it become a pain in the ass and community is one of the most retarded. Take what you like the most, the choice is between an anime fag game and the other live on his past succes

>>384635271

No one is going to do some complicated ass hunt content when the reward will inevitably be 10 loot points towards a shit piece of gear that will be outdated in two months.

I agree it would be fun but it's not going to happen.

>>384639479
I didn't play WoW until Legion released because I was too busy playing FFXI when it released originally.

As someone who's played both Legion and Vanilla with no nostalgia goggles, Vanilla had a certain charm to it.

Enemies were actually somewhat scary in certain areas and I liked that open world PvP was still a thing. I don't think I got into a single fight in Legion grinding from 100-110 even with tons of people from the other faction around.

>>384639774

>I don't think I got into a single fight in Legion grinding from 100-110 even with tons of people from the other faction around.

Well start a fight then.

>>384637410
Mu online

>>384626576
Samurai is only static in dummy fights. When things falls off and mismatch your weeb insignias (i.e. all the time due to mechanics) it becomes a priority system

>>384639762
So what is a better reward?
Do players ALWAYS need a material reward?
Can there be narrative rewards?
Can you work material rewards through narrative?

>>384639876
No, fuck you.

>>384639945
>Do players ALWAYS need a material reward?
In MMOs? Yes. There is a small percentage of players who have enough self-awareness to play for reasons besides loot, but they are the minority. Most people play for one reason only: the sweet sweet dopamine release caused by seeing numbers go up. Players do not think of game content in terms of "fun" or "not fun", they think of it in terms of "worth doing" or "not worth doing" i.e. is the reward worth the effort? Zero reward = no point. If this was not the case you'd see people running old raids synced just for fun.

>>384639774
Blizzard in their infinite wisdom made """pvp""" world quests where one faction had to climb this tower and kill the npc at the top and the other faction had a similar quest somewhere else so they wouldn't interfere with each other.