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I wanna try out some final fantasy games. Which ones are the

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I wanna try out some final fantasy games.

Which ones are the best/most important FFs?
>>
final fantasy VI (III in US) is the best and first one you should try. Ignore all the other over-hyped garbo
>>
I would do ff4 and ff7. they both hold some of the best of the series like the best storytelling and characters respectively.
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>>384526107
IX
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>>384526107
1,4,5,6,7,T,10

1 because MUH ORIGIN
4 because it got the story rolling without being hindered by the Gameplay
5 got some of the best boss battles in the series, helped by having a great job system
6 and 7 is so you can get how up in their own ass the fans of those are.
T got the best battle and job system in the series.
10 is so you can see how CORRIDOR GAMEPLAY got started.

Honorable mention to 9, but is really needs you to have play 1-3 minimum to TRULY appreciate it, so i wouldn't put it as a START HERE.

Also gonna post this and see how many get triggerd by it this time around.
>>
IV, VI, VII, IX, and X I believe are the biggest ones (though V is something of a cult classic).
The first 3 are archaic and worth looking at mostly if you like classic turn-based/want to see where certain elements of the series came from.
>>
>>384526107
Depends on what you're looking for. Of the old school sprite ones (1-6), FF6 is the best, but 4 is also amazing. 5 has really interesting gameplay, but it's overall not as good as the others. Of the newer ones (7-10), FF10 is the best IMO, but lots of people adore 7 and 9 too. Of the really new ones (12-15), 12 is really good IMO, but some people don't like it. 13 kind of sucks, but it's 2 sequels, 13-2 and Lightning Returns are great IMO. 15 is ok too. I'd say play FF6 if you want an old school SNES JRPG, or 10 if you want a newer style JRPG.
>>
>>384526324
The only overhyped final fantasy is FFXIII. people act like that shit is great bc of "mie waifu". It's overhyped like DSII is here
>>
>>384526668
Is this a picture for giants?

I mean godfuck.
>>
>>384526754
>Of the old school sprite ones (1-6), FF6 is the best

yep. VI is the best 2D one and a very good game all around.

VII is the best of the PSone era. even though vidya forum losers love to shill IX which is slow as hell.
X is the most "anime" one. XII is the best FF in the rpg mechanics department.
XIII is the most convoluted one but it gets point for ambitious story and a good battle system.
XIV is fine.
XV is really good if you get good at the battlesystem, it's shit if you hate the battlesystem.
>>
1 is very simple story and gameplay wise, but is a solid game.
2 is a failed experiment with a generic anime story.
3 has the job system so the gameplay is great, the only bad thing about this one is the gimmick dungeons. I'd recommend playing a fan translation of the NES version.
4 can get pretty tedious, this game feels long and draining.
5, 6, and 7 are masterpieces.
8 has one of the most unique and interesting gameplay mechanics in RPGs and a soundtrack as good as the rest of the series, but everything else about it, story, characters, etc is hot garbage.
9 was a good return to the style of the old games but can feel like nostalgia bait at times.
10 had a comfy setting fuck you
12 is one of the best offline MMOs
13 was very linear
>>
>>384526107
Bravely Default
>>
>>384526107
Start with Dawn of Souls
>>
Best advice is: just start with X.


>>384527249
>12 is one of the best offline MMOs

you have either never played XII or mmos. that's as retarded as people saying XV is like KH.
>>
>>384526107
here's the real list OP

>Best
Final Fantasy Tactics
Final Fantasy Tactics Advance
Final Fantasy Tactics A2
Final Fantasy XII
Final Fantasy XII: Revenant Wings
Vangrant Story

>Honorable Mentions
Final Fantasy 6
Final Fantasy 9
Final Fantasy X-2 (so I guess you have to play X by extension)

that's it, the rest are for babies.
>>
>>384526864
I hear more people shit on ff13 than praise it. How is it overhyped?
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>>384526107
What you need to understand is that someone's favorite final fantasy will always be the first one they played.

I recommend FF9 because it has the classical feel without the raw clunkiness of the nes and snes entries.
6, 7, 8, 9 if you want the an oldy FF, those are the popular ones.
1, 2, 3, 4, 5 if you're unto retro games
10, 12, 13 if you're into new age stuff (mention for FF10 being the last good FF)

They all have their importance.
>>
>>384527445
BD is basically FFV with the added flair of that particular writer (who got a HUGE hardon for DIMENSIONAL TIMELOOPS IIRC).

Still great though.
>>
>>384526107
V and Tactics.
>>
>>384526107
6, 7, 8, 9, 10 and 12
>>
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>>384526324
you know
>>
>>384526107
Tactics
XII
Tactics Advance
Tactics Advance 2

X and VII are also good. Never bothered playing the rest and fuck XIII, don't even bother with it and especially not it's sequels.
>>
>>384527997
Didn't the director/producer of that also do 4HOL and FFIIIDS?
>FFV 3D remake never ever
>>
>>384527834
Ivalice truly is the best
>>
>>384527834
So close, but let me fix this.

>Best
Final Fantasy Tactics
Final Fantasy Tactics Advance
Final Fantasy Tactics A2
Final Fantasy XII
Final Fantasy 1 PSP
Vangrant Story

>Honorable mentions
Final Fantasy 4 PSP
Final Fantasy 9
Lost Odyssey

and the rest are for babies
>>
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>>384527943
>What you need to understand is that someone's favorite final fantasy will always be the first one they played.

Making assumptions there i see i will be happy to inform you that that is simply not true, my favorite is V but the first on i played was VII at a friends place I hated it. and i played and beat IV and VI before even touching V.
>>
>>384526107
GBA/PSP version of IV, GBA versions of V and VI. VII.

That's really it. Enjoy.
>>
>>384528325
Yep, and was also involved in Steins;Gate and a ton of other TT/Timeloop VNs.
>>
>>384526864
You're too dumb to realise that its literally one person (lightning-kun) who constantly shitposts pro-ff13 material
>>
Where is my 20th anniversary new FFT game?
>>
>>384527652
I agree with this anon. Get the worst one out of the way first.
>>
>>384528709
On your phone.
>>
>>384526107
FF14 is the best FF game currently out and has a free trial up to level 35.
>>
>>384528820
I already bought that port, I want another game.
>>
If I'm playing FF1 for the first time, which version should I play?
>>
>>384529145
8-bit Theater
>>
>>384526107
FFV is the best final fantasy game. It's the peak of the series
>>
>>384526107
6>4=7>the rest
>>
>>384526690
V is loved by nips and VI isn't liked at all by the nips
>>
>>384529024
Don't listen to this sick twisted mongoloid trash whore turkey eyed bathing lactose spoon toggling bastard,
>>
>>384529145
PS1 version is closest to the original version without requiring modding to fix.
The GBA version has some mods (one to restore the original magic system and one which makes the game harder, not sure if its close to the original difficulty or beyond it) but I haven't looked into those too well.
The PSP version is basically a nicer version of the GBA version.
>>
>>384527943
XI had the worst battle system in the series
>>
>>384529145
The GBA version. Aesthetically the best and you wouldnt notice any difference between it and the NES version.
>>
>>384529145
PSP or android
>>
>>384529564
>you wouldnt notice any difference between it and the NES version.
You know, except for the magic system and the difficulty being easier.
>>
>>384529556
Worst battle system (Slow as molasses), but great potential of customization, just that like all MMOs you had to Minmax or be bullied.
>>
FIF-TEEN
>>
>>384529714
>XI
>customization
No it didn't. FFV, FFVI, FFVII, and FFVIII offered customization but XI was IV level in customization
>>
>>384529474
Honestly I loved the first quarter of FF 6, but after that I was very disappointed. I was so hyped for the final dungeon, but I just kinda steemrolled it same with the other 75% of the game leading up to that.
>>
>>384526107
>most important
1 - beginning
2 - became saga
3 - defined most of the final fantasy classes, becomes bravely default
4 - first pretentious story in the series, defining most of the rest
7 - most popular because of all the poor families and their knock off brand consoles getting a game that lasts a decent amount of hours, this is the one all the poor kids rave about

the rest are not important, but they're more likely better
>>
>>384527943
>What you need to understand is that someone's favorite final fantasy will always be the first one they played.

Not really.
>>
None of the games are canonically related. They all take place in their own universe. (Although there are direct sequels, like FFX-2) It doesn't matter where you start with the series. Just play the first game, and if you like it, continue in order of release date.

These threads do nothing but trigger autists who devote themselves to a single game and samefag it incessantly until you no longer want to play it.

>Which ones are the best
None of them. Character development mechanics differ so radically from one game to the next that the fanbase is incredibly fractured and divisive. You aren't going to know what's "best" until you actually play them all for yourself. It's entirely subjective.
>>
How's Zodiac Age?
>>
>>384529858
Yeah it is obviously worse then V and T and shit, just saying it wasn't ALL bad, due how "The abillities of a second Job at half the level of your main" was much much more then one would think due how early shit learned the good abilities and just how many jobs there were.
>>
>>384527943
>FF9 because it has the classical feel without the raw clunkiness of the nes and snes entries

FF9 is literally the clunkiest game in the series. The memory usage is so poorly optimized that random battles take an average of 10 minutes, and most of that is transitioning and animation time.

What are you smoking?
>>
>>384529949
Nu-/v/ tries way too hard to be contrarian these days
>>
>>384526107
Tactics > 6 > 7 > 10 > 4 > 12 > 9 > 15 > 5 > 8 > 3 > 1 > 13 > 2
>>
>>384526107

If you have a ps4 get

Xii zodiac age

X/x-2 remaster

7 (like 15$)
>>
>>384530424
what's contrary in that post?
are you using words you don't know, again?
>>
IV is personally my favourite, if you want to emulate it the psp version is really good and has great sprites

Though the ds version is also really popular, thats the steam version too.
>>
Mystic Quest if you in for a short and easy time.
Ff4 if you don't want to worry about figuring out leveling systems.
Ff5 or 12 if you care about leveling systems and like fairy tale stories.
Ff8 if you like jdrama
Ff6 or ff7 if you trust popular opinion
Ff9 if you dont trust popular opinion
Ff10 if you like leveling systems and dont mind janky ass voice acting
Ff13 or ff15 if you like mindless theatrics
Ff13-2 only if you know the story of 13 and also like pokemon.
>>
>>384529858
>FFVI
>customization

You could teach any character any spell, but you couldn't class change anyone. And I'm pretty sure there are character-specific equipment restrictions as well.

Your post also neglected to mention 2, which gives you even more liberty than 12. (Not the shitty Zodiac Job version, the original game that let you learn any license you wanted)
>>
>>384526107

The SNES Trilogy is the best to start.

IV, V, and VI are easily the best in the series, and all 3 are pretty different from each other to boot.

After those 3, I'd day move on to other generations and see what you like.
>>
>>384530579
I cant stand the updated menu text. Original snes has the best look. Although, i do love the additional post game dungeons they added. Finally gave me a reason to level to 99.
>>
>>384530229

It's shit. Like other SE remasters, everything is improperly upscaled to half-assed "HD" quality. It's slightly better than the International Job System version it's based on since it allows you to juggle two jobs, but that's not an improvement over the original game. The original game allowed characters to learn every license on the board. If you want to play with license restrictions, there's nothing stopping you from doing that in the PS2 version. You don't have to have restrictions forced on you.
>>
play smt
>>
>>384530193
Not true all games are connected through portals that Gilgamesh was able to use.
>>
>>384531216
That Exdeath threw him in
>>
I easily say X is the best to start with. Its a good mix between classic and modern FF gameplay wise, small detailed areas to explore while still having a shitton of side content with extra summons, ultimate weapons, and the monster arena.

XV is good if you want the prettiest game with easy, comfy real time combat.

XIII is the most simplified game. It still looks nice though and sounds great.

XII is fantastic is you prefer stategicly programming your party to do the tedium work, but would be an odd one to play first.

VII, VIII, and IX are all pretty equal and will really just be up to preference as to which ones better. Theyre all great games, but if someone tells you one is the best game in the series theyre being a nostalgiafag.

IV and VI are pretty equal, but I strongly prefer VI. IV's "great story" has waaay too many instances of "they died... but not really"

III and V both have fantastic job systems, with V being an improvement over III.

Do not play II as your first game. Its not bad, but they had some good experimental ideas that were implemented terribly. The best way to train is to attack yourself

I is a classic, enough said
>>
>>384527589
Fuck this faggot. Play origins on normal mode.
>>
>>384531405
>VI
Muh Joker clone
>>
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Does anyone know which Final Fantasy feels the closest to Crystal Chronicles?
I ask because it was my first Final Fantasy game ever back then when I had a Gamecube I really like how comfy that game is in terms of music & art.
>>
>>384530542
>PS1
>knock off brand console
Man I can't believe someone is still upset from Sony btfo Nintendo out of the game industry with their first console.
>>
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>going on vacation soon
>wanna play a jrpg during my flight and any off time
>already own these 3 on the vita
I started CT. The menu is fucking grating and I'm not a huge fan of the enemies attacking me when I'm choosing my abilities. But it's also the shortest game of the 3 so I'm leaning towards it. Otherwise I've been wanting to play IV and IX.
>>
>>384532041
Um, the other crystal chronicle games? what even is this question lmao
>>
>>384532298
Sorry I meant mainline Final Fantasy as in I, II,VII etc.
>>
>>384532041
FFCC is very different to regular final fantasy games, but 9 is pretty close in setting.
>>
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>>384526648
Yo.
>>
>>384532041
>Does anyone know which Final Fantasy feels the closest to Crystal Chronicles?

It's pretty unique, but FF2 might be vaguely similar. I believe they both had the same director.

The thing about Chronicles is that, although you choose from different races with their own starting stats, any character can be molded into virtually any build. The only real hardcoded differences between races are which items they can equip, and their charge times for executing spells and focus attacks. (But even that can be offset by accessories)
>>
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I-III: retro grindfests - somewhat fun but clunky.
IV-VI: the silver age - this is where Final Fantasy establishes itself as something more than a cheap Dragon Quest knockoff.
VII-IX: the gold sage - same, but now in 3D. This is where the series peaked.
X & XII: experimental shit starts here but still playable - they felt absolutely off back in the day but became appreciated when their successors absolutely fucked up the formula.
XIII onwards: high production value garbage chasing after every demographic but the fanbase of previous titles - abandon all hope or drown your time and tears in the MMO because it won't get any better, ever.
>>
>>384532407
maybe IX or XII
>>
>>384532293
>and I'm not a huge fan of the enemies attacking me when I'm choosing my abilities
Then why did you choose Active instead of Wait when starting the game? Go to config and change your battle mode settings.
>>
>>384532525

FF1 should always be recommended with a remake, PSP being the best version.
>>
>>384532694
I'm almost positive I have them set to wait.
>>
IMO 4 will give you the best feel for what a final fantasy game is, but don't play the DS version, it's too hard for a beginner.

You can go anywhere from there. I recommend 6 or 7.
>>
>>384532847
If you have it on Wait, enemies will still hit you when you're in the menu for selecting Attack/Spell/Item/Defend/Flee or whatever, but not when you're in a spell list or selecting a target.
>>
>>384526107
VI
VII (personal favorite)
Tactics
IX
X
XII
>>
>people are actually recommending the worst FFs (8, 13, 15)

It's like you guys don't want OP to get into the series at all.
>>
>>384533124
So what's stopping me from choosing Attack, waiting for my party members gauge to fill back up and then attacking? I just did that on some mobs and they didn't attack me at all. I have no idea if it's because I cheesed it or if because they were slow attackers.
>>
So between IV and VII, which is the most over rated Final Fantasy game? (Honorable mentiom to VI)

Even if you disagree with praise for the other games, I dont see any others being claimed as God's perfect game given upon mankind
>>
>>384533438
Because that's not how it works dummy. When enemies can't attack you, your ATB gauges are not filling either.
>>
>>384533476

Square Enix way overestimates IV by releasing it a million times, but the fanbase overrates VII.
>>
>>384533586
Makes sense. Seeing as you have some experience with the game, when does it pick up? I'm doing the first castle right now to try and find the queen and I'm not totally enjoying it. But I understand some games take a while to hit their stride.
>>
>>384534371
You'll be going through your first dungeon soon.
Then after you're back there will be some shenanigans in the present time that will lead to new era.
Around that time you will know whether the game clicks for you or not.
>>
>>384534371
not him, it's been a while but maybe not until you get the epoch (airship)
>>
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When did XII start getting all this love?
>>
>>384534587
That's literally the endgame, though.
You're only doing sidequests and preparing for the final boss once you obtain it.
>>
>>384529556

Uh no
>>
>>384534685
>When did XII start getting all this love?

Shills trying to viral the remaster.
>>
>>384534585
The castle with the missing queen isn't the first dungeon?
>>
>>384531192

You're an idiot and don't know anything about how the new license boards work. They're not "restrictions"
>>
>>384526107
none try the side games like tactics and even world of ff
>>
>>384534685
It's aged like fine wine.
>>
>>384535004
It's not technically a castle. I just assumed you're exploring the castle before heading to the dungeon under the cathedral.
>>
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>>384535123
>>384534950
Who was right?
>>
>>384526107
11
Followed by 14
>>
>>384534685
I'm happy I'm playing it for the first time now. I really needed something that actually feels and plays like FF after sitting through XIII trilogy and XV.
>>
>>384535176
Oh I'm an asshole. I forgot it was under the Cathedral. Looked like a castle from the layout. So beat this one, go to the present time and then a new era and if I don't like it by the time I'm in the new era then I should drop it. Gotcha.
>>
>>384535072
You realize the only way to get enjoyment out of WoFF is by playing most of the main-line games, right? That's the entire gimmick. If you OP wants to play a monster collecting game, he's better off playing Pokemon.
>>
>>384535330
If you feel the story is letting you down, you can try exploring that era a bit further because this is where the main goal of the game is revealed.
If gameplay doesn't resonate with you, though, feel free to drop it. You gave it a fair chance.
>>
>>384535179
Me. I'm always right. Unlike the other guy, who is always wrong.
>>
>>384535023
>You're an idiot

Right back at you, Anon. Being forced to use a class with limited access to equipment and skill licenses is absolutely a form of restriction.
>>
>>384535489
But how do you feel about FFXII?
>>
>>384535562
I already told you.
>>
>>384535562
I'm indifferent.
>>
>>384535646
So you like FFXII?
>>
>>384535474
>If gameplay doesn't resonate with you, though, feel free to drop it. You gave it a fair chance.
Thanks. Usually I drop games more because of the gameplay than the story. Maybe I'll try the ds version in the near future if this one doesn't click. I assume the ds version has some QOL improvements seeing as it's a newer version.
>>
7 was decent, 8 was awesome, 11 was awesome, 14 is fun
>>
>>384535728
The DS version primarily changes the endgame by adding new sidequests and new dungeons.
QOL changes are mostly touchscreen oriented.
>>
>>384535710
Please pay attention, I don't like repeating myself.
>>
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>>384526107
Estpolis 2

but seriously they're all mostly entertaining. I never got around to finishing nine so maybe not that (the Creator of Final Fantasy's favorite is that game tho) ! is a classic, and my first real "Let's play" involved this game On a Let's Play Forum. It had one person playing through as a solo Black mage and one doing a solo white mage. The other posters got involved by giving information like names (Ika and Ruga, for the light/dark theme) and making choices when the players asked. They complited screenshots and told of what transpired those last few days they were playing through writing. It was way better than watching fools bumbling with basic controls.

FFTactics for strategy is a nice off shoot, and someone else mentioned Vagrant Story, which is also fun game with way different mechanics (Battle system closer to Parasite Eve if I remember)

Everyone loves to hype up 6 and hate on 7 but I think they're mostly similar games. Both have entertaining stories and great characters, essentially the same battle system(although FF7 has Materia). I had a lot of fun with 8 and the Card Game and actually got all the cards and card masters on the ship(the timer in my game with from white 99:99 to blue 99:99 to red 99:99. If you can get past the Japanese High School Drama-ish (it was apparently popular in Japan at the time)

Didn't play 4 and 5 until later and blew through them rather quickly so I can't say. I liked 4's story and 5's job system.

didn't play 2 and 3 til way later, It's tough going back sometimes but people have fully translated them (hell I'm sure they were re-released and I know one was remade)
>>
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>>384536261
X. Oh boy. The story is cute, it's nice unraveling the mystery. The voice acting can be atrocious at time but is decent for the most part. Blitzball is a blast and the sphere grid was rock solid. (Path of Exile (Diablo 2 like game) used this sphere grid system in conjunction with a gem system similar to materia and it was amazing, sidetracked sorry). I had fun re-arraging the sheregrid and suck a ton of hours into this game as well. Never played X-2 but people liked it as far as I know. I suppose it's kind of a cop out for Tidus? Again, I never played it.

Honestly it probably depends on what type of person you are. I know Lufia 2 looks kind of RPGmaker but it is a really fun game. Good luck
>>
>>384529564
>you wouldnt notice any difference between it and the NES version.

The GBA version is drastically different looking though. The original has that rough D'n'D look to it, while the gba version brings the style more inline with the later games.
>>
>>384535939
Alright, thanks anon. I'll stick with CT for a bit and see what's my take on it. Worst case scenario I still have two Ys games on my vita I can beat.
>>
>>384535529

It's not since a single job is stronger and has more licenses than the entire jack of all trades master of non bullshit of the original license board
>>
>>384532293

No wonder you hate Chrono Trigger if you're playing the shitty Playstation port. The load times are absolutely atrocious and didn't exist at all on the SNES. Play the DS port
>>
>>384536784
>It's not since a single job is stronger and has more licenses than the entire jack of all trades master of non bullshit of the original license board

>Things that are blatantly false
>>
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>>384534685
I've loved XII ever since I played the demo of it that came with DQ VIII. I still have that disc in fact.

https://youtu.be/kZrOqNkA-d4

https://youtu.be/F6jnkgwcQRk


Hell, it's been my favorite FF since I knew which dev team was behind the game.
>>
>>384536907
I would but I would not be able to get the DS version in time before my flight. Plus I don't wanna really spend the money.
>>
>>384526107
start with 4 or maybe 10
>>
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>>384526648
the only reason to play 9 is for best waifu
>>
>>384526107
4 through 9 are the best in my opinion. Can't go wrong with any of those. Either Final Fantasy VI or VII would be a good place to start I think.
>>
>>384537431
I agree. I love Beatrix!
>>
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>>384537431
Agreed
>>
>>384537431

She's a good character, but only a furry would make her a waifu.
>>
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>>384529474
I've always assumed that was true, but the recent Famitsu poll of the reader's favorite RPGs has VI but not V. I wonder if it's just their sample or if opinions have changed.
>>
>>384538314
Translated
20. The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt (PS4/XBO/PC) - 72
19. Final Fantasy VIII (PS/PC) - 74
18. Final Fantasy IX (PS/PC/iOS/Android) - 75
17. MOTHER2 (SFC) - 78
16. Final Fantasy VI (SFC/PS/GBA/iOS/Android) - 81
15. Dragon Quest IV (FC/PS/DS/iOS/Android) - 82
14. Persona 4 Golden (Vita) - 90
13. Xenogears (PS) - 91
12. Final Fantasy X (PS2/PS3/PS4/Vita/PC) - 100
11. Xenoblade (Wii/3DS) - 58
10. Final Fantasy XV (PS4/XBO) - 110
09. Persona 3 (PS2/PSP) - 131
08. NieR:Replicant (PS3) - 151
07. Genso Suikoden II (PS) - 155
06. Dragon Quest V (DS/SFC/PS2/iOS/Android) - 165
05. Final Fantasy VII (PS/PS4/PC/iOS/Android) - 169
04. NieR:Automata (PS4/PS) - 177
03. Chrono Trigger (SFC/PS/DS/MOBI/iOS/Android) - 194
02. Dragon Quest III (FC/SFC/GBC/MOBI/iOS/Android) - 218
01. Persona 5 (PS4/PS3) - 256
>>
>>384538389
1-9 is good taste. 10 is lol what, 11-20 is mostly okay.
>>
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>>384526668
slightly updated list feel free to add any more
>>
>>384526107
IV, VI, VII, are pretty much agreed the best mainline games. Some people really like IX but I haven't played it yet.

Tactics is good, but it can feel kind of "empty/lifeless" at a certain point.

Bravely Default is the best classic FF in decades, even if it doesn't share the name.
>>
>>384540731
fuck i missed one
>>
When does XII pick up? I'm in giza plains fetching this gay sunstone
>>
>>384541791

Shortly after that
>>
>>384541791
I'm the biggest XII fan I know, and the beginning part is kinda slow. Soon after you get the stone, you'll head to the palace and then the sewers, where you'll meet the rest of the party and it picks up then.
>>
>>384526107
Bravely Default
>>
Can/should you play X-2 without playing X?

Can/should you play 13-2 without playing 13?
>>
>>384526107
IX is the best one

III, IV, V, VI, VII, VIII and XII are also good picks

controversial ones are I, II, X, X-2, XIII, XIII-2 and XV. You might like them but they're not praised by the fanbase as much as those I mentioned above.
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