Why aren't paladins ever DEX?

dex is for gays and paladins are the straightest dudes around

DEX is for assassins, thieves and rogues in general.
Paladins are too pure for that.

>>384500662
why arnt they just using swords?
spears just seem harder

Well the most broken paladin build is a fucking ranged build so Im pretty sure there are loads of dex paladins.

>>384501494
cuz they greeks n trojans n shit

Because paladins wield 2 handed weapons, and 2 handed weapons almost always scale off of STR.
Paladins who wield one handed weapons are just clerics who follow more rules.

Ah yes, the pool cue behind back maneuver.

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>>384500662

But desu...I am a DEX paladin

Spear masterrace

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>>384500793
>paladins are the straightest dudes around

>>384500662
HECTOR!

>>384500814
Dex means mobility. It's nothing about purity.

>>384501964
this

>>384501494
Because spears are objectively superior to swords in almost every way.

>>384502216

It is a valid maneuver if you are going to use your neck as a lever to hit with the spear

>>384502476
Taric is closer to a Geomancer than a Paladin since he derives his power from gems.

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>>384502476
>using LoL character as an example of an RPG class

>>384500662

you can make a dex paladin in UO

>>384502823
Lol is the best rpg around dude.

>>384500662
Because str IS dex, the separation of the 2 is a D&D meme.

>>384502476
>axe
>face and arms exposed
Shiggy diggy

>weapons rarely have split scaling
Why the fuck. Spears should be 50/50 strength/Dex and shorter swords having .3 dex scaling.

Aren't paladins mainly charisma though?

>>384502281
that's some well done fashion souls

>>384502703
How so?
>bait their spear
>grab it
>shank them

>>384501494
Swords are last resort weapons, most ancient warfare was done with spears, bows, and various other more reliable weaponry

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Fuck DEX Paladins, we need more STR Hunters.

>Hurling javelins and potions/explosives every which way
>Carving up wildlife with a battleaxe
>Flexing that composite longbow

>>384500662

Actually, in D&D 5e, it's very easy to make a Paladin who relies on DEX. In 4e, a Paladin who relies on CHA for their attack powers can afford to invest in DEX instead of STR, and in Pathfinder, a DEX-based archer Paladin is an exceptionally strong damage dealer.

>>384503146
I'd like to see you pull that off in reality

>>384503146
stop

>>384503167
>Pathfinder

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because you probably play diablo 3

>>384503146
>grab enemy spear
>he blocks your attack with his shield because you're a fucking dumbass, and now you have a backwards spear and a sword, and he shanks you

>>384503146
That's when you pull out the second spear

>>384502703
Only groups retard. Otherwise they are fucking stupid as fuck to use 1v1. The spear was a weapon produced so the peasant masses could be recruited into the armies and 3v1 soldiers who were trained better than them while keeping distance. It's a fucking awful weapon otherwise in a open area if you are evenly matched or outnumbered.

>>384503315
>>he blocks your attack with his shield because you're a fucking dumbass, and now you have a backwards spear and a sword, and he shanks you


>I pull the spear as I get knocked back taking his spear away from him

>now I shank his ass freely

>>384503430
>>384503315
>I shoot both of you with my gun because I'm from Texas and don't have time for LARPing bullshit

>>384500662

there are some, usually called Monk

>>384503430
He shanks you with his sword dumbass, you took his spear and now you're basically defenseless and he still has a shield. And all this is assuming you were able to actually get close enough to him to grab the spear in the first place without getting fucking stabbed, which is impossible considering you seem to have no shield

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>>384502703
>*breaks your spear*
>*cleaves you in half*

>>384500662
Troja had some nice fights

Achilles was cool

>>384503537
steers and queers ur a gay. owned.

>>384503658
The guy in your picture has a polearm, because polearms are objectively superior

>>384503397
How fucking dumb are you?
>Otherwise they are fucking stupid as fuck to use 1v1
Spears have better reach than a sword. That's it. The argument is done. Unless it's a master swordsman going up against a retard. If you try to go against a spear with a sword, he just needs to stay back and keep poking until he gets a good poke in.

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>>384503315
>>384503430
>>384503658
>teleports behind you

>>384503315

Anon, reality is nothing like OPs webm.

First of all, fighting is much quicker and more aggressive than that webm, which is effectively a choreographed dance.
But more importantly, you'll pretty much never fight someone one on one, especially with a spear. You'll have guys to the left of you, guys to the right of you and a whole lot of guys behind you. One of the spears major strengths is it could be used in a formation, while a weapon that needs swinging couldn't be because you're likely to hit your own guys with it.

>>384503783
don't bother, the mouthbreathers on this board get all of their information from dark souls

>>384503783
They are also a fuck ton heavier and can't change direction on the fly you dumbass. Easy as fuck to avoid.

>>384503578
NOPE

YOURE MOVING THE GOALPOSTS NOW

He had only a spear and a shield, that's it. No extra weapons bullshit you just pulled out of your ass

I have a sword and shield

>bait his spear
>he attacks
>I grab spear
>he hits me with shield
>as I get knocked back I take spear with me
>he no longer has spear and only has a shield

I win, you cannot win this argument. Stop moving the goalposts

>>384503783
>what are parry windows

Look at this fucking noob.

>>384504008

If you're holding a sword and a shield how the fuck do you grab his spear? And how the hell do you somehow have enough strength to pull it from him?

>>384503151
Javelins and darts need to be in more games, I mean they were very common back then but you pretty much never see them in any media let alone videogames.

>>384503167
>archer Paladin
...what?

>1 Swordsman vs. 1 Spearman
Sword wins due to close-range constraints

>100 Swordsmen vs. 100 Spearmen
Spears win because they synergize way better in numbers.

>>384503760
Nah that's because I was too lazy to find a pic with a zweihander.

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axefags defend this

i cant imagine that axes are any different to swords in terms of disadvantages to spears. Is this a matter of disintegrating reality for video game balance, like nerfing shotguns?

>>384504000
>They are also a fuck ton heavier
Not really.
>can't change direction on the fly you dumbass
And swords can? Nigger, you don't use a spear by sending it fucking flying ahead of you with complete disregard. Like I said, he'll just keep poking and there's nothing the sword can do about it because of its shorter reach.

>>384504008
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O8RWLxlzTiM
Have fun catching that

>>384504231

Actually spears have such massive range that 1 swordsman vs 1 spearman will usually result in the spearman winning. Provided they're both capable fighters of around the same skill level anyway.

Spears just have such a massive range advantage a swordsman cannot get close to someone using a spear.

>>384504440
>slashing with a spear

doesn't count

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DEX based ranged Paladin(azn version)?

>>384504554
>n-no fair!!

>>384504440
Spears really get a hard wrap in games, it kindof sucks since they seem so versatile.

>>384504335
Fencer here. You are a dumbass. I trained swordsman can absolutely change direction meet swing. It's like the first thing you learn to do.

Also you are both retarded. 1v1, knives are absolutely the best weapons.

>>384505048
I told you not to move the goalposts and then you went and did it again. Your argument is denied.

>>384505127
>Fencer
>sword
lmao

>>384504440
>academy of historical fencing

LARP fags don't count.

>that footwork

Absolutely degenerate.

>>384505251
>he thinks they only do foil in fencing

Must suck to have a public school education.

>>384505187
You don't even know what moving the goalposts means.

>>384504314
Axes are heavier than swords, that's about the only real advantage to them over a spear that a sword doesn't have.

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>>384501494
On the contrary, anybody can use a spear with relatively little training - ultimately the amount to little more than a pointed stick. Swords by comparison are a bit more involved, for lack of a better word (not to mention the relative cost of each).

The Greeks tended to view swords as a sidearm, of sorts, to be used in the absence of a spear or pike (the latter, the sarissa, coming into use chiefly with the Macedonians).

>>384505998
The sword has almost always been a sidearm throughout history. It wasn't even the primary weapon of knights. There's just no sense in restricting yourself to the sword when you could use weapons that are considerably more useful in a proper battle setting such as polearms.

>>384504486
This.

Like all pre-gun warfare, melee weapon types have situational advantages and disadvantages.

Most knights carried multiple weapons on the battlefield, because weapons break, and you can't just carry 4 poleaxes into battle.

There are certainly 1 on 1 situations where a swordsman will beat a spearman, assuming equal skill, but most of the time the weapon with reach comes out on top.

Plus, this debate has completely different answers depending on whether we're talking about a melee in a town, formation battle in a field, 1 on 1 duel, presence of cavalry and missile support, etc.

>>384502281
>unique and boss weapons force the STR/FTH pairing meme
>it's actually much fucking worse than DEX/FTH because DEX increases casting speed

>>384504008
>>384504554
>>384505187
LOL

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>>384506156
This is also true.

Ironically enough, even Japan's vaunted samurai, who are known chiefly for their swords,would have used them as secondary weapons. Instead, the bow (owing to their heritage as mounted archers) and polearms would have been their weapons of choice (or even firearms following their introduction to Japan in the 16th century).

Weebs on suicide watch.

>>384505998
THICC

>>384500793
fpbp

>>384500662
Paladins don't need DEX since no evil can escape the light of Justice!

>>384507585
Dude.

Gay.

>>384507748
The light of Justice isn't gay.
You're gay.

>>384500662
Hector was literally too good for this world :-(

>>384508212
Unfortunately his brother was a fag and justice was not on his side.

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>>384500662
well done, Brad Pitt, well done

HOWEVER

>>384503397
https://youtu.be/O8RWLxlzTiM
Think again.

>>384509136
Why a buckler tho and not a decent sized shield

Fun movie, no idea why its so hated.

>>384509274
I think if either had a bigger shield this would be incredibly different, apparently bucklers were more common that heaters shields in real life though, you could carry them on your belt instead of lugging a plank of wood around with you.

Why isn't this thread deleted? Mod is a clinical retard so going by his logic this should be pruned

>>384508653
Paris was greatest fag of ancient times.
>Dooming your family and country because you just COULDNT keep your dick in your pants

>>384505127

>this is what letting video games influence your perception of life looks like

>>384503553
high level monks are monsters

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>>384509525
I have no idea how I was suppose to empathize with him
>muh true love
What of the love of his countrymen, friends and even family, who he WILLINGLY gets killed just to get his own dick wet. Think about it, how many people with "true love" did he get killed for his own.
>given sword of troy, the symbol of the strength of Troy
>gives it to literally a complete stranger hes never met and runs away
>kills Achilles by accident by running into a scene and firing a bow, Achilles was trying to save someone

A katana could easily slice through a spear (or naginata if you want to be accurate) thus rendering it useless

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>>384502476
I'm not seeing the problem. You some kind of sexually insecure homo boy?

STR/INT is the only way I build my pala

>>384501494
Because spears have reach and are more compatible with a shield. Turns out ancient combat wasn't like an anime

>>384510425
Were we even supposed to emphatise with him? He was fucking cunt entire fucking movie.

>>384510590
That's a battlemage you tard

STR/FAI is the only way to go

>>384510885
Ive heard people call the romance, I quote: "sweet" and "heartwarming" in regards to his plot at least. There are people that didnt seem to notice that he did literally everything wrong that could be done, and focused on the true love trumps all shit, even if it means getting thousands of people killed including your own family, guess he didnt love them enough.

>>384500662
What was the point of the sidewards movement with the spear?

>>384501494
Even Oda Nobunaga realized spears are the best weapon. Any pleb can wield them and fucking wreck armored Samurai.

>>384510425
What is this?

>>384511146
I bet these people were all women.
Every person with i talk about troy thought that paris was cunt and Hector was best man.
Odysseus was coolest on greek side.

>>384509029
WE

>>384502703
This. Anyone who suggests the contrary is a fool.

>>384511221
Sideways movement? Do you mean the swing he did after he thrust forward using the shield? I believe he was going for a sort of slice to the arm / face, spears are meant to be 'use the pointy end' but they can still have sharp sides to them.

Paladins are based on knights, knights wear big fucking heavy armour where DEX counts for shit

>>384509029
what series

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>>384503148
Polearms are most effective when used as a group. Pretty much any other weapon is more preferable in a dueling situation

>>384511146
I think they were referring to brad pitt's romance with the preistess

>>384513661
Polearms are most effective period.

>>384500662
Why dodge attacks when surely your god will protect you from harm?

>Carry a sword on an adventure
>look swag af and ready to take on anything. mobility isn't hampered at all

>Carry around a spear
>Look like a total dope. Can't make your way through thick vegetation. Peasants laugh at you as you pass by

>>384513861
Nah someone said they thought Paris was the true bad guy of the movie and that where it came from.

>>384513992
No they weren't you fucking retard. The fact that the sword in all its form is just about ubiquitous throughout human history - despite being more costly to produce, and being more difficult to create and wield than the spear - should be evidence enough that it's a highly effective weapon.

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Because Paladins wear plate.

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>>384514946
>leather
>studded leather
>hide

>>384514946
has there ever been a GM who gave a single shit about weight?

>>384515735
Most of them do. That's why they don't have Halflings wearing human sized plate.

>>384514364
>Spear hindering mobility
>Spear looks silly

Your grasping at straws a bit there buddy.

>>384500662
put everything into strength. Fuck HP, fuck dex, fuck lint, fuck luck.

Max strength ASAP in every game. There is no force like brute force.

I play games like I live life. I get by with sheer will alone.

>>384516561
>I get by with sheer will alone.
>put everything into strength.
?????

>>384516645
What don't you understand, shithead?

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Always DEX.

>>384516645
Do I really need to explain this? Shouldn't it be fucking obvious?

Like putting a square in circular hole. It can be accomplished if you just try hard enough and make it work.

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>>384514364
I'll pick both and there's nothing you can do to stop me.

>>384517047
>>384516645
Raw physical strength has absolutely nothing to do with willpower.
Just because you jammed a square in a circular hole doesn't mean you have strong will, it just means you're an imbecile who has trouble identifying squares.

>>384504000
Why would a stick with a knife on if be heavier?

>>384517347
>Raw physical strength has absolutely nothing to do with willpower.
He isn't saying it does, genius. Stop taking yourself so seriously.

>>384517347
god you're fucking dense

>>384517482
>>384517459
>put everything into strength.
>I play games like I live life. I get by with sheer will alone.

I take it you were merely pretending?

>>384517347
ITS ABOUT PUTTING IT ALL IN ONE STAT AND MAKING IT FUCK WORK NO MATTER WHAT

>>384505127
So you learn teleport AFTER changing direction mid-swing during fencing?

>>384517684
Pretending to do what? Put a whole thought into your post before you press the submit button.

>>384509525
He was the Kevin Hart of his time.

>>384517347
Ignore this guy he is autistic and struggles to understand a joke

>>384500662
Because you need strength and con to ride a horse proper. Wisdom to see shit better while riding fast, and Charisma to look cool. Fuck, even asking such a stupid question would get you banned from Charlemagne's group.

>>384517957
>needing STR, CON, WIS, and CHA to be any good
Being a Paladin is suffering.

>>384518117
>play multiclass Rogue/Monk
>Need literally every stat

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Why does /v/ have such a hard on for paladins?

>>384518117
Not half as bad as Monks.

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>>384518265
More importantly why DON'T you?

>>384503289
cute bird

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>>384518265
I just want a game with an undead paladin who was brought back because the current chosen one either jobbed, or betrayed everyone.

>>384518740
>undead paladin
Undead are Evil aligned by default.
Paladins can only be Good. What you're looking for is a Blackguard.

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>>384502476

>fucking despise the paladin aesthetic
>it's usually the only way to roll holy bowman

you fags will never know my suffering. At least most games nowadays do gishes fairly well

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>>384500662
> Paladins or Knight's Tier 2 are always a tanks or semi-healers with mid white magic like... this outrageous and handsome guy.

>>384509029
I've said it before and I'll say it again, races getting changed happens all the time both ways, there's no reason to get buttmad about this happening on a low budget bbc(heh) series

>>384503146
>he knows you will grab his spear
>as soon as you take a hold of the spear, he immediately drops it and closes the distance with a quick step
>with a mighty swing, his scimitar flies out of his scabbard, and carves your throat in a magnificent swing
>as you lay dying in your lifeblood, the only thing to accompany you to the afterlife is your regret of trying to grab the spear

>>384518740
>who is Sir Dan

If you try and grab someone's spear they will just yank you to the ground because the spearholders grip is superior for pushing/pulling.

>>384514946
>plate armor being heavier than scale or chain mail
I know it's tradition at this point to keep it that way but 5 minutes of research shows exactly the opposite so this will never not bother me

>>384505998
japs are always depitced as muh sword wielding samurai too even though their main weapons were the spear and bow

>>384519403
Ok

>>384514842
What does ubiquity have to do with effectiveness? For every type of sword there's two types of spears, it or a simple club was mankind's first weapon. Even in this thread the ubiquitousness of the spear is apparent, do people mean a spear for footmen or a pike for anti-cavalry, maybe a spear with a leaf shaped tip nobody knows because you can say "spear" and everyone comes up with something different but they're all a spear.

>swords are at the top of the fucking chart when it comes to aesthetics
>they're actually mid tier at best in actual use

what are some other historical /k/ facts that will leave me disappointed?

>>384519403
>chain mail is about 25 lbs, Plate was up tp 110lbs

>>384519324
Coward who died like an ass and got 2nd chance? He's nowhere near paladin tho.

>>384519403
Chainmail has a much better distribution of it's weight.

>>384519036
>holy bowman
that's gay af

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I love the iliad and bronze age so time to spam bronze age pics.

Fight scenes in movies are so fucking retarded 90% of the time

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>>384519895
>shit talking sir dan
>ever

>>384500662
is this the dark souls of cinematography?

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Leave now edgy swordfags.

>>384511325
pleb with spear wins vs trained warrior with bladed folded over 1000 times

really makes you think

>>384504193
>darts common
were they really?

>>384501494
Swords are literally meme weapons.

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>>384519895
>coward
He charged in first in a battle and had the glory of being the first of the honored dead.
What's your fucking problem trying to pick on a war hero anon?

>>384519901
It's the other way around retard, chainmail hangs on your shoulders, full plate has plates strapped to the specific body part that they protect, plate armor has better weight distribution but weighs more chainmail is lighter but tends to hang on your shoulders and if you have a belt your waist and that's it.

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>>384509029

Funny thing is if they want to go extended lore canon for the Iliad you've got Memnon of Aethiopia, the grandson of Zeus and king of Aethiopia who gives Achillies one of his hardest fights and Zeus loves Memnon so much he forbids any Greek Gods from interfering.

The actual original epic with him is lost but there's a fanfiction of it by diodorus Siculus.

>>384520228
I'd put money down that more people have died to darts over the years than swords.

>>384518942
>you're evil just because you don't have flesh on your bones

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>>384520268

More titties.

>>384520264
That and plate can cut the weight by only cover what needs to be covered, aka the front of a person.

>>384504440
>the one time he wins at 2:36 he finally closes in the spear instead of keeping distance like a tard

Just fucking close in on him, when he fake a move, there won't be time to react and you can just stab repeatedly at close

>>384507024
you mean my shitty nippon pig iron folded hundreds of times isn't a good choice of weaponry?

>>384520334
No, you're evil because you're animated by negative energies.

heavy full plates of armor, the people in the webm aren't paladins

what's a paladin

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=thuh3dnCrkU

>>384520521
>neutral clerics and use both positive and negative energies

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>>384518382

I wish more games dealt with mounted combat. Mount and Blade has had such staying power in part because of that but it's criminal how underrepresented it is.

>>384520316
lol no way

>>384520146
what's with those puffy red things on Chinese weapons? Are they just for aesthetics?

>>384500662
This is the movie 16 year olds unironically post in "Movies women will never understand"-threads. Putrid action scenes. The jump stab is basically the only good thing to come out of it. 300 is superior in every way.

>>384520268
Imagine how much better the ending of Troy would have been if Briseis' tits were out, back when people wanted to see Rose Byrne's tits

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>>384520605

>>384520659

Probably just for aesthetics, it's little pompom/tassle things.

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What's the difference between Paladins and Clerics?

Wasn't the Trojan War supposedly 1500 years before the Persians even found Greece?
>>384520605
>>384520342
>>384520268

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>>384500793
>Paladins
>hetero

>>384520316
I think throwing daggers and stuff like that are mostly fiction.

>*gets a bow*
>*gets on a horse*
pssh, i'll have this world kiddo

>>384519870
"up to 110lbs" being ceremonial armors or jousting gear. Actual used-in-battle plate was much lighter, and because it wasn't as thick as chain mail and wasn't covering the whole body it weighed less

>>384519901
You've got it backwards famicom. Chainmail hung entirely from the shoulders, occasionally it had a belt or a tie to give it another point of support but not usually. Plate mail, on the other hand, was fastened to the relevant body part.

>>384520590
Negative energy is Evil by default, hence why using Harm spells (which are Negative energy based) actually heals Undead.
If Negative energy is the only thing keeping you "alive", you are Evil.
Neutral Clerics are neutral because they can manipulate both, they don't give a fuck.

>>384520521
>D&D says shit about undead, therefore all undead in any setting are evil
Stop with this, anon

>>384520787
Paladins focus more on martial combat, clerics focus more on spellcasting

>>384520787
Paladins are closer to the concept of knighthood, and clerics closer to priesthood, while still being "soldiers of the faith"

>>384502476
>>384510516
whats gay about

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>>384520820
This. Buttblasted swordfags and spearfags have no skill and are jealous.

>>384520898
Regardless of setting, Undead defy life, making them evil.

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>>384520228

Late Romans had the Plumbata, little lead weighted darts. I can't say if it supplanted the regular javelin or throwing spear but I believe Vegetius in that 5th century treatise went off about how much better they were because their range effectively allowed a legionary to deal with people in bow range, and you could carry more than a throwing spears

>>384520704

Hektor's wife Andromache's actress has kind of a weird face and she seemed to suffer from anorexia judging from pics I've seen but I did find her rather pretty in that exotic sort of way. Body wise yeah Briseis had the best, though Helen's actress was good in being a standard beauty. Who would you cast today for Helen of Troy to get that "unbelievable beauty that could start a pseudo world war of the eastern mediterranean"? Porn star or otherwise. My mind always goes to titties so I just think of Gemma atkinson

>>384520801

Around 1200s or so, so the Persians arrived to kick out the Lydians in the 500s BC.

>>384520820
*splits due to constant infighting

we wuz khans

>>384520787
Paladins are holy warriors and A cleric is a spell caster with Godly power

>>384520787
in reality, cleric is just a name given to men of the cloth, while paladins was titles specifically used for Charlemagne's men

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If you think about it, Scorpions are essentially the Paladins of Animals, and they're usually considered more STR and DEF than DEX.

>>384514842
the sword is the first tool developed in human history solely for the purpose of killing other humans, of course its going to have a more lasting association with warfare than the spear, which is used for a variety of functions. it doesnt change the fact that in a 1v1 fight reach is everything and the polearm user is going to have the advantage every time against a sword user.

the romans fucking HATED spear users in the arena because they were seen as unmanly to use 1v1 and they still gave the spear using gladiators immense odds against the more armored/close ranged types of fighters.

>>384520968
Play the divinity games, the undead are the biggest moralfag church types around

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>>384502925
You have to be baiting.

>>384521070
Not just men, his elite cavalry.

>>384520968
brook from one piece isn't evil

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Leave NOW weaponfags.

>>384500662

I used to roll dex based paladins on DAoC

Full plate armor using a rapier and a buckler

good times

Recommend me a VIDEO GAME with good melee weapons that isn't Dark Souls

>>384519947
I know, right? who wants to be a moralfag relying on a divine source for their power, while also being a rangedfag firing from a distance? Not many people, I'll tell you what, but that leaves plenty of room for me to be yooneek and stunt on these fools with my arrows of divine justice

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>>384520801

Adding for around 1200 or maybe 1100, that German dude in the late 19th century found the ruins of Troy and while the layer he thought was the troy of the iliad wasn't it, there was a layer in that range that did seem to be burnt down/looted/sacked around the 1200-1100. I'm iffy on the specific dates but that 1300-1100 period has a lot of good stuff. Ramessess II and the battle of Kadesh, the Hebrews mythological exile from Egypt and arrival/wars in Canaan, the generation of Heracles leading to the generation of the seven against thebes leading to the Iliadic generation and then finally the Heraclideae (Heracles' kids come back and conquer all the Greeks but the Ionian Athenians)

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>>384520228
Not after 13 century as much but yea. At close range you would throw them over the front line and they would come down on peoples heads and uperbody. They would also be used like Javelins and fired at shields to weight them down and make the shield user less effective, a javelin was better at this because of its size, but darts were far easier to throw, javelins needed a somewhat skilled user, a dart needs only a strong arm.

>>384520813
They werent used like a throwing knife, you throw them up in the air towards the enemy ranks, or like throwing a rock, its not about killing when doing this its about specifically hitting shields as said above. They were also fired from slings, and slings go way back.

>>384521229
mountainblade
Chivalry
for "honor"
demons souls

>>384520968
says who?
in some settings, undead just happen naturally, with no need for a spellcaster
in other settings, there are gods of death that necromancers worship
D&D and it's retarded negative energy bullshit are pointless to argue about

besides the point, what does defying life have to do with anything if say, the undead in question is simply just an animated corpse or bones?
without manipulating souls, necromancy in most settings is neutral, the only downside is townsfolk and holyfags getting upset about "disrespecting the dead."
they're already dead, and I ain't using their souls in my spells, so either get off my back or be calm and rational about asking me to not use your great grandfather's skeleton to help rebuild my tower

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What's the most HEMAfag game available?

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>>384520787
The TL;DR of it is DnD

The long version is that cleric was the original melee healing class and paladins were introduced as a prestige class for fighters who multi-classed into clerics and vice versa, the class was so popular that in later editions paladin was made into a base class option alongside fighters and clerics.

And another TL;DR in terms of holiness,
cleric>paladin
in terms of melee ability
paladin>cleric
both can be thought of as hybrid caster/melee classes though.

>>384521229

Dark Messiah of Might and Magic

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>>384521084
They're heavily armored, and in several mythological stories or fables, such as the tale of Scorpius and the Scorpion and the Frog, the scorpion tends to act as a force of good, killing evil for the greater good such as Orion and the Frog, usually at the cost of its own life. In addition, the Scorpion that fought against Orion was also sent from the Gods which is also fairly similar to Paladins.

>>384504196
>Archery in PF throws out more attacks more reliably than any other build in the game because full attacking is a shit mechanic and ranged attacks negate its problems
>Smiting in PF applies large accuracy and damage bonuses for all attacks you make against the target you pick until they're dead
What's hard to understand?

>>384521207
is that...is that a bench?

would just like to point out to all these morons saying that swords are better in 1v1 but not in formations that the greatest empire of antiquity was built upon heavily drilled shortsword users fighting in formations more rigorous than anything else for centuries in either direction. polearms are superior weapons but to imply that swords arent good for formation fighting is pretty fucking stupid.

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>>384504008
>>384503315
>>384503537
>>384519270
oh my fucking god you stupid ass keyboard warrior larping fags need to shut the fuck up and stop arguing about this stupid ass shit that has been proved literally thousands of years ago

there is a reason why the vast majority of soldiers were armed with spears, and even the people who could afford a sword preferred to use some other weapon and keep it as a sidearm instead.

>>384521542
>they're already dead, and I ain't using their souls in my spells
But that's exactly what necromancy is, manipulating the souls of the dead. By raising random villages you are damning their souls to their corpse and stopping them from moving on.

>>384502925
What are you roleplaying as? A faggot?

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>>384521381

What I would love to do/have done as a setting is a kind of "Myths and Kings" of that late bronze age period. Play loose and fast with historicity when applicable as you could do a kind of age of mythology approach of the Eastern Mediterranean and Egypt through over to India. Let the Iliad, Ramessess II and kadesh, whichever of the Jews was the real warrior-leader before the kingdom got established so not david but maybe Joshua or whoever blew the horns at Jericho, Hammurabi of Babylon at the same time as Gilgamesh and Enkidu, the best part of the Kayanid mythological Shahnameh with Rostam and the Turanians and then also the Bhagava Ghita and that grand Pan-India war of the Mahabharata exist at the same time.

Go accurate when possible with aesthetics or fighting style but also go high fantasy.

>>384521643
A bench was considered a legitimate martial arts weapon, no joke, the problem was that it never saw actual combat unlike staves and swords etc so noone actually knows how effective it is, since noone looks at a weapon rack and thinks the fucking rack is the best weapon to take to a fight.
Im hoping someone can find the martial arts excerpt about this.

>>384510425
>>384511894

Into the Badlands

It's so gloriously silly and a real good show to boot.

>>384522034
As expected of the country to produce Jackie Chan, Ladders vs Benches Ultimate Trouble Match when?

>>384521841
youre really reaching with a universe-specific definition of necromancy. in the elder scrolls, for example, the soul and the body were both legal to use at some point (made illegal in later games because we cant have moral ambiguity in a bethsoft game made after 2011) and there was a clear distinction between the two. raising a dead body in tes is just using whatever is left over, manipulation of the soul is in shit like enchanting (using souls to imbue items with magical properties).

>>384521229
gothic 2

>>384521841
>manipulating the souls of the dead
not always
again, if you're just animating corpses, bones, and other such things, who cares?
so long as you don't touch the soul, you aren't actually doing anything wrong
sure, some church asshole might say you shouldn't be digging through fresh graves, but they already did their holy last rites, and the soul is gone from this mortal plane, so screw it
I mean, yea, if they ask me nicely, I'll dig somewhere else for my skellies, but if they're jackasses about it and start quoting scripture to get me to stop, I'm just gonna ignore them

What's the best game to play paladin in?

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>>384521578
In addition, Serqet, the scorpion goddess is also seen as a goddess of medicine, and her name can be interpreted in two different ways which have vastly different meanings.
Scorpion venom also while deadly, can also be used in medicine for good, much like a Paladin being able to use holy energy for both healing allies and damaging forces of evil.

Also, for those arguing over which weapon is superior, weapons tend to have benefits that others don't possess, and it's important to be adaptable and not rely on solely one. For example, the tarantula in this webm relies on its venomous fangs, while the scorpion uses both its claws and venomous sting, using both of them, it is able to defeat the less adaptable tarantula despite its larger size.

Paladin Weapon Tiers

>God Tier
Faith

>Top Tier
Spears

>Good Tier
Maces, Halberds

>Boring Shit Tier
Swords

>>384522414
>again, if you're just animating corpses, bones, and other such things, who cares?
The generic definition of Necromancy is evoking the souls/spirits of the dead.
What is animating these corpses you are using o rebuilt your tower? Your generic arcane type magic can't animate dead bodies.
You either use the D&D Negative Energy approach, or the soul manipulation approach.
Face it necrofag, you are evil.

>>384500662
The amount of times they change camera angles in this is disgusting, I get that it makes it more hyped and flashy but I will never not notice this stuff. First 3 seconds they have 5 different angle changes.

>>384522679
>you have to use MY SPECIFIC DEFINITION of this school of magic because:
hey buddy have you considered fucking yourself?

>>384521564
>in terms of melee ability
>paladin>cleric
There are at least two editions where that's not true

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>>384510516
>>384502476
>Taric was originally black
>They decided to turn him gay
>Black bois got mad and they turned taric white and gay
Do people even play League of Cancer anymore?

>>384522679
>false dichotomy

>>384522608
DID A BUG FINALLY BEAT SCORPION?

We all agree that Paris was a bitch right?

>>384523019
Not Emperor Scorpion

>>384522961
>>384522841
I said "generic" definition.
It's generic because it applies to the vast majority of settings. By pretending it works differently YOU are the one who is bringing his own specific definition of magic.
Stop trying to justify your evil ways.

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>>384522879
Well one could just avoid the confusion and make being a priest or pastor a class and get rid of cleric altogether.

>>384523293
D&D and similar games made by the same guys are the only settings I know of that talk about negative energy
Sure, these games are the most known, but that doesn't mean much, especially when even within these games, people still debate about the positive and negative energies

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>>384514842
you fundamentally misunderstand ancient warfare.

Your sword is worthless to a line of spears.Throughout history the spear has been the primary weapon.It allows you to kill without putting yourself endanger you can take on cavalry and multiple opponents.

The sword is status symbol they are expensive compared to pole arms and their sole function is to kill people they are a statement of intent and main side arm the handgun of the day if you will, but certainly not your rife.

Why is the sword today seen as a "status symbol" when in history, especially European history everyone from religious leaders, monarchs, heads of famous houses have been pictured with maces, scepters and axes?

Why are swords the traditional dragonslaying weapon when St. George is portrayed slaying dragons with a lance?

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>>384522608
If you likened the scorpion's claws in that .webm as a shield, holding back the tarantula as a defense, and the scorpion's tail as its spear, thrust into the tarantula as the scorpion's offense, then we can see in this .webm that the scorpion's tails and claws are used together in both offense and defense, its tail used to hold back the centipede from advancing and possibly getting a strike towards a weakness in the scorpion's armor and is more defensive, while the scorpion's claws are used in a more attack-based manner rather than defensively.
>>384523019
Nay, the Scorpion defeated the Tarantula.

>>384520728
>>384520146
it's to catch blood so it doesn't run down onto your hand and ruin your grip.

>>384523484
I was more referring to the soul manipulation thing. That's how Necromancy works in almost every setting.
Yes, there are of course exceptions to everything, but it still stands that generally Necromancy works by plucking souls from the afterlife to shove them back into a body.
Also about the negative energy thing, debates kinda stop once you look at the Negative Energy Plane. The "Manual of the Planes" literally describes it as:
"It is the blackest night.
It is the heart of darkness.
It is the hunger that devours souls"
Not much ambiguity about its alignment here.

>>384522841
Assuming this is a special snowflake setting where necromancy is literally just making a golem out of a corpse, it's still almost certainly going to be either hilariously gimped or evil. You've got a number of options:

1. Get your corpses by stealing them from local graveyards. Congratulations! You're a grave robber with absolutely no hints of subtlety and are happy to spite the corpse's loved ones even more.

2. Get your corpses from a post-life contract that ensures you get as many corpses as possible. You've managed to one-up even the worst feudal entrepeneurs, now that you've signed people into working themselves to death and then not even returning their corpses to their families!

3. Get your corpses from post-life contracts designed to be as ethical as humanly possible. Good job on being Lawful Good, but this means you're basically going to get as many bodies as America gets organ donors. I sure hope you weren't going adventuring any time soon. This also includes getting your corpses from societies that are A-OK with you taking people from graveyards.

4. Getting your corpses from slain bandits and enemy humanoids. You're like one of those Chaotic Good/Chaotic Neutral lads who believe the best way to deal with banditry is to impale offenders on spikes and let their anguished screams ward off potential criminals. Nobody's going to get mad at you for doing this, but you sure as hell aren't a paragon of goodliness or someone most people would want to be like.

>>384523749
Because swords are perfect sidearms, which kept them relevant through out history, even after invention of firearms.

>>384520659
The movements of the thingy disorient enemys while swinging and stabbing.

Whats the difference in vidya between a Paladin, Holy Knight, Crusader, Cleric, Templar and Valkyrie?

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>>384523912
>human corpses only
Or if you're a Necromancer and not an uncreative faggot, you'll use animal corpses and dinosaur bones

>>384524189
The flavor of their sweat and the scent of their musk.

>>384524189
What ever differences the dev puts into the game.

>>384514946
>not being an agile, leather-clad, dual-wielding holy warrior

>>384524189
>Valkyrie
They got tits and they judge the dead right there on the battlefield

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>>384524221
>he's too pussy to actually gather human corpses and sticks to casting spells over roadkill

>>384524221
Well, you (or maybe it was another guy) talked about using said corpses to rebuilt a tower.
Good luck rebuilding your tower using dinosaur and horse corpses.

>>384502587
agi is mobility

dex is finesse

>>384523912
1: If people ask me to not use their loved one's corpses, I'll be more than happy to give them back and rebury them

2: If it's a legal contract, then the people know what they're getting into. It's no different than donating your body to science after death, really

3: You say this as if I'm just gonna stockpile corpses or something. I have a limit to how much dead things my tower can hold, buddy, not to mention the actual effort of manipulating a large number of bodies, I would have no logical reason to have more than a few handfuls of bodies to use

4: They're shitty bandits and rapists. And no, it's not the same as impaling people, since these assholes come to MY tower and try to fuck with MY things. I don't ward off people with stupid things like hanging bodies. I'm not a savage. I just use warding spells to protect my land. It's only after they make it inside my tower that I unleash my undead on people.

>>384524221

Isn't the whole point of necromancy to study life and eventually achieve immortality? I thought that's the entire reason people became Lich's. You can't study human life without human corpses.

>>384523749
Swords are the absolute pinnacle of melee aesthetic. Even if they're meh in actual combat. And the idea of the sword being the dragonslayer's weapon probably comes more from beowulf than from st. george. Which, fun fact, did you know that St. George used his waifu's undergarments to bind the dragon and make it meek and docile?

>>384523912
>number 3
The solution can be easily done via being a Chrononecromancer, once the contract is signed, you summon his corpse from the future into the present to be used.

>>384500662
No need for DEX. Paladins are ridiculously OP faggots in literally every form of media in which they appear.

You waddle towards an enemy wearing enough armor to construct a fridge, losing about 1 micrometer of health to each attack, then just magic yourself healthy and oneshot said enemy with the Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch. THAT is how pally is played.

>>384524221
Yes, yes, using animals is all fine and good.
But, if you want undead to stand a chance, you need them to have hands and, more importantly, opposable thumbs, so they can wield tools and weaponry.

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>being a dexfag at any point unironically

pussy shit aint got nothing on the light

>>384521746
>there is a reason why the vast majority of soldiers were armed with spears,
It's mainly because it's literally a cheap weapon even a plebeian can use

> and even the people who could afford a sword preferred to use some other weapon and keep it as a sidearm instead.
Nobody uses swords in a mass fight. On the opposite, why do you think everyone who can swing a stick in latter centuries uses a sword for personal self defense?

>>384524657
>Swords are the absolute pinnacle of melee aesthetic
>not Scorpions

>>384524756
Animals don't need tools or weaponry, they just need to be immortal skeletons

Tool use is an equalizer to Nature but is rendered obsolete when only one side is beholden to the tyranny of Biology

>>384500662
smite archer is fucking nuts but /v/ doesn't play fucking tabletop games so they don't know shit

>>384510425
>>384511146

It's all Aphrodite's fault anyway. She wasn't his true love, she was just a gift because he said Aphrodite was the prettiest of the gods.

>>384525036
You kinda defeated your own argument. If the enemy has tools, and all you have is animals, the enemy could easily win. Sure, your animals aren't normal and can stand back up after an arrow hits their face, but if the enemy isn't retarded and goes for legs and joints like a good hunter does, then your undead animals are no more effective than any other animal. Meanwhile, your foe is continuing to advance on you, and your forces are all incapacitated.

>>384525404
Because I'm not retarded I've got all sorts of animals, all doing their own thing

Good luck "going for the joints, Boo" on my skeletal bear when my skeleton hawk is trying to peck your eyes out and my skelesnakes are biting you in the dick. It's like going on safari, except literally everything you see is trying to kill you at the same time.

>>384503760
it's a halberd, not a polearm

>>384525404
That applies to regular human skeletons too though.

>>384500662
Achillies is such a huge bitch it's fucking unreal

>be invincible Greek warrior
>literally the best guy in your army
>spend all day moping in your tent because war is haaaaard man
>your gay boy toy decides to get shit done and borrows your armor to inspire your allies
>literally doing your job for you
>dies for his efforts
>you get off your ass solely for revenge and lack of things willing to fuck you anymore
>go to 1v1 the best Trojan warrior Hector, a mere mortal
>have the gods repeatedly teleport your missed javelin throws back to you after you fuck up over and over
>have another god disguise themselves as Hector's brother and spear-holder and just warp away when he isn't looking, stranding him
>disrespect your opponent by dragging his corpse around the city walls in front of his wife, child, sister, and father
>take it with you so his king can't even give him a proper burial
>only give it back once he risks his life sneaking into your camp to plead for it back

If you've ever held Achilles in high regard I want you to know you're a huge fucking cunt.

>>384525836
Halberds are polearms, you're thinking of pikes.

>>384525343

Ultimately it's the fault of the goth bitch discordia or whatever her name is. Not invited to the party, she throws a golden apple to the fairest and it causes the basic bitches Hera, Athena and Aphrodite to be Thots.

>I thought this pic was worksafe but it had a nipple

Discordia you bitch you almost got me. Yeah there's no worksafe version of discordia orgia from Kuroinu Kedakaji brown elf rape hentai.

>>384526086
You're thinking of eris
>he doesn't drive-by shitpost the normie god party so had it split olympus and the mediterranean into two bitterly divided sides

>>384525950
You forgot that Achilles cried to his divine mother to ask Zeus to let the Trojans win until he returns to the fight.

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>>384518740
>I just want a game with an undead paladin who was brought back because the current chosen one either jobbed, or betrayed everyone.
So in other words, more or less this

>>384526450
Sure, did they make a game of it?

>>384526086
>>384526243

Her name in Greek mythology is Eris. Discordia is Latin.

In groups: Spears > Swords
In single combat: Swords > Spears
In ideal situation: You catch the enemy with their pants down and murder them with whatever you have on-hand before they have any idea what's going on

>>384504440
>buckler
Yeah just use the worst possible shield against a spear and look at how good the spear is. Use a real fuckin shield and rematch that.

>asks a question related to heavily armoured, righteous crusaders
>posts a webm of sand-swept gladiators
???

>>384527046
A few. A couple fighting games, a couple Legacy of Goku-esque games, and a strategy RPG. Unfortunately none of the games are particularly noteworthy.

An actually GOOD Yu Yu Hakusho game would be awesome

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>>384526306
>>384527223

Right my bad, had to delete the post lest a mod punish me for discordia orgia titties. Greek god tits are probably okay since I haven't been banned yet but big brown elf titties are not.

>>384525950

From a class I took on greco-roman warfare as an elective his sulking in the tend has to do with him and Agamemnon competing for who had the most timé (Value, worth, esteem) with Agamemnon deeming himself the best because he was lord of all the greeks and Achilles deeming himself the best because he was strongest of all the Greeks. The other point being how much the Greeks coveted https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arete_(moral_virtue) Areté both in the Iliad and in classical greece. Areté being the best at anything - at speaking, singing, running, fighting with spear, fighting with sword, fighting with bow. A bowfighter might have less areté than a spearfighter but if you're the best bowfighter then you have high areté.

Think of it like e-peening about having the best DPS, the highest health in an RPG, the most money, the best kill-streak, the fastest run through a dungeon.

>>384502281
Bruh
not using the Paladin helmet with ornsteins gear? I think his name was loyd or something in the catacombs? Shit looks cash

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>>384528108

And if you want a good read the professor's book Soldiers & Ghosts was really accessible for anyone interested in but not with a strong existing familiarity of Greco-Roman warfare. It's not too arcane or academic.

His book on the first arc of the Peloponnesian War, "Song of Wrath" is a bit more studious to read but it's still very good.

>>384504486
>Spears just have such a massive range advantage a swordsman cannot get close to someone using a spear.
>step forward
>swordsman is now closer to the spearman than the spearhead is
>swordsman wins
It's not complicated. A spears range is worthless once you get past their spearhead.
>heh I'll just pull it back
Backpedalling is way slower and more dangerous than charging forward.

>>384509029
>cast a nigger as the god of rape
lol

>>384503146

more like
>try to grab spear
>get stabbed in the throat

>>384523912
How did you manage to be that gay with just a single post?

>>384522283
fucking brutal
god I wouldn't miss one event of these

>>384523912
>implying 4 isn't the coolest dude
The only problem would be fags like you forming a mob and ruining his work.
Fighting bandits with dead bandits is a great strategy and a noble cause, sign me right the fuck up.

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Fools, instead of arguing which was the best weapon you could have combined them into THE ULTIMATE KILLING MACHINE

>>384533228
holy shit don't post that publicly, you could take down 20+ men with that alone

paladins are dex/ranged in tibia

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>>384500662
Doesn't League of Legends have a paladin who is also a trigger nigger?