What are the most hardcore, least casual games? Do non-casual

The first Wizardry games

>>384495259
Wargames probably

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>>384495259
>EU
You are little babby, watch this.
shame HOI4 is shit for casuals

http://www.matrixgames.com/
http://www.hpssims.com/

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>>384497256
>darkest hour
I thought I mastered the grand strategy genre until I played this game. Holy shit is it unforgiving. Unlike HOI 3 and 4 there is no ai commander to move your units, everything that happens is controlled by you.
I loved every second of it, one of the best strategy games I've played

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Wargames, which are priced and presented as big-box software rather than vidya.