Is this good dungeon design?

>>384332540
It's the only dungeon I got lost in in the whole series.

daily dose?

>>384332540
Looks like GBA/DS Harvest Moon, is that what it is?

What is that, Golden Sun?

>>384335534
Fuck I wish underage weren't allowed to post on here until they'd lurked for a whole.

>>384332540
Yes, Air's Rock is a great dungeon if you're not in a hurry
>>384335534
Golden Sun: The Lost Age

I've never finished a Golden Sun game.

When you get lost for a little while, and shut off the game for a couple of weeks, it's hard to come back to without just starting fresh.

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>>384332540
You rang?

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>>384335642
>that ran through the first game at least 4 times
>always get halfway through Lost Age and then get bored right when you recruit the party from the first game
>have yet to beat the game

>>384335883
That's most of the way through the game, there's only like two dungeons left if you don't count the optional dungeon from having all the djinn

>>384332540
delet this

Where is Golden Sun 4

>>384335823
That dungeon is what made me give up MOTHER the first time, and the second time I played, I started using a map.

Fun fact: Copy and paste that image into Paint

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>>384335823
Mother? More like Motherfucking bullshit

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>>384335823
>grey everywhere
>empty spaces everywhere
>meaningless long pathways

why is this allowed

what's the point of this map

>>384336475
>Copy and paste that image into Paint
Is something supposed to happen?

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>>384335883
Golden Sun has awful writing

>>384332540
>vegetation and sunlight, also, no roof
>dungeon

>>384337043
Oh right, I forgot
Use the fill tool with another color to fill in the gray

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Why don't games have challenging level design anymore?

>>384337254
It's all dithered grays dude.

aqua rock>gaia rock>air's rock>magma rock

>>384337051
I'll be honest, I picked this game up without playing the first and this is exactly the reason I dropped it. Didn't play more than twenty minutes and never looked back.

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>>384335883
>played Lost Age way back
>transferred password from first game
>get to event where you get gold boots
>lose interest and stop playing forever

>start up Lost Age again, new file
>beaten Golden Sun again so transfer password
>get up to even with gold boots
>they don't give me the gold boots, yet all the npc's leading me to believe I transferred the password correctly
>want to start over but not go through all that, especially Air's fucking Rock

wat do /v/, what fucking do

>>384337232
That's the outside ground floor of the dungeon. The whole thing takes about 4 pages of physical walkthrough to show the map.

>>384337438
Jesus christ, I would probably kill myself before the end of that thing

>>384338850
You have to have talked to the mayor in Vault after the thieves escaped in the original Golden Sun to get the boots in TLA. Most of the items have requirements like that beyond just straight transferring data.

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>>384338850
>wat do /v/, what fucking do
play a better game

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>>384332540
It's ok. Now THIS is actually kind of shit.

>>384339543
Since that is old phantasy star I guess that there will be random encounters all over the fucking place too, truly the stuff of nightmares.

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>>384339905
>Dragon quest in grate
Opinion discarded

>>384339905
>xeno "grate"
>Rance on the list at all
entry-level bait

>>384339905
They're all weebshit you pedo

>>384339915
Hmm. My spoiler tags did not work?

>>384335598
>lurked for a whole
a whole what, anon?

>>384340213
Ctrl-S newfag

>>384340059
Climatrol isn't that hard at all, I blundred my way through without a map pretty easily, it's the boss fight at the end that is tough as you have to do it with an incomplete party after one of your members leaves the party.

Ikuto, though >>384339915 that's a cunt, that's where even a nomaps fag like me just says 'fuck this shit' and looks it up online.

>>384340223
A whole lifetime that way they never post the dumbest shit

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>>384337232
Ok

Is this good dungeon design?

>>384340291
I did ctrl-S you double implier. Something about the post nullified the correctly and automatically inserted tags.

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>>384337438
>>384339915
Teleport/stairs gimmick dungeons should be banned form the face of the earth.

>>384340392
>>Climatrol isn't that hard at all, I blundred my way through without a map pretty easily, it's the boss fight at the end that is tough as you have to do it with an incomplete party after one of your members
it was the other way around for me, I was dependent on the map I made and still had a hard time finding my way, but I killed Neifirst with only the main character since I haven't recruited anyone else. It was just a matter of having an inventory full of trimates.

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>>384340973
>I killed Neifirst with only the main character since I haven't recruited anyone else
Holy crap, man. Playing the game like that must have been a serious chore, I dunno how you did it.

>>384332540
>>384340480
childhood nightmare.
still, looking at those pictures gives me an unexplainable urge to replay it right now, I love this game so much
fuck that password transfer though

@384339905
>DQ is grate, but FF is shit
>SMT is grate but chrono is shit
>golden sun, fire em
No, fuck this, literally that entire list is retarded bait. 1/10, no (You) for (You).

>>384341178
not bad at all, when you have only two members you don't divide the XP and I never struggled against any normal monsters. Though I ran into the blasters once.

>>384335823
>"what, belch's factory wasnt THAT hard"
>look closer
>it all comes back

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>>384339905
that entire list is wrong fucking hang yourself

>>384335823
That factory was hell. I must have taken every possible route available before making it to the end. So much time spent memorizing similar looking passages and backtracking to the closest town to heal. Even Mt. Itoi was less of a hassle.

>>384339905
this list is extremely nintendogaf

>>384332540
thanks doc

>all those little casual shits

>>384337438
>>384339915
Phantasy Star 2 has the worst dungeons I've ever seen.

>>384340817
teleporters, spinners and dark areas are just part of the genre
one way fake walls and non euclidean level geometry is another matter...

>>384332540
anyone that can read arab here? cause this shit looks like arab writtings in the thumbnail

>>384342004
>nintendo gaf
>literally the entire entry-level shit is Nintendo games, except maybe FF which still has 6 main games on Nintendo and a shitton of spinoffs

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>>384332540
this is

>>384344837
>non euclidean geometry

What game?

>>384339905
>DQ
>great

lol

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>>384332540
Is this good dungeon design?

>>384348839
It's pretty cool actually. I had to take out my pencil to draw a map to navigate, only to find out it's shaped like a skull.

>>384335823
Definitely the worst part of MOTHER.

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>>384348802
>DQ
>not great
you are this much of a homosexual.

>>384341315
I love BG2 but how is this good?

>>384348976
It's a pretty old trick, Zelda's been doing it since day one and I'm sure others have too.

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>Drawing the map as you go through the dungeon
>Teleport at some point
>Map begins to go through already drawn corridors
>All the while there are enemies that can permanently damage your stats or steal entire levels from you

>>384332540
As grueling as some of these become, fuck me if part of me doesn't love the autistic dungeons in TLA. They all went on for hours and would constantly throw new puzzles at you in between relentless random encounters. Finishing a dungeon truly felt like you had conquered it.

Holy shit, does TLA secretly have the best dungeons in vidya?

>>384335598

>golden sun
>niche title rivaling Terranigma in terms of lack of people knowing what it is
>what is this
>FUCK OFF UNDERAGE B&

I don't throw an autistic fit when people don't know what Seiken Densetsu 3 is.

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>>384349646

probably should though

>>384339905
>Chrono in entry level shit
>Mana in Grate despite the majority of the series being trash

what the hell is the metric for a good JRPG exactly

>>384349756

apparently we can just take your opinion and invert it

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>>384349646
>golden sun
>niche title

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>>384349646
>Seiken Densetsu 3
That game is so damn good. It's one of the few games I can play over and over again because of all the ways you can go trough it. I'd love it if it got an enhanced remake although I'm sure it would get fucked with somehow if that miracle actually did happen.

>>384349646
Golden Sun was one of the GBA's standout titles.

>>384339905
>pleb
>Lunar
>saga
>phantasy star

>"grate"
>xeno

>>384332540
The dungeons were great. I just had to use a guide to know where had to go to next. Eastern sea is confusing as fuck

>>384350142
there is not a single good SaGa game.

>>384339905
>front mission
I see that you are a man of taste as well

>>384339905
>xeno
hope is saga and not blade,the first one was ok but X is just garbage

>>384350698
Not that anon but I fucking love the eastern sea part and how open-ended it is.

Name a single problem with Dark dawn that it doesn't share with 1 and 2

>>384339905
shit list

>>384351025
It's basically the prologue of the game. I liked it, too, but the whole lemuria thing was pretty cryptic even though fitting for the place

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What if the entire game was a dungeon?

>>384332540
>>384340480
Air's rock is actually very linear It is impossible to get lost or miss stuff there unless you are a complete retard.

>>384332540
I enjoyed it until I got to the top I went "THERES MORE?" was too tired

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This is a turn based game with a ghost chasing you in real time.

>>384351094
Point/s of no return

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This game is a series of mazes

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>>384339905
Where does The Last Remnant fit into?

>>384335598
The second one was shit

>>384352645
Pleb cause it's a SaGa game

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The whole game is basically a one big, underground dungeon.

>>384352061
Is a point of no return really something that drags down the entire game though? I could see why it would piss someone off if they were shooting for 100% for their first run, but outside of that it I've yet to see why the points of no return negativly affects the game. Why are they bad?

The grave eclipse at least makes sense as point of no return since having so many towns killed off adds needed urgency to the plot.

So we're all in agreement that Golden Sun is Sakurabas best work, right?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CY6gMtriAPc

>>384349898
I like Golden Sun anon, but he's not wrong

>>384353224
I really disliked that this doesn't have a map
Feel free to call me a casual, but my place memory and sense of direction is absolutely terrible and that gets worse when I don't have a lot of time to play vidya so it might be several days since I last played it

>>384335823
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FoK-MgBCdBE

>>384356203
There's plenty of maps drawn by others or you could draw one yourself like in the old days.

>>384356651
Oh yeah I'm not saying it was impossible to find my way around, I just used looked at maps online when I forgot where something was
>or you could draw one yourself like in the old days
I don't understand why people adore this so much, it's just an unnecessary additional step to exploring

>>384356817
More immersion I suppose.

>>384356871
I can see the "it's like I'm really having an adventure and exploring!" having an appearl to some people, but putting down the game to draw a map is the actual opposite of immersion

>>384332540
It looks okay but some of these paths seem a bit redundant. Doing nothing more than making the map more made like without adding anything interesting.

>>384357040
it's a more legitimate way of beating a game than to look up stuff online, look at a map and make a beeline for the objectives. In the best case people doing that complain that the game is grindy.

>>384339905
>Dragon Quest
>Not weeb shit
Literally the same art style as DBZ. Might as well have it there with Naruto in weeb shit

>>384335598
>underage
>the game he thought it was is a whole ONE YEAR newer than the actual game it's from
get a grip gramps

>>384339905
Most of the entry-level stuff is great. Entry level doesn't mean bad but accessible.

>>384340087
>>384348802
Shit taste.

>>384357408
I don't know where you take these dichotomies from m8
All I want is for there to be an in-game map that shows you the zones you've already been to

>>384337438
Came here to post this.

Still prefer this 10x better than that pseudo 3d shit in PS1

>>384357649
That argument makes no sense
If a 15 year old says "looks like Super Mario Bros, is that what it is?" when shown a non-Mario NES game, how does that suddenly make him not underage just cause the game is old?

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>>384358007
>All I want is for there to be an in-game map that shows you the zones you've already been to
I bet you want a button that instantly ends every enemy encounter, too.

>>384340059
And you could only save in the cities unless you had the thief stealing the saveomaticphone but that would only happen after the fucking dams iirc.

The only relief really is that there were no boss battles (only 3 but the last 2 were in the end of the game), so if you did grindan past the enemies level you would one hit them all until you completed the area.

>>384358007
Would be nice if the upcoming expansion would bring a map, just plain automap that shows everything is pretty shit.
Maybe something that fills up when you explore enough, have it be tied to some GPS device that works underground somehow that you need to buy, or set of paper maps you could perhaps fill with asking/buying/forcing more info about the NPCs.

>>384349898
>it's not niche because I know about it!

don't let anime turn you stupid

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>>384358450
>just plain automap that shows everything is pretty shit.
Why? That's exactly what I wanted to know, what's bad about that kind of map? How is having to remember the path somewhere inherently better than simply having a map filling out with the places where you've already been?
You'd still have the exact same exploration aspect

>>384358386
what a retarded leap of logic this post is

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This thread is making me want to replay the relatively unknown exile/avernum trilogy.

>>384358536
see
>>384350125
it sold a ton, it's the best known GBA RPG other than Pokemon

>>384358386
Except a map that shows you where you've been already would be the equivalent to drawing your own map. Which saves you time and keeps you playing the game more. What the fuck is so wrong with that? How is that comparable in ANY WAY to "lol you just want to win instantly baka" you fucking idiot

>>384359302
There's so many fucking games and rereleases made by that guy that it's hard to pick a starting point, do I start with Avernum: Escape from the Pit?
Also, that map looks handdrawn but there's way too many details in it for that

>>384351239
Should I play the Famicon version or the Super Famicon remake?

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>>384339905
>Legend of Heroes on grate
>chrono and golden sun on entry-level
>Disgaea and .Hack on weeaboo shit when has Rance and Ys on Good
>Atelier on Pleb when sevearl of the titles are Great but others are shit
>Dark Cloud over Phantasy Star
>Final Fantasy and Fire Emblem on Entry-level
>Wild Arms on Weeaboo shit
>putting DQ over Etrian, V. Profile, Breath of Fire or Grandia
>putting DQ over SaGa, Phantasy Star or Valkyria Chronicles
This whole list is shit. The only good placement I found was the Tales of and Neptunia.

>>384359445
Go with release order. The old Exile games are on old-games.ru while the newer are on gog.com.

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>>384359445
Exile III: Ruined world is my favorite, though original avernum trilogy is prolly better. Never played the avernum remakes (remake of a remake, c'mon Jeff....), But I think they are on geneforge engine which I dislike.

>>384339905
>SaGa
>Pleb
I, ugh... what?

>>384335823
Thankfully, I played GBA version, which, as I heard, was easier even without the ring.

>>384360035

That is A LOT of shit. Just imagine waking up to that.

>>384360035
>>384360156


this girl killed herself after she was bullied for this picture

>>384358687
I meant map that shows everything from the moment you get it. Should've been more specific

>>384360352
Shit really shitted herself.

>>384360156
Did you know that females are able to hold 5 times the volume of shit men can?

>>384360356
Oh fuck yeah that's a stupid idea

>>384360451
They can once I've had a whack at 'em.

>>384360352
>making shit up

>>384360352
I'm wondering where her friends were to help her? Or were they the ones taking the photos? COuld really go either way compared to what I've witnessed. Degeneracy on all accounts.

>>384360810
It's a drunk college girl, they probably gangbanged her at a party and then left her there passed out

>>384360709
underrated pun

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>>384360918
Less dangerous than banging a still conscious drunk girl these days.

>>384359336
>it sold a ton, it's the best known GBA RPG

The GBA was released in 2001, 16 years ago
The DS replaced it in 2004, 13 years ago

It doesn't matter if it was well known at the time, it's a dead series that didn't have any popular sequels. There are people here now who grew up with a DS and never even touched a GBA before

>>384361157
Does this mean /vr/ won't neck themselves when someone posts GBA games on their bored now? Intentional.

I like GS, but I have to force myself through all this unnecessary dialogs.
I wish someone release a patch to trim dialogs to 1/3 of original.

>>384361157
It's still the best known GBA RPG
>As of June 30, 2010, the Game Boy Advance series has sold 81.51 million units worldwide
Age has nothing to do with niche status you fucking underageb&

>>384335598
>if he hasn't played Golden Sun he's underage
Also Golden Sun is a steaming pile of overrated mediocrity, deal with it.

>>384338264
You're not missing much. The first game is also filled with pointless filler dialogue, there's basically no story whatsoever and it ends practically telling you "play the sequel for the actual story" but then nothing really happens in that one either.

>>384361658
Yes it does. Things become more obscure over time.

>>384339905
Dragon Quest is literally the most entry-level JRPG you can get, you weeb

>phantasy star 2 posted
How did people not expect this after all the long dungeons in the first game?

I mean the last dungeon in 1 is like 25 floors if I recall, with tons of stairs up and down to memorise

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>tfw no sequel
>tfw Golden Sun is basically dead

>>384349646
how the fuck was golden sun a niche title?

>>384332540
I thought this was the desert escort misson in Superstar Saga

>>384365571
It's about 8 floors, you just go up and down between them a lot. Each map is quite small too. And the double final for real final dungeon after that is only one or two floors, as is the final not kidding this time really the last one! dungeon.

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>>384365571
>>384367394

>>384367394
I can't believe it's that few! But I believe you, I never actually looked at a fully mapped PS1 dungeon cause I just used to write the directions straight to the goal

>>384358245
If he knows what the game is, how does that make him not underage?

Is it so hard to believe that maybe anon just never played Golden Sun?

The claim that anon is underage because he doesn't recognize a random map is just fucking asinine.

>>384358245
It makes him stupid, not underage

>>384335598
>if you haven't played My Favorite Games you're underage

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>>384367607
Then here's the Air Castle, few more floors than I thought but look how simple it is after going through Baya Malay. For the unaware you do this dungeon directly after the previously posted much nastier one and fighting a boss. No breaks, no rest.

>>384332540
God, I miss being a kid and playing levels like this.

>>384335598
You're a faggot, and the rest of the website knows. Just shut the fuck up you motherfucking retard.

>>384368049
These dungeons are clearly designed to be confusing rather than complicated. It would look like you are just going round in circles

Remember you go around in the first person in this game, and with a really similar layout + stairs you could stumble around for a while

>>384351239
Play Grimrock.

>>384368381
Hmm, I think the Air Castle design is just giving your brain a break after the grueling previous dungeon which you haven't had a chance to rest from. What you said certainly applies to most dungeons from PS1 though, they're really not that complex, but you have to do them mapless and in the first person and that's what gets the noggin' joggin'. I really think they are the perfect size and complexity to tackle without making a map or using any outside help. The sweet spot between an easy straight run and hard enough to require maps. I mean in some games an automap is what makes them playable at all, but PS1 is better off without the feature.

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>>384335823
it's funny to me that you think that

>>384359445
Play Avernum 3. There isn't a remake of it yet, and it's the best one. Don't listen to the people telling you to play Exile, that's a meme, those games are completely unplayable on today's computers and you'll just waste a ton of time and never actually play a game.

>>384332540
Does that dungeon have any items in the dead ends or is it just empty? The thread seems to imply that this is from Golden Sun 2, I haven't played it but if there are random encounters that happen as you walk around the dungeon then unless there is some sort of reward for fully exploring the maze then it's pretty poor design.

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>>384344837
>one way fake walls

FUCK
THESE ARE THE WORST

>oh, here's the exit door
>but there's a path that i havent been down before, there might be a hidden item
>take 3 steps down the path
>end up near the beginning of the maze
>turn around
>theres a wall

>>384341315
Mein Neger!

So much side story in one dungeon. One of the best dungeons ever!

>>384369995
It's not just empty, I think many dead ends have at least a treasure chest or even a djinn but the spoils range from single herbs to nuts to pieces of equipment so you never know if it's worth going back.
Air's Rock is a test for the impatient, I remember as a kid going the same routes over and over again because I didn't pay attention to where I should have been heading.

>>384368173
I remeber getting angry boners over it.

>>384369995
Played through it a couple of days ago, every single dead end have chests in them. Some with pretty good rewards that make the sometime long detours very worth it (there's a dead end which you need to take a long detour to get to, but in return has the best early-game shield in it)

>>384352645
Hell