What did Dagoth Ur do wrong?

His only mistake was using Kagrenac's tools which made him go full retard afterwards.

He just needed better marketing.

>Redoran: Pious warriors who defend Dunmer Culture
>Hlaalu: Wealthy Merchants who deal in most of the commerce on Vvardenfell
>Telvanni: Aristocratic Mage Lords who live in giant twisting mushroom towers
>Dagoth: Naked men with giant hammers sitting in a dark cave

He should have just hired a marketing team to overhaul the houses image. If Red Mountain had been a big fancy castle with a bunch of devout well equipped warriors as servants instead of crazy ash monsters, he would have gotten much farther as his motives are arguably hard to find fault in.

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The chairs. The tables. All confused. We hear the words, and must speak them. We take them, and arrange them, but still, they will not be quiet.

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>>384318456
I wonder what they were hearing, maybe Ur's thoughts?

S'wit

>>384318754
That was my first thought too, but that seems unlikely given the dialogue from Ash Zombies.

>WHERE ARE YOU, LORD? We cannot hear you.... SPEAK to us! PLEASE!

Friend or traitor come

He didn't kill the only person that was researching a cure for Corpus.

What an idiot.

>>384321553
>implying he could kill Divayth Fyr

>>384320781
I feel like that dialogue was only supposed to appear after you killed him.
>>384321590
He probably could, but didn't want to. Because Fyr is too cool to kill.

>>384317185
He died and achieved the inverse of enlightenment.

>>384321660
>probably could
Ur is level 35, Fyr is 65.
Also how? Dagoth can't really leave his cave at the moment, and Fyr would make short work of any assassin.

>>384322521
Akulakhan.
He would have ruled the world if it weren't for that meddling Nerevarine.

>>384321671
He didn't zero sum, what I'd miss? He wanted to destroy the tools but was thwarted by thrice cucked.

>>384322898
He went the anti-CHIM route and basically tried to become the Godhead by having everyone and everything absorbed into him

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>>384322521
>Fyr would make short work of any assassin

I made short work of Fyr when I hit him in the face with my Daedric Warhammer while drunk on a Fortify Strength 150,000 potion

lotta good all that flying around in Daedric realms with your fat friend did when I can just abuse chemicals instead

>>384323337
Yeah cause the player is really comparable to an assasssin.

>>384322898
Inverse as in he arrived at the wrong conclusion. Rather than seeing the tower, he saw aetherius, (the wheel) the earthbones, (the spokes) and mundus( the hub) all around him, and considered it to be a sign that its centered around him. He drew the conclusion that the reality is part of him, rather than him being a part of it.

>>384323831
...I only see the wheel, spokes and hub. The tower huh?

>>384324086
Take your head out of the wheel and look at it from the side.

>>384324140
I

So did the other et'Ada ever know about CHIM and the Psijic Endeavor or was it really only Lorkhan?

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>>384318310
>his motives are arguably hard to find fault in
>wanting to turn all reality into his own solipsistic manifestation
>hard to find fault in

>>384323337
Something about this post gave me the giggles

>>384324694
The one who became Boethiah might have know afterwards, same as Hermaeus Mora, possibly even Trinimac after becoming Malacath, but it seems they were all pretty clueless at the time because of their station and status, solving that problem was the entire point of creation.

>>384324918
Anything to escape this shitty Dream

>>384324918
>become part of Dagoth-Ur land
>gameplay, grafix, and dialogue system suddenly improves

>>384317185
His mistake was not approaching the Nerevarine and telling him his side of the story earlier and offering him the chance to join his side.

If you went to sleep and had a vision of Nerevar's death at the hands of the Tribunal after completing vivec's 36 lessons, and could then confront them about it and side with Ur in a "bad" ending, Morrowind would've been perfect.

Vivec, Sotha Sil and Almalexia are scum, slaughtering them all and siding with your homeboy Dagoth and conquering the world with Akulakhan should absolutely have been an option.

>>384326592
The tribunal are not scum and are not wrong, they repented for their sin so hard they literally changed history so that it never happened.

>>384323431
That sounds like an assassination to me. Doesn't matter how, just get the job done.

He got punked by some spastic outlander with a hoarding issue

>>384326814
yet nerevar is still dead by their hands.

>>384317185
>Wanted to turn the entire population of the world into rotting flesh monsters or ash vampires
>Not bad

Try living somewhere with frequent sandstorms as well. I can only imagine how shitty the blight storms were. He had to be destroyed for the good of the province. The Nerevarine could still kick out the mongrel dogs of the Empire on his own without making everyone an undead monster.

>>384326814
That's complete bullshit, they didn't unmake Nerevar's death, their betrayal of Azura and her curse of the Chimer into Dunmer, or repent in any fashion. Almalexia becomes even more of a crazy murderbitch that she tries to kill her former husband a second time in Tribunal.

>>"None may stand in my way. Not you, and certainly not Vivec. He is a poet, a fool. I will deal with him when I have finished with you. And Sotha Sil...he always thought himself our better, shunning us, locking himself in this hole. He spoke not a word as he died. Not a whisper. Even in death, he mocked me with his silence! But I think you will scream, mortal. For now, you face the one true god."

Tribunal apologists are the worst. Vivec is a loony who fucked Molag Bal, Sotha Sil is autistic, and Almalexia is certifiably insane.

>>384327671
Sotha Sil and Vivec were cool

>>384327750
Poisoned robes and poisoned invocations aren't cool.

>>384327845
Nerevar should've rolled argonian.

>>384327671
Vivec is an arm chair philosopher but is otherwise a cool guy who didn't really do anything wrong. With the amount of power at his disposal he's remarkably restrained and doesn't abuse the people of Morrowind with it even though he could do so easily.

Sotha Sil should have just been left to his own devices, he didn't seem to give a shit about anyone but the Dwemer.

But Amalexia should have been murdered ten times over.

>>384327671
People say not to stick your dick in crazy, but this is what happens when you don't dick the crazy into submission.

>>384327997
>doesn't abuse the people of Morrowind with it even though he could do so easily.
>holding his own people hostage with a meteor hanging just overhead
>not abuse

>>384328153
If it crashed tomorrow it'd only destroy Vivec's own palace. That moon is tiny as shit. Unless he hurled it with full force from orbit or something.

>>384327997
He's an armchair philospher that MURDERED YOU. Sotha Silver just wants to be left alone because he feels GUILTY. The Tribunal pulled a Judas hat trick and didn't even get their payoff.

Dagoth Ur beat them to the punch, because while they were busy betraying Nerevar and Azura he was fucking around with the Heart. They only feel bad because things didn't turn out their way, not for committing regicide/killing her own fucking husband

>>384327997
almalexia has a cute butt

>>384317185
He became enemies with the Neravarine and didn't even give him an actual choice to join him.

>>384328382
Exactly what happened. Vivec didn't stop it's momentum. He paused it. As soon as the magic wears off it hurdled into the ground at the same force it was going when Vivec stopped it.

>>384328401
Honestly the tribunal did right.
Not only is sotha sil basicaly single handedly responsible for daedra not totaly obliterating nirn, the tribunal as a whole embody the chimer ideal of stoicism and pragmatism.

They basically murdered their best friend in order to become examples for the chimer people on how to reach godhood. How much they must have suffered, the sacrifice was not nerevar, it was their own morality.

It serves as an example of what it takes to become a god. You dont become a god with out violence, all the ways to obtain godhood require some form of violence.

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>>384328401
Is it even confirmed that they killed Nerevar though?

>>384328539
I had no idea about that, but I figured blowing the moon up would cause more damage unless Vivec could make sure there was no debris as well.

>>384328412
Definitely true

>>384328705
I mean, Dagoth Ur became a god who was strong enough to 1v3 the entire Tribunal without needing to do any murdering. You can wax philosophical all you want but access to the Heart is what actually matters.

There's no telling how events would have played out had Nerevar survived and Azure hadn't abandoned the Chimer people. I doubt a united Morrowind under Nerevar's leadership and the personal backing of a daedric prince would've fallen to Mehrunes, who is the biggest jobber in the entire godhead.

>>384317185
No one cared who he was until he put on the mask

what was Nerevar actually like as a person?

>>384329248
If his plan had worked, would Nerevar have died?

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>>384329003
>>"But the Tribunal had become as greedy as Kagrenac upon hearing of the power of the Heart and they coveted it. They made ritual as if to summon Azura as Nerevar wanted but Almalexia used poisoned candles and Sotha Sil used poisoned robes and Vivec used poisoned invocations. Nerevar was murdered."

Straight from the horse's mouth. The picture and quote are from Kirkbride on Morrowind's tenth anniversary, the drawing's title is "Foul Murder" which is also what the first letter of each line in Vivec's 36th lesson spells out.

The Ashlander's were right which is why the tribunal tries so hard to have them silenced

>>384329285
Extremely pious and very honorable. Too pious that he felt betrayed by the Dwemer for Kagranac trying to make a new god. If he hadn't died/been killed he would have likely tried to destroy the Tribunal for defying Azura.

Other than that he must have had a huge dick to get Almalexia going.

>>384327845
Fuck you theyre not

>>384329463
Did Almalexia cuck Nerevar with Vivec or Sotha Sil?

>>384326814
Vehk altered the timeline so that Vivec didn't kill Nerevar and that was it

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>>384317185
Everything

>>384329003
>Is it even confirmed that they killed Nerevar though?
the hidden message in vivecs sermons certainly points to it.

>>384329154
The hearts not what made any of them gods. Its what gave them divine powers, yes, but they became gods through other methods. The tribunal pontix towered themselves into godhood, and vivec also chimed himself. dagoth ur used amaranth.

Divine power is one thing but what makes a god a god is more than just power.

Also, if vivec is to be believed almalexia and sotha sil are not necessarily permanently dead, they can come back. Being a god is basically maintaining yourself when you enter back into the dreamsleeve.

Its not right to say dagoth Ur 1v3d the tribunal, they killed him on multiple occasions but as he is a god he just kept coming back. The tribunals downfall was losing the tools, plain and simple, and while this lessens their power immensely i think once a god is a god their will remains intact, you cant strip them of the god quality.

So we might see more of the tribunal in the future.

>>384325751
They just have the read the Elder Scroll of CHIM

>>384329003
>Is it even confirmed that they killed Nerevar though?
There is tons of evidence towards it. And, you know, never believe the official story.

>>384329285
He valued peace and diplomacy over war with the Dwemer even though he had the opportunity to wipe them out, he tried multiple times to avoid conflict but Kagrenac forced his hand. He valued Azura's opinion and was her favored champion, and was married to Almalexia. He sought the council of his advisors and Azura first before making his decision regarding the Heart and was wholly unprepared for their betrayal. He's basically Chimer Jesus/Mohammed; a strong, kind, and successful warrior king who proved too trusting for his own good that ended in tragedy

>>384329737
This is why I think they didn't even become gods in the first place (except Vivec, maybe), basically "fake gods". Sure they got some power from the Heart but that was it, once they lost the Tools and a connection to it the Nerevarine quickly BTFO them. I think even the entire ALMSIVI oversoul was "dead" afterwards.

>>384330089
Is there a reason Almalexia gets 3 letters in ALMSIVI while sotha sil and vivec only get 2? Or is it just "ALSIVI" doesn't sound as cool and doesn't contain "Alms" which is an actual word with religious connotations

the tribunal was not in the wrong

azura is the problem

>>384329003
>Is it even confirmed that they killed Nerevar though?

This:
>>384329463
>>384329737


Vivec makes some bullshit copout where he says that when he received his godhead he became an entirely different entity from the one that killed Nerevar and so is guiltless.

But judging by the secret message in his sermons even he doesn't buy his own bullshit. Top that off when he was actually put on trial in a short story, and instead of professing his innocence until the very end uses it as a means to (kind of literally) fuck Azura before flying off to some outer reach of Mundus.

The guy was a cunt, best thing you could do is kill every living member of the tribunal. They all deserved to die.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gbENEYUGhLU

>>384329737
>Its not right to say dagoth Ur 1v3d the tribunal, they killed him on multiple occasions but as he is a god he just kept coming back.
I thought the problem was that he was already dead. Just like if you kill a "kill" a summoned creature, they just return to oblivion, whenever they tried to kill Dagoth Ur, he just returned to the dreamsleeve. Normally that would be enough, but he awoke in the dreamsleeve when they first slayed him at Red Mountain. From that point on, he was projecting himself into Mundus whenever he slept. Whenever they tried to kill him again, his soul just went back to his waking body until he started to dream again. The entire point of "destroying" the heart was to sever the connection he made to it by randomly wailing on it with Kagrenac's Tools and therefore eliminate the cause of him literally being too stupid to even die right.

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>>384330882

>>384331064
>Normally that would be enough, but he awoke in the dreamsleeve when they first slayed him at Red Mountain.

Thats what it is to be a god. Vivec tells you as much in some of his dialogue. Any god can choose to just wake back up once killed and exist again.

This is why i see a disconect between the heart and its power and the 'godhood' of the tribunal/ur. I think they are gods now, permanently, regardless of what power they might have access too. I think they can return any time they want. No god has been 'killed', the ones that do make semingly permanent absences are because they have been transformed into something else and currently exist within those forms.

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>>384329248

>>384317185

the X did nothing wrong joke is stale as fuck. he did plenty of shit wrong that's readily apparent to anyone that's beaten the game. he's interesting because he's a complex character in a complex world, but you're retarded if you think his methods were in any way justified.

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>>384330609
Thanks my man

>>384330271
ALM is actually a letter
It's like asking why the letter W has more syllables in its pronunciation

>>384330539
Don't you talk shit about my Lady

All gods and daedra suck, the world is better with just mortals only except the elven scum.

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>>384327671
Filename

>>384333371
now there's an image I can steal

>>384329715
the country would be wonderful with the ghostfence

i hope you didn't vote

>>384331603
A god in the aedric sense would imply imparting part of themselves onto Mundus and becoming an Earthbone. A god in the daedric sense would imply possessing a realm of oblivion as both your domain and yourself. Ur did neither, he saw Mundus as his his domain, yet had no stake in it like the Aedra and was able to walk on Mundus without needing to be summoned like a daedra. Rather, he stole a slimmer of Lorkhan's heart, which allowed him to proclaim divinity. All of his powers originate from the heart, he needed the tools to enact his will upon creation, because he was powerless without them. Its possible the Tribunal mantled the Anticipations in a way, but seeing as how they're still around and kicking I'm uncertain about that. Beyond that, two parts of the tribunal's divinty are easy to explain, Vivec became Narcissist Buddha and Sotha Sil took the world's machinery apart and put it back together with himself as a necessary part of it. Almalexia though, I don't know what the fuck was up with her.

>>384327671
>Even in death, he mocked me with his silence!
Based Sotha BTFOing bitches in his deathbed.

>>384335624
He had already outgrown his body by that point. Almalexia just went down there and wailed on a corpse as Cyber Sil was busy calculating pi in the Nirnframe. Probably didn't even notice.

>>384330609
Vivec didn't make a copout, he's right, upon attaining the power of the heart and learning the nature of the wheel he could in fact change history, any CHIM or powerful being could. Thusly he did, he didn't feel good about killing his best friend and unrequited love, nobody would, he didn't really need that quilt either so he got rid of his reason for feeling it. Not everybody was happy with this though, especially another godlike being who could theoretically fuck with history who wanted people to know who was responsible for her champions murder. However since Vivec's power drew from the font that powered all of mundus he won the wrestling match over the timeline and mostly became correct, with only a few instances of Azura's recollection remaining.

>>384334543
Its the difference between mantling and prolix towering. Mantling has you essentially become a replacement. Prolix towering has you share association with and become similar to by piggybacking on another god... sort of a reverse fragmentation, where ever one is, the other is also, to the point that they become the same entity.

The simple act of the tribunal temple having the dunmer associate the tribunal with the anticipations strongly and ferverently over time caused the ascenscion of the tribunal. They needed the hearts power to play the role at first because they had to trick people into thinking they were gods. They were 'false gods' at that point. But eventually they became real gods because people thought of them as gods enough.

As i said before this was only one thing they did. In the sermons its quite clear that each of them had obtained godhood through multiple different ways. At least according to the sermons which admitably cant be taken as truth, but that it was mentioned that one person can 'complete' multiple walking ways surely means that it is possible to do so, i dont think vivec would lie about metaphysical mechanics, just mislead about what actually happened.

>>384335952
Is there a cyberpunk Morrowind mod?

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>>384335952
[silposting loudly]

>>384317185
He lost

>>384318310
(((Hlaalu))) are destroying Vvardenfell with their nepotism and cultural Marxism. Ship them off to Solstheim.

>>384336531
I like to think of Sil as the kinda guy who sends out "Re: CHIM " Dreamsleeve messages to the Psijics where the content is just pages of Lenny faces, maintains a running list of blind Ancestor Monks on his "Secrets of the World Made Clear" mailing list, and falseflags as a Pro-Ulfric, Talos-worshiping Altmer.

where the fuck is my redoran katana mod

>>384336330
>prolix towering
That's the term I couldn't remember, thank you. I only dispute whether they reached genuine godhood due to their power waxing and waning with the heart of Lorkhan. Which could be an element of their nature of the divinity they sold to themselves, but I'm doubtful because "murdering our Lord Nerevar so we could steal the divinity of another god" was a part of their myth they conveniently left out in the story they told their followers.

>>384337587
Katanas are more of an Akaviri thing, and the Nibenese weaboos who wish they were Akaviri.

>>384338539
but the orcs was samurai n shit in morrowind, and the high elves was samurai n shit before then

>>384332708
>The things he did are so obviously wrong that I conveniently don't have to provide any examples because you should already know.

>>384338890
>becoming consumed by the Heart was the right thing to do
he wasn't even self possessed at the end, it's like getting addicted to magic meth but you can't even die when you overdose

Why have you come unprepared?