Redpill me on this game /v/ I recently fell for the CRPG meme-

Nigga go play the original Planescape Torment, don't waste your time with this filth

>>384243408
How about the original? Planescape torment? It's infinitely superior. They even have an enhanced edition out, but I'm not sure if it's worth it.

>>384243574
Is it really that good? I heard it's an adventure game that just looks like a CRPG because of the engine.

>>384243574
>>384243581

So this game ended up being shit too?
Did all the kickstarter RPG revives fall short?

>>384243646
POE was pretty good, in my opinion at least

>>384243646
Not all of them, but this one in particular ran into the problem of inexile moving a lot of their staff to work on the directors cut of Wasteland 2 and the new bards tale, so a fair amount of the stretch goals got dropped as did some localizations.

>>384243646
Well I liked Divinity OS and PoE was meh if not good

>>384243646
Yeah, they kinda did.
Obsidian was abandoned by a bunch of good writers and most KS RPG creators fell into the "we need a fuckton of padded content" meme. Most of the game is just uninspired, cheap writing and the encounter design is pretty shit.

If you want something crunchy that was recently KS-released, try Underrail.

>>384243646
Arguably PoE and Divinity original sin turned out to be decent at the very least.

>>384243408
>NU MEN ERA
>literally about male pregnancy
Wow great game

Can anyone tell me why it's so bad at least?

The game has awesome writing but the combat is even worse than Planescape

>>384244636
>game is written by a literal penis cannibal who inserted a ton of fucking disgusting fetish shit into it
>literally named NUMALE ERA
What the fuck more do you want? It's a terrible game with horrible writing and there isn't anything in it but the writing so all you do is walk from room to room and read this tumblr blog full of sick shit.

>>384243408
It's 90% dialogue. You should probably read a book instead.

>>384243837
>Underrail
>KS-released

Underrail is one of the few recent games that was not made with crowdfunding.

>>384243639
It's largely considered one of the best RPG ever made, if not the best, but it's mainly because of the writing/characters/setting, when you are not walking to one place to another you'll spend 90% of the time reading and 10% fighting and the gameplay is quite bad.
If you're ok with that and you enjoy reading and choosing dialogue options it should be one of the best experience you'll ever have in a video game.

Numenera tried to use the "Torment" formula in another setting and failed to do something interesting and they also kept the bad gameplay.

>>384243639
>adventure game
No. It's a choose-your-own-adventure which looks like a CRPG. It does also have legit CRPG mechanics, it's just that it blows everything else out the water with the "story".
>>384243581
Enhanced Edition's the only version you can buy right now, AFAIK.

>>384244761
Basically this.
Game is all about dialogues and they are tumblr tier.

>>384245004
>and they are tumblr tier.
Oh shit the game disagrees with me

No you faggot the game is bad because the writing is bad, not because it's Tumblr.

>>384243408
Play original Fallout games, Icewind Dale games and Planescape Torment.

>>384245029
Why not both?

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>>384245029
Tumblr = bad

>>384245106
Because disagreeable ideology doesn't preclude GOAT writing. I'm not a Bronze-age dusty-dicked Jew but I still love the Bible.

Numenera is not bad. Most of people are salty about cut content, but someone who didn't fell for Kickstarter - I'd say it is okay. 7/10 game, just buy it on sale or pirate it.

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>>384245185
>mormon shitter

>>384245240
7/10s aren't worth playing.
>>384245251
I have absolutely zero idea how you reached that conclusion.

>>384244935
>choose-your-own-adventure
That's a funny thing to call the only DnD game where you don't even have to pick a fucking class for yourself. Calling it an adventure game is accurate. Calling it a cyoa is less accurate than calling it a dungeon crawler.

>>384245276
>That's a funny thing to call the only DnD game where you don't even have to pick a fucking class for yourself
Most CYOAs don't let you do that. Only one I can think of is Zagor.
>Calling it an adventure game is accurate
No it isn't you tremendous dong.

>>384245240
7/10 references per minute to an old man getting impregnated because the fucking piece of shit who wrote it is a disgusting deviant

It's basically a VN.

>>384243581
It's not worth the 20 bucks they ask but they didn't make the game worse, it's the same thing without the need to use mods and with slight adjustments to the hud, more options in the graphics and gameplay settings and things like that. It's a good version but I'd wait for it to be at -50% at least.

>>384245240
Yet it's infinitely inferior to any of the recent and older cRPGs OP hasn't played - so why even give this mediocre POS the time of day?

He could try, more recently, AoD, Underrail, D:OS(2)
And he hasn't even played classic cRPGs like PS:T, Arcanum, IWD and NWN.

I also think a 7 is being generous. It's basically a game that is all about writing but fails to be interesting in that very category, instead opting to hide text dump after text dump behind every single character in an attempt to make them seem unique.

They made the same mistake as Planescape and added combat and gameplay to the reading so they basically ruined it.

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>>384245350
That was a joke about linearity. Because Torment is linear. Very fucking linear. So linear that it doesn't even give you the usual choice of character building. The entire game is about solving a linear series of shitty puzzles and killing/running past shit on the way. A cyoa would have branching, Torment has none until you pick your ending.

>>384245735
There's many different side-branches which all end up in different ways, even if the main plot is relatively linear.
>So linear that it doesn't even give you the usual choice of character building
Not a concern for stories. Stats DO play a role in the story, by the way, but actual min-maxing thankfully is unimportant. And I dunno why you object so hard to being given a class at the beginning which you can then change really early on.
>A cyoa would have branching
Not at all, they're similarly linear (for the same reason).

fuck rpg codex, no, i can do better than that
RAAAA FUCK RPG CODEX!!!!!!
as for the new torment, it's bad, sadly
play Pillars of Eternity if you want some real 9/10 crpg
or even wasteland 2, even this shit is better than torment
rpd codex will pay

>>384246161
>if nobody likes my disgusting fetish shit """"""""""""game""""""""""" it's some specific community that hates me and that's why they don't like it! It can't possibly be that nobody wants to read 5 hours of male impregnation fanfic!!!!!

Fucking kill yourself

>>384246312
>as for the new torment, it's bad, sadly
reading comprehension

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>>384245923
It has no more side-branches than any other rpg out there. If that's enough for you to make Torment a cyoa, then you might as well start calling everything else one.

>which you can then change really early on
And continue changing any time, anywhere on the fly. That's not really picking a class, that's rotating between three depending on what suits your needs the most.

>they're similarly linear
A cyoa is defined by its branching alone.

>>384246347
>it's just a bad game no need to spend any time examining why also an equally bad game filled with slightly different equally repulsive fetish shit is 9/10

>>384246465
what's the PoE fetish that got you all mad?

>>384246492
Fuck off back to deviantart

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>>384246572
it was just an innocent question, anon

>>384246432
>It has no more side-branches than any other rpg out there
It has a hell of a lot more, given every single side-quest has genuine moral stakes.
And, yeah. CYOA wasn't meant to be a compliment.
>And continue changing any time, anywhere on the fly. That's not really picking a class, that's rotating between three depending on what suits your needs the most.
So you get to choose...?
>A cyoa is defined by its branching alone.
I guess the entirety of Fighting Fantasy aren't CYOAs.

>>384246646
>I guess the entirety of Fighting Fantasy aren't CYOAs.

They aren't, Fighting Fantasy are gamebooks, also called single player role-playing adventures by DnD, if I remember correctly. Different genre.

Seriously, it's not a classic, by far, but if you love the genre and crave something new, you can do worse than playing Numenera. The game has its moments.

I'd personally would advise other games in the recent slew of new ones first if you haven't played them - if only Age of Decadence if your into the narrative interactions and Divinity Original Sin if you're into systemic gameplay - but it's not as if those games didn't have some huge flaws either.

>>384246432
What is that image?

>>384246757
The term CYOA has come to refer to gamebooks as a whole, like Jello or Band-aids in America. The CYOA series is just that -- a series, firmly within the gamebook genre.

>>384246796
But why reward bad work? Why not support the AoD dev, he needs the money because he's actually developing another game. And Larian Studios could always use further bankrolling for further development on D:OS2.

If you're pirating Numenera, fine, mite as well give it a shot so you can experience the aggressive mediocrity for yourself.

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>>384246796
>>384246967
>Check out AoD
>81% positive on Steam
This better be one of those "plebs on Steam cannot into good vidya" things...

>>384246859
But if you use the term so broadly then you are not saying much. Many of the Fighting Fantasy books are 100% pure dunegon crawlers, it sure as fuck doesn't describe Torment better than adventure game (game focused on simple puzzle solving) or just simply, you know, rpg.

>>384246796
>desperate damage control

>>384243408
Play Torment: tides of numenera first.

It's a fun enjoyable game but it pales in comparison to Planescape torment. So if you play planescape first you will not enjoy numenera anymore. So make sure you play numenera first.

>>384247181
>You should play muh male pregnancy fetish game so you can really really enjoy it
Get the fuck out

>>384246826
Decision tree diagram of The Antimatter Formula, a CYOA book.

>>384243408
Just like everything that the hack Avellone touches, it is shit.

>>384247236
>He doesn't think male pregnancy will happen when technology will allow it one day

You don't have to agree with it but it seems realistic in the setting of a civilization 1 billion years in the future.

>>384246796
What about poe you jaded degenerate

>>384246967
>But why reward bad work?

I don't think it's bad, I did mention I think AoD is more deserving, and I personally think should have precedence, but the existence of more deserving works doesn't suppress all value from those that are inferior.

Numenera is *overall* a disappointment, but the game definitely has its moments. For a fan of the genre there are things that will definitely disappoint (if only the poorly thought out, broken systems), but I think there also are things that are worth experiencing.
It's not a *bad* game. If anything in so many ways, its worse, because it has enough good in it that you can see how it could have lived up to its premise.

I mean, I thoroughly enjoyed Serpent in the Stagland, but it's a game I would have a harder time recommending given how willfully narrow it is in design. Numenera can be enjoyed a lot easier.

>>384247089
It's unforgiving and slow, also requires reading and isn't well known like PS:T so it has no sizeable defense force.

That being said, why even bother reading steam reviews?

>>384247353
>My fetish is really really realistic and should be shoved down every single person's throat! PLAY MY FETISH GAME!!!

No fuck off forever

>>384247490
I mean, look at one of the most recent negative reviews

>You are an average Joe trying to survive in a dying world full of backstabing, scheming s. That would be fun and awesome, but because you are a nobody with no talent, your choices are limited to your few skills you increase. That sounds not a big deal in theory, but in practice that means you have to skip parts of the story because you can't handle them, your few skills predeterminate your choices.

Christ, you can't do everything in a single playthrough and if you pick skills that aren't in line with your character you get punished. Must be a bad game.

>>384247518
Are you the same guy that got triggered by the NTR rape section in underrail?

It's not about the content it's about how realistic that content is in the setting and world of the RPG.

In a post apocalypse world with limited amount of women NTR/cuckold rape seems pretty common and realistic.

In a world of god like technology someone using that technology to get himself pregnant doesn't really seem out of place.

You should only hate these things if they are obviously put into the game to push SJW issues. But in these cases they weren't. They were just a demonstration of the state of the world you roleplay in.

>>384247717
>reddit spacing
go back to where you belong numale trash

>>384247774
why are you so angry

>>384247156
Adventure games are shit like Monkey Island and Zork. PS:T's literally nothing like those games.

In PS:T the real gameplay comes from reading, weighing decisions, and making them. The focus is heavily on morality beyond all else, specifically on what makes your character your character (in the D&D alignment sense) -- therefore doing a good thing or a bad thing IS the nonlinearity. Take one of the quests at the very beginning of the game: a dude is grieving a city. You can tell him to stop being a silly fuck, or you can go and carve the city's name on a monument. And, in that second option, you can do it for free, or demand money. In THAT second option you can then laugh at him when he pays. Or you could just have done none of this at all -- your only option, if you lack the stats.

And some of those things sound kinda naff written just like that ("woah I can ask for money???") but the way PS:T's written means that this legitimately is a genuine concern for you. Asking for money is an evil act, as opposed to TW3 which just makes you feel a bit of a dickhead.

So, given that THIS is the gameplay and not the shitty combat and mediocre puzzles, I would describe it as a dressed-up CYOA.
>>384247175
He's recommending other games instead. Not great damage control desu.
>>384247353
Good writers aren't constrained by realism ;)

>>384247365

I'm really conflicted on PoE.
Not a bad game, worth playing, some very interesting moments. At the same time, I think it sometimes spread itself too thin. And more importantly I think it knows what it is way too much. It feels too designed, too clean for my taste. In some ways I would agree it's the best of the RPG revival, but it's also one of the less enjoyable ones for me.

Definitely worth a play though.

>>384247630
There is difference between not being able to solve all the shit, and being hardlocked into a single plot branch because of your class choice. AoD comes closest to the actual CYOA out of all rpgs released recently, i can easily see how some people wouldn't like that kind of deal when they were expecting Fallout: Romans Edition

>>384247774
Ok you are confirmed for a newfag that came here the presidential election since the "reddit spacing" was actually used on 4chan WAY before reddit-hating became a thing on 4chan. It's actually 4chan posters that brought it to reddit not the other way around.

anons realized the spacing meant the posts were easier to read and therefor get more (You)s which is the only thing that matters on this board as you clearly already know.

>>384247490
Cool, I get it. I'll check it out then.
>That being said, why even bother reading steam reviews?
They're usually representative, whether good or negative. Like, you can read the negative reviews and see that the guy's a salty casual and the game actually sounds really fun despite his butthurt.

>>384247912
i cant tell if this post is bait or not

>>384247809
Get the fuck out

>>384247878
>It feels too designed, too clean
what in the seven fucks did he mean by this

>>384247905
Sure, it is really restrictive in that regard. You'll miss so much in a single playthrough that even when replaying the same class the experience can end up being completely different because you picked different skills.

I agree with you totally, actually. But that's why I personally like it so much.

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>>384243408
The game didn't get enough money, so they had to cut features.
Its still an old school RPG, which everyone supposedly wanted. Supposedly.
In reality, people just wanted to "virtue signal" that they totally love old RPGs guys, I miss them so much, new games aren't anywhere nears as good, etc. But then when they get an old school RPG, they dislike it and complain.

tl;dr the redpill is that nobody wants a fucking Baldur's Gate 2017 or Planescape Torment: The Same Game, But On Steam, people just say they do to seem hard and l33t

>>384247815
>So, given that THIS is the gameplay and not the shitty combat and mediocre puzzles, I would describe it as a dressed-up CYOA.

I really don't see why people take "CYOA" as some form of sneering. The genre is not undeserving at all when well done. If anything, doing it well *is* an incredible achievement.

>>384247912
>It's actually 4chan posters that brought it to reddit
Redditor here help, it's actually a part of Reddit's formatting. If you don't do

this

then it doesn't get posted as a new line.

Obviously people on 4chan do it because it's cleaner on the eyes.

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>>384245271
>7/10s aren't worth playing.

>>384248220
So it's the same as 4chan then? I don't get it, I've always used paragraphs. It's not like you'd have to separate every single line on reddit either.

>>384248210
Because they are 100% always written badly. FF is the only series I personally like because it's so cheesy it's delicious.
Anyway I'm not using it to sneer in THIS case, because PS:T is one of my favourite games. But in terms of gameplay it's not the combat and puzzles which are in any way interesting.
>>384248254
Nigga I'm a NEET and I don't have enough time to play 7/10s.

>>384248145
That's funny because so many of the recent cRPGs are actually popular and well liked by the those people who supposedly hate all modern iterations of their favourite cRPGs.

Apparently we can't trash Numenera without trashing PoE, D:OS, Underrail, Wasteland, AoD, all of which are imho better than Numenera. Yes, I even enjoyed Wasteland.

>>384243408
>This game caught my eye because of the art. If it's bad, what CRPG should I play next?
It does some interesting things but I'd say those are mostly for purely academic interest in the genre. Overall it's not really that great. You're better off playing the original Planescape: Torment first.

If you want more Infinity Engine games you should give the first Baldur's Gate and the Icewind Dale series a try - however, they are significantly less story-focussed than BG2, so depending on whether you liked the dungeon crawling and killing things aspect of BG2 more and didn't care so much about the aspect of talking to people and having your party react to your interactions you might want to play those too.
If you want something more like Baldur's Gate 2 in terms of story-focus and NPCs that react to your choices you should give the KOTOR series and Dragon Age: Origins a try. Tyranny might interest you too, albeit I'd argue that you should only buy it when it's on sale since it's a bit mediocre.
Highly recommended would be the two Neverwinter Nights addons, Shadows of Undrentide and Hordes of the Underdark which have to be played in that order. Just skip the main campaign - it doesn't have anything to do with them. Neverwinter Nights 2 and Mask of the Betrayer are also highly recommended - the latter in particular which is easily one of the best RPGs of the 00s.
If you don't mind turn-based combat you should try Shadowrun: Dragonfall and Shadowrun: Hong Kong, which are both quite good as well.
Vampire - The Masquerade: Bloodlines uses a first person perspective, action based combat and it's not party based but definitely among the best RPGs ever made. Fallout: New Vegas uses a similar system but a more open-world approach.

>>384248416
No, I mean that if you did
this
then it would look like this:

>No, I mean that if you did this then it would look like this:

i.e. it'd all be on one line.

>>384248659
Wow you sure know a lot about reddit.

You have to go back.

>>384243408
>>384248652 continued
Fallout, Fallout 2 and Underrail are well worth playing, but they're turn-basedbased and single-character focussed with no party (or at least a party that is not in your control in the case of Fallouts). The Age of Decadence is also one of the more recent titles with turn-based combat and no party, but in terms of non-combat gameplay and branching narrative choices it set a new standard; it does however require a certain degree of frustration tolerance since the combat can be quite unforgiving.
The Elder Scrolls: Morrowind and the Gothic series are also worth taking a look at to see two of the best open-world approaches.

With that you probably have enough to play for now.

>>384248720
I went on 4chan way before I went on Reddit. And I'm trying to "go back" to 4chan, because Reddit is so bad it hurts...but it's addictive. It's like I want to be angry.

>>384248568
>Apparently we can't trash Numenera without trashing PoE, D:OS, Underrail, Wasteland, AoD, all of which are imho better than Numenera.
>Yes, I even enjoyed Wasteland.

Congratulations, most didn't.
Most said they wanted X, got X, and got mad for getting X instead of neo-X.

>>384248652
>VTMB
>definitely among the best RPGs ever made
Nah. It's good but it's got too much chaff.

>>384244907
define gameplay

>>384247815
>PS:T's literally nothing like those games.

PS:T is full of inventory puzzles, a trademark gameplay element of adventure games. Take the modron toy for example. Classic adventure game. Collecting items and using them at the right place or on the right item is what vast majority of the quests come down to.

Now name me a cyoa that is in any way similar to how you described Torment. If we are talking about a morality system and how important it is to you, the player, you would find examples among video games much more easily. Take Baldur's Gate for example. Your reputation changes entire cutscenes and powers you receive as you progress the story. I seriously hope you are not going to go ahead an call BG a cyoa too.

Torment is an rpg/adventure hybrid, like its creators and publisher correctly identified it as. What little it has in common with cyoas, it's not something that is unique to Torment among rpgs.

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>>384248853
That's a gross generalisation. Underrail for example got very little criticism from the even very hardcore crowd. So certainly something still satisfies that itch.

I'm sorry to say that it wasn't Numenera for many people. It might not be fair that your favourite iteration is relatively unpopular even among the masses on steam, but hey, develop a better game next time.

>>384243646

Wasteland 2 wasn't bad if you were expecting something like Fallout Tactics with some more freedom, i.e., like WL1.

I liked it.

>>384249078
>Underrail for example

Because 90% of people didn't touch it.
Underrail fills the same niche as Planescape Torment - a game you say you love and is your favorite to appear credible online, but you don't play and don't like.

>>384249159
>Underrail fills the same niche as Planescape Torment
Jesus fucking Christ. I applaud your creative imagination, but the idea that a lot of cRPG fans haven't played one of the most legendary cRPGs is ridiculous. I mean, it's not well known outside of cRPG fans, but that applies to practically all older CRPGs doesn't it?

>>384243408
Play the original instead.
Other worthy ones (that I've played) are Divinity Original Sin, Shadowrun Dragonfall, Morrowind.

I liked Numenera. However it is a very special game so people disliking it is very understandable. But as a P&C adventure game/CRPG it shines and are unique of its kind. You haven't played another game like it. And the setting is pretty cool.
If you play it you need to go in with a very open mind regarding what RPGs are.

>>384249340
cRPG fans are 14 people worldwide, the other two million say they are, because its hardcore and gives them cred.
Almost every person discussing Planescape Torment and its lore has only "played" it on Youtube.

>Underrail expansion soon

cant really get myself to care about any other game these days

can I play numenera without finishing pst

>>384249159
desu kys

>>384248036

It's a tough one to crack. Something I've been trying to express properly since release and failing.

To abuse old GNS theory to analyze a medium it wasn't exactly meant to address, I guess one way to say it is that the game is very gamist in its approach. There is no simulation wiggle room that would link narrative and other systems in surprising ways.
Everything feels by the book. More like an industrial design product than a game. Solid but utterly soulless - no pun on the game intended.

Even, in its own narrative, you have so many things that are interesting and would be worth exploring, both on a personal and more macro level, but you're not really a part of it, the interesting things exist, happen (the stakes of soul-research are so much more interesting than the heroic answers given to you on a plate), but they do not fit the by-the-book story you're here to live, so that's not what is being explored.

And useless rambling again. I tried.

>>384249074
>What little it has in common with cyoas, it's not something that is unique to Torment among rpgs.

What other cRPGs does that? What other games follow and aggregate player choices /depending on moral/ethical point of views - especially fiction-defined ones - to such an extent, and then change options and outcomes depending on the results?

>>384249004
The way in which you interact with the game, what you do and what the game does when you do it and what it feels like.

But I know I sometimes wrongly use "gameplay" instead of "combat system" because we don't general talk about the gameplay of a game when it comes to walking around, managing an inventory and talking to an NPC.

>>384249159
>Underrail fills the same niche as Planescape Torment - a game you say you love and is your favorite to appear credible online, but you don't play and don't like.
Sounds like you're projecting. Torment and Underrail are fundamentally different games that have next to nothing in common.

>>384249585
No, that's just you. You haven't played it, and you think the same applies to everyone else. It's not like the game wasn't well known, even in the 2000s. I mean I first played it when I was 10, and who'd honestly expect some kid to understand anything about PST? That tells you something about its popularity.

>>384243984

You're behaving as if that shit isn't part and parcel with RPG fags, especially P&P ones.

They're nerds that do degenerate story shit.

>>384249870
>>384249897
>le projecting meme

I am one of those bitter cynical jaded "cRPG fans", which is why I easily recognize all the posers. And I am not pointing fingers or anything, but statistically speaking, you two are such posers.

>>384249761
>What other cRPGs does that?

What cyoa does that? What you are describing is Torment's unique shtick, not something that marks it as a cyoa.

>>384249987
>statistically
Yeah, bet you have a whole slew of statistics about PST posers. But if you consider yourself a ''jaded'' cRPG fan apparently you were referring to yourself in your original post as opposed to any of us >>384248145

Which brings me, again, to the projecting ''meme''

>>384249585
When I first played PST back in ~2012 I'd agree with you. Because getting a proper thread about it was fucking impossible, even though everyone in RPG/recc threads went on about how good it was.
But today I've got the feeling that more people have tried out the old classics. Probably as a response to the kickstarter RPGs.

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>>384249585
I replayed it recently, there's nothing hardcore in Planescape Torment, you just need to be able to stay focused and take the time to read things.

Also games like Divinity Original Sin are really accessible. Only some of them are really tedious and you're bad only because you don't try to play them correctly. That happened to me and Pillars Of Eternity, I was underleveled for the last boss and too bored to find the quests I missed so I gave up.

>>384250070
>What you are describing is Torment's unique shtick, not something that marks it as a cyoa.

But it does it because it is set up as a CYOA, in a form that is that of CYOA.
It's not as if there was a lot of non-text interactions that actually mattered. There's no Witcher autopsy case. It's all about text, picking text options that lead to other choice-dependent text options.

And honestly, going by said Witcher experiment, I don't think any other tool robust enough that the CYOA set up to do this so far.

>>384250250
It was impossible because everyone played it already and already discussed it to death. You can't endlessly discuss the same video game over and over again. You just missed the boat m8, and there's no shame in that. Better late than never I say.

>>384249987
No, you're a subhuman moron who has no idea what he's talking about.

>>384250420
There are Morrowind threads daily, and people still talk about Fallout 1&2, Deus Ex, Baldur's Gate 2. These days there are a few on PST, but I'd say they've increased.
Obviously I missed the original talks surrounding the game. But the amount of people who talked about it, compared to the amount that put it in their 3x3, it just did not ad up.

>>384250353
>But it does it because it is set up as a CYOA, in a form that is that of CYOA.

No. It is set up as regular dialog trees common to video games, especially in the rpg genre. You are still trying to make it sound like Torment does something that cyoas in general do, but not other rpgs. And that is just false.

>>384249987
If you honestly believe that people don't actually like Underrail and cannot see the qualitative difference between Underrail and Numenera you must be out of your mind. First of all, the games are hardly comparable in the first place, second, Underrail does what it sets out to do extraordinarily well - Numenera does not.
There are some things that are interesting when it comes to Numenera, e.g. non-combat type of interaction in combat, but overall it's simply not that well designed of an RPG, that's why people criticise it.

>>384251117
>No. It is set up as regular dialog trees common to video games

And what do you think those are?

>You are still trying to make it sound like Torment does something that cyoas in general do but not other rpgs.

I'm saying Torment explores the possibilities opened by the CYOA set up in ways that most other games in the genre didn't. If any. And I do think it's the set up that allows for said exploration to happen.

>>384251550
>And what do you think those are?

Just that- dialog trees in a video game. You don't find those in printed cyoas, the free exploration and conversations were an innovation of video games. You don't find them in the CYOA series, you don't find the in Sorcery!, or in Fighting Fantasy, or Skyfall or whatever. Torment doesn't use dialog trees like a cyoa, it uses them like a video game. If there are digital ones now that have something similar, they have taken it from video games, not the other way around.

It's Planescape Torment if SJWs had made it. Don't waste your time on their pseudo intellectual, politicized remake of that great game, just play the original if in interests you.

>>384252606
>Just that- dialog trees in a video game.
>You don't find those in printed cyoas, the free exploration and conversations were an innovation of video games

So yeah, CYOA structure freed from having to describe things like movement and game related actions.

>>384253014
Again, your definition is so loose in the end it doesn't mean anything. If it doesn't look like a cyoa, doesn't play like a cyoa, doesn't branch like a cyoa, then it is not a fucking cyoa. And yet you argue that the game is not an rpg, and has nothing in common with adventure games.

>>384249074
No, what the vast majority of the quests come down to are moral choices which the player must reach a judgement on. The rest -- that is just a vehicle for the choice, and honestly, it's a bit of a vestigial one.

It's not actually the "morality system" I'm talking about. I'm not talking about the game's tracking of your alignment, nor anything like that. It's the moral *choices* I'm talking about, and because of the focus on *choice* I described it as a CYOA.
>>384249761
I think I know what you mean by "soulless". Do you mean like...the creators did things just for the sake of doing them? Not for any unified artistic vision? I don't know if you played it, but Dark Souls 3 is about the most soulless game I can think of -- would you compare the two games in terms of how they felt too clean to you?
>>384249340
It's actually very well known outside of cRPG fans. Moreso than others, I'd guess. It's got this legendary reputation for having an extremely engrossing story, which isn't really undeserved.
>>384249585
kek I will say almost anyone talking about Planescape lore has only "played" it in a certain vidya. It doesn't have a good reputation for setting actual PnP RPGs...
>>384250957
Honestly I know what you mean. I do the same with literature, for books I'm reading but haven't finished. I'd guess those people were doing something similar.

>>384253603
>doesn't look like a cyoa
>doesn't play like a cyoa
>doesn't branch like a cyoa,

I guess the issue is that I don't agree with any of those claims then.

>>384254138
>It's not actually the "morality system" I'm talking about. I'm not talking about the game's tracking of your alignment, nor anything like that. It's the moral *choices* I'm talking about, and because of the focus on *choice* I described it as a CYOA.

I'm thinking it's both though. The focus on choice, and the fact that the form it takes allows for manageable planning by the designer-writer and then tracking by the game of the aggregate consequences.

>>384254138
>Do you mean like...the creators did things just for the sake of doing them? Not for any unified artistic vision?

There is some of that yeah, definitely.
Though I'd say while I can see how one would feel that way about DaS3, I think it's the least of its problems.

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>>384254138
>It's not actually the "morality system" I'm talking about. I'm not talking about the game's tracking of your alignment, nor anything like that. It's the moral *choices* I'm talking about, and because of the focus on *choice* I described it as a CYOA.

But cyoas don't really put the focus on *choice* per se, they are games that have to be beaten. That genre is not one that gives a flying fuck about how you feel on certain issues, most decisions you make in them are a matter of life and death. It's a trial and error genre full of pitfalls. Or with gamebooks less immediate pitfalls (there are still many, just not every other choice), but ones that erode your resources until you die in a fight.

I'm simply not seeing the similarity between the genre and Torment. But I guess it's as >>384254228 said, we see it too differently. There is not much else I can add.

>>384256000
They are always based upon choice. They are only sometimes based upon moral choice, I admit, but it's their. For example, you often meet creatures in need which you have to decide to help (or not), usually with the choice being that standard "yeah you could save their life, but it'll cost ya", OR "yeah you could save their life, but can you trust them?". Then there's the little traps/trap-like things based around "there is a begging bowl, how much money do you put in" interactions.

But, I agree the comparison is not close to perfect. But it is a lot closer than classifying it as an adventure game.

>>384249154
Fallout Tactics was better, though.

>>384248042
>even when replaying the same class the experience can end up being completely different because you picked different skills.
No, not really. The class is made up of a skillset. AoD is incredibly linear and one of the worst recent CRPGs, I cannot fathom why anyone would think that dev deserves it.

>>384257663
>The class is made up of a skillset.
Nope, no true. There is a skillset associated with every faction-aligned class that guarantees you a free pass through their faction's questline, but that's not the only way to do them, just the most predictable.

>>384248754
Basically this. Fo1, Fo2, Underrail are great CRPGs, but you should probably:
-savescum
-be prepared to die to some stuff due to shitty luck without counterplay
-look up a build guide maybe

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>game has good branching
>can join the forces of light, betray them for the Empire bent on world conquest, betray them for the Forces of Darkness or say fuck all and kill everyone for a path where you are the true ruler
>can even kill canon waifu in your quest for power while she laments over how all she wanted was for you two to end up together as prophesized
>it's a JRPG

>>384260757
Well? What is it?

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>>384261114
Der Langrisser