Daggerfall

>procedural generation
DROPPED

Why can't we have real discussion on it?

>>384175982
Most willing to talk about it would go to /vr/.

>>384174573
I tried playing it once. Graphics are just too dated, even if it might be a great game. Even the movement felt clunky at times.

>>384174573
I couldn't get out of the first dungeon no matter how many times I tried

>>384174573
Played through the first dungeon, I'll give it a try some day. Played a lot of Arena though.

>>384174573
Char creation is basically a cheat mode.
If you are a fan of spreadsheets and gaming systems this is the game for you.

If you just like playing games not so much.

>>384174573
What is the UESP version OP? A custom version of the game by UESP?

>>384174573
Daggerfall is fantastic, I always assumed it wasn't talked about much because it's actually good. although you gotta admit, jesus fucking christ those dungeons.

>>384178513

It's a version of Daggerfall on the UESP Elder Scrolls site which includes a custom launcher which allows you to skip putting in DOS commands and has additional bugfixes/patches along with mods like EyeofArgonia which increase the draw distance

>>384177751

I never thought the first dungeon was that hard though some of the other ones can be complex

>>384175982

Honestly, the "real discussion" is
>>384174682

I tried it, having loved more modern Elder Scrolls games. I went to a few towns, they all felt the same. I went to a few dungeons, they all felt the same. The Overworld geography all felt the same. I did a few quests before running into an identical quest format, with the names of locations switched around.

It's the same reason why people who like Soulsborne don't like Chalice Dungeons, or people who like modern Elder Scrolls don't like Radiant Quests. Procedurally generated stuff, despite the intention being that each area feels different, tends to make everything feel similar.

>>384179543
sounds useful, thanks OP
Daggerfall is good game, I like the snow effects and music a lot

>>384175982
There isn't really a whole lot to discuss. It's a neat game and was really awesome for its time, but while it still has some fancy trimmings that later TES games don't such as banking and owning ships and such, it doesn't hold up for people who aren't nostalgic for it.

>Roll a new Daggerfall character every few months
>Make a minmaxed PC that takes advantage of all the character creation exploits
>Go for immediate lycanthropy infection for massive stat boosts
>Take out massive loan to pay Glenmoril coven to summon Hircine
>Get Hircine's ring to negate lycanthropy downsides and have most attributes at 100 within just a few character levels
Every fucking time

>>384179819
if you go far enough in the game you can actually find mountains
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lzvu1QPcHCo

>>384174573
Went to a random dungeon for loot. Got lost in it for 4-5 hours.

>>384181661

Can you name some of its flaws beyond the bugs and the fact some of the towns look similar?

>>384174573
I've tried several times to get into it but the way you interact and use the interface is a bit too archaic even for me, and I can play a good handful of DOS games just fine.

>>384179819
What? You think Skyrim and Oblivion dungeons are more unique feeling than Daggerfall dungeons?

>>384184397
It is very easy to get stuck if you don't know what you're doing. Character creation is incredibly obtuse and filled with skills that are functionally useless, again putting you at a severe disadvantage if you don't already know what you're doing. Rising in ranks at the guilds takes a tremendous amount of grinding, and there really isn't much variety to quests. Menus are slow to navigate and the game isn't good at handling large amounts of items. Dungeon mapping is almost useless, and very often the objective can require you to find some arbitrary hidden door which results in hours spent wandering aimlessly. Raising magic skills is a horrendous slog. Enchanted items eventually break, including Daedric artifacts, which is extremely frustrating. Summoning Daedric princes in the first place is an exercise in patience since they can usually only be summoned one day in a year, and if you miss it, too fucking bad.

I could go on, but really most of the game's problems are rooted in questionable or overzealous design decisions. I personally enjoy the procedural generation and general monotony, but the game unquestionably suffers from being highly experimental.

>>384174573
I don't normally agree with that "games age" meme but in this case Daggerfall just looks way too shit for me to even try. More importantly though it is way too buggy. If it weren't for the bugs I might have been curious enough to try it.

>>384184552


You can customize the controls to have a modern WASD format and disable the bottom bar to just basic health/mana/fatigue stats and compass

>>384184552
You can set the UI to fullscreen mode so it works more like modern TES games.

>>384186253
>>384186159
My main complaint is the map, it's so confusing to read since it's either ineligible or nothing but brown squares against a green background. The search function is also extremely picky too, like I can't search by key word it's only by the full name of things which sucks when you're given a place to go that has a long name like "The Cave of Gay Niggers Fucking One Another" or something along those lines.

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Unity remake Bro is making real progress

>>384186728
I thought you could only explore in it, are they adding quests and stuff now? Combat?

>>384177426
It doesn't even look as good as many Doom clones from that time period.

>>384187718
>gee, why does this massive non-linear game not look as good as this linear game, I wonder?

>>384187964
>Gee, you'd think they could've made decent sprites. I wonder if they'll use the same sprite over and over again?

>>384187964
I understand that you autist. That still doesn't help matters though for anybody who didn't grow up playing the game. There is no getting around the fact that it simply just does not look as good as most Doom clones from around that same time period.

Let us put it this way, had there been a version of Daggerfall with sprites as good looking as some Doom sourceports and level design to match I guarantee a lot more people would be open to trying it out. Although the insane amount of bugs is a whole other issue going against it.

>>384184587
yes because they literally are, they aren't procedurally made by an algorithm, they are handmade by developers

>>384190095
Oblivion dungeons were not handmade

nerd garbage

>>384190186
Pretty sure the dungeons were, but not the main worldspace.

>>384191623
They did go in and added detail to the world though. Which is why the world looks good despite being procedurally generated.

>>384191623
The main worldspace wasn't handmade, that's why the roads look unnaturally steep.

>>384188256

A lot of the character sprites are unique. There's a massive amount of character sprites from what I've encountered, and the character pictures you see in dialog windows are randomly generated like in L4D.

Was the world in Morrowind generated? It does not feel generated.

>>384188593

A lot of the bugs are patched in the UESP version, but you probably won't try it out because the only retro games Doom fans play are Doom and Nintendo stuff

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>>384174573
It's good. If I had to objectively rank it I'd put it at #2 just under Morrowind, but as for my personal preferences Daggerfall is the only TES game I can always come back to and play just for the fun of making a new character and seeing how things play out. I only really play Morrowind, Oblivion, or Skyrim these days if I'm trying out a new mod, having played them to death already.

>>384193220
Morrowind was hand-crafted, that's why it feels so much better than the other games. I'm pretty sure parts of Skyrim were randomly generated too, but maybe to a lesser extent than Oblivion.

>>384192352
The main thing about Oblivion I disliked is just how bizarre some of the world was. The main road leading up to the Imperial City must have been at an 80 degree angle, for fuck's sake. There's a lot of great things about that game but the landscape was so unnatural in parts it's hard to believe in it.

>>384193642

This is fucking amazing

>>384193642
this is why I love video games

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>>384194585
It's a shame, because only three simple ingredients are required to make it possible in any TES game:
Climbing
Levitation
Mounted combat

Of those, Morrowind's only got levitation, Skyrim's only got mounted combat, and Oblivion has none of the above. Sadly, this makes Daggerfall the only game in the series that lets you escape to the rooftops and transform into a horseman of the apocalypse.

>>384195314
That's why I have P-Froggys Wall Climbing for Oblivion, Vertical Limit for Morrowind and Sneak Tools for Skyrim.

>>384179819
I never minded procedural generation much. I think having a core of handmade content that is centered around the bigger questlines, and procedural generation to fill out the parts of the world not relevant to the main story or bigger side stories, would be a good way to increase the sense of scale and scope of the game world. I mean, as much as I sympathize with the critics of procedural generation, Skyrim's major capital cities that had a population of a dozen individuals each was too far in the other direction.

>>384197356

thats pretty much how Daggerfall is. I think most of the main quest content is handcrafted or at least edited, there is a lot of generated side content though