How do we fix turn-based combat, /v/?

Its fine

>>384146524
It's not

you don't. turn based will always be garbage because the core design is based off of decades old hardware limitations.

Telling the casuals to fuck off

It's the patrician combat choice, everything else is dumbed down memeaction for casuals, not even talking about RPG's either

off-topic, but what's the best 3ds smt game?

>>384146075
>why no twitchy shooty wooty

Fuck off baby

Stop trying to market to casuals and millennials, keep core turn-based combat to games they never heard of.

>>384146075
We don't.

>>384146698
SMT4 is fine - I didn't play 4-2.
You should also decide if you want to play Devil Survivor 2.
Persona Q is "a bad game".

>put limits on level grinding, like diminishing exp returns
>include customizable skill systems that make it possible for players to gimp themselves if they aren't careful
>bring back resource management; no after battle healing, limited save points, limited inventory

turn based is fine, but you can usually avoid common complaints by just making sure it isn't tedious. The reasons normies can get into persona is it's battles are quick and painless.

It's menus are also laid out really efficiently. Like in 5 I can instantly do exactly what I want in seconds without even reading anything 90% of the time.

>>384146075
Get rid of altogether.

>>384148637
this desu

Stay as far away from ATB as possible.

>>384147558
None of these have to do with turn based combat.

>>384147558
I'd say healing after fights, but limited health pots, and no mana pots. Making you choose, whether it's worth it to heal yourself now, or use that mana in a fight.

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>>384146075
Make this feature mandatory.

>>384146075
It's been fixed plenty of times but devs always forget it by the next game.

>>384146997
Not the same anon but whats wrpng with PQ?
I got a 3ds very recently and was looking towards SMT4 aswell as persona's direction

>>384149701
its basically etrian odyssey but with the cast of P3 + P4 amounting to nothing more than shallow tropes

for example chie and akihiko cant go a sentence without talking about meat/protein respectively

the gameplay itself is fine (if EO is your kind of thing)

i only got to the third labyrinth but that's all i took away from the game

>>384149701
>>384150052
Different guy, the game doesn't get any better. The plot is generic shit and a complete cop-out so it can remain "canon." Nothing about the game was memorable other than how they ruined the characters.

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Don't mind me, just the definitive role-playing experience passing through

>>384150052
Ken, Kanji, Naoto, Yu, Makoto say otherwise to this "Flanderization".

>>384150312
>the definitive role-playing
roll hit roll hit roll hit

>>384150312
So this is the power of From Software's hardcore Dark Souls... wow...
>>384146687

>>384150401
is that really more any more immersion breaking than not having combat in real time?

>>384149701
Its EO without most of what makes EO fun; there's no skill trees and party planning is basically limited to who can go in the back row without being unable to attack; with the way the skill system works very little differentiates the characters other than the few that get broken shit like debilitate.

>>384146564
Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't games turn based because they were based off old computer RPGs, themselves being based off tabeltop games? Ultima and shit like that were literally just D&D campaigns on a computer.

FFX-2 already exists.

>>384146548
name the things wrong with it then.

>>384150312
There's just one role to play though, what do you mean?

>>384146075
Persona 5's turn based combat system was basically all right. It's too harsh on the eyes but it's much snappier than any previous Persona game's combat, playing the animations as you navigate the menu rather than slowing everything down by waiting until you pick the attack.

>>384146075
By playing good games.

it's simple, the slower combat should allow for more complex mechanics

failure to add these complex mechanics and just keeping the game "press x to win" like a typical action game is a failure in game design rather than a failure of the turn based system

>>384150401
as opposed to what? scroll scroll click scroll click?

>>384146075
By making it like legend of heroes instead of Persona's fucking trash system that is inherently flawed

>Doesnt show you the turn order
>Doesnt want to show you any kind of speed stat

>>384149151
FF10 needed that due to how its turn based combat works. Turns can shift and change in that game.

Most games just let you look at who will go after you

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grids m8, grids

SRPG format is top-tier turn based model

>>384152906
>LoH
>Doesnt show you the turn order
Wut

>>384153297
LUCT is an awful example if you're trying to extol its genre.

>>384146075

It doesn't need fixing it's fine the way it is

>>384152913
>Most games just let you look at who will go after you
That's the problem though. I need to know not only who goes after me, but everyone's order. Will I be hit by 3 enemies in a row, or just one? Is that heavily damaged guy going to get a turn before, or after my AoE character?

>>384149151
I loved casting haste and slow, and having the whole turn bar full of Tidus and Rikku

If turn based RPGs survived until this day and age then they don't need fixing. They are simply not for you and frankly they haven't needed you to survive until now so the probability is high that they won't need you in the future either.

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>>384146548
>>384146564
>>384148637
>>384148789
>>384150312
>>384152303
Wow. Neo-/v/ sure is something.
>t.14 year old kids from neogaf

Make status inflictions more complex and matter more in battles. So like for example make Poison more distinct from Burning by having Poison last longer and Burning deal more damage, but shorter and affect a stat.

Don't make certain status inflictions better than other status infliction by too much like inflicting brainwash instead of sleep. Either make the more powerful inflictions more Mana expensive or require another move or something to inflict it.

Try to design your game to discourage grinding or make grinding not very rewarding.

>>384152906
Literally just press the d-pad to see who's next in Persona 5.

>>384146075
Stop making normal enemy encounters so mindless. If you can just spam attack, your best spell or an elemental weakness to get through 90% of your combat encounters then you're going about it wrong.

I like JRPGs but too often they fall into an "auto-battle and cure afterwards" habit. Some titles in FF and DQ go as far as having status effects and buffs/debuffs be ineffective against bosses, the place you'd actually be expected to utilize those mechanics. Lower the encounter rate and have the enemies be a threat requiring either a flexible strategy or good resource management to defeat.

RPGs that have a job system, deck building or a grid system tend to do that well, but I don't think any of those are absolutely necessary. They just prevent the developers from falling back on lazy habits. The genre wouldn't be associated with mindless grinding if that wasn't such a viable approach to beating the game.

Though I'd argue that there's other ways to make turn based battles interesting without actually making them mechanically interesting. Chrono Trigger is arguably the best JRPG of all time and is easy as fuck, carried by its flashy and creative dual tech system as well as a really brisk pace to combat. The Paper Mario and Mario & Luigi games are also jokes and really shallow, but because they have an optional timed element it encourages the player to stay involved even against a Goomba with 2 HP. There's no one solution.

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Phantasy Star IV perfected it years ago.

>fast animations that don't overstay their welcome but still impress
>can program several macros to automate certain strategies
>combo attacks
>four resources to manage (HP, TP, skills, and items)

>>384146075
Persona and overall SMT do turn-based combat pretty well, it goes the extra step then spam your strongest attack infinitely and on higher difficulties requires you to be aware of buffs and debuffs. If they took the chrono trigger example and didn't make a transition between battle mode and exploration mode I think it would be a perfect battle system

>>384146524
fpbp

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>>384146075
Doesn't need to be fixed, the problem is shitty developers who focus too little on making it balanced and fun. Games like BoFIV and nocturne (haven't played 4/4A yet) are fun to play because they offer fun systems that encourage experimentation.

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>>384155692
>Persona and overall SMT do turn-based combat pretty well
>Press one of the 10 weakness buttons to be awesome for free
>Good combat
No wonder /v/ is always bitching about turn based games, none of you people go beyond your safety zone then complain about it.

>>384154510
High lethality on random encounters is a big deal.
Eternal Sonata was a weird game, but one thing it nailed was keeping you on your toes against shit enemies.
Getting back attacked could wipe out two characters before you can even react in the later dungeons, so you pay really close attention and try to optimize the turns you get on a pre-emptive attack to avoid damage.

Give players a reward for finishing these really fast and deadly encounters (Tales of Zestiria had a movement speed buff) and you're on your way to making the concept stronger.

Personally I'm a sucker for switching party members mid fight but that isn't necessary to the system.

>>384157307
>Personally I'm a sucker for switching party members
See
>>384156425
In breath of fire IV you have you entire party on you at all times but only have three turns, basically allowing you to switch party members every turn. It's a brilliant system if you haven't played the game.

>>384146075
Fewer, but more difficult, encounters per dungeon.

>>384146524
/thread

>>384146075
have more of it. I'm tired of so many action rpgs having complete shit gameplay.

>>384146075
We don't because its fine when its not 3 man JRPG parties of heroic units fighting nameless mooks making the strategy part pointless.

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>>384146075
Have it require strategy. Turn based JRPG's usually don't offer that.

>>384146075
By having more of it, unlike this shitty real time action fad.

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>>384158687

>>384158687
>>384159067
>akairiot
He had his 15 minutes of fame, you can post good art now.

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>>384159393
You know I'm right.

>>384146075
add press turns

>>384159825
*Miss*
*Lose 2 turn icons*
*Enemy crits*
*Enemy turn presses*
Wooooooooow

>>384159825
The press turn system is shit.
Memorizing elemental weaknesses is not strategic depth. The press turn system makes exploiting weaknesses such an overwhelmingly efficient option that you'll never do anything else, reducing the variety of viable strategies.

>>384160261
That's a core mechanic that gives you more turns, but only one more turn, not infinite. I don't see how you can't use any strategy in conjunction with it. And besides sometimes you have to worry about screens removing all of your turn icons.

>>384146075
You just have to make normal enemies threathening. The only problem with turn based games is how often battles devolve into just picking "attack" over and over again.

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>>384146075
We don't. SE is chasing after the retards who don't like it so let them enjoy their XV's and what-not and everyone will be happy.
Except the people who wanted a good FF game, I guess.

>>384159825
Press Turn doesn't actually add anything in terms of mechanical depth; it just rears you for something you should already be doing (aiming at enemy weaknesses) and fucks you with a rake if the enemy takes advantage of it.

>>384146524
Done here lads. Close it up.

>>384161152
*rewards you

>>384161152
It makes party composition matter more and since 4 introduced skill affinity you can't just deploy any demon to have them rely to hit every weakness. And why is having the enemy have the ability to use this system a bad thing?

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>>384161417
good job

>>384146564
When are we going to update chess?

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it may not be a good game on the whole, but I rather liked Darkest Dungeon's combat, it kept me on my toes at least with the permadeath factor, and the classes felt just distinct enough for messing around with team composition to be fun

>>384146075
Make them more like X-com and Jagged Alliance.

Remove leveling systems entirely. Implement actual difficulty options instead of just hoping players grind not too much but not too little.

Your character unlocks new combat options (-not- just higher numbers) at fixed story points or as rewards for side quests. These should be given out as early as possible, but not so early that it overwhelms the player or gets stale by the end of the game.

Replace random field encounters with well-crafted mandatory encounters. Players should be free to travel without being subjected to the "gameplay" that is the traditional RPG mook encounter.

>>384159393
Yes, you must be at least at his level where your opinion on what "good art" is actually matters and carries weight right?

>>384150312
>implying any Soulsborne game is an actual RPG
hah

>>384146075
>Remove weeb shit.

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>>384146075
Bravely Second does a pretty great job of making turn based combat feel fun and involved

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>>384146698
Devil Survivor Overclocked, SMT IV Apoc (play IV first). Soul Hackers is cool but a bit dated

>>384153853
i was researching a bit on the yugioh anime and ended up on neogaf for the first time somehow. i never understood the hate til now...

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>>384146524
Mods do your job, thread over.

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How do we fix action combat in RPGs?

It's always very shallow and either feel very well or in every case where it does it's basically not an RPG anymore.

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How has no one posted the peak of turn based combat yet?

>>384150312
How is the definitive role playing experience one that has very, VERY little role playing?

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>how do we fix this genre I don't like
don't play the genre

>>384161791
It needs to be rebalanced.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0RHLtx9r2LA

>>384147558
>making it possible for the player to gimp themselves
Only if every skill is somewhat viable in it's own right.

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>>384159825
Press turn is garbage and singlehandedly ruined what little worth SMT's combat had.
It doesn't add anything, it's a literal snowballing mechanic that forces you to concentrate on hitting that weakness lever even more that you would in old SMT games.

Good combat is done by having a game with actual depth and mechanics that complement and rebalance each other instead of just stacking on top of each other.
You don't need 9000 status effects, you don't need a gorillion stats, you don't need three tiers of spells that make most of your toolset useless after ten hours, you don't need the same tired """resource management""" meme of hoarding shops for items just to thrud through dungeons or a battle, you don't need HP sponges and OHKO spam bosses.

You need a concise design where everything has its place and can be relevant at any point in the game, you need sensible enemy design, you need actual agency in the game's progression and world so that you have some replay value, you need to give the players more freedom instead of shoving premade characters down their throat which all use the same old class archetypes we've seen 30 years ago and that can't do anything other than their predetermined role or swap around some premade classes at best, you need to make a game where exploration is worth it and where you aren't bottlenecked by the main plot at any point in the game, you need to give players a good reason to waste their time going through the same old tired, empty dungeons seen a thousand times instead of rewarding them with a cutscene or a few chests, you need to give players a better reason to bother with your game than a generic save the world story.

There's many games that do that, but most people don't bother because at the end of the day they can't deal with games being actually different or challenging, they want handholding and total transparency because otherwise the game's unfair and artificially difficult, or they're EOPs, or both.

>>384146524
if you're a braindead casual
turnbased JRPGs are probably the dumbest AAA genre

>>384165665
>sulfur plz

>>384146564
If by core design you mean Dungeons and Dragons and other table top games.

I do believe Turn based games needs something to make it more appealing these days.

>>384166790
what about guns

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>>384166478
>AAA
>genre
Do yourself and your parents a favor and drink some bleach

>>384166790
None of the games even come close to D&D. D&D you have way more interactivity with your environment than any of these JRPGs. There are D&D games where you're table flipping in bars or strangling monsters with gigantic vines.

>>384165665
>lawmowing simulator

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>>384166478

(You)

>>384167137
Shut the fuck up

>>384167262
I never played the core D&D, were you able to do all that shit back in the 70s? Regardless, why not give those abilities to turn based games then?

>>384166440
Press turn literally makes combat more strategic since it's about stealing turns from the enemy. You can make an enemy lose turns through various means such as dodging or voiding attacks. Likewise, you can gain extra turns by exploiting weaknesses and landing crits. This high number of options means that absolutely any build and party set up is viable. There were many times in SMT where I beat a boss without exploiting their weakness once.

The press turn system is genius and one of the best turn based combat systems ever designed.

>>384167458
>Regardless, why not give those abilities to turn based games then?
Because it's too much to program and devs prioritize other things or they are lazy as fuck like every JRPG developer.

>>384167458
Requires a level of flexibility that's tough to achieve without a human running the show.
Noone wants to have to program every single possible interaction you could have with every single NPC or object.

>>384167620
It's kinda boring though. You're using the same archetypes for each demon. It's more planning strategy than anything. Higher level bosses sure, but eh. It's more about having demons that can fulfill their role. Some demons are great at supporting the team and can learn lots of support moves, other demons are simple damage dealers running magic, there are dedicated healers both in your team and in stock, you've got your dedicated dex/phys attackers etc. It's the same roles retreading every single time.
>have a phys demon
>fuse him with a magi demon for a more powerful overall summon
>have to fucking split it's role priorities, losing good skills from both roles
This^ is also way too common and annoying.
>oh shit samascream on my fucking healer
>now I'm fucked
It's shitty esp on long runs and I guarantee shit like that happens often on people's runs and it's so annoying

>>384168631
There's always a way to void and counter status effects. Be it through items, spells or other means.

>>384168631
*lacking samascream
Or sacrificing a good ass skill like Luster Candy on a demon that's running a full magick build and can't afford not to run x dyne skill etc.
Press Turn has its flaws but it's still good. It's just that demons are reduced to roles and have virtually zero individuality. Also
>>>>>enemy uses tetra/makra breaks
Op af^^^^

>>384167262
>D&D you have way more interactivity with your environment than any of these JRPGs.
How about no?
>There are D&D games where you're table flipping in bars or strangling monsters with gigantic vines.
There are JRPGs where you can make any female party member your wife, have a son and make her kill herself out of desperation by cucking her with a random female NPC.
There are JRPGs where your characters can keep on fighting at 0 HP and monsters have unlimited HPs.
There are JRPGs where you can control parties of 30 characters all at the same time.
There are JRPGs which predated TES' entire levelling system by decades.

But you're the umpteenth inbred imbecile who played a handful of games and makes assumptions on entire genres.
>>384167620
>You can make an enemy lose turns through various means such as dodging or voiding attacks.
90% of RPGs allows you to do that.
>Likewise, you can gain extra turns by exploiting weaknesses and landing crits.
Which is all there is to it, either push the weakness button or use a multihit tech and hope it crits for a free turn.
>This high number of options
There's no high number of option, there's literally two options, either you get a guaranteed crit or force one and it all leads to snowballing, it's garbage design made to mask a prehistoric and obsolete core design.

>>384152707
It's far worse for an action game to be repetitive than a turn based one

>>384169040
>here are JRPGs where you can make any female party member your wife, have a son and make her kill herself out of desperation by cucking her with a random female NPC.
>There are JRPGs where your characters can keep on fighting at 0 HP and monsters have unlimited HPs.
>There are JRPGs where you can control parties of 30 characters all at the same time.
>There are JRPGs which predated TES' entire levelling system by decades.

None of these are special or interesting. Have you ever played D&D?

>>384146075
Convert every enemy into cute girls so you won't mind waiting for your turn

I like the gambit thing in ff xii.
Also the timing your hits thing like in some games.

>>384168936
Why do you think I'm worried about status? Your dedicated healers, between them, someone needs posmudi and me patra or amrita etc. Most likely a stock demon, while the actual healer runs media skills. Or healing know how. Point is, I already know there are plenty viable options to avoid status or prevent it. What's your point?

>>384167262

Honestly, D&D (And other table tops in general) has way more varierty and freedom than any other game, even if we only count combat mechanics.
Vidya has several ineherent limitations that do not exist in D&D.

>>384161502
I never said it was. I was saying that it doesn't actually make the system of hitting elemental weaknesses more complex, just more dire.

>>384169294
>Have you ever played D&D?
Yes, but I'm 30 now and don't have time to waste with autist with their make pretend "games".

>>384169829
Then why would you list dumb shit?
>make pretend "games"
Isn't that what all story based video games are?

>>384169829
>30
>posting on /v/
>don't have time to deal with autist

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Anyone play this game I fucking loved it

>Move crosshair to enemy shoot, if it's the head they die instantly.
>How do we fix FPS

>>384170280
Maybe add a RNG make it like fallout 4

>>384169712
The enemies having the ability to use turn press makes party composition matter more, therefore it makes combat more complex.

>>384150312
More like the definitive roll playing experience

>>384159825
It's a shit concept, enemies otk kill you before it's your turn on higher difficulties. That's not skill or a challenge, it's bullshit.

>>384170523
Kek

>>384170280
I wish fps was slower and less "realistic" by implementing auto target on enemy players. If you can see your enemy you can cycle to them using the bumpers and RT click to shoot.

Turn based combat is objectively the best combat in video games.

>>384169408
This should just be an optional to play game mode added for all games.

>>384170767
Except for versus battles sans Pokémon

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By making it fun

>>384170587
Don't get jumped like a bitch ass punk and it doesn't happen

>>384170072
>Then why would you list dumb shit?
Because you're dumb enough to make baseless assumptions and compare a tabletop game to a videogame.
>Isn't that what all story based video games are?
Not really, there's a fine difference in telling a story in a self contained set of rules and making shit up on the fly with a vague ruleset.

The reason why D&D and other tabletop games have more "variety" or "freedom" than videogames is because they're not even actual games at their core, you're playing make-pretend games for children with a rulebook and some guy who decides whether they had enough of your bullshit or not, comparing a structureless "game" to an actual game with a strict ruleset and defined structure is beyond stupid.

Do you also complain about marathons being less interesting than parkour?

Which is better, the combat where turns come individually or you input your whole team moves for one turn?

>>384171112
>Because you're dumb enough to make baseless assumptions and compare a tabletop game to a videogame.
So, exactly what you did?

>>384146524
yeah it's alive and kicking

>>384171234
Turns come individually in my opinion. It's easier to keep track of.

>>384170478
What I'm trying to explain is, again, hitting enemy weakness and protecting your own is something you should already be doing, Press Turn just makes these mechanics more lethal. What Press Turn adds to this is a snowball effect; by hitting weaknesses you gain more actions, meaning more damage, buffs, etc. If anything it actually reduces the number of options you have because why the hell would you ever want to do anything other than hit weaknesses if you get more actions for doing so?

>>384171368
>I need someone to hold my hand
FUCK OFF

>>384171281
>no u
Piss off, son.

>>384171424
>making things harder for no reason
Ok kid.

>>384170478
Barely.
>ok so this area of the game has lots of ice using enemies
>ok if I make new demons will make sure they can counteract that
This^ never happens and even for bosses it sometimes won't matter bc pierce, and regular enemies are too slow. That would give more strategy but it never comes down to that unless you're underpowered which you shouldn't be.
>ok so the enemies here are weak to fire and force attacks
>let's just run demons using fire and force.
This^ is 99% of the time what happens until the boss. Than the strat goes
>luster candy
>exploit weakness
>debuff
>remove debuff
>heal after the almighty attack
Etc

>>384171234
Individually, it makes sense that some party members would be quicker than others.

>>384171517
How about you just get good faggot. Or just stick to undertale.

>>384171615
Fucking smt games do turns individually and those are pretty difficult turn based games.

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>>384171112
>raping in a children's game
>murder in a children's game
>bestiality in a children's game
You're not wrong that the other anon is being retarded, but you lack any understanding of D&D and other tabletop games.

>>384171112
>Because you're dumb enough to make baseless assumptions and compare a tabletop game to a videogame.

Read my man.

>Do you also complain about marathons being less interesting than parkour?
I would if running a marathon was all automated and I was just sitting on a trolley

>>384171803
>SMT
>difficult

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>>384171983
Now I know your trolling.

>>384171803
>smt games are difficult
GET THE DUCK OUT RIGHT FUCKING NOW JUST FUCKING DIE ALREADY YOU WASTE OF SPACE WORDS AND A REACTION IMAGE CANNOT DESCRIBE THE HATRED I HAVE FOR YOU

>>384171368
It's easier the other way around imo.
>did I makarakarn already
>did I use charge/concentrate/critical eye yet?
>am I supposed to heal now or wait?
Press turn and individual party members instead of the group all at once is more confusing for me, esp on long runs. For example in Pokémon it's a much less active involvement and concentration and is closer to prediction and match ups.

>>384172110
But anon they are the dark souls of persona.

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>>384172109

>>384172110
Go play SMT1/2. Theybare bullshit and they are hard.

>>384172109
>8 turns of Bufu
>reload if you get Walter

Sure mate

>>384171983
>>384172110
SMT is always hard at the end. Mismanaging macca or fusing unhelpful demons at the higher levels makes it trying at the end. Also getting lost

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>>384171803
>and those are pretty difficult turn based games.
>SMT
>Difficult
Ah, yes, 3tier Luster Candy and spamming guaranteed crits or Charge+whatever strongest attack you have in the game while healing and using dekunda once in a while is indeed the pinnacle of difficulty and good design.

>>384146075
By having everyone act in turns make sense withing the story itself --- like South Park did it.

>>384172372
>>384172386
>my fuck ups make the game harder
Geez you don't say...

>>384172427
Implying the enemy isn't going to erase your buffs.

>>384172427
You're post does prove press turn and turn based combat in general needs to be fixed though. Idk where you stand on that but

>>384172372
>get nerve bullets
>get Estoma

>>384172559
So rebuff wow what a concept

>>384172559
I guess that's why he said 3 tier

>>384165665
my nig

>Press turn

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zIjVvnO5lgM

>>384172680
Have you played? Usually when a enemy erase you buffs he erases all your buffs
>>384172678
Wow waste my turns repeatedly replying buffs, nice. luckily imposing stance is a thing.

>>384172680
>Dekunda doesn't exist

>>384172678
>Wasting more SP

>>384172534
At the end of the game where MC hits the level cap and macca is hard to come by given all the side quests are complete, it does make the game harder. You have to constantly expend resources and gather resources trying to beat the final bosses. How would you know it's a mismanage of macca if you can't predict whether or not x demon will be helpful? I've beaten Soul Hackers and IV and Vishnuu Flynn in IV:A is still whooping my ass. Also
>hour number 9
>tired now
>oh shit he drains gun
>team wiped
All the time

>>384146075
You basically posted the answer you faggot

>>384172785
The problem here is not press turn, it's beast eye.

>>384146075
By not making turn based combat anymore. No one takes turns hitting each other in a battlefield.

>>384172864
>>384172910
So git gud and stop complaining

>>384173003
Baton pass was so fucking nice desu

>>384172864
In one of those games they don't debuff you if you don't buff to max.

>>384173028
>muh realism

>>384172864
Yeah but it doesn't stack and it's a momentum killer. You can only use it once and then your opponent crits next turn making it a non issue.

>>384173030
I did. Doesn't mean I didn't think they were difficult, vishnu Flynn took me a couple hours to beat (including fusing) on war mode.

>>384172981
You should have known what was going to happen at all times and be prepared.

>>384150903
Well, there is ONE glaring flaw that nobody really seems to notice.
>Turn based

>>384171029
Happens with mini bosses and boss fight too

>>384172981
Vishnuflynn is pretty easy with Imposing Stance (remove turn) since he only Dekunda/Dekaja on the first turn

>>384173028
Fuck off babby. Go play bayonetta or god of war and get out of the thread

>>384146524
fpbp

P5 already fixed it.

>>384170270
I guess nobody cared nor played it.

>>384173170
Kek I am and 95% of the time your demon team WILL fuck over the enemy once you get their weaknesses. But prepare all you want press turn fucks you over on long runs

>>384146075
you don't fix what ain't broken

>>384173223
Yea imposing stance is how I beat him. Still a bit of a bitch but he is manageable with imposing stance. I went massacre though so not having a partner for healing was such a fucking bitch

P5 really did a good job with the action selection thing.

>>384173361
95% is not 100% by which I mean being prepared at ALL times. Turn based games are piss easy only retards can't beat an jrpg

>>384173212
Honestly preemptive strikes from bosses and mini bosses aren't that bad in my personal experience. I understand though. Soul hackers particularly did that alot

>>384173223
I went massacre too. Tips? Who should run imposing stance? Build?

>>384172981

Vishnuu Flynn wasnt even hard, Cleopatra is miles ahead of him.

positioning elements

>>384150312
Just arrived at that exact point earlier. Dark Souls 3 can be so beautiful

bravely default did a decent job of innovating and adding a layer of complexity. it was one step forward. now all we need is a mix between bravely default and the turn order system from FFX and you'd have the beginnings of a great system.

Am I the only one who found P5 boring as fuck? Didn't even leave the first palace.

>>384173740
Like front back positioning or all out srpg style?

>>384173543
No I'm not saying that. The problem with turn based is
>pvp
>boss fights
>random enemy encounters are trivialized or tedious
This is the issue here. Steamrolling through the game is easy but a majority of rpgs either make variety difficult or unsuccessful in team building, with a meta that's basically the same cookie cutter compositions.

>>384146075
I'd prefer more turn based strategy games. Preferably with operatoring ala SWAT.

>>384172596
My post only proves that SMT's combat is garbage, go play games with actual good combat design and we can talk.
>>384173543
>Turn based games are piss easy only retards can't beat an jrpg
Sure buddy.

>>384173674
Who did you run? Builds, tips, etc?

>>384173663
I put imposing stance on Nanashi and Inanna so I could have Inanna heal occasionally without missing a imposing stance. In Vishnu Flyn's first phase he will ALWAYS get rid of your buss on his first turn, but in his second phase he attacks more and does it less so you can stop the imposing stance spam in his second phase,

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Dungeons.
Duh, make them a hell to navigate through, make the mobs require a variety of skills to deal with, force item management to its brim with traps and ailments and dark zones so you can beat the boss in good health.

>>384173872
Yeah, same here. I'm at Futaba's palace and no matter how many times I try to play it again, I get bored in 15 minutes and go play something else. Pretty weird considering SMT is one of my favorite franchises, and Persona 3 was my absolute favorite game for a while. Being young helps, I guess.

>>384173663
Also my team was Shiva, Inanna, and Odin.

>>384156725

SMT feels great due to its "fuck them up before they fuck you up" nature - right up until you realise that the press attack system is so utterly two dimensional.

I genuinely don't think a turn based system has been as good as Golden Sun.

>>384173663
Go full on with Luster and Debilitate and a demon that spam IS every turn (hell I put it on Nanashi even). Make sure that they all have enough HP/Endure to survive the first turn (He does Antichthon+a random skills). After that it's the usual

He dekaja/dekunda and Antichthon less in the 2nd phase too

>>384174072
Examples that I may have played? What do you think is good? I've played FF Tactics, the newer fire emblems on 3ds, Drone Tactics (atlus), advance wars, LOTR for GBA, most Pokémon etc. and maybe more.
in my experience the best turn based rpg was Drone Wars and Advance wars as far as mechanics go.

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>>384174313
>I genuinely don't think a turn based system has been as good as Golden Sun.
I feel sorry for you then.

>>384161791
It called SRPG :^)

>>384174313
Golden sun was a generic as fuck game. Text out the ass for a shitty story and when the game finally allows you five miutes without text it's just spam attack on rnemies and you dijins against bosses.

>>384174229
It helps to know that SMT and Persona are two different seriesthat happen to share some elements.

>>384174230
Thanks. I've already got Inanna and Odin I'll pick up Shiva too (dirt cheap demon)

>>384174645
It's strange how good Shiva is considering how easy he is to get.

>>384174394
Gotcha, I've got plenty of demons running that stuff. Is Izanami usable at all? Just got her

>>384174089

Only really remember having a Phys Nanashi and Matador (With critical eye, his sig move and a bunch of passive skills), plus an Imposing Stance bot and a healer/buffer. Ran Navarre because he is overpowered as fuck.
Honestly, thats pretty much all i have been doing all game. Luster Candy, debuff, crit eye + charge on Nanashi and go to town. Apoc feels a lot easier than other SMTs i have played, if we ignore the DLC.

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>>384174493
Go play this game(and series really) if you want actually well designed JRPGs, I'd put Unlimited over it but it's absolutely not for plebs or the weakwilled.

>>384174790
He p much sets the standard for physical attackers it's unreal. Way better than Chi You and guys like Seth and Anat. What set up should I use?

>>384146075
You just posted the solution.

>>384174790
He's like the bahamut/Moonlights or something of the series.
High level and amazing demon, reqs for fusion being the same in every installment since (Barong+Rangda).

>>384175207

It partly depends on the difficulty. Critical Eye over something like Charge is pretty valuable in Apocalypse mode where you are going to miss a lot, as is Draconic Reaction.
Aksha Arts is a must, naturally. Hell's Thrust is an option over Hadles Blast. Phys Pleroma, High Phys Pleroma and Phys Pierce are all great.

>>384175207
He's better as fusion fodder with his great passives and Akasha Arts for Phys MC. Odin get an Akasha Arts that always pierces and Matador's Andalusia damage is unreal

>>384174938
KEK ok nonny
>>384175818
>been ignoring critical eye this entire time
How bad is it?

>>384173919
srpg style

>>384176034
>also can't beat matador rn
Fuck my shit up

>>384173919
Srpg. Front and back row shit is for babbys

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>status effects exist and are varied
>Never work on bosses
>not even the case of certain ones being nulled but literally everything in the fucking game
>Random encounters aren't worth the MP wasted to inflict it in most games or autobattle is better
>entire classes invalidated with a lot of moves
What's the fucking POINT? They need to stop this shit.

>>384146075
No grinding.
No catch-all "mash attack to win" solution.
Enemies should require critical thought to defeat, but still allow for creativity on the user's part in how they overcome them. Less mob enemies, but more interesting battles.
Ban medieval settings and gods as the final boss.

>>384176832
Status effects shouldn't work on bosses,

>>384177040
God as the final boss is the coolest shot and is a staple of jrpgs, wierd thing to complain about man

>>384176832
Status effects exist only to fuck over the player, not to be used. As simple as the series is pokemon honestly does status effects better then most series as they have other effects, like burning a opponent not only damages them but cuts their attack by half.

They would never be able to make fast paced srpgs with quick battles.
Even getting to the enemy is tiresome, not to mention going through the menus to select the actions.

>>384177041
No, they should. Bosses being immune to status effects is a result of de a being too lazy to balance their game properly.

>>384177041
Nah I think they should not allow the ones that would break the battle too much (like brainwashing or anything like that) and make other status infliction less potent or harder to inflict.

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>>384177040
>Ban medieval settings and gods as the final boss.
Both can be done very right, so no.

>>384177154
Name me five jrpgs where god/a god is the final boss. Smt is a cop out answer.

>>384177301
Xenoblade Chronicles

>>384177301
Basically and Atlus game, Earthbound, Final Fantasy, Chrono Trigger, Fire Emblem, and I'm sure I'm missing plenty

>>384171021
>create the best turn based rpg system
>shit all over it a decade later
man I hate Nintendo some days,

>>384176221

Critical Eye is pretty good, especially on Apocalypse since enemies are much more likely to dodge. Critical hits can not miss, and the crit can give Smirk to the demon, which opens up for another crit and gives you more press turns.
Charge is probably better at War and below, but CE is incredibly useful for Apocalypse, and it becomes even better when used alongside multi-hit moves.
Something like Matador's Andalusia becomes far more effective with CE, since it can strike up to 12 times. The odds of that not missing at least once (Which will make you lose actions, nullify your bonus action and Smirk even if you crit the other times) are pretty low, even with Draconic Reaction thrown in there. Hell's Thrust also benefits, since it has an extra effect if you are Smirked and hits multiple times.
If you are on War and below, it is fine to use Charge over CE outside of Matador/Hell Thrust user, but it is godly for Apocalypse mode.

>>384177676
>final fantasy
Only one that counts is VI
>earthbound
>chrono trigger
Both aliens.
>fire emblem
One game.

"God is the final boss of every jrpg" is a dumb meme that barely applies.

>>384177041
they absolutely should be should just be half as effective.

>>384177041

Prevent the stronger ones from working, while shit like Poison is signficantly weaker and i agree. Especially on games where Poison's tic damage builds up.

>>384178232
>lower chance of landing on bosses unless that is boosted by external methods (boosts, gear)
>lower basic duration
>lower potency/damage outside of boosts
There.

>>384146075
Persona 5's combat doesn't have a whole lot of depth but it never really got stale for me.

It's fine as long as you're not leaning too heavily on the combat as a mechanic.

>>384154654
I still don't get why other games haven't let us create macros yet.

Also combo attacks I haven't seen except in this and Chrono Trigger

>>384146075
Take the best parts from Mana Khemia, but make status effects be actually worth a damn.

>>384178232
>>384178490
>>384178507
What about if bosses are immune to most but have one they're weak to, like a robot boss weak to paralysis.

>>384150892
This. FFX-2 is the pinnacle of turn-based combat.

Shame it was wasted on a game where even the hardest battle is piss easy.

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>>384148637
bat wat abaut paple wha lika tarn bas cambat

>>384178819
That's even worse than no weaknesses since it just encourages you to spam the same status effect for an easy win, which is even more mind-numbing than the alternative
.

>>384178784
Digital Devil Saga has combo spells
Been like 10+years though

>>384178819

I feel this would depend on how powerful said status effect is, the boss' resistance and how long it lasts. There needs to be some balance to make sure focusing on the status effect is a viable strategy, but without making it too good or objectively superior to other strats.

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Timed hits

That's really all you need

>>384178819
i would say the opposite is better, have a lava boss who is immune to things like burn, paralysis and other things that lava wouldnt give a fuck about. every other status effect that logically makes sense would still work like slow and curse.

>>384146075
Play Helen's Mysterious Castle.
It's a dynamic turn-based battle system with thought-provoking gameplay tactics that differs based on the type of enemy.

Instead of levelling the character, you level the weapon you're fighting with - every weapon has a cap that you'll reach fairly quick and it's clear that you have to throw old weapons away and familiarize yourself with new weapons and their unique behaviour. But stick with your favourite weapon long after you reach its full potential - then you'll be given the opportunity to master its level and bestow a unique ability onto the weapon, further increasing its combat ability.

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Already fixed

Turnbased tactics games manage it fine.

>>384165665
what game?

>>384180170
>Sill no localization

Vita was a mistake...

>>384181153
The game has like a billion lines of text, localization will take years if it ever happens. We're getting RS3 remastered in English though, at least that's something.

>>384180773

Mana Khemia.

Enjoy some comfy school-music for your interest: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GLD8fySAj6Q

Post games with good dungeon maps

>>384165665
I'd a Nikki

>>384182265
Get in line.

>>384181726

SMT

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>>384181726

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>>384165665
>>384165665
You posted the wrong game stupid.

>>384172109
only hard for normies and hoys.

i actually beat him first try with hoy hoying it up, medusa was a far larger difficulty spike.

>>384182946
Such a well designed final dungeon, they weren't joking when they said it was massive.

>>384183550

VP is good, but it's not Mana Khemia. Not even almost.

>>384160053
>>384160261
>>384161152
>>384166440

t. fags who can't beat SMT games

Everyone should just play Atelier Totori!

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>>384184058
>being defensive over the system not being that great

>>384146075
>I want to have a turn-based combat game thread but nobody will pay attention if I call it that so I'll just post bait instead

when in Rome

>>384146075
let the player freely set the speed for the animations. some people just want to get through the turns as fast as possible without having to wait ages for animations they've seen a million times.

>>384178109
BOF 2 3 4
xenogears
xenosaga
xenoblade
fire emblem gaiden radiant dawn and awakening
yggdra union
ff6 7 13-2
Lufia
rune factory 4
some of the dragon warrior games (optional post story content)

i feel like your really stretching to split hairs. Especially since any abrahamic god cannot be killed as they are defined. A god is a god don't act like a god of X doesn't count since they aren't the alpha and omega of everything.

>>384184679
not even that anon but its pretty solid, especially given the legacy system they have going. Press turn adds a nice double edge sword to the turn base mechanics that OP was asking how to be fixed. If it aint your cup of tea I'm not gonna lick press turns nuts but I found it a nice little twist kept me playing the game more than some other titles. I need to beat SMT4 im right at the end of it too.

>>384154510
I don't play much JRPG's but of the ones I have (especially so in Final Fantasy) I've noticed that a lot of times your characters are way too overpowered for the vast majority of the enemies you fight. Like you said a lot of times those debuff spells you get won't even work on boss enemies when that is where you would expect that stuff to come in most handy.

I remember in FFX they made each characters skills feel so much more important due to how the battle system in that game worked and the enemies supporting it.

Then again I don't think most would want a rock/paper/scissors mechanic in an JRPG either. Pokemon is the same lame ass gameplay in that regard and from what I understand the newer games just keep getting easier since they mainly make them for people to battle each other.

>>384165496

Why does degeneracy run rampant in the speedrunning community?

>>384177181
>>384177161
>>384177181
>>384177041
>>384176832
Make a skill that converts status attacks into either almighty damage or an element the user is proffiecent in. That way they can do damage. It shouldn't be passive but it should affect the whole party.