Which side is in the right, /v/? How do you discourage grinding?

>>384104727
I like being OP with random encounters and shit, but the game should have some bosses that are still tough, no matter what.

Also, endgame should reach level cap. It's dumb when max level is 99 and a lot of cool stuff is tied to the max level, but you reach the final boss on level 45 (like in Persona 1). I loved the way SMTIV handled it, you can reach level 90 without even grinding.

>>384104727
I like soft level caps.

What if you make grinding give diminishing returns and/or no xp?

>>384104727
Grinding can be cathartic in turn based JRPG's. Just throw a podcast on, set the music to high, and just grind out on some fights until they become almost muscle memory in how to win. And then when you come back to the game "for serious" you've got a bit of a head start on the next story area.

>>384105268
Or just don't grind when you play.

>>384104727
I hate having to abandon equipment I like because it becomes weak or obsolete in relation to my player level

>>384104727
Grinding is my jam, DQIX with my one character waa a fucking ride and a half.

>>384104727
>search it
>7 chapters released
>story title indicates it's another "but I'm in an mmo!"
>last chapter was in may
FUCK EVERYTHING

>>384108945
It's not very good anyway.

>>384104727
If you want to grind, that's fine. If you don't want to grind, that's also fine.
The people in the wrong are the people who complain that it's too easy or too hard after making it too easy or too hard for themselves.

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>>384105268
>my face The Last Remnant would rape your ass if you grinded to much

>>384108945
It's not MMO.

>>384104727
I believe that entirely depends on what kind of atmosphere the game is trying to give, but generally I think that giving the choice to do both is the right answer. In which you CAN grind, but you don't necessarily HAVE to grind in order to win. You MIGHT have some losses but it won't be too crippling or disadvantageous to continue on til the end as long as the player doesn't stray off, or alternatively the player can grind to heart's content and coming on top against encounters that they should NOT have won, leading to different, pleasant surprising divergence in plot but not physically desirable to the point of making players abandon their carefree playstyle and grind in order to be 'optimal'.

this is also the reason why I hate it when dead party members/units don't get/lose exp when they die during the fight, it just creates unnecessary gap that players have to bridge. Systems where they provide exp per how much each character/unit dedicated to the encounter are way better since it lets them do what they have to do without worrying about landing hits or dying.

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>fucking love Disgaea
>love grinding in Disgaea, have hit lv.9999 in every game released
>play literally any other JRPG
>fucking ABHOR doing any sort of grinding whatsoever and always attempt to cheese bosses with underleveled characters
I don't understand it, I guess Disgaea just takes a very unique approach to it's grind or something.
Anyway I like when a game allows you to grind, but never lets you get the idea in your head that you're unbeatable. Disgaea likes to throw lv.4000 enemies in a lv. ~200 area just to say "hey, your shit isn't actually that hot". Or Death in Persona 4, it's cool seeing how strong enemies can REALLY get so even when you clown a story boss, you know there's always something out there to beat if you truly decide to go hardcore.

>>384108945
No you don't get it, this may seem like all the others "trapped in a MMO" but it's totally different!

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>>384104727
>People spend hours grinding everything
>Then complain the game is broken and too easy
I don't.

>>384104727
>How do you discourage grinding?
By removing leveling systems entirely

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>grinding is actually bad and locks you out of special quests and such

>>384112014
There are two reasons and it could be shortened to that you can't really grind in Disgaea.

First is that, you're not really grinding as described above. The fun in leveling in Disgaea is that you're more finding ways to gain levels faster rather than doing the same shit over and over. There is also progression in the sense of seeing your character gain a ton of numbers every time.

Second is that, unlike what OP pic shows, there will always be a challenge in Disgaea. The series has a ton of side bosses and Item Worlds with scaling difficulty with Baal normally being the end all. You know there will always be a challenge to face so there is never any feeling that all you're doing is for naught.

For another good example, Persona games I find fun to grid namely that every level you gain access to new things to fuse plus they always have mechanics that discourage over grinding such as the Fox's ridiculous amount of money and the aformentioned Reaper.

It's a good balance to strive for.

>>384112146
But it is quite different, the gimmick is actually pretty funny. The game is actually single player JRPG filled with all kinds of dumb bugs, which MC abuses to survive.
Though I can't say much, because both manga and light novel are barely translated.