Who did you side with in Skyrim? And why was it the Stormcloaks?

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I sided with the Empire because I'm not a retard.

Talos worship being "illegal" is the main issue people have with the Thalmor but then for some reason they ignore the fact that there is a priest opening worshipping Talos and inciting others to do so in one of Skyrim's main cities which is actually controlled BY the Empire.

People who go Stormcloaks are in favour of massively weakening the best defence against the knife-ears for the sake of installing an uppity retard who values "muh heritage" over future prosperity of his country.

The Empire probably could have finished off the Elves if not for the treachery of some of their subjects, and lets remember that the civil war in skyrim is literally only happening because an oppotrunistic nordshit decided to kill some other nords for the sake of some bizarre feign for independence.

The Thalmor absolutely want the Stormcloaks to win as it plays right into their hands.

The Empire aren't a brutal autistic oppressive overlord, but the Stormcloaks are.

The Empire is only "weak" because of people like Stormcucks and Redniggers being untrustworthy jews.

AROUND NORDS LOCK YOUR DOORS

>>384060131
> inciting others to do so in one of Skyrim's main cities which is actually controlled BY the Empire.
Only it isn't. Whiterun is run by a neutral Jarl that refuses to allow legion forces to fortify themselves there until the civil war starts, and if the empire managed to beat back the Stormcloaks from Whiterun then Heimskr goes to prison precisely for Talos worship.

Don't forget that there's Thalmor Gestapo running around Markarth and that they have a fortress specifically for rooting out Talos worship in Legion territory..

>"muh heritage" over future prosperity of his country.
Only they aren't. The empire are hugely crippled by the White-Gold Concordat so any attempt at rearming themselves for a second war is going to be frustrated from the inside by the Dominion. An independent alliance of Tamrielic states on the other hand would not have this problem - and Hammerfell had already proven this when they defeated the (albeit weakened from the war) Dominion.

And prosperity? Where's the prosperity for Skyrim if all their resources are going back to rebuild Cyrodiil? At this point being in the empire is a net burden on Skyrim's economy when they only other states in it are basically post-apocalyptic shitholes.

>if not for the treachery of some of their subjects,
If they could have they would have. They lost and that's that.

>The Thalmor absolutely want the Stormcloaks to win as it plays right into their hands.
Only they don't, they say right in the Dossier on Ulfric that Legionfags bang on about so much that they DO NOT want a Stormcloak victory. They want the civil war to go on indefinitely.

>The Empire aren't a brutal autistic oppressive overlord, .
The Empire:
Bans Talos worship and allows literal inquisitors to torture citizens.
Executes border hopping Dragonborn without trial.
Literally so shit someone called out a hit on the Emperor for the first time since Pelagius.

The Stormcloaks:
Some Nords are a little bit racist to Dunmer sometimes.

>>384059567
Making fun of autistic people is offensive.

>>384061410
The Empire didn't do any of the things you said they did, they only did so because they got cucked by knife ears because integral members of the empire fucked them over.

What do you think happens if Stormcloaks win? What's the plan? How are they going to fight off the Knife Ears? You know the Thalmor will come for them, and that they absolutely have 0 hope against them alone.

The Empire are the best defence against humanities greatest threat-the elves-and Nords of all people should want to aid them.

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>4E201 the year of our Martin and savior
>going anything but the glorious Empire

I guess you were remembering that one time the Empire were the bad guys in that one Elder Scrolls game, right?

>not joining the Imperials to keep Skyrim united against the Thalmor threat and assassinating the emperor through the DB questline so that his successor actually gets the Empire's shit together

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>>384060131
>I sided with the people who wanted to cut my head off because I'm not a retard

you know someone is a skyrimbabby when they choose stormcucks

>>384061769
As soon as Martin died the Empire turned into complete shit.

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>>384061518

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>not getting a cease fire so that you can keep a megadragon from destroying the world

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>>384059567
In my probably 30+ play throughs I only joined a faction once and it was stormcloaks

I only joined bc I was doing BIG NORD
MAN role play

>>384061815
>putting a new leader in will work wonders for the Empire
look at how well that turned out for America. Now we've got Trump and he's fucking up EVERYTHING

>cities exist
>5 residences per hold, better put a wall around this
>reachmen just camping with hag ravens and snowberries coming out their dickholes
>skyrim is for the nords!! *cough someone get these natives out of here*

Breton merchants and the forsworn are the real heroes of skyrim

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>>384059567
Surely you made your choice in the superior Skyrim Special Edition™?

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>>384061518

>>384061606
>The Empire didn't do any of the things you said they did, they only did so because they got cucked by knife ears because integral members of the empire fucked them over.
That's precisely my point. The Empire is so cucked by Elf infiltrators and inner corruption that it's basically useless. Even if a united front against elves is optimal, it's unattainable by virtue of the fact that the Empire is so politically rotten and compromised by Altmer. It is no vehicle for a second great war, it already lost the first one when it was infinitely stronger than it is now. The best shot is an alliance of independent states, it's not a foolproof shot, but it's pretty much the only shot there is.

>What do you think happens if Stormcloaks win? What's the plan? How are they going to fight off the Knife Ears? You know the Thalmor will come for them, and that they absolutely have 0 hope against them alone.
Alliance with Hammerfell
Possibly alliance with the remaining Empire if they aren't too butthurt about losing.
Turtle for a while to rebuild Skyrim and consolidate strength. Since Skyrim is surrounded by mountains on all sides the only way the Dominion could realistically invade is over the Sea of Ghosts, which would be only slightly less of a suicide mission than invading over the mountains given all the nearby terrain is either a) frozen mountains b) frozen wasteland or c) swampland. Given the Dominion is weak enough to lose to Hammerfell which is right beside them they are in absolutely no position to stage an immediate invasion of Skyrim - they would get destroyed if they tried it in the near future.

>The Empire are the best defence against humanities greatest threat-the elves-and Nords of all people should want to aid them.
The greatest threat to humanity isn't just Elven rule, it's the ban of Talos worship. And if the Empire is going to enforce that there's no point supporting them in the name of humanity.

>>384061997
Damn, I was expecting Bethesda to be better than that. They should have been more realistic and had the transition of power after the entire royal family was murdered be smooth, trouble-free and having no major impact on any political or societal conditions throughout the Empire like in real life.

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>>384062487
die

>>384062489
Not to mention that gods will literally stop existing if people stop believing in them, and Talos is the god who holds the spacetime continuum intact.
The end game of the Thalmor is to destabilize the universe to the point that it collapses and they get to be gods again. Supporting the Empire only furthers this goal.

None. I got a nice quest with the greybeard instead.

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>>384061769
The Empire were a shit during the Oblivion era as well. You just don't see them being a shit because Cyrodiil is Imperial HQ.

They pulled all their troops out of Morrowind which they're supposed to defend. Had it not been for House Redoran Morrowind would have been completely annihilated by Daedra and Argonians.

So much for the Empire actually defending their provinces.

>>384061895
>not making your decisions based on the geopolitical climate instead of "muh emotions ;^("
Filthy plebeian.

>>384061913
You know someone's an Oblivionbabby when they pick (((Legion))).

I sided with alt+f4 uninstall i you catch my dragon humor.

>>384060131
The Empire rules by neither authority or blood but tradition, they are a dying tree and the only question is which way they will fall

>>384062738
It was decaying even during Morrowind's time, Wulf flat-out says, "The Emperor is getting old. Don't know how much longer he'll hang on. So is the whole Empire, for that matter. Getting old, that is. The Emperor and the legions have held the Empire together for hundreds of years. It's been a good thing, by and large. But maybe it's time for a change. Time for something young and new. What? No idea. Because I'm old. Old dog doesn't get new ideas. But maybe young folks like you should try some new ideas. I don't know. Could be messy. But change is never pretty."
Wulf: "Wulf. That's me."
I'm of the opinion that Skyrim was actually a retelling of Tiber Septim's story. The parallels between the Last Dragonborn and him are ridiculous. Which is why i'm also of the opinion that he mantles Talos.

>>384062738
Remember Morrowind? The Dunmer brought their misfortune upon themselves. The Empire can't be expected to save them from themselves.

>>384062841
I pick the legion and then assassinate the emperor afterwards to fuck over stormcocks and the imperials both

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>>384062778
ultimately true

>>384063660
>soul of akatosh
>mantles lorkhan
>have soul promised to all the daedra lords
Is there any mythopoetic pies that the last dragonborn didn't put his dick in ?
At this point he's probably mantling the godhead.

>>384063838
I agree. The Dunmer got what they deserved and now they'd be wise to learn from it.

And you know what the first step in the Dunmer's downfall was? Forsaking their ancient gods, the reason the Dunmer brought down an apocalyptic even on themselves was because they abandoned the good Deadra for the Tribunal. Humanity should under no circumstances make the same mistake and abandon Talos. And things only started getting better when they stopped praying to Vivec to start praying to Azura.

This is how Nirn works, gods are literally the most important thing there is. If you abandon your gods for Earthly reasons you're going to get your shit fucked up like in Morrowind. If you stay true to your gods and call on them when necessary they will help you when you truly need it, like in Oblivion when Akatosh saved Nirn from Mehrunes Dagon.

Only if you abandon Talos it's only going to be even worse. Reality itself is going to be undone.

>>384059567
>Implying I'd pick the cousin fucking nords over the tactile empire which would unify the lands
Order and balance OP

>>384063838
To be fair, as shitty as the Dunmer were they got dealt some pretty rough cards. The Lord of the Memes reappears, steals the divinity of the tribunal, and starts spreading divine AIDS from Red Mountain. Vivec bounces and they have to go back to worshiping the Anticipations. They get a train run on them by daedra during the oblivion crisis. The asteroid their divine hermaphrodite was holding in place impacts, destroying a decent chuck of Vvardenfell. Then the Red Mountain erupts and destroys even more of it. Finally, once everything has gone to shit, the lizards invade.

>>384064405
>which would unify the lands
Since Martin Septim died the Empire has done literally nothing but lose territory.

Summerset Isles is gone
Valenwood is gone
Elsweyr is gone
Black Marsh is gone
Hammerfell is gone
Skyrim is half-gone
Morrowind is only part of the empire in name only at this point.

It's a joke to even call it the Empire of Tamriel anymore. It's the United Kingdom of Cyrodiil and High Rock.

>>384064257
Whats hilarious is how the Champion of Cyrodiil and Dragonborn wiggle their way out of daedric pacts. The first becomes an actual God of Meme-Spouting so obnoxious none of the daedra even want to deal with him. The second becomes the the original Trickster God.

>Is there any mythopoetic pies that the last dragonborn didn't put his dick in ?
I'd say Magnus, but even the god of telling everyone to fuck and running out of the universe had LDB stick his staff into one of his eyes.

>At this point he's probably mantling the godhead.
Inverse Amaranth like that is some Dagoth-Ur shit.

>>384065480
It even adds insult to injury that LDB's soul was never even his own to begin with, it belonged to Akatosh.

Every Daedric lord that made a deal with LDB got absolutely conned.

>>384062778
An empire so cucked by the thalmor that they just execute innocent citizens of the empire even if they know theyre not guilty because their dagger eared overlords are watching is a better geopolitical climate? Damn youre dumb lol!

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>>384064670
And yet they're still a playable race. Genocide and other such things aren't uncommon in Tamrielic history.

>>384066156
There should be an option to side with the Falmer and retake Skyrim as the Snowgoblin king.

small brain
the empire banned talos worship and tried to kill the main character they're the good guys

big brain
the thalmor want the stormcloaks to win so they can divide tamriel against itself and take over the area, and besides that most of the rebellion seems to be a thinly-veiled attempt by ulfric at a power grab, it's best to do what you can to keep the status quo until the dragon situation blows over

big brain with electricity
at the end of the day both sides have massive flaws but the civil war is already in full swing and there's nothing that one side winning or losing will do to deescalate tensions in time for the nords and the imperials to work together. which side is the "right" one is largely subjective and at the end of the day will likely be moot as a larger chain of events is likely already in play

giant brain with lotuses and nervous cells and etc
the civil war questline is shit

>>384067178
biggest brain
being a cock milk slave to loli and bara riften citizens

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Why does everyone care about making their decisions based on what is "right"? You are canonically one of the most powerful beings alive at the time and you can do whatever the hell you want, no one is going to stop you.
>I-I'm fighting for the future of T-tamriel
What a pleb perspective. The Dragonborn is basically a purpose built machine made to grow stronger and obtain greater power, competing just like a Dragon, not some hero in green trousers ready to rescue a princess.

>>384067547
>The Dragonborn is basically a purpose built machine made to grow stronger and obtain greater power, competing just like a Dragon, not some hero in green trousers ready to rescue a princess.
Only he's not. He's a divinely sent agent of destiny who's supposed to guide Tamriel's history in the "right" direction. He's not just supposed to be a Tolkien-dragon in human form.

But of course "right" is open to interpretation here.

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>>384062738
>>384062738

>>384067178
quadraplegic brain in a wheelchair with glasses
modded for more civil war patrols and futa replacer

>>384068007
He has a dragon soul and Dragons are driven to dominate. Why do you think the both Second and Third Empires were founded by Dragonborns?

I wanted to go with the stormcloaks at first, but this piece of shit soldier told me to keep my hands in my pockets because I was a kahjiit, so I put my hands in my pocket and destroyed his faction

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>>384068639

>>384068469
>He has a dragon soul and Dragons are driven to dominate.
This isn't Lord of The Rings. As much as Tamrielic dragons are ambition-driven so are Tamrielic men and elves, it's not like the Ayleids didn't use slavery and domination just as liberally as the dragons did.

>Why do you think the both Second and Third Empires were founded by Dragonborns?
Because the gods sent them to do it and helped them along their way.

>>384069474
>This isn't Lord of The Rings. As much as Tamrielic dragons are ambition-driven so are Tamrielic men and elves, it's not like the Ayleids didn't use slavery and domination just as liberally as the dragons did.
Never said it was exclusively a dragonic trait, but its still a trait.
>"Once, the dragons sought to eliminate or enslave all mortal races. If given the chance, they would surely do so again..."
>Because the gods sent them to do it and helped them along their way.
yes, the Dragon-God

>>384059567
>Thalmor autistic screeching
you mean rubbing their hands together for being their greatest ally, dumb goyim. In fact, they flat out call Ulfric their greatest ally

>>384070775
>Never said it was exclusively a dragonic trait, but its still a trait.
Precisely my point, the Dragonborn is not obligated to be powerhungry on the count of being Dragonborn when dragons aren't shown to be any more power-hungry than men or mer. Which he's more likely than not one for certain. They can decide to act in whatever way they like for whatever reasoning compels them like any individual.

>yes, the Dragon-God
Akatosh isn't literally a dragon. He just appears that way sometimes.

Dragons are his domain though, but so is a bunch of other stuff - most notably time.

>>384072079
They also flat out say they don't want the Stormcloaks to win.

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>>384059567
Stormcloaks don't care if you drink the blood of your enemies. Also they didn't try to kill you first chance they got.

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>>384060131

Fucking this. Ulfric was legit retarded and being used like the tool he was.

Also all these arguments of

>w..well you're gonna get killed by the Empire. They're bad.

The last two iterations of this game have being either being a prisoner to exiled, a prisoner to probably be killed later on, or in Skyrim a prisoner to be killed. It's a genuine trope at this point in the Elder Scrolls. It almost pisses me off that people actually wanted to side with Ulfric and the Stormcloaks.

You couldn't be beaten over the head more with the writing but people seem to like the crazy xenophobic bastard and his kind while having multiple quests show he was nearly retarded and have many different Nords in the land disagree with him.

I firmly believe these people never played another Elder Scrolls and basically ran through Skyrim as their very first RPG. They never read a letter nor a book in the game. They just killed everything and did quests at a blind rate and just listened to what was going on.

Like a normal night of Battlefield or Call of Duty.

Imperials because even their bland culture tops the Nords. I'd rather have the people responsible for the White Gold Tower than dumb Barbarians living in mudhuts for ""cities"". But in all honesty, Argonians or Dunmer should just go for conquest, the entire relm would be better under them

>>384062738

Of course they pulled their troops.

You know, that thing you just mentioned of fucking Mehrunes Dagon trying to rape humanity again and all that. Let's just forget that little nugget there.

>>384072854
You're forgetting the /pol/tards that think being a retarded xenophobic bastard is a good thing.

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>>384073312

Don't do this. Just don't do it. Don't pull /pol/ into this. We don't need that. Don't bait.

>>384065480
i thought the LDB went back to hang out in Hermaeus Mora's library and read shit forever

>>384073306
>Of course they pulled their troops.
Because protecting Cyrodiil is more important to the empire than protecting their provinces?

I'm not surprised. But this is all the more reason why the provinces shouldn't sacrifice themselves to protect Cyrodiil when Cyrodiil already proved they wouldn't do the same in return.

>You know, that thing you just mentioned of fucking Mehrunes Dagon trying to rape humanity again and all that. Let's just forget that little nugget there.
I see, so it's vital to stop the Deadra invading through Cyrodiil but lets forget for a second that they were also invading through Morrowind. It's not like Dunmer matter just as much as Imperials do.

>>384073263
> I'd rather have the people responsible for the White Gold Tower
Ayleids?

They're extinct, bro.

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>>384073263
>Dunmer
>Conquering anything

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

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>>384067547

True. It really doesn't matter.

I think ultimately the Dragonborn of Skyrim will become the defacto next Emperor and a time skip will happen before the next Elder Scrolls.

Primarily I'd love Summerset Isle but I'd fucking adore something about Akavir. I was playing Oblivion for the first time in years just recently and read up about Emperor Reman's expedition there. One fucking like 40 page book and it was just fucking great. All in game. I swear. Even all these years later and I still love it all so much.

>>384074126
In the entirety of Argonian history they've only managed to win against Morrowind when they

1. Got invaded by Oblivion
2. Got hit by an asteroid
3. Experienced a volcanic eruption
4. Just had an epidemic of zombie-AIDS

All in the space of a couple of years. And even then they still weren't able to make it very far before being repulsed by House Redoran.

>>384073832

Well Cyrodiil is basically like the Roman empire. Spread to far too quick. Especially in Morrowind which was barely contained only by the Neravarine and Vivec and that was some time back by the time Oblivion happens.

Then the Emperor right before you and nobody is really leading it. I'd have contained everything at home by then too. Fucking terrifying having demon gates at every fucking village. Sometimes 3 or 4 just around the place.

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>>384072187
>Precisely my point, the Dragonborn is not obligated to be powerhungry on the count of being Dragonborn when dragons aren't shown to be any more power-hungry than men or mer.
But they are shown to be ubiquitously power-hungry dominators. Every single one does what they do for power. Fuck man, their arguments are literally fights and they consider power to be truth.

>Akatosh isn't literally a dragon. He just appears that way sometimes.
The only other portrayal is as a a man, and that's because he got mixed with Lorkhan in the First Era.

>Dragons are his domain though, but so is a bunch of other stuff - most notably time.
Which is portrayed as a dragon eating its own tail, Alduin consuming the world and bringing about the End of Time.

>>384074816
> I'd have contained everything at home by then too.
This is my point. It's supposed to be the empire of Tamriel, not the empire of Cyrodiil and colonies. The entire continent should be "home". When it comes down to it the late-stage empire has absolutely no loyalty to the provinces, and it's stupid of them to expect their loyalty in return for nothing.

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>yfw Talos/Tiber Septim himself comes to you in Morrowind right before the final battle at Red Mountain

They really need to recapture this moment. Such a wonky shitty looking game but fuck if it didn't get me.

>>384061769
Kaz will never update this fucking thing because he's a gigantic cocksucker. and even if he did I'm not sure it's even worth it at this point

>>384059567
The Stormcloaks are literal retards who do not comprehend what a "plan" is.

>>384075179
It's even better when you mod it so that he literally comes in you.

>no option to stay out of it
>or destroy both armies, since you're a legendary warrior
>or create peace
This game really is short-sighted.

>>384075159
>But they are shown to be ubiquitously power-hungry dominators.
Not necessarily, they're also shown to be very submissive to whichever dragon can prove themselves to be the biggest and strongest - hence why all but one of them are loyal to Alduin.

Which is basically what humans and elves do as well. Until Tiber Septim came along and became the biggest, strongest mortal (of course that bit changed later) Tamriel was a total warzone with everyone and anyone vying for power.

>The only other portrayal is as a a man, and that's because he got mixed with Lorkhan in the First Era.
And as an Eagle-man (Auri-El), and as a cat with wings (Alkosh).

>Which is portrayed as a dragon eating its own tail, Alduin consuming the world and bringing about the End of Time.
That's my point, the dragon side of things is symbolism for time rather than the reverse. Hell, dragons themselves are basically symbols for immortality brought to life.

>>384073263
Argonians dgaf about the world. The Hist is more interested in a longer game.

>>384075164

Yes but this is during the Oblivion Crisis. Having your legions spread abroad is ludicrous. Your leader dead. No point.

Having that been said everyone just dogpiled the Empire. Especially the fucking elves. Which is where Skyrim came in where there was an imposter in place.

I hope the next one is basically a time skip where you don't even have to give a fuck and the Dragonborn is reuniting the Empire. Fuck, I even hope they have a Imperial Legion questline like they did in Morrowind.

>>384075297
Yet strangely the entire empire is still struggling to fight them.

Who's the retard now?

>>384075602
> Having your legions spread abroad is ludicrous.
They're not Cyrodiil's legions, they're supposed to be Tamriel's legions. Being anywhere in Tamriel is not "abroad", that's precisely where they're supposed to stay and protect.

>Having that been said everyone just dogpiled the Empire. Especially the fucking elves.
And the Argonians dogpiled Morrowind - and again the Empire did nothing about it.

>>384060131
>"A Stormcloak victory is also to be avoided, however, so even indirect aid to the Stormcloaks must be carefully managed."

Imperialfags need to fuck off with their headcanon

>>384074783
And now, 200 years later, your lands are still ours and your people (the few that survived, anyway) still live in slums shoveling ash, or freezing to death on Solthseim. And you deserve all of it.

Also Argonians didn't want to conquer all of Morrowind, they just wanted to take back lands they lost during the Arnesian Uprising and to raze Mournhold in revenge for slavery (all of which they accomplished easily)

>>384075695
>Does not comprehend what a plan is
The Empire ISN'T fighting the stormcloaks. it's putting up token resistance that the Aldmeri demand so that the Aldmeri don't come in and murder the fuck out of them. The last thing the Empire wants is to loose capable fighters unnecessarily.
The entire point of the Empire's maneuver was to endure shit, smile and nod at the elves, then abuse the reproductive rates of humans a decade or three later, then zerg rush the Aldmeri. By accepting a few shit conditions, they could make the Aldmeri stop pissing down everyone's back long enough to do this.
The Stormcloaks are literally too retarded to understand this, and tantrum around, screeching for attention, making the Aldmeri start noticing.

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>>384075864

The Elder Council did what they could as the Champion of Cyrodiil went around and helped Martin.

Let's forget all the shit he did on the side and then became the new Sheogorath, God of Chaos. Come on now. I'm not writing lore here but you're not giving Cyrodiil enough credit here.

You've got the most powerful man/woman in the land being an insane Daedric God by end game. Who knows what he's introduced?

>>384063660
Daggerfall is all about how the Empire is decaying. The politics of the Illiac Bay are all about how far the Empire has fallen and how Hammerfell and High Rock increasingly don't take them seriously.

The Empire never recovered from the shitty rule of Jagar Tharn in Arena. Each game finds the Empire in a worse and worse state. Over 5 games we've seen the Empire decline more and more. I'll be amazed if in the next game the Empire will even exist. The civil war in Skyrim has to be resolved somehow. My guess is Skyrim falls to the Dominion either way.

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>>384076651
>The Aldmeri invaded Cyrodil because a large payment of gold for services was replaced with several hundred wedges of cheese, and a handwritten love letter to paintbrushes

>>384063510
What is blood but the most tired tradition

>>384076567
Is there any argument for the Legion side that isn't fanfiction.

Yeah, they don't actually want to fight the Stormcloaks. Except for the fact that the game begins with them trying to execute Ulfric and a bunch of Stormcloaks. And except for the fact the first time you see General Tullius since the intro he's considering just marching into Whiterun and forcing the Jarl to formally side with the empire. And except for the fact that you literally can help the Empire fight the stormcloaks.

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>>384076923

Just how deep does it go? We've got to get Alexium Jonesius on this.

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>>384059567
So are the Thalmor just the Jews of Tamriel?

>>384072854
Being a xenophobic bastard is the greatest virtue one could ever have you stupid traitor, but in this particular scenario, stopping the mers from literally ending the world takes precedence over racial purity.

>>384077589
(You)

So why doesnt anyone use lycanthrops in their armies, hircine doesnr seem to be too bad a guy, just cares about hunters glory.

>>384077587

No, they're closer to nazis than anything else.

>>384063019
I don't get it

>>384077587
More like the Nazis of Tamriel.

Either the Orcs or the Dunmer are the Jews of Tamriel.

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>>384077618
I can't wait to make you choke on your blood. 2060

>>384077675
That's Daedra worship.

t. Stendarr frogs.

>>384062489
Hammerfell only continues to exist because they're fighting defensively. They can't help anyone else. And the Empire and the Nords are going to have nothing but bad blood and hatred for each other, they're not working together if the Stormcloaks split. That's not how people work. They would have to know what the Thalmor's ultimate plan is, and nobody does.

>>384077679
>>384077780
But every time someone talks about the Aldmeri Dominion in Skyrim it's similar sounding to Jewish conspiracy theorists.

>>384062054
Why do people think it's acceptable to post like they're on 4chan when they're on other websites? What did that memer think was going to happen?

>>384059567

The Nords must be brought to heel.
They shall rest under the boot of the Empire, as all shall eventually.

>>384077840
k

>>384076969
Argonians are literally jumped up on tree steroids and as far as the hist is concerned, the Oblivion Crisis is still happening. Argonians fucked up the Daedra so hard that Dagon's lieutenants had to close the Oblivion Gates themselves, or risk being overrun.

Just let that sink in. The Daedric invasion of Tamriel, that destroyed and weakened every other province. And the Argonians not only fucked them up so badly, but emerged stronger. Not just as a people, previously separate tribes now united by fighting as one against the Daedric threat, but literally stronger biologically. It's why they looks so much more like reptiles in Skyrim, than the weird lizard-amphibian hybrids from Morrowind and Oblivion. The hist called all Argonians back to Black Marsh, and had them ingest a special sap, which changed them. It made them stronger, faster and more ferocious.

Day of the Root soon, my Dunmer friend. Nirn will once again be the realm of the Hist

>>384077925

It's best not to listen to them as they probably don't have a clue about the Thalmor. They aren't concerned about making shekels rather than outright DESTROYING mankind because of their superiority complex. It also extends into their society where Eugenics is practiced among the elves. Any elven child that doesn't fit their criteria is killed.

>>384078237
>It's why they looks so much more like reptiles in Skyrim, than the weird lizard-amphibian hybrids from Morrowind and Oblivion
What? No. They were much less humanoid in Morrowind, they had retrograde legs and claws and shit. Oblivion and Skyrim turned them into scalies.

>>384059567
>impoverished
kek, typical fucking illiterate stormcucks

>>384068285
Fucking beautiful

>>384073263
>I'd rather have the shitty former slaves used for gruesome art projects by the ones who actually built White Gold Tower then the badass barbarians who helped rescue them.

If not for the Nords the Imperials would still be having their children's organs harvested in front of them by the Ayleids. Alessia would have ended up a gurofags idea of what you're supposed to do with a woman and Pelinal would have gotten himself killed by mindlessly charging the entire Ayleid capital by himself (something he did in canon) or got lost in Elswyer killimg Khajiit on the remote suspicion they might be elves (which he also did in canon).

>>384077891
The legion obviously doesn't care about religion since they outlawed talos worship

>>384066107
The stormcloaks never killed innocents.

>>384060131
fpbp

>>384078450
They also had fins and shit, because they were amphibian-lizard hybrids. Now they're covered in horns and spikes because the hist turned them into dragons.

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>>384074783
FUCK OFF RACIST LANDSTRIDER WE WUZ XANMEER N SHIET

The legion would be better off if they stopped listening to stendarr cucks and started getting help from some of the more innocuous deadra.

>>384077907
Only they can, Hammerfell already won the war. Making alliances with other states in order to strengthen themselves if the Dominion try anything funny is the next logical step now that that's over with.

It's not charity, it's an alliance. If they have a friendly foreign kingdom that's the enemy of their enemy it would be stupid not to ally with them.

>nd the Empire and the Nords are going to have nothing but bad blood and hatred for each other, they're not working together if the Stormcloaks split. That's not how people work
Yeah, that's why Britain and America absolutely hate each other and would never even consider an alliance.

They both don't really hate each other, virtually every Nord in the rebellion once fought for the Empire and only turned against it because they felt there was no other choice. Were one side to make a decisive victory it would absolutely be logical and mutually beneficial to realize that the Dominion are the real enemy and there's nothing to be gained from further fighting.

>They would have to know what the Thalmor's ultimate plan is, and nobody does.
As outside observers the players do (or at least can if they know their lore).
If you mean in game then it's implied that the Psijic Order do.

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>>384078513

>>384078237
Correction - the Argonians didn't defeat the Daedra. The Hist did. They just used the Argonians as a weapon to do it for them while they did all the co-ordination and strategy behind it.

That is the greatest strength of the Hist, not that they can juice up the Argonians on magic steroids but that they can mind control them into one giant hivemind. The Hist are like tree-internet.

> but literally stronger biologically. It's why they looks so much more like reptiles in Skyrim, than the weird lizard-amphibian hybrids from Morrowind and Oblivion. The hist called all Argonians back to Black Marsh, and had them ingest a special sap, which changed them. It made them stronger, faster and more ferocious.
Only here's the thing, it's not the first time the Hist have done that. They do that whenever the Hist are in immediate danger and the effects are not permanent, I'm not even sure if they last for an entire lifetime but they certainly aren't hereditary.

If the fact that Argonians look different in Skyrim is your proof, then my counter-argument is that in Skyrim Argonians are weaker than Dunmer in combat skills as the Dunmer are better at one-handed and at destruction whilst the Argonians are only good at sneaking. If the reason they looked different was because of hist-roids then they would have like 200 HP and 50 in every combat stat.

>>384078237
youre wrong about a bunch of shit. the Hist evolved argonians but only for the Crisis. argonians having daedric gear is the only thing that really came out of the oblivion crisis for them

>>384078538
>or got lost in Elswyer killimg Khajiit on the remote suspicion they might be elves

he was right

>>384080354
in addition they raided morrowind for dark elf jew gold

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>>384062778
I play my video game how ever the fuck I want, thank you

Want to contribute but literally have no knowledge of the story lines in any games, all cutscenes will be skipped and i'm not reading faggy books that are found either.

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pls someone post the screenshot or pasta of the deconstruction of the Helgen situation and General Tullius was doing what he could to end the war by seizing a perfect opportunity but alkosh and the dragonborn fucked it all up
>>384078901
>implying it ever gets sunny in shadowfen
ESO is a great game.

>>384080764
You'll fit right in with the legionfags.

The Thalmor hunt down dissidents and kill them.
They have conducted purges of disloyal Bosmer.
The embassy shows the grunts are not fond of the Justiciars.
Living in Summerset is akin to living in North Korea with fear of offending the Thalmor.
The Thalmor worship Daedra.
They have tricked the Khajit into following them.

Does anyone actually believe the AD as it is now will survive until the next game?
Both the Empire and AD will collapse and chaos will once again rule just as Azura planned.

>>384077840
It's like Detroit is the only American city these people know, and even in that case the black population was doing fine until they got all of their jobs outsourced to china.

>>384081140
>Living in Summerset is akin to living in North Korea with fear of offending the Thalmor.
To be fair the Summerset Isles have been like that pretty much since they were first settled by Mer.

It's no coincidence that Tamriel is so full of elves who decided "fuck these guys, I'm getting out of here" that they've evolved into numerous distinct races.

>>384061518
I know this is bait, but I love this meme BECAUSE I'm autistic. As someone who was forced into many "groups" for autistic people, I have dealt with more than enough autistic screaming. I think I've earned my right to make fun of it (not that you have to earn that right. I'm just saying that if you had to earn it, I would have earned it)

>>384079161
>Yeah, that's why Britain and America absolutely hate each other
You say this hundreds of years after the fact.

>They don't hate each other
They will if the rebellion succeeds. One side is the oppressors who have been thrown off, the other is the rebellious bastards who destroyed the empire and doomed human independence.

>>384075545
>Not necessarily, they're also shown to be very submissive to whichever dragon can prove themselves to be the biggest and strongest - hence why all but one of them are loyal to Alduin.
So dragons aren't dominators because they got dominated by stronger dragons?

> Until Tiber Septim came along and became the biggest, strongest mortal (of course that bit changed later) Tamriel was a total warzone with everyone and anyone vying for power.
And who came out on top? A person with the soul of a dragon.
>Alkosh
From Varieties of Faith in the Empire,
>He is depicted as a fearsome dragon, a creature the Khajiit say 'is just a real big cat'.

>Auri-El
No longer related to Akatosh, sorry.

>That's my point, the dragon side of things is symbolism for time rather than the reverse.
No, its that they're the same concept. The dragon is time. It begins and ends with the Dragon. Time is the dragon. There's a reason Dragon Breaks are called what they're called.

Why did the Falmer move in with the Dwemer rather than with the neighbouring Chimer or the Ayleids?

I mean yeah the Chimer and the Ayleids were dicks, but they weren't as bad as the Dwemer.

>>384080880
Because even the blind can see they're right.

>>384081836
>You say this hundreds of years after the fact.
I realize that, but you ought to realize that friendly relations between Britain and America are not new. They've been putting the bullshit aside whenever necessary for most of the USA's existence.

Though there are better examples. Like how the USA made friends with Japan pretty much immediately after Japan surrendered during WW2.

> One side is the oppressors who have been thrown off, the other is the rebellious bastards who destroyed the empire and doomed human independence.
Only the Stormcloaks don't really consider the Empire to be oppressors, they identify the elves as being oppressors and accuse the Empire of being pawns for them. And even General Tullius would not totally disagree with that analysis given his feelings about the White Gold Concordat.

>the other is the rebellious bastards who destroyed the empire and doomed human independence.
Skyrim would not be the first province to secede and it probably wouldn't be the last. The Empire doesn't hate Hammerfell, they don't hate Black Marsh, why would Skyrim be any different?

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>>384080539

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>>384081191
n-no delet this

>>384081191
Just like St. Louis, they'd finally recover from the hurricane if the government would just help them.

>>384059567
Considering how Anti-Nord the Stormcloaks are, I can never justify siding with the unless I' playing as a Nord.

>>384083521
?

>>384082418
The US and Japan's relationship is founded entirely on the US rebuilding Japan and taking care of their defense. Tell me, which of Cyrodiil and Skyrim could do that?

>Accuse the Empire of being pawns
Which ends up being the same, especially since they're the ones restricting the Talos dicksucking.

>They don't hate Hammerfell
Because they purposefully let Hammerfell keep fighting to fuck over the Thalmor and clandestinely support them. That wasn't a rebellion, that was engineered.

>Black Marsh
Nobody LIKES Black Marsh. It's just too much of a nightmare to do anything with. Meanwhile, Skyrim is where Tiber Septim himself was born and its union with Cyrodiil is literally what created the Empire.

>>384062698
>Not to mention that gods will literally stop existing if people stop believing in them

This applies to all of them BUT Talos. Because of the nature of his ascension (CHIM memes and all that), he plays by different rules.

>>384083616
Yeah my bad, I meant to say Anti-everyone but Nords, but
>sleep deprivation

>>384083617
>Skyrim is where Tiber Septim himself was born
You mean High Rock, Hjalti was a Breton.

>>384081191
>the black population was doing fine until they got all of their jobs outsourced to china

In what fairy tale version of American history has the black population of any major American city ever been doing just fine? Unless your standards for "just fine" are piss poor.

Also, white people worked those jobs too, yet somehow they managed to not devolve into destructive niggerdom. Why?

>>384077840
>Diversity destroyed Detroit

Yeah, clearly economic disaster caused by outsourcing had nothing to do with it.

This also doesn't explain why cities far more diverse than Detroit are still prosperous.

>>384072854
It';s also worth mentioning if you kill Ulfric and then talk to his spirit in Sovngarde, he admits the whle thing was a mistake.

Really gets those gears turning.

>>384059567

I was so unhappy with the faction system in Skyrim that I spent months building a mod and writing a questline that would lead you to slaughtering everyone in a position of power in the entire country, permanently removing imperial, stormcloak, and aldmeri presence.

>>384081867
>because they got dominated by stronger dragons?
I'm saying dragons are dominators, they just aren't any more dominator-y than men or elves given that they're willing to put their ambition to the side and follow orders whenever a stronger dragon shows up. Just like men and elves do whenever a big strong warlord like Tiber Septim or Indoril Nerevar shows up.

> A person with the soul of a dragon.
That he did. I'm not going to deny that, but I'm telling you what's more significant is the fact that he was blessed by the gods than that he had a dragons soul. If he just had the soul and didn't have gods pulling strings for him here and there then there would be no empire.

> a creature the Khajiit say 'is just a real big cat'.
When they say "Is just a real big cat" they're not joking, Alkosh is chiefly characterized by the Khajiit as a cat. This might be because of a mix up in what a dragon actually is by virtue of the fact that prior to Skyrim no Khajiit probably ever even saw a dragon in the flesh. Consider The Tale of Dro'Zira where characterisations of him as a dragon are absent, he's referred to as a cat.

>No longer related to Akatosh, sorry.
But he is though. He's literally the same god in a different manifestation. Also from Varieties of Faith in the Empire
>Auri-El (King of the Aldmer): The Elven Akatosh is Auri-El.
And from The Alduin/Akatosh Dichotomy
>The Aldmer refer to Akatosh as Auri-El. The Nords call him Alduin. These names come up repeatedly in certain ancient texts, and in each one, it is clear that the deity in question is none other than he whom we call Akatosh.

>There's a reason Dragon Breaks are called what they're called.
But here's the thing though, it's still symbolism. A dragon did not literally break, the "dragon" is symbolic for time due to their mutual and related connection to Akatosh. And like I said dragons themselves are manifested symbols of immortality, it's symbolism all the way down.

>>384084532
>clearly economic disaster caused by outsourcing had nothing to do with it
>detroit riots in 1967
>big 3 automakers don't start leaving until the 70s
>somehow the dragon broke and and Detroit became a large-scale example of retro-causality
Also, who voted for the policies that made manufacturing so noncompetitive all the industry withdrew?

>>384083617
>Tell me, which of Cyrodiil and Skyrim could do that?
You're dodging my point to take pot-shots at the analogies instead. And the point is that this is precisely how people work, whenever it is more mutually-beneficial to co-operate than it is to be butthurt no matter how grisly the preceding war was people are going to do it because they like it when things go their way more than they like spiting their historical enemies.

> they're the ones restricting the Talos dicksucking.
Only it doesn't. They don't hate the empire because the empire is oppressing them, they hate the empire because the empire is too weak to stop the Domnion from oppressing them.

And it isn't the empire restricting Talos worship, the Dominion does that. The Empire just allows them the free reign to do so.

>That wasn't a rebellion, that was engineered.
Lets ignore the fact that this is another instance of legionfag headcanon for a second.
Okay, so if they're willing to support Hammerfell against the Dominion why would they not want to do the same for Skyrim or why would Skyrim not want to do the same for the Empire? They all know who the real enemy is, it would be stupid of them not to co-operate in this respect when the Empire has already proven they're willing to do it.

>b-but that wasn't a rebellion
From the Imperial perspective it may as well have been. They lost a province either way. And if they're willing to lose a province quickly if it means a net-advantage versus the Dominion we return to the fact that this would be much the case in Skyrim.

>Meanwhile, Skyrim is where Tiber Septim himself was born and its union with Cyrodiil is literally what created the Empire.
I never said they like the Black Marsh, I said they don't hate the Black Marsh. Which they don't, it's basically irrelevant to their current geopolitical problems and goals.

And the Empire has already proven they don't have much love for Tiber Septim.

>>384084067
Tiber Septim may have been born in High Rock, and he may have been named Hjalti Early-Beard.

But he sure as shit was not a Breton, at best he was a Nord or 2nd gen Atmoran that happened to be born in High-Rock. Seriously, what the fuck kind of Breton is named "Hjalti Early-Beard". He may as well be named Nordvar Stormnord

>>384084067
Dear, you need to learn about a little concept called "Enatiiomorph."

>>384084670
So does Legate Rikke if you do the opposite.

>>384084153
>Also, white people worked those jobs too, yet somehow they managed to not devolve into destructive niggerdom. Why?
Because whites weren't just coming off the heels of a century of segregation and had been able to diversify into numerous other industries by that point.

>>384085537
>Also, who voted for the policies that made manufacturing so noncompetitive all the industry withdrew?

Upper middle class whites.

Also if you're implying the riots drove the big three to leave you're dead wrong. If that's how it worked, Miami, Los Angeles, Boston, New York, and Chicago would all be exactly like Detroit right now.

>>384086069
Your point is mistaken because you're ignoring the extenuating circumstances in those events, which are entirely by there's little bad blood now.

>Legionfag
Ah, you're biased. So I was wasting my time.

>>384085537
>Also, who voted for the policies that made manufacturing so noncompetitive all the industry withdrew?
Yeah, bro. They should have voted for 19th century tier sweatshop policies so they could compete with Chinese that live on a dollar a day. That sure would have elevated their living standards.

>>384086458
>Because whites weren't just coming off the heels of a century of segregation

Neither were blacks. We're talking about Detroit, not Montgomery.

>>384059567

>empire sells out nord citizens who worship Talos to the Thalmor and shoves them in gulags


Please , empirecucks tell me how the empire will protect them again?

The empire literally lets foreign police make arrests and set up prisons in their land

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>>384085170
>I'm saying dragons are dominators, they just aren't any more dominator-y than men or elves
>"The Blades are wise not to trust me. Onikaan ni ov. I would not trust another dovah.
> "Dov wahlaan fah rel. We were made to dominate. The will to power is in our blood. You feel it in yourself, do you not? I can be trusted. I know this. But they do not. Onikaan ni ov dovah. It is always wise to mistrust a dovah. I have overcome my nature only through meditation and long study of the Way of the Voice. No day goes by where I am not tempted to return to my inborn nature.
I'm sure you understand the nature of dragons far better than Paarthurnax.

>I'm telling you what's more significant is the fact that he was blessed by the gods than that he had a dragons soul.
What do you think being Dragonborn is other than a blessing from Akatosh? He literally has the soul of a dragon, the beings made to dominate.

>But he is though. He's literally the same god in a different manifestation.
The Marukhati selective separated Auri-el from Akatosh and replaced him with lorkhan. The only depictions of Auri-el is as a mer, whereas Akatosh is a dual man/dragon. pic related.

>When they say "Is just a real big cat" they're not joking,
Except they explicitly state, "He is depicted as a fearsome dragon, a creature the Khajiit say 'is just a real big cat'." The meaning being that they interpret Dragons as a form of cat, not that they literally look like one.

>But here's the thing though, it's still symbolism.
Its both. Symbolizing something is actually being something in the TES universe. (mantling and the thu'um, where the word for "force" is actually force itself) Its called a Dragon Break because time is a Dragon (akatosh) and it literally broke.

>>384086517
>Your point is mistaken because you're ignoring the extenuating circumstances in those events, which are entirely by there's little bad blood now.
As I said in that post it's an analogy, I don't expect the circumstances to be 1:1. But what I am saying is that when it's in people's interests to co-operate, they will co-operate, regardless of how much bad blood there is in the past.

If being buddies with the USA means rebuilding the economy then why not be buddies with the USA? If being buddies with Ulfric's Skyrim means not getting destroyed by the Dominion then why not?

>Ah, you're biased. So I was wasting my time.
Of course I'm biased. If I wasn't of the opinion that Ulfric is right and the Empire are wrong I would not be having this discussion.

But I'm biased for a reason, that being from what I've seen it would seem to be that the Stormcloaks are the better option.

>>384086656
Didn't you know? If you fight the Thalmor, they win.

>>384075490
>No option to stay out of it

There is you just have to not join either faction and play the game normally, it's not that hard.

>>384086830
>But I'm biased for a reason, that being from what I've seen it would seem to be that the Stormcloaks are the better option.

Isn't that kind of a moot point regardless when the Dragonborn can just pick a side and kinda...win the fight for that side, making this whole geo-political nonsense a non-issue via divine intervention and FUCK YOU I'M A DRAGON?

>>384086374
That would apply if I said the god Talos was from High Rock, I didn't. I stated Hjalti was, And Hjalti was the man who became General Talos Stormcrown, and later Tiber Septim. THe rest of Talos was Ysmir Wulfharth, an Atmoran, and Zurin Arctus/The underking, an imperial. Besides, if we want to bring in esoteric kirkbrideism, Kyn flat-out states Tiber Septim was a manmer and therefore most probably a Breton.

>>384086502
>Upper middle class whites.
Yes, the well-known upper-middle class white population in urban detroit.
>Also if you're implying the riots drove the big three to leave you're dead wrong.
I didn't, the racial tensions and belligerence of the black population did, aka "white flight."

>Miami, Los Angeles, Boston, and New York
None of those had the same percentages. Miami was 17% black in 1970, Detroit was 44%.
>Chicago
Pretty much is senpai.
Harrisburg PA, New Orleans, and Balimore are other good examples.

>>384086541
>Yeah, bro. They should have voted for 19th century tier sweatshop policies so they could compete with Chinese that live on a dollar a day.
You're an absolute retard if you compare auto factories from the second third of the 20th century to a 19th century tier sweatshop .

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>>384059567

can lorefags please fucking explain to me

Isnt it prophesied that the Empire will end with the return of the Dragons?

>>384086685
This is gonna take two posts.

>I'm sure you understand the nature of dragons far better than Paarthurnax.
Here's the thing, Paarthurnax is right and what he's saying isn't inconsistent with what I'm saying. Everything he just said about dragons is true, but it would also be true of men and elves. They also will to dominate, they're also untrustworthy fucks out for power, they're also massively tempted by other desires.

The Greybeards as humans experience the same struggle in this regard that Paarthurnax does as a dragon. They must come to reject their wordly impulses and devotedly study the way of the voice - and humans don't have an easy time at this. Ulfric wasn't able to do it, he couldn't resist his will to power and his (then) pride for the empire and so abandoned the way of the voice to fight for the Legion. And later totally forsook it and used his Thuum to kill Torygg.

>What do you think being Dragonborn is other than a blessing from Akatosh?
Nothing, in this regard I would agree with you. I'm just saying that the "blessing from Akatosh" aspect is more significant than the "soul" aspect. Of course you might say they're the same thing, but it's a fine difference that ignores the way in which Akatosh would aid Dragonborns like LDB and like Alessia where he would not for Dragonborns like Miraak for instance. Merely having the soul is not enough, what is important is the blessing one caries with that soul.

>The Marukhati selective separated Auri-el from Akatosh and replaced him with lorkhan.
Only here's the thing - the Imperial Pantheon is not the "correct" pantheon. There are many pantheons and none is more valid than another as long as its believers survive. Of course men don't believe in Auri-El, however the Altmer and Bosmer (as well as the wopping 1 Falmer left standing) continue to worship Auri-El as their pantheons analogue to Akatosh.

>>384086685
>>384088695
>The only depictions of Auri-el is as a mer, whereas Akatosh is a dual man/dragon. pic related.
That's my original point. They're the same being but the depictions are markedly different because they've manifested in different ways to men and to elves. And in this case it's an instance of Akatosh manifesting as sometimes besides a dragon.

>they interpret Dragons as a form of cat, not that they literally look like one.
That they do, but read my post again
>. This might be because of a mix up in what a dragon actually is by virtue of the fact that prior to Skyrim no Khajiit probably ever even saw a dragon in the flesh
They don't know what the fuck a dragon looks like besides maybe the crude depiction on the imperial sigil. And since (to my knowledge) there are no visual depictions of Alkosh available all we have to go off as to what they imagine Alkosh to be like is in books - where he's characterized as a cat. Probably because they're more familiar with what a cat is like that what a dragon actually is.
Consider Words of Clan Mother Ahnissi
>And they gave birth to Alkosh, the First Cat. And Ahnurr said, "Alkosh, we give you Time, for what is as fast or as slow as a cat?"
This is a physical characterisation of him being some kind of cat. It might be because of their limited understanding of what a dragon is or does - but nonetheless he's depicted as being chiefly cat.

>Its both.
I realize that, this is what I meant when I say "it's symbolism all the way down". The symbols are symbolic of something that is also symbolic of something else all the way up to Akatosh himself who is just a symbolic manifestation of a particular aspect of the godhead.

>>384087206
>>384084067
Here's the thing, though. The Hjalti story is the High Rock legend about where Tiber Septim came from. The Skyrim origin is the one repeated in BOTH Skyrim and Cyrodiil, the only difference being that the Cyrodiilic version claims he was half-Cyrodiilic instead of a full Nord. So which do you think is the true story? Especially when Skyrim joined first, and when unreliable narrators and myths are a big idea behind all the written lore?

The empire are cucks and so are you if you didn't go with Ralof and kill the imperial captain cunt

>>384087793
>You're an absolute retard if you compare auto factories from the second third of the 20th century to a 19th century tier sweatshop .
I'm not, I'm comparing working conditions of China to 19th century sweatshop labour.

Of course late 20th century first world auto-factories had better conditions, that's why the jobs went to China anyway.

>>384088028
Not exactly. It's prophesied that the dragons will return with the end of the empire.

>>384077679
>>384077780
They want to end the world. They are far worse than anything you could possibly imagine. Why don't fags who watch ShoddyCast get this?

>>384088695
>Here's the thing, Paarthurnax is right and what he's saying isn't inconsistent with what I'm saying.
It would be if you hadn't asserted that the domineering nature of dragons was no different than all other man, mer, and beastfolk. Dragons were literally made to dominate, its an essential aspect of their very being. No other mundane thing can lay claim to that.

>I'm just saying that the "blessing from Akatosh" aspect is more significant than the "soul" aspect.
The blessing of Akatosh is literally possessing the soul of a Dragon. Akatosh bestowed the status of being Dragonborn on Miraak to defeat alduin. He told him to fuck right off and popped into Apocrypha. There is no difference between the LDB and Miraak other than willingness to pursue Akatosh's intentions.

>the Imperial Pantheon is not the "correct" pantheon
That's true, but saying "Auri-el is still part of Akatosh" is flat-out incorrect. He is no longer part of Akatosh, just like Jyggalag is no longer part of Sheogorath. Just belief isn't enough to make something true, as if it were, the Tribunal's divinity would have remained despite losing their connection to the heart of lorkhan, and the Marukhati Selective would have achieved what they wanted without having to destroy time itself for 1008 years.

>>384088776
>read my post again
You just re-stated what I said and then mentioned a book which calls Alkosh "Great Cat King of Time" in which he roars (or shouts, hence "Voice" in capital letters). We already established they regard dragons to be cats, the book just reiterates that.
>This is a physical characterisation of him being some kind of cat.
None of that describes him as resembling a cat, just restates their belief that dragons are a form of cat.
>I realize that, this is what I meant when I say "it's symbolism all the way down".
Except you said,
>A dragon did not literally break
when one most certainly did.

>>384090391
I'm one of the people you linked and I've already mentioned that a few times ITT.

I say they're more like Nazis than anything because they practice eugenics and have secret police running around in black leather uniforms.

>They are far worse than anything you could possibly imagine
You should realize that as much as that is undesirable, it's not necessarily evil. The Thalmor believe they're doing the world a favour by doing that.

>>384088916
>The Hjalti story is the High Rock legend about where Tiber Septim came from.
Its also the Ghost of Old Hroldan's (a nord) story, when he refers to you as Hjalti and waxes about the days in Alcaire, the same kingdom Hjalti was purported to have been born in.

>>384062225
Worked for AMD

>>384091268
>A Nord
Supports the argument that he's not Breton.

>>384092110
Alcaire is a kingdom in High Rock. Kyne calls Hjalti a manmer, bretons are the offspring of Atmorans and altmer, man and mer, manmer.

>>384092391
>Kyne calls Hjalti a manmer
Where?

It wouldn't even make sense for the big deal human god to be some half-Altmer rape baby.

>>384090784
It's different to just wipe out a race than to wipe it out of existence. Spartans practiced eugenics and secret police have existed since the middle ages or later. It's just suck a weak comparison and labeling them "nazis" generic Hollywood villains is an oversimplification of the lore.

>>384090629
This is going to take three posts.
>It would be if you hadn't asserted that the domineering nature of dragons was no different than all other man, mer, and beastfolk.
Only that's true. And I elaborated on that point much more in that post which you haven't addressed. I also wouldn't say beastfolk are particularly domineering, unlike men, elves and dragons they historically keep to themselves for the most part and their societies are relatively anarchic compared to those of the previously mentioned.

>Dragons were literally made to dominate, its an essential aspect of their very being. No other mundane thing can lay claim to that.
Except men and elves? And in the following example I'm going to cite, especially elves.

The very genesis of men and elves as distinct races lies in the Ehlnofey. Consider A Children's Anuad

> The wandering Ehlnofey expected to be welcomed into the peaceful realm, but the Old Ehlnofey looked on them as degenerates, fallen from their former glory. For whatever reason, war broke out, and raged across the whole of Nirn. The Old Ehlnofey retained their ancient power and knowledge, but the Wanderers were more numerous, and toughened by their long struggle to survive on Nirn.
Elves in particular at their very beginnings are defined by a desire for supremacy and to dominate anything they deem as lesser. It lies at the very heart of their genesis as a distinct race. In this respect they are much alike to the dragons and their domineering nature.

>>384059567
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DQQKw3D-mxc

>>384090629
>>384093063
>Akatosh bestowed the status of being Dragonborn on Miraak to defeat alduin. He told him to fuck right off and popped into Apocrypha. There is no difference between the LDB and Miraak other than willingness to pursue Akatosh's intentions.
Only here's the thing, Miraak was only able to do that because even though he had forsaken Akatosh he now had Hermaeus Mora to help him out. When he encountered LDB this was no longer the case, he had outlived his usefulness to HM and so was easily defeated because one had the assistance of a god and another did not. This is what I'm saying makes the difference, what really made Tiber Septim so great is that he had gods helping him out and were it not for that he would have not been able to be as successful as he was - merely having a dragons soul did not save Miraak without the aid of a god while the aid of HM is what allowed LDB to defeat him.

> Just belief isn't enough to make something true, as if it were, the Tribunal's divinity would have remained despite losing their connection to the heart of lorkhan
1. Yes it is.
2. They would have. Were it not for the fact that they and the temple were publically disgraced by the Nerevarine (and to a certain extent Dagoth Ur) for everyone to see while the ashlanders and the good daedra were vindicated. If the Dunmer continued to believe in their divinity it would have carried on. Just like how the Yokudan pantheon is real in this kalpa purely because the Redguards continued to believe in it.

>>384090629
>>384093063
>>384093134
>and the Marukhati Selective would have achieved what they wanted without having to destroy time itself for 1008 years.
Only they didn't achieve what they wanted. Belief in Auri-El as an analogue to Akatosh continues uninterrupted into the 4E in large parts of Tamriel.

>You just re-stated what I said and then mentioned a book which calls Alkosh "Great Cat King of Time" in which he roars (or shouts, hence "Voice" in capital letters). We already established they regard dragons to be cats, the book just reiterates that.
Or you could stop misrepresenting my points and actually cite what I actually said.
>>. This might be because of a mix up in what a dragon actually is by virtue of the fact that prior to Skyrim no Khajiit probably ever even saw a dragon in the flesh
I fully acknowledge they regard dragons as a kind of cat. But I'm also pointing out they have no idea what a dragon is and their depictions of Alkosh are much more informed by their knowledge of what a cat is like than by actual dragons. As witnessed in Words of Clan Mother Ahnissi
>None of that describes him as resembling a cat, just restates their belief that dragons are a form of cat.
I didn't say it described him as resembling a cat, I said it attributed to him physical characteristics of a cat - that being as fast or as slow as a cat. It demonstrates how they consider him, and by extension mythological dragons, in terms of "cat-like" before ahead of what a dragon actually is.
>when one most certainly did.
Let me rephrase myself
>What is described by "the dragon break" is not as symbol as a singular plain dragon being broken, it is connected to Akatosh's role as the god of time and is a symbolic expression of how time was warped.
And I should add, Akatosh is not a dragon - he is a god that often manifests in the form of a dragon and so is symbolically depicted as one.

>>384092932
>It's just suck a weak comparison and labeling them "nazis" generic Hollywood villains is an oversimplification of the lore.
I realize that.

The point of the comparison is to illustrate that if anything, they're quite the opposite of Tamrielic Jews. Which itself is a weak comparison. It's making a shitty comparison to lampoon another shitty comparison.

After reading those Thalmor dossier I never supported Ulfric again. The (roman) Empire must not fall.

>>384093458
By the time falling was a real possibility the Roman Empire was better off that way.

Also true for the Empire of Tamriel.

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>>384061769

>I joined the empire because its the best way to get rid of the elves
why do you all ignore that the empire are aligning with the elves, did you even do the peace treaty mission?

Dark Brotherhood is the answer either way.

>>384093458
>After reading those Thalmor dossier
I'm sick of seeing this every thread I hope this is bait. read it again.

>>384064670
Divine AIDS makes you immortal though.

>>384094480
It also makes you go nuts and want Dagoth Ur to put holes in your face.

I joined the Stormcloaks so I wouldn't keep getting jumped by Thalmor hit squads every time I walked down the road.

Imperifags are all like "These elf assholes are trying to kill me, guess I should help them take over my country so they can more easily assassinate me", top kek.

>>384093458
>The (roman) Empire must not fall

Technically it already fell with Martin's death and Titus Mede conquering the Imperial City, there's really no real reason for the Empire to exist anymore since the Amulet of Kings is gone and the covenant with Akatosh is over.

I still support the Empire though, at least until the Dominion is defeated.

>>384094771
Not if you suck Fyr's huge cock and get "healed".

>>384092526
C0DA unfortunately
>It wouldn't even make sense for the big deal human god to be some half-Altmer rape baby.
Talos the god is different from Talos Stormcrown the man. Hes a mixture of imperial, Breton, and atmoran, the god of all the non-Yokudan men. Yokudans have Hoonding.

>>384093063
>they historically keep to themselves
Tell that to the Dunmer.

>Except men and elves?
Show me where its explicitly stated they were made to dominate.

>Elves in particular at their very beginnings are defined by a desire for supremacy and to dominate anything they deem as lesser.
Their very beginnings are a desire to return to their previous state.

>>384093134
>When he encountered LDB this was no longer the case...
LDB beat him because he's a fucking god himself, dude mantles Talos.

>Yes it is.
No its not. Something is made real when power is used to do make it so. Dragon arguments are indistinguishable from fights, because the Words are the very concepts they represent. A dragon whose words are more powerful, is more right, because he is stronger.

>They would have...
They why were they weakening before he even arrived? Ghostgate was failing before the prophecy was fulfilled.

>>384093216
>Only they didn't achieve what they wanted.
Notice how the god of time is now a dragon and not a mer?

>Words of Clan Mother Ahnissi
Still, a dragon is a type of cat. Its explicitly stated, by a non-khajit author who has some understanding of dragons, they portray Alkosh as a dragon. Not a cat, a dragon.
>I didn't say it described him as resembling a cat, I said it attributed to him physical characteristics of a cat
That essentially means nothing then. They still consider him a dragon and therefore a type of cat, to which they attribute their characteristics.

>Akatosh is not a dragon
No, he is literally the Dragon God of Time. Just like how Alduin is literally a dragon and dragons have dragon souls like the Dragonborn, who is blessed by the Dragon God with a dragon soul.

>>384095023
>C0DA
The thing that basically tells you it's only as canon as you want it to be?

>Talos the god is different from Talos Stormcrown the man. Hes a mixture of imperial, Breton, and atmoran
And Altmer, if he has any Breton in him. Making him a dirty elf.

>>384094480
And therefore defeats the entire purpose of creation. Lack of mortality = inability to perceive the Wheel and the Tower = no CHIM.

>>384095173
No, Talos is Talos, the God of Man.

The oversoul doesn't care about race m8

>>384095571
All I'm telling you is that if he was a Breton, then some Altmer went into 'im.

>>384095310
Fuck creation. Reaching CHIM is almost impossible and far too risky, just get divine AIDS, vampirism, lichdom or whatever and live forever.

>>384061606
>What do you think happens if Stormcloaks win? What's the plan? How are they going to fight off the Knife Ears?

There will be a second Great War and all the races of Men will form an alliance. The four races of men will be stronger when they are fighting under the banners of their own people, instead of a incompetent, weak Empire with degenerated structures.

The Elves are pretty much screwed. The Mer breed more slowly, so they are always demographically behind Men. The Great War killed many of them, and Men replace the loses faster. Elves are literally incapable of catching up in terms of numbers. A second Great War where just as many Men die as Mer would be the nail in the Dominion's coffin.

I'm glad Online isn't canon.

>>384095173
>The thing that basically tells you it's only as canon as you want it to be?
More of a validation of whatever you headcanon you desire. If you want Talos to be a fucking hist tree/sload hybrid, knock yourself out, its your story.

>>384095173
>>384095768
Having some non-human blood don't matter. Hell, Akatosh became a primarily man-based deity because a literal moneky told some ultra-edgy Alessians to chimp the fuck out so hard time itself broke.

>>384095950
>Fuck creation. Reaching CHIM is almost impossible and far too risky, just get divine AIDS, vampirism, lichdom or whatever and live forever.
The Thalmor mindset everyone. Comfortable lies over uncomfortable truths.

>>384096484
The Thalmor want to undo creation and finally return to aetherius as spirits, dipshit.

>>384059567

Fuck the Stormcloaks. Anyone one of those cunts could have said, he this guy ain't with us instead they where to busy saying fuck the man

>>384096643
>fuck creation... live forever.
Which is exactly what you fucking said knife ears.

>>384080780
>pls someone post the screenshot or pasta of the deconstruction of the Helgen situation and General Tullius was doing what he could to end the war by seizing a perfect opportunity but alkosh and the dragonborn fucked it all up

He could have ended to war right there except he was following a "list" and it's his fault that Ulfric was at the very least 4th on it instead of first.

>>384096364
Anon, I..

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I went threw the entire story without choosing a side, now give me some (you)s

>>384096906
You can't live if you undo creation itself faggot.

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>>384059567
Siding with the Imperials is the only tactical play.

>>384097196
And yet there were Et'ada before mundus.

>>384097339
They were spirits, not mortals/zombies.

I chose the Empire because I like to see my wife fucked and taken away by other men, and I wanted to replicate this experience with videogames.

>>384097321
>Siding with the Imperials is the only tactical play.

It doesn't matter who wins the Civil War as long as it is a short war. The Elves are screwed either way. The dossier on Ulfric says that Ulfric winning is just as bad as him losing right away. There is no way that Ulfric could keep Skyrim out of a second Great War against the mer.

>>384097508
Yes, living spirits.

>>384086685
The Marukhati did more than just separate Akatosh and Auri-El, they separated the original god, Aka, into multiple racial deities. Akatosh, Alduin, Auri-El, and several others (the pieces of the staff are the pieces of Aka, thus the new deities, but I don't remember if it was 7 or 9), are deities born from this event who all used to be one Aedra.

>>384095023
1/2
>Tell that to the Dunmer.
They didn't go out of their way to dominate the Dunmer, they retaliated against the Dunmer's age old oppression of the Argonians and annexation of Argonian lands which they retook. It was merely the first time they had the opportunity to retaliate.

>Show me where its explicitly stated they were made to dominate.
Are you even reading my posts? It's written right into the creation myth of how elves came to be that they would strive for supremacy over lesser beings (men). If you disagree with that analysis then critique the analysis, don't just demand different sources without explaining why the one I just gave isn't satisfactory.

>Their very beginnings are a desire to return to their previous state.
Not their beginnings as elves - as described within the Anuad. The genesis of the elves from among the Ehlnofey is in the events described there.
>LDB beat him because he's a fucking god himself, dude mantles Talos.
LDB didn't beat him though, Hermaeus Mora did. And LDB was only able to get as far as he did with Hermaeus Mora's help - were it not for that he wouldn't have even got the opportunity to try and fight Miraak.

>Something is made real when power is used to do make it so
It is though. If enough people believe in something it will come true, like the Yokudan pantheon. If enough people stop believing in something it will stop being true, like the Thalmor are trying to do with Talos, like the Marukhati Selective tried to do with Auri-El and Akatosh. If a certain amount of force is required to get people to start or stop believing then so be it, but nonetheless belief can make or break the reality of something.

>>384097617
Tell that to the Daedra who exist and yet don't exist at the same time, faggot. If you undo creation you undo the apparent mortality that Aedra have.
Better yet, undo all creation and return to Anu & Padomay.

>>384095023
>>384097778
>They why were they weakening before he even arrived?
Because both served as a source of their power. This is why Vivec was weakening as well despite having already achieved CHIM meaning his divinity was safe. He drew on that as well as the Heart of Lorkhan.

As random NPC's would sometimes point out in Morrowind, it's strange that all of a sudden they were pouring so many resources and so much effort into stamping out the Ashlanders. They were trying to stop the prophecy from coming true by cutting out the believers.

>Notice how the god of time is now a dragon and not a mer?
But he's not, he's both. Gods can manifest in more than one form.

It's not like since Skyrim Boethiah is now female because the most recent depictions are female. As a god they can appear however they like, and often appear in different forms to different people. It just so happens that the Imperial Cult believe Akatosh to be in dragon form. To remind you of what I said earlier.
>Only here's the thing - the Imperial Pantheon is not the "correct" pantheon.
Just because the Empire believes it this does not make it universally true.

>Still, a dragon is a type of cat.
I've already said I agree with you on that many times now.
>Not a cat, a dragon.
Such a simple understanding of their depiction would conflict with hat's written in Words of Clan Mother Ahnissi where he's plainly characterized as cat-like. They understand dragons to be a type of cat, and so attribute to Alkosh cat-like characteristics.
>That essentially means nothing then.
Not an argument.
If they're calling him a cat, describing him in terms of how cat-like he is, maybe there's more to their imagining of him than just "he's a dragon". No?

>Dragon God of Time.
That's a laughably simplistic understanding of TES lore.

Sheogorath normally appears as a man. Is Sheogorath a man? No, he's a Daedra that can take whatever form he likes. Also true for Akatosh.

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>>384097321

>Hammerfell has half of itself conquered while the Empire does nothing, with the Dominion perched to conquer more
>Hammerfell therefore isn't able to contribute as many soldiers to defend the capital
>"Traitorous Redguards"

Wow it's almost like when you let your enemies conquer your allies, your allies become less able to help you

>>384097036
It's not canon. They declared themselves that the later games and lore are all 'transcription errors'. With Online being a spinoff, that means they've effectively retconned themselves out of the main canon.

Unless you want to place Online with more priority than the mainline games.

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>>384060131
The Empire died with Martin. The shell that stands right now isn't worthy of being called it's successor. And the Emperor is more than likely dead.

>>384098359
Dragonborn is the true heir. He can rebuild Cyrodiil to it's former glory.

>>384098082
It's a bait pic, the guy puts the Sacking of the Imperial City and the Battle of Red Ring together like it was one battle even though there was a full year between those two events

>>384097646
I know, they broke AKHAT and flayed him. But my point was that their intention was to eliminate the Merric influences of Akatosh (once an Aldmeri god) and reinvent him as a Mannic god by inserting Lorkhan/Shezzar.

>>384059567
I sided with the Stormcloaks because I'm a retard.

>>384097778
>It's written right into the creation myth of how elves came to be that they would strive for supremacy over lesser beings (men).
Its written that they came info conflict for "some" reason, not that they wanted to dominate them.

>LDB didn't beat him though, Hermaeus Mora did.
And Mora chose him because he was the most powerful. If a blessing was all that was required he just as easily of grabbed a skooma-tripping khajit off the street.

>It is though. If enough people believe in something it will come true, like the Yokudan pantheon.
But its not, the Marukhati "proved" that Akatosh=/= Ari-El, yet he still did. The Dwemer believed reality was not real, yet it still was. It wasn't until they actively sought to change it that it changed.

>>384097858
>But he's not, he's both. Gods can manifest in more than one form.
And yet he only manifests as a man and a dragon.

>Such a simple understanding of their depiction would conflict with hat's written in Words of Clan Mother Ahnissi where he's plainly characterized as cat-like.
Only his actions are cat-like. You can make a statue of a dragon and go, "yeah this thing prowls around at night and eats moon sugar." Its still a dragon.
also,
>"Fadomai-mother, Khenarthi grows lonely so high above the world where not even my brother Alkosh can fly."
Tell me about the flying cats.

>Not an argument.
Exactly summation of everything you've said so far.

>That's a laughably simplistic understanding of TES lore.
You've managed to misunderstand literally every single concept.

>Sheogorath
a daedra, a descendent of Padomay (change)or a non-participating Et'ada, can therefore change shape
>Akatosh
an aedra, a descendent of Anu (stasis), solidified as a World Bone and therefore has a concrete form

>>384097786
Anu and Padomay were both alive bitch.

>>384059567
Imperial Legion.
Let's women command but not fight.
Stormcloaks.
Let women fight but not command.
Explain this.

>>384099713
They merely exist, they cannot die or wither away. Undoing creation and being trapped forever in Mundus thanks to vampirism/lichdom/divine AIDS are polar opposites.

>>384099713
>The Dwemer believed reality was not real, yet it still was.
But it's not.

>>384100089

Skyrim is the Nord's home. The female Stormcloaks are defending their land from Imperial invaders.

I don't understand is why people assume that Empire winning somehow means better chance at winning against Thalmor just because they hold Skyrim and they get a unified Empire
The Nords could have also win and gain independence and still help out the Empire if they try to attack the Thalmor
And since it's going to be roughly the same bodycount no matter who wins so it doesn't matter
As it is, a "unified Empire" that's just held by Thalmor and a destroyed Skyrim Tower is just stupid

>>384100469
>and still help out the Empire if they try to attack the Thalmor
>Hey guys, we just killed a bunch of you and destroyed your empire! We're still friends though right?

>>384098082
Hammerfell was on the road to independence anyway because the pro-Imperial faction, the Forebears, were weakened by the Altmer invasion while the pro-Hammerfell faction, the Crowns went unscathed.

>>384062054
YKTD was right.

>>384100672
>hey guys we just killed you niggers get the fuck off our lawn
>years later
>hey dude those niggers we beat now wants to kill the elves should we help them?

>>384100369
it could be argued the snow elves lived there first but it is irrelevant cause they got CHIMed.

F

>>384100939
>years later
Good luck with that.

>>384100362
But they were still alive. The Thalmor are motivated by hatred of mortality and death, a possible state they consider a side-effect of creation. They want to roll-back their existence to Et'ada, which they consider superior, ignoring the fact that mortality is the means by which true enlightenment is achieved.

>>384100354
It is. Just because its a dream of the godhead foes not mean its not real, anymore than our reality being a creation of the Christian god would invalidate the legitimacy of our existence.

>>384101034
What does the Thalmor have to do with the Dwemer?

>>384099713
1/2
>Its written that they came info conflict for "some" reason, not that they wanted to dominate them.
Read the preceding sentence.
>but the Old Ehlnofey looked on them as degenerates, fallen from their former glory.
And it doesn't say "some" reason as if they do not know, it says "for whatever reason" as if there are different accounts but it ultimately does not matter. As at the end of the day the Children's Anuad is supposed to be a condensed and simplified version of the the creation myth common to mer and men. It is deliberately broad.

>And Mora chose him because he was the most powerful. If a blessing was all that was required he just as easily of grabbed a skooma-tripping khajit off the street.
Only he didn't, he chose him because Miraak was conspiring against him and LDB is like Miraak in that he's dragonborn and so would make the most suitable replacement. I'm not saying the aspect of being dragonborn doesn't matter, I'm saying the blessings of gods is what made the difference between LDB and Miraak as to who won here.

>But its not, the Marukhati "proved" that Akatosh=/= Ari-El, yet he still did
And in a certain respect they're right, as far as the imperial cult is concerned that is true. But it's universally true, divinity in TES is for lack of a better word subjective.

> The Dwemer believed reality was not real, yet it still was
But reality isn't real per se, it's a dream.

>And yet he only manifests as a man and a dragon.
But that's just not true, as Auri-El he has manifested as neither. Not to mention in saying this you appear to have dropped the entire argument to this point, plugged your fingers in your ears and just repeated your original statement.

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>>384099713
>>384101165
2/2
>Only his actions are cat-like. You can make a statue of a dragon and go, "yeah this thing prowls around at night and eats moon sugar." Its still a dragon.
But you can, and in fact the Khajiits appear to have done precisely that, and gone even further still to decide it's in fact a cat.

>Tell me about the flying cats.
Tell me about the cats with god powers that can help create the universe?
There's a difference between having the characteristics of something about literally being something. Quite like how Akatosh is not literally a dragon.

>Exactly summation of everything you've said so far.
>You've managed to misunderstand literally every single concept.
Non-arguments.

>an aedra, a descendent of Anu (stasis), solidified as a World Bone and therefore has a concrete form
>And yet he only manifests as a man and a dragon.
You would appear to have contradicted yourself.

>>384077589
>>384072854
There have been plenty of fine arguments made, but I just want to mention that the Dunmer in Windhelm aren't oppressed. They have their own shops, they freely fly their own banners, they have one drunk who goes around the quarter yelling shit. Ulfric supports/ed giving Solstheim to Morrowind even though it's pretty culturally significant. None of the factions refuse you based on your race, so I don't think it's possible to call Ulfric xenophobic.

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>>384101090
We were addressing the thalmor, but the point stands. Same motivations (escape creation) with different levels of understanding.

>>384101165
>looked on them as degenerates, fallen from their former glory
Doesn't imply an urge to dominate.

>Only he didn't, he chose him because Miraak was conspiring against him and LDB is like Miraak in that he's dragonborn and so would make the most suitable replacement. I'm not saying the aspect of being dragonborn doesn't matter, I'm saying the blessings of gods is what made the difference between LDB and Miraak as to who won here.
Fair enough. But I'd say Mora's blessing was fairly irrelevent, as the only thing he showed the Dragonborn was the same power he bestowed to miraak.

>But reality isn't real per se, it's a dream.
And yet enlightenment in game is realizing that you do exist despite the nature of reality. Hence it being a dream is irrelevant.

>But that's just not true, as Auri-El he has manifested as neither. Not to mention in saying this you appear to have dropped the entire argument to this point, plugged your fingers in your ears and just repeated your original statement.
Only because I've already proven my point, that Auri-El is no more the god of time than zenithar. Everyone refers to disruption of time as the dragon breaking, even the khajit and dunmer. Auri-el lost his connection to time.

>>384101235
>Tell me about the cats with god powers that can help create the universe?
I don't have to, unlike you I never claimed their gods were literally cats.
>There's a difference between having the characteristics of something about literally being something
"Characteristics" of a cat, yet the appearance and abilities of a dragon.
>Non-arguments.
Can't pull that card when you did the same, Mr . "laughably simplistic understanding of TES lore"
>You would appear to have contradicted yourself.
Because Lorkhan (man) was merged with him(dragon). I'm sorry if I only stated that two or three times.

>>384079904
Literally the same as saying "The soldiers didn't win the war, the king did."

>Gameplay mechanics are now indicative of lore
Every race starts with 100 in each stat because Nu-Bethesda are shit cunts.

Also it doesn't even matter if I'm right because 200 years later Argonians still hold their conquests in Morrowind, which means the Dunmer clearly can't take it back. Argonians are probably the most powerful state on Tamriel rn.

>>384059567
i sided with the stormcloaks because skyrim is a shitty game and i wanted to make the shittiest decisions

>>384103108
You already did when you purchased it.

>>384060131
FUCK THE EMPIRE
#SKYEXIT RIGHT NOW!

>>384102469
>Doesn't imply an urge to dominate.
No, but the fact that they subsequently waged war on them does.
>the same power he bestowed to miraak.
I'm saying the blessing is manifested in how Miraak would guide the course of events in LDB's favour, not unlike how Karliah describes Nocturnal's blessing on the Nightingales as working. This is most visibly seen when Mora straight up impales Miraak at the conclusion of his fight with LDB.

>And yet enlightenment in game is realizing that you do exist despite the nature of reality.
CHIM is realizing that the world isn't really real but it also is and understanding fully how such a seemingly contradictory concept can be true. To quote one of the joke answers to the Dawnstar sanctuary door "Reality is a dream and dreams are real".

> that Auri-El is no more the god of time than zenithar. Everyone refers to disruption of time as the dragon breaking, even the khajit and dunmer..
Only you didn't, and I would say that furthermore you point is very challenged by the fact that most in game literature on the subject describes Auri-El as the Aldmeri version of Akatosh. If we're going to take Varieties of Faith in the Empire seriously when it says Alkosh is depicted as a dragon it would be hypocritical to ignore it when it says Auri-El is literally just the Elven version of Akatosh.

>unlike you I never claimed their gods were literally cats.
Neither did I, I said he's described as a cat.
>"Characteristics" of a cat, yet the appearance and abilities of a dragon.
You mean the abilities of a cat, as written in Words of Clan Mother Ahnissi
>Can't pull that card when you did the same, Mr . "laughably simplistic understanding of TES lore"
That would be true were it not for the fact I elaborated on why that is the case immediately afterwards.

>Because Lorkhan (man) was merged with him(dragon). I'm sorry if I only stated that two or three times
If he can appear in more than one form he doesn't really have a concrete form does he?
.

>>384059567
Because the dovahkiin is canonically a Nord male. No logical reason whatsoever to side with impericucks, even disregarding the fact that wanted to execute him for nothing.

>>384102890
>Literally the same as saying "The soldiers didn't win the war, the king did."
If the king was able to mind control all his soldiers and co-ordinate them through that then such a statement would be true.

>Gameplay mechanics are now indicative of lore
If we're going to take the fact that in this game Argonians don't look like graphical-AIDS as being indicative of lore I see no reason why not.

>>384103528
>Because the dovahkiin is canonically a Nord male
Source?

>right at the beginning it is established the empire is basically a horrible bureaucracy showcased by their list. Also the empire forces skyrim to fight for them and forces them to accept refugees

Please tell me how anyone can be so cucked to want the empire? Its basically fantasy EU.

>>384059567
I didn't side with anyone. I don't care if people made a fucking thesis on how siding with the Empire is what hurts the Thalmor the most or if not siding with anyone benefits them. The game kept telling me that I was the chosen one of every fucking thing I did, so I figure a civil war was beneath me anyway, since the game made sure to remind me at every opportunity that I was so cool and had such a huge dick. Also, I stopped caring about the shitty story long before I got to the cities where you can even join them.

>>384103614
>King gives his soldiers weapons and tells them to go fight in a war
>soldiers win

replace 'king' with 'hist' and 'soldiers' with 'lizards', and what i said is true. the hist ordered the argonians to fuck some daedra up, and so the argonians fucked some daedra up. and then the argonians fucked some elves up too, just because they felt like it.

>graphical-AIDS
argonians looked cool in morrowind, but they also looked weak.

>>384103683
>and forces them to accept refugees
Only it doesn't?

If the high king wanted he could have told the Dunmer to fuck off.

>>384103671
It’s the default choice.

>>384103671
The default character in every Elder Scrolls game as been the canonical one.

>>384104026
> the hist ordered the argonians to fuck some daedra up,
Only it's not as simple as that. They're able to literally channel the Argonians into a giant Hist-controlled hivemind. They order them around in the same manner GSG players order video game armies around, they control literally everything they do.

>argonians looked cool in morrowind, but they also looked weak.
They had the same build as everyone else - which is also true for Skyrim.

>>384104140
Source?

>>384062738
They didn't pull the troops, there are like 3 sources that say they didn't and one redoran guy who says they did and everyone blindly trusts the redoran guy for some reason.

>>384104360
> there are like 3 sources that say they didn't
Do you have them?

>>384104091
The empire was controlling the border at the beginning of the game. That is how you and Ulfric got captured
They LITERALLY control skyrim borders. Skyrim has no sovereignty under the Empire.
Skyrim should leave that failing union.

>>384104587
In the oblivion main plot the main character asks Ocato (leader of the elder council) for the support of the legions and he says that he won't pull the legions out of other provinces because that would be a bad strategic move.
The book rising threat says
>Potentate Ocato made admirable efforts to rein in the bedlam that threatened to rip the Empire apart, and was even making headway when Red Mountain erupted and destroyed much of Vvardenfell. What was left of Morrowind was thrown into absolute chaos. The effects of the eruption were felt even in Black Marsh, destroying roads and cutting off the Imperial garrisons there.

The empire only started falling apart after the thalmor assassinated Ocato, but while he was alive he was trying to keep the empires allies, which I doubt included ditching morrowind. The great war book actually says that morrowind is still part of the empire surprisingly, which wouldn't be said if they abandoned them 200 years ago.

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>>384103417
>No, but the fact that they subsequently waged war on them does.
Cause and instigators of the war isn't clarified.

>CHIM is realizing that the world isn't really real but it also is and understanding fully how such a seemingly contradictory concept can be true.
The truth being, "I exist despite the nature of my reality, because my existence is real." or narcissism.
>Only you didn't, and I would say that furthermore you point is very challenged by the fact that most in game literature on the subject describes Auri-El as the Aldmeri version of Akatosh. If we're going to take Varieties of Faith in the Empire seriously when it says Alkosh is depicted as a dragon it would be hypocritical to ignore it when it says Auri-El is literally just the Elven version of Akatosh.
Only because they have no other god to compare it to. Notice how they differ in creation, one paves the way for the Aedra to creation and the other seeks retribution for them? They are both the "chief" or "ultimate" of their respective pantheons, but one is a God of Time and the other King of Aldmer. They became two distinct beings, and Godhood of Time was lost on Auri-El.
>Neither did I, I said he's described as a cat.
"depicted as a fearsome dragon"
>You mean the abilities of a cat, as written in Words of Clan Mother Ahnissi
flying and using the Voice?
>That would be true were it not for the fact I elaborated on why that is the case immediately afterwards.
Which I immediately addressed as well, by proving your understanding of the abilities and nature of Daedra and Aedra incorrect.

>If he can appear in more than one form he doesn't really have a concrete form does he?
When he is the literal fusion of two discrete forms he can. The dragon/man can be both a dragon and a man.

>>384078328
>They aren't concerned about making shekels rather than outright DESTROYING mankind because of their superiority complex.
But the jews want to destroy us and attack our religion too, I don't see the difference.

>>384104813
>The empire was controlling the border at the beginning of the game. That is how you and Ulfric got captured
Skyrim's border to Morrowind is entirely controlled by Stormcloaks. One side is controlled by the Stormcloaks, the other is controlled by House Redoran. The Empire doesn't have anything to really do with it.

If you mean before Ulfric then back then there was no border. They were all in the same empire.

>>384105415
>They were all in the same empire.
DISGUSTING

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Folks like to pretend Ulfric is some kind of a huge racist for putting the Dunmer and Argonians in separate districts.
First of all, letting any outlander take residence in your city is clearly a big fucking deal to these people, since you have to fight a war, kill a dragon, or clear out a vampire den to be even be considered worthy of purchasing a home in any hold of Skyrim. For the Dunmer to have been allowed into the city in mass numbers to become a real minority, they couldn't have all done massive Dragonborn-level quests, and were probably let in based on nothing more than the kindness of the Nords hearts in the first fucking place, as a special exception. Being bigoted against them isn't warranted or anything, but to act like they have no reason to fight in the name of their new home is to show some serious lack of appreciation on their part. And the Argonians are kept to the docks because if they were allowed in the city there'd be a literal race war between them and the Dunmer. They fucking hate each other after their long feuding history.
Blaming all these long-standing issues on Ulfric being a big meanie is about the most retarded conclusion you could possibly come to after finishing all the quests.
The only "legitimate" instance of Ulfric being a racist is in Free-Winters' dialogue, where he says Ulfric doesn't stop criminals from preying on the elves (Windhelm guards aren't even competent enough to stop a simple murder spree inside the city, but that's obviously against imperialposter narrative). Other evidence of this? None. But why would he lie? He has nothing to gain by making Ulfric look like a bad guy and turning people toward the Legion. It's not like he'd get anything out of- Oh wait.

>>384105128
>Cause and instigators of the war isn't clarified.
It's very, very, very heavily implied it was the non-wandering Ehlnofey.
>The wandering Ehlnofey expected to be welcomed into the peaceful realm, but the Old Ehlnofey looked on them as degenerates fallen from their former glory
>Only because they have no other god to compare it to.
Or they could just not compare it to any other god as they often do in VOFITE. And it's not a comparison anyway, they straight up say Auri-El is LITERALLY Akatosh. They don't compare him to Akatosh they say he is Akatosh.
>"depicted as a fearsome dragon"
Which (according to the Khajiit) is just a big cat. And see below
>flying and using the Voice?
>>And they gave birth to Alkosh, the First Cat. And Ahnurr said, "Alkosh, we give you Time, for what is as fast or as slow as a cat?"

>Which I immediately addressed as well, by proving your understanding of the abilities and nature of Daedra and Aedra incorrect.
You did immediately address it. But my point is that if you substantiate your statement with any attempt at logic or evidence it's not a non-argument.

And in doing so you immediately contradicted your own argument.

>When he is the literal fusion of two discrete forms he can. The dragon/man can be both a dragon and a man.
If he can be both one thing and another thing that is not having a specific concrete form.

>>384105670
Then why do the elves proclaim how good the empire is and how happy they are that they are back in imperial control after the imperials take windhelm.

>>384105093
>The great war book actually says that morrowind is still part of the empire surprisingly, which wouldn't be said if they abandoned them 200 years ago.
To be fair as we can see in Dragonborn Morrowind is definitely a part of the Empire. But the Empire doesn't appear to have any real presence whatsoever so their membership in the empire seems to be totally nominal.

And we also see that pro-imperial House Hlaalu are absolutely and totally RIP while anti-imperial Redoran are ascendant so Morrowind seems like it's heading in the same direction as Hammerfell.

>>384098458
>unironically thinking Beth wont pull the DUDE YOUR CHARACTER DISAPPEARED OR BECAME A MAD GOD card again

>>384106007
Because they're fucking knife-eared Imperial spies looking out for their Altmeri cousins.

Day of the Wuuthrad soon.

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>>384106393
>Day of the Wuuthrad
You owe me a new keyboard.

>>384106385
They are going to kill him off
Probably a double kill during his fight with Miraak
>>384106007
Tavernkeeper is literally an imperial agent
He has their armour on the 2nd floor of the building

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>>384106393
>Day of the Wuuthrad

>>384106596
>Well, not yet. The Empire hasn't been in charge for that long, and real change takes time. Still, having a just and honorable man like Brunwulf in charge can only be an improvement. Unlike Ulfric, Brunwulf has shown a great willingness to work with the other races and make us feel more at home here. For the first time in a long while, I truly believe that there are brighter days ahead.
Its more than just the tavernkeeper.

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>>384106596
>Probably a double kill during his fight with Miraak
Judging by the dialog i think he is going to be trapped there and go insane or something.

>>384106385
>OR BECAME A MAD GOD
you became mad, you didn't become a god

remember, dyus was an all-knowing character
>All sources indicate that you will fail. It is a certainty.
the champion failed, it is the canon outcome

>>384106385
They're going to turn him into a dragon god.

>>384105906
>It's very, very, very heavily implied it was the non-wandering Ehlnofey.
Its quite literally stated "for whatever reason, war broke out" it is not possible to be any more vague.
>they straight up say Auri-El is LITERALLY Akatosh
In context of his status of chief deity. Auri-El became the God of Time when he mantled AKHAT and committed the first Dragon Break, as according to the Underking ("So could the High King of Alinor, who was the one who broke it in the first place.") The Marukhati undid that,
>A pillar appears in hues of splendor. Searing pinpoints of light in the shape of the letters AKHAT.
>The imposter dances upon it? Undulates?
>The many ways of walking? What does walking have to do with anything?
>It splits into the number of walking ways. Only eight?
>The impostor must dance upon the tower, the notes must ring. The time must be to not.
and substituted the Auri-El (and therefore Merric) aspect with the Lorkhan (and therefore Mannic) aspect. Auri-El has been completely removed from the God of Time.
>Which (according to the Khajiit) is just a big cat. And see below
The khajits' retardation regarding taxonomy doesn't change the fact they depict literal dragons. Alkosh is flat out referred to as "Dragon King of Cats" and then immediately described as a dragon. Meanwhile Auri-El is "King of the Aldmer."
>"Alkosh, we give you Time, for what is as fast or as slow as a cat?"
None of the other khajut deities have their gift capitalized, "Time" could just as easily imply immortality.
>If he can be both one thing and another thing that is not having a specific concrete form.
Being two, and only two things, no more and no less, is a specific concrete form.

>>384097604
Mostly because the High Elves want to waste as much of the Empire's resources as possible. If the war ends quickly either way, then it stops weakening the Empire.

Chances are if Ulfric won, the elves would just invade Skyrim since, by throwing the Empire out and declaring their own independence, it's no longer part of the Empire, and the Altmer wouldn't be breaking the peace treaty by invading the shit out of it.

Assuming Ulfric isn't just a Altmer puppet anyways.

>>384108069
The elves don't give a fuck about skyrim, there is nothing of value there. Its also on the opposite side of the continent, they would have to sail around all of tamriel.

>>384108257
>there is nothing of value there
The Throat of the World

>>384108257
>they would have to sail around all of tamriel
Not at all.
I'm sure Cyrodiil would bend over backwards to not only provide military access to elven armies, but also ensure their supply lines.

>>384077979

kevin stewart, pls go and stay go before we have to post more triggering pictures

>>384108293
If you are referring to it as a tower than it has already fallen, they probably care more about the Adamantine tower (which would explain their fascination with invading hammerfell)

>>384108412
The empire has their legions at the border, prepared for the war, if the dominion tried to march their armies into cyrodiil territory than that would be the start of the war.

>>384085537
>>384089218
It's worth mentioning that the outsourcing was a fucking mistake anyways. American cars became a fucking joke. Compare any model chevy from the 70s to the 2000s to a Toyota. The dip in quality is embarrassing.

>>384107797
>Its quite literally stated "for whatever reason, war broke out" it is not possible to be any more vague.
That would be true if you ignored the preceding sentence as you did.
>In context of his status of chief deity.
No context necessary, they straight up say this is the case in the most explicit language possible. As does The Alduin/Akatosh Dichotomy. At no point do they say "He's the chief deity of the elves", they say he's what the elves call Akatosh.

Indeed if we're to consider The Monomyth it states that every "first god" in every culture is that culture's version of Akatosh.
>The Marukhati undid that,
Only they didn't, by virtue of causing a dragon break sources conflict on what immediately followed their attempt and it remains unclear whether it was successful or not. And in any case the Altmer and Bosmer continue to carry on their veneration of Auri-El as an analogue to Akatosh uninterrupted.

To say that they succeeded is like saying a certain ending to Daggerfall happened.
>The khajits' retardation regarding taxonomy doesn't change the fact they depict literal dragons.
Clearly I must repeat myself, according to the Khajiit that is just a kind of cat and so attribute cat-like characteristics to him and imagine him in terms of how cat-like he is in their mythology.

>Alkosh is flat out referred to as "Dragon King of Cats" and then immediately described as a dragon. Meanwhile Auri-El is "King of the Aldmer."
Of course he is, because he's depicted as an elf and not a dragon. But nonetheless he is Akatosh, this is my entire point from the get-go.

>Time" could just as easily imply immortality.
But all their gods are immortal? Except Lorkhaj who's dead.

>Being two, and only two things, no more and no less, is a specific concrete form.
No it isn't. That's like saying Vivec has a concrete gender.

And as we can see with Auri-El it's not just two things.

>>384108069
They couldn't invade Hammerfell which is right across from the Summerset Isles.

How the fuck are they going to invade Skyrim when it's at the complete opposite side of the continent?

>>384108521
No, it is actually only damaged but still active

>>384108968
Cyrodiil.

>>384108995
Then why does the book of the dragonborn describe all of the towers that have fallen and include the snow tower.

>>384109039
Marching armies right into their biggest enemies territory would start the next great war, they aren't dumb enough to do that.

>>384109089
>When the Snow Tower lies sundered, kingless, bleeding
dead things dont bleed

>>384109208
Dead things do bleed, it just means it fell recently.

>>384109351
>Dead things do bleed, it just means it fell recently.
Or that the tower is damaged
There is nothing to suggest that the tower was deactivated
Thalmor wasnt in skyrim for that long
I dont think that deactivating towers is easy and nothing in Skyrim is suggesting that it happened during the game

>>384059567
>implying i even went to Whiterun

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>>384108882
>That would be true if you ignored the preceding sentence as you did.
Because it doesn't matter. It could just as easily have been the Wandering Ehlnofey getting pissy at their pretentiousness.
>Indeed if we're to consider The Monomyth
and its always a dragon
>Only they didn't...
You might have a point if Akatosh didn't play favorites from that point on, blessing every single man, woman, and child who fought elves. Lorkhan had Akatosh toss Alessia the Amulet of Kings and made Remen and Septim both dragonborns who carved out empires while the elves sat around getting their asses kicked.
>Clearly I must repeat myself...
You're actually arguing the Dragon King of Cats, portrayed as a dragon, with the Voice, and capable of flight, is somehow not a dragon because his mannerisms are cat-like.
>Of course he is, because he's depicted as an elf and not a dragon.
Is that why the Altmer are running around saying "cool as the scales of Auri-El", "fiery breath of Auri-El" while praying at pic related?
>But nonetheless he is Akatosh, this is my entire point from the get-go.
No, that would be "Akatosh isn't literally a dragon" when every other name for him is Dragon-something and every description of him is as a dragon. And "As much as Tamrielic dragons are ambition-driven so are Tamrielic men and elves" despite Paarthurnax saying, " We were made to dominate. The will to power is in our blood" and providing zero corroborating evidence for men and mer being the same.
>But all their gods are immortal?
No, but dragons are.
>No it isn't. That's like saying Vivec has a concrete gender.
No its like saying Vivec appears half chimer and half dunmer, because he's does.
>And as we can see with Auri-El it's not just two things.
And no matter what, its always Dragon-_ anything related to time is a dragon. Akatosh is a fucking dragon.

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I've played through Skyrim twice - both times shortly after release. I hadn't played any other Elder Scrolls titles before that, but I had general knowledge of the situation in the games' world. During both of those playthroughs, I sided with the Imperials, because it seemed like the safest bet when it came to general stability. Currently, I'm just starting out my third playthrough of Skyrim having just freshly finished Morrowind and Oblivion and I must say I'm now leaning more towards the Stormcloak side. The Empire was founded entirely by Tiber Septim - a leader and hero of such caliber, that he literally ascended to godhood. Throughout its existence, the Empire relied on his bloodline to stay in power. Only the last emperor died literally saving the world from elven/daedric shenanigans. What came after was no longer the Empire of the Septims and things promptly started falling apart. The Medes are not a great dynasty. They did not come to power as a result of any epic deeds, but rather sneaky maneuvering during a time of general political fuckery in the capital. Then they openly turned on their own divine patron, bent to the elves' demands and let most of their provinces run amok. In a world shaped by legendary heroes, where gods can regularly interfere that really means something.

The Empire is no longer supported by Talos' legacy and is in a state of decline. It's natural that it falls apart and new leaders arise from the period of instability. The Stormcloaks are harbingers of that. They are zealous warriors fighting for their own countrymen. They also have a leader they follow with a passion - a guy with military expertise, charisma and essentially superhuman abilities. That he is also a dick is unfortunate, but ultimately less important than his other qualities.

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>>384059567
>siding with anyone in Bethesda rpg games
It's like you hate freedom

>>384097321
Where's the stormcloak version of this?

>>384110516
I sided with stormcloacks BECAUSE I love freedom

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>>384110146
1/2
>Because it doesn't matter.
But it does matter, that's the context for the following sentence and the implication could not be any more heavy handed.
>and its always a dragon
Does he look like a fucking dragon?

Additionally, I see you've given up on your previous argument that Akatosh and Auri-El are different.
>You might have a point if Akatosh didn't play favorites from that point on, blessing every single man, woman, and child who fought elves. Lorkhan had Akatosh toss Alessia the Amulet of Kings and made Remen and Septim both dragonborns who carved out empires while the elves sat around getting their asses kicked.
You would have a point were it not for a fact that he blessed Alessia as dragonborn and made his covenant with here before the dragon break. And that Reman and Tiber Septim weren't elf-slayers, they just made attempts (one of which was successful) to unify Tamriel.

Actual elf-slayers like Pelinal Whitestrake also predated the dragon break and who still had ties to Akatosh.

>You're actually arguing the Dragon King of Cats, portrayed as a dragon, with the Voice, and capable of flight, is somehow not a dragon because his mannerisms are cat-like.
But I'm not?
I'm arguing that he's not a dragon or a cat on the basis that he's 100% Aedric god, however it's also worth noting that the Khajiit aren't entirely unjustified in considering him to be a cat and a dragon.

>Is that why the Altmer are running around saying "cool as the scales of Auri-El", "fiery breath of Auri-El" while praying at pic related?
Only ESO is not canon.

>No, that would be "Akatosh isn't literally a dragon"
If my point was that simple the argument would be definitively over in 1 post because that's objectively true. He's not a literal dragon he's a literal Aedra, saying he's a dragon is like saying YHWH is human because he's portrayed as the father of humanity and manifested as human on occasion.

>>384110146
>>384112985
>and providing zero corroborating evidence for men and mer being the same.
Except the creation myth and all of Tamrielic history?

>No, but dragons are.
Okay, so he's a literal dragon because he's immortal but lets just ignore for a second that of course he's fucking immortal because he's a god.
Excellent argument.

>No its like saying Vivec appears half chimer and half dunmer, because he's does.
Only Akatosh isn't ever depicted as half-man half-dragon. He's always depicted as fully one, the other, or both.

>And no matter what, its always Dragon-_ anything related to time is a dragon. Akatosh is a fucking dragon.
Akatosh is a fucking Aedra.