Could he have been salvaged?

You can't salavage edge

There's only so much garbage you can recycle

>I will exact revenge on my asshole dad by helping him

I don't understand

Akechi was wasted potential big time. I feel like some of the game was rushed once you reach Okumura's palace and onwards. It shows once you finish the negotiations to track down the second half of the palace.

>>383996937
I think the turning point for me was when the self insert MC knew things the player didn't.

>>383996173
wasted potential the character. his entire plan was head in pants retarded and it did not help he injured and killed people by his own free will.

>>383996684
Common theme in stories about a character seeking revenge. You help out your enemy and allow them to be at ease thinking that you are on their side and strike right when they least expect it. The problem with this strategy lies in the fact that target almost always knows that you are up to something or never really trusted you in the first place, so they give you just enough rope to hang yourself.

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His best moment was his assassination of joker without a doubt, that shit actually made my heart stop.
Such a shame that the confrontation in Shido's palace was good, but just "good" and not amazing like it should have been.

>>383997306
this dude has a really punchable face

>>383996684

He's a victim of the game's poor writing.

No character can have realistic motivations because the Phantom Thieves are pure cinnamon rolls that dindu nuffin.

Because Akechi was the only character with a legitimate point against them, they had to make him go full retard at the list minute.

It would have been nice to see a legitimate lawfag in a Persona game, but the fanbase is too stupid to understand that Law=/=Good unless we see them kill people.

I'm surprised they even had you fight the angels at the end.

>>383997306
meh. i knew he was the traitor so it did not effect me at all. than the hole "the party knew he was the traitor and we get to see them lure him into a trap" was badly executed.

>>383996173
If Joker was a girl she could have seduced Akechi into being a good guy.

>>383997502
I knew he was the traitor too but it still freaked me the fuck out because the game makes you think you've screwed up and got a bad ending, I mean speak for everyone but it certainly got me.

>>383998002
*I mean I can't speak for everyone

>>383996173
Yes he shouldn't have been the traitor but still an evil third party who fucks with you and kills people for his own reasons. Somebody else from your team should have been the traitor. Goro should have just been an evil cunt who decides to hide his evil and join you because he wants to be on the winning side.

>>383998002
Nah, it got me too, especially because I ran out of time in Kamoshida's palace and got a bad ending once, in which the same thing happens.

>>383996173
no, he killed way too many people to be redeemed

>Died off screen
Yeah he's coming back

He is the MC of Persona 5: Crimson

Haru should have been the traitor. That way they could have injected some personality or character traits into her

>>383997306
Character goes out of his way to prove he is evil and has zero interest in becoming friends with you
>Kills you
>Game tries to get sympathy out of you for someone that murdered in cold blood
>Have to pick the sappy answers and forgive him, because the game doesn't give any real choices

>>384000154
I somewhat agree, isn't her whole persona about betryal?
It would be interesting to see a cute fluffy girl have a deranged personality and complex motives.

Black mask and traitor should be two separate people.
Akechi would betray you because he believed that police must catch you. Black mask would exploit this and try to kill you.

But i don't have an idea, who the black mask should be for the story and the "we knew it was coming" plot twist to work

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>>383996173
Nah, he killed far too many people to be salvaged, victims including Futaba's mom. I fucking doubt he's actually dead though. They wouldn't have "killed" him off screen if he was.

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>>384000545
>complex motives

>>383996173
He'd probably make an okay SMT character but he's too layered for Persona.

>>383998002
I wanted to get the bad ending first so I refused to give up my confidants. I thought that was the bad decision since he does the polar opposite earlier in the game when you get confidants.

>>383998002
I got the bad ending first, because i tought sae-san would save my ass, so imagine getting double shooted in the exact same cutscene.

>>383996173
He will be saved in Persona 5 Crimson and you'll be able to date him

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his armor kinda looks like the berserker right?

>>384000560
>But i don't have an idea, who the black mask should be for the story and the "we knew it was coming" plot twist to work
A new waifu like the slut they're shoehorning in Strange Journey

For some reason I thought this was Estinien from FFXIV and the thread made sense for 2-3 posts.

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>>384002015
>get to fuck black mask

Honestly what was his endgame after he killed shido?
Wahoo I did it, now what?
The fact that he didn't expect shido to betray him was retarded though. Like shido has groo kill people who stop being useful, yet groo is super suprised when he is about to be killed because he stopped being useful.

They honestly should have not had a traitor. There was so much effort in hiding akechi, everyone figured out what they were gonna do with him. They did this so much better in 4 with adachi.

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>>384000154
>>384000545
Two huge faggots with reading comprehension problems. The SIU director always spoke of another party when he was on the phone, a cleanup man and always referred to that person as a male. Igor also revealed the identity of the Metaverse Black Mask user as a male before September by a slip of the tongue.

Both of you are genuinely mentally challenged if you thought Haru had any flags to be the traitor. She was in Hawaii at the time the Black Mask murdered the school principal. Dumbasses.

>>383999719
Just like the P3 protagonist and Shinji came back, right anon?

>>383996173
No, he killed Futaba's mother and Haru's father. He also went on a killing spree for two years and besides the outright murders, incidents like the train also injured many people, which is attributed to him as well. What Adachi did in Persona 4 was limited to two people and he didn't outright kill anyone on-screen, you could argue manslaughter but Adachi didn't kidnap anyone or murder anyone. He had a "cleaner" plate to mess around with and try to bring him back without any huge backlash. Now, had Nanako died then I don't think Adachi could have been brought back without upsetting people, even if we go by that Adachi manslaughter defense. Anyhow, the real reason Akechi can't be salvaged is because the entire plot of Persona 5 from start till late November is the traitor sells you out. It's THE first cutscene in the game, you can't just undo that.

You can bitch that doing the plot this way was messy and dumb, and I agree, but no amount of pre-story DLC is going to fix Akechi. His character is too integral to the story. You -could- have Akechi's backstory be revealed in that he was "possessed" by Yabadabadoo so he wasn't behind the murder of Futaba's mother; but you can't get around Akechi selling you out. You're in police custody so Sae's Confidant will have to be reworked big time, all because of fucking Akechi.

>>383997215
>>383997478
JUST GO INTO HIS PALACE AND FUCKING KILL HIM

YOU DON'T NEED INTEL

YOU DON'T NEED HIS TRUST

JUST DO IIIIIIIIIIIIIIT

>>384002145
He is 17-18, you don't have your life planned at that age. He probably would have just offed himself anyway since his life would have remained shit anyway.

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Don't fuck with this prime minister

>>384002630
It would have been fixed by not hiding Akechi since he was in the cover and most pre-release artwork.

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>>383996937
Okumura's palace was meant to be like that. You're supposed to think "Why the hell are we doing this?" out of all the palaces. That is because Okumura was a hitjob the Phantom Thieves were not-so-subtlety forced to take once Shido and his conspirators decided to make the Phantom Thieves the fall guy. Out of all the palaces, that one was the least free will involved. Haru's ex-fiance could have been solved with a minor change of heart quest at Rank 7 just like all other Mementos requests from Confidants. Shido and Akechi wanted you to clean up the place and Akechi got the killshot, it was manipulation.

>>383997142
Akechi is dumb as a rock and while I don't like his character, his plan was 2+ years in the making. That means he was likely an edgy 12-13 year old when he awaken to his Persona and crafted an edgy dumbass plan. Like in the real world, once you sink enough time/effort into a goal/project, you're gonna see through to the end even if have second guesses in the back of your hand.

>>384000545
Also Haru's betrayal was the first thing she did on the first floor of her dad's palace. She sided with the Phantom Thieves and told her dad's shadow to fuck off. That's literally what Milady says in her awakening scene. Please pay attention or see me after class.

>>384002145
Someone said he was gonna blackmail Shido but IDK, that seems to be like a bad idea given the company around Shido that could take him out, he's just a kid. He needs a place to eat and sleep, he doesn't have the resources or manpower to play the long con of survival against Shido with blackmail. It's really a dumbass plan through and through. Publicly humiliating Shido on the other hand, I just don't get it.

A lot of people rightfully hate Akechi, but Sae isn't an angel either. She even forces you to be arrested before celebrating New Year's properly and does it without any tact at all. Sae's True Justice Confidant bonus also does nothing. True justice, what?

>>384002630
>>384003413
The real twist is that Akechi was basically just a nobody. He's not even a real boss, he just ambushes you in the middle of a palace, and is never mentioned again afterwards.

>>384003132
The funny thing is that the game hypes him up as being so strong that the team needed to gang up on him, he has a wild card, he can control shadows, he could easily waltz in with Loki and Robin hood with some shadows and beat Shido.
It's retarded.
>>384003517
>>384002789
>Did Haru a favour
I see nothing wrong

>>384003517
>A lot of people rightfully hate Akechi,
Not really. Minus fujos, he's kinda likable in Japan. Yusuke's nip VA also admit that he likes Goro too.

>>384003807
If he just killed Shido's shadow, Shido would probably die not knowing what happened. Akechi wanted him to know it was because of him.
It's retarded but it makes sense.

>>384002789
>Just like the P3 protagonist and Shinji came back, right anon?
>Shinji died on screen and there's his funeral
>P3 MC died and mentioned clearly in the Answer
>Goro's scene is offscreen with ambiguous gunfire.

Yeah right anon

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>>384003807
Shido/Akechi used Medjed to hype the Phantom Thieves during the summer. Then, for whatever reason, Shido wanted Okumura gone and ordered the hit by manipulating the polls to have him rise on the Phansite. Actually, why did Shido want Okumura gone to begin with? It's not like Okumura was going to rat anyone out like the school principal attempted.

For the Phantom Thieves to be ousted as bad guys, they needed to be complicit enough in a murder, and Okumura was the least important part of Shido's scheming so he was offered on a silver plate to help his ambitions. Now if that was the case, the translators did a poor job of getting that across. I think it makes the most sense, Akechi told Shido that Okumura was planning on exiting the business world so Shido wouldn't get free money and therefore he became expendable for the greater good.

All I'm saying is if they have DLC, they could rewrite it just enough to prevent Okumura's murder. Because then there's no reason for the police to go insane to catch the thieves. By rewriting it so Haru's ex-fiance can be done away with a Mementos quest, it still keeps her awakening mostly intact and wouldn't require a massive workaround. This frees up Akechi just enough so he could have a different outcome. Of course a lot of other cases could be handwaved with Mementos one off boss fight, but that palace is unfortunately tied to the reason you're arrested so it's the one that requires a magnifying glass to prevent it from happening in a rewrite.

tldr;
Akechi and Sae are dumbasses.

>>384004164
I liked Akechi, while his demise was quite cliche, altogether he was a cool character and really spiced up the story, for me at least.

>>384004982
He and all the other characters were uninteresting. At least the characters in P4 were based on the simple notion that they're not what they first appear to be. Oh, and Yukiko who's just there anyway.

>>384005245
>p4 characters
>not what they appear to be

Kanji was completely what he appeared to be. He wasn't actually sensitive or gay, he was a tough guy that happened to like sewing. WOW SO INTERESTING

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Castle: Required for survival.
Museum: Optional, but doesn't hurt the story.
Bank: Optional, highy queationable reasons for doing so outside of Makoto fucking up.
Pyramid: Integral to the Shido/Medjed main plot.
Space station: Essential for the Shido/Akechi main plot.
Casino: Essential for the Shido/Akechi main plot.
Cruise ship: Essential for the main plot.
Mementos Depth: Wildcard for anything.

I've been spitballing for a while and I'm caught on what needs fixing. I mean, the whole thread is about what you can do to fix Akechi. As you can see, by the 5th dungeon is when you really can't mess around with the story without hurting the late game's consistency. But Akechi's been doing this for 2 years, so there's no point in reworking the first 4 dungeons to clear up Akechi's scheming.
An accomplice ending like Golden would work in that you're triple crossing him for the long con. Akechi becomes playable by the bank/pyramid heist, scenario is he blackmails you much earlier to keep tabs on you. Akechis' Confidant can branch off like the Jester, with the new path being a different outcome by Okumura's dungeon. Haru can be rewritten early on as well, her awakening is tied to a locked calendar rank up like Sojiro's. You can bump Haru's scenario to right after the bank, Futaba's arc has a lot of dead air of waiting around for nothing. With the two major pieces involved for the space station level out of the way, the 5th dungeon doesn't have to end like it did in the original game. This means Casino and Cruise can be altered without much rework.

Game will have rebalancing for Akechi/Haru being included early on. Akechi was possessed by Yabadabadoo during his crime wave. Cleaning up the missing Metaverse research is a dungeon from Jan-February.

>>384005516
>like sewing
>not gay

Contradicting yourself in your own post? That's new.

>>383997083
pretty typical for a detective story, but in a video game it is a different dynamic

akechi and the guys behind shido should've all had they're own palaces

>>384005748
Fuck off yosuke

>>384005717
Don't forget the DLC true final boss, either Sophia or Abraxas. Yaldabaoth is just a fake deity anyways.

>>384005717
The optional dungeons was when the story was at its best. They're just hitting random people, like actual Thieves. After that everyone just acts like a stupid retard which is handwaved by the holy grail turning everyone into a stupid retard.

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>>384006123
I've had this idea for a while that ATLUS could do pseudo-palaces in Mementos. I disagree that Palaces should crumble after a heist is done, they could've had ways of inserting new optional fights and what-have-you like dungeons worked in Persona 4. Anyhow I digress, for Persona 5 they could have Palaces that didn't flesh out properly as real ones outside of Mementos Depth. Their hosts aren't super strong enough to break free completely but they're not pushovers like the Mementos request bosses. This lets ATLUS introduce mini-dungeons every so often and would motivate people to go into Mementos instead of binge doing everything with Mishima's requests. They could also make them NG+ affairs which lets them become brutally hard, this prevents new players from encountering them in the first place, and the DLC update would require a restart but carries over NG+ bonuses so you could do them all at low level if you wanted to.

>>384006563
That's nice but let's get back to what I said.

The MAIN PLOT POINT of P5 is that everyone is a stupid retard. Is this the best they could do after 10 years of development? What is wrong with them?!

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>>384006747
Game was in active development in 2011. Took them 5 years to release it. The 10 year development is a forced meme. They could have released it in 2015 but the precious PS4 isn't backwards compatible and they had to waste one literal year on the PS4 version.

>The MAIN PLOT POINT of P5 is that everyone is a stupid retard.

Citation needed. Not counting Ryuji.

Goro is a fucking idiot for not just killing you in Sae's Palace.

Why does he even need to change her heart to begin with? Just kill off Joker instead of going through all of that work.

>>384007067
Because he wanted to be the detective that finally caught the phantom thieves. At that point their popularity was low and people turned on them. If Akechi just killed Joker in the casino, he couldn't get any recognition. But by turning them into the police and claiming Joker commit suicide, that makes Akechi look like a good detective.

>>384007752
Why couldn't he?
>I was in a firefight with the leader of the Thieves and I had to shoot him dead to protect myself

>>384008315
He's still a just a teenager. I don't remember him ever having a gun in the game, and when he shoots Joker in the police station, he takes the gun from a guard.
Also, it's not like he was alone with Joker. Even if later on the team says "oh yea you would have won...." it's still a big risk to kill Joker and not expect the entire team to just destroy him right there.

>>384008783
Groo almost certainly has a gun. The other "Detective Prince", Naoto, was packing heat all the time.

And there was plenty of opportunities for him to be alone with Joker. Like he was for a large chunk of the game.

>>384009017
Almost certainly, except that you never see him ever have one. And if he almost certainly has a gun, why then in the police station of all places would he not have his own gun?
Anyway he wanted attention. He wants to be recognized as the best detective because of his daddy issues. What looks better? Oh I failed to capture him and had to kill him to save myself! Or I successfully managed to capture a criminal and put him in prison. Pretty obvious

>>384007067
>Goro is a fucking idiot
Agreed.
>for not just killing you in Sae's Palace.
Nah, he still wanted the fame and the boost to Shido's popularity. He was and idiot for not capturing the rest of the PT or at least keeping an eye on them just like he said.

>>383996173
If he was basically just guy Naoto (AKA not evil and genuinely seeking justice) he would have been great.

>>384009252
God he's such shit

>>383997083
But that's wrong.

>>384009345
This.

Keep him as Shido's son, but make it so they've never had any contact prior.

>>384009351
Oh absolutely. I'm not disagreeing with you at all here. If he wasn't so obsessed with getting attention maybe he would stop to think for a moment and could actually win.

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If we got time with him after Yaldabaoth's fight where he was fleshed out more and why he enacted his retarded plan in the first place, that would definitely improve things, also maybe you go into Akechi's own palace he has because he has the wild card and thus can have a palace ( or some such). Would give you a chance to use all your endgame Personas more as well.

>>384009885
>Persona 5 Crimson adds an Akechi palace between Sae and Shido
In a perfect world...

>>384009404
The twist depends on skipping certain conversations which is supposedly caused by the drugs. It's pretty cheap, especially considering that the game switches narrators throughout the game to give you a clearer picture about what's going on, but then decide to withhold information to make the twist work.

>>384002789
>Both of you are genuinely mentally challenged if you thought Haru had any flags to be the traitor.
I didn't say I thought she was going to be. I said she SHOULD have been. The story would have been better. You're the one with reading comprehension problems you stupid fuck.

>>384006747
>The MAIN PLOT POINT of P5 is that everyone is a stupid retard.

No. The primary theme has always been that people who are evil and have power take power away from everybody below them, and that it's your job as a bunch of rebels and misfits to rob them of that power. The primary plot elements are almost 1:1 with the theme, however your party are inexperienced kids trying to battle mostly unaware adults in a mysterious alternate dimension

If god plot doesn't happen in that way, sure. If not, he is just someone insane, with silly excuses like "I wish I met you before all of this".
Funny is how protag doesnt mind to talk with him. Akechi even tells his story about how his father was a dick and left his mom because she was pregnant, at some random talk at Leblanc in the summer or so.

>>384004358
Why not pull a phantom thieves esque shit.
Just kill off his political party members and leave cryptic warnings about what he did to "that woman".