ITT: homosexual characters done right

you start, op

>>383840412
>homosexual
>done right

>>383840412
there are no others. every other attempt is people thinking gay is a personality trait

>>383840692
What about Veronica?

>>383840813
also decent though i enjoyed running into her ex and evidence of her adventures in big mt over veronica herself

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>writer declares character is LGBT through twitter
I hate this shit, it's lazy pandering without the balls to actually put it in the game. Pic related, she's "genderqueer" whatever that means

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>>383840692
But Arcade is a sassy effete gay man.

I nominate pic related.

picture of a corpse.jpg

>>383840412
This shit was so forced.

>>383841393
He was too fucking evil for the sake of being evil.

His epilogue was terrible as well. I feel he could have been done better.

But I agree nonetheless.

>>383841393
He was a shit character but not because of his gayness, so points for effort

GREAT PAPILLON

>>383841294

>non natural hair color
>stronk womyn
>ear plugs

how could xir be anything but a snowflake

>>383841294
>black
>spearchucker
what the fuck

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Valvatorez and Fenrich were really cute together in their game.

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Tracer, of course

The only good gay characters are the ones that you don't know are gay.

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>>383840412

>>383842619
Unironically she's not that bad, ingame there's nothing that would tell you she's a lesbo, but then again she also isn't all that well written in general either.

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also Zangief?

>>383840412
i don't understand why people think having a gay character is a big deal and is something that's worth bringing attention to 2bh

>>383842693
The only good gay characters are the ones rotting in a ditch. Kill all faggots

>>383842693
That's because you're a homphobe lad.

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>>383840412
Wait, what? Arcane is gay?

>>383842943
The only reason we care about well written gay characters is because if they are well written the fact that they're gay isn't brought into attention
>>383843047
Exactly

Arcade is a good character because he has a tragic yet believable backstory, his character arc that the player helps push him through is actually interesting, and he has a unique personality. The fact that he's gay is more of an afterthought, yet still has some weight into who he is as a person.
I wish I could say most gay people are like this but it doesn't really seem that way

>>383842943
I didn't get it either until a gay friend explained it to me. Imagine growing up seeing gay characters on TV and movies the way they used to be depicted, either evil perverts or comic relief perverts. It'd be hard not to be upset about it after a while. Then when you do find a positive gay character of course you're going to make a big deal. It's just a shame marketers ruined it

gay characters are so easy to write, you dont need to point out their gay in the main plot, make it a little text easter egg or some shit.

>>383842619
>done right
>safety gay option by Blizzard after them teasing the presence of a homo in the OW cast
"No"
If they'd made Soldier 76 or Reinhardt gay, that would've been something
making cute girls lesbians is such an easy out that it's not legitimately a good thing

>>383840568
>>383841401
>>383843029
Explain now how the world would be better off without
>Leonardo Da Vinci,
>Alan Turing,
>Yukio Mishima,
>Michelangelo,
>Alexander the Great,
>Tchaikovsky,
>Bayard Rustin
>Aaron Copland

>>383840813
>Felicia Day
No.

>>383841119
This.

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>>383840412
Any others are wrong.

>>383843878
You wouldn't be making a shitty faggot post

All gay characters are done right


Who are you for everyone to confirm your standards?

>>383843789
Fucking bara fags, get out

God, this one guy who hates F:NV is really upset today. What is this, your 5th thread or something?

>>383844405
So the most flamboyant, inaccurate, offensive and out of place portrayal of a gay man is fine with you because you get more """"representation"""" in the media? That's fucking retarded.

>>383841294
That's what Valve's TF2 comic writer did, he said Ms. Pauling was a lesbo on twitter. Poor Scout.

>>383844692
There is nothing wrong with being flamboyant

You know alot here want their gays to be non-sexual, mute, submissive, anything but feminine

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>>383840412
This is how all gays should be done in all stories.

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>>383840412

Julius Belmont

>>383841540
No it wasn't, he hints at it but never goes beyond that unless you took the "Confirmed Bachelor" perk, the one that literally shows you in bed with another Vault boy holding a knife that some people hilariously thought were just two bros hanging out

Most of his character was focused on the Enclave and the flaws he saw in the different factions

>>383844140
he's not gay tho.

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>>383845015
>gays in children's media

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>>383842765

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>>383843029
I'd rather kill the retarded christfags who've been btfo by science so many times they deny shit their own holy book says.

>>383841119
fuken bill
what a guy

>>383843878
They were all straight. Fuck off with your regressive revisionism. Niggers were never kings either.

>>383845450
Isn't he like 10 fucking years old?

>>383845945


>implying

>>383843878
>Da Vinci
Striaght
>Turing
Took credit
>Yukio Mishima
literal nobody
>Michelangelo
Straight
>Alexander the Great
What did he invent?
>Tchaikovsky
What did he invent?
>Bayard Rustin
Literal nobody, also a nigger
>Aaron Copland
Jew.

>>383846050

>bible talks about ozone long before science discovers it

>bible talks about the similarity in composition between the atmosphere and water long before science discovers it

>bible talking about apocalyptic scenarios long before sci-fi writers talk about them

>bible discusses positioning of the Earth in space and axial rotation long before science discovers it

Yeah, I bet Christfags are real mad at you

>>383843041
I'm actually a faggot myself, thank you very much.

>>383844350
He was bi. Fucked Eva and Raikov.

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There is a problem with gay characters in videogames. Also in television and film, but not quite as bad.

People will often claim to have absolutely no problem whatsoever with gay people. They say this to make sure that they cannot be called a homophobe or be criticised in any way when they make their next point.
Then they basically say they don't want gay characters in their games.
Then the excuses come out.
>it's not important
So why does it bother you?
>I don't care about any of the relationships in my games, I just want games!
A little autistic, but okay. I can agree with that, games should be games. However, if a story-driven game like an RPG has a gay character in it, why does that irk you?
>it's just pandering to the LGBT crowd
This isn't fair. You can always just call it pandering and keep gay characters out of fiction forever that way. You can't tell me you don't have a problem with homosexuals if you want to pretend they don't exist.
>I'm okay with gay characters as long as it never gets mentioned
Well then you're not REALLY okay with gay characters, are you?
>the gay characters are always written really badly!
That's the secret, Anon. All videogame characters are written badly.

If your cocky male teammate jokes about having slept with 5 women the night before, you wouldn't think twice. If your cocky male teammate jokes about having slept with 5 men the night before, you're irked by that. Why?

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>>383846532
>Bible talks about how the ocean was split in half and half of it levitates which is why the sky is blue
Pretty much yeah. A fine example is the amount if headcanon that the Bible never mentions you had to put in your post.

>>383846258
>They were all straight.
>Alan Turing
>Yukio Mishima

You're a fucking putz, mate

>>383840412
/v/ is almost entirely gay, most aren't done right though.

>>383846258
\

Thanks for posting this.

I came here to post this.

I hate how they make all these characters have homosexual tendancies. Like in that recent chess movie, or the one about the enigma machine, or even the one about alan turing, and stuff.

>>383844930

>>383845015
>>383845224

i hate this too.

sesame street and lesbian adopting parents and gay boyscout leaders are brainwashing kids from a young age and i cant do anythign about it.

lol

>>383846958

> half and half of it levitates which is why the sky is blue

Do you know the makeup of the atmosphere, anon? Do you know how much water is in the atmosphere? Do you know how clouds work?

I don't mind you getting mad at Christians, but please know SOMETHING about natural science..

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Better question.
Should video game characters have any sexual preference if it's not relevant to the plot?

>>383841401

good one bro ebin!!!

>>383846880

Is the game about sexual intercourse and relationships? If yes then be gay as you like.

If no, then it's really not important to the game.

>>383847165
>or the one about the enigma machine, or even the one about alan turing,
Surely you must be joking
I refuse to believe that you are as stupid as this

>>383845472
what game

Give me one good reason to hate gays WITHOUT saying "it's unnatural" or "it's disgusting."

>>383847494
I'm gay and think it's probably okay to hate half or a little more of all gays
Heavy pride parades do nothing but fill me with intense disgust and revulsion even if I can understand the thought behind it

>>383847494
Most gays are objectively awful people with no ambitions and horrible lifestyle choices.
t. gay anon

>>383843878
Alexander doesn't count as gay. Everyone was fucking boys back then.

>>383846258
>>383846509

>T-they were straight! The historical evidence is contrived!

and let me guess, god only buried dinosaur fossils everywhere to test our faith? Does the existence of extremely important, provably homo historical figures trigger your cognitive dissonance? I might dislike conservatives but I wouldn't be so retarded to deny the existence of great conservative people.

>Asking what Tchaikovsky invented

only a number of masterworks capable of being exonerated by millions. But keep shitposting on 4chan, maybe one day you'll even convince yourself you're right.

>>383847725
>provably homo historical figures

I'm listening. Prove it.

>>383847607
My girlfriend and I are both bi and pride disgusts us as well. It's fucking infuriating that THAT has become the face of "us" even though we never fucking voted

Doug Stanhope said it best
>"If I know your sexuality in the first 30 seconds of meeting you, you’re fucking annoying."

It's almost like defining yourself by where you prefer to shove your genitals is shallow

>>383847625
Honestly this. I have no fucking idea why it is. I have no problem with who you love or how you get off but for some reason that alludes me most gays are the biggest assholes (pardon the pun) in the world. It seems like half of the gay community are the biggest bros in the world and the other half are just flat out cunts.

>>383841134
>running into her ex
Christine is not Veronica's lover. Their stories conflict with one another stating that Veronica's lover left because of her parents and Christine was forced to separate from hers by Elijah.

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>>383840412

>>383840692
>Obsidian shill this delusional

Plenty of games have gay characters that have small references to them being gay instead of being in your face.

The Last of Us: Bill has gay porn magazines.

Deus Ex Mankind Divided: Jim Miller has a picture of his husband at his apartment.

Fallout 4: That dude in Far Harbor that simply mentions his husband died after you save his life.

>>383847607
>>383847625
These points can be dismissed by realizing that most people in general are shitty, so naturally gay people aren't exempt.

>>383842896
Blizzard writing has been terrible for years, so it's no surprise they'd underperform on OW too.

>>383847214
Can you deflect any harder. Where in the Bible does it ever mention atmospheric composition? I can tell you where it shows a snake capable of human vocalization but I don't recall any chemistry lectures.

It never said any of that shit. It very clearly says god cut the ocean in half and it's levitating above us. That would, amoung other things, imply the chemical compisition is the fucking same and it ain't. There's water in the atmosphere, the atmosphere is not literally made of water. Second the Bible is clear this ocean is above us not at us it's clearly not talking about the air.

Wait let me guess "s-stop nitpicking"

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All these pretentious shits who think that if a gay character even mentions once or acts slightly gay, then they aren't "done right". there's flamboyant flamers running around the real world, why would they be out of place in a video game containing aliens and zombies

When you stop being idiots and realize that there's all types of people in this world, there are people that will annoy you, and do stupid shit, and act dumb for no reason in the real world. It's completely acceptable and logical that video games and movies would also have characters that do this, it doesn't make them poorly written.

There's no "right" way to create a character. every story is a piece of art and it's completely subjective. What makes a good story, is the STORY. what happens in the world and what the director shows you and the ideas presented to you. characters are the spices that mix it up.

>>383847953
And do these other shitty people hold parades for their sexual orientation wearing extremely flagrant and inappropriate clothing

>>383847893

Their sexual identity, and in many cases, their whole identity revolves around power dynamics. it's a REALLY damaging community.

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>>383846258
>Alexander the Great was straight

Hoo boy.

>>383848028
Abso-fucking-lutely.

>>383841401
>Too pussy to take a ban

Fucking spooked faggot

>>383847985

Why would a book from the 3rd century use the same terms as books from the 16th?

Shit, we don't even use the same terms as Victorian scientists, today. That's why we don't have many Alienists running around, but we have plenty of Psychiatrists.

>>383848238
I'm not anti-religion or anti-christianity but you're being fucking ridiculous and falling into really dishonest fundamentalist pits

>>383847985
>and it's levitating above us.

anon confirmed for not knowing what clouds are

>>383848329
That way you can kiss them without them running away, right?

>>383847776
I won't type a fucking essay bro. Look through Wikipedia citations.

De Vinci had little to no relationships with women, had erotic male drawings in his sketchbooks, and had a sodomy charge pressed early on. For such a reclusive individual you have to extrapolate a little, but even here its obvious. Michelangelo was more or less the same but he may have been bisexual?

I don't have to mention shit about Turing or Mishima, Thaikovsky or Copland because its fucking obvious.

Are you actually trying to tell me that a competent individual being gay is not believable? Go outside. form your beliefs based on logic, not what fucking /pol/ and the media tell you, they're just echo chambers that reinforce your obvious confirmation bias.

>>383847995
The right way of doing it is to make it unimportant because being gay is not what defines most gay people. The wrong way to do it is the Anthony Burch style.

>>383847308

Not the guy you answered to, but how exactly do you justify that in any game built around story/characters in any game that isn't aimed at very young kids (aka pretending everybody is asexual, and even then I'd argue that can be problematic).

If there is gonna be romance, if there's gonna be affectionate or more links between characters then you can't just go and pretend "WELL let's not define any sexual orientation to any of those characters because that doesn't matter". We're trying to emulate the real world to some extent here, the real world is heavily sexualized.

Anyway, I'll join the rest of the crowd by saying that A LOT of gays are extremely shallow and dumb, like surprisingly so. As I've ventured in the gay world, I really got surprised by how ANYBODY can be gay. I always thought a certain type of people would end up this side of the fence, but no, it's as if any body and any personality just rolls a dice. It's actually pretty crazy, but as everything and everybody, you only see the loud (vocally, visually or otherwise) minority.

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Unironically the best written faggot in all of vidya.

>>383848478
>problematic

>>383848020
Have you seen an Orange Walk?

>>383848442
>Look through Wikipedia
lool litterally retarded fuck off stupid

>>383848028

Hey, I'm bi and what do you mean by power dynamics? (not native)

>>383848020
Those specific things aren't the only qualifiers for someone being a shitty person. Most shitty people are straight and since theres no straight pride parades, they have to act shitty in more day to day scenarios.

>>383848083
The Romans fucking each other in the ass is jew propaganda to normalize fags

>>383848442

>I won't type a fucking essay bro.

then stop writing checks that sweet ass can't cash

>>383847467
fear effect

>>383848140
Yeah sorry for not having a picture of a corpse, like I give a fuck.

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I'm pretty sure the entire cast was gay and tsundere for each other. Callo even comments about Sydney's followers (of both genders) offering themselves to him.

The only females in the cast are quickly written into the background or ultimately killed off

>>383848442
>it's real cause I say it is!

No, faggot. Suck on a fucking exhaust pipe.

>>383848617
fucking pussy

>>383840412
Can we end this meme already?

>>383844930
>There is nothing wrong with being flamboyant

I find it annoying in person, but I agree. Some guys are naturally flamboyant and can't help it. Should they never receive any kind of representation in the media because it makes some people uncomfortable?

>>383846880
>If your cocky male teammate jokes about having slept with 5 men the night before, you're irked by that. Why?
Because I can tell it was actually seven by the dick breath.

>>383848543

The gay community is SOLELY based on alphas and betas. bitches and butches. givers and receivers. pitchers and catchers.

Everything about it springs from your identity as one of the two, or where you stand in between. Whether you have the power in the relationship, or whether you accept it. There's no equality to it, so you end up with overly aggressive dudebro types who flaunt their power physically, and passive aggressive bitches who flaunt their power through societal means.

>>383848708
>it's real cause I say it is!
Whoa, why are you bringing God into this?

>>383848768
>naturally flamboyant and can't help it
no

>>383845224

>gay kids don't exist

All gay people were children at some point. They didn't emerge from the womb as fully grown adults.

>>383840412
>homosexual
The power of Christ compels you.

>>383844130
Venom is a pretty cool guy, I'm glad he got a happy ending in Rev2's epilogue. I hope we get Baker Venom as an alternate costume in a future version.

>>383848852
yes buy they werent gay untill the media indoctrinated them

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>>383844692
Psychologically, if you saw a faggot portrayed as something that was truly far removed from how any gay individuals behave, your reaction would probably not be anger. It would probably be incredulity and amusement. You'd be nonplussed.
The fact that you're angry shows that you're aware that the fictionalfag who's triggering you has some ties to real world examples, and it's just that you're upset that a number of uninitiated anons are going to view this trope, accept it as more common that you wish it was, and then view the world through the lens of that assumption. An assumption that may or may not be incorrect, because neither I nor you nor this hypothetical anon truly know the sum of 7.5 billion individuals. So calm the fuck down faggot.
Also it's just media. I'm sorry of some devs presented a view that doesn't align with yours. Your opinion is no more valid than theirs and they actually put in work.
Fictional characters.
Fictional. Characters.

/v/ - Repressed Homosexual Tendencies

>>383848931
>media

Lal

>>383848931
Aw man that sucks. Do you have any evidence that that's what's at play here?

>>383848028
>not totally lacking in self awareness
Do you realize where you are?

>>383848931
Just like video games make kids shoot up schools.

>>383844140

Kanji isn't any kind of gay representation. Persona's writers seem virulently against this. Kanji's implied "homosexuality" is just a manifestation of his self-perceived weakness. (The writers are conflating homosexual behavior with being emasculated, hence why it manifests in such a caricaturized way)

I'm pretty sure P5 didn't have any gay options, either. Persona is written by prudes.

>>383848931
Shame "the media" didn't get you too desu

>>383849058

/v/ has power over you? wew

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>>383848445
>Being gay can't define someone.

why not? what is your objective reasoning? Why can collecting stamps define someone? or playing video games? or being a ladys man? but being gay can't?

There's characters who are defined by there lust for women, Brock from pokemon, Johnny Bravo. How come it's suddenly different when it's a homosexual.

it's seem to me like you've trained yourself to say that "being gay can't be what defines them"

you don't know what makes a good character and you're parroting other ignorant opinions from idiots

>>383849072
yeah, thanks for fighting the good fight with me my friend

>/v/ - gender studies

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>>383842765

>>383849196
>why not? what is your objective reasoning? Why can collecting stamps define someone? or playing video games? or being a ladys man? but being gay can't?

Because none of those can define someone, except for lady's man which to a small extent sets you up for how that person is going to act

>>383848585
Nice deflection man. Stay here, I'll spend an hour typing up all the proof that's already readily available from any search engine so I can change your mind :-)

>>383848806

It's kind of funny how in your description my first reaction is not to picture a shallow gay couple, but the dynamics in a generic straight couple, with a dumb guy and a shallow girl.

I suppose the dynamics change just as much in an "educated" (or whatever you wanna call it) couple, be it gay or straight?

It sounds so exhausting to always be in one side of a dynamic like you said, just want a cool bf to play vg and listen to music with :(

Who else former faggot here?
Never acted on my urges, and now I'm back to being normal. Feels good.

>>383848329

So why haven't you killed yourself yet, then?

>>383848708
G O O G L E

>>383848478

>how exactly do you justify that in any game built around story/characters in any game that isn't aimed at very young kids

Well, most games aren't reflections of the world at large, but microcosms within it, and the focus is very rarely on sexual relationships within that microcosm. I can't think of many, to be honest.

>>383847218
>Should video game characters have any sexual preference if it's not relevant to the plot?

How is any such thing ever relevant to the plot? It's arbitrary. It's like giving a character gray eyes and then someone complaining that the character's eye color isn't justified by the plot because gray eyes are an uncommon trait. Who the fuck cares. Writers should be able to put whatever exceptions they want into their character designs.

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>>383848569

>>383849196
>it's seem to me like you've trained yourself to say that "being gay can't be what defines them"
I feel like this is the case for a lot of those "common sense" truthisms /v/ likes to trot out about any given subject.

>>383848931
i bet my bottom dollar that a media news outlet told you to think that the MSM turns kids gay

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Furfag jokes aside he was pretty realistic.

He never talked about homosexuality until the end of the games, he had interests and hobbies and thoughts, and he wasn't ready to just jump in your pants first chance.

>>383848806
that's pretty much an encapsulated version of straight people though.
Men and women are not equal, and never bill be. You're basicaly taking who the entire world works and how it has always worked and acting like there's a new environment that is in any way different, just because one of the women is actually a dude.
I've seen gay couples growing up, young and not imprinted on by this larger encapsulated community you refer to. One takes on a masculine role and one takes on a feminine role, regardless of who's pushing rope. It just happens. Someone has to hunt and someone has to tend to the young and nobody can do both because you either starve or lose your offspring.

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>>383849186
>all of the people I don't like are the same
>I know this to be true because my imageboard friends told me so

>>383846301
he was all like i want to be your wife Nier but got shut down damn fast

>>383849324
I can't imagine why anyone would willingly want to be straight.

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>>383847725
Fedora Tipper or not Dinosaurs aren't real bluepilled cuck

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5KXzgeq1BuA

>>383849305
In heterosexual relationships, there are predictable dynamics that consistently emerge due to biological differences between the two members of the relationship. In a homosexual relationship you're very often looking at two people who, biologically/psychologically, are the same when it comes to sexual behaviors.

I think they therefor feel the need to FORCE some kind of man/woman, dom/sub, leader/follower relationship. That can work beautifully I'm sure, but a lot of the time they become so fixated on it that it's pretty much all they become

>>383848931
The "media" has been heternormative throughout history and for most of it, out right homophobic. Only recently have things looked any different.

>>383849196
People (and characters by extension) that define themselves using things they can't control like race and sexuality are boring and shallow as fuck. Actions and beliefs are far more interesting than 'I'm gay!'

the only thing making this more amusing to me is that the gays/bis are arguing against the gays and the straights are trying to defend them
this is great

>>383847607
>pride

But how is it fair to hold the entire LGBT community collectively responsible for this? They're not one person. They don't all condone the existence of gay pride, much less can they do anything about it.

That's like blaming heterosexuals for degenerate behavior at Mardi Gras or Burning Man. I'm sure there are plenty of straight people who don't endorse this.

Goddamn do I hate fags.
Why the fuck are there so many on /v/? I thought the whole "/v/ is gay" thing was just a meme, but the fags on here are fucking relentless. What gives?

>>383849505
>>383849551
Relates to your post too

>>383849558
Nice blanket statement.

>>383847494
>give me a good reason without good reason
Every faggot should be executed, everyone in this thread who defends them should be executed.

>>383849287
Do you have a picture of Da Vinci fucking someone in their poop shoot? Cause if not.... well then... I think your done here

>>383847494
Jealousy.

>>383849641
Nice response proving me wrong : )

>>383849305

Well, yeah, i'm not saying it can't exist in hetero relationships, too..but in hetero relationships the power dynamics are richer and more varied, rather than only having 2 variables. A dumb guy and shallow girl might seem to favour the guy until she gets knocked up, and then everything changes, for instance. Dynamics are independent of learning..they're natural. We can't learn out way out of mortality, either..

I'm not gay..i'm barely heterosexual, to be honest, so maybe my opinion counts for little. It's just observation. Lesbian couples are the worst, because they're not used to having one partner need to be physical, and it leads to violence in SO many cases.

Like..a retarded amount of lesbian couples are unhealthy abusive relationships. But you'll never hear of it, because it's such a touchy political subject.

>>383849641
He's right though
>>383849558
You're right

>>383849659
Take your psychosis meds, future serial killer.

>>383849276
>except for ladys man
why not a mans man?

you have no logic, you're just a bigot and you're trying to spread it under the guise of "good writing" or whatever.

Small things can define a character in certain stories, it depends on how it's being told. not all stories are made the same. for instance look at Mr Krabs from spongebob, his one consistant trait as a character is that he is greedy, and all of his actions are dictated by that. it works because he's in a cartoon

>>383849537
You will NEVER have biological children.

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>>383848815

You dont want characters to be defined by their sexuality but Rance's MO of wanting to fuck every woman in japan gets a free pass? Or how duke nukem is sometime surrounded by a few slags

The double standards

>>383849785
Nobody in this thread deserves to have their genetics passed down

>>383849689
I can't prove the boring strawman you just made up on the spot wrong, yes. That's how logical fallacies work, you didn't argue anything right either.

>>383849373

Well you got me confused now, you're talking about "sexual relationship" I don't know exactly what you're referring to. Should you have gay sex in your run of the mill RPG? I dunno, do you want to have sex in your game? If so sure, why not.

I'm not talking about sex though, I'm talking about regular old relationships. Just like any well written game (and I'll be the first to say that they don't exactly travel in herds) won't use sex to say "OH LOOK THEY FANCY EACH OTHER", there's more subtle way to communicate attraction.

>>383849605

>But how is it fair to hold the entire LGBT community collectively responsible for this? They're not one person. They don't all condone the existence of gay pride, much less can they do anything about it.

That's why the granfalloon is a bad idea

>>383849794
Not even an atheist desu, it just seemed like an amusing thing to say.

>>383849785
Why the fuck would I want kids?

Straight people exist to do that bullshit for me.

>>383849196
Being straight doesn't define most people. If I was gay, I would still like video games, eat pizza, watch movies. I guess the big difference is that I would fap to gay shit and check out guys.

>>383848620
The women last longer than the guys though. Because of the direction of the game, it being a solo dungeon crawler, Callo isn't with you, but she isn't some damsel in distress, she's doing her job even in captivity, she being an Inquisitor for the VKP and all. Neesa survives the whole game, and Samantha doesn't die until the very end, when his bf goes power crazy and uses her death for his power. Ashley's wife Tia died long ago but he's agonizing over her death still, and if it wasn't for that part of the story, he could be completely asexual.

>>383848931
I hate to break it to you, but kids meet gay kids at school. They exist, they're a part of the world. That's just how it is.

>>383849778
>you're just a bigot
What

Buddy, I'm on the pro-gay character side. I'm just saying that none of those tell you much about an individual's personality, with the exception of the "lady's man." You can expect them to be charming, suave, and sexually/socially confident

>>383849661
Do you have a picture of Da Vinci fucking someone in their vagina? Cause if not.... well then... I think your done here

No but actually, there are no erotic drawings of women in da vincis sketchbooks. his proteges and friends were all guys and he had a sodomy charge.

>>383848445
Goddamn is everyone projecting in this thread? People pick. Don't get grumpy because people don't like the same things as you. I grew up resenting the stupid guido girls who were all about being italian despite not hailing from italy nor being more than 50% italian in most cases. They were american bitches, but try telling them that. Still, they have every right to explain their behavior through some perceived identity, and nobody who speaks of them can say 'this is how things are with them' because we're all individuals, shit is mercurial. grow the fuck up.

>>383849058
>>383849186
>>383849506
Can't it be that he knows where he is and the obvious parallels to this place can be used to illustrate the concepts he's speaking of? Or is identifying fallacies such a valuable currency here that you're trying to score points for pointing them out even when they arent relevant?

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>>383849926
If you're white because the white race is dying and you should want to save it.

>>383849854
You don't know what strawmen are
And you've fallen into the fallacy fallacy, the fallacy where just because something is a fallacy you assume it's wrong. You suck bro.

>>383849785
>gay people are physically incapable of having kids
You know it's possible for some gays to recognize the importance of passing on their genes, and taking steps to make sure it happens, right?

>>383849998
Then get to breeding, slave.

>>383848569
hard kek here

>>383849801
Duke Nukem was a caricature of the archetypal hyper-masculine action hero. It was supposed to be over the top. You could do the same thing with the opposite kind of person although no developer would, seeing how much shit they would get for it

>>383849985

>Can't it be...

Trying to score points in an anonymous thread that will last for 20 minutes seems like a futile pursuit, to me.

>all these faggots defending faggotry

Whites are doomed.

>>383849951
I said you're a bigot under the guise of wanting good writing. and you proved me right.

You don't like gay people and you want less of them in games. but in order to avoid being called a bigot you say things like "Buddy, I'm on the pro-gay character side." even though you don't want them

You're trying to be a bigot without being called out on being a bigot, and it's not working.

>>383849801
Duke Nukem is a joke character, he's two-dimensional on purpose and it's played off as a joke.
The recent influx of gay characters are written seriously. They're shallow but they don't have the funny element. They're meant to be taken seriously and it just falls flat. If there was a sex addicted gay dude played for laughs because he's meant to be one dimensional, that would be fine.

>>383850104

>if you defend it you're a faggot

I hate this argument. It's literally the same as: "hate gays? Oh, you must be a repressed gay!"

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>>383850065
I would but white womens standards have risen to unrealistic levels so I can't get a white girlfriend and had to go to asia to get a vietnamese girlfriend and I don't feel like raping white women.

>>383850147
I'M FUCKING GAY, DUDE
You are the worst fucking kind of person, holy shit

>>383848931
>yes buy they werent gay untill the media indoctrinated them

I'm pretty sure I was always into dudes. Even when I couldn't define things like sexual orientation, I didn't understand why boys and girls were constantly paired together and not boys and boys. I was a really devout Christian growing up as well. Tried to "pray the gay away" and all that shit. You are who you are and that's all there is to it.

>>383850147
And I'm also clearly not who you think I am
>>383849276 was my first post in this thread

>>383850081
https://youtu.be/_BXw4CxNkaE

Gay characters shouldn't exist because it's too political and they can never be realisitic as a result of that. They can only be too-perfect happy families, full of love and devotion.

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>>383840412
>How it should be: See character there? They are gay
>How it is:See character there? They are gay and isnt that wonderful/terrible its so progressive that we're giving the spotlight to a gay character right? Lets keep talking about how wonderful/terrible it is that this person is gay.

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Just curious what was wrong with Dorian?

I'm gay and hated Anders in DA2, and went in expecting to hate Dorian, but he was pretty cool.

I felt that he act like the typical Tevintar mage than a flaming homo. I still wish they made him a blood mage tho.

>>383849762
Hang yourself

>>383850104
>implying nignogs can't be gay
>implying a big enough percentage of whites are homosexual that it would destroy a race (like 1% or less)

you are just flat out dumb.

and a quick google search instantly brought up a study done that with results claiming that whites are less likely to be gay than other races, you wouldn't believe how many hispanics are gay bro

>>383850380
I'm not the one who has homicidal (and probably suicidal) urges.

>>383848931
>media invented being gay


Yes LGBT would stop multiplying if we destroyed every form of media like TV, mags, news and internet


:)

>>383850243
>complain about a problem
>do nothing to help solve it

Wow.

>>383850358
>How it is:See character there? They are gay and isnt that wonderful/terrible its so progressive that we're giving the spotlight to a gay character right? Lets keep talking about how wonderful/terrible it is that this person is gay.

Name ONE (1) game that does this.

>>383850326
I think this is fucking hilarious and I'm all for it, I just know that any developer would get throat fucked by the media if they did it in this day and age

I'm hoping that isn't the case at some point soon

>>383844930
Yes, being flamboyant is fucking stupid, annoying and a good way to know that person is attention seeker. Does it really take that much effort to behave like a normal fucking person?

>>383850247

Not this guy, just been following along.

I'm torn on this issue now. I feel like.... Sure maybe you're right, you don't need it to build their personality as a character?

But I still want them in so... I suppose I want representation? Or just to be pandered with because I like guys? Yeah mostly the second one I suppose, don't really care about being represented, I just want to see gay dudes :/

>>383850247
>>383850323


two responses from one post.
somebody isn't who they claim to be.

>>383850463
WatchDogs2 comes to mind.
Gone Home too.

>>383840412
I always taught this guy was asexual.

>>383849778
The logical conclusion of your argument is that the character has to have a a good reason for being gay, or the fact that they're gay should be an integral part of the character which is everything wrong with character design. Why can't a character just be gay and that's it? Does Arcade have to suck someone off right before you meet him in Freeside?

>>383850327
What do you mean by too political?

You could say the same to any STRONG WIMMIN protagonists i guess

>>383850327
>they can only be too-perfect happy families, full of love and devotion
play GTA IV: TBoGT

>>383850457
This but unironically. Communication allows ideological cancers like homosexuality to spread.

>>383850021
Who the fuck has kids for sole purpose of passing on genes? Lol. People just have kids to love and raise them aswell. Just in your case the kids wont be biological. And so people will never say "oh you look just like your dad(s)". Stay cucked by the human reproductive system tho, fagget.

>>383848569
>implying alexander was roman

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>>383850530
Nope, those were both me
I'm just scatterbrained

>>383850482
I'm not even fully sure what we're arguing about anymore but all I know is
>I want good gay characters
>I want developers who aren't afraid to make flawed, realistic gay characters
>a character being gay shouldn't be a good predictor of their in-game personality
>I want a future where it's okay to use stereotypes because they're hilarious

>>383850574

Yes, I would. For the same reasons.

>>383850580

You know, I never got around to that. And Rockstar are really very mature in their handling of these hot-button issues. I love how they keep getting away with telling the hard truths.

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>>383850589
>being gay is an ideology

It feels so good when a retarded conservative shows his colors man. I've been defending the Right for so long against retarded liberals it's good to get back to the classics.

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>>383842246
Gave me a chortle.

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>>383850458
I tried for 5 years straight to get a white girlfriend. Didn't work and if I did get a girlfriend I would have happily had a family with her. Have you even tried? Did more than most. Its not my fault the majority of white women have been fallen for 1960s marxist tactics to lower birthrates.

>>383850360
>sees elves as the lower class cattle that they are
>actually felt like a bro at times

Absolutely nothing was wrong with Dorian.

>>383850674
>the importance of passing on their genes

It's not really that important unless you want to personally feel good.

>>383850081
>caricature

Sadly, no. I'm pretty sure he's actually a self-insert "badass hero." Duke Nukem's writers are just that socially detached.

>>383850674
>Who the fuck has kids for sole purpose of passing on genes?
People who understand the purpose of being alive? If you're not passing on your genes explicitly, you've failed at being a human. The whole "family unit" system is actually detrimental, as it prevents males from further spreading their seed, hampering evolution.

>>383850749
I know this feeling so fucking well my man

>>383850786
It's your responsibility to lower your standards then.

>Have you even tried?

No because I don't give a fuck about your white proportion thing.

>>383850589
>homosexuality is an idea

Kek

>>383850815
That is simply untrue, fella

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>When you forgot to delete that spicy fanfic between you and snake on Mother Bases computer

Ocelot is best gay cat boy.

>>383850749
Being gay absolutely is an ideology, or at least a major part of one, being spread by the media to encourage acceptance of thoughts and lifestyles that will weaken western society.
If you can't see this, you're blind.

>>383850482
Wouldn't matter. 80% of the hot guys in vidya are either straight or up to interpretation.

>>383850589

Lol this post is funny being bigotry is ideological but homosexuality isn't.

To bad we don't have any examples of civilization that would share a lot of cultural modernisms we have today without the high bandwidth communication abilities... Like Ancient Greece or something...

>>383850589
So where did all the faggots come from that existed before the creation of even the radio? Dear god, have the homos mastered time travel?!

>>383850961
we have
everything you know has just changed

>>383850574
>>383850743

Sorry, that was a bit glib. I would say that it's the same for STRONK WIMMINZ, because it is. If we take a game like...I dunno...Nu Tomb Raider, Lara Croft is portrayed really well in it, and it's criticised because she's not STRONK ENUFF. So, what do we end up with? Flawless characters who are too-perfect because the critics don't want realisitic representation. They want a power fantasy. Same with gays. They don't want realism, for the most part. They want an ideal fiction to hold up.

>>383850573
>the fact that they're gay should be an integral part of the character which is everything wrong with character design.

why? you have not provided a logical reason as to why a character can't have a certain trait be integral to them. like I said earlier, you are just parroting that opinion because you don't like gay and need something that sounds smart to express that without getting called out for being homophobic or a bigot.


>Why can't a character just be gay and that's it?

This is another problem with the people here. if a character even so much as mentions there sexuality 1 fucking time. or dresses to flamboyant for there taste, then it's to much for them and they flip out.
If a character in a game was just like "Hey I'm gay dude, end of story" and then carried on the game like normal, you would have /v/tards and /pol/tard complaining about "muh sjw devs!" and "shoving their sexuality down my throat!" shit

your standards on how a gay character is supposed to act and express themselves is WAY to strict.

>>383850980
Ok, serious question here, how many dicks do I have to suck to learn time travel?

>>383850104
>all these faggots defending faggotry

There's more to contributing to society than making babies.

>Whites are doomed

I think you need be more concerned about overpopulation than underpopulation, especially overpopulation in rural white areas where the gene pool is incredibly shallow.

>>383850727

Not sure what you guys were arguing about either, but anyway I'm perfectly on board with all that! Also gotta agree with the guy that posted gay Tony earlier. That shit is amazing, it's exactly what it's meant to be, just a shame when it's unintentional parody :)

>>383851090
Just has to be above 88

>>383850953
I guess we should be like the middle east then. They hate gays and they have amazing militar--- Oh. Well, at least they have high educatio--- Wait. They stone the gays and they have great trade and are a world superpow-- Darn, wrong again. Wanna tell me again how not stoning gays on sight is an ideology that weakens the western world?

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>>383850876
>Its your responsibility to lower standards then. Yeah thing is I did and it still didn't work because some sexual markets have been absolutely fucking vandalized by degeneracy.

I'm not gonna spend 5 years legitimately trying to get a decent woman of my caliber and then just any caliber at all and then it not happen and just fucking give up and throw my genetic future die off when I can go to asia and get a 6/10 asian waifu and even if the white race dies I at least tried as hard as I could to do my part.

You should at least try yours at the race that brought you here in the first place and is responsible for what civilization you have left.

>>383850192
>repressed gay

You mean like all those Republicans who spend most of their free time in airport lavatories soliciting under-stall blowjobs?

>>383851114

>especially overpopulation in rural white areas where the gene pool is incredibly shallow.

Surely YOU should be more concerned about the Asian megacities where people are forced to share beds and live underground in parking lots.

>>383850457
don't forget video games

>>383851215
Stop making excuses.

>>383851160
I got a terrible gag reflex, can I just get fucked in the ass 20 times instead?

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>>383846258
>Niggers were never kings
WHA'CHU TRYNA SAY LIL NIGGA

>>383851274
Sure but that way you go forward in time, not back

What led to so many people having their entire identity/personality revolve around their gender and/or sexual orientation? I don't care if you're gay or trans, just stop reminding me every five minutes.

>>383851248

If outliers were important, then zapping the gay away would be a perfect cure for gayness.

>>383851248
>under-stall blowjobs?
Damn, full splits? How are they that flexible?

>>383850819
The earth is overpopulated as it is. It sure as hell doesn't need 16 mini-me's running around shitting the place up. Id rather have just one I can keep track of, thanks.

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>>383851341
I can live with that.

>>383851191
Islam actually has strong traditional values, it's just their religion that holds them back. If they could look beyond it, they would almost certainly become the dominant power in the world. While that's admirable, we in the western world are already mostly secular, so it is incredibly important that we embrace said traditional values.

>>383851048
Just like all those characters who tell you 'Yeah, I'm straight' before going on adventures with you. Sexuality doesn't matter. Nobody should give a fuck, and they definitely shouldn't give enough of a fuck that it's the first thing they tell you.

'Hey, I'm gay, let's go' is fucking shit.
'Hey, I'm an alchemist who's struggled for acceptance due to my beliefs in this religious totalitarian regime' is fucking great. Him being gay doesn't even matter unless the setting explicitly changes society's perception of him due to his sexuality.

>>383851341
Does nothing happen if you get spit roasted? Or do you cross dimensions?

>>383851271
Just how it is bro

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N0m_GVG3Oxo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zSD36ESQhRw

>>383849119
Persona 2 did have a gay option, and that was back in the 90s.

So did P3P.

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>>383851398
I chuckled

>>383847632
>it's not gay to fap to traps if everyone is doing it

>>383851485
That's how you freeze time. Good for making the moment last forever

>>383851490
Sucks that you're attracted to women then, huh.

>>383851485
What about Double penetration

>>383851420
At least we don't have a situation like in The Forever War by Joe Haldeman, where the government actively encourages homosexuality to ease up on overpopulation. Great book, by the way. It's basically space Vietnam, with a focus on the way culture can so radically change when you come back from war.

>>383850096
I agree completely, i honestly have no idea how it's so easy for people to lose their objectivity.
meanwhile, this thread is about 10% of the world getting mad that 750 million people don't all act the same way.
pretty silly isnt it? i'm gonna go play NeaR:ATomato now, adios.

>>383851525
This is actually correct, though.

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>>383851420
>He believes in the overpopulation meme
>>>/leftypol/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eA5BM7CE5-8

>>383851468
Those traditional values only exist because of the religion. They're not even close to being anywhere near as powerful as the US, and they never will be. Traditional values shouldn't be upheld simply because they're traditional. An old man a long time ago said that eating ham is against God's will, a traditional value that many people don't follow today.

>>383851595

Nice rappin' with you, buddy. Gonna hit up some dark souls III myself.

>>383851619
Thanks for contributing to traffic with your bullshit.

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>>383851472
I was making an example you moron. can you not see my point without picking a part a made up scenario?

You are fully aware that when a gay character shows up in a video game, no matter how well done it is, that mere fact that they are gay gets these fucking retards riled up into saying "sexuality shoved down my throat!" and calling the Devs sjws, cucks, feminists and what not.

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>>383851556
Nah because Asia still exists :^)

>>383851525
It depends on how feminine the penis is anon.

>Feminine penis = not gay
>non-feminine = super gay

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>>383851658
Thanks for not arguing

>>383851381

You latch to whatever you got. Most people do. How would you characterize yourself? VIdeo games, a sport you enjoy, your profession?

Most people struggle to define their identity around something. Defining it around your sexual orientation isn't really that surprising. Same for defining around your sexuality, it just mostly goes unnoticed when that person is straight.

>>383851381
>I don't care if you're gay or trans, just stop reminding me every five minutes.

Stop reminding me of your straightness every five minutes. I don't need a detailed account of every imaginary woman you've banged, yet that's all some guys ever talk about.

>>383840412
>Homosexual
>Done right
But that's not a corpse, anon.

>>383851048
>the people here
We don't matter
Also the best way to make a gay character is through subtle hints like how they interact with other characters and and little hints thrown in there. No one irl just says "I'm gay" out of nowhere

>>383843789
reinhardt being gay would of made him my main. I would charge then scream into the mic "GET ON BOARD THE FAG TRAIN".

>>383851694
Use an example that isn't complete shit to make your points in the future or else you're just going to look like a retard.

Most gay characters are written fucking awfully so a lot of those people are completely justified in the 'shoving it down our throats' even if some take it too far. When I walk into a house and the first line I hear is 'Wow, my wife is so pretty' from a girl and my only responses are 'Yeah, I agree', that's some shit Tyranny pulled and it was enough to pull me out of the game world.

>>383851398
>How are they that flexible?

Google it. Under-stall blowjobs are a popular genre of gay porn.

>>383851619
Overpopulation isn't a myth. It's not just about space to live, it's about space to grow crops, feed livestock to feed those humans. It's about using the environment without bleeding it dry, which is not something we are currently doing now. We're overfishing, we're destroying natural habitats and causing animal extinctions through that. The consequences will come.

That's not to say Western world is the primary reason for overpopulation, though.

>>383851381
All across the board, it's insecure and/or stupid people doing insecure and/or stupid things. Same applies YEAH I'M FUCKING STAAAIIIIGHT guys

>>383849801
Rance is an eroge protagonist. Eroge is porn ergo there is meant to be lots of sex.

There is of course also a whole bunch of gay eroge characters as well, just generally in eroge that is aimed at the audience which likes Yaoi.

>>383851493
>Persona 2 gay option

Wasn't that only implied, though? And what is the option in P3P?

>>383843789
>they didnt make Reinhardt a giant lovable homo
They had ONE job

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>>383840412

>>383851845
There's a difference when a trans person tells you they're trans every five seconds and a straight guy tells you he banged a chick every five seconds. Banging a chick is an action and speaks to the male's virility and ability to seduce a mate; Interesting character traits. And it also speaks to his pride and his dudebroness. A trans person telling you they're trans speaks to their... That's it. It tells you they're trans. Trans and insecure, since they feel the need to tell you over and over again.

>>383851860
He could be. You can kill him, sell him to cannibals, sell him to a violent dictator which will cause him to disembowel himself is protest.

>>383851937
Good thing there's plenty of space to grow crops, and plenty of resources.

>>383852089
Thats called being a chad. No ones like a chad besides other chads.

>>383850358
This is why New Vegas was such a huge relief. Confirmed Bachelor was basically just an alternative to Lady Killer. There was no greater pretense or anything, most people probably never knew it was a thing, they just tucked it into the game as if it wasn't a big deal at all bad or good and handled it maturely. I actually didn't know what Confirmed Bachelor meant at first, I took it for the damage boost, discovering the gay dialogue options was a huge whiplash moment because homosexuality is rarely ever represented straightfaced without being played up in some way.

>>383851860
Nothing is stopping you and the other 10 people who made this joke already from blasting him in the face with a 12 gauge if you want.

>>383852121
>he wants to live in a world of 20 billion people who all get by in commieblocks using food vouchers

>>383851845
Just wanted to let you know im straight
; ^ ) btw that wink wasn't sexual because you know, im straight and shit. See in the electric chair buckuroo. Zap, zap.

>>383852121
>there's plenty of space to grow crops
There's plenty of forests still which can be chopped down to grow crops, and that will probably still work for some time. Shame about animals living in those forests, though.

>>383852089

>Having sex with people is an interesting trait.

Lmao.

>>383840412
there's this person who turns out to be a lesbian in prey, you never actually meet the character but you find out through audio logs which sound like actual conversations

>>383851921
ok. but that's not the problem.
and most video game characters also don't say "i'm gay" out of nowhere


>>383851926
>use an example that isn't complete shit

I'm sorry that you're a total retard and need to have things explained to you like a toddler. my point was understandable, but you have autism and cannot figure it out.

>waahh there was a gay character in my game!

>>383852254
There's a reason prostitution is the timeless profession. A guy who can get a girl in bed of her own volition without using money has something that 80% of males don't.

>>383850953
>If you can't see this, you're blind.
What you actually meant is
>It's my gut feeling but I trust my feelings over facts

>>383843878
Even if they are all homos. We can presume a lot of these figures lived in a time where it was completely unacceptable to be gay, making a gay hedonistic life style impossible for these people. Unlike today

>>383852358
Your point had no basis. If you want to make a statement, you have to back it up, or, again, you look like a fucking idiot when someone tears down your shitty examples. Learn how to get your point across on the internet, join a debate club, just do anything to avoid embarrassing yourself in the future.

>>383852210
>Strawman
>>383852240
Don't worry dude there's more forests and more animals.

>>383852089
>I enjoy hearing others lie about sexual conquests
I'm not sure which is the bigger faggot. The boy pretending to be a man or the man pretending to be a woman.

>>383852478
Enjoyment has nothing to do with it. It's more interesting than someone saying 'My skin is brown' or 'My penis makes me feel bad on the inside.'

>>383852539
>It's more interesting
what even

>>383852368
Unless the average man has 4 children, our population would be rapidly disappearing if that were true

Don't make up statistics to justify your short-comings

>>383852437
>embarrassing yourself on an anonymous image board.

you're still wrong about the previous shit. but god damn you are dumb son.

>>383852089
>trannies

I was pointing out the absurdity of complaining about gayness specifically while giving out completely unsolicited accounts of your sexual history as a straight man.

>Interesting character traits

Yeah, no. I'm really not interested in hearing that. And I have no desire to offer up a detailed account of my sexual history either.

>>383852578
Someone lying about their sexual conquests. It gives you insight into their character, their history, and their motives.

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>>383840412

>>383851381
You'd be surprised how much a person's sexuality can influence their life. Sex is everywhere, especially in the modern age. >>383851845 is a pertinent example. I don't socialize much so I thought it was just an exaggeration but goddamn when I reconnected with some old friends it was at least half of what they talked about. It's very alienating, and frankly most people, even "normal" people, constantly struggle with finding identity and acceptance in the first place, so it's not surprising that many try to take shelter in labels like >>383851836 mentions. It's not all that different from cults, they prey on people who are weak and insecure.

>>383852089
>when a trans person tells you they're trans every five seconds

Anon that means they want your girlcock in their boipussy

>>383840692
It's so perfect. The first time I played the game I didn't even realize until some choice dialogue

>>383852642
It is a useful tool tho. Most people hate chads and they use the "yeah dude I just banged like a cajillion girl's last night" character architype to show arrogance, a negitive character trait which makes people hate a character. And since you hate it so much it definitely works.

>>383852839
I hate the term boipussy. I prefer "boybutt," if only for the alliteration.

>>383852642
You need to seperate what is interesting to you from what is interesting when developing a character. Sexual identity is almost never interesting when developing a character unless they take it to extremes and become caricatures of it.

>>383852192
Did no one ever hear of the term Confirmed Bachelor? Like did no one ever take a basic American History class or something?

>>383846509

>what did Alexander the Great invent?

Western Civilisation.

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>>383844140
You can't be this retarded

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>>383850243
Women are the best justification for being gay presently. When ~50% of the male population are not going to procreate due to future single mothers going after Chads a subset of the male population being homosexual to quench their thirst seems rational even.

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He's probably bi instead of homosexual, but whatevs.

>>383853451
He's good at sucking, that's for sure.

>>383847494
You shouldnt hate anyone anon. Why hate when you can be nice? There needs to be less hate in the world.

>>383840412
>>383842613
>>383843343
>>383845450
All great examples
If their sexuality takes priority over the rest of their character, they're a bad gay character
The only exception is if there were a super flamboyant character who had nothing but corny gay quips like a gay Duke Nukem, but that doesn't exist because people would be offended

>>383843878
The world would have 8 less flaming faggots, for one.

>>383850327
>They can only be too-perfect happy families, full of love and devotion.
That is realistic. Only gays can have happy relationships. Love is an emotion that only exists between men.

>>383853794
And between women and money