Fixing MMOs

>>383740653

>Stop focusing on grinding and cash shops.
>Start focusing on immersion.

oh wait, that's not Jewish enough.

any decent mmo nowadays?
I dont mind if it isnt cutting edge graphics wise.

>>383740787
every single MMO is pay for play farm nowadays

>tfw you'll never play vanilla WoW ever again when it just became popular
>tfw you'll never get that feeling of crossing over into the member's worlds of runescape again

>>383740981

No.

>>383740787
RS3 quests are pretty damn good tho

>>383741065
:(

thanks though.

>1st person
>minimal things like menus, highlighted items, or other non-immersive elements
>open world
>sandbox
>gameplay driven by human factions in competition with each other
>players can alter the world/setting
>non-generic setting and lore

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>>383740653
Depends. Do you have 100+ million in your pockets as well as the time to make one that is actually good?

Turn back time.

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>>383741208

Sorry bro, I look for a couple hours every other week to see if there is anything out there worth playing.

There never is.

The only reason MMOs were ever good was because they were novel thing and you were a 12 year old without any responsibility and could get immersed and think about the game 24/7

Fishing levels?

>>383741301
This.
MMOs suck dick when you can only play like 2 hours a day.

>>383741220

>this
>in a huge sprawling cyberpunk world

A man can dream...

>>383741374
>he's not a NEET
lmao

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>tfw you're a poverty fag and can't join at the launch of SWG, Everquest 2, WoW, or even FF11
>tfw you can now afford it but everything went to shit/you're way behind
Fuck, if I could transfer my money to my past self to play those mmo, then my younger self wouldn't waste his time on fucking runescape for many years.

>>383740653
Pic unrelated

>>383740653
The only thing I want is another economy like Runescape's.
>nearly all items are created by player professions
>you must peddle your wares manually among dozens of other merchants
Together, they make everybody from turbojews to n00bs useful.
Also the game needs to have house parties

>>383741498
>taking pride in being a parasite
lmao

playing runescape with my friend is the only brief peroid of happines i can remember from my childhood...

>>383741645
runescape is actually the best mmo though

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>>383741760
That is exactly what SWG does, but you could hire merchant to sell your shit. You could even put your trade mark/logo on the item

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>>383741862
>taking pride in being a literal slave

>>383741991
God what a great fucking game that was

>>383741760
yeah then it died when they added an auction house aka Grand exchange
no more peddling your shit or looking for stuff to buy at east varrock bank, now you just put it up and anonymous buy things at fixed prices

>>383740653
Runescape is good because it combines RPG and point-and-click adventure gameplay to create an incredibly rich and unique world. It's a game best enjoyed as a wide-eyed wanderer, taking the time to explore the world and appreciate all the little things. However, being an MMO, most of the playerbase plays it very differently, focusing on leveling skills and collecting wealth for its own sake; the typical MMO goals

I've seen some people criticize Runescape for not being multiplayer enough, which is probably true

>>383742178
Fagex really is the worst company ever

>>383741228
>>383741228
how could it possibly cost that much

>>383742016
>he doesn't realize that living with your parents is the ultimate form of slavery

>>383741128
laughingfirstgraphicaloverhaulofzanik.gif

>>383742228
Thats true.

>>383740653
You don't do shit because you're not part of the industry and you never will be

Runescape is fucking awful. Why do you retards praise it so much? Is it the same people who think Oblivion is a good game?

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>>383742016
I'M NOT A FUCKING SLAVE
WE'LL CONTINUE THIS TOMORROW I HAVE TO GET UP EARLY FOR WORK

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>>383740653
>limit grinding
>community driven worlds/events
>focus on exploration and world building
>remove or limit micro-transactions
>fix dead content
>listen to the players
>hire good writers to make engaging quests
>update tutorials
>make other combat options viable
>add charisma
>don't make every player "the world saver" or some other bullshit
>make more than two cities useful for all levels of players

also more of https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BJhF0L7pfo8

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>>383742234
Advertising

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>>383740653
>runeshit
I legitimately feel bad for kids who had parents too jewish to buy them guild wars or even WoW, leaving them with this shit

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>>383742260
>live with mom an an apartment
>she works from evening to morning
>have almost an almost complete day for myself to do whatever the fuck I want
>slavery
>he isn't an introvert who feels relaxed and happy in complete solitude
Kek. Nice try wagie.
>>383742473
Good, get your sleep wagie. You better not hit that snooze button, Mr. Goldstein wouldn't be happy to see you late again.

>Uses his time to play on websites
>Rather than making websites

Truly this neet disappoints his mother

>>383742410
>He never played runescape in it's heyday.
I'm sorry anon.

>>383741220
>gameplay driven by human factions in competition with each other
The only time I've seen this work was in EVE.

I unironically think the GE was a good idea. There was nothing particularly enjoyable about spamming about your yew logs constantly in a sea of other people spamming similar things with giant flashing wavy text.

The real question is though lads.
Fishing levels?

>>383741128
Too bad RS3 itself is absolute shit.

>>383741128
This.

On my way to QPC on my ironman.

>>383742803

>Nothing enjoyable

It created a sense of a full MMO world because you were hanging out doing this with other people.

Without something to centralize the playerbase besides the entrance to the wildy (which they killed at the exact same time as the grand exchange and unlimited trading) most of the world felt barren.

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>>383742803
>he didn't use the trading forum

>everyone has fun playing OSRS since thye have nostalgia and knowledge of the game
>I know nothing because I only played original ages ago and never played RS2 at all
>can't get into OSRS
Anyone else know this feeling? Everything looks like they have so much fun playing the game and it looks like it has generally the best MMO community.

>>383742216
In RS3, they went and removed the need for another person to help you with two quests, Shield of Arrav and Hero's Quest.
All the minigames that aren't giving extra currency are also fucking dead because everyone is busy getting max exp/grinding bosses for max gp. Two of the most profitable bosses are solo only, as are the vast majority of skilling activities, so why the fuck would you do anything else, considering the faggotry rampant in the community?
It really needs to be burnt down and started back up with more of a focus on multiplayer/player interaction. OSRS shows that what they had back around '07 is salvageable (and honestly every quest up to and including The Chosen Commander was pretty gud, barring shit like Sheep Herder/Shearer), but Jagex being Jagex (especially since it's modern Jagex) means they're going to keep doing fucking stupid shit.

>>383742803
It makes it too easy to find whatever items you need

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When are we going to get SAO-like game where we play the game for real?

>>383740787

rs is the grindiest shit ever my dude

if you want more mmos to be like rs you need MORE grinding

>>383742684
>I legitimately feel bad
Don't. It was a fantastic experience all the way up to 2010.
If I went back in time to 2004, I would totally waste my life away playing Runescape again. I met so many great people that I lost contact with after we all quit the game one after another, I wonder if they're all alive.

>>383742881
78

>>383743195
I have a theory that if we ever get full VR games like .hack's The World it would be a 24/7 orgy and hardly anyone would play the game.

>>383742796
No because I played actual MMORPGs like Final Fantasy XI instead. I'm sorry you were poor.

>>383743257
nice

fishing lvls?

>>383743257
nice

>>383741128
>are
*were
Current quests nowadays are just fanfic tier thanks to Guthix dying making you world guardian, Sliske bullshit, boring god shit, new gods being introduced only to die 10 mins later, unfinished half assed content, and if you're talking about OSRS it's even worse. Only thing OSRS has going for it is that devs haven't fucked up the combat and gear like they did in RS3.

Also all this forced 4-8-12 man group content Jagex is trying to force on people is fucking cancer. I thought when they fired Chris L all the tryhard PvM shit would stop, but it just got worse. Jagex needs to realize that people only ever did PvM in the glory days of RS in order to PvP and other activities, not for fun.

>>383743195
Right now, get outside.
If your spawn point is in Chicago or something you might need to equip the best weapons you've got, since this permadeath shit doesn't sound like it's going away any time soon.

>>383741279
I only just started playing Dofus. It's a verry different kind of mmo to the ones I've usually tried, I think I'm liking it so far.

>>383742735
>implying your Mom will care about your useless lazy ass your whole life

>>383743284
This is true I hope it comes within our lifetimes

How's Black Desert Online?

>>383742803
It fucks over all quests too
Before gathering all the items you need in a quest was the hardest and most time consuming part
Now you just buy everything from GE

>>383740787
There is literally nothing wrong with jews. Get out with this /pol/ meme.

>>383741220
Outside of the UI point, you're just describing Wurm.

>>383743491

leveling is ok

endgame sucks

>>383742881
>>383743332
39

>>383743150
I've always kinda wanted to play some RS3, just to see how the game turned out, but I'm casual enough as it is that I'm not willing to put forward the time since I'm playing OSRS

The point I was trying to make (poorly) was that I'm not exactly sure how important the multiplayer aspect is to Runescape. Which is odd, I know. Shouldn't an MMO be focused primarily on multiplayer experience? Of course, I'm not saying that everyone grinding away by their lonesome is anyone's idea of good gameplay

>>383741975
same

>>383740787
Immersion is not an aspect the game provides, it's about how you feel about it. Everyone feels different

>>383743582
had to stop playing once i hit endgame its so fucking boring

>>383743257
>>383743589
Nice

MMOs will come back with time
The current games in vogue are match-based competitive games. CSGO, Dota, LoL, Overwatch, PUBG, and so on. But people are beginning to tire of that format. LoL doesn't release numbers anymore, Dota's numbers peaked last year and are slowly declining, etc. The tide will slowly turn back to MMOs because they are the opposite of the genre. Even CoD is making a 48-player hub zone where people just dick around and talk instead of just sitting in matchmaking queues 24/7

>>383742881
80 halfway to 81

fishing lobs on karamja cuz im not spending real money on that gay shit

>>383743641

>wanted to try rs3
>but I'm too casual

lol wat rs3 is the more casual version

It's one of the reason I play it over os

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>2007 Runescape was a perfect microcosm of a free trade market in action and it was beautiful
>prices never became inflated, the flow of goods was directly dictated by the players
>kids learned important life lessons like economics 101 and distrusting strangers for the first time
>suddenly Jagex flipped the islamic gommunism switch and ruined all of this like the retarded britbongs they are

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>>383741645
jesus, sarah

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>>383742735
>i just graduated school high school and ive had a lot of fun not having to do anything all summer!
You'll understand someday kid. It will hurt more than you realize.
t. neet for more years than i can remember

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>>383743895
>drop training

>>383743907
When I say I'm a casual, I mean I'm someone who has never gotten over 70 in any skill. I've been playing OSRS since 2014, but my combat's only 54. I'll take month-long breaks from playing, and even when I do, it might be three or four days a week. And the way I play is very slow and inefficient, but that's the way I like it.

>>383743942
Welfare state or parentbux?

>>383743307
Quality bait right here.

>>383744001
>not noting fish

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>>383743450
>implying my dad doesn't own two houses and some land
>implying I won't get them for FREE when he dies
I'll have an entire house for myself, if not even TWO. Stay mad ragie wagie, I might have to get a work in the future but I'll only have to work a fraction of what you would have done in years and live like a king.

>>383742735
I feel sorry for your mother. One day she's going to die and little Anon is going to be homeless.

>>383742881
81 im fishing sharks right now

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>>383743553

>

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>>383743378
I'm fast traveling to Chicago soon. God help me.

>>383743907
>logged in when they were fucking around with tasks system
>dude here's a free 1m because you have a high total level lmao
>logged in while using bonds to check out how badly they ruined scape
>dude here's TWO untradeable skirts with stats equal to skirts with a market value of 2m but since you already have one we'll just give you 500k
>also here's a shitton of feathers for boots you don't own worth 1m
>wind up paying for bond with squeal of treasure hunter spins and picking 100k cabbages
>>383744084
Keep it up, to fall to efficiencyfaggotry is to lose sight of the game's goals. Gave me decent mouse moving/clickan speed though.

>>383744084

Yea I was the same way, then I tried rs3 and I got 2 99's. It's way easier and less time consuming

I play efficiently tho

>World building with player housing, but fixed housing like Tibia or BDO that is scarce and meaningful
>Huge focus on player roles in a party and discouraging alts
>Fewer quests, but more meaningful quests like in RO that are long chains that take hours but have you solving mysteries that define a zone, dungeon, etc
>Ability to modify the environment to some extent like Wakfu/Dofus with meaningful crafting that can match dungeon gear
>Important changing weather effects for each region that determine crops, spawns, and survival
>Big picture zone wide dynamic events akin to Rift tailored to each zone that cannot be ignored
>Projects for guilds to work on including building upgrades, vessels, limited flying, and community events like hosting parties to invite people into a town

>>383744228
Better have a good ranged level and setup ready, Ape Atoll is unforgiving.

>>383743553
There is literally nothing wrong with the people who caused every world war / catastrophe since the beginning of recorded history

>>383744105
Savings at first from my old normie life, then inheritance from family deaths, now my mother is just enabling me because she doesn't think I can make it out in the world anymore.

>>383744118
>wahhh bait
just end yourself my man.

>>383744274
I'm not too worried about being high-leveled. In fact it gives me a little silly sense of self-superiority over the grinders. I just wish I could find some friends who liked to play the game the way I do

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>>383743553

>>383743942
>graduated high school
Kek. It isn't that bad, think, you could be slaving away for pennies right now. I highly doubt that it would be any better.

t. NEET for 2+ years
>>383744190
>homeless
Read >>383744156

>>383742904
>lol guys i'm SOOOOOOO hardcore 07 4 lyfe!!! xDDD!!!!
Fucking end yourself. 07 is a literal meme that started out good but become the most hypocritical garbage ever conceived. Absolutely fucking retarded playerbase.

>Lock region to US only and prevent Chinks/Russians/SEA from playing by requiring a US area code SIM

>One single, sprawling hub city on the scale of NYC or Tokyo
>City can be added onto through updates easily and allows for more player owned housing

>Have immersive quests from drama, humor, puzzles, and combat
>Very visible stat and armor progression
>Dangerous overworld and quests/raids create necessity to team up and create community, discourage solo play through loot loss on death
>Combat gameplay similar to Ultima/RS with incentives to party up

>Have extensive non-combat/raid/dungeon related gameplay such as life skills being really fucking fun (or funny) minigames
>Fucking fun minigames are usually done with a group
>[insert nonspecific new anti botting measures here]

>Gathering skills required to get resources for processing skills that create the most important items for gameplay such as potions, weapons, armor, magic implements, etc
>Repair costs and ammunition costs create constant demand for these resources

>PKing zone with even more dangerous creatures like the Wilderness where the BEST materials can only be found
>Location in PKing Zone limits supply of these resources
>Discourages and punishes botters
>Demand for these resources is kept high through repair costs, PvP losses, content in the non-Wilderness, and the fact that only top gatherers/fighters can get these resources
>Economically priced resources to sustain and prevail in the PKing zone such as economically priced healing items and potions are located in the safe zone, increasing demand and creating a stable, looping economy with the PKing zone as the endstate for all resources.
>Allows players who do not want to risk and participate in PKing zone gameplay to progress their characters at a slower but fair rate


BUT WAIT, THIS IS HOW IT'S FINANCED AND HOW TO STOP INFLATION

>>383740653
By lowering the standards we built over the years.

Fuck, I can't appreciate shit in any recent game compared to 9 years ago

>>383744313
>Important changing weather effects for each region that determine crops, spawns, and survival
>make weather/nature mage
>can't hardly do shit at the start except ensure potatoes grow up healthily
>work way on up to influencing the weather in a region, get paid big bux to control precipitation and the like by rich farmers
>PvP with other magefags involves manipulating air current and humidity to determine what areas get what weather
>never touch actual combat at all to become one of the most powerful figures on the server

>>383744231

>made like 2m farmin green drag
>spend it all on logs for firemaking because I"m retarded
>drop parties around where I trained all the time
>made like 50mill off the parties alone

and I thought fm was gonna be useless

>>383740653
Stray away from the WoW format as far as possible

>>383744651
Why are you so upset for? RS3 is trash, and it shows from how many players quit/switched to OSRS.

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>>383740653
warframe will be this soon. the things i would give for more clan hall features though

The key fact to understand is that MMOs were never good, so the only way to fix them is to kill them.

>>383745093

Wrong.

I went back to project1999 for a couple years and it was as good as it was in 2014 as it was in 1999.

>>383744651
He's not wrong though, the gameplay is somehow worse than a click and ignore game.

>>383744674
>Very visible stat and armor progression
If this is what I think you mean, I agree and wish it was brought up more. Being able to tell at a glance how much more/less powerful another player is beats having to look up their stats or just getting a general number for their level.

>>383744674

>All items and in-game currency can be converted into units of untradable cash shop currency
>Amount of cash shop currency on return is proportional to what the damn item is
>Very, VERY low ratios but prevents deflation through too much supply by giving ALL items a way to exit the economy without being bought or dropped while still giving value
>prevents inflation because it doesn't create more in-game currency (fuck you high alchemy)

In-game currency can be used on:

- In-game waifu or husbando simulator where you take very important NPCs out on a date. Need to hire writers who can write waifus and husbandos that people will like.
- Raising your children that you have with that waifu/husbando
- Have these NPCs as followers for quests or for traveling
- Starting a Guild or Managing A Guild
- Starting a Player-Owned Storefront that can sell items and buy requested items while you log off
- Costs for Player-Owned Housing rents that change depending on how big of a house/apartment you own in the single hub city
- Player cosmetics, lock the sexiest shit behind a HUGE paywall and make the players pay (or play) for it
- Most expensive shit are tickets that prevent equipped item loss on death

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I tried black desert online people said it was supposed to be like a single player game or something like that it was different
Its the grindiest most p2w shit i have ever seen to date

>>383740653
Step one don't add in a global auction house. Make all player to player sales local trades or static mini auction houses that are not linked so a single item can vary in price depending on the location.

Have a metric fuck ton of skills that are not linked to each other and require no other skills or a minimum "global level" to use. Let someone hard core one single skill and nothing else if they want. Make the skills synergize with each other so making a high level bow needs high wood cutting high crafting and high something else then a high archery to use.

Space all the resource nodes intelligently but spaced out from each other. Make some areas of the world map devoid of some resources. Space them out from major cities and player pathways so the further you are out the higher level nodes you find.

Make all player made items 1.5 to 3 times better than standard monster drops for the level.

Let guilds claim some areas of the map and let them pvp other players that move in and steal their claimed resources. Make these areas much more abundant in nodes.

This set up FORCES player interaction with each other. Different masters come together with their skills to make products for other players. Low level players can run resources for the guilds or their friends. Players will trek the world to dump items in far off locations for more profit. Players who only care about combat can join guilds and act as guards participating in the world economy. Let guilds set up trade routes that players can plunder or protect.

What makes a good MMO is player interaction and minimum "Streamlining" Remove looking for group options and force players to talk in chats and make their own groups. Make things exceedingly tedious for one player to do "everything." Make them WANT to work with others rather than ignore them.

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>>383745029
Warframe and Destiny 2 look like good progression to an fps/tps mmo that I am pretty excited for if they do it right.

I've been playing Aion again lately. Its okay, leveling is a hell of a lot quicker from when I played before until you hit the road block at current content.

I bought BDO during the summer sale and refunded it. Combat was kinda fun but otherwise it was boring as fuck and I've heard bad things about it being a single player grindfest

>>383744512
>t. NEET for 2+ years
That's cute. I agree with you for the most part. I've accomplished a lot of things that I never would have if I had been slaving away in an office, but after a while I start to wonder what else I could have done with my time. Especially when you get to be my age and everyone you used to know doesn't want anything to do with you and treats you like a subhuman even though you're in the best physical shape you've ever been and they are fat and miserable. Hell, I don't even know what I'm complaining about. Wage slaving is a scam. Maybe I'm starting to fall for the brainwashing myself. You don't have to change if you want to, but at least develop some useful skills and look into ways of making money that doesn't require leaving the house that are either braindead easy or something you enjoy that can bring in spare cash. A parasitic neet is at the bottom rung of society, but a secretly self-made wealthy neet is several tiers higher than any wage slave.

>>383745473
Now, you're thinking, "How do we get the casuals to play it without casualizing it?"

Train your stats and gather low level resources while you're away from the computer with your connected phone! By playing similar minigames to the full game, you can process materials, fruit-ninja your combat skills (and gain xp at a much slower rate than in-game but compete for high scores), even gather low level materials that are needed to complete higher tier material processing.

>>383743556
and Darkfall, and Mortal Online.

the problem is, people say they want to play these games, but never commit to them. the second issue is that it's small teams fulfilling the niche, and they all, without fail, wind up incredibly fucking corrupt.

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>been farming gatherer/crafter in ff14 for 3 days straight now
>still haven't even hit the hard part yet

>>383745835
That seems extremely tedious and complicated, you'd have an impossible time keeping a playerbase.

>>383745835
Sounds like ff14 to me

>>383742881
99

I watched a shitload of TV while I fished

My only regret is that I didn't get a second monitor so I could post on 4chan while I did it

>>383745237
Example would be a level 3 in RuneScape back in 2003 looking up at a level 24 in Mithril Armor, then a 35 in Adamant Armor, then a fucking 50+ in Runite Armor.

There's a clear difference in power not only amongst those players, but in the level 3 and those players.

For one, economy and supply also have an effect on armor/weapon progression. What's so great about the best shit in the game if EVERYONE above a certain level has it? A level 3 should be DREAMING of getting Runite armor and becoming more powerful, not laying down a tried-and-true plan to do so. Keeping the prices high on those godly weapons and armor is important.

Ditto for weapons. Make a clear (but classy, and not too gaudy) difference between the level 1 items (bronze) to the higher level items (runite). Where RuneScape got it wrong was when things got too overdesigned, too gaudy and most importantly, too common.

>>383745920
this reminds me

>try to play aion
>can't remember my pin
>email ncsoft
>no response

welp guess I won't be playing that again

>>383746458
That's why there is incentives in it. Money makes the world go round and it lets player build their own empires instead of the same ol same ol with the AI. Its one of t he reasons we hear about EVE so much all the shit happens because of players being players. You want to create the infrastructure for players to do that.

>>383745835
>Make some areas of the world map devoid of some resources.
How to make sure areas never get foot traffic.

How the fuck is BDO floating between #2 and #3 top selling game on Steam? Its so fucking boring.

Is ESO any better?

You honestly cant

The business model is way too risky and the amount of developers/time you need to put in to it, even after launch, is way too high for companies now. MMOs are dead because its way easier to just cashgrab on mobile games unless you have a previous audience (See: FFXIV/GW2/WoW)

>>383747279
>How the fuck is BDO floating between #2 and #3 top selling game on Steam?
it released recently and it's cheap as fuck

>>383747175
>some resources

Not all resources. Say a desert with no trees but lots of rocks for mining. This makes it so wood products like arrows are in high supply and more valuable in that area so players that want to put in the extra effort to bring arrows in to sell get more profit.

>>383747334
I read it wrong my bad yo. I thought it said no resources for some reason.

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>>383743208
You and me both.

>>383741991
I watched my brother play SWG while he explained how things worked. It was an accidental masterpiece that the producers spaghetti'd so hard to bring in a casual and more vast player base.

It's actually incredible how fast that game was forced into casual shitbaggery. from my memory there was like 8 months of a good game in between all of their shitty overhauls they tried to push. Every hardcore player's accomplishments were destroyed by expansions and overhaul patches.

>tfw never played runescape
Is it too late to get into rs?

>>383740787
Vanilla WoW and SWG were the peak of immersion for me.

SWG was exactly what I wanted. I didn't want a jedi simulator. I wanted to be a part of the SW universe. I literally provided all the shit for smugglers to make illegal spice. I made millions. I had an amazing car to go with my title as "That dude who sells all the shit for drugs".

WoW was just as fun for me, because I was exploring a world I only saw from a top-down perspective, but loved. If only it'd stayed consistently fun after TBC/WOTLK.

>>383747869
Try playing OSRS and see if you like it. One word of advice: have a completely open mind going in. Don't read guides, don't take advice from anyone. It's the best way to experience it

>>383747762
>"We really just needed to make the game a lot more accessible to a much broader player base," said Nancy MacIntyre, the game's senior director at LucasArts. "There was lots of reading, much too much, in the game. There was a lot of wandering around learning about different abilities. We really needed to give people the experience of being Han Solo or Luke Skywalker rather than being Uncle Owen, the moisture farmer. We wanted more instant gratification: kill, get treasure, repeat. We needed to give people more of an opportunity to be a part of what they have seen in the movies rather than something they had created themselves."
Fucking women, man. Everytime there something that goes bad in the mmo development, it always them.

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>>383748292

>that quote
>its real

>>383743719
While this is correct, the game can facilitate immersion by minimizing pop-ups, forcing you to find your own groups, no remote turn-in quest bullshit unless you have a carrier pigeon or something. Make a cohesive world that feels like it fits together instead of many smaller parts that don't mesh well. Etc.
#1 is definitely limiting UI, seeing a big "You have levelled up!1!" is so jarring to me.

>>383747762
SWG Vet here.
Game took off slow. By Publish 3 it was getting damn good. It hit a fucking stride at Publish 6, and turned into a goddamn masterpiece. Then JTL hit and added MORE shit you could really get into on the side, like Shipwrighting, and opened up a whole new market to trade professions.

Then Publish 15 hit, and the "Combat Upgrade" happened. It was a shitty attempt to mimic WoW, but it was servicecable. It was the mark of a downward spiral, though. Trials of Obi-Wan hit, and added a whole ton of fantastic shit for Bio-engineers...

And then the NGE hit 2 weeks later, and completely wiped Bio-engineers out of existence.

I literally watched 80% of the people I'd made friends with in the past 2 1/2 years disappear over night. The only people who stuck around did it out of hope that Julio fucking Torres would get shitcanned, and our game would come back with an "I'M SORRY!".

But it never happened. I left after my months sub was up, never looked back. The couple buddies I had left kept trying to get me to come back, promising it got more fun? But I knew it was just them trying to reassure themselves they weren't wasting time.

SWG's downfall is responsible for my trust issues with video game devs, to this day. And for the most part, why I avoid MMO's. It can all go to shit in the matter of two weeks.

>>383748648

Everquest did it great.

Ding.

That was it.

And it felt satisfying.

>>383748483
It more annoying when people blame SoE for this when this was teh action of Lucas Art. If it were up to SoE, SWG would have an updated version of CU instead of creating what is the FIRST wow clone.

>>383742881
9

>>>/vg/182449824

>>383748292
>We needed to give people more of an opportunity to be a part of what they have seen in the movies rather than something they had created themselves
WHAT.
>Instead of letting people do half the work and make up their own stories and enjoy just being a part of the story in some way
>We feel we need to do all the work and make people experience key characters from the films that got people into this world in the first place
WHAT.
>>383748843
Agreed.

>>383742801
Yeah, and funny thing is EvE isn't popular. Players are in love with the idea of being part of one of those important factions but in reality most players will just be cogs in the machine and whine about balance.

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>>383748885
>That feel when you STILL hate SoE and LucasArts, to this day.

>>383749027
it looks dead

>>383744492
What's the story behind this picture?

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>>383748648
>#1 is definitely limiting UI, seeing a big "You have levelled up!1!" is so jarring to me.
Sounds like you never played Wildstar.
https://youtu.be/Z6j04OGUpRI

>>383749941
Oh don't worry, I know how shit Wildstar's Level up is.

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>>383749032
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/12/10/arts/for-online-star-wars-game-its-revenge-of-the-fans.html
Here is the full interview. Seriously, fuck Lucas Art and fuck women place in higher position for shit they have no experiences in.

>>383749718
my accountant tripped on the rug

My experience with SWG was similar to some of yours. It had a lot of flaws and was clunky, especially at first, but goddamn in hindsight it was so perfect in lots of ways as well.
There are some pretty interesting essays by raph koster about the evolution of the design of the game that you can google, believe they were originally on his blog. He goes over a lot of neat stuff and is a nice insight into mmo development in general.

>>383749718
"le grand rhume"

>>383749941
That was fun though.
>HEEEEEEEY, NEATO...

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>>383742606
>limit grinding

Legit, what would be the endgame then? Every MMO endgame was grinding

>>383751618
People need to accept the fact that the endgame is never going to be fun

>>383742410
name (1) game, of any genre,with quest design even close to being as good as runescape's.
Oh wait, you can't.
Not because it's hard, but because it doesn't make money and devs are lazy jewish shitters, whereas the gower brothers were actually passionate.

>>383751287
If anyone cares, adding a link to read the raph koster essays. They're not that long and if you were into SWG you'll enjoy it.
There are six parts, this links to the first one.
>https://www.raphkoster.com/2015/04/15/star-wars-galaxies-tefs/

Hey anon, can you go get some red mahogany logs from the woodsman outside town for me?

>>383751846
But everyone who plays MMOs says the endgame is the best part 99% of the time

>>383743553
Oy vey!

>>383752159
Not him but I guess we'll see to that when all the new MMOs come out that don't focus on gear/currency grind.

>>383740653
Yeah dude I sure love clicking the same tree literally 100,000 times to level up my tree clicking skill.

I sure do love unresponsive combat and unbalanced pvp.

Place penalty on deaths and make people feel bad for dying instead of using it as an quick way to get teleported to town.

And stop this full loot bullshit, it nullify the worth of items.

>>383741645

>those soulless eyes

>>383752159
>everyone who plays MMOs
Really, it's more like the vocal minority of the most dedicated and high-achieving players

Do you think the endgame is the most fun part of Runescape? Of course it isn't, but the people who have reached it are inordinately obsessed with their own status

>>383752371
>Place penalty on deaths and make people feel bad for dying instead of using it as an quick way to get teleported to town.
GW1 did this with the death penalty. Every time you die you get -15% HP/Energy all the way up to -60% and in hard mode if you die at -60% you get sent back to town and lose all your progress in the area you're in.

>>383743205
Clearly you haven't played black desert online.

>>383741220
>players can alter the world/setting
You'll have guilds dedicated to completely destroying the world

What upcoming games are you hopeful for, /v/?
I'm not necessarily "hyped" but I am cautiously optimistic.
I'm generally more into sandbox oriented stuff.
Games I'm hoping don't suck:
>Crowfall
>Camelot Unchained
>Chronicles of Elyria
>Ashes of Creation
>Albion Online
>Darkfall: New Dawn
>The New World
>Gloria Victis
>Life is Feudal
>The Repopulation

I could be missing some, and many or all of those could end up being complete crap. Most hopeful for crowfall and CU by far. New World is from Amazon and it's a little unique in that it's the first AAA budget sandbox mmo in ages.
Albion honestly looks like shit but I hope I'm wrong.
Ashes of creation may be a scam.
Repopulation is a SWG clone (maybe "half-assed swg clone" is more appropriate), basically looks just like SWG except prettier and no jedis. Not sure if that's good or bad.

In the meantime I will play haven&hearth off and on and continue hating myself.

>>383752597
I always love when my entire team get -60%, we actually do better than when we have the 10% boost

>>383752527
You forgot to mention that Runescape was in an era where endgame isn't important. He probably grown up with WoW

>>383740653
I remember playing alttp on snes as a kid and being amazed by the shimmering glow when I pulled the master sword from the stone. That is the same feeling I had from playing Wow for the first time. It was new and different. The thing made it fun is everyone was playing it. Now everyone has their own favorite game they want their friends to play

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>>383743553

MMOs are always doomed to be boring because they don't force their players to interact. The main group of people interested in MMOs is a bunch of lonely nerds that are too scared of awkward social interactions IRL so they seek companionship/interaction online. Only now, MMOs are designed to 100% playable solo. If you never incentivize or force players to interact, they won't. So you'll be paying all those server-bucks for what is essentially a shitty single-player game. There will eventually be another MMO that comes along and takes the genre by storm. WoW will be considered old hat, and the new one will rule the day. That new MMO will be something that forces people to interact with each other. Screencap this for posterity.

>>383740653
focus more on DAOC, SWG, Eve Online, even Runescape, and less on Everquest/WoW (this gave us the decade of mediocrity)
archeage was a step in the right direction but ruined by general Koreanness

there's a lot of MMOs in development that are approaching more of the sandbox element, however most of them have low as fuck budgets

>>383743830
What I hope for now is WoW 2 with a new engine and everything shiny and new again

>>383752371
Full loot can work but the entire game has to be designed around it. Slapping full loot in a gear based game like WoW makes no sense. But full loot in game like old Darkfall where gear is intended to be disposable to a degree can work.
The issue isn't necessarily full loot, it's creating meaningful penalties not only for dying but for player killing - or at least ensuring it's a cost/risk analysis and the game doesn't become simply a gankbox.
Using Darkfall as an example again, since there were no real repercussions for killing (past political consequences which may or may not matter to a player) there was no real reason to NOT kill anyone you saw that wasn't currently in your ventrilo channel, and quite a bit of risk in not killing them immediately.
That turned the entire mmo into essentially a fuckhuge deathmatch. Which is fun but doesn't have a lot to do with RPG.

>>383752405

That hand clipping straight through the side of the gun and the magazine,

>>383741065
I'm glad you didn't reply bdo

>>383742881
99, trout and salmon at Shilo Village for days.

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>>383752775
holy shit

>>383743363
PvM is kind of fun

Too bad QBD the only low req boss worth fighting

GW2 seems daunting

Tells Is just....yea

>>383743928
Time devalues the market anon

>>383741370
45

>>383753774
Nice

>>383753774
nice

>>383743928
>>383753475
is there a % chance for some items to be destroyed on player death like Eve Online, or does everything drop every time (minus the 3 items or whatever you keep)?

>>383752689
Everything about Albion sounds (mostly) appealing, minus the paying for gold part. Premium doesn't seem horrible, since it can be thought of as a subscription. Anyway, I'm so thirsty I'm probably just going to buy the starter pack and see how it is for the first month. I've been wanting to play an MMO since SWG got raped.

I'm cautiously optimistic New Dawn, but after looking into RoA I don't know. From my understanding ND devs are actual devs and not autistic retards, but I feel like these offshoots aren't ever going to develop large communities.

>>383752787
This. The amount of times I've heard shit like "I prefer to play solo" or "I don't talk much, i just do my stuff" in MMO is staggering. Seriously, why do people play MMOs if they are going to pull something like that on you?

>>383743205
You're afk most of the time so it's not that bad, like you could very easily play the game with 1 monitor displaying the game, while doing other things on your other monitor.
It is shit though and does need to stop, but it's not that bad.

>>383753851
>>383753873
thx

u?

>>383753965
I may let myself get suckered into Albion as well, assuming I can find a guild first as it looks like a nightmare without one.
I don't mind premium since it's like a sub, but I have suspicions I won't be that into it for other reasons anyhow. We'll see! I'm going to give it some time still unless I get weak.

I agree about RoA. And I also agree that I'm not sure the already niche fanbase can support both games. RoA isn't terrible but it's an only slightly improved old darkfall, and my biggest gripes were how little of an rpg was in the mmorpg, if that makes sense. For gankboxes I'd have more fun playing pubg.
New Dawn is supposed to bring more UO inspired elements into it, which is more in line with the initial vision Tasos and co had for Darkfall. Localized banking, trade routes, territory control, blah blah. I think skillpoint caps as well, instead of everyone ultimately being maxed on everything.
But yeah, what you said: I'm not hopeful it will ever be a thing but it doesn't hurt to keep up on the development.

>>383752159
that's because you aren't including people who play until endgame then quit.

>>383754381
3

>>383740653
I think I've realized that what I want out of an mmo is just a co-op game with a hub to group up and meet people. Invictus, Guild Wars 1 and Neverwinter are kind of like it but I still want the open world and not just jumping straight into dungeons.

>>383754394
DND is more appealing to me than RoA for that exact reason. But the low player base of RoA is a bad sign IMO, and a sandbox MMO that is a ghost town is depressing as fuck. Hopefully the DND devs do actual marketing when they're closer to release so people are even aware of it.

>>383754381
>is wearing the cape
>"1 lol"

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Anyone still play Aion? The grind at launch was terrible after 30 but I havent touched it since it went F2P

>>383752919

>blizzard

>>383742016
This basically
>old slavery: You work for food and housing
>new slavery: you work for money, which you spend on food and housing

Has there been an MMO with an in game message board equivalent? Wikis and youtube guides/spoilers are cancer since they take you out of the game so why not keep it self contained? Having a streamlined forum that's also connected to a large hub location players can go and an anonymous text board you can access anywhere through a tab on the chat could be pretty neat if done well.

Get rid of the mini map with pre marked everything and make people draw their own. Include an auto map option if necessary.

Also why do MMOs have this huge fascination with combat (as if any of these games have good combat), stat/level progression, raids and dungeons? Why the focus on "endgame" as if everything else up to that point didn't matter?

Add lots of stuff like side activities and minigames that are fun to play with others for the sake of it, or have the reward players with materials, cosmetics and housing/pet stuff.

Allow players to set up mobile shops or stands in any open area out of town, even in dangerous as fuck places. Expand that to tents and camps as well (I think tree of savior did this? I haven't played it yet)

>>383756257
>Why the focus on "endgame" as if everything else up to that point didn't matter?
You can thank wow for making that popular.

>Add lots of stuff like side activities and minigames that are fun to play with others for the sake of it, or have the reward players with materials, cosmetics and housing/pet stuff.
Publishers think this will not give them money. They prefer it if you buy it from their cash shop


>Allow players to set up mobile shops or stands in any open area out of town, even in dangerous as fuck places. Expand that to tents and camps as well
SWG does this.

>>383756257
>Also why do MMOs have this huge fascination with combat (as if any of these games have good combat), stat/level progression, raids and dungeons? Why the focus on "endgame" as if everything else up to that point didn't matter?
>Add lots of stuff like side activities and minigames that are fun to play with others for the sake of it, or have the reward players with materials, cosmetics and housing/pet stuff.
A thousand times this

>>383755010
>say 98
>guy in the cape starts making fun of you

>>383756193
Except you have a choice in the matter entirely.

Play on private servers run by people who care about the core of the game.

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>>383757028
Because publisher exist. Because whale exist. The jewing is at it highest and they are still finding ways to make money with zero effort.

>>383757801
There's a pretty good Runescape RS that recently went live
though I wish they hadn't gone with an XP modifier

>>383740653
MMOs are games first, multiplayer second. What's important is to make a game with a high skill cieling instead of the infinite drain in resources that is gear treadmills.

runescape would be so much better if it was just 5* the XP gained. No one wants to click rocks for 10 hours.

>>383758529
yes they do, osrs is more popular than rs3

>>383742881
83

>>383758435
People look back fondly on old mmos exactly because they were multiplayer first. Everquest didn't have phenomenal gameplay for the time. It had a great community and that was partly because the game was good at forcing it to be necessary. A requirement for a good mmo is to not allow players to avoid each other. There has always been a group of mmo players who were complaining that they wanted to be able to play alone. They must be ignored.

>>383740653
wtf happened to Darkscape?

Fucking fantastic idea that was way better than RS

>>383740653
>Is grind to win
>Can also pay win
Run escape is not a good game

>>383752689
Gloria victis isn't really all that fun right now.

Crowfall is pretty okay, though.

>>383740653

I've never experienced classic runescape. Is there any hope for me to have that experience now or all the classic servers shitty in some way?

>>383752689
Crowfall better fucking deliver

Gonna be another Wildstar though

>>383759759
>>383747998

>>383740981
I think you can find a copy of Secret World before the Legends re release on their website. Secret World is good on previding a story. I heard the Legends re releases free-to-play model isn't all that great.

>>383759759
why would you want to, it's just a tremendous waste of time

the only reason people play it is because of nostalgia and addiction and i say this as someone who fits that description perfectly

>>383753915
Nowadays on Oldschool untraddables are not dropped and you have an hour to get everything else back before it despawns. Other players can't see your items.

In pking its the same as it has always been. Untradables like void and fc are destroyed and cash is dropped.

>>383759759
RS3 has better quests and content overall (though a lot of stuff is hit or miss)
Only reason to play OSRS is pvp or nostalgia

>>383760073
You can say that about any mmo. It seems to me that they're a novelty everyone will try once but can agree they shouldn't try twice.

>>383740787
Grinding can be okay, it just has to be sensible. For example, you could say classic WoW leveling and honor ranking was heavy grinding, but the process of doing both was very engaging and interesting. It easily took you out of the grinding mindset which is what every MMO should strive for. Bad grinding is having some incomprehensible text number to max out that gives extremely minor changes to your character.

If the grind is done right it can actually help immersion. I definitely agree about cash shops though. There needs to be some way around that that doesn't involve faggot cosmetics shitting all over the game. I guess more sensible cosmetic cash shop options would be stuff like tattoos, skin options, or special hairstyles. Anything that makes your character stand out like a fucking firework totally throws off other players' sense of progression.

>>383759193
That's why they need to develop a game geared toward skill and teamwork against other players. Because unlike raid bosses, other players learn and get better. It's infinite replayability as long as there's a community.

>>383760889
Mobas have filled that niche. There's no reason an mmo couldn't learn a few things from them.

>>383743942
aww... c'mere little guy

*braap*

>>383752689
Friend keeps hyping up Pantheon to me

>>383761181
>trusting Brad McQuaid
Only once.

>>383760889
there's A LOT of weirdos on PVE/RP servers who have a very strange abhorrence of anything related to PvP
it's like they fume at the mouth any time they're killed by another player
i never understood it--just be indifferent to it all

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it's too late, if you weren't playing during 2004-2007 you missed out. If you didn't get to experience WoW, Guild Wars, and Runescape...rip in piss

>>383761301
There's only a lot of them because MMOs these days cater towards them. No MMOs focus on teamwork and competitive gameplay. MMOs are getting left in the dust by MOBAs and Survival games.

>>383743208
>2010
>no responses calling this guy a faggot after 4 hours of this post being made
god nu-/v/ is trash. of course RS was awesome, but any sane rational non-faggot quit playing RS by 2004-2007 at the latest to make the switch to WoW. i personally was a 2005 rs quitter.

>>383761301
This is true and it always strikes me as weird. There is a certain subset of players that loathe anything remotely involving pvp and consider anyone that participates to be sociopaths.
I wish I was making that up.
I'm certain it's simply a vocal group but it does get annoying reading it in the forums of any game ever made. They'll get especially livid if dying in pvp has any sort of consequences when realistically they shouldn't even be playing the game in the first place.

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>>383761301
A lot of people can't handle competition or losing. They try to teach little kids sportsmanship and how to lose gracefully but most kids don't play sports.

>>383761709
sup nu-/v/

>>383761709
wow was and will always be casual garbage blizzdrone

>>383762282
nigger i was 12 when i started playing WoW in vanilla. how the fuck is that casual.

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>>383749941
>says badass five different times

>>383740787

nailed it right on the head

/thread