Is Steel the worst tf2 map?

dustbowl exists

>is steel the worst TF2 map
Literally TONIGHT'S THE NIGHT

The answer is junction

turbine

only to people new to the map

>>383612616
.t got btfo by dustbowl veterans like myself

>>383612686
This, also 2fort

>>383612835
2fort is simple, straightforward, and iconic. Certainly not bad.

It's the best map.

>>383612394
any ctf map is

>>383612686
Right here. Fucking FUCK Junction

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All maps have shit points though.
Although Upward is generally pretty balanced, not many tight chokes.
EXCEPT FOR THE LAST FUCKING POINT, JESUS CHRIST, ITS ALWAYS 4-5 ENGIES WITH LEVEL 3'S

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>what is tc_hydro

>>383613520
Hydro a best eat a dick

>>383613385
At least it's not as bad as Barnblitz last

>>383612686
This. I personally find Steel's premise to be the most interesting thing I've ever seen when it comes to TF2's gamemodes.

>>383613520
only people who started playing before the year 2010 are allowed to have opinions on tc_hydro

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>>383612983
>having eternal stalemates caused by 50 bajillion sentries in the intel rooms is "not bad"

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Hydro is shit
Dustbowl is shit
ctf is shit
Junction is shit

the moon base one is a blast to play. Wish it was in rotation.

>>383613385
Thundermountain final section ruins the entire map

>>383612983
It was iconic because of a TF where it wasn't a sentry stalemate

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Upward is shit and doesn't deserve the popularity it has.

>>383612394
no, that would be turd-bine

>>383613632
>>383613950
There seems to be a common trend with Payload maps and final-points. I think it has a lot to do with the fact that the spawn is really close, and there is less flanking routes

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>>383612394
>Not Sunshine

>>383614028
It's fine until the last point then it falls apart.
Same with badwater. Frontier is "ok" until last then it's awful.
barnblitz is ohshitwhatareyoudoing last point
seems to be a problem with a lot of maps

Process will never be surpassed as the best 6s map of all time.

>>383614028
Why do you say that?
Upward is a great map, all up until the last point

Steel is the zenith of control point maps. The fact that it was community created just btfo everything valve ever made, as far as maps go.

>>383614056
It's because the final point is supposed to be the easiest to defend / hardest to push.

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>>383614181
>6s

>>383614056
Badwater is pretty okay with regards to that if only because the attackers automatically have the high ground to start with. If you got rid of that sniper lane that lets him basically hide inside the spawndoor in relative safety the last point would be a lot less of a pain to push into. Yeah there are sentries but again: having that highground makes pushing into the sentries far easier.

>>383612394
If you don't agree that hightower is the single worst map in TF2 then you are either autistic, a furry, a barneyfag, or some other piece of shit.

>>383614056
The problem is Thundermountains last section is just absolutely retarded to push, if the defenders are even semi competent, they can lock down the kart at several points

>>383612686
I kinda like how junction is a completely closed map

>>383614181
>6s
not the way tf2 was ever meant to be played
8v8 is the minimum

>ctrl+F "swiftwater"
>Zero results
Whoever designed that map needs to die.

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Suijin is a great map

>>383612394
No that titles belongs to 2fort.

why is ctf so bad?

>>383614487
It's made by competitive niggers for competitive niggers.

>>383614541
Then you got retards like this, who are also probably a pyro "main"

>>383614627
People have less tools for taking out sentries

>>383614541
It's not though, I can't think of one thing I like about that map
>>383614627
Literally engineer

>>383614413
Junction is a cramped spaghetti mess of hallways and doorways with an occasional bit of space to allow you to jump higher than waist height. Then there's the fact that most of the map is entirely flat with zero props to populate the space to make gunplay even interesting. Either someone sees you and shoots you and you shoot back or neither of you can see nor shoot each other. At least with other maps there are props that you can duck behind or climb on top of to gain something interesting to do with your positioning than just holding the highground like a braindead Heavy camping a dispenser and doing nothing else.

What is the best gamemode, and why is it Payload?

>>383614487
>comp niggers can't design a good map
this surprises you?
Comp niggers are responsible for TF2 almost dying, they wished on a monkey paw for
>EBIN MATCHMAKING xD
and nearly killed the game because it was so shit
why couldn't they have just stayed in their tiny community and left everyone else alone with their autism?

>>383614286
Are you dense? How can you not see the light that is the 6v6 meta of this dead game?

>>383614817
Agreed desu ne
Matchmaking should've been comp only and with a few servers instead of making all of them matchmaking
As people get more and more interested in comp and start giving more key revenue, incest it on more servers and quality of life fixes
Also should've given levels for different classes and matchmade based on that, along with Highlander option

>>383612623
There are over 50 fake door textures in the walls of junction The map maker must've had some sick chokepoint fetish

>>383615113
yeah but instead we got MM forced on normal players, which killed community servers and valve servers
now hackers run rampant
you can't spectate to prove that someone is cheating
it's STILL MISSING ARENA MODE AND SEVERAL MAPS
and the level shit is pointless, it only exists to placate the average "gamers" ADHD where you MUST BE REWARDED FOR PLAYING OTHERWISE THE GAME IS LITERALLY SHIT
had they just given matchmaking to the comp fags it would have been fine, but no, they forced this bullshit on everybody.

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>>383615173
>The map maker must've had some sick chokepoint fetish
so that's the guy who made OW's maps
really forces you to fire some neurons

tc_hydro
>>383613832
Good thing I started Halloween 2009

>>383615397
The two maybe three rounds only if you're lucky thing is very shit too
You either roll and only fight against 5 people next round or vice versa, and the round ends too quickly and everyone wants to change the maps so you can't have fun in your favourite maps for long
The level thing is just absolute bollocks since there's literally nothing you get except a new badge that's not even a cosmetic
And you get that plastered in the scoreboards so you can't act as if you are a complete noob anymore
If they revert this on the Pyro update and said "hey, we're sorry we fucked up so bad, here you go" I would go back to playing this game religiously.

>>383615173
Junction is unplayable. I do not understand how that one even became official.
Not only are the points 3 steps away from the spawns, the hallways are barely big enough for two people to go down the same time.
you cant even mitigate vertically because the ceiling is so fucking low.

>>383612394
Steel is the only AD map that gets played competitively what the hell are you talking about? Junction is a million times worse.

>>383612616
>>383612728
Casuals like me think the likes of you are even more casual.

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>>383613632
Barnblitz last has already been fixed in the pro version valve just refuses to update it.

Upward desperately needs a pro version to fix that abomination of a last point.

>>383616484
Nobody cares, compnigger.

>>383616639
>Barnblitz pro
>Removes snow
I'm perturbed

>>383612983
2fort is one of the worst maps in the game.
>NARROW HALLWAYS FUCKING EVERYWHERE
>Only two entrances to intel both of which run by enemy spawn
>Snipers dominate outside area, no open space for teams to fight in
>Engineer can cover three major areas with a single sentry
>Lower spawn area nobody uses
>One of the smallest maps in the game

>>383616892
I'm not happy about it either but it's for performance reasons.

>>383616831
>Pub shitter thinks his opinion matters when he only plays hightower and dustbowl

>>383616223
I just want them to add the fucking maps back
we are missing just off the top of my head
>entirety of arena mode
>robot destruction
>CTF Well and Sawmill
and like I said, that's just the start

>>383617084
They should just remove ctf altogether, those maps are all god awful. Arena deserves a spot way more than fucking 2fort.

>>383617041
>comp niggers think they matter when they are literally sub 1% of the playerbase
nobody cares about you autistic faggots after the MYM update
you fucks ruined everything with this matchmaking horseshit.

>>383617041
>Performance reasons
>For a 10 year old game

>>383617041
Fucking compniggers such as yourself have ruined the game. Everything bad that has happened has come from that retard streamer and compniggers such as yourself support him.

>>383617189
>remove a gamemode because I don't like it
fuck off retard
people like you are why we are still missing shit.

>>383614863
Because TF2 is a 12v12 experience and anything less than that it shit.

>>383617217
Le bloat hats, effects and cosmetics and shiet

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>>383617212
>>383617283
>comp players are irrelevant you guys don't play pubs
>but somehow casual is your fault because valve can do no wrong praise gaben

>>383617354
>complain about nadespam in TFC
>want TF2 to be played with a playercount that fills the map with all sorts of spam

No, you're thinking of 2fort.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gsefTAGwKuU

>>383617417
>ask for matchmaking
>valve gives everyone matchmaking
>IT'S WHAT THE COMMUNITY WANTS
Compniggers never should have asked for MM to begin with, so yes they are at as much fault as valve.
Everything was fine when those faggots stuck to their own servers and didn't interact with the normal playerbase.

>>383617362
Performance patch when?
Official cosmetics toggle when?

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>>383617580
>Official cosmetics toggle when?
Never. Now just open the fucking crates.

>>383617575
Nobody could have foreseen Valve would fuck up matchmaking that hard.

>>383617580
I just want an option to disable unusual effects

>>383617485
This desu, 8v8 all day

>>383617643
when has matchmaking EVER BEEN GOOD ON A PC GAME.
WHY DID ANYONE THINK MATCHMAKING WOULD BE GOOD ON TF2 WHEN IT WAS NEVER PART OF THE GAME TO BEGIN WITH.
YES I'M STILL MAD

>>383617662
I'd already be happy with proper LODs.
But no, I bet we just get new batches of hats that each have more polygons at a distance than an entire heavy.

>>383617743
How did valve implement matchmaking? I haven't played tf2 since tfgo update

>>383617287
>remove a gamemode because I don't like it
That's not the only reason though, CTF is objectively terrible and teaches new players bad habits. Engineers never move shit up they just sit in intel 24/7, snipers don't do anything but duel each other, demos just spawn camp and players aren't encouraged to go for the objective and just deathmatch 99% of the time. You need 24 players to fill up the server the more maps there are the more fractured the playerbase is going to be and harder it is to find a game. I'd rather matchmaking have a few good maps than a bunch of bad ones.

>>383617743
Nobody knew valve was going to add casual matchmaking until the day it was released. We were told there would be ranked matchmaking and that's all.

>>383616484
i miss gravelpit desu

>>383617901
>Everyone has to wait to get put into a server instead of using server browser
>It can still end up randomly imbalanced like usual
>But now you can't switch teams unless prompted to when winning and there's no auto balance
>People leaving takes forever to be replaced because of said matchmaking
>Ends up in eternal roll cycle where either your team is too weak or their team is too weak, hardly any fair matches
>also you can only play for a couple rounds, three maximum, before the server stops the game and asks you whether or not you want to change maps which only gives you two options

>>383617901
horribly
imagine you can click a button for a gamemode you want to play and it puts you in a vanilla server
things are grand, all maps and modes are available, you can switch teams, join spectator and fuck around and do waht you want
then they replace that with a waiting time (can vary heavily depending on what map you want to play) that matches you with 20 other chucklefucks (or puts you in a match where you're getting stomped), you can't spectate, can't change teams at will, can't see sprays unless you've seen it previously in a normal server
a lot of maps are missing, and entire gamemodes are gone (arena)
and what do we get for all of this?
a stupid fucking coin for retarded autistic children that make up the gaming community now to show that they
>YEAH I PLAYED A GAME AND MADE PROGRESS, I DON'T LIKE PLAYING GAMES FOR THE GAME THEMSELVES, I DEMAND A SHITTY PROGRESSION SYSTEM
this is "casual" matchmaking

>>383614541
-t.sniper main

>>383618274
the point is Matchmaking never should have been asked for in the first place
remember when people "boycotted" games like MW2 because they added matchmaking opposed to community servers? WE DIDN'T NEED MATCHMAKING.

>>383617743
Matchmaking works well in pretty much all titles, it's just that most of them are shit to begin with.

>>383618587
>the point is Matchmaking never should have been asked for in the first place
nobody fucking asked for casual matchmaking you retarded child.

>>383612983
it's objectively the worst map in the game
i have never seen a serious 2fort game because there is NOTHING that can be done on the map in terms of progression
i am sure there is a section of hell that has the same layout

>>383618694
I'm saying in general you illiterate moron
Why did comp players need matchmaking? What was wrong with the system they had? Asking for Matchmaking (even though it was for comp only) opened pandoras fucking box and now we're stuck with it for both comp and normal. One of which is dogshit and the other of which is dead.

>no items whatsoever
>cant buy or trade shit untill the 30th july
>need some variety
how to get shit? how many drops per week?

>>383618576
Scoot actually

Standin is the greatest map ever created and I'm not even a soldier fag

>>383619010
I bet you use the force-a-nature to knock people off cliffs you monster

>>383618329
So the best way to play matches is to just use community servers now? I don't even know how you can fuck it up this bad
>>383618361
>can't see sprays unless you've seen it previously in a normal server
what the fuck? how does that work, do I just have to hope to come across a spray and then I can actually see it on community servers?

>>383618843
>with the system they had
Why do you even try to talk about shit you have no idea about to begin with?

>>383619160
>implying anyone is anywhere near a cliff on that map

>>383619162
>what the fuck? how does that work, do I just have to hope to come across a spray and then I can actually see it on community servers?
that's exactly how it works
you have to see it in a community server first
then hope a player in a matchmaking server uses it in order to see it
Also I forgot to mention, you can't join matchmaking in progress if your game crashes or disconnects, I've had friends drop and not be able to reconnect, so we had to search all fucking over again.

>>383619223
That's not answer my question you fucking faggot
Comp existed before the MYM update, they had a system to set up matches, from what I remember, it worked, so why ask for matchmaking? Why fix what isn't broken

>>383619162
Good luck finding a good vanilla game in the midst of jump maps, slender fortress and zombie mod, anon.

>>383618843
Im sure it wont end, the people at Valve are probably still butthurt over Overwatch so their solution will be to make TF2 even more like it. I expect the Pyro update to be one of the last nails in the TF2 coffin since it looks like they're going to start balancing for what players find annoying instead of what's OP/UP.

>>383618939
Generally depends due to the system being related to play time, but on average you'll get around 8 items over 10 hours of play a week. Playing over 10 hours won't give you additional drops. Getting hats will require trading; you can craft weapons into scrap, which can then be refined and traded for hats you want, but this process will take time to do, and you'll have to look up prices for items you're interested in.

>>383619160
FaN is legit my favorite gun aye

>>383619472
For what it's worth most of the balance changes were pretty good, and some were questionable, I know that's not all of them. I just want TF2 to be great again, I love the game, it's probably my most played game ever. We are all in this thread because we love the game, despite the fuckery that's been happening.
We are also supposed to be getting a comic and a new animated short with this coming update. So we get to look forward to that.

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>>383619472
Considering one of their stated goals is to have all weapons have the same usage rate, things are going to get super shitty.

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>>383619549
>what items you need
which milestone do you get the crusaders crossbow/the huntsman? need them for medieval mode

i dont even have a gibus lmao

>>383619616
I actually use it to make people fly, but never in pits or stuff, it's underused tbqh.

>>383612394
*2fort

>>383619638
TF2 you love is gone forever. NuFortress 2 is here to stay.

>tfw building a new PC soon
>TF2 is the game I'm most excited to play again
my toaster is so shit that on literally the worst graphics I couldn't play TF2 above 30 fps, I've been having to play RoR and 100% OJ nearly exclusively

>>383619726
>there can't be niche weapons

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>>383618843
>I'm saying in general you illiterate moron
Wanting official valve competitive support is not the same thing as "hey lets throw out pubs for no reason while we're at it".

>Why did comp players need matchmaking?
Because having to use fucking tf2center to organize matches can take hours and wasn't convenient. New players don't even realize competitive exists because they're never exposed to it either.

>opened pandoras fucking box
No you just have battered wife syndrome like every pub shitter
>It's not valves fault for adding shit to the game nobody asked for
>It's not valves fault for making the game a bloated fucking mess with poorly optimized cosmetics
>It's not valves fault for destroying community servers with quickplay
>It's not valves fault that the economy is crashing with tiered crate bullshit and nothing to spend metal on
>It's not valves fault for fucking over workshop creators by removing hats from the store and not paying them on time
>It's not valves fault for leaving asteroid and cactus canyon unfinished
>It's not valves fault for neglecting mvm even though there is tons of community content for it
>It's not valves fault for skipping multiple updates because they can't be bothered to work on the game
>It's not valves fault for ignoring major bugs in the game that have been around since release
>It's not valves fault that they haven't made an actual game in years and keep milking tf2 for all its worth like the greedy kikes they are
Get Gabe's cock out of your ass and maybe you'll realize who is actually shitting up the game, valve drones are fucking pathetic.

>>383619839
Ummm don't you think niche weapons are a bit problematic sweetie?

>>383619753
The crossbow doesn't have a milestone, so the options you have are to trade for it, craft it or hope that one drops. The Huntsman milestone is milestone 1 (5 achievements). The game has a wiki, I'd recommend looking on that if you're looking for more info.

>>383619285
You can rejoin matches if you're fast enough.

t. someone who played it once and got fucking lost
steel is literally the best map

>>383619726
How is this a bad thing? Don't you want every weapon to be useful?

>>383619726
How the hell are you supposed to balance out the number of people who use joke weapons like sticky jumper + the caber
and for that matter shitty weapons like the pain train, which only have a situational use in the first place

>>383619870
>Wanting official valve competitive support
never should have asked for this to begin with
nothing is worse than the developers getting involved with this shit, it always ends poorly

>New players don't even realize competitive exists because they're never exposed to it either.
And they still don't play it because the MM is dead and shit and almost fundamentally different from normal TF2

>No you just have battered wife syndrome like every pub shitter
I never said I didn't blame Valve, Valve has fucked this game for years, but if you think the comp community doesn't hold any of the blame then you are fucking delusional. I know valve has fucked up, I've done nothing but put blame on them for the state of this game. But sometimes the community fucks up too.

>>383620231
Look forward to weapons becoming generic modifiers and losing their uniqueness. Get ready for more weapons to be neutered like they did with caber.

>>383620302
>but if you think the comp community doesn't hold any of the blame
State what the comp community has done wrong

>>383620154
That's the problem, a CTD or sudden internet blackout (my friend's internet provider has yet to fix the wire near his house) won't allow you to rejoin fast enough.

>>383620401
>like the caber
The caber was a pussy kamikaze weapon. It deserved to be nerfed.

>>383612394
Turbine exists

>>383620486
It was a joke weapon. But, let's take another example. They want the sticky launcher to be used as much as the sticky jumper. How the fuck is that going to work?

>>383620430
That's kind of a specific circumstance. I agree though. Sometimes you just want to see someone is online and join their game real quick. I barely ever queue with anyone since it's a hassle.

>>383620486
Medics are game changingly OP with just a right click, they deserve to be blown up

>>383614541
>cut off half of the entire map
>matches wouldn't change at all because that entire side is a meaningless ghost town

>>383620412
Asking for matchmaking of any sort.
Expecting valve not to fuck up something as huge as matchmaking.
Getting balance changes based around comp instead of normal TF2 (wave goodbye to unique weapons at this point)
Remember this is the same company that had to remove Snowplow because "it was too difficult for people to understand" from the End of the Line update.

>>383619764
I try to push people into pits when I can but I mostly use it for cockblocking medics and heavies off of points/away from each other

>>383620601
it's a real fucking hassle
>playing TF2 with a friend
>about to win
>friend wants to join
>can't join and stay with us
>we have to finish the match in a timely manner or leave just so he can join

>>383620594
>It was a joke weapon
Yeah. You're losing a fight? Whip it out and everyone dies. Hilarious.
They'll probably give him the market gardener or some shit. Not that I really agree that any of the jumpers should be used as much as regular weapons, but I do think that lesser used weapons should be viable.

>>383620594
>They want the sticky launcher to be used as much as the sticky jumper. How the fuck is that going to work?
give the sticky jumper it's 8 bombs back
I miss teleporting

>>383620794
I can't remember a time ever where the caber turned the tide of a fight and the team with the caber demo won.

>Release new imbalanced OPÖ weapon
>Wait for the cash shop dosh to roll in
>Wait until sales comes to a near stop
>"rebalance" it so it's useless
Rince and repeat.

>>383620302
>never should have asked for this to begin with
Why the fuck not? If valve hadn't half assed the update and gotten rid of pubs then how would competitive existing as a seperate mode affect you in the slightest? You're just a butthurt child looking for a scapegoat.

>nothing is worse than the developers getting involved with this shit
Worked just fine for their other games.

>And they still don't play it because the MM is dead and shit and almost fundamentally different from normal TF2
They don't play it because it's filled with hackers, there are no placement matches, settings are locked, you can't choose maps and the ones available are shit, there is no elo system, and no weapon or unlock limits leads to gay shit like 6 crit a cola scouts stomping every game. Things that comp players pointed out in the beta and valve did absolutely nothing to fix. CS GO and Dota both have mature competitive modes that have none of these issues, this isn't the first time they've done competitive matchmaking there is no excuse for this.

>but if you think the comp community doesn't hold any of the blame then you are fucking delusional
What the fuck did they do? These comp players who don't give a shit about pubs are responsible for valve ruining them? You're fucking retarded.

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SOON

>>383620672
>Expecting valve not to fuck up something as huge as matchmaking.
Next level mental gymnastics here.
>Don't ask valve to do anything because they'll fuck it up and then it'll be your fault
Holy shit you are one delusional retard

>>383620953
I didn't say it was a game changer. It basically nullified any encounter between two people. It just wasn't fun to fight people who were using it.

Let's face it, valve made this game good by accident, but they broke it on purpose.

>>383620953
>put on sticky jumper
>fly into the medic
>hit ground next to him
>uber into enemy team for free

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>>383621074
...RIGHT?

>>383620970
>then how would competitive existing as a seperate mode affect you in the slightest?
it wouldn't but you're out of your mind if you didn't think valve was going to implement casual as well, I knew the second I heard about matchmaking it was going to be bad for everyone involved.

>>383621125
>having expectations in valve
>don't ask valve to do anything
yes that's right, they can't be trusted. Especially not anymore
if this coming update isn't picture perfect then it's safe to write off TF2 as abandonware. Because Valve has had nothing but a string of colossal fuckups for what seems like years now.

>>383621215
I don't think it's possible to make a game over nine years of development on accident.

>>383620672
>Asking for matchmaking of any sort.
Wrong, tf2 lobbies have always been a hot mess, especially with how much the community is split up. Asking for an official mode was completely natural, especially since they just needed to copy CSGO and be done with it. It wasn't a huge thing, nobody could've expected this much of a mess and you know it.

>Getting balance changes based around comp instead of normal TF2
You know, this might be a good point, if Valve ever listened to compfags about weapons ever. With the exception of what happened to the Degreaser, the upcoming patch is probably the first time they ever listened, and those changes look fine so far. I agree that the "what's good for comp is good for pubs" sentiment you often hear to make the game fox only final destination is absolute horse shit, though. Remember this is the same company that nerfed the Bison.

>>383621153
That is an alright outlook on it I guess. At the same time, why don't we nerf sniper because he's not fun to play against?

>>383621231
Oh, are you talking about comp? Leave compnigger

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>>383612394
So when did you kids start playing? Autumn 2008 here.
When did you accept that there was no escape from this game?

>>383621473
>it wouldn't but you're out of your mind if you didn't think valve was going to implement casual as well
really point out to me all these people who predicted casual was coming before the update if it was so obvious.

>>383621638
I uninstalled after 5200 hours. Shit game.

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1 YEAR, 5 DAYS
GIVE IT UP FOR 1 YEAR, 5 DAYS SINCE MYM WAS ANNOUNCED

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>>383621595
>Oh, are you talking about comp? Leave compnigger

>>383621529
They also nerfed the caber and the sticky jumper

>>383621638
2007, originally on Xbox 360, then to PC in 2009
>When did you accept that there was no escape from this game?
I almost uninstalled after the MYM update, Valve fucks up again and it will probably happen.

>>383621663
Didn't you know? Casual matchmaking is the hot new meme for games now a days, although i'm almost certain that they pushed casual just to compete with Overwatch.

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>there are people on /v/ RIGHT NOW who think Steel isn't the best map because they STILL get lost and are too dumb to learn it after a few rounds
Embarrassing. Perhaps this ms paint sketch is more your speed.

>>383619549
Hey, you can get hats via drops, it's just extra rare.
>t. proud owner of pocket koala since last week

>>383621595
I think TF2 would be much better without Sniper, but at this point what the fuck do you do

>>383621887
Steel is fantastic

>>383621887
Steel is shit

how to fix caber
>further reduce base explosion damage
>crits while explosive jumping
>uses pre-gunmettle explosion on crit while unexploded
>remove deploy penalties
>slightly less base melee damage
>no random crits

>>383622117
better idea
>999 damage to snipers
>1 damage to everyone else

>>383621887
Steel is okay

>>383622117
>turn it into another market gardener
No go fuck yourself.

>>383622117
you mean
>caber
>kills snipers in one hit regardless of health
>does 120 damage to everyone else even when critting
>allows sticky jumper to place 8 bombs
there balanced

>>383622117
Just make the explosion have falloff damage, so you have to get really close to a medic to gib him. I don't know why every weapon needs to have a fucking gimmick.

>>383622269
>not enjoying market gardener
sorry you can't have fun dude, it's easily the most fun melee for stock + gunboats soldier

>>383621887

Steel is my favorite map

>>383622571
I have fun with market gardener just fine, but holy fuck, demo doesn't need everything soldier gets. Why can't the caber be its own unique thing?

Does the iron bomber bridge the skill gap with the stock grenade launcher too much?

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>>383622672
>mfw demo could've had the gunboats

>>383622856
Fuck demo

>>383622672
Because it WAS unique and clearly valve didn't like that, and to be fair, explosive jumping is really fun. Making weapons that encourage explosive jumping are also usually fun.

>>383622856
Demo never would have gunboats. Valve went so far as to rig the contest.

>>383622796
Iron bomber needs a nerf, it's a direct upgrade

>>383622856
Demo with gunboats would be worthless though.

>>383620794
>every fight happens in melee range
>all classes are slower than demoman
How many times you were exploded while camping on 2fort balcony?

>>383622856
honestly this >>383622976 is probably true, since they were giving demo the targe and another movement option would have been useless

>>383623001
just remove the fuse time bonus
there, balanced

>>383623043
not if it was for the primary slot

How to bring FaN in line with the other scatterguns:

>reduce spread

>>383623352
Nah even then. It would need much better stats to work if he only had a sticky launcher.

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>>383623497
>long range fan knockback

Will this update even reach the same level of content as the Uber update? They're hyping it up to be their "biggest update", but I doubt more than two sets will be released.

>>383623598
Booties used to be run at high level play and that only had +25hp and some movement speed. Gunboats for demo would be very viable.

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>>383622856
SCOTLAND IS NOT A REAL COUNTRY! YOU ARE A NIGGER IN A DRESS!

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>>383623913
>those soldier lines that mock the australian L4D2 censorship

>>383623913
how did valve get away with this

>>383624000
Nice trips, also the original line is Englishman in a dress, and this is a stereotypical jingoist American, a stereotype that is so extreme, that only this character would say it

>>383622856
>lol just less explosive damage
>but yoou gotta get rid of your pipes
"Nah"

>>383623820
Man imagine if Soldier had the Eyelander and Targe.
Say, why doesn't the Quickiebomb launcher do less blast jump damage? And why doesn't the Targe's resistence apply to self-damage?

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>>383624159
>lol just less explosive damage
>but you gotta get rid of your shotgun
nobody will use this

>>383623987
oh god what were they?

>>383624261
Pipes are a hell of a lot better than shotgun boy.

>>383624261
Thats different because Soldier doesnt have 2 explosive weapon slots.
Demo with gunboats isnt necessary and would gut his ass further

>worst map in tf2 thread
>not a single mention of Granary

>>383624261
Liberty Launcher + Gunboats is great, gunboats are a lesser used option though

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HAHA HAHA HAHA
*smack*
"Good day engineer"
dummy
*crits with wrench*
AARRRGGHH

>>383624378
No they aren't, you think demo wouldn't take shotgun if it was available to him? Hitscan > Projectile

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>>383622117
>Insta-kills all players without 1 pyro on their team
>When 1 pyro is present on designated team, still insta-kills medics and snipers

>>383623729
Fug you it'd be fun

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>>383612394
Steel is a good map, not even memeing.

>>383624594
I play a lot of demo. I've thought about having a hitscan weapon. But these two explosives are so satisfying, I'm not sure I could actually give either up.

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>>383619764
its actually a pretty shit weapon but still every single time i use it
>FaN SHITTER

>>383615987
>Halloween 2009
Noob. Practically F2P.

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>payload almost near drop
>announcer tells us there's 30 seconds left on the clock
>BLU suddenly remembers there's a payload that needs pushing

>>383624286
>Aww, am I too violent for you, cupcake?
>Your country did not prepare you for the level of violence you will meet on my battlefield!

I still don't understand why Valve didn't just put an ban on certain gimmick weapons in competitive mode instead of nerfing them into the ground. The VAST fucking majority of players are solely in the casual sector, so what's wrong with having a few dumb weapons?

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>one of my favorite maps, perhaps my favorite map period is Sawmill
>only KOTH version is in Casual map selection (?)
>nobody EVER plays it except by mistake
I guess I just got shit taste

>>383621887
Steel is something

>>383625763
You're not alone, ctf_sawmill is one of my favorites (and also one of the first I've ever played) but Valve for whatever reason stripped it out of Casual.

>>383612394
So tonight's the night huh you fucking asshole?

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>>383612394

>>383621903
I would unironically give sniper something like a 7 second cooldown after every headshot before he can headshot again. Fuck anything Sniper represents (gameplay wise)

>>383626270
name one game that benefits from snipers
after that
name one game that wouldn't benefit from the removal of snipers

>>383626652
TF2

COD4

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>>383625763
ctf_sawmill was the true mans sport.
>>383626270
>7 second cooldown on headshots
>as a swarm of enemies come forth, you cant do shit cuz your on cooldown

>>383626652
Metal Gear Solid 3 for the end's boss fight, but I don't really know a game that I would like less for removing snipers

>>383626790
Because the sniper is supposed to take on a horde of enemies at once right

Sniper the ultimate crowd control class and the ultimate pick class

>>383625184
Jokes on you, I quit when they killed TF2 with the cash shop.

>>383627065
So if a bunch of faggots are on the payload and your team is being dirt worthess, surprise surprise, are you headshot the demo instead of the medic, do you just accept the carts fate and let it get pushed?

>>383626812
Nah. I just ran around and punched the shit out of his wheelchair.

>>383626270
t. keeps getting headshot

>>383626652
I don't know, I don't want Sniper to be removed outright because I love all of the classes' personalities and he still fun to play and all
But being I a shitter, I absolutely despise competent snipers like no other class. A good scout or soldier or spy deserves to be wasting me because he got close and personal and then beat me with superior skill (or at the very least he took risks by attacking me).
But the fact a Sniper can instantly kill you without you seeing it coming and with very little risk just makes me mad as fuck. Whenever I play Sniper I use the piss rifle and mostly aim at enemy Snipers because I'm aware that playing the class 'as intended' is absolute no fun allowed for everyone else

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>People shitting on Hydro

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>>383626270
>design a game and balance it around mid to close range combat
>add a class that can instant kill from long distance with little to no danger

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>Elder Dragon God tier
Swiftwater

>Elder God tier
Steel
Thunder Mountain
Powerhouse
Dustbowl (RED only)

>God tier
Frieght
Mountain Lab
Ctf_Sawmill
5Gorge
Borneo
Barnblitz

>Dragon tier
Cactus Canyon
Hoodoo
Snowycoast

>Great tier
Watchtower
2Fort
Process
Landfall
Nightfall

>Good tier
Kong King
Highpass
Suijin
Upward
Standin
Sunshine
Coldfront
Vanguard
Gravel Pit
Snowplow
Junction
Badwater Basin

>Meh tier
cp_Well
ctf_well
Gold Rush
Foundry
Metalworks
Badlands
Frontier
Snakewater
Gullywash

>Bad tier
Nucleus
Viaduct
Double Cross
Fastlane
Granary
Yukon
Pipeline

>Shit tier
Harvest
Lakeside
Dustbowl (BLU only)
Turbine
Egypt

>Kill yourself
Hightower
Degroot Keep
Hydro

>>383627339
It's a cool idea, I'll give you that. But none of the maps are fun to play on. With better map layouts, TC could be high tier.

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>>383627343
>>design a game and balance it around mid to close range combat
>add a class that can instant kill from behind and turn invisible with little danger

>>383627503
It used to be a giant switchblade true to life, now it's a cuck knife

>>383621887
Steel is I don't know

>>383627360

Do MvM maps now

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>>383614541
>played a beta version with a bunch of people during a tf2maps daily testing thing
>the side area with the waterfall was not closed off
>you could go on the cliff, and put a sentry behind the waterfall or even snipe/spam explosives from it
>mfw the mods got mad and told everyone to knock it off.
It was also arena and had ufos that would pick you up and be able to get quick access to roofs like the one in watergate.

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>>383627771
MvM:

Shit floating in a sewer tier:
All maps

>try to find a full movie to micspam
>end up just gettin old memes

>>383627503
>with little danger
How about the fact I have to cross an entire battlefield of crazed pissmen, rockets flying everywhere, bullets syringes and flamethrowers plus narrow hallways where to bump into people
Reminder if you're playing pyro you can just wave your flamethrower around you like a mentally retarded monkey and this will create a 5 meter ring of spychecking flame wall for any frenchman nearby

>>383612394
Steel is the best map.

>>383627954
Unless the enemy team knows theres a spy or has a brain, there is little danger.
Sure theres gonna be projectiles up the wazoo but you can easily avoid this by taking backroads

>>383627945
>micspam
Doing God's work son
>mfw if someone micspams a song or video or even just talks with the mic, there's always those few faggots that try to mute him
Thankfully the vote usually fails unless it's straight up ear rape

>>383627503
Really spy is just a testament to the flexibility of TF2. I'd say the spy is fair if you don't have the type that throw themselves in waves and eventually get a backstab through sheer persistence. Also I love spy but the dead ringer still needs to be changed or removed

>>383628143
>>383627945
Ah the 12 year old micspammers. I didn't know they still played.

>>383628203
>heh, thing i dont like, better call them underage
sure showed me!!truly i am BTFO!

>>383627503
>little to no danger
>Spy

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>ctf_well still isnt back in casual mode

What the fuck valve? Its your best official ctf map.

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>>383627360
>Cactus Canyon

>>383628272
What does micspam add to a server except annoyance and the inability to hear spy decloaks?

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Best map.

RIP

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Why are pyro mains such absolute cancer?

>>383628559
TWO SANDVICHES

>>383628676
>what does it add
background music

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>>383628726
deet deet

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>>383628559
>ctf

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>>383628719
>you will never direct valve server retards while defending the intel area with only 1 sentry and 3 heavies with no medics again

>>383628769
2 UBERS

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hd-AFqpnOKM

>>383627945
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TXuitQ_nY-E

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>>383628726
>mains
LMAO

>>383628772
disgustingly low quality garble

>someone mic spamming
>instead of just muting him retards lose their shit and try to kick/ban him
what the fuck is wrong with people

>>383628908
gmod videos are an underrated artform

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>>383628726
>he doesnt main pyro

>>383628858
HEAVY GETS 2 UBERS????
ALL HIS TEAMMATES GOT 1 UBER, THIS IS AN OUTRAGE, HEAVY NEEDS TO BE NERFED!

>>383629134
your opinion

>>383627945
>>383628923
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rCLskTBwBfk

>>383629146
Pressing F1 is easier than stopping and going into the mute menu if you're not dead. Also, the retards at the bottom of the scoreboard are not going to mute the idiot, so communication is completely fucked until they're kicked

>>383629193
TF2 VOIP is objectively low quality. It sounds bad.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lw5--EIIkbA

>>383629193
>>he doesnt main pyro
I bet whenever you encounter a soldier you stand there like an idiot waiting for him to shoot because you think you're a soldier counter or some stupid shit, you """people""" always do that.

>>383628908
Whatever happened to this dude?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hpdq2Hql0b0

>>383629306
i thought you meant all micspam was shit, SLAM and VAC are really high quality though, too bad i still use HLDJ

>>383629436
>muh airblast
shotgun + fireaxe

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>>383629436
>sets you on fire, airblasts you and reserve shoots you twice
>heh, Huddah huddah huh

>>383612394
Actually the best.
I guess theme park MMOs and linear as fuck shooters are more to your liking

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HOLY SHIT CHECK YOUR DOWNLOADS

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>>383629731
HOLY SHIT GARRYS MOD FINISHED DOWNLOADING

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>>383629731
YOU'RE FAKE NEWS

Best game mode? I vote payload.

>>383629952
my nigga

>>383628676
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Nbt4R5Qdx4

>>383629512
>shotgun + fireaxe
>not using scorch shot
>>>Using the fireaxe

I want to kill myself. If this update is shit I'm gonna go buy bullets for my gun.

>>383630016
You nerf bullets wont do you any good.

>>383629952
I won't say it's the best, but A/D is my favorite.

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>>383629731
>know the update isn't out
>check anyway
>see the tf2 icon
>it's workshop content

Honestly my most hated map is the redone 2fort.

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>>383630004
>he doesnt run default on every class
ISHYGDDT

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WHO TEEK HERE?

>>383630258
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J3oKgHKDztw
I miss the teek.

>>383630230
>that intro
WEW
wish i could say the same for the gameplay footage

>>383630227
You mean the one with the invasion update? Why do you think it's worse than regular 2fort?

>>383630227
You mean the invasion one? That one is absolute ass desu

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>>383630354
>>383630373
invasionmind

>>383627360
>Double cross in bad tier
ill kill you

nope, thats turdbine
>indoor, so hinders rocket jumping
>incredibly large amounts of chokeholds
>the single alternate path can be contested by ONE demoman spamming grenades
>ctf
>incredibly easy to lock down with a sentry
search deep within your heart, you know it is true

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>>383630230
post the you know what one

>>383630258
>>383630302
Touhou Fortress > Teek

;_;

>>383627945
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZ4lCnZ-WyA
name something better to micspam, you can't

>>383630650
was "the one" supposed to be impressive

>>383628726
Yiff ^_^

>>383628834
Fuck your picture's background, it reminded me how good Manor is and how impossible it is to find a server running it

>>383627360
>>383630540
Of all the shit taste in the list this is by far the most egregious example.

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>>383630258
I tried

>>383622856
but gunboats is a 2ndary so..

>>383631054
>someone made a meme of my shitpost screenshot

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

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>>383630650
Save it, it's all yours my friend.

>playing tf2 at all

shit taste

>>383631130
What was the thought process when he made this

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>>383631227
>playing tf2
>not setting up stocks and gaining dosh from it

>>383631130
what did he really mean by this

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>>383614487
I hate Swiftwater and Cashworks. Community payload maps are usually trash unless they're not trying to be "official".

PL_Cranetop is GOAT

>>383627805
Chances are that I was in the same playtest as you then Ya cunt

stock melee is best

>>383628719
was it always incredibly easy to spawncamp the second spawns on this? Every time I played it there was always a solid five minutes minimum of spawn camping

>those balance changes

Seriously, what are they thinking? The guillotine isn't especially strong at the moment, why take away its damage?

>>383632480
>what is mackerel
>what is disciplinary action
>what is homewrecker

>>383632561
They're doing what they should'int be doing. Listening to shitters. Look at the fucking Amby nerf and ask yourself if any spy worth his salt will use it after the nerf. The answer is no.

>>383632760
>Mfw a free to play spy thinks im hacking because I destroyed the sapper of an engies building with homewrecker

>>383621887
steel aren't gay

>>383632893
They're talking directly to pro players. B4nny is a massive influence, if not the only influence, on the current TF Team's balance changes.

>>383633096
Can't wait for the Pro update to fuck it even further by following the rant he did.

>>383633215
Pyro*

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>nobody even remembers arena mode

>>383632972
mfw no face

>>383633389
They need to convert all the Arena maps into KOTH maps. They're some of the best looking ones.

>>383621887
Steel is one of my favorite community maps. It's got a unique capture point gimmick, and on top of that has some of the best detailing I've seen, comparable to Valve maps like 2fort which look gorgeous. All of the spaces in the map are very unique too.
A lot of community maps skimp out on interesting visual variety and detailing in favor of dime-a-dozen prop use like "wooden spools behind netting" and "other props behind netting". There's a trend among more popular map makers in the community where every building has to look like swiss cheese and have random walls missing and shit and have every room look empty and boring, which makes memorizing the layout of the map frustrating (borneo is a great example, every building looks like the last, there's very little interesting detailing, the final point is ugly as shit, and in general the map doesn't look like a "jungle" at all outside of the trees having a few vines on them). Plus everything has to be a sterile "competitive" map like process or sunshine now, with one unique set piece to set them apart like a lighthouse or something, but they're otherwise just generic alpine/desert/etc templates with concepts stolen from other better maps like a spiral point or some other dumb shit.
I haven't had many fun games on steel unfortunately though, mostly because people are too stupid to comprehend how it works. Also the map is admittedly very cramped.

Match making servers down?

>>383633389
Arena mode is honestly one of the most fun modes. Nocrit, nospread, no first blood arena mode with class limits would be amazing.

>all these people bitching about 2fort stalemates
>I join server as a scout with scattergun, bonk, and normal bat and end up getting 3 caps on the intel within 5-10 minutes

the rest of the team is busy fucking around while I'm busy actually earning the fucking objective

>>383633215
>following the rant he did.
sauce
i need to see an autistic rant

>>383633694
Yeah they're the only ones down right now.
https://steamstat.us/

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>>383633816
>nocrit

Fuck off

>>383633941
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y5pZgph_ZaU

His main point is that the Degreaser should have a significantly higher airblast cost, which would really gut the thing given how airblasting is most useful when you're quickly switching between your weapons.

>>383633671
>Plus everything has to be a sterile "competitive" map like process or sunshine now

Holy fuck I hate these competitive maps. They're boring as fuck to play on. They're boring as fuck to look at. Valve keeps throwing them in with every update because they think if the competitive community already likes them, there's no work that needs to be done on their part.

Valve's focus on competitive is hopeless. Competitive should have existed in its own separate realm, developed by its own community. Casual TF2 is the heart and soul of TF2. It's just a no-brainer team-based shooter with tons of personality. TF2 is for the fun moments. People who want to play seriously DON'T NEED VALVE TO SUPPORT THEM. Competitive communities always survive on their own. The only reason they want attention from developers is so they can be Twitch Official™ and make some money.

Competitive TF2 is souless. It's not fun to watch outside of some highlight videos. It's even a hell of a lot less fun to participate in if you're not actually taking competitive seriously. Honestly, I have nothing against pro players. I get why people do it. I've thought about it myself. But holy hell do I hate these competitive aspects being jammed into the main focus of TF2's latest balancing and content updates.

>>383634228
who cares about the compfags anyway
they're like 1% of the playerbase

>>383612394
No, Steel is actually fun if you play with a serverfull of non-retards that understand how the map works, unlike Junction which is ALWAYS garbage.

>>383633671
Process is an amazing map though.

>>383632561
It's just a dumb gimmick weapon.
>Tiny projectile you can barely see moving at 200ft/s
>Does 90 damage
>Scout gets a new one every 6s
It's not like a pipe or something that is fairly slow and easy to spot you'll just be walking around and get hit in the head with this thing from a mile away.

>>383634206
>defending getting undeserved kills at complete random in a mode without respawns
lol

File: fiery jinx.png (73KB, 359x755px) Image search: [Google]

73KB, 359x755px

>>383628829
I like mine better

>>383634228

I find competitive maps to be 100x better than most casual maps. I'd rather play badlands or granary 1000 times before I play dustbowl or 2fort again

>>383634212
He's right though, there is absolutely no reason to take stock right now because pyros most important tool (airblast) is just as good on the degreaser. The degreaser is used primarily to combo with shotgun/flare he doesn't need 10 airblasts to do that.

>>383634365
I was complaining about the visuals