Why does Blizzard nerf all the fun characters?

>"we want to Mccree to be a counter to mobile characters like Genji and Tracer"
>gets countered by dive comp
Lmao good job Blizzard.

>>383496931
TF2fag here, what's Divecomp?

Uber meta is best meta

Junkrat is pretty fun and effective

>>383496791

>play mccree
>headshot flying pharah twice
>still not enough to kill her

I can't finish off a pharah as mccree or soldier

>>383497856
the damage isn't the same at all ranges
two proper headshots do 280 dmg which is enough

>>383496791
Because Jeff has more hours in the game than you

>>383497220
A comp focused around mobile, usually squishy heroes jumping on and overwhelming the opposition.

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>>383496791
Why do people think Blizzard can balance shit when they haven't been able to ever balance WoW? You should have known this before OW was even released.

>>383496791
it is annoying how not useful this fucker is. Niggaman is great, a good sombra with emp is useful, tracer can carry a team, soldier can heal and do more damage. Even fuckin reaper can at least fuck people up if the team isn't awful but there's nothing mccree does that soldier can't do. Plus his bullet speed is annoying and his ult just isn't that useful even after the buff.

>snipe pharah flying a mile away as mccree in the head
>do maybe like 40 damage
>tap fire her a bit as Soldier from the same range
>she's fucking dead
They need to delete soldier, he does the same job as McCree but better and easier. The defense categories are too crowded anyway

>>383497220
pick characters that are fast and charge straight into the enemy team in order to overwhelm and usually kill them
>Necessity
Lucio (speed)
Winston (high hp, barrier, and a gun that hits multiple targets)
>2-3 DPS
Tracer (high mobility and good damage)
Genji (same as tracer)
Pharah (high damaging rockets and forces enemies to divide their attention)
>Another Tank
D.Va (deletes enemy bullets + has a second life)
Zarya (shields that absorb damage so zarya can up her own damage)
>Another Healer
Mercy (works great with pharah, can resurrect dead allies)
Zenyatta (damage amp on enemies makes it easier to wipe them)
Ana (put enemies to sleep, stop them from healing, and powercharge an ally to wipe easier)

>>383497220
Stacking the most mobile heroes on attack to bypass the enemy defense rather than break through it.

>>383499176
You typically pick soldier instead of pharah, he's the only one that can bust Winston's barrier fast

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>practice mccree for weeks
>pays off, wiping the floor with shitters
>headshotting genjis, tracers, and widows all day every day
>blizzard nerfs him into the dirt
fuck you jeff

because thats what "game balance" is:
>people start having fun
>people who dont like fun refuse to play the fun way and complain that people are having too much fun
>devs make the fun thing unfun
>repeat until everyone stops playing your game

>>383499349
They've never nerfed his primary fire, if anything it was slightly buffed.

Are you just lying and pretending you were gud when you fan-hammered everywhere back when it did obscene amounts of damage?

>>383496791
He just got a buff to his ult though. Unless you thought that his Tank killing Fan the Hammer was balanced

>>383499292
assuming the other team is also diving, yeah

>>383499469
>They've never nerfed his primary fire
they increased the falloff significantly at long range and for a character like mccree who is squishy as fuck that is a big change.

>>383496791
But they have never nerved Junkrat anon.

>le mccree is nerfed meme
His counter has been buffed (Winston), and the other hitscan character was buffed to the point where he outshines mccree in every single way. Blame Winston having a massive dome shaped barrier up every other second and Soldier literally shitting damage with minimal effort. Fix those two and he'll be meta again.

>>383496791
Because if they reward skill the casual faggots will cry instead of getting good.
>widow nerf
>mccree nerf
>genji nerf
>roadhog's lobotomy
thankfully the only other character that isn't braindead hasn't been nerfed because it would homophobic or some shit. Pharah will probably get nerfs even though she's easy as shit to kill in the air. If you can't at least weaken her with cod kid 76 you need to stop playing shooters.
she's only a problem with mercy up her ass.

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>Character is obviously OP
>oh Ima pick that and get so many kills mom's gonna freak!! XD
>Inevitably gets nerfed
>REEEEEEEE

I don't even play Overshit but I just don't understand this. I mean you knew damn well you picked that character to gain an unfair advantage. How delusional can one be?

>>383499720
No, they increased it way too much ONE patch making him a better sniper than widowmaker, then reducing it after less than a week. Ultimately he ended up with more range than he had before that patch.

Did you start playing ow just as that retarded patch rolled out, or do you just enjoy being wrong?

>>383499502
He got his damage falloff nerfed
There's no reason to pick him over soldier now

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>>383499772
Winston was never that much of an issue for McCree it's shit like this that makes him fucking unplayable.
>supposed to counter flankers
>flashbang doesn't reset momentum
>genji pressed e ur dead gg xd

>>383499629
>2017
>Any team not diving
Good joke m8

>>383499914
All of those nerfs increased the skill cap if anything.

Widowmaker's nerf made it more important to land headshots, whereas previously any shitter could easily kill just landing bodyshots.

Even bad genjis could do work before when his ult lasted for an eternity. Most of them would never get a single kill outside of dragonblade. Now you gotta learn his shurikens to get anything done.

McCree can't spam right click anymore to kill anything he looks at, now it's used as a guaranteed kill after flashbang on squishies. Suddenly you needed to learn his left clicks.

So how did any of these changes do anything but promote skill?

>>383499914
>roadhog
>skill
The nerf was too harsh though. He's completely useless now.

>>383500301

>Pick "HE " or the autistic black woman and proceed to murder your 20 decades of training with Genji/widowmaker with an auto-aim weapon that never lets you go away.

kek.

>>383500002
>No, they increased it way too much ONE patch making him a better sniper than widowmaker
Oh McCree can do 240 damage in a single headshot, has wallhacks, and doesn't have to fucking walk everywhere? This is news to me.

>Ultimately he ended up with more range than he had before that patch.
Before the patch McCree relied on FTH for his kills.

>>383500124
He wasn't that much of an issue since he had to be very careful not wasting his barrier, but now that he can plop it down whenever he can safely challenge mccree. Mccree will win if he can land a headshot or two while he dives though.

But still, Winston counters every single squishie, and Reaper is still too garbage generally to deal with him

>>383500301
But there's no reason to pick Mccree when Soldier is better in every way
They increased his damage falloff and now it just takes more headshots to kill people from far away. How does that promote skill?

>>383500674
I agree with you on reaper, he could use some buffs.

>>383496791
Deserved his nerf at launch desu

>Full health Winston approaches
>stun him
>right click
>dead Winston

Those were the days..

>>383499176
Zenyatta is kind of a requirement for dive comp as well. Discord orb + winston leap and enemy healers are dead

>>383500674
>and Reaper is still too garbage generally to deal with him
No he isn't. It's just that most Reaper pickers go aggressive instead of protecting his backliners, which makes him a useless pick.

>>383500647
What does Symmetra have to do with anything?

>>383500658
Better sniper as in he could do significant damage from sniper distances while also shutting down everything that came close to him.

And no, he never needed fth to kill, only if you were too bad to land headshots. I don't know why you're crying about damage fall off if you're clearly unable to land his left clicks in the first place.

>>383500730
everything about him is good expect shadowstep, just replace it with a gengu dash and he'll be fine

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>>383500674
>reaper cant deal with winston

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>>383500674
>Reaper is still too garbage generally to deal with him
do you play the same game as me?

>>383500694
Soldier being better than mccree isn't because of mccrees fth nerf, it's because of the buff soldier received a while ago making him into a long range reaper for anyone that could aim.

McCrees current damage fall off is better than what it was at release, his only real weakness at the moment is just how much stronger soldier is. Not that I'd like a slight buff to his fall off to make dealing with pharmercy easier.

>>383500674
>reaper can't deal with winston
What kind of buttcheeks reapers have you been playing with?

>>383501082
He can win over Winston 1v1. 1v1 situations basically never happens outside of gold rank and lower.

>>383501370
>why i cant run into enemy team and kill winston!!!!

>>383501173
>>383501328
See >>383501370
Do you really play matches constantly where you're allowed to run around as slow-ass Reaper with his clunky boots without getting shot at by soldier and Ana as soon as you show yourself?

>>383500674
>Still to garbage to deal with him
>One body shot to Winston recovers 1/4 of his healthbar
>After just two shots he's recovered half health

?????????

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>>383500876
>Better sniper as in he could do significant damage from sniper distances while also shutting down everything that came close to him.
But you had to have really good aim to be that consistent and he was shit in every other area. He has the worst ult in the game, the worst mobility of the offense heroes, can't heal himself, and his flashbang is an unreliable buggy piece of shit that doesn't even work on the characters it's supposed to counter.

>And no, he never needed fth to kill, only if you were too bad to land headshots
Right being able to melt tanks in a fraction of a second by right clicking didn't matter at all and that's not why McCree went from a 100% pick to 20% pick in the span of a few weeks. Completely irrelevant.

>>383501554
see
>>383500864

Just stay where Winstons wants to jump in and fuck him when he does.

>>383501265
Yeah but a release he had much more burst damage
The damage fall off was perfectly fine before it was nerfed

>>383501591
Did I ever say that was irrelevant? McCree was still used a lot in high ranks and competitive, until soldier was buffed. Because those people have good aim.

Again, they never did anything but balance him, the real error was making a character with significantly lower skill requirement more effective than him.

I would post a picture with a tiny brain but I'm not as petty as you.

>>383501861
What do you do when the Winston stops being a dumbass and wait for his team to kill the reaper before diving? Meanwhile the Reaper does literally nothing staying in the back lines as a low range hero

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>>383501265
>McCrees current damage fall off is better than what it was at release, his only real weakness at the moment is just how much stronger soldier is. Not that I'd like a slight buff to his fall off to make dealing with pharmercy easier.


You're right, but at the same time, in the current context, most Pharahs of note are usually fighting at mid-range, just behind where Tracers and Winstons will be putting themselves right next to the enemy. It puts them at a comfortable place to be able to land direct hits reliably and put force hardier units to back off with how much damage a single rocket can do.

If Pharah is fighting against Soldier 76 or a McCree and trying to engage at a range where the latters' hitscan falloff actually matters, that Pharah is 30 miles away from the action and can't be hitting anything that isn't a stationary target. You might as well be playing Junkrat.

>>383501265
>his only real weakness at the moment is just how much stronger soldier is

And how much of a shit character he is right now.

>>383502016
>Reaper does literally nothing
And the Winston does what?

Anyone else having a way easier time dealing with Pharah as Sombra than as McCree and sometimes even Soldier?

She is good at surprising Pharah, and following her to a high ground with the translocator, throwing the Pharah off and getting closer to deal good damage

If they decreased sombras spread a bit then she would become the perfect pharah counter

>>383502016
Have a McCree of Mei on the team too, if Winston is being the biggest problem. Even Rein can smack him around before he gets away.

>>383502267
Frying the enemy teams tanks while also providing barriers for his team.

A Reapers presence puts some pressure on Winston, but Reaper is too easy to kill for the rest of the cast for it to matter much. Nearly every offense hero counters him, but only Reaper counters Winston. So clearly Winston has it easier.

>>383502297
Sombra has way better burst ability at range than McCree does. If you can manage your spread or the Pharah isn't too far away then you can kill her faster as Sombra than S76.

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>>383502476
>Frying the enemy teams tanks

>>383502476
>Frying the enemy teams tanks
It's time to stop posting

>>383502476
>Frying the enemy teams tanks while also providing barriers for his team.
So you don't play winston, I see.

>>383502674
Frying, as in putting pressure on them until somebody has dealt with the reaper so he can jump onto the supports. What part of this is so hard to understand? Dealing with a Reaper even in the back lines is easy for any offense hero like Tracer or Soldier, but killing a Winston sticking with his team is not. So the Winston gets his team to render the reaper utterly useless so he can proceed to play his part.

>>383502476
Winston gets btfo by any decent tank

>>383502946
Winston's damage on tanks is easily healed through. His job is to pick on much weaker, highly mobile targets since he is the only hero with guaranteed damage. If he's not dealt with quickly, the supports will be guaranteed dead.

>>383501905
>McCree was still used a lot in high ranks and competitive
He dropped 80% prior to his falloff buff, went back up for a short time when his falloff was reduced, and then when Ana came later and everyone realized how broken she was doing the same damage as him on top of her god tier kit he dropped again and then 76 got buffed and finally put him in shit tier at <5% pick rate.

>I would post a picture with a tiny brain but I'm not as petty as you.
>I don't know why you're crying about damage fall off if you're clearly unable to land his left clicks in the first place.
Eat shit faggot

>>383503005
None of the tanks other than Roadhog can kill Winston with two supports behind him. Of course this is true for him too, in which case see >>383502946

Winston's effectiveness is slightly lessened by Reaper, but Reapers effectiveness is lessened by EVERYONE else in the game.

Soldier is way better as backline defense than Reaper, as anyone that can track well will do similar damage as Reaper without needing to get close to them

>>383503419
>None of the tanks other than Roadhog can kill Winston with two supports behind him. Of course this is true for him too, in which case see

Confirmed shitposting.

>>383503184
You're the one crying about a non-existant fall off nerf while letting it slip that the FTH nerf made him fun for you somehow because you don't have consistent enough aim to use his left click to it's full potential

If you use fan the hammer on a 200hp hero or a stunned enemy please do not touch mccree ever in your lifetime again

>>383503548
So you still think Reaper is actually good and will make Winston ineffective? Gotta wonder why dive comp is so unbeatable then, considering Winston is the core of it and apparently Reaper just makes him useless.

It's easier to just call me a shit poster than trying to refute my points. I swear, none of you guys know how this game and the team dynamics work.

>>383496791
Because it's only fun for the person playing that character.

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>>383503653
>oh shit I don't have an argument better get out my strawman

>>383504000
Prepare you butt for Doomfist, the king of "Only I have fun".

The only buff McCree could get that wouldn't absolutely make him broken would be a small range buff. It doesn't have to be exactly on par with 76's 30m range, but 22m is dogshit when McCrees only real defense is his offense and he can't even pose a real threat from a distance before he gets gangraped by dive.

Half of McCree's kit is a crutch. Stun+FTH is inefficient vs stun+headshot+punch as long as you're good; at best FTH is used to burst down tanks in literal melee and for shield pressure.

Deadeye is just dogshit, its good for killing already weakened pharmercy in the sky, but most of the time its just a big please fucking kill me sign for dva to just fly into your face with DM while genji rapes you. Nanovisor is already such a strong ult combo that completely dwarfs deadeye unless you have graviton+EMP which is just overkill really.

When niggerfist goes live hitscans who sit on highground alone are fucked.

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>>383496791
Mccree is very viable post-Deadeye buff. Still a high skill character seeing how he is all aim now save for wiping <250HP squishies instantly with Flash+Hammer.

The only thing I think he needs is a change to his Combat roll to have its cooldown dependent on the number of bullets so you can use it as a tactical dodge or for reload purposes.
>6 bullets = 5 second cooldown
>5 bullets = 5.5 second cooldown
>4 bullets = 6 second cooldown
>3 bullets = 6.5 second cooldown
>2 bullets = 7 second cooldown
>1 bullet = 7.5 second cooldown
>0 bullets = 8 second cooldown

Also His flashbang's hitbox only applies stun outward if it hits an object, so small ridges, edges, and even individual steps on a staircase can make your flashbang fail even though the enemy is well within what you would perceive as "range"

I think this could be salvaged by having the hixbox be an AOE effect like Pharah's missiles that can still hit around small object corners.

Do that, and there Mccree is fixed forever.

>>383500124
genji's e has a hitbox waaay too large. sometimes he even deflects bullets not even aimed at him

>>383500647
What autistic black woman? There are no black women in OW

>>383500674
>Reaper is a bad hero

Stop this meme

>>383497220
>>383499176 described it well, but I want to add something. What makes this comp aids is that:
A) Hog was the best counter to it. He could get D.Va (the best hero in the game) out of mech, stop and of the dive comp from fucking you in one second. Now they're adding Doomfist (he'll jump on you, kill you, then one shot your friend a couple second later then ult your team one shotting them after) making this dive shit more shit.

B) It takes most of the skill out of many heroes. You get a dive comp, get into comms, pick an enemy hero and all of your team presses Shift and LMB at the same time. That person is dead right up to Diamond.

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>>383506872

>Fun characters
>List only one
Gee I wonder why? I thought ana, zen, monkey and zarya were fun to play against!

>>383502946
A tank literally does not give a shit about a Winston attacking him. If I'm zarya in a teamfight, and a winston starts directly attacking, I just ignore him unless he's the only target, in which case I melt him. Same goes for literally every other tank. He's not even remotely a threat. If you're attacking tanks in the frontline as winston, you literally are not winning a game past gold.

>>383508346
I've said it once and I'll say it again, I think they should of let reaper keep his orbs on top of the life steal.

Now sure he works as a tank buster but the orbs let him stay better against dive comps.

casuals love to play fast, fun heroes like tracer and genji, even if they're shit at them

anyone who is strong against or counters them will never be allowed to be strong, see McCree, most Defense heroes, and now Roadhog, because they will whine at the forums about any hero that makes you actually use your brain before charging into an area

>>383508589
Sure, if you remove that small graviton effect that pulls orbs to him

>>383508757
I'd be fine with that or dropping them to 50 hp instead.

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>>383499914
Tracers going to get nerfed into the fucking ground. You know its going to happen.

>>383498589
They did ok with HotS, even though burst assassins are still pretty stupid.

>>383509686
>d.va

>>383499914
Even though Roadhog is shit after his nerf, I'd say he's way more fun to play.

>>383509589
Tracer has literally been untouched since launch, doubt it.

>>383509589
Characters like Tracer and Pharah are pretty democratized though. They don't have any abilities to hide behind like deflect, and they don't really have anything like a guaranteed kill combo. All they can rely on is their movement ability and their player's raw ability to aim, and personally they're probably the most fun characters to fight against simply because of how fast their skirmishes are with their high damage output but average health. It's a good niche that I don't think needs any severe tweaking. The fragile scout and the mobile rocket soldier are solid FPS archetypes.