What makes Kreia such a great character?

She is shit. Now Visas on the other hand is a miracle of the universe.

>>383472172
What's with everyone being blind in Kotor? She's blind, Visas is blind..

File: kotor2.png (64KB, 1222x750px) Image search: [Google]

64KB, 1222x750px

>>383472172
This sums it up pretty well.

>>383472686
Those first few sentences perfectly explain why Kreia is shit. Star Wars doesn't black and white morality because it represents some idealistic period in history where people didn't understand moral grey. Star Wars is black and white on purpose. Deconstructing that to show how it's not realistic misses the entire mythological hero's journey type shit Star Wars was trying to emulate. It's like going to a midget and saying, "You're supposed to be tall, aren't I smart for realizing that?

>>383473078
Terrible post

>>383472172
the game presents you two paths, and she shits on you for taking either of them.

>if you don't betray me you're a stupid piece of shit
>don't have friends

Her VA was absolutely amazing. I think she's actually a classic theater actress and Kotor2 was her only video game job.

>>383472196
Metaphor for the jedi being blind to their faults and blind to despair of normies in the galaxy.

And how rage and lust for power blinds the sith.
>>383473078
Star Wars as a universe and its lore is different than the hero's journey of Luke Skywalker. You could argue Star Wars is also the redemption of Anakin.

For a mainstream example, it is how the Dunk and Egg tales in the Song of Ice and Fire universe have nothing to do with "Game of Thrones"

Lore=/=story. For an example of this in relation to vidya, games like Elder Scrolls, Dark Souls, and Dishonored have simplistic stories but substantial lore that often affects the plot, but not always.
>>383473489
Maybe poking fun at the Bioware trend of party approval?

shes neither a jedi or a sith and thinks both are equally shit. shes a strong independent old lady who wants the exile to stand on his/her own two feet and not be tied down by morality.

>>383473742
Technically she did have at least one other minor role in an rts as far as I recall, though it might have been only narrating the introat most.

>>383472172
the mad pussy game

>>383472686
>Jedi are self-righteous and profoundly arrogant
>deconstruction of the original's black-and-white morality
Sounds exactly like the prequel trilogy. SO deep.
Does this mean the prequels are masterpieces? Woah!

>>383473078
brainlet

>>383472172
Most of her "lessons" were stupid and she only appears intelligent because everyone opposing her in Kotor 2 is a drooling moron. She's actually right in one thing, that conflict makes someone stronger, but there's really no one in the game to oppose her more questionable beliefs. Atris, Sion, Nihilus and the masters are all scarecrows and the player is forced into bad dialogue choices that make them just as stupid (e.g. the beggar).

File: 1497280513118.jpg (99KB, 567x483px) Image search: [Google]

99KB, 567x483px

>>383473990
>it's like poetry, it rhymes
In all seriousness KOTOR 2 does a lot better with telling the story and pointing out faults of the black and white morality system than old Lucasfilm editors could muster together.

>>383473489
She's using the Socratic method to demonstrate a point. She merely wants you to understand that all actions have far reaching 'echoes', and so you should not give charity or commit cruelty without thought for the consequences of your actions. It's meant to mock the simplistic moral choices present in most RPGs, and to challenge the Jedi and Sith philosophies respectively.

>>383473990
that was just because Lucas was a hack, the jedi were clearly meant to be sympathetic but he just fucked it up

>>383474161
But the player can directly challenge her beliefs every time she speaks.

>>383474161
what's wrong with the beggar event? You literally cannot criticise anything she says beyond "lol this is dumb"

>>383472172
She's entirely correct that both the jedi and sith are retarded. Maybe she's retarded too, but it's about time someone acknowledged the former.

>>383474369
You can, but sometimes the situation is contrived in a way that makes you look like a retard. Like the heavy-handed beggar scene where you're literally shown how wrong you are within 10 seconds of giving him the money instead of being left ambiguous. There are also some beliefs that you can't say much about, like her "relying on power that isn't yours makes you weak" spiel that she repeats over and over again.

The dark side dialogue choices are especially horrible and railroad you all the time - if you kill any of the masters you are forced to say you did it for revenge, if you threaten to kill the beggar you're forced to say you did it because you wanted to be a cruel edgelord. Kreia single-handedly makes the dark side path not worth playing.

>>383472686
This sums it up a bit better:
https://youtu.be/-Z0S0Z8lUTg

>>383474835
> the heavy-handed beggar scene where you're literally shown how wrong you are within 10 seconds of giving him the money instead of being left ambiguous
Why would they do that? The beggar scene is there to give you the basic gist of the morality of the game early on. It's just like how a movie's early scenes will establish how the movie is generally going to progress from there. It makes the narrative easier to follow.
How the fuck could you make it ambiguous anyway? You give money to a beggar or you don't, I don't think anyone would have stopped to think about his fate in the game without the dialog happening.

File: 1485070996720.png (60KB, 300x279px) Image search: [Google]

60KB, 300x279px

>>383475128
>two hours

>>383472172
PRETZELS

>>383475128
Basically, she realized that the force manipulates force users to commit certain actions in the name of balance. Millions of lives being the cost of that. Force users aren't users - they are the tools. Her goal is to free the galaxy from the influence of the force.

>>383475478
no that's wrong actually
she hated the force but knew that she couldn't destroy it. She just pretended she could to make herself the villain.

>>383475478
>Her goal is to free the galaxy from the influence of the force.
That was never her goal.

>>383472172
>i will make you a TOP SIT
>Oh wait, i'm top sit, i just want to revenge
>Oh, okay, you talked this fucker into suicide, so now i kill you
>Oh, okay, you talked me into not killing you, bye.
No, she isn't great character.

>>383475627
brainlet

>>383472172
>unconventional character in many ways
>great voice actress with a background in theatre
>very elaborate philosophy that deconstructs the core concepts of Star Wars
>specific and complex motivations that don't always line up with the protagonist's
>detailed backstory that connects to and fleshes out previously established characters
>constantly reacts to situations within the game, making her dynamic
>forces the player to think about their choices through the lens of cause and effect, not binary morality
>extensive dialogue options

For me personally I just loved hearing her talk. Her conversations on the Ebon Hawk were the highlight of the game for me.

>>383475560
I guess I see what they're saying. Most grief and strife in the galaxy escalated to a ridiculous degree through a few (sometimes just one) Force sensitive individuals. Things were bad enough without the influence of dogmatic individuals that could snuff out entire planets and constantly throw the galaxy into extreme war.

It got to the point most normal citizens held disdain for even jedi, seeing them and the sith as two wings of the same bird.

I hate this interpretation people have of the begger dialogue choice that you were wrong either way since it completely misunderstands what Kreia is trying to teach you. She wasn't criticizing the exile's actions no matter what they choose, she was simply urging them and the player to be mindful that every action, good or evil, that they make has far reaching consequences that they might not be able to forsee. A huge part of her philosophy stems on understanding these ripples. She therefore teaches the exile not to base their actions on whether they're good or evil in the moment but stresses the importance of taking a long term view of the effects their actions instead.

>>383476814
> but stresses the importance of taking a long term view of the effects their actions instead
That's somehow important, but boring as fuck. If in some choices you WOULD like to make a masterplan, usually it's much funnier just kill one guy because you want it.

File: t3_69fu6r.png (256KB, 767x1327px) Image search: [Google]

256KB, 767x1327px

>>383476814
They're likely young. I played the game first when I was 16 or 17 and didn't fully understand what points the game was trying to make many times. On a replay mich later things made more sense and referenced things I read or saw in other media.

Heck, it'll even poke fun at some common RPG aspects sometimes in a meta manner as >>383474245 said.
>>383475406
>THESE PRETZELS ARE MAKING ME THIRSTY

>>383477185
>boring as fuck
What do you mean? The person seems unimportant?

She is also criticizing that line of thought. Even the lowliest can change everything even through pure chance if the opportunity arises.

Fuck the entirety of Lord of the Rings revolved around this concept.

>>383477550
> She is also criticizing that line of thought. Even the lowliest can change everything even through pure chance if the opportunity arises.
Well, that's entire idea. It's working, but it's boring. Let me make some analogy with warframe. You can efficiently farm what you were going to farm, and get it pretty fast, but it usually involves using onebuttoned boring builds, which would requre you just press this button and nothing more. And you could play this warframe as it's intended - just run'n'gun shit, play stealth, cosplay some melee berserker with huge axe - it's fun, but inefficient and slows down whatever is called progress there.
Same here - you could plan all along, killing only if it would gives you something in return - or you could went full paladine/full chaotic retard. Or just kill or not kill by dropping a coin somewhere at your head. Or just kill only persons with some attitude, no matter, if they're inportant or not. I mean exactly this.

>>383477797
Why are you discussing combat? If you don't find narrative fun or really pay attention to it, I doubt you'll find satisfaction in the RPG genre.

>>383472172
Misunderstanding.

>>383472172
depth

Why is Hanharr so good? He's like an eight foot tall blender made of bone, boiled leather and pubic hair

>>383478020
>Why are you discussing combat?
Why are you telling me i'm discussing combat? I'm discussing types of behavior. You can do something efficient because it's efficient. Or you can do something inefficient but fun. First one will bring you to your long-term goal, but you have to sacrifice fun. Second one is just fun in it's pure form. Accidentially your goal might be also achieved.

>>383472398

HAHAHAHAHA look at this retard with eyes! Point at him and laugh!

File: 0.jpg (45KB, 397x600px) Image search: [Google]

45KB, 397x600px

>>383472172
>told you to sacrifice Visas in confrontation with her old master
>immediately notified Atris about handmaiden's broken oath so they will kill her on sight
>revived wookie so he will finally kill Mira
>pushed Atris to the dark side by removing any reluctance from her
>I l-love you, Exile
What did she mean by this?

She had the Sheev mentality in an age where Sith Lords were mere brutes

It always annoyed me how she was just flat out more powerful than everybody.

>>383472686
You forgetting the part where Kreia herself actually wants to destroy the force. That's her fundamental desire. Everything else is just smoke and mirrors on her part. Smoke and mirrors with some meaning, sure, but the meaning is ancillary.

>>383477346
Fuck, the mandalore one got me.

>>383474835
Look at it like this.
What other reason do you have for killing the Jedi?
Or killing a fucking beggar for no reason.

>>383475560
What was her plan then? All that ending sequence starting from dantooine council to final titles is rushed as fuck.

>>383478624
yes that's her initial goal to destroy the force.It's the reason why she is so contrarian no matter if your choice is dark or light side. she think both are trully pathetic
LIGHT SIDE: i'm white knight and want to save everyone that is in need for no reason at all
DARK SIDE:i want to kill/torment everyone just for laughs because i'm an edgy fuck

>>383476814
people don't like getting told they're wrong I guess

>>383478542
she just knew how to do a fancy gimmick with the force

>>383476814
The game is completely at odds with what it's preaching and this scene is the perfect example of why. What was the Exile supposed to do? Walk past him? You can't do that. Hire him or help him get a job? You can't do that. You're forced into giving him money unless you want to threaten him with death, and then you're lectured about it. Why should I care about this "lesson" when the dialogue choices don't support it in any conversation in the game and when it ends up being a binary light side vs dark side story anyway?

This scene belongs in a book like Atlas Shrugged, not a video game about Star Wars.

>>383479218
It's LITERALLY just there to set the tone of the game and make it easier to pick up on what its overall philosophy is. It's not meant to be something studied in detail

Anyone that conflates Rand and KOTOR 2 doesn't know what they're talking about either

>>383479152
She straight up overpowers the 4 remaining jedi masters tho.

>>383479332
that's the fancy gimmick I was talking about, they could do the same thing and did do it to the exile.
all she did was cut them off from the force. Because they refused to accept its absence they died

>>383479019
While in reality of star wars:
LIGHT - i want to stop all conflicts because muh balance.
DARK - i want to do what i want even if that mean some else has to pay for it.

>>383479441
where is this established
hope you're not going to mention some fucking novel or some shit

>>383473742
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KlcaAVUF1uU
Kino

>>383479009
She just wants to understand what happened to the exile at first and how because she sees the exile's blindness to it as a means to destroy it.
Once the council tells the exile how the connection was separated kreia knows what she wanted to.

>>383479516
i always choose apathy just to see that scene it's just too good

>>383473793
>Star Wars as a universe and its lore is different than the hero's journey of Luke Skywalker.
This is wishful thinking on your part. Most of the EU shit adheres to this dichotomy so as to appeal to children - and this is the case now more than ever. You're simply trying to make more of the universe in an effort to justify your time commitment as an adult. KOTOR II was the only SW property to ever seriously flirt with the philosophy and implications behind the force, and even then it's seen as a half finished game that most star wars fans, let alone most normies, haven't played through to completion. This is a children's/teen's franchise at heart and you need to learn to accept that.

>>383479407
That's just your fanfic though.

>>383479771
she straight up says that you dumb fuck

>>383479504
I'm not even going to give you direct source, lol. You could just see how jedi and sith do their deeds and how they motivate it. Even in the very cinema we could see jedi had tried to first maintain, then restore somehow not-so-many-wars-per-second situation, where no one of the sides actually rule. Siths were doing what they want. Sidius wanted to unite everything under his control. Vader wanted to get power. If you would look at others, you'll see the same. Jedi want to put a bowl with food on a standing stick and look at how precious balance is. Sith usually have to put bowl on table and use the stick to eat what's in that bowl. (Just in case you didn't understand analogy - stick if force, bowl with food is world.)

>>383479516
Neutralfags btfo

>>383479009
>From the moment you awoke, I have used you. I have used you so that you might become strong, stronger than I. I used you to keep the Lords of the Sith from condemning the galaxy to death with their power unchecked. I used you to lure them to Telos, where they could be, at last, fought and killed. I used you to reveal Atris' corruption, so that her teachings could be ended before they began. I used you to gather the Jedi so they could be destroyed. And I used you to make those who wounded me reveal themselves, so they could be killed by the Republic.
In short she wanted the Jedi and the Sith destroyed so that something better could rise from the ashes, she saw potential in the Exile and used him to do this. His companions form a new Jedi order based on the Exile's (and by extension Kreia's) teachings. A lot of her motivation is also based on wanting to see her beliefs validated by others and raising a student that wasn't considered a failure by the galaxy, which is why she's so grateful to the Exile at the end of the game

>>383475478
She could and was trying to. She wanted to protect the exile because the exile has the ability to turn the force off completely. So the exile would have been immune to the force bomb.

>>383479771
It's fucking not though.
She cuts them from the force and they can't live without it as the exile did cause they're pompous jedi.

>>383479757
goddamn it i would love to say that you are wrong but i can't

File: 1464927410484.jpg (13KB, 418x299px) Image search: [Google]

13KB, 418x299px

>read this thread
>go to reinstall it
>notice it was steamworkshop support
That's neat. Are there any mods other than the restored content one worth using?

>>383480176
M4-78
i've heard that it's prette good but i don't really know because never tried it

>>383472172
KotOR1 fags hate her.
that's reason enough.
KotOR1 is shit. Live with it.

>>383480176
>mods for lighting, skyboxes or textures like Darker Peragus
>the Mira or Hanharr decision mod
>alien Exile mods, can also use the savegame editor for that
>influence mods, also something the savegame editor can change
There's also the robot planet full of terribly voice splicing but we don't talk about that

>>383480624
Careful with save editor, I changed influence with Mandalore and game started to crushing every time when I tried to leave the ship.

>>383472172
She saw that the force had a will of its own and that will has caused countless death throughout the galaxy, so she was going to use a force bomb to "kill" the force (basically kill everyone who is connected to the force). She saw the exile as precious because the exile was a Jedi that was able to completely disconnect from the force, thus not being controlled by the force's will. After learning the existence of the Exile she begins her plan of trying to teach the Exile that the Jedi and Sith philosophy are both incorrect. In the end, she was going to use the force bomb to kill everyone knowing that the exile would survive (due to having the ability to turn the force off and use it as a tool rather than being used by it.)

>>383481110
you can warp yourself out of glitches like that

>>383481132
no that was just her pretense to get you to fight her at the end

>>383481249
https://youtu.be/-Z0S0Z8lUTg?t=6498

I disagree

>>383481505
shan't be watching a two hour video

>>383481249
Why would she fight Exile?

>>383481582
already been explained in the thread

>>383481570
I did you the favor of having it jump to the section relevant to our conversation.

>1:48:18

>>383479815
>>383479918
Yeah but it's idiotic to assume that you can just cut 3 jedi masters off from the force without being more powerful than they are.

File: 1495572112417.jpg (70KB, 667x467px) Image search: [Google]

70KB, 667x467px

why was Kreia's dialogue about Handmaiden and Visas so lewd?

>>383481721
Well i believe she is somewhat more powerful yes.
She trained many rather powerful students aswell, like revan, sion who doesn't die and nhilus that eats the force so hard he can kill planets.
Any of her apprentices could have beaten those jedi masters because the Jedi "masters" were weak fools.

>>383472172
DUDE SPEAK IN RIDDLES LMAO SO DEEP

>>383481921
Because you played as a man and you wanted to nail them.
She read you like a fucking book.

>>383481132
This makes no sense considering that her force bomb, if it's even a thing, would have involved killing herself and the Exile through their force bond, yet you kill Kreia at the end of the game and nothing happens.

It was all a ruse

>>383481993
I don't recall her speaking riddles. Every conversation was a test about a different subject that she wanted to drill into you.

File: stop romancing RPG characters.jpg (25KB, 388x400px) Image search: [Google]

25KB, 388x400px

>>383482005
he read you like a book

>>383481993
Why was Kreia received so well but Ulysses is universally hated?

>>383482046
One of her lessons was to teach you not to dive so deeply into the force bond that you would die from it. She taught you that as she stabbed herself, did you forget?

>>383482110
because one of them is a likeable character and the other isn't

and Ulysses doesn't really have a meaningful point to make, he's basically just nuking the NCR out of pettiness

>>383482161
You can ask all the Jedi Masters about this bond and they have nothing to say basically.
Are you trying to say Exile can cut off this bond if needed just like he did with the force?

>>383482110
BULL N BEAR BULL N BEAR LOLOLOL

>>383482425
The bond is made of the force. Exile can turn it all off if need be.

>>383482110
He was insane.

>>383481921
>>383482005
>>383482095
>Whatever you do, don't fuck this cute sith!
>Instead, fuck my tsundere daughter

>>383482161
Why would she teach the Exile something that would hinder her plans if the force bomb was her goal and it requires his death? Hell, why wouldn't she just kill herself the second she stepped at Malachor instead of waiting for him to stop her?

>>383481663
Are you referring to 2-hour video?

>>383482582
>tfw Sion has an Oedipus complex and is seemingly attracted to a female exile in a twisted way

is everyone in this game besides the droids sexually frustrated?

>>383482741
the video is not the thread, so no

>>383482750
>>383478440

>>383482713
The force bomb didn't require the death of the Exile. The Exile would be one of the very few in the galaxy that would survive the bomb and continue the teaching. Kreia killing herself after getting on Malachor wouldn't have done anything to the Exile because Kreia taught the Exile to not rely on the force bond right before leaving to Malachor.

>>383482713
Because she loved the Exile. As a Light Side Exile, you are essentially walking proof to her that she was right. "You are not a Jedi, not truly, and it is for that reason I love you."

Kreia hated the Jedi because they had grown to insular and xenophobic and self-righteous that they were barely different from the Sith. The Exile had grown beyond that, under Kreia's tutelage, and through the Exile, the apprentices build a better Jedi Order than the one that was destroyed.

>>383482713
I missed a question.
>Why did she wait

That I have no concrete answer for because she doesn't explicitly say why she waited.

File: wise mentor.jpg (62KB, 630x684px) Image search: [Google]

62KB, 630x684px

Stop picking up trash on the street.

If I decide to play Kotor is playing the first one required? Whenever I see it get mentioned a lot of people say it's shit.

>>383482916
Okay, so what was the force bomb and why didn't Kreia go through with it? And why did she tell Atris to tell the Exile that the force bomb involved killing herself (and Exile through the force bond) on Malachor?

I'm convinced I'm being trolled but it's not like I have anything better to do

>>383483098
I'd say the first has better gameplay, second is too easy.
But if you play for the story, it's probably better to skip it.

>>383483098
No, but you might as well play both of them and get it over with since they're not that long. Kotor 1 can be fun if you don't take it too seriously

>>383483098
KotOR 1 isn't as good, imo, but it sets the stage for a lot of what happens in KotOR 2.

>>383483195
Would the second explain to me anything I missed in the first if I did that? Also, I remember hearing somewhere that bioware ruined Kreia at some point.

>>383483285
>>383483324
Ah, okay. Thanks anons.

>>383483429
There's no Kreia in kotor1, they probably implied sw mmo.

>>383483429
The second is pretty good about explaining the basic stuff at the beginning of the game--you choose what happened in 1 by talking to your first party member--but a lot of the impact is lost if you don't play 1, since a lot of 2 revolves around who Darth Revan was, what they did, and why.

>>383482750
>mfw that scene where he tortures Atton to (near-)death and then leaves him for you to find

>Is everyone in this game besides the droids sexually frustrated?
Not everyone. _Mira's_ a bit sexually messed up, like everyone else in the game (which is why it's so good), but I wouldn't call her frustrated. She seems to enjoy being Handmaiden's big sister, with boy advice and all.

>>383483195
>too easy
>he never fought Vrook on his first planet

>>383483140
Well for starters I am not trolling you, I am genuine in this wonderful Kotor 2 discussion. The force bomb would have destroyed every living creature that was connected to the force. Kreia hated the force because it has a will and the people using the force are really being used by it. She hated the Jedi because their teaching only breeds Sith because of the Jedi way being completely robotic. She hated Sith because their quest for power consumed their every thought to the point that they will even forget what they needed power for.

>Why didn't Kreia go through with it?

I have no answer because she didn't give one. Probably because it's a videogame and you need a final boss fight. She made it very clear that she was going to fuck the galaxy for you and only you though.

>And why did she tell Atris to tell the Exile that the force bomb involved killing herself (and Exile through the force bond)

The force bomb would have killed Kreia and everyone connected to the force, and right before she leaves to Malachor she stabbed herself to teach you not to have your force bond so open that it leaves you vulnerable. Finally, the Exile is immune to the force bond because the Exile has the ability to turn the force off so hard that it creates a wound in the force. The Exile uses the force, and is not used by it. That's why Kreia loves you my nigga.

>>383483573
>he never fought Vrook on his first planet
I was a lightsider, so I didn't, yes. Can he wreck you in one round like those elite/holy sand warriors on Tatooine if you slightly overleveled after Dantooine training?

>>383483429
>Also, I remember hearing somewhere that bioware ruined Kreia at some point.
Avoid SWTOR and the associated books, literally every character that appears in them is retconned and ruined.

>>383483429
SWTOR made Kreia into just a crazy person and wrote her off. Lucas didn't love Kotor 2 very much because it painted the force as something evil and and added a grey area to both the Jedi and the Sith. Lucas only wanted good vs evil and that's it.

>>383484192
I bet Lucas was just butthurt that it shined a light on how retarded he is.

Is motb really as good as kotor2? I can't stand nwn2 and avoided it either.

>>383484257
Probably. He's already butthurt about what Disney is doing. Heck they may even touch on how the Jedi way is wack in the next movie.

>>383483823
>Can he wreck you in one round like those elite/holy sand warriors on Tatooine if you slightly overleveled after Dantooine training?
He definitely can. It's been a while since I've played Darkside, but I remember as anything but a melee-focused Guardian he'd murder you in one round, two at most, over and over again. It's also entirely possible to run into him without a Prestige Class or (if you've been a bit slack) a lightsaber, which usually leaves you the option of kiting him around the room and hoping he doesn't decide to stab you to death anyway.

It's a shame the game's levelling is handled the way it is, because Kavar was clearly intended to be a difficult but incredibly awesome fight, but by that stage of the game you're so powerful it's irrelevant how strong your enemies are.

>>383484192
Isn't that already a thing with grey Jedi though?

>>383484479
Are the new movies any good? Haven't watched them.

>>383485036
Grey Jedi are just Jedi. They still follow the Light Side. Qui-Gon was a Grey Jedi.

>>383484479
He liked Rogue One, I think he just didn't like how much of a retread TFA was

>>383485036
Lucas set the bar so low that I would have accepted anything, so my point of view is Jaded. In my personal opinion, the first movie plays it very safe and uses the formula of episode IV to set the pace.

File: 14329432842387.jpg (60KB, 800x600px) Image search: [Google]

60KB, 800x600px

>>383484423
MotB is my favorite game and definitely worth playing if you're a storyfag. The base game sucks, but it made playing evil in the expansion all the sweeter after everything the PC goes through.

>>383485216
It might also have something to do with the fact that TFA was fucking garbage

>>383485216
TFA was a safe option to give a platform to jump off of. It was to show that Disney cared enough about Star wars to not go completely bonkers with it. Lucas is correct, TFA didn't push the bar at all.

>>383485194
Really? I thought they were just force users who weren't light or dark.

I don't know a lot about star wars lore tbqh.

>>383485864
They're pragmatists who still do good but aren't autists about being saints

>>383485864
Even Jolee Bindo, the "quintessential" Grey Jedi, proclaims his loyalty to the Jedi and the Light Side of the Force if the PC puts his back to the wall by going Dark Side.

>>383485864
>who weren't light or dark
There is literally no such thing. There is light, and there is dark. There is no in-between.

File: kreia.jpg (13KB, 286x304px) Image search: [Google]

13KB, 286x304px

>>383486358
B-but

>>383486496
There is no Grey Force. Regardless of your personal views, you are using either the Light Side, the Dark Side, or both, and the Dark Side is objectively corruptive and cannot be used without consequence.

>>383484756
I don't get it, I had no troubles at all with wiping the floor with any Jedi as a heavy armoured duel sentinel.