Dark Souls isn't hard

It's easier to be penalized in the game than most others

>>383460097
It has way more to do with memorizing attack patterns than "stat management"

>>383460097
Wrong, all you had to do to get fucked was go down the skeleton path at the beginning.

>>383460347
first 2 hours of this game

>>383460097
>People just suck
FTFY. You're wrong by emission (excessive specificity).

>>383460097
>stats mattering in dark souls
wew lad

>>383460139
*Modern casual games
Fixed that for u

I agree. If the marketing department didn't force the "so hard" thing then I doubt anyone would even call it hard.

It just has a good difficulty curve. Certainly not any harder than any old, gameplay focussed games like Megaman 3, Castlevania 3 or DKC2. Not even harder than a lot of modern games like necrodancer or Furi.

Demons souls was legitimately quite difficult at the start because the tutorial does such a bad job at explaining anything. I even played DeS after DaS 1 and 2 and found the first few hours really difficult. It's all downhill from there though.

>>383460097
You are correct

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>>383460097
It is though, it takes a lot of effort and endurance for new players to get through it. If you somehow blew through it on your first playthrough without any major hiccups, then congratulations, you did something the average person couldn't.

>>383460271
Wrong. Pour all your SL's into Luck and try again.

>>383460347
I'm still fucking lmaoing that some people actually did this, even going so far as the catacombs and getting stuck there, unable to get back out, forcing them to start the whole game over.

>>383460097
>It's another anon trying to act tough over nothing to a bunch of anons he'll never know in person episode.
What's not hard is posting the same fucking thread on /v/ every fucking day.

>>383460475
Bosses just seemed like a joke when I focused all my points on a specific build.

>>383460672
Most people got stuck at Crestfallen. Making to the Catacombs is an achievement honestly.

>>383460514
>then I doubt anyone would even call it hard.
"Gaming journalists" would.

>>383460514
>because the tutorial does such a bad job at explaining anything.
Fucking LOL. Fucking based.

Stats? Kek, only if you're already good enough to get by.
Really, it's that at the time it came out, devs were insisting upon easy, cinematic games. DS was welcome because it was the opposite. And it was seen as hard because people were playing easy games for so long that they forgot what it was like when a game challenged you and expected you too get good.

Stats are for babies. You're not even a REAL gamer unless you play SL 1 only

>having to rely on "stats"
Gay. You might as well just use savestates and other cheat codes.

The game's stat system is it's hidden easy mode. Obviously it was designed to cater to the casual audience. Real men, real gamers "turn it off": they choose not to use it, not to have their hand held.

Try doing a real playthrough, with a real Knight, or Cleric, or Thief or whatever class you like. For instance, when you're a real as fuck Wizard, you've got to take your god damned broken twig with both hands and suit up in your raggedy clothen "armor" sewn by the Devil in Hell, and then you've got to fucking well R2 and roll around like a God for 25 minutes straight just to kill one lousy rat, without getting hit once, because even rats OHKO real Wizards 100% of the time, because they don't play on easy mode, because they don't have any extra stats so they can't cast any spells worth casting.

>>383460985
This.

Fucking every game tried to be interactive movies then FROMsoft dropped this shit on us and it was like a miracle.

>>383460097
>Pro Fighting isn't hard
>People just suck at reacting to incoming movement and counter attacking

>Neuro psychiatry isn't hard
>People just suck at understanding the brain

>Climbing Mt. Everest isn't hard
>People just suck at temperature control

You're autistic.

>>383461737
most reddit post I've seen here in a while

>>383460097
>stat management

What this means? Putting points into the right stats? But that is simple as fuck...

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I liked the souls game not only cause it tailors to different playstyles, but also because the game keeps you on your toes no matter how powerful you are. Especially with the level design, which would normally be in the category of bad games with bad boundary boxes. Also, I genuinely believe Demon/ Dark Souls is a legit way to do solo mmos these days. I believe GW1 did the same thing, too.

90% of the difficulty of the Souls games is learning when to attack and when to heal. Everything else is cake.

>>383461768
I like to think that with the Nexus, they also faithfully recreated the old level select menu present in many games of the past, roughly speaking. Say, for example, in Megaman's robot master select screens.

As such the Nexus is a 2D abstraction of a means of progression seamlessly integrated into DeS's plot and gameplay in 3D, 3rd-person perspective. That's amazing.

>>383461737
Is this pasta?

>>383460097
>stat management.
>dark souls
lmao?

>>383462665
Why, yes, thank you. My very own.

>>383462586
Seriously though what an obscene over simplification of difficulty.

>>383460347
I go straight to the gravelord sword or chaos scythe at the start of the game all the time, people are just shit

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>>383460097
why not start another run, anons?

>>383462793
Well I mean playing any game is really just knowing when to press buttons and when not to. Literally all you have to do. You can't tell me that's hard. Pressing buttons isn't hard for you, is it, anon?

Souls games prioritize equality of opportunity over equality of outcome, and this is their fatal flaw.

>>383460097
Stats only needed to handle equipment. People just don't the research and play the game with barely upgraded weapons.

>>383460347
I restarted the game 6 times because of that. Then read a guide.

>>383463087
Well, and I know this isn't exactly what you were saying, a game is more than just the experience one has of playing it. The same is true of a game's difficulty.

>>383460097
Dark souls has artificial difficulty, nothing else.

They explain nothing about the game mechanics or stats at the beggining, so you don't know what the fuck you're doing. You start underleveled against a bunch of fucks that do too much damage, there's too much muscle memory killers in the first parts as well and the bosses have counterintuitive hitboxes.

However, once you get a hold of it, every game is a breeze, except when they pit you with more artificial difficulty shit such as damage sponge bosses or gimicky shit like bed of chaos, or outright bugged shit like ceaseless discharge.

Dark Souls 1 is a terrible game actually, gameplaywise. 2 fixes most of it despite having a less interesting setting, 3 has great gameplay and setting, but it lacks some of the better features of DaS2 such as stats stuff, and the journey is either too short, or the world too cluttered.

>>383461737
Dark souls does have an easy mode. It's called "summoning".

>>383460347
>first playthrough
>get rekt by skeletons
>fuck this i'll go the other way
>get rekt by ghosts

>>383460097

Capra demon is unfair because of the fucking dogs.
The archers in Anor Londo are unfair because they are an insta-kill with no space to avoid the arrows.
Not saying that people doesn't suck, or that the game is unbearable, but have some masochistic decisions that make sense if you read Miyazaki interviews - long story short, he is into kinky stuff.

>>383463380
Oh I'm not that original guy. I was actually poking fun at him by saying that.

>>383463460
>start underleveled against a bunch of fucks that do too much damage

Sounds like you ran into the cemetery. If you actually follow the correct path, the mobs die in 2-3 hits and only hit you for a little bit of damage. You can actually sustain quite a bit of punishment in the first areas of all four Souls games. Though they all do have little minibosses that are meant to be hard for people not used to the game.

>>383464039
>no space to avoid arrows
100% shield or rolling forward completely avoids those archers. Your very first time running through the area might they might kill you, because they shoot at you before you can even see them, but you don't really have an excuse after that.

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Dark Souls is literal babby tier difficulty, the only reason why it's considered so hard is because enemies magnet lock onto you

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Why haven't FROM attempted to perfect the interconnected world design from Dark Souls? It's the best thing about it but it's also incomplete, instead they just give us a linear Bloodborne reskin.

>>383463240
What the hell happened bro? What went so catastrophically wrong in your life that this happened to be the case? That's a genuine question, by the way; I don't mean to be mean.

I mean I understand you didn't know what the right way to go was, but not how you were unable to conceive that the way you tried might not have been it. Six times.

>>383463464

>>383463240
Hi Phil

The real problem is the hitboxes are pills instead of boxes

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>>383462929
I'm finishing my fist only run with path of the dragon that I rolled a few days ago.

>>383463460
>They explain nothing about the game mechanics or stats at the beginning
You too retarded to look at the menus, bro? The game quite literally has a "tell me what this shit does" button in the stats menu.

>>383465909
>fist-run
Truly the epitome of attention-seeking behavior. Gotta get dat gamer cred, after all.

Dark Souls has become the Binding of Isaac of soulslike games.

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>>383466125
Fist weapon type, Caestus, Claw, Dragon Bone Fist, says so right in the image. Calm down friend, I just want to play vidya.

>>383462929
because I already beat the game twice and can't be bothered to play it again. I have other games to play.

>>383460347
i feel really lucky that i didn't see the doorway to the bonfire, because i probably would have been totally stuck there if it wasn't for thinking i found a dead end

>>383463460
>Dark souls has artificial difficulty, nothing else.
It's patently false that DS has no real difficulty. And what do you even mean by artificial? Judging by your next paragraph, you seem to think it means, "Difficulty that arises due to poorly executed implementation." But that's just a poorly made game; if such a game happens to be difficult in ways resulting from that, then isn't that more like meta difficulty?

>>383463460
>They explain nothing about the game mechanics or stats at the beggining, so you don't know what the fuck you're doing. You start underleveled against a bunch of fucks that do too much damage, there's too much muscle memory killers in the first parts as well and the bosses have counterintuitive hitboxes.
>DS is bad in spite of its deep mechanics because it didn't have a good tutorial, at one point player health and enemy damage values are punishing rather than forgiving (TRUE artificial difficulty, fyi), at another point it affords using a certain technical skill i lack and don't want to practice, and all possible positive things that might be said about the bosses are voided because of a nitpick I have with one characteristic in particular.

My what an excellent analysis. You could do this professionally. You should apply at the mainstream gaming media today.

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>>383460097
Just finished Demon's Souls a couple of days ago for the first time.
Fuck world tendency.
>you died
>let's make every enemy in the zone tougher
>this repeats every time you die

Haven't played BB or DS3. DS1 is the best souls game so far.

>>383464468
Demon's Souls good ending → Bloodbourne
Demon's Souls bad ending → Dark Souls

>>383460097
can confirm I struggeled on my first save with stats all over the board(except for Resistance because thats worthless), but then I made a build around the Zweihänder and cheesed trough the game

>>383462197
>comparing actual hard disciplines with a videogame meant to be casually enjoyed as a challenge.

but yeah, is not about stats, as you can be level 300 and put all in STR and DEX and literally one shot most enemies with the right weapon. Is more about how you adapt yourself to new situations

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is it just me or are strength weapons the fucking worst. i beat it the first time with a dex build no shield (2handing for dmg and rolling) and had a blast, but the only bit of fun i've had with strength so far is the longsword cause it's at least kind of fast. do i just go back to playing this game like bloodborne or try a new playstyle?

the only thing stat management does it inflict more damage, resulting in faster play, which is less monotonous and boring. for it to be "hard" you would have to fail at basic combat. so, no; its easy when you master the combat. if u cant avoid being hit and land hits, then its hard. but stats merely make u kill shit faster and u would have to be good at the game anyway.

>>383469101
STR weapons are meant to have be slow but powerful attacks.
For example the battle axe is meant to be slower than a sword but faster than a greatclub in succesive strikes

>>383468469
>Fuck world tendency.
Fuck you. I liked it. Anyone who repeatedly dies on the same level enough times to shift world tendency to the point where the fact that it toughens enemies as it darkens actually becomes a serious impetus to either progression or enjoyment doesn't deserve and shouldn't be allowed to play.

>>383460097
That's a stupid generalization to make. Stat management is easy. Reading enemy movements is where most people screw up.

>>383469273
yeah i get that, i guess it's just really hard timing that shit when i'm used to being able to cut off an enemy's animation fast with a dex weapon while with a claymore i gotta time that shit perfect or im fucked. that and attacking faster is more fun in general

Dark Souls isn't hard compared to old games where the reward design was based on overcoming challenges
Most new games have evolved to include many different reward factors such as open world exploration whereas older games could only reward you with overcoming difficult parts, such as killing stuff in MediEvil, getting platinum relics in Crash, and so on
Dark Souls inherits this kind of reward factor from traditional games but that doesn't make it any harder than what >we used to play as kids, its just there are a lot more easy games in this age, for example Fallout will reward you for exploring the world instead of making enemies really tough which isn't an inherently bad thing, I welcome this kind of diversity in video games, or Stardew Valley where you feel accomplishment by selling crops, expanding farm, following story, building relationships, etc
If you take other recent games using the challenge-reward design you will find that they are just as difficult as Dark Souls, for example Cloudbuilt, Gianna Sisters, etc

Debate me

Surely, this is the dark souls of threads.

>>383469361
I liked the idea, but I believe it was implemented poorly. I had my own problems with it. I didn't realize being in Soul Form gave you increased attack, so I thought that when I died, I simply had less health. So, I used a stone of ephemeral eyes and kept plummeting this world into Black when I had died. I believe I gave up right before Tower Knight, because I couldn't defeat the Red Eyed Knight, alongside the goons and other knight. They tell you nothing about the World Tendency, even the advice they give you in the alcove behind you in the Nexus is nothing to help.

I came back a week later of course, when a friend told me about that, and completed it. My favourite of the Souls Series.

>>383460097
This
You just have to go full

GIANTS
GIANTS
GIANTS

>>383460097

It's not hard. Its's just a bad game. An RPG that's so poorly-balanced that stats and armor don't matter at all.

>>383464649
Because I heard that the game was hard so I assumed that I wasn't good enough. I scouted the area around the bonfire and couldn't find road to Dead Burg, so I assume the Catacombs is the only way, since the area beneath looked too spooky to me.

>>383460672
>increasing your soul level

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>>383470152
You clearly didn't play it then. You can put so many points into your VIT stat that bosses pounding you will feel like mosquito bites. /v/ memesters like you who don't play games are funny.

>>383470152
>b-b-but the game's skill ceiling is so high you can beat the game with no armour!!!
>in reality armour's just worthless 95% of the time and bosses have low hp, but do retarded amounts of damage to make them seem hard.

I love the series but really feel like it isn't balanced too well, PvE wise, anyways.

>>383470008
>My favourite of the Souls Series.
Well why didn't you say so. All right then I forgive you.

>>383470414

>You can put so many points into your VIT stat that bosses pounding you will feel like mosquito bites

Proof?

>>383470425

Probably the angriest-seeming agreement i've ever had with someone.

>>383470414
so what you're saying is
>investing limited points into hp and missing out on other important stats is better balanced than having armour that actually protects you

Playing dark souls 3 and some guy with a muff for a face is offering me free levels. Is it a trap?

>>383462929
I can't download dark souls 1 on xbone

>>383470524
LOL I just realised how upset I sound. Just regurgitating some of the noise I heard from other souls players.

>>383460097
>stat management
Literally dump everything in health until you hit the soft cap, then endurance. Only get enough stats to two-hand your weapon. Shields and all kinds of magic suggest latent homosexuality.

I'm pretty casual, and if I got through it, then how hard could it be

>>383470661
>and if you're a pro just invest everything into stamina and finish the game before you can even upgrade your hp

>A good RPG
>"shit, that boss just kicked my ass. Maybe i'll go off and level in that new area, and maybe pick up some better armour and weapons while i'm there!"

>Souls' series
>"shit, that boss just kicked my ass. Shame that armour and levels don't do anything, and the weapon I picked up at the start of the game is the best on offer. better just keep throwing myself at it until I memorise all its attacks."

>>383470152
Armor only ever mattered in DS1.

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>>383470527
What I'm saying is that
>that stats and armor don't matter at all
is false or blatant lies.

>>383470743
lel

There are many good RPGs like that but we've all played them before and the formula doesn't change.

>>383470527

Weird. You said:
"You can put so many points into your VIT stat that bosses pounding you will feel like mosquito bites. "

Which would at least imply that armour is useless.

>>383470829

The good RPG formula doesn't change because it works well. The souls formula is crap.

>>383470743
dark souls is literally i wanna be the guy: the rpg but with a 1000x more obnoxious "ITS GOOD BECAUSE ITS HARD BRUH" fanbase

>>383460097


Nah, People are just dumb as fuck about understanding game mechanics that aren't flat out explained at length by the game with a tutorial accompanying that.

Most people TO THIS DAY still can't realize that high poise armor makes the game faceroll levels of easy.


>Havel's/Stone/Black Iron set
>Any weapon
>High End and Vit
>MASH R1 and Estus

Beats almost every single boss in this game not named Bed of Chaos

>>383470923

It is. Or that cat mario shit.

The only good game which is made to be "hardcore" is castle in the darkness.

>>383462460
>Gw1 did the same
In a different way, but yes, they did. They forced you out into the world in either NPC or human parties as soloing shit was next to impossible.

Don't let anyone fool you. Playing with summons is the way the game is made to be played.

>>383470923

When dying has such a weak punishment in Dark Souls, no.

>>383470743
>RPGs should depend entirely on stats so I could just grab a build from the web and play the game without any effort
Pathetic.

DS is a legit bad game.

>Plot is shit even if you scrounge around for it
>'where the fuck do I go and why?' is the game's theme
>Some stats are worthless while others are extremely important
>Armor is nothing but detrimental in most cases
>blocking is worthless
>abusing iframes is the best way to win
>game encourages sprinting past enemies just to fight bosses

I like the ARPG elements and the setting but wish it was made by a better developer.

>>383471110

>Dark Souls doesn't have people doing just that
>>383470924

>>383470839
The anon clearly din't say anything like that, are you drunk?

>>383471173
Dark souls builds don't mean crap. Even boss strategies don't mean crap if you don't develop any skill.

>>383471172

DS is okay, I guess. It feels a bit like a castlevania game, to me. Not as good as CoD, but nice and atmospheric, and the bosses were pretty cool for the most part.

DS2 and 3 are like...settling down for a long, tedious session of chemotherapy, where they try to recapture the spirit of the first, and fail miserably in every attempt.

>>383470907
Is that why no one makes RPGs like that anymore

>>383471172
urghhhhhh, DS has such a soft spot in my heart I don't want to admit you're right, but you are.

Thinking back on it, the only part of DS I enjoyed was rolling(abusing I-Frames pretty much), and the dark themes/unique environments the game created.

Otherwise it's meh

>>383471258

YOU DON'T NEED SKILL FOR DARK SOULS 1 IF YOU BUILD YOUR STATS WELL

HIGH POISE
HIGH VIT
MASH R1
MASH ESTUS

It fucking works even on Manus and Gwyn

>>383471316

A few are released every week, m8

>>383471316

>there's no such thing as nier automata, persona 5 or the witcher 3

>>383471384
I take a few dumps every week but don't call them RPGs. Yet you call RPG Maker shit games.

>>383471364
Armor only works in 1. In 2 there's some poise but even the heaviest armor will block only like 30% of damage. In 3 there's no poise and even hyperarmor can be interrupted.

>>383471448

>things are only games if I say so

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>>383471173
>implying memester fans and memester haters care about the truth

>>383471258
There's not much skill necessary, especially if your character is a STR/END/VIT monster, as most of the bosses become rather forgiving, have optional NPC phantoms. You just put your shield up or roll away, nothing fancy.

>Pickle-pee!
>Pump-a-rum!
DS fags will defend this

>remove all comfort functions to shit on the player as much as possible
>game gets instant classic for an autistic fanbase

DS in a nutshell.

>>383471567

I MAKE NO IMPLICATION, CHILDE

>>383471479

In 2 it's Soul Geyser+Soul Mass or Climax+Affinity most of the time.
I've only played through DaS3 twice since it's so bad compared to the other games so I can't comment on it's cheese builds.

People suck at restraint. All you need to be able to do in Souls games is time your I frames and observe the environment. Way too many people roll 5 times in quick succession instead of a single well-timed one, and then wonder why they were smashed for half their health. Same with attacking; an opportunity for a single hit turns into r1 spam, even once the enemy has recovered and is about to swing again. Literally all you need to be able to play Souls is observation and patience.

>>383471479

Why they continued to shit on defense is beyond me. They took out so much variety by the time BB rolled around it just became a dash/parry fest where everything is functionally a spastic DEX build.

>>383471708

>Literally all you need to be able to play Souls is to be somewhere on the autistic spectrum

>>383471758

Because of the MUH HARD GAME PREPARE TO DIE marketing and fan response.

>>383471801
Not having ADHD doesn't automatically make you autistic, you memer

>>383462929
sure why not

Dark Souls is hard compared to the average difficulty of all AAA games to be released since ever

>n-no you're underage
yes please reference your one SNES game with 'hard' controls as a rebuttal

>>383460097
i can.
people actually suck at learning attack patterns

>>383471870

>ambiguous fantasy-based storyline for you to theory over and get angry about
>memorise boss patterns to win
>include an online element where you communicate non-verbally

Nigger, this shit is more autism-friendly than a thomas the tank engine minecraft mod

The only people who actually thought it was hard fall into four categories:
>Ultracasuals who got into games in 2007 or later
>people who literally never played either an RPG with customizable stats or an action game before (RPG or character action or etc)
>people who are extremely easily influenced by the media
>people who are simply shit at videogames
There are literally no exceptions to this.

>>383463587
>fuck this i'll go the OTHER way, thanks master key
>get rekt by zombie dragon
>aaaaaahhhhhh the other other way
>get shrekt by the club and boulder guys
>manage to persevere only to get lost in some poison swamp and stranded at a sewer's bonfire. have no idea where to go.
>venture out and find a huge tree. have a hunch and discover the walls are fake
>descend and find these silly mushro-fuck i'm dead
>try again and avoid them
>now i'm trapped in this otherworldly lake with a bloodthirsty hydra and killer clams
>woo path of the dragon covenant
>wait, i was just supposed to go up the stairs to some zombies?
>fuck

This is a scenario that couldn't happen in any game in the series except Dark Souls 1.

>>383472008
The online is trash. I like it for the build variety and how you can instantly access about 75% of the game from firelink shrine.

>>383472065
I agree. Souls games are actually pretty calm and relaxing. I'd add to that list people who charge blindly in and can't adapt their playstyle at all.

>>383471963

The "difficulty" in NES/SNES games were the worst implementations ever.

Did it to artificially make a game longer and they were still making games with an Arcade 'gib coins' mindset.

>>383471963
No shit AAA games are easy, that's like saying "Dark Souls is hard if you compare it to imagine party babyz"

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>>383460097
*blocks your build*

>>383472238
Unless your build is dumping points into resistance then the 4kids won't block your build

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>>383472238
>show them my +5 Black Knight greatsword
Try again, lassies.

>>383472238

See >>383470924
Shits on 4kids ez

don't even need high end
just slap on the armor and fat roll.
Doesn't even matter since 4kids barely move

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>mfw reading soulsborne reviews by reviewers who are shit at vidya and they spend the entire review trying to justify their shity progress

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>>383472238
>boss's name implies multiple enemies
>it's actually one enemy making identical copies of itself

>>383470743
>armour doesn't do anything
>Dark Souls
Giantdad was a meme build for a reason you fucking retard. How fucking retarded are you? At least you're not the most retarded anti-Souls poster I've seen, I've seen another guy saying sorcery was worthless in Demon's and DS1

>dude it wasn't that hard, im just an ultra good gamer bro

>>383472238
>Soul level 5 run I wanted to use a sword.
>Get raped repeatedly

>>383472238
Worst fucking boss in the entire trilogy. Even Ceaselees Discharge had more appeal, not to mention lore and visuals, seriously.

>>383472448
>able to read button prompts
>ultra good gamer

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How many players actually use a shield?
Why have a shield take up a slot and force you to stand still when you can just dodge roll through attacks?

>>383472443

>he uses sorcery!

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>>383472458
I wouldn't mind getting raped repeatedly by the 4 Queens.

>>383472530
Rolling takes timing
tower shields in DS1 were broken so you could basically be invincible by just holding L1 with one.
That said even if you use rolls for all mitigation, the grass crest shield is still the best offhand to have
>>383472543
I don't use it in any game except 2 and 3 where there are spells other than "shoot thing, shoot bigger thing", but you're literally brain damaged if you think sorcery was underpowered in the first two Souls games.

>>383472410
4shits was Fromsoft's biggest mistake imo.

>get given the game as a gift
>"the combat is really cool, bruh!"
>it's grimdark fantasy stuff
>awesome, I like that
>make a knight
>sword and shield
>expect some cool combat mechanics and duels and stuff
>my friend wants to help out at the beginning,fight some bosses and shit
>shows up naked
>"haha bruh, stop using a shield blah blah stop using a sword hahaha you'll get it bruh"
>rolling around in a loincloth everywhere
>uninstall, never play again, tell him it crashed and won't load up now

At least I didn't pay money for it

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Rate my first playthrough stats:
I picked deprived with witch ring.
I'm at level 90 right now.

>vitality: 30
>attunement: 16
>endurance: 30
>strength: 24
>dex: 26
>int: 18
>faith: 16

Build is ninja armor and a lighting Uchigatana.
Using the ring that makes your rolls good and the one that improves stamina regen.
Blood shield +5.

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>>383472472
>boss seems really hyped and interesting
>it actually sucks big time

>>383472745
>str 24
>dex 26
>int 18
>faith 16
>lightning weapon
shit

>>383470008
>>383468469
World tendency only shifts towards black if you die in body form. You can die all day in soul form and it has jack shit of an effect on the tendency. I recall the stones being extremely rare in the beginning, unless you use Stockpile Thomas' Nexial Binding welfare services.

>>383472065
You blasted through your first playthrough? Had no problems with the game at all?
Let's face it, it was a "hard" game on the first run, because it's all memorization and the damage output of the enemies are relatively high. Everyone who says he had no problems and steamrolled through the game is a shitter.

>>383460672
Wrong. You can literally beat the game without leveling.

>>383460097
It's ""hard"" if you play "fair" like not using a zwei or not using magic

>>383473076
Invalid. I never said you couldn't.

>>383472443
>I've seen another guy saying sorcery was worthless in Demon's and DS1
My dickass sorcerer invasion build was the only one that could really make the indictments flow in Dark Souls 1.
Soul Spear.
Crystal Soul Spear.
Homing Crystal Soul Mass.
Dark Bead.
Pursuers.
Those, the poiseless robes and magic enhancing gear, no serious weapon or shield aside from the catalyst, and endless taunt spam.
It was a salt miner.

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>>383472238
>>383472410
>>383472546
>>383472871
Wait, Artorias had a ring that let him walk in the Abyss, something that is clearly not needed in Manus's cave (poor Manus, Kaathe is a dick). And Artorias was beat in that cave.

That means that Sif didn't have much reason to try to murder you after it recognizes you. Because the player doesn't even know that there is a ring it supposedly guards (or maybe somebody mentions it in a throwaway line, I dunno). Then there's the fact that the pup should know that you can handle yourself against terrible odds or murder it with ease. Then why does it attack?

>>383472530

Don't act like you never used a shield.

>>383473284

>Sif not remembering you from when you went back in time

>>383473070
I blasted through DaS1 and DaS3 on my first playthrough. I best most of the bosses on my first try examples being, Asylum Demon, Capra Demon, Quelaag, Four Kings, and Nito for DaS1. The only thing I found difficult on my first run was Ornstein and Smough. You just have to be patient to be good at these games. I hate the state of /v/ these days
It's an average difficulty game, just the bar has been lowered so hard that people think this is "hard"

>>383472097
/thread

that which can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence

tl;dr the burden of proof is on the one making the unsubstantiated claims

tl;sdr you prove it

>>383473412
I think they're above average, but not by much. They have difficult scenarios and punishing mechanics, but it's overall just a meme that started when it was promoted with that stupid "prepare to die" tagline.
But it doesn't matter, because it's still a fantastic game.

>>383472871
I'd let 4queens suck my cock big time.

>>383473512
Very true, I really enjoy these games. I really wish they didn't have the "difficult game" stigma, because I think most people would really enjoy them. I think people that grew up playing adventure games or had an interest in Zelda titles would really enjoy these games. I wish DaS1 was considered The Ocarina of Time of this generation instead of le hardest game ever XD u died!!!

>>383460097
Actually, it's the enemies respawning when I use a bonfire or die that turned me off the game. I fucking hate respawning enemies.

>>383473753
Dark Souls 2 is for you then.

>>383472443
I refuse to believe someone has ever said that, or then that person has never played DeS, because magic was the most broken thing in the whole game and Royalty was a fucking crutch of a class.

>>383473786
Yeah, after killing everything 12 times.

>>383473786
Nope. I tried that one too. It's the same damn thing. I just want to clear out areas methodically. Obviously these games are not for me.

>>383473902
It was someone who had only played DS3 and DS2 and was pretending they'd played the entire series.

>>383473070
>You blasted through your first playthrough?
No I took my time with it
>Had no problems with the game at all
No, not more than any other ARPG
>it was a "hard" game on the first run
It was a normal game on the first run. If you thought otherwise you're bad.

There's just too many people that absolutely suck with a controller in their hands

>>383472981
You can die four times before the world is put in Pure Black World Tendency at neutral. Which is what it should be unless you played Online. They aren't incredibly rare, but I had enough to spawn the Black Phantoms.

>>383474101
Fine with me. I had fun with the games and that's all that matters to me.

>>383472097
Dark Souls 1 had the worst combat, levels, balance, movesets, mechanics, etc, but the ability to get lost in places you had zero fucking business being in early on, and the master key were strokes of genius and the game's only redeeming quality in retrospect.

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>>383473284
I'd walk their Abyss if you catch my drift.

>>383473902
>played DeS, because magic was the most broken thing in the whole game and Royalty was a fucking crutch of a class.
>broken
>it doesn't work
>it's devoid of value
>has no reason to exist
>rightfully shouldn't

Oh please, you dullard. Magic probably was OP and caster builds might have been easy to play, but playing a caster was so fun and satisfying. Maybe you should try it once, to see for yourself.

Too often I think the utility of Souls magic gets written off because of its ease, by retards presuming its worth is measurable in skill, or blind followers assuming the retards' are correct, and each of these groups espousing their respective misinformation to others, creating a self-perpetuating cycle of stupidity until eventually everyone believes it if for no other reason than everyone else does.

And Royalty may have been the best or easiest starting class, but to call them a fucking crutch? Go fuck yourself.
>oop, starting classes are broken now, they require a crutch to fix them
>in fact, classes in general are broken
>oh, to hell with it, the whole damn game's broken!

>>383475370
Broken, as in it breaks the game, making it extremely easy. You know what I mean, unless you're a literal retard.
Still, Royalty was a crutch, as was the drake sword in DaS, you're delusional if you think otherwise.
You get an extremely efficient, cheap spell, good catalyst and a ring that regenerates magic. You kill most enemies in the beginning easily without having to dodge, or even pay attention to stamina/mana management because of the way too powerful class.

>>383474225
>wanting to miss all the sweet shit you get with PW tendency

>>383475370
Dude, magic and faith were the sole reasons why PvP was shit.
Second Chance made the whole ordeal awful single handedly

>>383475973
>Broken, as in it breaks the game, making it extremely easy.
Do you actually believe the logic behind this statement? Have you ever even thought about it? Or are you just citing public opinion essentially?

I dare you to give me one original thought about difficulty.

>>383475973
>You know what I mean, unless you're a literal retard.
I believe I do know what you mean, or rather what you think you mean. But I won't know for sure unless you tell me, clearly. But I don't think you can, and what you've told me so far seems self-evidently self-contradictory to what you seemingly mean to say.

>>383475973
>Royalty was a crutch
Just because it was the easiest class doesn't mean it's a crutch. Starting classes simply aren't differentiated enough as to permit a degree of variance between them befitting the term crutch. If you think 1 MP every 6 seconds from a ring obtainable in-game anyway is game breaking, you're delusional. Because that's the only thing Royals have over Sorcerers, and you don't consider that class a crutch.

.>>383475973
>You kill most enemies in the beginning easily without having to dodge, or even pay attention to stamina/mana management because of the way too powerful class.
Okay. Now, explain how this is breaking, bad (wordplay intended).

>>383476601
It was my first time, sempai. Also, while we are talking about WT in Demon's Souls. Fuck you, Rydell. Honestly go fuck yourself.

>>383476702
>>383476702
>Dude, magic and faith were the sole reasons why PvP was shit.
Were they, though? Were they really? Games don't play games, people do. The players chose to abuse this exploit. That's the fundamental problem. Not the fact of the exploit itself. Outside of the effects on played-experience its existence can in theory have, and, it just so happens, often did, it has no obvious impact on the game in the abstract sense, and it's debatable if its visceral shortcomings detract from that, among other unanswered questionable presumptions. But that's complicated; it's much simpler to just blame the stupid game design.

sigh. every time I read a dark souls thread I realize /v/ is the most cancer board on 4chan. the boys in r9k are less autistic then you clowns

>>383477230
I mean it as I originally started as the caveman class when the game came out, but I couldn't get to Phalanx or even to Cling Ring.
I tried variety of other classes as well, from bandit to temple knight, but I still had problems with the game and I didn't really learn from my mistakes.
However, I took a break and picked royalty as a new character and absolutely obliterated not only 1-1, but 1-2 and 2-1 through 2-3.
Only after steamrolling all of those levels, I realized that I had more fun with other classes and then I started getting good. I still had no idea how to distribute my stats, but I did learn.
Fragrant Ring isn't really good, but man was it powerful for a newbie since the mana was constantly full because I was proceeding at speed of a quadriplegic grandma going uphill.

I call it a crutch, because the class was pretty much against the learning of the core tactics for a new player. There's no need to parry or dodge, if you can just durdle and kill everything from afar or by cheesing.

>>383478043
Well, the problem here was that Curse Weapon and Second Chance were so meta-warping that you were effectively gimping yourself for not playing them.
It is always like it, if there's an exploit that affects the PvP in any way, it becomes a part of the PvP meta, if the game catches on.
Besides, there really isn't a way to not abuse Second Chance, it's always just as powerful, unless you fall, which is why Stormruler is useful. Curse weapon has a way to not be abused by having proper stats for Talisman of Beasts and not abusing the goddamn trinket.

>>383478532
>However, I took a break and picked royalty as a new character and absolutely obliterated not only 1-1, but 1-2 and 2-1 through 2-3.
You unwittingly accessed the game's hidden easy mode, there specifically to aid people struggling to get the hang of things just like you. You got stuck on regular classes' difficulty and somehow discovered the intended workaround solution to that problem. The system works!

>Only after steamrolling all of those levels, I realized that I had more fun with other classes and then I started getting good. I
You got burnt out on the repetativeness intrinsic in the playing style of the easymode class that saved your ass from entirely giving up on the game in frustration. But having beaten the first few levels and gotten familiar with the game, you had already "gotten good" - enough, at least, to competently play your original class choices. So you went on to enjoy the game and the series of games. So again, the system worked!

>>383478532
>the class was pretty much against the learning of the core tactics for a new player. There's no need to parry or dodge, if you can just durdle and kill everything from afar or by cheesing.
Oh, the irony...

How is DS3? I loved the first, hated the second and I dropped off after that.

>>383473156
You're a fucking retard.

>>383460514
>Certainly not any harder than any old, gameplay focussed games like Megaman 3, Castlevania 3 or DKC2.
nah, those are all easy as fuck honestly, Dork Souls was harder

>>383479816
>>be 2012
>>tell female school teacher that I play the hardest game ever made
>>"oh dark souls?"
>"yea das rite bitch how u like me naw
>"oh anon i am so impressed, i am heavily seduced by your pro skills, won't you please fuck my ass after school today, and forever?
Is that what you hoped would happen by telling her that?

>>383460097
>having trouble in blight town/swamp
>well guess i should dumb stats in resistance to help with all the poison

yeah no shit the game is real ez after looking up how to minmax online

>>383479395
It's a crutch class, because it allows you to play the game without learning the core mechanics. "Hidden easy mode" is a crutch

>>383460347
>>383460426
They should've really put a dev message there like "death ahead, seek out an alternate route", that would probably help all the idiots dying 20 times in there and quitting the game

>>383473149
It's only hard if you don't use any armor with poise+a slow weapon and don't abuse backstabcs, everything else just makes it easymode

>>383462929
because ive already been downloading darksouls 3 for 4 days and wont slow it down with another download running

>>383460097
Dark Souls is an objectively bad, proveable by fact, bad game.

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>>383472710
>Letting other people tell you how to play
You don't even deserve a fucking opinion.

>>383460097
Disagree. Stat management isn't the problem.
Here is what I found difficult on my first play-thru.
>Jump-scare enemies
>Enemies who are much faster than you
>As stated, not knowing enemy attack patterns]

All of these are really fixed by moving slowly and knowing what is going to happen.

With exception to Four Kings and BoC, fuck those two bosses.

>>383480976

Is that thing a dragon or not?

>>383480357
Afraid not. It's quite the opposite: designed specifically to help learn the basics. If it was reliant on parrying it couldn't have that utility, because parrying, while arguably a core mechanic, is not a basic essential. It's a relatively advanced tactic, and so it's good game design to reserve it for more advanced classes more fit for purpose.

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>>383463587
>>383472097
I never really got THAT lost in DS1, but my first blind play through fuck ups were my most memorable and favorite moments playing that game and I have no idea why.
>finally get to the bell tower
>go up the stairs
>balder with a rapier
>alright here we go
>fight him on the stairs
>die
>ok lets do that again
>die
>process continues for way longer than it should have
>kill him a few times during this process and get his rapier
>but keep dying to the enchanter and the hollows
>now everytime I fight him I feel like im fencing to the death
>back and forth with jabs and blocks
>we go down the stairs and fight outside where the crossbow soldier was
>battle to the death
>use all my estus
>finally learn how to parry because of this fuck
>reposte his ass
>sweet fucking victory again
>sprint past the hollows
>die to the gargoyles
>start over with a new build

I had so much fucking trouble because I started as a mage and didnt know how the fucking magic system worked. So instead of putting SLs into magic I kept spreading them around. In hindsight I really wish I had kept that character instead of deleting it because after my 7th time beating the game, I really wanted to go back through with my old mage with horrible stats just for shits and giggles.

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>>383481672
Drake. So no.

>>383481285
>not knowing enemy attack patterns

As far as I'm concerned this is 90% of the difficulty in every Souls game. When you know this is a 3 hit combo, that has a follow up area of effect, blocking this will eat all your stamina for no particular reason, that can't be parried for no particular reason, etc., etc. then the difficulty dramatically drops.

This is why it bugs me when people claim Souls games are skill based games, they are really mostly knowledge based games with overleveling being the crutch for people who couldn't be bothered paying attention.

>>383460097
I can see why people would think it's hard coming from like, Uncharted or Skyrim or something.

But most games? Fuck no.

>>383473284
that priest in new lando tells you about it hes on top of that church building will all the ghosts inside

>>383482359
That is 90% of the difficulty of every game, including tabletop games and sport.

>>383481775
But the thing is that it's a crutch, because you rely on magic and regenerating mana and don't necessarily have a chance to learn how to dodge attacks properly.
The thing is that you can make your character to be anything you wish and the differences in between starting classes aren't supposed to be as drastic as they were. Afterall, having a fixed difficulty kind of implies that, although there's always an easy way out.
To me, royalty class translates to overleveling your character massively to gain advantage.

>>383482025
>put all my SLs into magic
meant INT and ATT before someone jumps on my ass

>>383482409

No. For most games the knowledge of what to do is not enough, you also have to be able to pull it off. This is especially true for sport, you fucking retard. Souls is very forgiving in this regard, the game pace is slow, the windows of opportunity are wide, enemy AI is virtually non-existent, etc., etc. You don't actually have to be that good at playing the game, the only thing really required of you is to know whether to block, parry or roll from whatever particular attack is being done at that time and then you get all the time in the world to actually execute your decision.

>>383482449
>But the thing is that it's a crutch, because you rely on magic and regenerating mana and don't necessarily have a chance to learn how to dodge attacks properly.
But the reverse of this logic is that Knights, say, are a crutch, because they rely on melee weapons and heavy defensive equipment and don't necessarily have a chance to learn how to dodge attacks properly.

It's a self-contradictory argument insofar as it even makes sense which it doesn't, much.

>>383482449
>a fixed difficulty
Who taught you this terminology?

>>383482449
>the differences in between starting classes aren't supposed to be as drastic as they were.
But they aren't drastic. They never were. This alone precludes the reasonable designation of crutch to any one of them, because none are that different nor deficient to the bottom baseline capability.

>>383482306

What the fuck is a drake?
That looks like a dragon to me.

>>383474440
>worst combat, levels, movesets
what?

>>383484831
He's right.