what went wrong?

esports

game was never good

riot is cancer

>lol character models and skins that look like a playstation 1 game in 2014
>most played game today

sad days

Riot balancing and champion design philosophy

The new guy is a perfect example. A dash, a line target damage ability, a movement skill, and the ult is the only thing not really like other abilities but on its own is pretty lackluster

>People are understandable huge faggots on the internet
>This turns new players off from playing Riot's game
>Since the game is free to play with microtransactions this causes a loss of revenue for Riot

Pretty simple really. I miss the internet before where it was a bit more exclusive and people never took this place seriously.

>>383167862
>esports
>toxic community
>riot pandering to liberals

it's bad, but still better than DOTA 2

I still play this game but I only play ARAM

>>383167925
they decided to eat sports and that made game dull and unfun, gg rito

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Been watching footage of HOTS and it seems interesting, it's not afraid of shit like sieging structures, and talents provide an alternative system to gold and purchases to put diversity on the builds
Watched some videos on zagara and murky, and it just blows my mind the shit you can put in a fucking moba and how lol always has been putting the samey fucking characters and how scared has it always been towards allowing bullshit on structures.
Talk me about this game

>>383168486
Are you me?

Though I perfer random in almost every game.

Dota, OW, smite.

>>383168379

>entire roster is free
>custom games
>better art style/armor sets as opposed to skins
>more chances to win good shit through regular play and battle pass stuff
>no runes and masteries
>more interesting items and characters
>extremely less strict meta

Tell me again why Dota is bad? Or are you one of those cucks who has invested too much time in League to make a coherent argument?

>>383167862
Balancing is all kinds of wrong

>>383168486
Me too. Unless some friend wants to play normal

>>383168748
Unfortunately I do not like most of hots game mechanics.

But the character variety, blows everything out of the water. Murky, is by far my favorite character

>>383167925

ur retarded

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>>383168849
>>383168914
It's the only way I can enjoy this shitty game.

>>383168748

Hots is neat, its heavily team and objective based which can be neat, the games go by really fast which is nice. Also no all chat makes it way less toxic in solo queue

Its a neat variation for sure

>>383168748
Rarely will talents have two good choices, and rarely even then will you need to not go with the go-to build for countering someone on the other team

Blizzard has added alot of shit maps/modes.

>>383167862

The president of the company spent two years talking about removing the cancer that is Flash and what not, saying internal playtesting shows that the game is far healthier without it and characters deemed underpowered and bad without it are in a much better spot.

Then they got bought out by Tencent and immediately do a 180 saying Flash makes the game more fun and visually interesting and all the care about is how exciting the game looks to non-players and growing the player base which is good for everybody.

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>>383168268
>toxic

>>383168748
They should have just went ahead and made a battle arena type game since they stripped most of the MOBA elements. The characters are pretty fun to play but there's not much else going for it

The game became impossible to balance properly the instant they started adding champions to the roster continuously, so the closest thing Riot could do was create broad archetypes that champions have to be pigeon-holed into playing/building as if they want any hint at being effective. This means in the end, it doesn't matter if you're building Caitlyn, Ashe, Jinx, Vayne, Miss Fortune, or Tristana- you choose any of them, you better be building and playing an ADC, because your ass is gonna be thoroughly kicked if you're not. And that's not even touching on the cancerous community itself, or the inherent balance difference in champion spell-kits that make some objectively better than others, even in their limited roles...

The end-result is like a paint store telling people they can choose any color they want, so long as it's a shade of green, because if it's anything else you get punched in the throat- and no, they don't give a shit that the store has other colors on display, it's green or a fist. Only a matter of time until you just look for a different paint store.

>>383167862
HotS came out

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As a casual I hate how they keep removing fun builds from champs.

>No more AP trust
>No more AP udyr
>No more AP gangplank
>No more AP aatrox
>No more jungle Taric, alistar

They keep making the game unfun. What's the point of having items if you're just gonna build the same ones every game? Might as well just have it be like HoTs if you're gonna do that.

>>383173224
>No more AP Tristan.
It hurts man.

>>383167862
Bad developers made a bad game.

>>383167862

The toxic community

The racists

And it's too competitive.

>>383173224
What baffles me is how they determine what to remove and what to leave in. Some things they decide they don't like and so they gut them but then the player base will do some other things that clearly weren't intended and then they leave that in because "That's what the players decided to do". There's no way that heal was originally intended to be taken by carries, it's clearly meant for supports. It's just been that way for years now and for some reason that's fine and dandy but things like AP trist et al get patched out.

>>383173740
Why do the racists bother you?

>>383173224

Holy shit, THIS.

>No more support Veigar
>No more AD Thresh
>Absolutely no way to build TF effectively except as a completely mediocre mage

I played Twisted Fate exclusively for months in Normals in the ADC capacity to try and prove he could work as a hybrid build, and I just couldn't do it. One of only a handful of champs in the game who gets decent scaling on both his AD *and* his AP, but he's just too fragile- and his kit makes doing anything beyond a 1v1 duel a nightmare.

I can't fathom why anyone would want to play him right now, except for his ult giving global presence... but that presence doesn't mean anything if no one thinks TF is worth being cautious or afraid of, and he just can't do that until he gets waaaaaaay ahead in his item building.

And Riot will never, ever buff him, because they think he's in a good spot as a mediocre mage.

Fuck me, man.

>>383173224
>>383174009
>not being literally bronze and building whatever you please

>>383173779
exactly.

For instance, on the subject of tristana. They left her AP scaling in, but made her E physical damage making m.pen useless.

her ults AP ratio was reduced from what i remember being insane (1.2 or 1.0?) to .7 or something pathetic.

Also, her W used to set off the E explosive for awhile, and they removed that functionality.

pigeon holing champions they've designed into these roles just makes the game boring.

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>>383173224
>tfw kog was my one of favourite champs
>he used to be a shit adc so i had a blast going ap mid with him
>then he got reworked which killed ap kog and made adc kog broken
>then they nerfed adc kog to the ground
>but ap kog is still trash

>>383168881
Controls. My literally only but gamebreaking gripe with Dota. Turn times and cast animations are just not fun.

I don't defend either, I hate Riot's approach to champion balance and I think every patch makes the game more shit with their fun=toxic approach, but the precision of your controls and responsiveness is just better.

>>383173224
A lot of these were too strong though.

Old Riot had a real big issue of granting massive AP ratios to characters who would never build AP. (They didn't want people to feel bad if they built something mixed, like a sheen)


Then AP items started going through re-works making them more and more efficient, and then those old AP ratios were bonkers

>>383174149
Everyone I've talked to IRL that's stopped playing cites that they ruined their main or took out the one fun thing they liked to do. It's probably just a coincidence but at least in my experience that seems to be what's killing the game. That and all the other competition they have now I guess.

>>383174390
well, eventually they stopped giving champions mixed ratios all together. (Apart from intended hybrids like Akali)

im sure there's balance issues with it, but thats exactly why its boring.

>>383174476
>That one patch where you could build straight AP and solo mid as soraka
>Get dived by assassin shitter
>heal myself and get 100 temp armor
>Spam emotes when they die

grind2win garbage
removal of everything fun thats not meta but works
shitty metas overall

>METAGOLEM
>5 BC
>5 HoG
>muh tanky dps

Riot truly are geniuses at balancing things

They balance the game exclusively for esports so 99% of the playerbase is adhering to a forced meta that doesn't actually matter for them. High skill ceiling characters are completely useless at lower levels because if they were any better they would dominate pro play.

>>383173224
>AP Maokai will never 2shot shitters on lvl 2 again
>AP Yi never again
>AP malphite never again
>AD kata jungle never again
It somewhat makes me feel better that Leona was never good, but they lowered her base damage again recently, she's just too weak to go mid now.

>>383173224
i think the gangplank rework is the best thing to ever come out of riot, hes better in every way imaginable now imo

>>383174186
Kog is good as fuck right now

>>383175330
yeah its neato
mainly put him in that post because i failed to remember the greats like;

>ap yi
>ap maokai
>ap alistar
>ad thresh

>>383168748

Hots has the issue where the talent system is very lackluster. There is basically 2 'builds' a player can do maximum on a character and if you stray from this you are left very weak by doing some retarded hybrid build as you arent good at either instead of being good at one or the other.

A bigger issue is that since there are no items, you dont ever have a way of dealing with a character. I'll give you an example, so say youre playing Jaina, a very basic mage who doesnt have any way to move fast, you cant buy boots, a forcestaff to get away, you can only position yourself correctly and hope you dont get trained on and if you do that your tanks or supports can keep you alive somehow. Now on the opposing team theres a genji, who can run and do damage and he has a dash that does damage when he goes through you, also his dash literally goes across the screen so if you are in his vision he can literally just dash ontop of you and keep up with you until you die.

There is no counter you can build, you basically have to put up with it or hope the genji is bad enough to not go for you every time or your team is good enough to keep you alive. I mean yeah at level 20 you get iceblock which will buy you enough time to live typically but by the time youre 20, the game is over or nearly over and youve just been raped for the entirety of the game, its very frustrating.

>>383174314

turn times and cast animations are part of balance. instantly turning and shooting shit off is beyond retarded.

>>383175686
Yeah that's the only part about HotS that I don't like- they really, REALLY force the team aspect. For the most part you can't really accomplish anything by yourself unless you're playing a specialist and you just grind out XP all game, and that's boring as hell.

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Nothing

>>383175225
>AS TF
>Hybrid kayle
>Atmog mundo
>AP yi
>Dunkmaster yi
>Backdoor shaco
>Backdoor blitz
>Akali
>Jungle trundle

>>383174986
Ahri and Orianna just aren't fun when you have to concentrate and tryhard, when you can just pick Annie or Morgana mid all the way to Dia and just watch movies on the other monitor while you bully your opponent into submission.

>>383174314
You get used to the turn rates after a few hundred hours. Alternatively you could play heroes with fast turn rates

I was finally starting to get good in it and started climbing fast but I simply wasn't having fun because none of my friends play anymore so I just uninstalled

>>383175978
There used to be a cheese build you could do on Mundo with sword of the divine. It granted you 3 free crits on your next autos so you would scale your attack damage steroid instead of your cleaver and at level 9 you could hit people for 3 guaranteed 500+ crits. It was pretty crappy and didn't scale beyond that but damn that was fun. I miss things like that.

>>383167862
It's just DOTA with less coherent world design

It was wrong from the beginning.

>>383175782
And that's exactly why balance in Dota is shit.

>>383175983
The team aspect is another part of that- there are certain characters that are great in theory and see a fair amount of pro play but require way too much teamwork to be played well in solo queue. Playing Ori and trying to get people to initiate with your ult on them is so frustrating.

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>>383175782
Turn rates made sense in RTS since Dota was made in Wc3. No reason to have them in LoL and they make everything slow and not fun.

Also LoL does have cast animations.

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>gangplank got reworked from a fun pirate to a grim super serious faggot
>galio got reworked from a gargoyle statue to generic buff guy made out of stone
I fucking hate this shit. Smite did the same bullshit with Hercules and it's the reason I stopped playing it all those years ago.

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>>383175782
>"Explain why you don't like Dota 2."
>Well, I don't like the way that the controls feel unresponsive due to the turn rate mechanic.
>"TURN RATE IS PART OF BALANCE! STOP QUESTIONING IT!"
And the cycle is complete.

>No +22AD rune pre rework sion top with like 120 AD lvl 1 owning noobs

best times

>>383176182

>balance in dota is shit
>maybe a handful of heroes arent played competitively
>compared to league who's 90% of the roster is nonviable

alright i guess nice argument.

>>383167862
it's been like a decade since it came out

people moved on, gen Z has an even shorter attention span than gen Y

>>383175907
>all these salty shitters complaining about the terrible community and pandering
>we just got a rework with an ult that literally drags you into an 8 legged fat fuck that grinds people into meat soup with death saws

>>383176556
>90% of the roster is nonviable
>meanwhile there are people on top of the ladders who have gotten there with the lowest winrate champions

Really makes my almonds activate

>>383176556
>balance revolves around shit mechanics being integral part of it
>isn't shit balance

How dense are you?

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>>383176551
>critting faggots for 2/3 of their hp with trynd top before minions spawn

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>>383176548
As someone who has 2000 hours wasted on both LoL and dota I can tell you both are equal waste of time. Reached 4k in dota and realized its all pointless. Reached gold I in LoL and realized its literally pointless. It may be actually better to just stare at the wall and do nothing all day than playing these games

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>>383177009
>Lifestealing 60% of your hp with one hit with hydra and ult

I really dislike Riot forcing playstyles upon us, as in "youre playing it wrong, so we made it unusable so youre playing the way we want"....

I really enjoyed playing AP Sion... It was fuckin braindead simple bullshit... but i had fun.. and thats what matter right? Having fun with the game? No? Right? Guys?

>>383177134
>2000 hours
>gold 1
are you quite literally slow in brain?

>>383177296
LoL is super srs business

>>383168748

i only started playing HotS but to me stutter-stepping in this game feels fucking awful compared to LoL. i dunno if it's just because i'm not use to the attack animations yet, but it feels so unresponsive to attack-move so any auto-attack based hero feels clunky.

one thing i will say is nice is the map variety. although some are really shit (garden/mines) the fact that you don't have just ONE map is at least refreshing.

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Why are people talking like the game is dead, has there been some recent news about a drop in playerbase or something? Cause it's still at the top of twitch viewership all the time, with bots, and was fucking everywhere when I was over in China. They even have a league of legends branded energy drink over there.

>>383177134
>Gold I

Jesus

>>383168881
>better art style/armor sets as opposed to skins
Sorry but no way. The game is ugly as hell. Call League's boring, overly ridiculous, or whatever, but everything is clear and gets its point across. DotA fails at this.
>no runes and masteries
Is currently a very fair point due to IP costs on runes, but they are planning on fixing it in a few months with a total overhaul, assumedly removing the issue for good.
Unless you meant the system existing at all in which case I disagree and find it highly enjoyable(Outside of the costs).
>more interesting items and characters
I give you items(Though Riot is slowly pushing on this front), but absolutely not characters. I played a few hundred hours and still could not name you more than maybe five that were ever very interesting. There are standalone abilities that do neat things I would like to see League emulate, but nothing ever felt particularly cohesive.
>extremely less strict meta
If you are convinced Bot-Mid-Top-Jun-Sup is not just 1-2-3-4-5 with names, I am not sure what to tell you. To be fair, they have been pretty bad about diversity in the past, but all these reworks and newer champions have made most of the cast in some way playable. Only a few I would consider unplayable, and they still have their one-tricks.

Give you the rest though. I would love to have custom rules to play with.

>>383176447
>No reason to have them in LoL

Yeah, let's just make every melee champ have a gap closer because otherwise they just get kited to death by ranged

getting rid of wiggles lantern for https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r-fIOrUTIOQ

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>>383177307
>>383177472
I started LoL in december 2011. Started rankeds around the time when league systems rolled out. You know back in the day nobody had a fucking clue what to do so everyone just fucked around. I ended up in bronze IV and eventually got good. At that point when I was gold I i had such massive win streaks I got bored and unninstalled, only coming back every season to get gold and get rewards. Pretty much same thing, was 1,8k at one point

>>383174314
Turn rate and cast points give you the opportunity to react and escape, example:
Luna chases treant protector with low hp, luna casts lucent beam with a cast point of 0.8 (or 0.6 forgot) seconds, during that time treant turns arround and plants a tree which blocks luna's vision on him, canceling her casting of lucent beam. Treant protector escapes.
These cast points and turn rates are meant to give reaction windows which are barely in lol

>>383177296

i still play lol but this is my biggest gripe with it outside of balance grievances.

the meta is so strictly enforced it's actually insane. you cannot do ANY unconventional pick or try new strategies because riot enforces the meta and will literally ban you if you deviate from it.

>>383177868
If you're not diamond 1 you can't pick anything unconventional without getting 4x reports from your team for "trolling"
Imagine: ashe support, shaco support, lee/irelia support. all are viable mostly (or used to be like a year or 2 ago when i stopped playing)
even if you win lane and win game you will get reported by retards, and riot encourgaes that

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Urgot rework looks nice.

>>383174009
Me and a friend ran TF/Thresh duo bot lane for a while. Yellow card is great fire setting up easy hooks.

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hello lol marketers

still angry /v/ wont accept your game?

we never will!

>>383178479

That's with a duo, mate. Actual mutual respect and cooperation. With those on the table, lots of hooey suddenly becomes viable.

Take TF solo bot and tell me what happens.

>>383178095
I play shitton of Viktor, maining him since Season 3, and im fuckin having fun playing him as a support, using the spellthiefs path speedboost from damaging enemies...

I got down placement of my stuns so my carry doesnt die, and were usually able to kill anything we want...

But its out of meta, so just picking it tilts 70% of the players, which turns the game into shitshow for us... "Omg Viktor support, wtf".... "Report Viktor for Trolling" when youre the only guy with positive KDA and trying your dandiest...

fuck :/

>>383178594
>we
You are equally as retarded as all marketers, hivemind newfag.

>>383178678
When you pick something out of meta, people are just breathing down your neck and are waiting for you to fuck up, so they can blame anything that happens on you... i stopped playing him as support because of that...

Because i cant play that champion that way, even if i do well with him, people will get tilted from me just picking it, which just leads to lost game...

>>383178782
eat shit anthony burch

>>383178834
It's like when I was in bronze and went Lee support, ended with like ~30 kills, everyone else had <5, and team reported me for troll pick and for stealing kills from carry
Fun times.

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>>383176548

>spout retarded opinion
>calmly get explained why your opinion is retarded
>'HURR DOTARDS AMIRITE GUYS XD'

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>>383176447
>complaining about turn rates being slow in LoL
>gives dota as an example where turn rates make sense
begone

>>383177154
how the fuck is that possible? its fucking sion

>>383178871
>Best insult is Anthony Burch
Really are a newfag, great job lurking for a week to learn that zinger.

>>383177469
>Why are people talking like the game is dead, has there been some recent news about a drop in playerbase or something?
Nope, seems to have plateau'd though.

>>383176848
His ult is global
If you fall below 25% health while marked by the drill he can pull you from any distance.

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>>383178594
>we
Retard. You realize League is a large part of the reason /vg/ was made, right? Oh yeah, you were not here for any of that. Stop trying to fit in by force.
Also, if Riot really wanted to market here, it would not be one person posting the same thread once or twice a day. It would be verified tripcodes and such taking questions, feedback, suggestions, or whatever else like they do on other sites.

>>383167862

Class reworks that produce two cancer heroes and several shitty ones.

>>383178782
>>383179090
>>383179234

>when his whole thread is co-ordinated by the riot game marketing department

top kek 8 years libfaggots

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>Riot begging e-sports teams for 5 million dollary doos to play in their exclusive league.

>Viewership for the LCS has dropped to it's lowest level in years.

RIP

>>383179392
>Expecting me to believe that
Anyone could just say that shit, you reek of newfaggery.

>>383179505
That's probably part of why they've been putting work in other areas like cinematics, stories, merch, etc.

>>383167862
>macro snooze fest
>tanks

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Honestly nothing. Maybe it has lost some hype, but they always keep the game fresh which is nice.

It's probably more balanced than it ever was before. I'm glad that they're finally updating the rune system. Plus the new Urgot looks ridiculously fun.

The big issue for me though is jungle diversity because honestly Riot shafted most junglers.

>>383179037
You need to reread his post.

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>>383179693
making and unironically posting in a league of loserturds thread on /v/ is the most newfag thing accomplishable, friend

>People playing after season 2
>After Riot went gung ho trying to shift meta intentionally every season/half season onward
>After "viability"
>After Lyte (read: "toxicity")
>After notorious Warmog Brolaf fuck up near S3 start
>After trivialization of vision game since S3 onward
>After literal Reddit-tier community becomes so fucking terrible that they shut down GD and replaced it with Reddit
>After esports boom

I could go on, but the biggest takeaway should be just how bad the community is and its negative affects on other online games. It's embarrassing to think about how tame Xbox LIVE seemed by comparison only years into League's lifespan.

>>383170912
>expecting integrity from nu-males

>>383168075
have you ever played a playstation 1 game?

>>383172616
Good post.

>>383175330
fuck you, I enjoyed ad crit gp that could one shot adc

League is worse than ponies

>>383179817
>Discussing video games is newfag, everyone knows we only discuss the most epic of /pol/ memes kek XD
Hmm yeah, I see what you mean. Sure is convenient one of the highest influx of newfags happened with the election, isn't it?

>>383168914
only way this game can be enjoyed

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>>383178969
>Ask about a personal dislike
>Get the answer
>Tell them to just deal with it
>Get upset when they refuse
Great job convincing people. The point is not about whether the feature is well designed or not. The point is about whether someone enjoys it. Most people do not. Maybe you are using the wrong solution to a problem when a significant amount of people do not enjoy this solution. Let me tell you a little something about why this is not a problem in League: They created a better solution. Now you can get mad and call it casual or whatever instead of trying to understand the other side, and the reason why turn rates are not in fact a good idea. DotA has plenty of great features and reasons to play it. This is just not one of them, no matter how much you are convinced it is, or at the very least, most people do not see it the way you do. In fact, I have no problem with turn rates, but I understand why people hate them.
>>383179693
Stop replying to shitposters.

Shit > Dota 2 > LoL

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>>383180103
We will co-opt /v/ with our Maoist propaganda game League of Legends comrade, all /pol/ drumpf voters will be in the RiotLyte gulag any day now for toxic hate speech

>>383175330
The new urgot rework doesn't look half bad either admittedly

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>>383167862
Fuck you, I like it.

>>383167862
Standardized (homogenized) everything and having clear favoritism (Lee Sin) while ignoring others (Poppy was an example before rework along with Sion and Yorick) There's more gameplay issues but another severe issues are incompetent SJW devs and the hug-box community that'll let intentional feeders and passive-aggressive cunts roam free but the moment you say "cunt" you get 40 game chat restrictions and eventually muted and the fact that you get penalized for leaving a game is cancerous and is rather antithetical to what a game should be (something you can pick up and drop.) in my opinion.

>>383168486
died after s4. Hit diamond in s3 and I have never bothred with it since.

Ehh turn rates are a good idea, there's a reason why almost every melee champion has some sort of gapcloser or dash ability.

>Get pigeonholed into designing a particular spell on every melee champion because you don't want turn rates

Riot devs are truly retarded.

>>383176935
Pub games don't count.
He's talking about tournament viability.

Everyone forgot about the Yorick rework, but they don't know how annoying it is to play against.

>>383179735

>this damage control of a post

lol

>>383180371
Been looking at the recent chapions and shit, and they're diverting from the generic new champion formula.
Did morello choke in the shower or something?

>>383180085
You can still do that, it just requires actual set up and work now instead of being a point and click ability. When people complain about Gangplankv2, I swear this is the biggest complaint. I get it, deleting people is fun, but there has to be counterplay involved for the enemy too.

>>383172616
>they don't give a shit that the store has other colors on display, it's green or a fist.
Accurate. I don't have the screenshot, but there was that time a guy got banned for choosing random on a ranked game.
Why even have the option of picking random if you're just going to get banned for doing it? It's beyond retarded.

>Removed Sion from the game, added a new unrelated champ with the same name
>Removed Taric from the game, added a new unrelated champ with the same name
>Removed Galio from the game, added a new unrelated champ with the same name
Why do they even call those "reworks"?

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>>383180640
>Speculation is damage control
I don't stand to lose anything from them going belly-up. Non-fighting game esports is trash anyway.

I stopped playing LoL for years and remembered I got an account with all the heroes and a lot of skins. Do you think people would buy the account?

>>383180648
IIRC Morello got pulled off the team so he can work on Riots next game.

Which will most likely be a flop since Riot only got lucky with League of Legends and they don't have any idea on how to make a new game at all.

>>383167862
Forcing a meta
Not removing flash

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It became super popular and now /v/ has to hate it because not hating popular games revokes your invisible /v/ membership card.

>>383180861
I call them "improvements"

>>383180486
That's a stretch though. 90% of the roster isn't non-viable.

At least, there are 3 contested picks per role and a pool of 10 and that's not counting pocket picks by players and regions. Usually across all regions at least 80% of the champion gets played. Aatrox, Akali and Jinx were played in the last month and they are really unpopular

>>383180575
original Yorick before the nerf to his red ghoul was the king of top lane. Good times.

>>383181210
league of legends threads have always been shitposted to death and redirected to vg and rightly so

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>Riot admits to having balancing bias.
>Riot won't nerf Lee Sin too hard because they like him in E$port$.
>Riot admits that lack of turn rates creates balancing issues

Shit game, shit developers.

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>>383180927
Next game is a Rework of Rising thunder.

Unless riot figures out a way for you to blame your team instead of yourself in fighting games its gonna flop.

>>383181210
I don't hate popular games, I hate shit games.
Many popular games tend to be shit, and League happens to be one of them.

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>>383177658
Except not all melee champions have gapclosers.

>>383177482
>I played a few hundred hours and still could not name you more than maybe five that were ever very interesting.
The game objectively has more unique abilities and less role shoehorning. Your shitty opinions don't make that go away.

>If you are convinced Bot-Mid-Top-Jun-Sup is not just 1-2-3-4-5 with names, I am not sure what to tell you.
It completely and utterly isn't, are you actually retarded? 1-5 is just farm priorities and has absolutely nothing to do with the types of heroes and what lanes they're in.

>>383181390
It'll flop, FGC won't touch it with a 20 foot pole.

>>383167862
It became too popular
Normies first game

>he plays communist funded social engineering propaganda

keking at ur pathetic lives tbqhwufamily

>>383181492
Darius does have a gap closer though (or at least used to, I haven't played in years).
Unless pulling people towards you doesn't count as closing the gap.

People dodging drafts is what kills it for me.

>>383181492
Darius has a pull, Garen has a sprint, Skarner has a spammable slow.

>>383181390
Riot is making a fighting game? I forsee that shit flopping hard...

>>383179991
take a look at <2015 triangle feet Yi or Sivir

>ASSFAGGOTS
Need more be said?

the biggest problem with this game is that if you don't want to adapt, you're fucked

for example, let's say you get attached to a champion simply because he apeals to you in someway or another

be 100% sure that when the time comes this champion WILL be changed/reworked/nerfed in a way that you will be unable to feel enjoyment from it ever again

this feeling can be devastating for some people, possibly making them outright quit the game

>>383180927

Its funny because only reason LoL is still relevant is due to HoN not being F2P at launch

>>383181552
Most FGC members loved Rising thunder.

It just needs to be easy to play but not incredibly simple.

Just because you remove special inputs from the game doesn't mean its automatically to easy to play.

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>>383181997

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>>383181210
I still remember when /v/ used to have lol threads back in season 1 and 2 and we would play for the lulz. Qtpie and Pobelter would play here too. Then LoL exploded in S3 so since it got popular it became normie thrash.

>>383182023
This
I quit because they reworked all of my favorite characters into uninspired streamlined samey garbage with none of the original playstyle focus intact

I had no characters left, so I stopped playing

>>383181210
>Legit complains equals blind hate

>>383180927
Goddamn, it's so noticeable how he was one of the biggest cancers of the game
>Korean tournament has a team that found out a way to allah ackbar all three first towers in the first five minutes
>Community explodes
>Next update after that includes an arbitrary armor buffs to towers for the first 10 min

What's the new big bad evil now?

>>383181847
This holy shit
>Forced to play by some friends guilting me (we usually play HoTS)
>Literally 5 to 10 minutes of waiting for queue, banning, picking, etc
>Some faggot dodges on the enemy team
>Repeat
It takes too damn long to get a game going and then that game either is surrendered at 20 resulting in an unsatisfying win or an hour long slog.

>>383182217
Shit, when was this? I haven't played from season 3 to 7.

>>383167862
>enabling voice communication soon
How did they finally get it right?

>>383182023

I remember in S2 learning a build off of mobafire for Nasus that was like a gift from God.

And then, going into s3, they nerfed ALL the tank items.

>>383167862
Not enough Sona porn.

>>383181917
You're looking at the last of the day 1 models from a 2009 game made to have low system requirements, models that aren't even in the game anymore

There are a million completely legitimate problems worth trashing LoL over, so it's beyond me why anyone still clings to graphics

>>383182352
On the plus side, at least they get all the bans out of the way in the first thirty seconds of champ select now, so it's like a permanent 3 minutes off the wait time, every time.

>>383182362
I dont know anymore, I havent played in ages. The most I can tell you is that I quitted between the plant girl and girl that could toss tibbers back to annie

>>383182650
is someone paying you to post here?

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>>383180485
Let me present it to you this way:
The end goal is having melee and ranged characters both be viable.
You can either use turn rates, which people seem to generally dislike, feels clunky and slow, etc. but granted it does work, or you can have more mobility options, which feel faster and smoother to the player and avoid the general problems turnrates bring for player control and feedback with the drawback being that yes, melee characters need some sort of mobility ability. With all the ways that can be implemented and balanced, it is really not a gigantic disaster like people love to push the narrative on.
Why are people surprised when someone says they prefer not having turn rates?
>>383180648
There have been plenty of positive staff changes relatively recently, to leave it short.
>>383180832
That was many years ago. People are right to keep flaming the guy for it, but that kind of garbage does not fly anymore as company policy.
>>383180861
>Remove champions almost nobody uses
>Add champions people might actually use, without further expanding the roster size
Yes.
>>383181535
You seem particularly open to conversation on this subject. Glad we came to reasonable discourse and not calling each other retarded over differences in views.

>>383167925
fpbp

>>383182650
I would have nothing against Sion's rework if he remained the Zombie Arnie he was before. Same with Galio and GP. Why change the characters too, instead of only their skills?

>>383182650
>>383182761
t. Riot employee

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God, i miss HoN

>all this redditspacing
please go back to vg or to reddit

>>383182650
It doesn't matter how good or more fun a rework is, there will always be people unsatisfied
I'd argue that most unsatisfied people are here on /v/ and the ones who either like it or just tolerate it are on the /vg/ general

>>383181871
>Skarner has a spammable slow
No he doesn't. He has a movespeed steroid and a stun.

>>383182650
>The big majority of reworked champions are more fun to play.
As a player of Soraka, Ryze, Malzahar, Darius, Heimer and Morde, I respectfully disagree.

There are occasional good reworks, but the vast majority of them just turn champions into generic role-forced slogs and kill off all of their identity and unique playstyle flavors.

>yfw this entire thread is riot employees
>they only post to force their shit faggot game onto /v/

makes you think

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>>383182884
I wish, friend. Would mean having more money.

>>383182912
I miss y2k style launchers

>>383182217
>What's the new bad evil
Shitty writers

>>383182761
>You seem particularly open to conversation on this subject. Glad we came to reasonable discourse and not calling each other retarded over differences in views.
>No counter argument
Nice
Sorry you have absolutely no clue what position 1-5 actually means and you can't tell the difference between facts and opinions!

>>383174009
Support veig is still good

jayce is the only patrician main

I played LoL around 2009-2010.

Characters like Yi, Jax and Trynda with 100% crit + max attack speed + life steal + their passive resistances used to carry pretty much every game

How much did the game change since them?

>>383182871
Old Sions is still in the passive

>>383183012
Yeah when Galio came out all the 11 players that played him complained yet now a vast majority of players enjoy it, much better.

>>383183097
Soraka sure but all of those other champions are still fun to me. Morde is still a beast in top lane and now he can be played bot with Blitz, also bopping someone with 3rd Q and Ult is the best. Before the rework no one played Malzahar or Heimer, now they are actually seen. Like what, Riot is going to left old champions untouched because a few people main them and don't want change? They can't do that.

>>383182761
>You hurt my feelings so I'm not going to counter your arguments

underage

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Anthony Burch works for Riot which means it will soon be Xayah-tier quips on every character and lore stories.
I'm out.

>>383182761
>Why are people surprised when someone says they prefer not having turn rates?
because implementing turn rates would be a simple solution that brings an inheret balancing factor along with it. Without turn rates you have to always give melee heroes a mobility spell. Imagine how many possibilities would open up if every melee hero pretty much gained a spell slot. Because that's something that would happen with turn rates.

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>>383176491
>you will never play old gp with old zekes herald

>>383183352

We have Yasuo, Jax, Trynda, Yi, Shyvanna, and even ((Aatrox)) now.

>>383183097
Nigga Darius' rework turned him into Super Darius

>>383183435
>but all of those other champions are still fun to me.
I don't know, I just think it's a giant middle finger to the community when they just delete a character thousands of people love to play and make a new, unrelated one with the same name.

The fact that the original designs almost always have more identity and unique power is just the icing on the shit cake

>>383183197
I'd take a job at McDonald's over working at Riot.

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>>383183562

>you always have to give melee champions a mobility spell

Not really.

>>383183352
Mobile, bursty assassins with grossly overloaded kits have pretty much taken that role now.
Look up Yasuo's and make sure you have a bucket handy

>>383183435
>Before the rework no one played Malzahar or Heimer
Absolute tons of people played them before the rework. I don't know what you're smoking.

>>383174009

I'm a Diamond 3 and one of my main champs is TF.

>mediocre mage

What elo are you? TF has the strongest lane control on mid lane and an insane global pressure 6+. He's not mediocre, you fucking silver scrub. TF is one of the champions that scale the most with your skill. If your TF is mediocre, so are you.

You don't need anything other than CDR boots to set up shit botlane and snowball the game. Sheen is a plus.

>>383183097
>Heimer
It hurts. I loved the little guy. All he ever needed was a small buff, not an entire rework.

back in my day the only RNG LoL had was crit (except good teammates of course) and DotA was overflowing with it
this alone makes LoL better in my eyes

>>383184019
>A complete garbage game with barely any RNG is better than an objectively superior game with more RNG but also more ways to counter it
wew

>>383183812
Ok, a gap closer then.

>>383184014

He's literally better than ever.

>>383184154
Nobody who complains about reworks is talking about their viability, you fucking retard.

>>383180463
:S becoming the biggest game in the world is a weird way to die

>>383184154
I'm not saying he became unplayable. I'm saying he became generic.

>>383184331
>biggest game in the world thanks largely due to China

fixed.

When China moves on to the next big thing Riot is fuckeddd.

>>383184104
>more RNG but also more ways to counter it
well this is bullshit, do you really defend this? endless compilations of perfect Void backtracks on YT should give you the answer

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>>383183238
Having studied both extensively, both are really not that far removed. From the way you reply, you are not going to bother listening to me if I go in-depth anyway, so I will return the favor.
>>383183496
You can call me whatever names you want, but why am I going to bother having a drawn out discussion with someone like that? Waste of both our times. This is going to sound crazy, but I do not actually have to take a trade where I respect him like authority for him to respect me as a person. If he wants to discuss something like an adult instead of a ninth grade student, I am willing to listen. If I want to discuss something that in-depth with a DotA player, I can just ask one of the plenty I know do not act like this guy, or you for that matter.
>>383183562
At the cost of unsatisfying inputs for many players and slower gameplay. It is all about opportunity costs. I respect Valve's decision to choose turn rates, but I prefer Riot's decision to use gapclosers. Pros and cons to both.
>>383183761
It takes all kinds.

League is actually a better game than it was 5+ years ago, but I think many people just have their nostalgia googles on and only try to remember the fun parts. The game could be in pretty much any state, but as long as there is change people will comlain. It may still have many flaws today, but it was WAY more flawed back then, it was just more unexplored.

Roles for champions may definitely be streamlined but it is the best way to balance a game with such a huge roster.

The new champs and reworks are also way better than back then (except for their release balance, fuck you Riot for things like release Camille).

Remember old Poppy being an unkillable and unstoppable deathmachine that just marked you for death but was unplayable in lane? Remember how fun it was to lane against AP Warwick or AP Yi? Remember how half of old Sions kit was useless regardless of how you build him, while being braindead either way? Remember Kassadin, Talon and Leblanc when they could silence you, giving no counterplay whatsoever? Remember when flash had way more range and way less cooldown (and people still complain about flash to this day)

>>383183435
It's people like this that enable Riot's faggotry. That not only allow Riot to go through the game and completely fucking destroy it, character by character, skin by skin, but also cheer them on while doing it.

>>383180575
I didn't. It always feels good to dig

>>383184663
Backtrack was removed from the game ages ago, and even if it was still a thing they've added far more items to disable passive abilities. MKB disables evasion chance, blademail screws over crit carries, and anything with break counters any of this. The only reason dodge and crit are problematic from the perspective of LoL players is because their game doesn't provide you with any way to counter those mechanics. In the LoL bubble, it actually is pure uncontrollable RNG.

>>383184663
I'm not him but most of the RNG has been toned down compared to how worse it was back in the day.

http://dota2.gamepedia.com/Random_distribution

League of Legends still suffers from highly unbalanced game mechanics.

>Masteries and runes
>Snowballing with little comeback ability
>Bullshit RNG objectives (Dragons)

>>383184746
>Having studied both extensively, both are really not that far removed.
Doesn't seem like it, since they are very far removed. One of the most significant differences between LoL and Dota is their meta.

>>383184746
>Having studied both extensively, both are really not that far removed. From the way you reply, you are not going to bother listening to me if I go in-depth anyway, so I will return the favor.
Alright, so you're admitting you have no counter argument and you were wrong.

Is it really that hard to just admit you were wrong about farm priorities being the same thing as forced lane and team comp positions? Is it really that hard to admit that regardless of which you find more enjoyable, LoL doesn't have anything like ability stealing/reflecting or true multi-unit control?

Is bullshitting around it and making a fool of yourself really better?

>>383184908
>Roles for champions may definitely be streamlined but it is the best way to balance a game with such a huge roster.
The problem is having such a huge roster in the first place. If they didn't shit out a new character every month, they wouldn't have to streamline them to keep balance.

When's Diana rework?

She is either

> IM A USELESS FUCK
> NO FUN ALLOWED

>>383184908
>Roles for champions may definitely be streamlined but it is the best way to balance a game with such a huge roster.
The fact that Dota's hero pool is just as big but doesn't design them into any kind of roles yet the game has far wider pick/ban viability proves this wrong

man all these newfags who don't remember shit like sunfire sundays.

They went full retard releasing 6 gorillions of characters and items. Like nigga, I'm not gonna study to memorize a shitton of things that changes every month because metas to play a game.

>>383185619
Back in seasons 1 and 2 they shat out a new champion every two weeks, the absolute madmen.

MOBA is an inherently shit genre.

>>383167862
season 3 happened

>>383184908
>Remember old Poppy being an unkillable and unstoppable deathmachine that just marked you for death but was unplayable in lane?
Sounds like a fair trade
>Remember how fun it was to lane against AP Warwick or AP Yi?
Riot could have simply toned down their AP rates.
>Remember how half of old Sions kit was useless regardless of how you build him, while being braindead either way?
Yes, and it was awesome. Just like Poppy, it was a fair trade. Go AP to gain massive nuking power at the cost of a useless ult, or go AD to become a killing machine that is useless if you're not in melee range constantly.
>Remember Kassadin, Talon and Leblanc when they could silence you, giving no counterplay whatsoever?
Blame Riot for never creating any counterplay to silence.
>Remember when flash had way more range and way less cooldown (and people still complain about flash to this day)
People still complain about Flash because the spell is indeed OP in LoL, but at this point the game has wrapped around it so much that they cannot remove it/nerf it further.

>>383182650
the character ive been playing for 5 years has been deleted from the game by some riot fucktard who just started playing the game last year and theres idiots like you defending them

>>383185849
Why compare with Dota though? League is not designed like Dota. As it is now it works for LoL, and you can still play any champ you want on any position in normals.

Dota and LoL are just two games from the same genre, but people always think there can only be one or the other. Next thing people try to say that Battlefield shouldn't be the way it is because Counter Strike exists.

>>383186064
Yeah but the game was starting back then, they had to release champions to even form a roster in the first place. They should have slowed down after reaching 100+ champs.

>>383185003
LoL actually had dodge and there was an item to counter it for a brief time. LoL also had the same crit mechanic as DotA and it also had an equivalent of blademail too.
The problem is I don't see the end of this exist-counter thing. Removing RNG altogether/giving items new passives seems healthier than trying to counter every single opponent. There is a huge difference between the high and low ends of CK stun and you may think "you should have positioned better/you should have bought BKB" etc but that isn't always the case
>>383185058
Masteries and runes are bullshit but it only applies to low leveled players
I really don't know about the balance of LoL anymore, I quit both 2-3 years ago so I can't tell anything but it's nice that DotA toned down the RNG

>>383184908
>League is actually a better game than it was 5+ years ago, but I think many people just have their nostalgia googles on and only try to remember the fun parts
Wrong.

The meta actually shifted and changed all the time. There were multiple ways to play, every hero was useful to some degree, etc.

Now it's 1/1/1/2 every fucking game, the map isn't asymmetrically mirrored anymore, and the game has been dominated by broken bullshit that Riot refuses to fix on a mechanical level.

>The new champs and reworks are also way better than back then
No. They take any give champ, remove them from the game completely, and then add a new champ and say it's the same one. That's not a rework. On top of that most of the reworks are because they made these champions unplayable to begin with because they strayed too far from the meta.

>Remember old Poppy being an unkillable and unstoppable deathmachine that just marked you for death but was unplayable in lane?
She was perfectly playable, right up until they shit all over her kit and made her unplayable.

> Remember how fun it was to lane against AP Warwick or AP Yi?
About as fun as it is right now playing against any tanky DPS that's high tier or above.

>Remember how half of old Sions kit was useless regardless of how you build him, while being braindead either way?
No, because that's absolutely not true at all.

>Remember Kassadin, Talon and Leblanc when they could silence you, giving no counterplay whatsoever?
Yeah, now everyone just dashes three screens away to their safe space whenever something bad happens. Really upped that counter play.

>Remember when flash had way more range and way less cooldown (and people still complain about flash to this day)
I remember when Shurelia was trying to get it removed and Riot frothed at the mouth and said it was healthy for the game, despite the fact that it obviously wasn't as it has been nerfed over a dozen times and has caused a massive mobility creep.

>>383181997

Nobody except autists call it that and it doesnt even make any sense

>>383167862
This weird perception that the game is hard to play so people feel like they are good at the game when they suck but they can blame their team

>>383183982

>HOW DARE YOU SAY TF IS ANYTHING BUT AMAZINGRRBLLBRBBLLRBLL
>plays him exclusively mid as a mage
>but totally knows how to play him bot as an ad/apc as well

h'okay champ.

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>>383167862
Why would anyone eat it? I wonder.

>>383184908
Remember when TF gold card was a aoe stun and his port skill was on his E?

>>383186618
That's pretty much when they started slowing down. After Elise, who was champion #106, the biweekly champion releases were turned into monthly and then bimonthly.

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>>383185278
>forced lane and team comp positions
You can just ask if you are not sure about something, because that has not been a thing for years now.
>LoL doesn't have anything like ability stealing/reflecting or true multi-unit control
Those are nice features in DotA I would like to see in League as well. That has nothing to do with choices being fairly open for character selection in both though.
I will just ignore the rage for you. It used to be fun but I am too old to do it back now. I have other ways to relieve stress.

>>383186453
>Sounds like a fair trade
Still horrible designed. She was clunky to play as and impossible to play against. Again this just sounds like nostalgia to me.
>Riot could have simply toned down their AP rates.
But then they wouldn't be played on AP anymore. The only reason people played them AP was because it was overpowered.
Master Yi for example could only Alpha Strike a minion wave and walk to his tower again, if he couldn't do that because of worse AP ratios it wouldn't work. And his Alpha Strike and reset playstyle still exists with AD Yi.
>Yes, and it was awesome. Just like Poppy, it was a fair trade. Go AP to gain massive nuking power at the cost of a useless ult, or go AD to become a killing machine that is useless if you're not in melee range constantly.
>Blame Riot for never creating any counterplay to silence.
Fair enough to some degree, but it would still force an item buy on every champion just to counter their silence and would still leave no counterplay in the early game.
>People still complain about Flash because the spell is indeed OP in LoL, but at this point the game has wrapped around it so much that they cannot remove it/nerf it further.
I won't argue that its not OP, because it is. At least some champions have the option to take another summoner (like Shaco, Hecarim or Singed).
Like it is now it works in LoL. No champion is completely reliant on it anymore (like old Galio for example) and forcing it from your oponent provides meaningful rewards in a more action focused moba.

Sure flash wouldn't work in Dota where you have far less but more meaningful engages, but in LoL you have constant trades and far more interaction with the enemy, especially in the early game.

>>383187859
Aint flash called blink in dota?

How is Riven these days?

I remember playing her non stop when she came out. Getting the combos down was damn fun.

>>383187859
>She was clunky to play as and impossible to play against.
Which is why she was always bottom to mid tier I guess. Because she was so incredibly overpowered.

>The only reason people played them AP was because it was overpowered.
MR was so easy to build back then. These comments just make me think you were/are an absolute shitter.

>No champion is completely reliant on it anymore
Every champ is reliant on it, almost 100% of the time, because not having it is a massive fucking detriment.

>>383188274

She's still the go-to one trick character.
If someone picks Riven in a ranked game and I'm top lane, I'm definitely clinching my anus.

>>383188274
only autismos on twitch play him, nothing changed

>>383173224

I understand why they did it. The reason all those champions worked with AP back then was because they're ratios were stupidly high, to make it feel good to use the stats from things like sheen. The problem was that a lot of those old champion rotations left little room for counterplay, especially AP Tristana and Sion.

I will say that I miss AP Kog and play it whenever I roll him in ARAM. It doesn't feel the same but it's a little fun.

Some reworks are alright though; Gangplank's barrel mechanic is fun and interesting, and Urgot's new kit looks much more enjoyable to play with.

>>383188274
played by tons of shitter 'mains' who buy all the skins then flaunt their tier7 badge whenever they do anything

>>383188243

Requires an item which costs a fair bit amount of money. Downside to it is that youre now lacking 1 item slot just to blink, so youre gimping yourself depending on the character ontop of setting back your actual items.

It isnt free like it is in league.

>>383188472

Not him, but their AP ratios on their abilities is what made them broken though.

Not to mention the fact that the self-heals from the AP yi and Trynd were ridiculous. Tone down the AP ratios and they wouldn't be played.

>>383167862

this game started the "toxic" meme

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>>383188274
Still Riven. Got a nice skin a few weeks ago.

>>383186930
>No. They take any give champ, remove them from the game completely, and then add a new champ and say it's the same one. That's not a rework. On top of that most of the reworks are because they made these champions unplayable to begin with because they strayed too far from the meta.
You even say it yourself. Some champions were so horrible designed back then that they had pretty much no choice but to completely change them. And to be honest for a champion pool this large the amount of champs that get the Sion treatment is quite small. The heroes didn't stray from the meta because they were created when there was no meta. When people realized how the game worked they also noticed how trashy some of the old kits were.
Smaller reworks on the other hand are for the most part fantastic, just look at Gankplank. He was completely boring and the barrels now give him complexity while he still has 3 of his old skills.

>No, because that's absolutely not true at all.
Holy shit how deluded can you be if you really think Sions old kit was anywhere near acceptable? His passive and two of his skills only benefitted AD/Tanky Sion and his Shield and Stun only worked with AP. AD Sion was pretty much always trash anyway so he was a mage that clicked on you with a stun, let his shield explode and could do nothing anymore.

remember when gangplank was the only champion in the game with a deny mechanic on his E

>>383187839
>You can just ask if you are not sure about something, because that has not been a thing for years now.
It's even forced into the fucking matchmaking now. Don't delude yourself. It's only becoming more and more forced as a part of the game. Dota has nothing even close to this.
This also still has nothing to do with you claiming position 1-5 means something different than what it does, and still ignoring it.

>That has nothing to do with choices being fairly open for character selection in both though.
You originally said Dota had less interesting items and characters, so now you're backpedaling.

>>383188472
>Which is why she was always bottom to mid tier I guess. Because she was so incredibly overpowered.
I never said she was overpowered, I even said myself that she had a horrible lane as she fit in no position.

>MR was so easy to build back then. These comments just make me think you were/are an absolute shitter.
Funny how this makes you sound like the shitter, because AP Yi, Trynda and WW were indeed owerpowered. You could build mr against any mage back then too, but they were still viable. The AP ratios were just too good, and that was the only reason they were played AP.
>Every champ is reliant on it, almost 100% of the time, because not having it is a massive fucking detriment.
What I mean is that their kits aren't reliant on flash anymore. Riot could just as well say that you now always have flash and one other summoner of your choice, then most crying babies like yourself would probably shut up as they accept it as a game mechanic. But as it is now you still have the option to take something else, an option that some champions take advantage of, even if not many.

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>>383189136
no

>complaining about flash
jesus christ it's a 5 minute cd. either match theirs with yours and negate it or time it and you have a huge power window. there's nothing wrong with flash and it opens up a shit load of combos and cancels but i guess your average shitter doesn't know that

>>383189136
Do any other champs have a deny?

>>383190326
80% of the complains boild down to
>Wah its not Dota
anyway. 10% are from people who have only played the game in season 1-2 and then never again and think the game was better back.
Only the remaining 10% have valid complains and you could have a discussion for them if these threads weren't shit up by the other 90%.

>>383188691
>Not to mention the fact that the self-heals from the AP yi and Trynd were ridiculous.
Ignite, pick anyone that inflicted grievous wounds.

Kat consistently shit all over AP Yi, WW, and Trynd.

>>383188990
>You even say it yourself. Some champions were so horrible designed back then that they had pretty much no choice but to completely change them.
I never said that anywhere, but ok.

>When people realized how the game worked they also noticed how trashy some of the old kits were.
At this point I'm convinced you didn't play LoL the first few years after release. The only other explanation is that you were completely clueless as to whatever you were doing at the time.

People didn't just suddenly realize "how the game worked" Riot nerfed everything down into the ground. Any kind of emergent tactic like heal-poke, double jungle, 1v2 lanes, AP top, 2 mid, roam, lane rotation, picking ghost over Flash, the list just goes on and on and on. Riot nerfed ALL of these things until the game became the 1/1/1/2 meta, and then they began specifically designing champions, items, and kits, precisely for and to enforce that meta, then they systematically went back and destroyed every champion that didn't fit into it, Poppy being a perfect example.

>Holy shit how deluded can you be if you really think Sions old kit was anywhere near acceptable?
It worked fine right up until Renekton was released, and suddenly every champion released from then on had a ton of dashes, healing, damage, and utility. Then they went back and nerfed him because he could sit on certain broken heroes too well and his hybrid kit made him too unpredictable for some match ups.

This is how we reached the state we're in now. There's no arguing any of this shit.

>>383189729
>impossible tot play against =/= overpowered.
Well ok then.

>Funny how this makes you sound like the shitter, because AP Yi, Trynda and WW were indeed owerpowered.
Guess that's why they were garbage tier for years.

>>383179234
/vg/ was made because of Katawa Shojo and Starcraft 2, nice revisionist history though.

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>>383189371
>forced into the fucking matchmaking now
Is having three players assigned to a lane each, with one supporting the one that requires most farm to get going and another that generally roams around in the jungle forced? Is that not in DotA? I mean you can trilane in both too if you try to bring that up. You can have the support roam too. You really seem convinced on this though, so hey, you do you. All they did was implement a way for players to generally choose what they want to play as. It avoids character select arguments like, "me mid or me feed" breaking out between three players. For some reason, this is a bad thing to people, but then again, they do not understand it.
>different than what it does
Farm priority. I used to place too much importance on the idea too, but it boils down to this.
>backpedaling
Characters being boring and characters being playable in different roles have no correlation. Characters can be interesting and stay in a single role. Characters can be boring despite being able to fit in four roles. If you just want to angrily claim backpedaling where there is none, we will not reach anywhere.

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>>383167862
1. Casualization.
2. Reddit getting a say in things

>>383190687
Honestly you know someone is crazy if they honestly think that Sion and Warwick were better off before their reworks.

>>383190326
>jesus christ it's a 5 minute cd.
That's kind of its problem. It's this huge power shot that's given to you for free and you don't have to trade anything out for it, but it's got a huge cooldown so it creates large waves of passive play while yours is off and your opponent's is up.

And the solution wouldn't be to just lower the cooldown, the problem is that increasing the cooldown is the only way to make its current design really work so the actual solution would just be to scrap it and reimplement the mobility it creates in some other manner.

>>383190731
>At this point I'm convinced you didn't play LoL the first few years after release. The only other explanation is that you were completely clueless as to whatever you were doing at the time.
>People didn't just suddenly realize "how the game worked" Riot nerfed everything down into the ground. Any kind of emergent tactic like heal-poke, double jungle, 1v2 lanes, AP top, 2 mid, roam, lane rotation, picking ghost over Flash, the list just goes on and on and on. Riot nerfed ALL of these things until the game became the 1/1/1/2 meta, and then they began specifically designing champions, items, and kits, precisely for and to enforce that meta, then they systematically went back and destroyed every champion that didn't fit into it, Poppy being a perfect example.
I played since release and saw every kind of meta since then, but you wouldn't care either way.

The first few years LoL was unexplored, many things were OP for months if not years but people didn't find them yet or they weren't popularized yet. The game was an uncoordinated mess until around season 2, and guess what 1/1/1/2 existed in season 2.

It took a long time for people to take the game more seriously and find the optimal way to play it. Sure there were things like the poke meta where every team had soraka and heimerdinger or it would lose, but that was because the heroes and items themselves were so obviously overpowered that anyone would now this. These were things before season 1, before people could go to twitch and look on how competetiv LoL works. You only saw 2 people top because the players didn't know any better or weren't even level 30 yet.

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>>383173224
I just want my toggle sivir back. Or at least effects applied to all hits.

>Its another Ryze rework

>>383190816
>Is having three players assigned to a lane each, with one supporting the one that requires most farm to get going and another that generally roams around in the jungle forced?
Yes? How is assigning players to specific jobs in specific spots on the map not forcing it?

>Is that not in DotA?
Nope, not at all. You often don't have a jungler, the map isn't mirrored so there's no specific top/bottom distinction, you can trilane, etc. You don't select anything before you queue, people don't call roles once you connect, you work out an effective layout on the fly for the heroes and styles you want to play once everyone's together.

>I mean you can trilane in both too if you try to bring that up.
No you can't, because the game is designed so it isn't viable. Anything other than the 1/1/2/jung meta that ever rotates into flavor gets forced out by future balance patches making it inviable. Even if other comps were viable, you'll never get everyone to agree to switch their roles around since they already picked something in the standard forced 1/1/2/jungle layout before queuing and the players all know that layout is a thing because Riot designs their game for it to be the most effective.

>Farm priority. I used to place too much importance on the idea too, but it boils down to this.
Yeah, and farm priority has literally nothing to do with forcing a team comp and lane layout. Any team comp and lane layout will have a farm priority, it's an entirely independent concept. You're a moron.

>Characters being boring and characters being playable in different roles have no correlation. Characters can be interesting and stay in a single role. Characters can be boring despite being able to fit in four roles. If you just want to angrily claim backpedaling where there is none, we will not reach anywhere.
Beforehand you said LoL had more varied and interesting abilities, now you aren't claiming it anymore. That's called backpedaling.

>>383191802
This post just illustrates to me that you were one of the very people that had no fucking clue how to play the game when it was released. Some shitter who stumbled into LoL after scrubbing through some other MOBA for a few games, if even that.

People knew what they were doing, obviously to a lesser extent today as there was less incentive to be knowledgeable about the game, but denying that Riot has artificially killed emergent gameplay is just stupid.

People played 2 top because jungle ganks didn't consist of Champions capable of flying out of the corner of your screen and CCing you down. Jungle wasn't consistently better than just farming in the top.

>>383190326

>even with 5 minute cd it has nearly 100% pick rate
>nothing wrong with flash tho

lol

>>383167925

this.

>>383192384
I love how you just spout nonsense and try to invalidate what I say by insulting me instead of bringing up actual arguments. This just shows how buttblasted you are.

Go ahead and look at the Ionia vs Noxus match, which was almost the peak of competitiveness back then. After that try and say to me again that people had any idea what they were doing. It was totally unoptimized play. It also highlighted how broken Shurelya's Reverie was with Udyr, which not many people knew before, to the point that even the caster were shocked on how good it was.

Jungling was always the best option because of how gold and exp efficient it was, not because of the ganks. Fewer champs could jungle back then because the jungle was much harder, so most junglers like Yi and WW didn't have much cc because they needed dps and sustain in their kits.

>>383191172
They really just need to give Flash a "charge" system.

You start the game with 1 charge, then after that you need to buy another charge from the shop, with the price increasing with every purchase.

>>383192041
>not forcing it
Are you saying that before this system, nobody went into a lane each, with the fourth player supporting another while also roaming and taking care of misc and the fifth generally taking jungle camps and ganking primarily or just hard camping a lane? Understand how ridiculous this assertion is. That is not forced, it is natural progression. Do you also believe in forced 50% win rates?
>don't have a jungler
You generally do.
>no specific top/bottom distinction
>What is safe and offlane?
>You don't select anything before you queue
Which, if you read, I already told you does nothing but encourage people fighting over roles. You are lying to yourself if you want to tell me everybody very easily just cooperates every game on role selection. Queuing up for two/more roles and having an assignment you yourself chose solves this almost entirely. It only becomes an annoyance in very high elo where there are less players available.
Why am I bothering? You are being highly disingenuous.
>No you can't, because the game is designed so it isn't viable
That is wrong. You absolutely can.
>You're a moron
>That's called backpedaling.

We are done. I am not going to keep dealing with a dishonest person. Abilities are not roles. You are flat out strawmanning at this point. Goodbye. Reply to me pretending you won like a pigeon on a chessboard, but I am not reading it, and all you did was make me sure I am right in what I am saying.

>>383194219
>"charge" system.
Might be interesting. I like it.

>>383194696
>You generally do
not the him but the only dota experience you have is 2k stuff. hard to take you seriously

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>>383177134
>320
>forever Silver

i've just admit that im just shit at the game and will never reach an higher. Playing with friends in norms when they want to is all ive been doing.

>>383194696
>Are you saying that before this system, nobody went into a lane each, with the fourth player supporting another while also roaming and taking care of misc and the fifth generally taking jungle camps and ganking primarily or just hard camping a lane?
No? Where the fuck did I say this? It was always forced via the game's design (well, after the end of season 1 or whenever they started adopting it), all I said was that now it's ALSO part of the matchmaking so it's being forced even harder than before. Please learn to read.

>What is safe and offlane?
Asymmetric lane classifications that are different on each side of the map and that don't always have the same hero structure occupying. What's your point?

>Which, if you read, I already told you does nothing but encourage people fighting over roles.
This is complete bullshit. A strict, forced meta is what causes people to fight over roles, and this is exactly why Riot had to add the pre-queue role slot selection, because the game being designed around 5 strict positions means people are more likely to gravitate to specific things and hate playing other specific ones. When the game's team comp and lane positioning is flexible, people are less likely to fight over roles because the comp can be flexed around to fit what people are playing. What happens in LoL when two people want carry? Someone's shit out of luck. In Dota? You make two duo lanes and have two duo lanes. You have no clue what you're talking about.

>You generally do.
No, you don't. Even if you did, that's still a lot less than always and that means it's less rigid and forced.

>That is wrong. You absolutely can.
Nope. It doesn't happen in pro games, and any time something like this actually does begin to gain popularity, Riot considers it "wrong" and patches the game for it to no longer be viable. That's what forcing a meta means.

>>383193473
There's no arguments to be made. I'm stating what happened and you're just saying random opinionated and/or uninformed shit.

>Go ahead and look at the Ionia vs Noxus match, which was almost the peak of competitiveness back then.
Dear fucking god you're clueless.

That wasn't the peak of competitiveness you blathering idiot. Riot hand-picked the participants because they were healthy members of the game, not because they were top ELO eSports players. Guardsman Bob was a fucking awesome and entertaining streamer to watch at the time, buy he wasn't exactly stellar at the game. In fact one of the biggest complaints about the IvN:Rematch at the time was specifically BECAUSE Riot didn't pick the highest end players to participate.

Also if you think the "peak of competitiveness" was displayed in a match where the players were forced to pick from a handful of champions, you're fucking stupid.

>It also highlighted how broken Shurelya's Reverie was with Udyr, which not many people knew before
Everyone knew this before that game. It was common knowledge because Sona released months beforehand and her spotlight specifically said to build it on her because her low cooldowns could keep it up.

You were apparently just completely out of the fucking loop or didn't even play back then.

>>383182650
Get the fuck off my board.

>>383181274
2016 worlds had 57 champions picked or banned across the whole tournament

TI6 had 110 heroes picked

If we take out heroes that had 3 or less games played just to filter for cheese/pocket picks, 99 for Dota, 40 for League.

You can argue overall game balance if you want but you can't really argue hero diversity, Dota blows League the fuck out of the water there.

Inb4 "muh new ban system", champion pick diversity really hasn't improved that much. If you use LCS statistics that's across several patches so of course you're gonna get different picks. Look up unique hero picks in competitive for one patch and cry

I like it but riot are shoving their way up our throat
most of the reworks are just tanks with dashes and some new gimmick
only one way to build them pretty much
its getting boring
man im gonna miss Urgot... went diamond 1 with him this season

>>383167862
I stoped being 15

>>383192509
what's so bad about having a set skill? I just consider it integral to the game. All of the others see play, that's why we have two slots. Mids run flash+ghost, ignite, cleanse, barrier. ad runs heal, cleanse. top runs tp, ignite. Junglers take ghost over flash a lot

>>383195807
So high ELO players were the best competitive players to you? That's the same as saying Challanger players today are good competitive players which is just completely wrong.

It doesn't matter if Ionia vs Noxus was a good showcase of great LoL play anyway, because the point is that people in general didn't optimize LoL back then. There was so much broken stuff to discover and so many strategies not yet thought of.

It's pretty much like saying Smash Bros Melee players knew what they were doing in 2006. Compare a game back then with the game today, and that game didn't even have any changes. It just takes a long fucking time for people to start realizing on how to play the game in an optimal way.

Shurelya's Reverie was one of the most often reworked items in LoL history even since the beta. You are right that people knew it was strong on Sona, but at that point not many people knew it was broken on Udyr.
Shurelya's made Sona good but not OP, but it made Udyr unkillable and uncatchable with infinite sustain as a jungler, which was very uncommon at the time. Only WW could ever match his sustain, but he needed blue buff to do so and lacked in all other departments.

The only point I wanted to make from the beginning is that LoL is better than it was back then, and people who think otherwise do so because they didn't take the game as serious as they do today. They had fun trying weird builds and discovering the game for themselves, but it was balanced way worse, was ugly as sin, even more buggy and lacked any direction. LoL was a dumbed down Dota but it managed to differentiate itself over the years. Anyone who wants to play Dota can do so, and anyone who wants a more streamlined and action oriented moba can play LoL.

As you are just spouting insults instead of making any real point im quitting the discussion here. Of course it is always easier to say "I knew it anyway" in hindsight, but stop lying to yourself. Have a day sir.

>>383198812
>So high ELO players were the best competitive players to you?
You said the Rematch was the "peak of competitiveness" when it wasn't anything of the sort, so you're immediately wrong regardless of what stupid examples you pull out of your ass.

>Shurelya's Reverie was one of the most often reworked items in LoL history even since the beta.
It wasn't even added until the Sona patch.

>You are right that people knew it was strong on Sona, but at that point not many people knew it was broken on Udyr.
Every Udyr built it because it was infinite sustain. This was well-known months before the showmatch took place.

>The only point I wanted to make from the beginning is that LoL is better than it was back then
And the point you're making is lost on the fact that you're completely ignorant of how the game played back then.

>As you are just spouting insults instead of making any real point im quitting the discussion here.
Probably a good idea, because you've done nothing but embarrass yourself with your complete obliviousness on how the game actually was, so you're utterly incapable of making an accurate comparison.

>Have a day sir.
No.

>>383199898
>I knew how League worked back then, when even the best players didn't know. I knew the meta of a game that began developing one that point in time. If I would play the game today I would surely be challanger.

>>383200560
>I knew how League worked back then, when even the best players didn't know.
Never said that. All I said is that people knew better and you clearly weren't one of them.

Stop trying to read between the lines and glean some bizarro-world explanations to support your stupidity.

>>383200707
But isn't that the point of everything? People knew better than you or me, but this doesn't disprove that people still hadn't fully developed the meta. If they had most of these complains about LoL (which are the point of this thread) would have applied back then aswell.

In the end us discussing this was pointless, because the important thing is how people experienced the game back then, I already described this in an earlier post. They complain because the game is now played in a more optimized way, with people being older and more tryhard than they were back then, not because the game got better or worse.

tournament-wise, LoL doesn't bother picking or banning a huge chunk of their entire champion pool
meanwhile, dotafags competing in the international picked or banned greater than 90% of the entire hero pool

>>383201437
>but this doesn't disprove that people still hadn't fully developed the meta.
The entire point that I'm arguing is that there was room for different "metas" to develop, because Riot hasn't artificially killed emergent gameplay.

>They complain because the game is now played in a more optimized way
Yes, but they're also complaining because whenever anything else becomes more optimal, Riot kills it instantly.

>>383181382
They won't touch lee because Reddit went fucking ballistic when they even implied they were going to make some minor changes to him.

>>383168075
>riot's microtransactions
>the way champions are unlocked- either pay real money now or grind forever to get a champion that's playable for now
>none of it even matters because you can just go Graves or Vayne top and win the game just like that
Granted you'll get a shit ton of teenagers to spend all their cash on it, but it's no DotA

It's bad, but better than Dota tbqh
>purple hammer head shark guy drops a ball void thing on me and auto attacks me to death and I can't do anything about it because I'm stunned for like 20 seconds
>can't even premtivly attack him because turn rates and cast times make my character fell like they're in molasses

>>383168748
Game is fun just don't go near hero league please. As someone playing since alpha with 2000 games in ranked alone for your own good if you want to retain the fun don't touch that shit.

If you feel like you want a challenge get some friends and play team league. MM in team league is pretty broken but it's still miles ahead of hero league

Ive recently uninstalled the game a mixture of hero league and overplaying has burned me out climbing from diamond to grandmaster is something I wouldn't wish upon anyone

>>383206430
I'll assume by context that hero league means the ranked system of this game, but what the hell is MM

>>383178245
deep sea makes me uncomfortable

>>383181382
>>383204568
A lot of the core problems in LoL is that they seem to lack anyone with common sense or foresight whenever they shit out a new champion.

Anyone with half a brain would've told the developers to fuck off and start over when concepts like Lee Sin, Riven, Renekton, etc. started being developed. Those three heroes are basically why the game isn't even in a state of mobility creep anymore, it's more like a mobility arms race.

>>383184331
It's dying slowly though bro. Even my silver surfing twitch watching friends have moved on from it. NA /vg/ is full of literal whos and EU /vg/ is dead.

>>383206332
>I'm bad at the game so I die
>this is somehow the game's fault

Who /veigar/ here

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>League of Legends is shit, but Overwatch
is a good game
why

>>383206687
matchmaking

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>>383167862
I used to be a fan of this SHIT game. I still don't know why. The straw that broke the camel's back for me though was Xayah and Shitstain, those fucking retards opened my eyes to the world around me.

League has some of the worst design out there. Even some of my favourite champions which i see as the least flawed, (Udyr, Volibear, Thresh) have the some of the same issues others have.
The biggest issue is mainly due to the laziness of Riot. They have a formula, they stick to it. First ability? Set up for second ability,
Second ability? Set up for third ability
Third ability? End of combo or set up for ultimate
Ultimate? Buff, disable, or something that sets up your other abilities.
The abilities are bland and serve to fill empty slots in champions kits, when they design a champion, they have one or two abilities in mind, then put in a bunch of SHIT to just make them "better". This is lazy, boring and reduces the game into a series of mini games for 20 minutes.

Not to mention the obvious "HIT 3 TIMES TO (BLANK)" Not only is overused and beaten like the creative minds at Riot. ITS BORING.

And the community makes this shit worse. I have a little connection to make, in Dota 2, the community is toxic and cunty. But it's not full of 12 year olds who love seeing flashing lights and high numbers. How many big Dota 2 youtubers do you know? I can name a few but these people just make clipshows. I'm talking "personalities" with these (what are usually) husks of people making content for the lowest standard of person for a low standard game, you're gonna get a bunch of low standard players. PERFECT FOR A LOW STANDARD COMPANY!

Fuck
this
"game"

To put it simply, its not FUN, its not INTERESTING, and there is no SOUL in this game ANYWHERE. This game exists just to make MONEY and nothing else.

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>>383206332

>>383174009
I used to play ADC TF pretty often. I was a total shitter at the game but it was really fun and occasionally it worked extremely well.

>>383167862
>3edgy5me

>>383211086
>I used to be a fan of this SHIT game. I still don't know why. The straw that broke the camel's back for me though was Xayah and Shitstain, those fucking retards opened my eyes to the world around me.

League has some of the worst design out there. Even some of my favourite champions which i see as the least flawed, (Udyr, Volibear, Thresh) have the some of the same issues others have.
The biggest issue is mainly due to the laziness of Riot. They have a formula, they stick to it. First ability? Set up for second ability,
Second ability? Set up for third ability
Third ability? End of combo or set up for ultimate
Ultimate? Buff, disable, or something that sets up your other abilities.
The abilities are bland and serve to fill empty slots in champions kits, when they design a champion, they have one or two abilities in mind, then put in a bunch of SHIT to just make them "better". This is lazy, boring and reduces the game into a series of mini games for 20 minutes.

Not to mention the obvious "HIT 3 TIMES TO (BLANK)" Not only is overused and beaten like the creative minds at Riot. ITS BORING.

And the community makes this shit worse. I have a little connection to make, in Dota 2, the community is toxic and cunty. But it's not full of 12 year olds who love seeing flashing lights and high numbers. How many big Dota 2 youtubers do you know? I can name a few but these people just make clipshows. I'm talking "personalities" with these (what are usually) husks of people making content for the lowest standard of person for a low standard game, you're gonna get a bunch of low standard players. PERFECT FOR A LOW STANDARD COMPANY!

Fuck
this
"game"

To put it simply, its not FUN, its not INTERESTING, and there is no SOUL in this game ANYWHERE. This game exists just to make MONEY and nothing else.
Good post

>>383167862
Every time I try to learn someone extra well to become a main they rework them once I've mastered them... seriously. Taric, Sion, Shen, Vlad, Warwick,now Urgot?!

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Not enough of the best characters

>>383175907
Zauns aesthetic is quickly becoming my favorite in the game

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38KB, 1061x806px

>>383177472
>>383177307
gold 1 is 90th percentile of ranked players, it's not that bad

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198KB, 579x534px

>>383167862
test

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34KB, 319x337px

>>383219879
test2

>>383176935
Almost all the top ladder people are there because spends a lot of houre per day to play the game, practically is their work (because it is)