This is literally what most of morrowind looks like

>>383117795
extremely atmospheric and immersive?

But it's weird and epic, immersive and atmospheric and, and .........weird

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>>383117795
This is what you see most of the time in Morrowind.

>>383117795
vvardenfell is only ~25% of morrowind

>>383117938
>>383118101
delusion

>>383117795
Morrowind is like a great novel, low iq idiots like you just see simple shapes and shades of grey, where as intellecuals can see an amazing world unfold before our eyes.

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>>383119067

>>383117795
Literally incorrect. That's only like 1/5th of the map.
Sub 100 hour N'wahs please go.

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>>383119567
Okay caveat: Only 1/5th of the map you can actually walk on. Most of it is impassable mountains.

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>>383119567

>>383119684
Nothing is impassable in Morrowind.

>>383119816
Yes but most of that is mountains you can't cross. Or, you can, but there's literally nothing there and you need levitate to do so.
>>383119925
Well technically impassable yes but you know, just empty.

That's another thing I like about Morrowind, the little stuff that seems unique to it. You can personally, manually use potions or your own personal magical capabilites for wizardly things you would imagine 'real' mages would actually do, simply for convenience.

>>383117938
>>383118101
>>383119067
There is absolutely nothing wrong with liking a game because of nostalgia and the memories you had of it years ago but holy shit just man up and admit that you like it because of the reasonable nostalgia. Don't become one of those autists shouting "HURR IT'S A MASTERPIECE IT'S BETTER THAN NEW GAMES" because no, from an outside opinion it has not kept up with modern games and later elder scrolls games do everything better. There's no reason for people that have never played an elder scrolls game before to pick up morrowind or oblivion and they don't.

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>>383117938
FPBP

Morrowind oozes atmosphere like no other game.

>>383119816
>Big area east of Urshilaku
>The part linking Balmora Caldera Ald Rhun
>Nearly half of what your circled
>impassable and nothing to do
Nigga, you never played the game and it shows.

Morrowind has the most diverse environment of modern ES, the most diverse dungeon type and the best open world of the whole serie.

>>383118115
You can literally see a cliff racer in OP's image, redundant-kun.

>>383120830
>do everything better.
Any game that is built around quest markers is objectively worse, strictly speaking as an open world game, than Morrowind.

>>383120830
>it has not kept up with modern games and later elder scrolls games do everything better.
Not any of the people you are replying to but NO. They don't. They have fancier graphics and more satisfying combat, few small minor improvements like Skyrim's multiple casting options, but on the whole, they mostly do most of the things a lot worse than Morrowind did.

From fundamental mechanical stuff like U.I. (seriously, Morrowind was the last time a Bethesda game had a decent U.I., what Oblivion and Skyrim featured is absolute shit in comparison) past actual complexity of RPG mechanics (non-broken and functional elements being consistently removed without anything of equal value being added, the actual character build being consistently made less and less relevant for actual playthrough and player options) to writing and world-building and art direction, which as far as I'm concerned, in games that are ALL about exploring a large open world are absolutely the most important element of it.

The worlds, main storylines, writing, basic elements of interaction and elements vital to immersion, have gotten progressively worse through the series. Oblivion and Skyrim are sandbox games with rudimentary RPG elements set in insanely generic settings, reliant on terribly-written, awfully voiced dialogues telling you trite shit while your character build does not matter save for different flavors of combat, and actual exploration is replaced by following a marker.

TES series did not get better over time. Morrowind was the absolute peak by an insane margin. And that is very much a fact.

>>383121339
>, reliant on terribly-written, awfully voiced dialogues telling you trite shit
99% of "dialogues" in morrowind is literally just clicking through a wiki, there is no personality to any of the characters except for the ALMSIVI and Dagoth Ur

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>>383120830
I never played Morrowind before a year ago. My first TES game was Skyrim. I think Morrowind is the best of the 3, and Skyrim is slightly better than Oblivion.

You are lying to yourself if you think people only like Morrowind because muh rose-tinted glasses.

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>>383121993
Though, I would be lying if I said I did not mod the game quite significantly; though my first playthrough, about 50 hours long, was almost totally vanilla except for increased view distance, field of view, resolution, and a UI mod.

>>383121775
You are acting as if there was any personality to the characters in fucking Skyrim and Oblivion. The dialogue system is better: better suited to the actual game design. It's more abstractive, but more efficient. It's also wrong that there is no personality, a LOT of characters have their own unique dialogue sets with their completely unique set of keywords and replies.

The fact that the game does not literally spell out every single sentence of what the character is saying does not mean there is no personality to it. Fuck me: characters like all of the members of the Dren family, Caius Cosades, Lord Fyr, various members of the nomad families, that librarian chick from Ministry of Truth, all those have more character than anything that Oblivion or Morrowind featured. Mostly because they are actually more interesting, their role in the story is more interesting, they aren't spoiled by terribly written and terribly delivered lines of dialogue.

If you need to have the dialogue spoon-fed line-for-line and every character traint explicitly verbalized, that is your problem. It makes you brain-dead.

There are other ways to deliver dialogue than direct speech. You should look that idea up some time.

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>>383121775
Stop critiquing a game you clearly haven't played.
Divayth Fyr, Yagrum Bagarn, Caius Cosades, and many other characters prove you wrong.

I always had a soft spot for Daggerfall, I admit it looks like ass and questing/dealing with NPCs can be a pain but the scope, character customisation and dungeon crawling are stellar

>people modding Morrowind's graphics
It's like trying to make a model out of a 70 year old. I like my granny the way she is

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>>383122318
I actually have played it a good bit, I think like 30 hours of just dungeon-running and wandering. If I learned how to properly navigate it's dungeons I would actually do a proper playthrough.

I really enjoy getting weapons and armor and selling loot, buying a house and ship and putting my money in a bank. It just has a really rewarding feeling to the grind.

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When did you realize that Gothic 2 is superior?

>>383122875
thic

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>>383122875

>>383123374
KEK

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>>383122875
Who would win?

>>383124075
Gotog doesn't even have a sword. Cihthic has two! And he's badass enough to fight two dragons! Two!

>>383122875
Boring game

>>383124265
Gotog doesn't NEED a sword! And his dragons are already slain

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aa

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>>383124380
>hurr durr

>>383118101
Morrowind's world isn't even that weird, once you go deeper than surface aesthetics. It's society is a familiar blend of semi-feudal clan politics, theocracy, nationalism and slave labor.

>>383117795
>that thumbnail
Giant woman *Braaaaaaaps* in the distance

>>383119456
That's a nice hat. I wish I could wear fedoras without looking like a pompous jackass.

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>>383119067
>Morrowind is like a great novel

>>383117795
And that's a bad thing?

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>>383117795
yep, and if it wasn't for the annoying wildlife and shit sound design I would love it
thankfully I have modded those problems out

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>>383124551
>implying

>>383124719
But it has giant mushrooms, bugs and bug armours so it's totally different from all that generic normie casual tolkien trash

>>383126584
>0 fatigue

>>383117795
>This is literally what most of morrowind looks like
i know. isn't it awesome?

>>383121775
Mate...PLENTY of characters in Morrowind had unique, multifaceted, interactions.

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>Morrowfags will never get another good elder scroll game

>>383127021
yeah I still haven't found a mod to make the fatigue system make sense without giving the game oblivion tier movement

>>383127264
Only if you bothered to read wikipedia that is literally the dialog.

>>383127409
>Only if you bothered to read wikipedia that is literally the dialog.
Which is fine? What the fuck is actually wrong with this? You do realize that there is multiple different ways to do dialogue, right? That direct transcription of the dialogue is only ONE of the possible ways to approach dialogue?
What the fuck is wrong with you people?

Wheres the remove all cliffracers mod? I have tried several bdut none of them work

>>383117795
Now.

>>383127792
>That direct transcription of the dialogue
Not him, but what are you even talking about? Transcription literally means writing shit down. All dialogue in TES games is shown to the player in written form. It's just that dialogue is Morrowind is delivered with a jerky flow of honestly too much text and in the form of encyclopedia bookmarks. What does transcription have to do with this? If anything, it should be argued that the later games take a more laconic approach and therefore have les "direct transcription".

>>383127253
Yes the idea of the vast amount of dungmer currently buried under all that ash pleases my inner Pelinal.

>>383128827
>Transcription literally means writing shit down.
Transcription means writing down literally the words as they are spoken you idiot. Which is not what Morrowind does in majority of the cases. Just like games like in many classic RPG's like Ultima series or Might and Magic.

With a few exceptions, where the dialogue is directly transcribed (those the ones where you can chose your own reply rather than just picking a subject), they give you a stylized SUMMARY of what you learned about the subject.

And if you have not figured this out: if you haven't figured out that the dialogue is not LITERALLY player shouting out one word and the character giving a page-long monologue in reply, but rather that the text you see is a stylized summary of the things you learn from an actual dialogue that does not happen on the screen, you are AN ABSOLUTE, COMPLETE, DROOLING FUCKING RETARD. And this is a serious problem. This is equal to not fucking understanding what indirect fucking speech is in literature.

Also, don't fucking try to lecture people on what "transcription" means if you literally do not know what that word means. It does not mean "writing". It means "writing a down spoken word literally exactly as the words were spoken out".

>>383129112
>And if you have not figured this out: if you haven't figured out that the dialogue is not LITERALLY player shouting out one word and the character giving a page-long monologue in reply
proof?

>>383118115
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FYG0YWdkSKI

>>383129235
What the FUCK?
What is the proof of fucking indirect speech not being direct speech?
Are you braindamaged? What the fucking fuck is wrong with you?
It's a fucking fact. It's NOT A FUCKING DIALOGUE. Do you know what a dialogue means? If you do, then you should have your fucking proof you god-damn retard.

>>383119067
thus

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Deus Ex is a better and more influential immersive sim than Morrowind

>>383129830
Yes, and Il-2 Sturmovik is better and more influencial realistic WW2 plane simulator than Starlancer was.
Your point?

>>383120830
>later elder scrolls games do everything better.
nah
skyrim looks better but you are so wrong, the whole appeal of Morrowind is the sheer amount of shit you can do with your characters and the lore

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>>383117795
Morrowind was already dated as fuck when it came out

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>>383117795

>>383129112
>>383129589
>Transcription means writing down literally the words as they are spoken
I know that and maybe should've specified in my post, but I still don't really see how it's relevant. Nothing in the games is really said and nothing is transcribed from speech, because those are just fictional characters. All the dialogue is written beforehand and performed by actors.

Your point is that the replies the player may choose during a conversation are a sort of suggestion of what the player character said. They are not a replacement for a transcription of the character's exact words, because there are no words, because that character doesn't exist and the words weren't written. It's up to the player to imagine exactly what the character is saying and how they're saying it.

That is not why the dialogue system is bad though. Oblivion does the same thing - the difference between their systems is that Oblivion's NPC don't offer you a barrage of text in wiki format. Despite the stiff deliveries from the voice actors, they generally give you the most important information you'd need in a shorter, more user-friendly and most often simply more natural way.

I honestly have no clue where you got this idea that the NPC's dialogue in Morrowindi isn't actual dialogue. That's not even suggested in the game. The few instances where they don't tell you exact, detailed information, they say they'll mark a place on your map or tell you to read a book. The books themselves can be argued to basically boil down the contents to what's readable to the player, but there's no hint of that happening in the dialogue itself.

>Are you braindamaged? What the fucking fuck is wrong with you?
Rude.

>there will be no more good elder scrolls games
>there will be no more good gothic games

truly the worst timeline

>>383130281
There never was a good Gothic game.

God it's such an eyesore

>>383130360
Gothic 4.

>>383130232
>I know that and maybe should've specified in my post, but I still don't really see how it's relevant. Nothing in the games is really said and nothing is transcribed from speech, because those are just fictional characters. All the dialogue is written beforehand and performed by actors.
I honestly don't know where to even begin with this shit. Seriously: I've run out of ways to express my utter, complete AWE in the face of how dumb you are. There is no excuse for this shit. Unless you are clinically retarded, there is absolutely no fucking excuse for you to be this fucking dumb, this fucking clueless about most basic fucking principles of fucking literature, fiction, basic writing theory.
God dammit.

OK: let's start from the begging, shall we?
Can you actually understand the difference between direct and indirect speech. I really need to know what the fuck am I dealing with here.

Have you ever heard those two terms? Direct speech, and indirect speech?
Can you please explain for me what the difference between the two are?

Because if you don't understand even that, we can't actually move anywhere forward.

>>383130360
Gothic 3 Forsaken gods

>>383130360
Gothic: Firemages of the Old Khorinis

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>>383130490
I sincerely hope you're trolling and aren't actually an unhealthily defensive fanboy.

Pic related is the dialogue box from Morrowind. You can see the dialogue prompts, which as we already established suggest to the player what their character says. On the other hand, the game gives you straight up full quotes from the NPCs talking in first person. There is no narrator or anything else in there. There is no hint of indirect speech.

>>383131063
Ever heard of this idea of stylization, retard?
Seriously: Answer the previous post. We can get somewhere from there. Until that point, this discussion is pointless, because you are incapable of most basic literally fucking understanding.

>>383117938
grey and boring

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>>383131226
How about you try to explain how you think indirect speech and stylization (which has fuck all to do with anything at this point) are used to make it so that Morrowind's dialogue is not dialogue?

>>383126913
>But it has giant mushrooms
That's one of the oldest fantasy tropes out there.

I honestly don't know if one or both are retarded or merely pretending.
If either of you are taking this seriously you have failed at life.

>>383117795
I know exactly what area that is, it's somewhat south of aldruhn, and there's a vampire den nearby

>>383131226
Are you retarded? Are you literally arguing that >>383131063 pic is indirect speech?

If it was indirect speech and it was transcribe it would go something like this:

>Captain, I was told to refer to, told me that my arrival was messy. As I gave him the identification paper he told me that his name is Sellus Gravius. He seemed like iin a hurry and wanted to just finish his buisness, he is uninterested in chitchat.

Etc...

I mean he literally says """" I """" and " AM " and refers you your character as " you " in that text.
Are you saying that is not direct speech?

>>383131702
You see: I asked you (several times) to actually explain to me what you think certain words mean. Starting with dialogue, and continuing with indirect speech. Those questions were not actually fucking rethorical you god damn cretin. The fact that you avoided answering them is why this dialogue is still going nowhere.
So let me be blunt here: YOU ARE AN IDIOT, AND THOSE TERMS DON'T MEAN WHAT YOU THINK THEY MEAN. So we need to start fixing out your absolutely fucking wrong understanding of basic problems.

Go back to the start. What do YOU think "Dialogue" means?
What do YOU think direct and non-direct speech pattern represent? Let me give you a hint: it's not what you thought so far. Think a little fucking more carefully this time.

>>383133020
I've got it. Their definitions are whatever they need to be so you win the argument and so your precious game doesn't have a flaw.

>>383133725
No, those terms are defined by the fields of general linguistics, literary theory, narratology and philosophy of language and dialogue. Which unlike you, I actually looked into. But great job ONCE AGAIN dodging my requests because you are a cowardly cunt and you'd rather make up excuses why you are totally not wrong than actually manning up and facing actual fucking discussion, you cowardly fucking cunt.

>>383134049
So what you're saying is by definition Morrowind dialogue is poorly designed, and great linguists, lliterators, narrators and philosophers all agree on this fact so we shouldn't bother them about it?

I loved morrowind. The combat can be frustrating when compared to modern shit but I'd take text based dialogue over voiced.
Imagination just kinda let's you dictate the mood of your words and other or even what you might sound like.
Unless you're just too impatient for that shit. Which is understandable considering everyone here is a fucking mongoloid.

>>383134241
This is beyond pathetic. Just fuck off. Admit that you aren't capable of most basic discussion and fuck off. Nobody fucking cares for this kind of shitposting.

>>383134312
I'm not seriously arguing with you because I've realized you're just a child who will desperately defend his game against criticism by redefining terms.

Because that isn't indirect dialogue. And even if it were, it wouldn't change that it sucks. (But it isn't).

>>383134312
I like this kind of shitposter.

He's harvesting some tasty (you)s.

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>>383127409
>Only if you bothered to read

>>383134392
>Because that isn't indirect dialogue.
You see, it's either "indirect speech" or "dialogue". There is no such thing as "indirect dialogue".
And this is kinda illustrative. YOU ARE COMPLETELY FUCKING ILLITERATE. In the most literary sense of that fucking phrase. But sure, pile up even more shitty pathetic excuses why you don't have to ever wonder if you aren't wrong about something. I'm totally just a child, because I insist that people actually UNDERSTAND THE FUCKING WORDS THEY ARE FUCKING USING.
How the FUCK do you even fucking have the fucking arrogance to fucking talk about this subject if you don't fucking know what indirect speech or dialogue is?! How can you go dimissing other people, attempting to lecture people when you don't know even most BASIC meaning of the words "dialogue" and "direct/indirect/reported speech". Enough to mix them into fucking one?
How do you justify this shit to yourself?! How do you go on fucking thinking that you are winning this argument after this shit?

This isn't about Morrowind by the way. This is actually BASIC literary knowledge you should have gained in elementary school.

You are an idiot: you do not meet the criteria generally expected from a 13 years old at this point. So next time SHUT THE FUCK UP, and just listen when people who know what the fuck they are talking about talk. Your opinion on this subject is trash, because you literally do not have even the most rudimentary understanding of the problem. It's like a six years old sharing his views on improving internal combustion engine with a fucking engineer, except not endearing anymore because you are already supposed to be an adult.

>>383134282
>text based dialogue
The one thing I love about it is that NPCs call you by name when their dialogue isn't voiced.
When an NPC goes from calling you "outlander" to calling you by your name -- that feels good.

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>>383121993

>>383134807
Okay, why don't you write an essay to your marxist literature professor about why Morrowind dialogue is good?

I'm sure he'll give you an A. This will have no bearing on reality though and only on how impressed he is in your ability to bend it.

>>383131063
That's a named NPC in the first area of the game and relevant to the main quest.
It's obvious that most random, unimportant NPCs with stock dialogue aren't meant to be taken literally.

>>383117795
Thumbnail made me think somebody modded a butt structure into Pathologic.

>>383133020
Take your fucking pills you autist.
>Waaah explain me every word in your argument or else you're wrong
You're the one having comprehension problems you mongoloid.

>>383134807
Holy fuck, the salt.

if you play Morrowind in 2017, its because you don't have a dungeons & dragons group to play with.

>>383134807
This is beyond pathetic at this point.

>>383135226
That's why I'm playing Baldur's Gate. I play Morrowind because I don't have a UESRPG group.

>>383135029
>Okay, why don't you write an essay to your marxist literature professor about why Morrowind dialogue is good?
Can you get any more pathetic? Is there any level you are unwilling to stoop down to in self-humiliation just to avoid admiting that you fucked up when you started sharing your opinions about something you don't understand.

"Marxism", yeah, that is fucking relevant here. Build an entire argument on how being educated is actually bad because you've heard some schools teach Marxism. Great job! That will totally look like a dignified response and not DESPERATE grasping for straws.

Look you fucker. It's actually pretty fucking simple: Knowing what you are talking about: GOOD.
Not knowing what you are talking about: BAD.

It's not difficult and no matter how fucking desperately you try to weasel out of it: being an idiot is bad.

>>383135161
>You're the one having comprehension problems you mongoloid.
Let's add the word "comprehension" to the list of terms you mongolids don't understand.

>>383135226
If I play Morrowind in 2017 at least the NPCs won't argue amongst each other over who is ruining the roleplay and who's metagaming and who should have veto rights over everyone's move choices in combat. Besides Vivec.

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>>383135226
I've always wanted to play DnD, but I've never known anyone who played it. And now I don't have any friends.

>>383135347
Got it. I just looked up the definitions, here's what I got

"Indirect dialogue": I win, Morrowind has the best dialogue ever and my professor agrees.
"Direct dialogue": Definitely not what Morrowind has because otherwise it would suck but it doesn't. It's stylistic, you see.

>>383135347
You're projecting at this point.
You just wanted to get angry at anything, and still picked the wrong horse.
You could have waited and shitposted in any of the multiple wrong statements in /v/ on a daily basis.
But you still fucked up.
That was not indirect speech, and you are patethic at this point.

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>mfw an rpg expects me to read of all things

>>383134807
>https://www.writingclasses.com/toolbox/ask-writer/what-is-indirect-dialogue

Your first sentence is calling this guy illiterate

>>383120034
>Well technically impassable yes but you know, just empty.
What? No. Nothing is impassable in Morrowind.

>>383124719
And then you go deeper still and start looking into the religion and mythology and it get's fucking weird again.

>>383135853
>See that mountain? You can climb it.

>>383135853
Maybe not, but there are clear areas you are "supposed" to go and areas where you aren't but technically can and you'll find nothing there.

The same happens in any open world game. The most recent example is BoTW where you can technically go anywhere but if you really want to explore every cliff you'll just find a bunch of filler plateaus with either two wolves, two guardians or two wizzrobes.

>>383135859
>literally had an LOL IM SO RANDUM & EBIL god >:3

>>383135859
Hinduism isn't weird anon.
It is not common that much is true.

>>383135796
No, it's still you who is illiterate.
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?search=indirect+dialogue&title=Special:Search&go=Go&searchToken=33m6cauohinatwks2ptpfde1c
Notice the "there are no entries on indirect dialogue".

That is because indirect dialogue is not a technical term. Indirect dialogue is a laymen term shortening "dialogue that is written in indirect speech".

And that is the sense in which that guy is using it, assuming that people actually know what the words "dialogue" and "indirect speech" actually mean.
And we are not talking about dialogue here, actually. That was one of my main points. Going all the way here:
>>383131063
That is a not a dialogue. It's something we call "dialogue window" out of sheer habit, but what it displays is not a dialogue at any point. There are no dialogues on display there. You see: I know this is all part of the list of most rudimentary shit that little children know but you somehow missed, but the "di" in "dialogue" actually means "two" and refers to the fact that dialogue actually captures the communication between two agents.
That there is we call a "monologue" (notice the word is somewhat similar, both ending with "logos" which means "word" or "speech" - and a bunch of other things that would blow your mind and confuse the fuck out of you). It has a different first half: "mono" which means "one" or "alone". And it refers to utterances made by just one speaker (look up the word utterance if it confuses you too).

Understanding this (how what that screenshot displays is just one person talking, not two people talking to each other) is just the first step of many we would have to take to understand why you are all wrong, but I suppose that journey is FAR too difficult for you fucks to manage. Because for starters, you'd have to realize the possibility that you might have not known something, or be wrong about something, and that is clearly impossible for you pieces of shit.

>>383134807

Damn. If this salty rant were more general it would make great pasta.

>>383136619
Actually, Morrowind has very little of Hinduism. Most of it's lore is heavily based on Gnostic mysticism, which I will grant you is VAGUELLY related to certain Indian philosophical undercurrents, though apparently it's actually more just a weird mystical interpretation of Platonism mixing with old Christianity than anything else.

And with that in mind: Gnosticism IS fucking weird. Which does make the lore of TES pretty damn weird too.

>>383128214
I use Cliff Racer Exterminator.

>>383136619
>it's not weird, it's just strange and unfamiliar

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>If it isnt in wikipedia it doesnt exist!
http://www.sjsu.edu/writingcenter/handouts/Direct%20and%20Indirect%20Dialogue.pdf
Reaching maximum delusion levels

Light, Medium or Heavy armor?

>>383136775
I'm going to use this as copypasta. Just change a few keywords like "marxism" and "education". Otherwise it's pretty generic salt rant
>Can you get any more pathetic? Is there any level you are unwilling to stoop down to in self-humiliation just to avoid admiting that you fucked up when you started sharing your opinions about something you don't understand.

>"Artificial fun", yeah, that is fucking relevant here. Build an entire argument on how being fun is actually bad because you've heard some games have "artificial fun". Great job! That will totally look like a dignified response and not DESPERATE grasping for straws.

>Look you fucker. It's actually pretty fucking simple: Knowing what you are talking about: GOOD.
Not knowing what you are talking about: BAD.

>It's not difficult and no matter how fucking desperately you try to weasel out of it: being an idiot is bad.

>>383136694
Do you get this mad every thread or is this just a particular area of autism for you that you can't let go being wrong on?

>>383137065
Medium just for the sweet sweet Ordinator gear

>>383136860
Remind me again of who has reality be the product of a sleeping God who when he awakens destroys the current Kalpa.

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>>383136694
>IM here to welcome YOU to morrowind
> Monologue
I'm fucking dying

>>383137247
Do you always post "U mad" when you are completely out of actual proper replies or is it just today that you decided to revert back to your playing Halo-3-on-Xbox-live-back-when-you-were-9 attitude?

>>383137373
>Remind me again of who has reality be the product of a sleeping God who when he awakens destroys the current Kalpa.
I'm honestly a bit confused by that sentence.

>>383137373
Or which one has the universe being made from the body of someone who came out of the void.

>>383122875
Stop ruining Gothic 2 by shitposting it all the time and turning it into a meme game. It's a good game, it doesn't deserve this shit.

>>383136694
>Because for starters, you'd have to realize the possibility that you might have not known something, or be wrong about something, and that is clearly impossible for you pieces of shit.
The irony

>>383136694
>Indirect dialogue is a laymen term shortening "dialogue that is written in indirect speech".
>>383136694
>That is a not a dialogue. It's something we call "dialogue window" out of sheer habit, but what it displays is not a dialogue at any point.
Well, yeah. Why are you so goddamn autistic?

>>383137554
How about which one has stars be holes that are poked through reality to a realm beyond.
or
Spaceships

>>383136619
Transubstantiation is fucking weird, mate. Being raised Catholic doesn't change that.

>>383137486
>I'm fucking dying
I wish you were.
Hamlets famous skull monologue:
Let me see. (takes the skull) Alas, poor Yorick! I knew him, Horatio, a fellow of infinite jest, of most excellent fancy. He hath borne me on his back a thousand times, and now, how abhorred in my imagination it is! My gorge rises at it. Here hung those lips that I have kissed I know not how oft. —Where be your gibes now? Your gambols? Your songs? Your flashes of merriment that were wont to set the table on a roar? Not one now to mock your own grinning? Quite chapfallen? Now get you to my lady’s chamber and tell her, let her paint an inch thick, to this favor she must come. Make her laugh at that.—Prithee, Horatio, tell me one thing.

Notice the final lines?
Yeah. It does not matter who is he addressing. Monologue is a monologue because it captures the speech of only one character. Actually, a monologue can be a part of a dialogue too: monologue is defined by context, by delimination.

If there isn't representation of some sorts of utterances of multiple parties, then it's not a dialogue.

And this is just continuation of the same. How have you not figured this shit out yet: YOU ARE USING WORDS YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND. That is why you are wrong.
You just keep on piling proof after proof that you don't know what the word "dialogue" and "monologue" means. The fuck do you think you are going to achieve here?

>>383137062
>San José State University Writing Center
Are you fucking kidding me? SAN FUCKING JOSÉ?

Look, maybe this kind of shit would fly in a school for illiterates that you happened to chance upon in your haphazard Google search - but it doesn't with me. You're talking about a place that DOESN'T EVEN RANK IN THE TOP 100 INSTITUTIONS IN THE WORLD. Get that through your fucking head. HUNDREDS of places would be better for your education than that pathetic no-name nowhere piece of shit. Do you honestly believe my alma mater is anywhere close to being that low on the intellectual food chain?

Repeat after me: one. Fucking. Layman. Using. The. Term. Doesn't. Make. It. Formal. In. Any. Sense. Of. The. Fucking. Word. Or do you need to look up "formal" and "layman" too?

Leave this thread. Go post somewhere else about how your "Marxism" is destroying everything and how you wish Trump would save America with his smart words. You're pathetic, and you lost this argument. I hope you realize that one day.

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>>383117795
This is literally what the capital city of a country looks like.

>>383120830
t. reddit

This game is so fucking boring to me. Do I have to have nostalgia to get into this game? I really want to enjoy this game.

>>383137771
Wouldn't know.
I am Sikh.

>>383137731
>Well, yeah. Why are you so goddamn autistic?
Add "autistic" to the list of words you don't understand.

The point is that what Morrowind presents you with is not actually dialogue. It's stylized monologue at absolute best, and given that this stylized monologue represents the content of an actual dialogue that took place diegetically (presuming that communication in the world of Elder Scrolls works the same as in our world, give-or-take), that actually proves that it's not a direct speech either: just an indirect report of a speech written in a stylized manner roughly mimicking direct speech to make it an easier read and make the occasional transitions to direct speech (which occasionally happen in quest-important decision points) less jarring.

Thus proving my original point: that Morrowind is not "direct transcription of an awkward dialogues" but rather a system that avoids direct representation of dialogue entirely by replacing them with indirect stylized reports.

But honestly, I don't really give a fuck about the original point. It's the insane arrogance and mindboggling stupidity of you pieces of shit that really worries me.
Who fucked up this bad that people like you are apparently a common-sight today?

>>383137960
You have to enjoy old style RPGs

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>>383137968
Get well soon

>>383137960
You may have missed the window anon.
It all depends on how forgiving you are of antiquated gameplay.

>>383137968
It's the belief that the Eucharist (the wine and unleavened bread served during communion on Sunday Mass) is literally transformed into the actual body and blood of Christ despite retaining their original appearance. It's official Catholic dogma.

>>383138131
Actually laughed.
Well done anon.

>>383137825
You're wrong. Go back and reread Barthes, Adorno, and Brecht.

t. Columbia University writing faculty

>>383138072
No it doesn't. It presents you with a few lines you can prompt for dialogue and then the NPC speaks directly to you in their own words, only in a massive fucking wall of text while you sit there listening because it's poorly designed.

They address you and themselves directly, because it is direct dialogue. It's not a mystical roleplaying wikipedia article where you pretend you were having a real conversation, it's just a wooden NPC that spouts out words of text because when Bethesda tries to write true dialogue you get stuff like
>[Speech] Really?

>>383120830
You are a simple creature, incapable of evaluating an experience on its own merits.

If modern games "spoil" older games for you, it means you lack the ability to partition your perception pragmatically.

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>>383137685
>Stop ruining Gothic 2 by shitposting it all the time and turning it into a meme game. It's a good game, it doesn't deserve this shit.
It's a shit game if it can be ruined by shitposting.

>>383138383
That is some bad writing, holy shit.

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>>383137857
This too, is the capital city of a country, except it's fully rendered

>>383138181
Dunno if you are interested in that shit but given the mini topic of East and West theology:
The third book in Yukio Mishima's Sea of Fertility series, The Temple of Dawn, has about 50 pages devoted to substantiation and disfigurement of experience via Buddhism, Shintoism, Hinduism, Greek Platonic, and Vico.

>>383121339
>more satisfying combat
This is why I still like morrowind. I didnt care for the combat then and I certainly dont fucking care for it now. If anything its worse now. I was ok with dicerolls.

Percy Parkinson Partitioned his Perception Pragmatically to Prepare for Parley with Pretty Patricia

>>383138318
>lack the ability to partition your perception pragmatically.
You mean delude yourself?

>>383119684

>walking

Why walk, WHEN YOU CAN RIDE?

>>383138318
>>383138595
You're both retards. You shouldn't lower your standards just because it's an old game. On the other hand, even when you treat Morrowind just like any modern game it's still very good.

>>383117795
I was 13. I explored every inch of that weird wasteland, and I fucking loved it.

>>383135853
what a retard

>>383137373
Gnosticism is pretty close to that.
>>383137554
Norse Gods lol.

>>383138761
You were a dumb thirteen year old.
Then again I did the same thing with fucking Zelda.

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>>383138424
You try creating a literary masterpiece after escaping a whole colony of cliff racers

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>>383137373
>who when he awakens destroys the current Kalpa.
when the godhead awakens the entire world ends, not just the kalpa
the kalpa ends when mundus is destroyed

I'm also fairly certain the demiurge isn't sleeping. besides the demiurge character of TES is LORKHAN

>>383139085
Demiurge isn't sleeping, but WE are. And we are kinda God (the real one).

>>383130281
But the greatest Elder Scrolls game still gets new content.

>>383138547
I don't remember those small buildings in the northernmost part. Are you sure that isn't modded?

>>383138317
No. And we are back the beggining of the conversation: you have not even for a second considered or questioned what you thought you know, you have not actually read or understood a single one of my points: when you run out of arguments, you go back to the begining, say the same shit, and actually think this is how you "win".

>then the NPC speaks directly to you in their own words, only in a massive fucking wall of text while you sit there listening because it's poorly designed.
Or maybe they don't. Because if you so much as CONSIDERED that the wall of text is there because it's not their own words (which would also explain why you get the EXACT SAME ELOQUENT ANSWER from entirely different people).

You see: we are here and you are basically telling me:
"It's poorly designed because this is not how people talk and it's weird and if this is supposed to represent their own words verbatim (look the word up if) then it feels completely off."
And then I go: "Maybe it's off because you are understanding it wrong: it's not supposed to represent their own words, just a summary of those. And if you understand that, the rest of the system starts making sense."
And then you go screeching that "NO, MY UNDERSTANDING IS BETTER BECAUSE IT MAKES LESS SENSE AND THERFOR I WIN" Or some utter insane bullshit like that.

It's not. It's not representation of their own words. It's a summary of what they said, stylistically written as something roughly approximating spoken words, but only roughly. And that roughness actually increases and decreases with specificity (look it up) of the particular entry: the one you displayed in that screen shot, for an example, is a very specific dialogue used really by only one or two characters, therefor it's most stylized to look like real spoken language. While say, asking for direction in a larger city will give you much more somber, clearly summary-like answer.
But I guess those nuances are lost on somebody like you.

>>383138761
that's why you ended up on 4chan

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>>383138072
>Add "autistic" to the list of words you don't understand.
Obviously I didn't mean it in a literal sense. Autists often have hard time with colloquial phrases. Are you actually autistic?

>>383139386
Yeah, why don't we ask Todd what he intended instead of making a death of the author argument that would impress your marxist professor but not anyone else. It's direct dialogue. It's exactly what they said. What's a representation is the single nouns that you present to them to extract that dialogue.

Stop making up nonsense.

>>383139386
So what you're saying is your understanding is correct because it makes Morrowind look the best and any other understanding is wrong because then Morrowind would be flawed. Gotcha.

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>>383138704
>lower your standards
It's not a girlfriend you fucking moron. It's a piece of media which:

a) doesn't care about your "standards", much like everybody else on the planet, and

b) was published at a particular time and context and isn't participating in a race with every other game ever made or ever to be made

If "your standards" is something that prevents you from enjoying a game on its own merits, then since you can be assured that future games are guaranteed to exceed anything published today, why wait to raise them? It should be impossible for you to like anything.

But seriously fucking lol at the idea that you posess a personal standard which video games have to live up to. Holy shit that's a retarded belief spawned from some kinda ass backwards console wars mentality.

>>383139510
Probably just isn't used to seeing it used that way because he normally posts on non-imageboard forums where people would take offense to "autism" being thrown around non-literally. Which is why he screeches every third word in all caps, normally he would be bolding them.

>>383138547
that is so cool

>spent 5 hours watching the autistic oblivion retrospective

I have a new appreciation for Skyrim now.

>>383139780
Who cares who cares about my standards? They're mine.
And, my friend, it IS participating in such a race. Everything is compared to everything else.

I don't know what you think standards are. If you enjoy every game on its own merits, you are subjecting them to the same standard. You get that, right?
>future games are guaranteed to exceed anything published today
lol

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>>383119567

>>383120830
>later games do everything better
>skyrim doesn't have half the shit Morrowind did, like spellmaking, a durability system, and actual attribute scores

Do your parent's know you're on this website?

>there will never be a morrowind / gothic 2 crossover game

>>383139870
give me a quick rundown. I'm not wasting 5 hours watching a video of someone's opinions.

>>383140037
My parent's what?

My parent's daughters don't know, but my parent's sons do.

>>383140237
gay

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>>383139386
>It's not representation of their own words.
You will actually have to provide some proof for this claim. How would you even go about doing it?

>>383140236
The "official explanation" of Talostrice is a complete fabrication, the true answer to the mystery is Anduintrice. Talostrice is for the 999 out of 1000 who would get the mystery wrong.

>>383139510
>Autists often have hard time with colloquial phrases.
Add colloquial phrases to the list of the words you don't know the meaning off.

>>383139582
>Yeah, why don't we ask Todd what he intended instead of making a death of the author argument
Add Death of the Author too. Jesus FUCKING CHRIST what the fuck is wrong with you?! Is your speech entirely composed of random phrases you just picked up on the internet but never actually looked or asked about their meaning? What the fuck?
What is going on in your fucking head?
"Somebody is talking about literature. Better say the words "death of the author" randomly because that is what people say when literature is a subject of conversation!"
What the fuck? Did you people even go to school?
Also: It's not a dialogue.
It's not direct speech either.
Facts.

It does not represent things said by multiple agents. I understand now that I HUGELY overestimated your capacity with my previous post on this subject, so let's make it completely clear:
>Dialogue:
Person A says X
Person B says Y

>Monologue:
Person A says X.
That is it.

It's that simple. Do you see anywhere in that wall of text any representation of what the character said? In the actual text that you claim to be "direct dialogue" do you see ANY actual words that are spoken by the PC character?
No?
Then it's NOT A DIALOGUE.

Yet it clearly represents some kind of EXCHANGE that happend between the two. In that case, it does not represent the exchange directly. A direct representation would have to include BOTH PARTIES AND THEIR STATEMENTS. Otherwise it's a reference to a dialogue. Refered, or indirect speech.

End. Of. FUCKING. DISCUSSION.

>>383127349
neither will you

>>383139582
It's not really his fault if people who don't know anything about a subject aren't impressed by one of its finer details.

>>383140375
If you were intelligent you could figure it out.

You're imposing your own retarded interpretation onto Morrowind's dialogue system because it makes you feel better, when we all know that wasn't what was really intended, and if we asked the authors directly, they would tell us such. That's 10% of your incoherent rant content. The other 90% is autistically screeching because someone vomitting words of text at you without you being able to get a word could more precisely be called monologue rather than dialogue, even though this technicality has no bearing on your retarded claim.

Why don't you learn to play hard and loose with the rules rather than sticking to them like an autist? Do you think your beloved Shakespeare didn't innovate and just went by what everyone before him dictated?

>>383140330
>You will actually have to provide some proof for this claim. How would you even go about doing it?
Maybe like the fact that it clearly represents a dialogue but it is actually a monologue?
Or the fact that a whole bunch of characters say the exact same exact word on the same exact subject?

Did you really go into the game and when seeing same reply to the same generic question among all people in the town, you automatically assume that the point is to communicate that every single character in the city, despite presumably being much of different people, have exact same replicas memorized?
Is that how you understand text and textual intention? It did not even for a second occur to you that "dialogue system" based around characters giving lenghtly vaguelly-monologue-ish walls of text densly packed with information based on subject prompts rather than actual line prompts might not be a direct representation of their own words, but rather abstraction?

If this needs further proof to you: I'm back to my original claim. You are braindamaged. And in a very non-trival way. You are basically illiterate. Incapable of understanding most BASIC fucking text. This is beyond terrifying at this point.

How could you ever fucking think that this is something else than AN ABSTRACTION of a dialogue that had happened but is left largely to player imagination.
How did the lack of actual fucking dialogue draw you to the conclusion that it's supposed to be a dialogue but it's poorly done, rather than the much more intuitive "it was never supposed to be a dialogue, just a summary of what you learned from that dialogue" which is method that is been used in gaming for DECADE before Morrowind for fuck sake, and in literature literally before the invention of fucking alphabet.

>>383139926
I see you completely missed the original point. Hence "simple creature".

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>>383140237
Have to agree with >>383140298, that was pretty gay. Just the first sentence would've made a great response.

>>383140785
This isn't a WEBCOMIC or the RETARDED DISCUSSION FORUM you usually FREQUENT. Stop DOING this.

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This is literally what most of Morrowind plays like.

>>383140802
I've done the first sentence hundreds of times, forgive me for trying to mix it up a bit

>>383117795
We already know that it largely has not aged well. That doesn't mean its approach to atmosphere was completely lost though.

A remake of this game would be so great. I can only hope we get it eventually. Also no we do not need Morrowind looking like Cyrodil with volcanoes like the modders seem to believe.

>>383140850
This meme makes me genuinely angry.

>>383138547
the capital was Mournhold at the time.

>>383141043
Are you retarded or something? In WHAT CAPACITY to games "age"?

>>383140850
HAHA XD

>>383140797
Sure thing buddy.

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>>383138560
>Vico

>>383140785
>B-But it's actually intended to be interpreted my way because that makes it less retarded. Morrowind could never have anything wrong with it, so it can't possibly be exactly what it appears to be. No, there must be a deeper meaning that only I can understand, having graduated from MY alma mater.

>>383138424
In what way is it bad writing?

>>383117795
nope, only the ash lands and around the red mountain.

>>383140703
>when we all know that wasn't what was really intended,
How do you know that.
So far you have PROVEN that you don't know what dialogue is. What is direct or indirect speech, what Death of the Author is (and why it's irrelevant here to a comical level): so how do YOU know anything?
what makes you believe that you are not the one wrong?
So far you have said: THE ONLY POSSIBLE ANSWER IS THE MOST SHALLOW, SUPERFICIAL DIRECT INTERPRETATION. WORDS ARE WRITEN, THAT MEANS WORDS ARE SPOKEN! NO DOUBTING THAT!"

The fuck? This is literally the most fucking shallow, idiotic understanding of text. You do understand that maybe you should not intepret everything literary?
It's like a fucking kid struggling with oxymoron because "it does not make sense! The two things contradict each other. It's stupid, the writer is moron! You can't have "tone of a broken harp" because broken harp can't play! That stupid and clearly written by moron! And if you don't agree with me you must be an AUTIST!"

Jesus fucking Christ: the stupidity is one thing, but it's the insane arrogance with which you sit on the most stupid, 6-years-old-with-a-learning-disability understanding an actually insulting everyone else.
While you have ZERO education on the subject.

Seriously, what the FUCK is making you think you are right? What fucking reasonining other than "I said so" do you have? What education?

How are people like you even made?

>>383141323
I'm too lazy to explain myself. You really need to read good books though.

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>>383138547
This is an actual capital city of a country.
Oblivion is a superior game, admit it.

>>383141321
Here is a more straight forward fucking argument.
How do we denote direct speech in text?
There is the UNIVERSAL way of denoting direct speech in text. Can you guess what it is?

>>383141121
This is a very common term among gamers. What don't you get about it? Morrowind is an old game that came out ages ago now. For its time it looked great but time has not been kind to it.

>>383140850
So? Twitchy combat is for mathematically challenged children who can't understand understand a complex game system let alone BEGIN to strategize within one, so resort to having the fastest reaction speed.

Morrowind combat is intended to be turn-based with a real-time facadé (you can look up that word, I'll wait. I know it might be difficult for you).

>>383140849
>This isn't a WEBCOMIC or the RETARDED DISCUSSION FORUM you usually FREQUENT. Stop DOING this.
Go FUCK yourself YOU FUCKING CUNT.
Better?
Why the fuck do you think I care what you think about how I type? Are you sure it's not you who is LOST here and at WRONG place? Am I TRIGGERING you?

Seriously, this is laughable kid. This is not tumbler, I don't care how you feel about how I write.

>>383141523
It looks the same as it did when it was released.

>>383140850
not punching it for easy gains.

>>383141507
imagine going back and playing oblivion again for the first time as a teenager who isn't jaded as fuck yet

christ, i left the sewers, swam across the river, and explored for a bit before realizing there was a fucking COLOSSAL city behind me, and then I spend something like 2 hours just exploring it and marvelling at the amount of NPCs walking around and buildings I could enter

fuck, those were some seriously good times

even then though i knew something was horribly wrong with the levelling system by the time i hit level 10 or so and started getting bodied by virtually everything i came across

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>>383140785
>Or the fact that a whole bunch of characters say the exact same exact word on the same exact subject?
Occam's razor says it's just bad Bethesda writing.
>If this needs further proof to you: I'm back to my original claim.
I'm not sure you know how colons work, but thanks for cutting back on the caps, my dude.
>You are braindamaged etc.
Whoa there, I just stated that you would need to provide proof and asked how you'd do that. Why would you verbally attack me?

>>383141507
That shit not only looks bland as heck it actually looks smaller.

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sigh

>>383141669
>tumbler

Morrowind is like 90% boring shit and 10% amazing world and story development

>>383141736
My first experience with Oblivion was similar. It was so amazing for its time, holy shit.

>>383138547
>>383141507
How does Oblivion manage to look worse?
Fucking impressive.

>>383141670
Which is the problem. Graphics have improved tremendously since those times. Those sandstorms in aldrun would look far better with today's graphics.

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>>383140960
>I've done the first sentence hundreds of times, forgive me for trying to mix it up a bit
You have done it hundreds of times because you knew that "mixing it up" wouldn't work. Trust your instincts and refrain from crazy shit like that.

>>383141521
>B-But it doesn't have quotation marks so it simply must be indirect but just stylized as direct, and that's why it doesn't suck! You can make it not suck my imagining your own personal dialogue and LARPing that they said that instead! Checkmate capitalist!

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>>383140785
>>383140785
>rather than the much more intuitive "it was never supposed to be a dialogue, just a summary of what you learned from that dialogue"
>the much more intuitive
Holy shit, dude. Instead of coming to terms with the fact that Morrowind has wooden dialogue, you made up such an overcomplicated excuse for yourself, that you're telling us it has no dialogue at all.

The player character can influence the conversations with NPCs - the PC can respond to them and they can respond to the PC. It's just that many of the PC's lines are abstracted into simple words or phrases due to the way the dialogue system works by clicking bookmarks. That is fact and was established at the beginning of this argument.

What you're saying is that the NPCs' lines are abstracted too, even though nothing in the game even slightly suggests this. How's this for an explenation: The repeating lines of dialogue and overly verbose explanations are due to gameplay considerations and limitations involved with working on a project the size of Morrowind. It's the same reason they only have a few voice actors for all the NPCs in the later games - it would be ridiculously expensive and time consuming to have them all voiced by separate actors.

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>>383141764
Here, is that big enough for you?

>>383140849
What's wrong with you?
Would you prefer he did *this* like the Redditor you are?

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>>383141941
sorry...

>>383141876
Vanilla Oblivion compared to Morrowind on modding life support

>>383141521
UNIVERSAL, huh? Then why do the vast majority of dialogue boxes in games not have them? Could it possibly be because it's implied from the content? Maybe we want to take a look at your old friend Mr. Dictionary for the meaning of "universal".

>find myself Northwest of seyda neen after doing boots of blinding speed quest
>find the mentor ring and that shipwreck with the diamonds
dope

I also like how smugglers caves have appropriate loot

>>383141737
>>>383140785
>>Or the fact that a whole bunch of characters say the exact same exact word on the same exact subject?
>Occam's razor says it's just bad Bethesda writing.
It's not bad "Bethesda writing", because it's tasteless exposition, it's just a "design" (not really) choice.
Instead of having 5 different topics like "what's the deal with this city?" "what is there to see?" "how do I get to X?" "who calls the shot here?" they just made a generic topic "Balmora" and then made an exposition dump in which the NPCs tell you most of the questions above at once.
It's not laziness, or bad writing (that's like saying a wiki article has shitty writing), it's pure convenience, the player must have the choice to ask everyone for directions and general information and having 10 topics clogging forever your topic list would become annoying fast (it already becomes pretty annoying late in the game when you have 30 different useless topics).
When Morrowind has actual dialogue is with relevant NPCs, most of the rest you can talk to simply because the game is programmed this way, humanoid characters belonging to X faction have a set of predetermined answers to topics about general information, that's the reason even characters that are supposed to be hostile have generic answers if you calm them.

It's like saying Oblivion has bad writing because guards always answer the same way when you ask for directions.

>>383141780
>zero fatigue
Gee whillikers anon, it's like you're playing the game wrong or something! How retarded are you?

Just imagine being a 13 year old kid looking at Morrowind text and thinking
>you know what, this isn't what's really being said to me. This is just what's being conveyed to me, I'm having a normal, completely different conversation that conveys the same information. No matter how many times this NPC says 'you' or 'I', that's not really happening, it's all an abstraction

This is actually what this guy thinks.

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is shitting on Morrowind the most successful bait on /v/?

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>mfw I ruined my Morrowind experience by using the wiki to locate all the good armors and weapons

fuck me

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>>383142395
fatigue is irrelevant

>>383141737
>Occam's razor says it's just bad Bethesda writing.
Lets add Occam's razor to the list of shit you don't understand. Jesus, the list is inifinite!

>>383141737
>I just stated that you would need to provide proof and asked how you'd do that.
This is literary understanding. If you knew how that works, you would not be asking for "proof" of this. I did provide more than sufficient reasoning already. You can't be just completely stupid, then say "everybody else is wrong unless they provide me with arbitrary proof that will satisfy me under nebulous conditions.

>>383141950
It has no quotation marks.
It is a monologue representing what clearly by logic of the situation must have been a dialogue.
It does not look like natural speech - it's too condensed and long and feels like an article or summary rather than a piece of natural speech.
Therefor, it MUST BE DIRECT SPEECH!

I really don't know what to tell you here. Your complaint is that it does not feel like natural direct speech. Why does not a massive fucking amount of evidence that it's not supposed to be direct speech on every level - from structural to formal - does not make you just realize: "Hmmm, maybe it wasn't direct speech in the first place!"

Instead, nope. Everything points down to the fact that it's not direct speech, but because you are angry at Bethesda, that will ultimately serve as a proof that it's a direct speech but badly done.
Great.

I'm done with you. There is nothing else to say. You do not listen to reason, none of you do. Not even in the slightest.

>>383141998
>capital city
>of the EMPIRE

>>383142363
The exact same information would be conveyed in Oblivion with a line "Tell me about Belmora". In fact, Oblivion NPCs still go on long rants, just not quite as long or frequently as Morrowind ones.

Face it, it's a poorly designed system and not an abstraction. Of course it was a conscious decision to make the NPC dump everything onto you, but every word the NPC uses is their own wording, not a magical representation of something else.

>>383142716
>This is literary understanding. If you knew how that works, you would not be asking for "proof" of this.
>Why does not a massive fucking amount of evidence that it's not supposed to be direct speech on every level - from structural to formal - does not make you just realize: "Hmmm, maybe it wasn't direct speech in the first place!"
So which is it? Is proof unnecessary because your interpretation is so obvious or is there a massive fucking amount of evidence you just haven't posted?

>>383142964
Whichever one makes me right, philistine.

>>383142716
So what you're saying is you're giving up because you lost the argument and nobody agrees with you.

>>383142710
Okay so according to http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Combat#Chance_to_Hit the formula for hit chance is (Weapon Skill + (Agility / 5) + (Luck / 10)) * (0.75 + 0.5 * Current Fatigue / Maximum Fatigue) + Fortify Attack Magnitude + Blind Magnitude

This means that with those stats the chance of hitting would be( 68 + ( 63/5 ) + (55/10)) * (0.75 + 0.5 * 1) = 107%

Looking the stats of the NPC is a complete mess so let's just say it straight up halves your percentage to 50%.

To miss 12 times straight (I stopped counting already) that's even less likely than a coin giving the same answer 12 times, less than a 0.02%.

That webm is bullshit.

>>383142621
yes

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Depicted: indirect dialogue. Note the lack of quotation marks.

>>383141979
>Instead of coming to terms with the fact that Morrowind has wooden dialogue,
I could fucking turn this thing right against you. Instead of coming to terms that morrowind does not feature direct dialogue, you made such an insanely stupid excuse for yourself. Hinging on this:
IT'S NOT DIALOGUE YOU RETARD. The definition of dialogue is not ambivalent. It's set in motherfucking STONE.
You DENY THE ACTUAL FUCKING DEFINITION OF THE FUCKING WORD DIALOGUE FOR FUCK SAKE rather than coming into terms that the system in morrowind is not as literal as you initially fucking assumed.

And this is not a fucking problem of Morrowind Either. You do realize that fucking Ultima or original Wasteland had precisely the same fucking dialogues, right? IT'S NOT ABOUT MORROWIND, this system is no fucking way exclusive to Morrowind.
It's about ability to comprehend basic text.

And you ignore everything, right down to most basic fucking definition of most basic fucking words rather than come to terms that maybe, you just misread the fucking thing.

>The player character can influence the conversations with NPCs - the PC can respond to them and they can respond to the PC.
In small bits when the system switches to direct speech. In which cases, a dialogue option appears in the text window and all the relevant pasages are actually marked by proper quotations.

>What you're saying is that the NPCs' lines are abstracted too, even though nothing in the game even slightly suggests this.
You mean aside from the text actually not sounding like actual direct speech, no quotations unless for specific parts, or the fact that the replies are set in stone for certain areas and subjects, rather than having variation?

The most obvious proof is simple: it is not a dialogue yet it communicates dialogue, and it does not feel like direct speech.
That is actually all that you need to know. just like with this piece of shit:
>>383141950
I'm done with you
See >>383142716
You are braindamaged.

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>>383142716
>Lets add Occam's razor to the list of shit you don't understand.
Please elaborate.
>It does not look like natural speech - it's too condensed and long and feels like an article or summary rather than a piece of natural speech.
Like I said, typical Bethesda writing. You could be right but you probably aren't.

>>383142881
No it wouldn't because Oblivion cut down on that shit harshly.
In Oblivion you can only ask guards for directions, initiating a conversation with a random NPC with no ties to any quest will give you the generic "Rumours" topic.
You're basically complaining because you can take a random NPC in Morrowind, make a generic question and get a generic answer, while praising Oblivion because they just removed that option and limited it to getting directions for guards.

These threads make it seem like people have the weird expectation that Morrowind NPCs should all have engaging dialogue, when that's false for all TES games. I see people shitting on Morrowind dialogues while praising Oblivion, when the only difference between a random NPC from Morrowind and Oblivion is that the former has a plethora of generic topics you can ask to get generic information about the zone and stuff while in Oblivion you can only get rumours from a generic zone-dependent pool.

It's the same shit, only Oblivion is shallower.

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More indirect dialog. I wonder what he's really saying? I bet it's interesting.

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>>383143235

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every day i go on /v/ and post the same shit in the same threads at the same people about the same games

>>383143175
The odds of a roulette wheel landing on red 12 times in a row might be low, but when you get to that 12th turn, the odds of it landing on black don't suddenly become higher.

>>383117795

This takes me back, before BetheSHIT took the RP from my G

>>383123374
Go thicc

>>383143573
So why did you think that was relevant to my post or to the conversation at all.

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>>383142716
>I'm done with you. There is nothing else to say. You do not listen to reason, none of you do. Not even in the slightest.
Just don't do anything rash, anon. Contain that autistic rage.

>>383136694
pure fucking autism, fag neet needs to get off his high horse
>You see: I know this is all part of the list of most rudimentary shit that little children know but you somehow missed, but the "di" in "dialogue" actually means "two" and refers to the fact that dialogue actually captures the communication between two agents.
>Because for starters, you'd have to realize the possibility that you might have not known something, or be wrong about something, and that is clearly impossible for you pieces of shit.

>>383143235
>>383143426
So after declaring that Morrowind monologue simply MUST be direct dialogue because Bethesda always has "shitty writing", after completely losing that argument, you counter by ignoring my posts to give irrelevant examples from fucking POKEMON and ZELDA. Of all fucking things. POKEMON AND ZELDA. ALL WHILE CRITICIZING BETHESDA WRITING. And one of the examples isn't even in fucking English, when we were talking about an English game the entire time.

I'm fucking done here. Go back to your literal children's game, kid.

>>383143765
Roulette is a metaphor for Morrowind's combat
the house always wins without mods

>>383143930
It really isn't, Morrowind combat systems and how it's integrated with the rest of the game as a whole is way less frustrating than in Oblivion's.

>>383119684
>impassible
>he didn't enchant levitate asap and fly everywhere, raining down fireballs from above like an angry god

Please lrn2play.

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>b-b-b-b-b-b-b-b-b-b-b-b-b-b-b-b-b-but you're an OOOOOOOOOORC!
The manual tells me to play how I want, but then draws the line at an orc casting spells? Sad!

>>383143417
>Please elaborate.
Occam's Razor is a common-sense saying that says that the answer that relies on least assumptions about things we can't know for sure is most likely to be right.
It's actually your theory that relies on more assumptions of things you can't know than mine. First of all you are an idiot who does not know anything, down to what Occam's Razor actually says, so that kind rules out probablity that you are right about anything, but second of all:
Your explanation is based on the assumption that Morrowind's writing was bad. However, that is ALSO THE CONCLUSION of your theory.

You can't conclude that Bethesda's writing of dialogue is just bad until you know for sure that the dialogue system is based around direct representation of direct speech.
Yet you use "bethesda's writing is bad" as an assumption on which you make your argument for bethesda's writing just being bad.

Meanwhile, my explanation does not rely on an assumptions about quality of writing (actually, nothing that I've said has anything to do with actual quality of prose used in the game what-so-ever. I'm talking exclusively about the formal system of dialogue representation. My argument is actually the same regardless of my or anyone's opinion on the quality of prose - I think it's solid, but that is actually irrelevant here): it's based on proper use of well-established literary mechanisms and terminology, and basic semantic logic.

I'm just applying basic definitions and then drawing basic inferences. I don't rely on assumption of anything that can't be verified. You do.

Occam's razor, as irrelevant as it really is, actually turns into my favor here.

>>383144219
No, any reasonable person put in front of Morrowind would assume it our way. Notice how you're the only one who believes it's a magical interpretive dance monologue where you derive your own meaning.

Everyone else came to a much more reasonable, much more obvious, much more sensible conclusion that doesn't require tripping over ourselves.

>>383143252
>IT'S NOT DIALOGUE YOU RETARD. The definition of dialogue is not ambivalent. It's set in motherfucking STONE.
I'm not arguing against the definition of the word "dialogue". In fact, I pointed out to you how the player character and the NPCs can both respond to each other.

>In small bits when the system switches to direct speech. In which cases, a dialogue option appears in the text window and all the relevant pasages are actually marked by proper quotations.
So now there is direct speech sometimes? In any case, that's just straight up not true. Look at >>383131063 On the picture, you can clearly see the two characters communicate. The player character provokes a response from the NPC by somehow suggesting he'd like to learn more about his background. As you yourself earlier said, this is abstracted into just the word "Background" in the dialogue menu, due to the way the system works by utilising bookmarks. The NPC responds by indulging the PC's curiosity and stating some facts about himself. The PC influenced the conversation and provoked a response from the NPC with a bookmark dialogue option like any other, without a choosable proper sentence or any quotation marks. This is fucking dialogue.

>>383143252
>You mean aside from the text actually not sounding like actual direct speech, no quotations unless for specific parts, or the fact that the replies are set in stone for certain areas and subjects, rather than having variation?
Again, no quotations. Just abstractions on the player character's side. What you're saying "doesn't sound like" direct speech is just a bit stiffly written to-the-point text meant to provide the player with information. As with the repeating lines, this is due to gameplay considerations (the player should be given very precise directions, because there are no quest markers in the game) and the limitations I already mentioned in an earlier post. It's still dialogue - it just is the way it is because of gameplay reasons.

>>383143175
It actually is a bullshit webm. The NPC is a custom one with a zillion agility and unarmoured skill

>>383144141
nice bait.

>>383117795
The main aspect of what made Morrowind so great was the lack of quest markers, which forced players to actually take in their surroundings and find their own way to a destination.
It's the main reason for why I can't get into Skyrim or Fallout 4, you end up simply following the marker to the next objective without really thing about what you're doing. That single feature alone has destroyed open world games for me and for many people, yet they probably don't even realise it because they're glued to the quest marker at all times without even knowing it.

It irritates me that they'll never make a Fallout/Elder Scrolls game without giant quest markers ever again. It ruins any immersion into the world that they've spent years creating and turns players into mindless drones following a floating arrow. Biggest shame in modern gaming

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>>383144219
>Your explanation is based on the assumption that Morrowind's writing was bad.
It's a fact.
>It's actually your theory that relies on more assumptions of things you can't know than mine.
No, it's actually the other way around because Morrowind has shit writing.
>First of all you are an idiot who does not know anything
Do you actually think you're discussing with only one person? Are you retarded?

>>383144850
Great, Tucker Carlson. As if we needed any more evidence that you're an illiterate Trump supporter. Stop trying to debate me, you've clearly shown you're not capable. You aren't even capable of elaborating full sentences without introducing meaningless rhetoric.

>>383144141
I know this is bait but it brings up a point that Oblivion and Skyrim are missing, which is that they aren't role playing games anymore.

In the modern Elder Scrolls games you can be any race and become master at absolutely everything while belonging to and being the leader of every single guild. So what's the point of a second playthrough...? Truth be told I couldn't even force myself to a single playthrough of Fallout 4 or Skyrim because following an arrow is not enjoyable gameplay

>>383144850
>my opinions are fact

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>>383145041

>>383144396
>No, any reasonable person put in front of Morrowind would assume it our way.
Dude, I've discussed this subject with literally hundreds of people. You are in minority. And one thing you all have in common is EXTREMELY poor literary education and experience.

So no. You are wrong on that one. Dumb people assume your way. That does not make you right. That actually just illustrates your stupidity.

>>383144401
>In fact, I pointed out to you how the player character and the NPCs can both respond to each other
In specialized occasions. In which case quotation marks appear and the tone of the writing changes. This proves my point: the fact that the dialogue works in several different modes, the one much more prevailent is the one that most people here complain about.

The fact the fact that the game clearly switches to direct dialogue in certain occasions is further proof that direct dialogue is only a alternative MODE and further proves that majority of the dialogue is in different, non-direct fucking mode.

I've already established all of this in the begining of the discussion.

>So now there is direct speech sometimes?
YES YOU RETARD. SEE >>383129112
>With a few exceptions, where the dialogue is directly transcribed (those the ones where you can chose your own reply rather than just picking a subject), they give you a stylized SUMMARY of what you learned about the subject.
How could I be ANY LESS clear on this?>On the picture, you can clearly see the two characters communicate.
NO.
LOOK AGAIN YOU RETARD. THERE IS TEXT. QUOTE TO ME THE LINE OF TEXT THAT REPRESENTS WHAT THE PC IS SAYING.

>The player character provokes a response from the NPC by somehow suggesting
Diegetic and non-diegetic content you retard. Learn the difference.

>this is due to gameplay considerations
ALL of this is due to gameplay consideration you moron. The dialogue is the way it is - non-direct most of the time - for reasons of gameplay consideration.

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>>383144219
>You can't conclude that Bethesda's writing of dialogue is just bad until you know for sure that the dialogue system is based around direct representation of direct speech.
You're the only person who thinks that that is some sort of outlandish assumption.

Pic related is Morrowind's manual on the topic of dalogue. Notice how it calls it "dialogue". Notice how it calls the NPC's respons a "response" and not "a part of the monologue providing an abstracted representation of a conversation".

>>383145215
Hundreds of people in your private forum somewhere where everyone respects you because you have a post count of 50,000 and everyone one of them is a wall of text without fail?

Nobody in this thread though.

>>383142621
Considering the multiple paragraph spanning posts by autists on every side, probably

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>>383144850
name a game with non-shit writing then jackass

>>383144850
>It's a fact.
It's not only just your opinion, it's also a conclusion of your argument, which means it's not true until you prove the rest of your argument to be true.

Your reasoning is actually entirely circular.

>Do you actually think you're discussing with only one person?
I'm discussing this with a bunch of retards and I see no reason to bother differenciating between you fucks. Say something that makes you worth recognizing above the see of absolute cretenism and I might start to keep track of who is saying who. Until then, you are one of many voices in an asylum.

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So much anger here. We need to tear down the walls between us!

>>383124663
jesus christ i knew gothic fags were mostly retards but come the fuck on, calling him a fedora "hurr durr"? just dont even post next time and save yourself the embarassment

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>>383145376
Gothic 2

>>383145215
>Dude, I've discussed this subject with literally hundreds of people.
Link the threads.

>>383145626
lmoa

>>383145380
>differenciating
Differentiating.

>>383145295
>You're the only person who thinks that that is some sort of outlandish assumption.
It is. It's actually completely stupid. It works as a general sentiment (yeah, we all played Oblivion and Fallout 3/4 and those games have awful writing so it's OK to make fun of it) but it does not fly in an actual argument. First of all: we are talking twenty ears history some six games and at least fifty different people. Bethesda's writing is USUALLY awful, especially these days, but they also did wrote Shimmering Islands for an example.

The real actual problem here is not that "Bethesda's Writing is bad": that is a stupid generalization that is just beyond fucking useless, but rather specifically:
MORROWIND'S WRITING IS BAD. And that is a pretty outlandish suggest, yes. It's not out of the realms of impossible: but it's certainly not even universally agreed upon.

And more importantly, you can't base your argument on the conclusion of your argument. It's circular reasoning.
You assume Morrowinds writing is bad, which is predicated on the assumption that the dialogue is direct transcription.
And your assumption that the dialogue is direct transcription is based on the assumption that Morrowind's writing is bad.
It's really that simple.

None of your pic proves anything. It does not specify in what form will the response be fucking communicated.

Seriously: it's actually baffling that we have to have this discussion. it may surprise you, but the thing you are struggling with: it's not something a normal human being struggles. there is no reason to more specifically explain how the dialogue system works because it's based on the assumption than actual player is not a child and therefor KNOWS HOW TO UNDERSTAND TEXT.

The fact that you are struggling with this is WORRYSOME AS FUCK.
You have no idea how actually bad this is. It's like if one third of your brain wasn't there. I don't think anyone ever assumed that this might ever be a problem.

>>383145380
>cretenism
*cretinism

>>383145215
>N-no you don't understand, you need a 4 year degree in serving starbucks coffee to understand the true beauty of Morrowind writing. Everyone I've ever spoken to at starbucks completely agrees with me on the true nature of the game that they've never played.

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>>383144980
>Great, Tucker Carlson. As if we needed any more evidence that you're an illiterate Trump supporter.
Do I have to make a background check on every image I save so that you 'murricans don't get butthurt over your politics?
>Stop trying to debate me, you've clearly shown you're not capable.
You're the one resorting to ad hominems and also your tone is not suitable for a serious debate.
>>383145041
>my opinions are fact
In this case it's generally agreed that Bethesda doesn't have exactly stellar writing.

>>383145626
give a real answer please

>>383145908
Be honest, what has your ability to warp reality and convince less assertive people of it ever brought you in life? Besides your clear god complex, I mean.

>>383138424
What if Jiub is a shitty wannabe writer?

Whats wrong with morrowinds dialogue? (non autistic response please)

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>>383145376
Baldur's Gate has overall pretty good writing. Pic related.

>>383146464
Just the fact that it dumps everything on you at once.

The argument being had here is that one guy keeps trying to say that when a character in Morrowind says "I", or "me" to you, they're not actually saying it, it's just an abstract interpretation of what they're actually doing, which is having a conversation with you about their wife and kids and how Vvardelfell is currently in late stage capitalism.

And that everyone else, the 99% of people who don't see it way, must be retarded.

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>>383145626
master troll

>>383146774
You can just read it at your own pace though, no one forces you to click everything at once

>>383146774
>willignly ask someone about something
>he answers you in detail
>"b-but he told me too much!"
Imagine being this retarded.

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>>383145215
>You are in minority.
I seriously doubt it.

>In which case quotation marks appear and the tone of the writing changes.
There are no quotation marks in the game. There are dialogue options that appear in certain conversations separately from the "topics" section, but they don't keep the conversation going in the same way the topics do, in that they can be a response to something the other party said and warrant a response from that part in return.

>The fact the fact that the game clearly switches to direct dialogue in certain occasions is further proof that direct dialogue is only a alternative MODE
Again, you have yet to show why you think any of the other dialogue isn't direct speech. All you've said so far is that it doesn't "sound like" it.

>Diegetic and non-diegetic content you retard. Learn the difference.
Where the fuck do you draw this line, that the character asking for directions would be "non diegetic content" to you?

>>383145908
The assumption I meant is that Morrowind lets you engage NPCs in dialogue, which is what is stated in the manual. I never mentioned anything about the quality of writing and that really is beside the point anyway.

>>383147015
>don't keep the conversation going in the same way
Sorry
I meant they do, obviously

>>383146992
You know what, I don't really mind if he told me too much. The argument being had here is completely different. See:
> one guy keeps trying to say that when a character in Morrowind says "I", or "me" to you, they're not actually saying it, it's just an abstract interpretation of what they're actually doing, which is having a conversation with you about their wife and kids and how Vvardelfell is currently in late stage capitalism.

>>383147015
>Where the fuck do you draw this line, that the character asking for directions would be "non diegetic content" to you?
You draw the line at what's supposed to exist in the game world and what isn't.

Of course, he will try to claim that none of the dialogue exists in the game world and is just an abstraction (without proof, just with his retarded blustering over his literature degree).

>>383146051
>>N-no you don't understand, you need a 4 year degree in serving starbucks coffee to understand the true beauty of Morrowind writing.
Outside of the fact that you have to insult entire fucking field of study to make an "argument", the irony is that my argument is exactly the opposite.

You need to not be actually mentally damaged to understand how Morrowind's dialogue works. I also NEVER said anything about the actual quality of the writing as part of this discussion. That is your project.
YOU are making this argument because YOU need to use it to further prove your point about Morrowind's writing be bad. It's what your self-esteem relies on.

I'm merely making the point that the dialogue works differently. I'm not actually making qualitative distinction: it could be bad, it could be great, that is a matter of different and much more subjective judgement. What I'm saying is that YOU DID NOT UNDERSTAND IT. And therefor you can't even BEGIN judging it.

ONCE you understand how the dialogue works, then we can talk about it's quality. But until you can read, you can't judge a book. Just because somebody is telling you "you can't read", that does not mean he is automatically also saying "the book is good". He is just saying "you can't judge it if you are illiterate."

Finally, most children can understand how Morrowinds dialogue work.
Most people can't verbalize it very well, and only those who have decent education can actually trust their own opinions. Most people can tell if something is illegal by gut, but you need a law degree or at least consulting a law to know that with any kind of certainity too.

And you are here more-or-less mocking a lawyer for his stupid arrogance that makes him think you need a law degree to really judge a complicated case and know if it's a case of crime or not.

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>>383145380
>above the see of absolute cretenism

>>383147305
My self-esteem relies on Morrowind writing being bad?

Thanks, I learned something today.

>>383147305
>YOU are making this argument because YOU need to use it to further prove your point about Morrowind's writing be bad
But we're not arguing that Morrowind's writing is bad. We're arguing that your talk about abstract representations of dialogue is crazy and based on nothing that's actually in the game.

>>383146296
>Besides your clear god complex, I mean.
I'm sorry if I'm hurting your precious little feelings and self-esteem.

Here is a sad, sad fact for you: It's about time you learned to deal with the fact that you are most likely wrong about everything. And that most people know more about just about every thing in the world than you do.
I know. That realization is terrifying. It's much more easy to convince yourself that everybody else is just an evil asshole than to admit that you might not be particularly smart person, and that most of what you believe sucks.

You can't do that though. Because realizing that other people might know more than you is the ONLY way to actually eventually become like those people. If you spend HALF the time you complain about people like me actually fucking challenging yourself and educating yourself, you'd be a decent person and much, much less fucking miserable.
Well, no, you'd still be miserable, but at least you would not be embarrasing yourself so much.

Instead of claiming that everybody with stronger argument "has god complex and is warping reality", just learn something. Stop making excuse and stop being an idiot afraid and insulted by smarter people than you are:
Get fucking smart yourself.

Or at least stop fucking whining, and don't bother other people with your stupid opinions.

>>383147725
I'm not particularly impressed by a literate major's autistic screeching. You see them every day in "sassy" articles on Buzzfeed, it gets old.

You're wrong, and your degree isn't going to change that.

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>>383147305
>YOU are making this argument because YOU need to use it to further prove your point about Morrowind's writing be bad. It's what your self-esteem relies on.
What did HE mean by this?

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>bothered by how all the NPC repeat the same encyclopedia entries about things
>someone suggests that it's because it's actually just an abstraction of what was actually said
>oh that's a neat way to think of it
>nobody else thinks the same
>guy who suggested it turns out to be a massive sperg

>>383147687
I think hes trying to say that morrowinds dialogue is a mechanic to deliver you information rather than present an actual conversation

>>383148009
It may be a "neat" way to think about it in the same way a feminist interpretation is a "neat" way to think about Hamlet.

But it's not true. That's the problem with literature majors, and why they spend their days serving coffee. They get too used to writing interpretive essays that they start doing it to absolutely everything and getting mad when reasonable people reply with "no, you just made that up."

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>>383148009
Pretty much this. THAT GUY just had to ruin his own case by being an obnoxious autist. No-one will agree with you if you go out of you way to be a faggot.

>>383148267
you can't really say what's true about Hamlet because you can't talk to Shakespeare. also the purpose of such interpretations isn't to get at what the author intended but what the work expresses regardless of authorial intent.

>>383148124
Well, obviously. The purpose of asking around in those games is to find useful information, but it's still a piece of in-game dialogue and how natural it ends up being is just a matter of delivery. I mean, you wouldn't sensibly claim characters talking exposition in books or movies is not dialogue.

>>383148537
Maybe. Until the purpose becomes not what to express how you really see a work, but to jerk yourself off over how you could possibly interpret it even though you know there's no chance in hell a reasonable person would actually interpret it that way without you instructing them to first.

And until you actually convince yourself and all your literary friends that your retarded made up interpretation is actually true, and then rage at everyone else because they're the "minority" that doesn't understand correctly.

>>383140037
>durability
>good

>>383140237
hilarious

>>383148861
Sorry having to pay attention to your stock of repair items was too hard.

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I wanna play morrowind so bad but don't have the time/energy to put up with finding the right mods again.

Is there an ultimate mod pack I can download somewhere or are mod makers still throwing hissy fits over mod compilations?

>>383148619
Is he saying it isnt dialogue? (cant be assed reading all his shit) i just think that the dialogue wasnt really meant to be realistic or anything but a way to deliver relevant information

>>383147905
>>383148267
Jesus you fuckers are really fucking intimidated by the whole literature deal.

Fun fact, I'm not a literature major. I do general linguistics and cognitive psychology, textual comprehension, literary theory and philosophy of language are just many things those can be applied at.

As for
>>383148267
>But it's not true.
It's absolutely, 100% true. As true as you could ever get on this subject. It's not some crazy, outlandish theory: it's a basic summary of how actual human mind works, and how it represents ideas in textual form. It's a fact. Even YOU can't actually seriously argue that what Morrowind presents you with is an actual transcription of a fucking dialogue.

You can't do that. It's not two people talking. It's a series of stylized monologues. Those can't be denied. There literally aren't lines of one of the character, and the other is provided in such fucking form that it actually ignores context of any actual dialogue going on. Each of those entries is entirely context free outside of the few that actually do give the player an actual dialogue choice instead of having him pick a subject.

Every line of a dialogue has to be context sensitive. Every single generic entry in Morrowind conversation system is clearly and intentionally not context sensitive.
It's an indexed summary of things the character has to say.

That is not actually fucking debateable. It's not a wild interpretation. Actually you yourself KNOW this fucking shit. It's why you are complaining. The original complaint is that you are going through a wiki instead of through a real dialogue.

Because THAT IS WHAT IT IS. It's an indexed set of entries detailing information on specific subjects.