MMORPG'S

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Format your posts you autist.
Literally unreadable.

>>383107845

Not him but I'll hit enter a couple times and see if that helps:

Is tab target combat outdated? What if all of your abilities in WoW required aiming, and all of your auto attacks as well. Ranged or melee. Healing or DPS. Would this be possible?

I believe that this could really fix WoW and a lot of MMO's in general. The problem with them is that people only play for the endgame which means that the overall experience is not fun or engaging enough, I mean there's not much intuititivity involved in pressing tab on a mob and pressing 1-9 on your keyboard.

There's no requirement to move or aim. In fact you could use right click on the mob to initiate your basics, alt tab and then return to rinse and repeat. If combat was more fun people would be more inclined to explore the world and do quests, it would solve the issue with kill and return quests as people would actually have fun killing those 10 murlocs or quillboars.

Gear would still play a part as well, if two equally skilled players were to fight, with one being better geared he should win. His attacks will hit harder and he will take less damage.

Of course in order for this to happen Blizzard would have to ditch WoW for an entirely new engine which a lot of players wouldn't be up to. But if the combats fun enough than I don't think it matters as it would draw in so much more attention.

>>383108421
What are you illiterate? It's a fucking paragraph not a rubicks cube.

>>383108509

Aaaand its a shitpost.

>>383108421
>someone tries to format a post to make it more comprehensible
>''OMG LE REDDIT SPACEING WTF GO BACK REEEEEEEEEE''
What a bunch of homos on this board, god damn.

>>383108523
Yeah, one that would have been much better with several line breaks.

>>383108421
Fuck off back to red dit
Faggot

>>383108595
Why?

>>383108817
Reddit hasn't been spamfiltered for a while now newfag.

>ive never played a korean mmo

the thread

>>383107845
So Tera?

>>383109224

You don't actually just press 1-9, you don't stand still while playing tab target mmos. The bare minimum needed to kill something and the best way to kill it are extremely far apart, and even in most modern tab target mmos players include enemies with things to avoid or interrupt, and the gap between auto attacking mobs and using abilities is massive.

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Tab targetting exists because of internet latency issues. Without it, you end up with something like Tree of Savior, which is an action-combat game that you have to aim skills. Swordmen tree classes are garbage in PvP because it's impossible to land hits on that game, players are always one or two seconds ahead of where they're actually displaying on your screen.

Non tab-target combat only works if you play from within Korea, meaning you have a ping of about 8~20. Anywhere else in the world it's not viable.

>>383109270
wouldnt that make him an oldfag that hasnt recently been here?

wouldnt you knowing this make you the newfag?

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>>383109270
Kill yourself

>>383109647
>wouldnt you knowing this make you the newfag?
You gotta elaborate on this leap in logic.

>>383107845
>he thinks you don't have to move in FFXIV
As with the 2.5s GCD thing, this kind of complaint just proves people haven't played the damn game

>>383109647
Not him but the guy he responded to would still be new. The Reddit wordfilter being a thing is relatively new itself. Being here since starting any time this decade still makes you a newfag, kids

>>383109751
>he doesn't know the secret trick
You need to go back.

>>383109524
Not true at all. Hell even in the highest fucking instances in WoW all that's happening is exactly what OP stated. People standing still and occasionally moving around while spamming some abilities to get giant numbers.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zowdjsXhaAs

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>>383109823
>tfw here since 2006

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>>383107845
Tab target gives the game the option to have a decent skill list, lets say, 30+ active skills. Using them properly in a efficient way and instant decision-making in oh shit moments was fun, specially since all players have a chance to git gud at it, talking about ping here. Action-targeting games only give you the option to have a small number of active skills, and while its true its skill ceiling is higher than tab targeting, it leaves behind players with high ping and there's absolutely nothing people can do about it, either move and live next to the server, or dont you dare hope to be among the best.

>>383109928
I already proved you are wrong
kill yourself

>>383110074
Why can't skill based games have lots of skills? Buffs still exist in them, totems, pets, etc... still as well. Just a lot of them would require some actually input other than right click + 1-9. But yeah OP the big problem is latency, can;t really aim that spell to hit the fast moving player when he's 200 ping ahead of you and you are already dead.

>>383107845
Are paragraphs really that hard?

>>383108509
Fuck off with this reddit spacing.

I didn't even read your posts and I know your'e faggots.

>>383107845
>have fun killing those 10 murlocs or quillboars.
Yeah, for an hour. When I'm in the several thousands of hours grinding for an item, the last thing I want to be doing is making sure my reticule is lined up for each mob.

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>>383110250
>proved me wrong
>where I already made a post containing the evil R-word

>>383107845
A much lower max level, soloing is only viable in the starting zones, only safe areas initially are the capitol cities and the starting zones, any other potentially safe town, settlement, or outpost must be fought over and managed by a guild, instanced dungeons are for mats and crafting is the main source of gear, allow guilds to ally with guilds from other factions horde and alliance races only have a presence in their respective cities, actively place mob spawns so that you have to use tactics and CC not to get overwhelmed outside of dungeons, to make taking a settlement or outpost from another guild viable town guards are not elites, allow guilds from the same faction to wage war on each other, maybe make a few abilities require aiming, implement as a test server to test popularity, if popular implement it as the new RP servers.

>>383110523
Grinding is cancer. Go play diablo freak.

>>383110526
You mean like this post?
Reddit may me be a better place for fags like you

>>383110279
About the amount of active skills, the problem that I have seen with action MMO's is that developers try to fill the correct number of keybinds the average gamer can reach around WASD, which is fairly limited. Just my opinion but the best option MMOs can take right now is a tab-target game that has plenty of dodge/block mechanics, kind of like GW2 dodges and Tera blocks, with proper care to hitboxes and fast paced mechanics that depend on visual/sound alerts that are not AoE circles on the ground.

>>383111646
I agree. Of course a real time skill based MMORPG with the beautiful world of WoW would be the tits but it's simply not possible with our current level of technology with servers. Hopefully if there ever is a WoW 2 it goes this route.

>>383109619
this. Archers that have sub 50ms ping have absurd attack speed compared to those who have more.

>>383107845
Agreed. Tab target cancer is fucking lazyness incarnate. Boy do I love automatic basic attacks and undodgeable attacks. Literally the only thing holding real time MMORPG combat is the developers motivation with server management

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FQPVoVaPOQU

>>383111646
say, does TERA had the same combat as GW2? Is GW2 considered tab-targetting or action?

>>383108421
FFXIV players are retards

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>>383109619
>Non tab-target combat only works

It still doesn't really work because you also have to cap the maximum amount of people in an area to a very small amount too. So it's hardly even an MMO anymore.

>>383112418
TERA has significant instancing, even regular non-dungeon open world areas are instanced, so the player count in any one area doesn't get very high. Takes away the "massive" part of MMO.

>>383107845
I don't know too much about this, but that's WoW with the undercity up on the right, right? I've never seen it from this angle.

>>383112418
GW2 is tab target, its nowhere close to Tera, gameplay wise. But at least the camera is fairly similar if you are used to the action-based AHK script that some people use in GW2, that script made my short stay in GW2 highly satisfying.

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>>383107845
bdo is the only thing that does this right now.
being that its an action hack n slash type shit like vindictus, but without the instances which makes it a real mmo. It lacks however content to really challenge parties of people with refined boss fights.

You can see the good and bad of not having hand crafted instanced shit with BDO, but you also see the potential fun of having vindictus be a real open world mmo.

>>383107845
I know click2move is outdated but every diablo style arpg and MOBA forces it on you anyway.

>>383107845
>WoW with action combat
Memestar tried that, look how that worked out for them :^)

>>383113625
>>383107845

check out bdo op, it will show you the ups and downs of an mmo doing exactly what you are talking about.

>>383113737
ARPGs Mu Online style could easily make a comeback nowadays. Makes me wonder if Lost Ark and Lineage are still in development hell.

>>383107845
Melee is simulated pretty accurately in a Tab Target game. In a few ways it does melee more accurately than in action combat engines because of the whole "cutting through a dozen enemies at once" cartoon nonsense.

This kinda means the whole idea of melee and ranged needs to be rebalanced since an aim requirement tacked onto important MOVE requirements for ranged players would drastically increase their workload while not significantly impacting a melee player.

It is top down but it might help you to look at Battlerite for help in forming your opinions on combat systems further. I don't care for their classes too much but the base mechanics of what they're going for is pretty interesting.

>>383113625
BDO's attacks are fuck huge. You barely feel like you're aiming. Vindictus is so old and has been made so easy, I was really hoping BDO would be Vindictus 2 but, nah not at all.

WoW 2 is gonna be awesome. a cartoony VR game that feels like being in disneyland. They have an Irvine/Anaheim campus for a reason.

>>383109979
You make me miss the Isle of Time. How the fuck do you even do that to someone?

https://fracturedmmo.com/
What is your opinion on this failure?

>>383112245
I can agree that if they did anything to WoW to improve the combat, deleting auto attacks of all kind and rebalancing the classes accordingly would go a long way.

>>383107845 (1/2)
if people would stop shitposting about your formatting, i think this thread would actually be alright. but with 40 posts and 20 unique posters i dont think that's gonna happen. but i'll give it a shot

in terms of tab-target combat, people can think whatever they want about it being "outdated" or being "fucking laziness incarnate" (as seen in >>383112245 ) but turning the game into an action RPG changes the game from what it is. putting skillshots in the game can make things interesting, for sure, but for something like MMORPGs where you're not guaranteed to have very good netcode, and thus having hitboxes working the way they're supposed to it creates issues. it creates the issue of
>are hits registered server-side and have to put more resources in to try to have it still feel good
or
>do we register hits client-side to guarantee it happens as it appears for players, but create even bigger problems when lag happens, and open the game up to potential issues with hackers?
there's barely any middle ground with hitreg, and thus usually one or the other.

in terms of "it'll make even menial tasks more fun", do you want people to have fun with the combat? or do you want them to have fun with the game. unless you're a genius, you won't find the perfect balance. few games ever do. tab targeting was good enough, and the WoW had enough "skillshots" (in the form of AOEs that are channeled or have fair cast times so in PVP it required some prediction) to keep things interesting. it's not exactly something that gets old as the variance and diversity came from the abilities you were using, and their various interactions with each other, and talents. it's not just
>"every caster uses X spell, with a different name and a different school of magic so everything seems different".
it was
>"every caster has different spells with different cooldowns, different cast times, different damage values. certain spells have multiple charges, can give buffs or debuffs, etc

>>383114738
Your post is fucked up and harder to read.

>>383114982
He has good points, dont know how you can get confused.

>>383107845 (2/2)
>>383114738
as for the "people would actually have fun killing those 10 murlocs or quillboars", it'll be fun at first. of course. but then it'll get tedious. that's the issue. when it takes so much effort to go and kill those things, it becomes more tedious than it is fun. especially with precise attacks, it becomes annoying in conjunction with potentially bad netcode or any lag. if blizzard doesnt have a server near your country, then it makes the game virtually unplayable. the people in peru and brazil pay for the game too, and have a right to play it.

overall i dont like combat systems like GW2. they're fun at first, but then they become just as stale if not more stale than tab-targetting. it loses it's wow-factor after a while, and becomes unimpressive. versus WoW, it's simple enough and has the diversity to stay relatively fresh, and not overly complicated to cause burnout off of the combat system itself. i dont know if i'm making sense here. it makes sense in my head

>>383114539
autoattacks arent very relevant for many classes anymore, spare for maybe warrior and rogue (maybe feral druid). especially since they moved towards having combat be a bit more action-oriented and having you attacking more constantly rather than
>you're out of mana. go autoattack the mob and tab out for 20 seconds if you wanna cast again
i understand where you're coming from with this opinion, but they'd need to find some kind of workaround for the class mechanics. warriors would need more rage generation if autos were removed, and rogues would either need faster energy regen (which can break the class altogether and make them op) or use less energy (and do the same exact thing as faster regen). they're RNG mechanics but they're small enough effects that they don't make or break the class. if the RNG kicks in, they're nice little bonuses, if they don't then the classes are just fine without them (albeit not as good)

>>383114738
>reddit spacing
Fuck off

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>>383115601
>i used my enter key to separate my paragraphs and make them look like paragraphs rather than having them literally be one line apart and be even more unreadable
ill be honest, you baited me

>>383114539
>>383115553
Auto's don't need to be deleted. Manual control over them would be the best.

>>383114738
>>"every caster has different spells with different cooldowns, different cast times, different damage values. certain spells have multiple charges, can give buffs or debuffs, etc

This can still be done in a game where your damaging, healing, etc... abilities require aiming. I don't know why whenever somebody brings up non tab target based combat in a mmorpg they directly assume and correlate it with the game having less abilities. Also don't get why people assume that a non tab target based mmo has to be the speed of BDO or fucking DMC. As the OP I imagined it as literally WoW's combat speed but with abilities that you have control over and manual basic attacks. CC, healing, and buffs would still exist.

>>383115843
Something Diablo 3 alike could work when it comes to auto attacks, where your basic attack is used to refill your resources instead of an all-my-skills-are-on-cd button. Nowadays auto attacks are weave'd through normal rotations anyway, may as well make them useful while keeping today's custom.

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I miss MMOs with good economies.
The BDO one is decent at least.

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>>383112721

>thinking that screenshot is from FFXIV

If FFXIV players are retarded, then consider yourself the undisputed champion of retards.

>>383117535
If it's black desert even worse lmao

>>383118538
>lmao
Reddit, I...

>>383118615
>m-muh reddit
only a reddit fag would know what other reddit fags do
you're almost on barneyfag tier. watch yourself.

>>383118934
>complete lack of capitalization and near absence of punctuation
My bad, you're actually from 9gag.

EvE online have best combat in MMO, so no, it's not outdated it's just you, fucking shitter who prefer le action-based combat system instead of objectively superior tactical combat

>>383118615
>...
Man really?

WoW would never function with free aim, too much information for the average player's bandwidth. Try being in a 40 man raid, seeing your latency skyrocket. Now imagine all the extra information clients would need to share.

>>383119459
>objectively superior tactical combat
>implying tab target combat requires any strategy

I really wish people who didn't like mmos would just fuck off and stop trying to 'fix' them.

The MMO I'm looking forward to is over a year away, I hope it doesn't turn out to be shit.

>>383116527
They're not weaved through anything. Autoattacks just happen on their own and basically nothing affects swing timers anymore. They're just used as a timer to proc effects and they're fine at that.

I did like when I cared when they went off but those days being gone doesn't really bother me.

>>383121058
>>383121058
>wanting to fix the boring combat that has plagued the genre for over 10 years means that you hate it

Delusional

>>383119459
>EvE online have best combat in MMO
I watched a ratting video, it's mind numbingly tedious.

>>383123264
>Ratting
EVE's PvE is absolute garbage, small gang/solo PvP is where the fun is.

>>383123773
The complexity of eve combat of EVE is working together with others like a well oiled machiene and countering them using the right hear. The combat itself tops even most hotbar MMOs in shitiness.