do fps/tps need ironsights?

No.

quake 3 has no aiming and i think it's the most fun fps... cs1.6 has very little "aiming" too and it's probably second only to quake 3... likewise UT2004

Ironsights is only good for fps when you can take it slow, like playing a sniper or rather tactical shooters.
Most of the time I play CoD and Titanfall 2 without using ironsight except for some precision shot weapons.
It just feel wrong to use ironsight when you go fast.

Obviously not, they weren't a thing in the genre for a decade and no one cared. It's just a shitty extra step in between you and shooting which only slows games down so that console babbys can keep up with the action.

>can't hold smg still while shooting

I dont understand. wouldn't you have to hold the gun to shoot it?

Iron sights are kind of neat and I think everyone of a certain age looks back at cod4.mw2 with a certain fondness, but lets get real, a lot of shooters that rely on iron sights are glorified hide and seek simulators.

You have things like h2/h3, arguably considered old school arena shooters by today's standards, by no means fast paced games at all, and there was simply no need for it. I honestly believe that the popularization of sights was because everyone was looking to be the cod killer, mimicking elements of the games without considering that the chief asset was actually just the controls coupled with maps and guns that were serviceable.

If we think of it in terms of the "30 second of fun" philosophy, sights just add an extra 1s step that maybe is or isnt necessary. Albeit, I too pondered how the chief aimed a gun with a hump when i played lots of halo, but the guns in those games were so legitimately fun you didn't really worry about the "realism". noob combing somebody from across the map, a well placed rocket, slicing up a triple kill with the sword. I'll put it this way, I can't remember any one particular instance of me killing someone with an m16 with whatever the fuck attachments i had.

tldr, no, no they dont

ET didn't have iron sights and is marginally better than most FPS that do

I like how Killing Floor had no crosshairs and optional ADS, with the latter not actually providing an accuracy boost and slows you down too, so it was mostly there for a zoom option or training wheels when players will hipfire most of the time. KF2 does actually make them more useful, though perk-related boosts related to ADS are optional though SWAT being able to crouch and ADS without a speed malus is hilarious

>>383009273
Looking at the most competitive shooters of all time will tell you the answer is now, Arena shooters like Unreal and Quake, and to a lesser extent the original Halo trilogy never had aim down sights style zooming. Even Counter-strike still uses tried and true cross hair aiming, no iron sights at all even though its more realistic and tactical.

>>383009273
Sounds like your friend doesnt like sci-fi in general, or video games.
No iron sights is a good thing, why the hell would I play a game where the primary aiming mode slows you to a crawl? For as slow as halo was its action was still just as intense than any cod.
I also firmly believe energy shields added more nuance to the games combat and newer ones killed that.

If your friend doesnt like the way halo does those things because they "arent realistc" then he should go look at what exosuits and a modern high tech prosthetic can do.
Because all the choices in halos gameplay fit the story pretty damn well unlike cod where half the plot is micheal bay tier shit that would never work.

>>383009273
>do fps/tps need ironsights?

No.

>>383013413
Dont forget overwatch.

Turns out your friend doesnt like things that are fun. Only mature and realistic probably.

>>383014074
yeah i guess you could count both TF2 and OW, though i consider both of those pretty casual

I don't think iron sights on automatic affected Halo that badly, if anything it just gave ARs and the like a little extra range. Everyone always cites how old Halo only had zoom on precision weapons but they ignore that the AR and SMG were shit weapons back then, awful rng bullet hoses. I don't know how anyone could stand those garbage weapon they only aided the BR meta which is finally fucking dead god bless 343

>>383014821
AR and SMG were fine if you werent a retard trying to snipe across valhalla with them.

Halo has small maps as well and paired with any energy weapon they are suddenly many times as dangerous

>>383015071
They had extremely limited range and practically became obsolete as soon as you picked up a precision weapon in almost every encounter, Bungie admitted to SMG starts being a mistake in 2 because everything you said just didn't compensate for how powerful precision weapons are and SMG starts are awful on the majority of maps. Halo 3 only slightly mitigated it by nerfing the BR with a projectile and rng, which everyone hated. Dual wielding was a sloppy way to balance them which ended up cutting their effectiveness in half unless you had 2, which also meant having In extreme close quarters they're fine but still dumb weapons, now without dual wielding you have the full potential in one and they're much more potent and fun for it. There is no skill involved with the classic bungie automatics beyond just being close enough to secure a kill you hold down the trigger until whatever you're firing at dies. Being able to control the recoil didn't hurt their effectiveness up close and gave them a much needed boost to uniqueness besides being bullet hoses.
>paired with any energy weapon
This applies even more with precision weapons because headshots exist.

>>383015071
one thing i really like about bungie's design with Halo and Destiny is the fact that precision weapons beat full auto weapons at pretty much every range if you're not fucking up. Full auto weapons are still there for beginners, but you are rewarded for learning to use the more skilled weapons.

>>383009273
I'd say it depend on the context

I like nu-wolfenstein approach where you could etheir iron sight if you wanted to play it slow you are or going balls out dial wielding semi auto shotguns

Your friend just sounds retarded. ADS has its place in games like Arma or Squad but has no place in games like Quake, Tribes, or UT.

I had a friend like that once. Hated arena shooters and halo because of the ads thing, hated stuff like borderlands because it was "cartoony". Instead of shitting on his opinion, i sat down and played some of these games with him and taught him that its alright to like different things. He used to hate rpgs and now bloodborne is one of his favorite games. He still pisses me off though , now all he plays is destiny.

ADS is the best way to make a potentially fun game slow and tedious.

>>383019776
you can only do so much anon

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12KB, 124x213px

>>383009273
>HUD in your super advanced power armor can keep track of any old grenades and guns you pick up off the ground
>it's too much of a stretch that it also allows you to aim without using tradition sights

You friend sounds like a real arbitrary dumbass

>muh zoom
you'd be dead before you could even get off a zoomed in shot against any ranged weapon

>>383022975
you know what rustles my jimmies in halo lore? how in the hell does a standard smg fire so insane that a spartan (who has super strength and high tech armor) has that much recoil? how does a normal marine use it without it flying out of their hands?

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446KB, 1400x797px

>>383009273
Pic related had no iron sights and it is literally 125x better than any game with iron sights

>>383023364
Ludonarrative Dissonance for the most part. Anyone that complains about the SMG isn't really paying attention to the rest of it, as there's no real reason for the ODSTs to be able to haul around the miniguns and plasma sentries that they do in Halo 3: ODST, and the Spartan Laser is supposed to be around 50lbs but Muhreens can still haul it around for days like nothing.