Is the MMORPG genre dead?

>>382976139
Not dead, just horribly stagnant, so I guess if you wanted to keep the metaphor you could say it's in a coma.

Kind of. The action bar, do quests, and then end game content is on its final threads. Everyone has realized that they don't really want to play with a lot of other people, it doesn't really do anything for RPGs.

The MMO has shifted to phone games where you do some stupid tapping and then you damage someone's base or something. Most of the time all you do is tap a few things and then close your phone and go back to whatever you were doing, as you wait on time gates.

>>382976139
Timeatamp this statement.

The first USER FRIENDLY CONSOLE VR mmo will be the next big thing.

I got no friends!
What MMORPG should I play to make friends I'm so damn lonely fuck

Blizzard saw the success of EQ and thought, "What if we took EQ and made it completely soloable and extremely casual?".

Blizzard then released World of Warcraft to great success enticing people who normally couldn't dedicate enough time to MMOs before it.

The issue here is that World of Warcraft broke all the rules of what makes MMOs MMOs.
>No need for player interaction
>Extensive use of built-in fast travel (not player run)
>No penalty upon dying
>Monsters aren't difficult to kill nor pose any danger
And it only got worse from there as the game went on..
>Cross server content
>Dungeon finder
>Portals in every major city to every major city
>Flying mounts

WoW turned modern "MMOs" into Facebook/MSN/Myspace.

Now every other AAA publisher saw what Blizzard did and wanted to make a quick buck as well. So for the next 10 years we got these HUGE budget WoW clones expecting to build up the same subscription numbers as Blizzard. Well it turns out that the target audience wasn't as big as these companies expected and almost every single one of these games crashed and burned.

Meanwhile anyone still playing MMOs before WoW are growing up. They don't have 8 hours a day to put into FFXI/EQ/DaoC/etc. They start playing WoW/WoW-clones as well. Younger people have no idea what MMOs were before WoW and play WoW-clones as their "first" MMOs.

We'll never get another true AAA MMO, but that's okay. There are some niche games coming from veteran developers who worked on the classics. Pantheon, Ashes of Creation, Camelot Unchained, etc. And bigger publishers are starting to get more experimental, but unfortunately still playing it too safe with how casual the games are. We should be happy with that. In the meanwhile, private servers like project99 are extremely populated and great fun.

It could be a while, but there'll be a return of true MMOs.

mmorpg genre just started, pleb

stay eagre

>>382976614
Everquest fags are the worst.

>>382976571
i watched sword art online, too

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Not quite. MMOs have been in a rut for a while, so we're now in an experimental era where people are trying new shit to change the formula. The biggest example is Crowfall, with its temporary campaigns and whatnot.

We're also in an era where the console MMO is finally taken seriously. Destiny and Final Fantasy XIV are both very big deals, boasting strong and dedicated communitites. Destiny 2 is right around the corner, and Anthem will be coming next year to challenge it.

People have given up trying to copy World of Warcraft's formula. Now the genre is looking for the next big thing.

Still waiting for Pantheon to hit open beta.

>>382976614
>What if we took EQ and made it completely soloable and extremely casual?
It wasn't like that at first whatsoever, fag. Today it is, though.

>>382976614
>"What if we took EQ and made it completely soloable and extremely casual?".
That is a gross oversimplification. But it is correct that World of Warcraft broke down barriers by making things not nearly as obtuse or punishing as they used to be. Character generation was greatly simplified; quests are clearly labeled and guide you from point A to point B; you don't lose experience or gear when you die; learning new skills is as easy as visiting a vendor, apart from the occasional class quest to pick up a new ability.

WoW broke down barriers in ways that were never seen before and changed the nature of the genre forever. It's a major part of why WoW was lightning in a bottle and remains the most successful MMO of all time.

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>>382976139
hope so

>>382976139
turn off whatever shitty sweetfx bullshit is running on the screenshot

>>382979796

Crowfall is the PvP only one, right?

Bunch of MMOs are doing that right now, which I fucking hate, because I dont like MMO PvP.

>>382976139
It was never alive in the first place, the entire industry just copypasted WoW and wondered why people weren't playing their games instead of it.

>>382979796
Destiny is a borderlands clone, and borderlands is a diablo clone but as a first person shooter. I'd say we've regressed.

Its not really dead.

But modern developers have forgotten what makes MMOs good in the first place so the genre has been slowly devolving into always online action games, rather then massively multiplayer games.

>>382980394
Crowfall is the one where you join a temporary campaign, play through the events in the world before it is eventually completely destroyed, then do it all again in a new world. It's the one that calls itself a "throne war simulator."

>>382979918
No, it was when compared with EQ, That's is why it got so popular.

>>382976614
>no need for player interaction
Lol no

Try pulling more then one mob at a time in vanilla, try sharing quest mobs that take 5 minutes to respawn, try doing elite quests

The only reliable way to get gear was crafting and dungeons, or the AH, the only way to get money to use the AH was to sell shit on the AH, and dungeon runs were the best chance of getting greens for anyone.

I will agree that WOW turned MMOs into the shit we got now, but I would blame WOW's obtuse expansions, but not the initial game, which was pretty much GOAT of the genre, with a smooth leveling system that was fun, engaging, while still being challenging enough that you'd willingly do quests with other people.

Its when they started using automated systems, rather then game design to get people to play together that they fucked up.

Id say the 2 biggest flaws WOW brought to the genre was daily quests and linear, 'cinematic' progression, which didn't really become a thing until wrath and cataclysm.

>>382980518
Bungie never explicitly calls Destiny an MMO, but it's very clearly an MMO. You meet new people, you gain loot and new skills, you go through all kinds of content (including raids), and you can partake in either PvE or PvP.

>>382980850
And EQ had a ton of problems, a ton of problems that WOW fixed.

WOW created a ton of problems on its own though, specifically how dungeon content revolves entirely around private instances.

>>382980606

I feel like that wont hold up.

I think people like having a world they can learn about, and having it expanded on. Plus, how long can a company continually pump out new worlds before the creative well runs dry?

>>382976571
>console
>MMO

Yes because that never has any severe limitations or anything lol

>>382980862
how is the "grind part"??
like you reach max level, and besides raids, can you grind shit, and become stronger or something? Can I go to some dungeon, or mission by myself and grind for weeks and become stronger? or is all locked behind daily/weekly progression with stupid lockouts? like FFXIV/WOW and all the other clones.

>>382980862
Its not an MMO

MMOs aren't about grinding and looting, thats the RPG genre you're thinking of.

MMOs is about players sharing the same play space, and cooperating, and competing over shit.

It has simply evolved from being a genre to being a feature.

>>382976139
I hope so.
RPGs are a stale and shit genre.
MMOGs are far superior. See Eve Online/SWG.

gw1 hd when

>>382980936
>I think people like having a world they can learn about, and having it expanded on.
Which is why there's an overarching multiverse everything takes place in, which has its own lore and mythos. You reside outside all these worlds. You choose the campaign you want, go in, play it, and when it's done, you go back to your domain and eventually do it all again.

>>382981075
MMOs have always been a feature.

Or are we forgetting that multiplayer dungeon crawlers like neverwinter nights didn't exist before ultima online and EQ?

I think thats a genre that should just return, without MMO being tacked onto it.

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Theres nothing massively multiplayer about modern MMOs

Bungie states that their game isn't an MMO its a "Shared world shooter" and thats what most modern mmos are "Shared world RPGs"

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>>382981041
>MMOs is about players sharing the same play space, and cooperating, and competing over shit.
Sounds about right.

Wildstar probably would have revived the MMO genre had the developers not gone with 40 man, spent another year or two doing QA, and chosen a better publisher than fucking NCsoft. Makes me sad still. Hell, had all of their devs not jumped shipped and actually fixed the problems the game would probably be alive and well today.

>>382981370
WildStar would've been a contender, but it shit the bed way too hard at launch, and it never recovered.

>>382980980
Stormblood is a console MMO and is one of the most popular on the market and ESO has done exceeding well on consoles.

ESO WoW FF, and GW1 are the only four that remotely matter. One of them is dead. One of them is dying. Another is weeb trash. The remainder is a glorified single player game with an AH. So yes. It is dead.

>>382981370
I don't even want to know why they though 40 mans were a good idea.

If they wanted there to be a solid, great end game scene restricting group size seemed to have been the most retarded thing they could have done.

I can't wait for Pantheon, unrestricted group sizes, no instancing, shit will be like EQ, where you just log in and there is always a group doing something somewhere to hang out.

>>382981370
Wildstar failed because of its setting, dummy. It entices very few players to keep playing.

guild wars 2 anyone?

>>382981519
>I don't even want to know why they though 40 mans were a good idea.
They thought other people thought it was a good idea.

>We will never get EVE but not in space or with spreadsheets.

>>382981531
I actually thought the setting and presentation was one of its strongest features.

>>382981041
>about players sharing the same play space, and cooperating, and competing over shit.
That can be done at smaller scales, too anon. Some servers host 16 players. Some servers host 16 thousand players.

>>382981431
>wildstar
>we're going to make an mmo where you need half a brain to succeed
That was their first mistake.

>>382981637
The introduction felt like I was playing in Nickelodeon's ToonTown or some shit.

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>>382981598
Yeah, except it isn't.

The reason why 40 mans intially worked very well in WOW was because they were fucking easy.

Also there was way more non-raid content propping up the end game back then, dungeons were 5x bigger then the dungeons we have now, with quests that would take hours, and maybe days to complete.

I always fucking facepalm when I try a new MMO and their dungeon content emulates modern WOW's linear boss grinds then vanilla's large dungeon crawls.

>>382981607
There will never be an RPG without spreadsheets.

>>382981607
Albion Online only launches next month and it is that

>>382980980
>severe limitations
Like what?

FFXIV and XI
Elder Scrolls Online
Neverwinter

>>382981714
>ToonTown
you'd best not be talking shit about toontown nigga

>>382976139
Kinda, nobody wants to invest in MMOs anymore.
Its all about Mobile games now.

>>382976614

It amazes me how deluded this sounds.

>>382976614
more like the EQ players got tired of it's already antiquated bullshit and endgame and wanted greener pastures

I guess you're going to ignore how the most prolific EQ raiders were tapped by Blizzard themselves to help consult on WoW. Like all of the management from Fires of Heaven got involved, they toured the offices and wrote about it on their guild page.

You fake nostalgia fags are the worst, and probably more harm to the scene than the "casual" crowd you often malign

>>382981714
Quit with the hyperbole, dumbass.

>>382981757
there are some annoying graphical and customization restrictions in FFXIV that are often said to be the result of console limitations, but yeah it runs surprisingly well considering what it is

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>>382981607

> working on it

>>382981531
>Wildstar failed because of its setting

said literally no one ever

what you said just made my head spin, and I'm not even remotely defending Wildstar here

>>382981757
FFXIV has to load in between every zone because of console limitations not to mention it looks way fucking worse graphically compared to 1.0 because they had to compress all the textures to absolute garbage resolution for consoles

>>382976139
When they finally change MMORPG's from boring grind-fests filled with generic, recycled designs, and turn them into genuinely interesting and fun party/multiplayer experiences, then I'll reconsider it.

Last MMORPG I played was Champions Online.

>>382981731
>that fucking shopping list just to be able to fucking raid
what were they thinking?

>>382981731
Wildstar proves that nobody fucking liked attunement bullshit no matter what nostalgia fags say. Attunement was always a load of tedious garbage

>>382982018
People like to look at that pick and go LOL WOW HOW DID THEY THINK THAT WAS OKAY?! but if you actually played it you'd know it wasn't half as bad as you think.

>>382982018
>M-MUH HARDCORE PLAYERS
aka "people who do not give a single fuck about game"

>>382982018
It wasn't that bad, most of it was stuff you did at 50 anyways.

The problem again boiled down to raid size. Very few if at all any guilds had 40 reliable players every night and progress was often halted to spend the time to attune new members.

It didn't help that the game's population became very volatile very quickly after release, so the issue just compounded over time until they fixed it.

>>382982114
>do dailies for about 2-4 days depending on if you have any boosts
>do some ezpz quests
>do vet adventures and dungeons LIKE YOU FUCKING SHOULD BE DOING ANYWAY
>join a world boss train
Wow, so hard and tedious.

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>>382982114
Attunements were fine in vanilla
>Do quest
>complete quest
>attuned

IT was BC era that got fucking stupid, specifically when you needed to kill the two hardest bosses in T5 which were harder then anything T6 had to offer.

>>382982123
Most importantly, there are always things to do.
You log in on your max level character, and you have something to do. You have purpose to play.

Fuck it, I wish grinding made a return, that way I have reason to log in, because else I just quit the game when I get to a point of only doing raids once per week.

>>382981879
That should go away, now that the PS3 has been dropped. I'm just worried that my laptop-tier display will become even more cluttered with stuff. It was bad enough in the 28-man raid, I don't want that to become the norm for me.

>>382981531
Wildstar failed because its open beta had 3000 latency, and its release date condition wasn't much better.
Also its first dozen levels the combat was SO BORING, disgusting simple, easy and boring. Less dangerous and involved than modern WoW early levels.

>>382982438
>dude early game mmo is boring
what a shocker

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Wildstar the game that praised itself for having aoe markers

>>382982508
>dude just keep slogging through the dullest experience of your life, it gets good eventually

Can't launch a MMO like that these days.

>>382982508
>he was never lured in by Age of Conan's Tortage
underage >>>/out/

Mmorpgs are on lifesupport

Thank blizzard for americanizing the genre
Thank blizzard for its bastard child named dota and its extra chromosome brother LoL which sundered a good amount of potential MMO players

>>382982438
that and the hilariously steep difficulty spike that players hit when they got to 20-ish and could do Stormtalon

forums were just filled with pages and pages of people complaining about how a simple interupt-rotation was slamming their boipussies into submission

people would be so offended at the suggestion to actually communicate in a pub dungeon, like oh my god, how dare you

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>>382982508
Then how did the early game for this manage to be fun?

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>tfw wildstar ruined all other mmos for you
I'm playing ffxiv now, and it's really polished, but man do I wish it was half as fun to play as wildstar is.

>>382982508
Thats the problem with all modern MMOs.

One of the things even vanilla WOW got right was giving players shit to do from the get go
>I need gear, better pick up a crafting profession
>I need gold, better do some quests
>I need better gear, gotta do some dungeons
>elite quests, oh better get some friends

There was more thought imput then, post-cataclysm leveling is abysmally boring, its a bunch of shitty cinematic questlines that can be facerolled.

>>382982018
To be fair, the list has been trimmed down massively since then. That was the OLD attunement you're looking at.

>>382982594
>haha dude these telegraphs are like baby mode
>can't even clear vet content without exploiting
Even now to this day after fucktons of power creep, people still fear the last boss of skullcano. That fight is fucking beautiful.

>>382982594
Wildstar has a good combat system though

It's one thing if AOE markers are thrown into an MMO as an afterthought. Wildstar's system was entirely built around it though and for the most part it worked.

Like it was actually novel that different classes were defined by the common shape of their aoe indicators. Take the healers for example; Spellslinger was usually long and narrow, Medic was short and blocky, Esper was largely radial.

>>382976614
Bunch of this applies to retail but certainly not vanilla so I'm guessing you're just a retard who tries to fit in and hasn't played either game.

>>382982842
I genuinely feel bad for the people who missed out on old attunement and dungeon progression. Around drop 4 was the best time to play the game.

MMOs need more interesting early game combat, and more non combat content at max level. Minigames, involved crafting and gathering, treasure hunts, collections, housing etc. I thought Wildstar's secondary classes would have been this, but I don't think they went far enough. That's the killer for most MMOs now, they're so expensive people don't have the balls to really go for something different. Just look at the Guild Wars 2 manifesto compared to what it ended up as.

>>382983057
>and more non combat content at max level. Minigames, involved crafting and gathering, treasure hunts, collections, housing etc.
sounds like an exact description of XIV

>>382983057
What mmos need is to make all content relevant at all levels.
>have a massive open world
>everyone just sits in their capital cities and queues for a fraction of the game's content with the group finder.

>>382983127
They need to revive the golden saucer somehow. I personally spend a shitload of time there since I collect TT cards, but its pretty barren most of the time. The Make It Rain event was hella fun because the Saucer was fucking packed at all hours of the day.

>>382981370
The combat is awful and the aesthetics of the game are fucking hideous. More games should strive to bring us something like BDO or TERA from combat perspective instead of the same rehashed garbage. It's amazing how gooks can do gameplay well but fail at literally every single other thing that makes MMOs fun. It's fucking mindblowing.

>>382983057
Did GW2 really fail on it's manifesto though? They always said from the beginning that it was avoiding the gear treadmill and that all progression would be largely horizontal, focusing on story.

I think a lot of the disappointment stemming after it's release came from unrealistic expectations and people coming from GW1. GW1 it definitely is not.

>>382983383
>More games should strive to bring us something like BDO
Ha Ha, fuck off.

Wildstar's combat shits on black desert's because the game is actually built around it.

>>382983383
I'm a huge fan of Tera combat but I gotta stop you with BDO. In no way is that game's combat suited for any sort of engaging group play.

So, should i give Tree of savior a go this summer?

>>382982114
I play vanilla even right now and the attunements aren't that bad really. TBC it was slightly sillier and I think they went overboard, so do most other people who played at the time I'm sure.

Attunements are nice because it's an extra world building thing which feels nice to complete as long as it's not incredibly overblown.

>>382983613
>Focusing on story
And this is why the failed.

MMOs aren't about telling a story, its about getting the players to earn their own story.

>>382983963
I mean, says you. I think there can be both. Saying that's the only way an MMO can tell a story is unnecessarily restricting.

GW2 isn't really doing terrible either, it's just entirely different at endgame. It's made for a specific crowd at this point.

And I say this as someone who isn't a huge fan of GW2.

>>382981014
Hello? can someone answer this?

also would like to know how necessary is the DLC for destiny

>>382983383

Combat is the literal least important thing to a good mmo

>>382983715
>>382983636
The combat is fun, that's all that matters to me. It could be polished to be something better for group content or whatever but I enjoyed every moment of leveling my gook swordwoman.

>>382981498
GW1 is Dead
WoW is Dying
FF is Weeb Trash
ESO glorified SP game with AH
Did i win????????

I wouldn't say dead, but the golden era is definitely long gone. The main part of the audience is mostly split between a handful of MMORPGs, and the rest appeal to very niche groups that are neither growing nor dying

>>382984187
>The combat is fun
Tell me what's fun about pulling a field of mobs and spamming aoe until they're all dead?

>>382984159
Maybe if you live in the fucking 2005. What you will be doing most of the time in MMO should be major focus of development, not a fucking afterthought like it seems to be to bunch of western developers right now.

>>382984187
>It could be polished to be something better for group content or whatever

It really can't. The game is designed around the idea that you'll be farming solo most of the time. There are zero class roles and party synergy. World bosses are a clusterfuck.

The combat is fun for sure, but I don't wan't other games to emulate it for that reason.

I will agree again that Tera has a golden combat system blocked behind a shit game.

>>382983057
Wildstar has second classes? woa I missed that

how good/bad is it? did they raise the level cap?

>>382983057
I feel like a dumbass for bringing it up, but I think that RuneScape's minigames and quests are surprisingly involved for what the game is, and I think I might sincerely prefer it if more MMOs had a point-and-click adventure game slant to the quests. It's a huge shame that the world doesn't feel particularly great to get around in - if it did, I think I might enjoy exploring and solving quests a lot more.

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>>382981819
Eh, only two people from Legacy of Steel got recruited into Blizzard. Actually, I think it was only Kaplan himself as the other guy (forget who) might've already been a Blizz employee at the time iirc.

>more like the EQ players got tired of it's already antiquated bullshit and endgame and wanted greener pastures

Most EQ players don't even care about the end game. It's only like a tiny fraction of players, about 0.1%, who ever did raiding. EQ had so much more to offer. Hell, even getting to max level was a goal in itself for the majority of players. And there are still lots of EQ players who still play EQ, myself included. The game still offers an experience that is hard to find elsewhere. WoW was a good and worthy replacement all up until Cataclysm, but when that expac hit I went right back to EQ.

>>382984438
He means the path system.

>>382984278
How is that different from any other MMO? The freedom of movement, feedback you get from using your abilities felt really satisfying. I mean don't get me wrong, it's no TERA but it was decent. Ideally I'd want something like TERA which I pretty much consider the pinnacle of (swords and magic etc) MMO combat. No other "real" MMO has come even close to feeling the same to me.

>>382984384
I was talking of doing something similar, not literally coopypasting BDO combat.

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I just want MH but in MMO form with an open world to shit about and meet new peeps.

Make the HH, BG, HBG and Bow more capable or healing and providing boosts.

Have the dungeons be quests.

Have random monsters attack cities and towns in the overworld and have it be one of those "defeat within this time frame" and everyone can chip in.

I know it's all wishful thinking and I'm stupid from straying too much from the RPG formula but I'm so tired of MMOs becoming nothing but a loop of attacks.

also I'm very sleepy, sorry for rambling

>>382984298
The point of an mmo is to engage with it on a different level than "oh man this combat is fun". All the progression, planning, social and shared experience aspects are way more important else you'd just play singleplayer games with the combat you like instead.

>>382976607
Runescape

Pokemon VR mmo will save the genre, your heard it here first.

Screencap it

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I only play MMOs these days to ERP. I am very into findom and the only healthy way to do this fetish is to do it through MMOs, where real money isn't being exchanged.

>>382984534
I agree with you but it's worth noting I wasn't just talking about who ended up getting careers out of it. The WoW team tapped several high-end guilds and roped them into alpha tests very early on.

>>382984601
No shit, but when you make a game in 2017 you need to have engaging gameplay on top of all the other stuff.

>>382984552
>How is that different from any other MMO?
Other mmos usually have more specialized content along with open world mob killing to make me use my abilities more thoughtfully, and with other people.

>>382984554
I am so glad that nobody at Capcom is listening to you.
>Guys I came up with the best idea for a game ever! It's your favorite game... BUT AN MMO!!! :D
This has never fucking worked.
>Make the HH, BG, HBG and Bow more capable or healing and providing boosts.
Nope Nope Nope Nope Nope Nope. Way too many fucking people try to play the hunting horn as a fucking healing class. They sit in the back like retards and use their GIGANTIC FUCKING WEAPON THAT DOES MASSIVE DAMAGE to NOT DO MASSIVE DAMAGE AND HIT THE FUCKING MONSTER. An MMO does not need a holy trinity, and deal fucking god, Monster Hunter sure as fuck doesn't need it either.

Fuck you.

>>382984601
not really. I am not gonna name names because people will cry but I had a better time playing through the solo story quest in a recent MMO then i did in the top rated rpg that was supposed to be so good.

most mmo's feel like theyre built around being an mmo first, and having fun second

>>382984798
Only if you want the dark souls of mmos crowd.

>>382984159
Says you. Most people who play Destiny say one of the only things it consistently gets right is the gunplay. I guarantee you people wouldn't have stuck around for as long as they did with that game if it didn't play clean as fuck.

>>382984964
I 100% agree with this. Even if the MMO has nothing to gain by wasting your time, it will still attempt to waste your time.

Apparently it's easier to make a game TRICK you into thinking you're having fun and continuing playing instead of making a fun game that makes you want to keep playing because it's fun.

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>>382984979

>>382984942
Okay then I think an Action MMO with RPG elements sprinkled in, with a heavy focus on defeating giant monsters would be nice.

You're right about the HH, I don't understand how people do that, it feels so good hitting the monster while playing your tunes.

I just want Frontier with an open world and no tonfas.

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I just want someone to take Dragon Nest's combat and put it in an actual good MMO.

MMORPGs have 3 general issues:
1. Lack of good RPG elements
2. Shitty combat systems
3. Lack of content

>Its another "action combat' MMO thread
Do I really need to tell you why this still won't be a thing until everyone in the world has a latancy connection of sub 10ms?

>>382976607
mmos isnt how you makes but i guess you can meet people.

would be better if you just play games and run into other people playing the same games you play

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>>382984757
>findom
Who broke you, anon? Who fucked your cranium?
I can get femdom, I can get every kind of dom under the sun but what the everloving fuck is wrong with you if you get off to giving people your money? They don't even do anything for you jesus christ you're making my inner jew cry out in pain

>>382984205
ESO wins by default in that case.

>>382985251
Who gives a fuck about the rest of the world? lmao

>>382985223
>lack of content
no matter how much content you add, people will poop sock in a month and quit

if WoW and FFXIV the behemoths of AAA mmos can't deliver enough content, then no one can, no one is near the amount of their resources and staff.

Moonlight Blade has some sort of dynamic random quests, but we're never getting that in the west.

>>382976607
NOT Modern "mmo"s
Over time the genre shifted and removed the focus on social interaction because people cried too much about having to group up to do things in a fucking mmo. Now you have singleplayer lobby based games masquerading as mmo's.
Play an old version of wow in a private server.
Play old runescape or something.

Pokemon Go is slowly turning into a solid MMO after the Raid update. Would be cool if they added questing and dungeons.

>>382976614
by your standards
BDO would be the tightest shit out cause it features none of that streamlining

>>382985374
If Blizzard actually put 25% of money they got from WoW back into the game, they would have enough content to keep everyone happy.

There will never be another good MMO because of MOBA's

MOBA's have single-handedlymanaged to casualize an entire generation of PC players. Ruining both MMO's and RTS's for everyone else.

>>382985374
>we're never getting that in the west.
They've said they want to release it in the west, but that's it.

>>382985559
You think they're still gonna release it after Revo flopped?

ESO is the only one I can keep interest in for long term. I've been playing it on and off since One Tam. It's not perfect, but I've tried everything else and can't make anything else stick personally.

>standard tab target RPG
Mash buttons in repetition forever.

>Action combat RPG
Mash left click and buttons, every attack is an AoE or cone attack.

>Non-standard RPG combat
Always wonky, half finished, and too hard for non-autists to get into so the games are dead.

>Every single MMO
Get to max level before the "real game" actually starts, the "real game" is just running dungeons for gear so you can run dungeons faster for gear so you can run dungeons faster for gear.

>An MMO that would actually be fun
No classes, proper action combat that works more like a single player action game and less like an MMO, player made cities, player made quests, player driven everything.

None of this "We made a really boring single player RPG and put it online, pay us more." like StarWars TOR, and Black Desert.

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I'll keep it simple, my top massively multiplayer game would be something like this:
>Social Interaction encouraged, should be able to talk with randoms that you meet.
>Takes place on a 2D play space, like a platformer maybe??
>Skill based combat, maybe combos. Could have RPG elements, but would prefer if everything was skill/execution based.

>>382985223
I wouldn't say a lack of content, I would say that the general consumption of content in MMOs is usually done very fucking poorly.

Everyone focuses on the dungeon/raid content and gives players abitrary 'best in slot' that these days are easily known and spoiled by the game itself. (Hey if you grind this rep/point system enough you get this big glowing golden dong of damage!)

I think EVE does it right, your progression as a player is the majority of the content, finding your way through EVE's universe, through its various systems, and figuring out what you like to do the most for fun has way -way- more repetitive, yet fun consumption then the way traditional MMOs do, such as scamming corps after months of climbing the power ladder, building an empire of other players to wage war against a guy who ganked you a few times too many,and the various other bullshit fun stuff that the community generates itself, rather then arbitrary questlines that are only good once, and then becomes boring and repetitive.

I mean when I was playing Vanilla, I leveled traditionally the first two characters I played, but when I leveled my warrior I actually spent most of my time leveling my alchemy and cooking and found myself leveling way faster then questing simply because of how many mobs I had to kill for meat/cloth/elements, I mean I spent 40-45 grinding groms blood in the demon infested zones in desolace.

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>>382985251
>it's another third worlder with shit grammar giving out his shit opinions on things he has no clue about episode

>>382985598
Are they both from the same publisher or something? Because revelation and moonlight are different mmos.

>>382976139
It might as well be

I played BDO the other day and after 2 days I gave up on it because the content was so limited, the questing was the same as quests from 10 years ago and the world itself felt lifeless. It's a shame because the combat itself was kind of cool

I'd really like it if there was an MMO that took the best parts of rift, aion, WoW, runescape, BDO, GW2 and put them all together with no bullshit cash shop non-sense but that's not going to happen.

Every time I try a new MMO and the first 10 hours is just me going around facerolling mobs solo going from quest hub to quest hub I lose interest and drop the game because I don't want to do that shit for 50 - 200 hours before I find out the end-game is the same boring stuff I've done before. Even something simple like invasions from rift or those random events from GW2 help to spice things up but most MMOs don't even have anything like this, you just go from area to area killing shit that's just standing around waiting to die just to progress to the end game which is grinding dailies and doing instances.

>>382984483
I spent so much time playing minigames like castle wars and pest control it was insane. Also I spent a lot of time on that minigame where 2 teams had to brew beer and you could fuck with opposing team by burning their machines, there was also that smelting minigame in the dwarf city. Runescape hit the nail on the head with their minigames, they had combat based PvP, non-combat PvP, co-op PvE and probably other stuff I forgot or never experienced because I quit. New MMOs are embarrassingly bare bones when it comes to that kind of content, all you do is kill shit, gather shit or talk to NPCs, that's it. I haven't played much of WoW and I never played FFXIV so I'm not directly criticizing those but games like ESO and wildstar were really disappointing considering they were some of the newest MMOs around and they failed to deliver what MMOs 5-10 years older did.

>>382985628
>no classes

yeah I want bland homogenised shit too

>>382985336
he wants to be the findom.

>>382985639
EVE has a completely different model, it's a sandbox, so it's the developers aren't making content, they're making context that players fill with their own preferred content.

>>382985921
Star Wars Galaxy's didn't have classes, nigga, and everyone loves that.

>>382985921
>Pick whatever weapon and skills you want
>Bland
Yeah because having yourself locked to a class with one weapon option and the same boring skills as every single other person that plays that class is so much fun.

>>382985374
>dynamic random quests
Like, Skyrim-style dynamic quests?

>>382985628
for whatever reason people just don't want to make that game. EVE has been out over a decade and it works. You could make a much better game even with a totally different genre even if it required instancing but everyone just seems to pussy to do it for whatever reason.

>>382986017
People will gravitate to the same cookie cutter builds.

>>382976607
FFXIV is still really active, and there's plenty of free companies (like guilds) that will take anyone. Usually there's a core group of like 5-20 people that spend all day shitposting and chatting on their FC's discord, so it's fairly easy to become "one of the crew" if you just hang around for a month or two. As with any friend group, your continued presence means more than any of your actually positive qualities. Friendships are easy to grow with time and consistency, and difficult to develop with anything else.

>>382985783
Tried ESO? I leveled by walking around and gathering skillpoints, killing bosses, and exploring whatever cave I felt like. It didn't take that long to hit 50, either.

>>382976139
MMOs don't work in an era where people will pay a subscription just to watch a guy play video games, or pay hundreds of dollars for cosmetics in a phone game. They require big budgets to succeed, and even then success is rare because gaming has been pigeonholed by e-sports like LoL. Basically, they require a large amount of money for a very risky venture, compared to the alternatives these days that require very little money and can provide as much as or more money than an MMO. In almost every sense the production costs of MMOs are contradictory to the way the industry is now.

Even ignoring the production costs, people just don't care about MMO-style gameplay anymore. Nobody wants to sit there and grind for a week to get to level 30 when they can just log on their biggest meme game of the month and get their stimulation from that.

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>>382985960
the whole fucking idea that this feitsh exists, that it's an actual thing people do and fucking shit just fucks me up man it just fucks my headbrain so hard it makes it hard to think it's so retarded
it's like forbidden knowledge that drives you insane but it makes me STUPIDER each nanosecond i spend contemplating it
i feel myself regressing into some sort of horrible mindless man-ape as we speak
buzz me, mulatto

>>382986050
MMOs are expensive to develop, no company wants to front the millions it costs to develop a MMORPG nowadays unless it follows the WoW formula. Their reasoning is if you copy a successful MMO, yours will be successful too. It doesn't work that way though.

>>382986017
You're literally advocating for exactly the same thing except there's only one class.

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>>382986147
No, I agree with you famalam. It's one of those things I just odn't get.

>>382986139
I think the WoW-formula is what kills things. An MMO with partying up, an open world, quests, and loot like Diablo or POE could hook me for life. I'm actually hoping Lost Ark turns out good. I don't get hype for shit because it's stupid and always disappointing, but I can't help it this time.

>>382986203
yeah for a AAA quality title sure. But you could even proof of concept it as a browser based game and people don't even do that.

>tfw I always end up writing way too much when I post in threads about MMOs
I only meant to post a few lines

>>382985783
Also I forgot to say runescape's minigames gave tangible rewards like XP or outfits which really helped make them relevant. I went around wearing a sailor outfit that few people had because the minigame was pretty obscure, you had to go into some weird jungle just to play it and there was no nearby place to teleport and no queue you transport you to it from anywhere in the world.

>>382986114
I did during the beta and a free weekend but I didn't get that far into it because I couldn't really get into the combat. I promised myself to try it again next time it goes on sale but haven't gotten back to it.

>>382986321
>Korean

it's shit

>>382976139

As dead as their physics-less environments

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What would be the perfect mmo for a mmo autist like the good ole days anyway? Just modern mmos that dont treat you like an idiot or what? All mmos are essentially chorefests, whether hardcore or casual. I can't really understand why you guys say you miss the old days when it was only great cause mmos were still new to you and you had a ton of time to waste in them while your childishness was still fresh.

I came from a time when MUDs were a thing. But even I can tell you that such gameplay is only fun to a small number of people. Unfortunately, the time of small mmos have been over for a while, so you'll never have niche mmos like that take off. Which should be the point of it all. Why do you want a "massive" multiplayer again to begin with? A 100 or less player one would be ten times better.

>>382986383
Can't promise you'll like it, but the combat isn't the same now as it was then. It's still the weakest of the big action MMOs, but it has rotations complicated enough to keep you involved, and animation cancelling takes some skill, I guess.

It's miles above tab target, but I would not put ESO's combat at BDO's level. Everything else is miles better, though. The PVP is actually fun now that everyone is not an immortal god.

>>382986503
I enjoy mass combat games like PS2 or EVE.

>>382986503
The vast majority of "massive" multiplayer online games are 100 or less players anyways.
FFXIV hardcore raids are 8 people.

>>382976571
>he thinks consoles have a place in the future
it will be just pcs and phones

>>382986604
FF14 is a casual of casual mmos. Less than 1% of the population raids in that game to begin with. And I can bet you at least 50% of them focus mostly on housing, rpging, and dressing up. FF14 is just second life with Final Fantasy.

>>382976139
WoW killed all other MMOs. Nothing comes close and never will.

>>382985369
>>382985709
Okay then i'll bite.

The problem is two fold.

Server stability and Client connectivity.

With server stability, MMOs always struggle, the more players you get in the same play space, the more calculations the game has to do.

I've never played an MMO where once you get 100 players on the same shard you don't have issues, this is why MMOs like WOW has very basic gameplay designs, or games like tera uses sharding to reduce server issues, which goes against the fundemental point of having an MMO in the first place, persistent, open world, shared space gameplay.

Then you have client connectivity, funfact: many third world countries (by definition) have significantly better internet these days then burgerland, thanks to burgerland's near monopoly of its network and a lack of competitiveness or government oversight.

Moving on, a clients connection to a server has to be done in a very specific way, otherwise you open yourself up to easily hacked clients that allow people to break shit, ontop of this, MMOs are played by, hundreds, thousands, if not millions of players world wide on the same server, and people, burgerland, EU, chinklands, will always play on servers with their friends, regardless where they are.

So yeah, you can create yourself some souls/monster hunter style combat, but you'd run into latency issues very quickly, and I guarantee you fucks would just bitch and moan because the server would be running on 10 ticks per second to keep up, and then whine that people who have 200+ms are suddenly warping around like they would even in a simplistic game like WOW when player counts neared the 100s.

>inb4 "but you dont need that many people on a shard
Then you're not playing an MMO, you don't need that many, but the game should be able to support that many people sharing the same play space, and current gen action MMOs just cheat the system (Tera simply draws cleave/line AOEs on the ground similar to every other MMO)

>>382986723
WoW didn't kill anything. All the other mmos dried up for their own reasons. Mostly with lack of content or player engagement. If WoW stole those players away, it was because those mmos weren't good to begin with.

>>382986756
tl;dr

just gonna assume you're some BR

huehue

>>382980518
This is incorrect. Destiny is in no way a clone of Borderlands. You should actually play the games you talk about before making yourself look autistic.

>>382986147
>>382985960
>>382985336
This is findom that is using in game money, not real money, and thus, it's completely under control. No real money is being exchanged.

The idea for findom, at least for me, isn't about just giving some random money. It's about giving your significant other money. It happens all the time in real life, whether it's giving your significant other money, or just attention, you could see it as a transaction, and that transaction between men and women for me is hot.

>>382981041
>MMOs is about players sharing the same play space, and cooperating, and competing over shit.
Destiny description but lacking all the other shit Destiny has also.

>>382976571

.hack
>??

>>382984757
>>382985336
I hate that findom arouses me, but it does. I couldn't tell you why considering I'm extremely cheap IRL. I get mad giving family members money. It's a fantasy I know not to bring into the real world. I'm sure plenty of you have fetishes that you know not to do IRL.

>>382986503
I like online survival games and PVP (I hate MMORPG PVP though, which is usually whoever hits first gets to do a combo that's an instant kill)

My issue with online survival games is that it just comes down to who has the biggest group of autists. Take ARK for example. It can be pretty fun to start up on a new server and build up, but if you don't have AT LEAST 5 people playing all day every day, some random group of tryhards can destroy everything you have over night.

The perfect MMO for me would be a survival game, where you can choose to live in an NPC protected (But not invincible) city with other players, or go off into the wilderness and build your own place that you have to protect yourself.

I could enjoy playing as a clothier/merchant in a combat focused MMO, if I didn't have to worry that everything I spend hundreds of hours on is wasted when three guys that have never stopped playing get bored and decide to rampage through all the new/less advanced players shit.

>>382986720
FF14 is one of the most popular games in the genre.
How many people are in WoW raids nowadays? 24?
Only sandbox MMOs like EVE regularly get truly massive amounts of players together.
And you know what? Not that many players in any game get to what can be considered "end-game" content.
Hell even people who buy single player games don't finish them, look at achievements for beating the game and the percentage of players who actually get them.

>>382986723
>>382986820

you are both 100% wrong and need to learn to play games without seeing what /v/ says about them.

>>382986503
Dark Age of Camelot with a hundred thousand players and a coat of paint.

>>382986720
>Less than 1% of the population raids in that game to begin with.
Stop playing in shit servers. But its true a big portion of XIV population focuses in RP. Then again, they are in their own containment server.

>>382986945
As the person who posted originally, I 100% agree with this. It arouses me, but I don't like giving people money irl. It is definitely something to keep in the fantasy world.

Also, download that private server and give me your money, cutie.

>>382986572
From what I remembered the combat wasn't completely terrible but I just wanted something more. I did like how you could level up different weapons and armor pieces and the questing was okay but it needed something else to really pull me in.

>>382986756
UE was the shittiest engine imaginable and TERA worked fine from latency PoV, the only major issue it had was desyncs happening in couple skills that were obviously not tested well enough during development.

You seem like a complete retard that doesn't even understand that there exist servers for each continent. It's like you've never actually played an MMO.

Fucking embarrassing, apply yourself, retard.

>>382981751
This is nothing like eve. It's just runescape again. I want a game where I can control areas and build empires. None of these pieces of shit modern sandbox games are sandboxes. They are on wheels shit.

>>382986960
Crowfall promises what you're after, kind of.

Too many people watched that one episode of Welcome to the NHK!. No one's playing one of these after seeing that shit.

>>382986981
Thats because Blizz replaced raiding with mythics, which is basically casual raiding for busy people. And since those busy people were the ones raiding prior to those changes, no new kids are taking their place cause there's no encouragement to do so.

FF14 is popular simply cause it's easy to get into and doesnt make things difficult. It's pretty much an example of the mmo problem, which is also not a problem.

>>382987057
>people focus on RP
>on an RP game

really joggles the noggle

>>382979796
Destiny 2 is shaping up to be a lot less of an MMO style game than the original was, they are averting directions massively. Extremely simplified class system that boils down to picking between one of two premade builds, removing random rolls on gear, placing a much larger emphasis on a traditional looking single player campaign. I'm really getting the impression that they are just giving up all ambition, and are just making a slightly more complex Halo game instead of continuing what Destiny started.

>>382987106
Reguardless of region locks people will still play on US servers if their friends are there.

>>382987190
Okay, but I'm just looking at the number of players involved, it doesn't matter if a game is "hardcore" or "casual", the genre just doesn't actually mean "massive" most of the time.

>>382987068
You're not getting your claws into me. I don't like ERP. Good luck though.

>>382987353
You either just wanted to reply something just because or you have no idea what you are talking about. The RP that we are talking about here is much different to the average role playing game. If you think there's nothing wring with them, congratulations, you are part of the problem, enjoy your AFK cats.

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>>382983613
>They always said from the beginning that it was avoiding the gear treadmill
Ascended and Legendary tier exist
>inbeforeTHEYDROPINFRACTAL
It RNG and it always the stats you never need, which is zerker.

>be largely horizontal, focusing on story.
It's about orgies of mary sue race call the Sylvari and it shifted to team Tumbrite.

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>dude... RAIDING LMAO
Anyone who considers themselves a hardcore raider needs to seriously kill themselves.

>>382987562
This.

Raiding is fun, but if its the main course rather then a special event then your game is shit.

>>382987190
I wish mythics were casual raiding for busy people instead of a required infinite grind for raiding people. I was really excited for them when I thought they'd be orthogonal content to raids but then they turned out to just be a miserable part of the gearing process.

I think the best "MMO" in terms of combat right now is Dragon's Dogma Online, as it's a near-direct copy of it's console counterpart. They haven't made it tab-target, there's some skill involved, and if you liked the console game, you'll generally like the online game because it's pretty much the same game with more content. It also helps that the base game had something of a "holy trinity" going on, although they did kind of shoe-horn in the Shield Sage to fill the tank niche, but Mystic Knight basically had that filled in the first place.

Too bad that 1.0 had the worst system possible for dealing with big enemies that discouraged actually doing damage, and it's Japanese only. They've been working on it recently, and I believe it's mildly popular in Japan, but it's one of the few games I know that actually engages you from the beginning because it has decent combat.

You just need a few friends, but hey, MMO's are always more fun with friends.

I pray that at least one niche MMO is good

Camelot Unchained
Pantheon
Ashes of Creation
Shroud of the Avatar
Crowfall

etc

Seriously JUST ONE, they're all doing pretty different shit at the very least.

>>382987756
too bad that most people won't bother to jump through the hoops to play it, much like PSO2

I'm not even willing to go through the BS to get PSO2 up and running. My friends sure as shit aren't, so it's pointless.

>>382984764
That is certainly true.

>>382982686
I've never played Wildstar but that looks cool as fuck. Why did the game stillbirth exactly?

>>382987857
Pretty much this, I really want to play Monster Hunter Online, after having played Frontier for hundreds of hours, but jesus christ China makes it hard to play anything that's China only.

Need a fucking QQ account just to sign up, and you need a cell phone just to make a QQ account, and it's fucking terrible.

And if I'm not able or willing to do that, like you said, I DEFINITELY won't be able to convince any friends to do it.

>>382987812
>Shroud of the Avatar
you can scratch that one already

>>382982632
Why even play PvP in an MMO if you can just go dota or LoL?
Why play PvE if you can play some proper RPG instead like dark souls?
Demand and supply.

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The best MMO i've ever played was LOTRO.
Tried WoW, FFXIV, GW2, aion and tera but they were all shit in comparison.
>tfw remembering how excited I used to be about new MMOs

>>382982686
They should have ease up on the leveling (the grind to max is retarded and how the game advertise for endgame) and they shouldn't have done that Attunement crap, either.

>>382987869
It was designed to cater exclusively to hardcore raiders.

>>382987869
Laundry list of quests kind of game.
Every single attack in the game is a cone attack, circle AoE, or line AoE. Every single one of them.
Bland design.
Dreamworks faces on all the characters.

>>382987939
How's Frontier?

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>>382987869
Combination of bugs and being too hard for most mmo players.

>>382987869
Bot filled garbage PVP, boring leveling, horrible raid atunement system for those that made it to max level, dungeons where people left if anyone died once thanks to the rewards going down, game didn't run on AMD for like 6 months, take your pick.

https://fracturedmmo.com/
From Fail to Scam Artist, how much fail is this crowdfunding mmo?

>>382987869
Apart from the inordinate focus on hardcore raiding from the start, it had a shitshow of a launch and never really recovered.

>>382988058
It was fun if you played with English speakers or Koreans that didn't care.

I played the KR version, technically you could be banned if they found out you weren't Korean, but I don't think it ever happened to anybody from /v/.

It was designed to be played in groups of 4 though, every single fight takes 4x longer to solo than any of the portable/console versions of Monster Hunter.

The first time I tried to solo a Daimyo Hermitaur, I timed out. (I was using un-upgraded shit and just couldn't do enough damage to it)

>>382988004
And almost none of them even tried it.

>>382984278

That has nothing to do with combat- it's PvE grinding. That's more a criticism of the AI then anything else.

>>382988145
It did recover. People just didn't care.

>>382987869

>>382987991
Ignore all retards that tell you that leveling is easy. It not. The leveling in Wildstar is so boring and full choke of shit like 392842389045789302578023 quests popping into your screen that it make Project 1999 look good. It doesn't help that nobody want to dungeon with a low level player, no matter how many time you ask in global chat. Seriously, you advertise the game for endgame but you put a shit effort on leveling? Fuck you, Carbon.

>>382987979
What's good about it compared to other games?

There are at least, what, five different successors to City of Heroes currently in the works right now?

>>382988190
It's almost like all of the retards who were spamming that it was the Second Coming of Christ were part of a vocal minority, a segment of which appears to not even raid themselves.

As for me, I loved raiding back in WoW from Vanilla to the end of WotlK. I can't do it anymore, though. Everyone's married, has kids, or whatever, and you're forced to play with randos. It doesn't have any appeal anymore, just a second job.

>>382988240
Carbine.

>>382986103
Sounds awful. No thanks.

>>382988240
>The leveling in Wildstar is so boring and full choke of shit like 392842389045789302578023 quests
You don't take quest from plain markers. You focus on zone and world story quest givers.

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>>382988264
They're vaporware at best. They should have stick together and work as one instead of splitting up. I don't mind since Champions Online is alright to me.

>>382987947
>>382987812
I got SotA for free and still feel like I wasted something. Nothing made sense and the combat wasn't fun. Maybe I'm missing something. I just couldn't get into it at all.
Camelot Unchained might be cool, especially with how abilities work. I keep hearing about a ton of hype for Ashes of Creation, so I might look into it. Haven't really seen much about Pantheon.
I personally backed Crowfall because the whole concept of being able to win sounds like it'll be a great driver for Guild v Guild and Faction v Faction war. Recent developments have made me glad I stuck with it this whole time.

>>382988060
Is it still fun? How is the loot in a group/raid shared? Would a new player find a raid?

Wildstar is the dark souls of MMOs right?

>>382987526
The point of games is to have fun, if you're such an autist that think everyone has to be a mighty warrior out to save the world, then enjoy nobody playing with you

Some people seem to be willing to pay money to play a dress up game

I'm still mad about Guild Wars.

I don't even like the direction of new MMOs looking for new directions to the genre. GW had it right. Instead of getting rid of tab targeting, game starts at max level, or gear grind shit they just did the best take on them by making combat that actually benefited from tab targeting, used the early levels as a tutorial while rushing you to max, and made it so there was always shit to grind for but it was all optional stuff you could tackle at your own pace.

I want progression for the genre, but not evolution you know?

>>382987869
Leveling is boring as fuck. Combat is very repetitive.

>>382987812
There will never be another good MMO for one big reason. The MMO community thinks the end game is the only part that matters. So they blow through 3/4 of the content. Developers know this shit, so why would they even put effort into that content. 3/4 of every mmo will always be garbage as a result. And the community blows through the good stuff just as quickly. Then they leave because there's "no content". The community ruined the genre.

Don't bother mentioning sandbox MMOs. The community won't play them at all.

Whenever I see a statement like this I think about EVE. I mean, say what you want about it, at least it found it's niche. I guess you just have to stop aping WoW.

>>382988698
I never got back into GW2 after they changed everything.

>>382985251

I don't care.

If the technology for non tab-targeting bullshit MMO's doesn't exist yet then all that means is MMO's have no business existing in any mainstream capacity. Most people who play video games don't give a fuck about "weaving their own tale" and immersing themselves in some bullshit life-skills. People play a game about swords and sorcery because they want to fuck niggas up. A big part of that is having engaging combat mechanics.

>>382988545
Yeah SotA is one of those things that the combat feels like you're missing something fundamental about it that makes it work.

But you're not and it's just awful.

>>382988570
Despite all the power creep, the game can still be challenging and fun. How raid loot is distributed depends on the group, mine does open rolls on everything but tokens and special items. You should be able to find a group if you want to raid.

>>382988723
I would say that a lot of folks play FF14 for the story. I don't think the 'end game raid squad' is as prevalent as it is in now.

ESO did that level scaling thing so now everything I do at CP 160 is end game. It feels pretty good, desu. I know some people like a structured game, but I like being able to fuck off to wherever I want.

>>382987857
I could act like a smug little shit and say "Well if you really wanted to play a decent MMO, you'd jump through the hoops :^)"

It's a disgrace, honestly. I know for a fact that PSO2 has a dedicated launcher for the English community, with it's own VPN service, an English translation that's updated through said launcher, and people still don't play it because of how you have to type in a Japanese captcha, for example. It doesn't help that I've heard bad things about it recently, primarily that there's not much new content, and the devs are focusing on milking out the whales. Nobody wants to use a VPN, even in games where it doesn't matter that much (i.e. DDO, as it uses P2P connections for the combat and "overworld", where everything else is server-based), or where you can turn it off (DDO once again).

I guess I'm just annoyed at how people don't want to play a good MMO, just because it's not in their language, or it takes some effort. Or, if they complain about MMOs being shit and you give them one that they might enjoy, they turn around and say they don't want to play because it's "too hard to set-up", or there's too many hoops.

Just annoys me, that's all.

I'm currently playing FFXIV with a few friends, and while it is fun, I sometimes want to go back to DDO because of the combat itch that it scratched. I might try to bring some of them along for the ride, but I doubt they'll come because of how annoying it is to set-up and play.

>>382987939
Honestly, I'd avoid most things Korean/Chinese, because they need you to sign up with your Korean SSN equivalent, or tie an account to a phone number or some other device.

>>382988807
You're not wrong, but I want exploration, too. I want to get lost and go into a cave just because and fight some goblins. THAT'S what I want.

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>most servers crowded at least
>Steam stats climbing
Looks alive to me.

>>382986017

>every player has access to all skills and all weapons
>this somehow wont inevitably lead to math-autists figuring out the absolute most efficient combinations of gear and skills and making a youtube video so everyone knows about it

wew. You understand neither human nature nor game design.

>>382988698
Literally blame NCsoft for this. They put their entire arm into the bowl of soup and all the good cook left.

Blizzard will still be supporting wow and releasing expansions ten years from now and chances are it will still be the best MMO.

Legion is a pretty good expansion, arena is cancer though

>>382988946
That's because some huge e-celeb is playing right now and has been for a week or two. Most people will quit when they hit the grind wall with lmao no pets.

>>382988396
It been awhile, but yeah.

>>382988418
It doesn't matter. Those quests are a fucking chore to do, even by MMO standards, and if we're looking at by a outside observer, they would assume they would have to do ALL THE QUEST because that was how it was handle in the new MMOs. There is a fucking reason why they had that recent max level giveaway late in Spring of this year.

BRING BACK GRINDING
I want shit to do in my MMO
I don't want to idle in the capital
I don't want to log in, go to the mail, go to the AH, go to the bank, log out

>>382988882
The SEA servers are closing.

>>382988946
Black Desert Online is a single player MMORPG.

There's almost no reason you would ever want to play in a group, it just slows you down.

>>382988985
>Skills that are overused get nerfed
>There's a period of time while autists try to figure out what the new best skill combination is
>That gets tweaked
>More time of autists trying to figure out the best possible thing

All the while, the non-autists can choose whatever they want to choose for fun. I played Archeage, most people went with "optimal" PVP classes, and I went with Ebonsong, a combination of archer and support, everybody thought I was stupid for doing it until I was winning almost every 1v1 fight, yet even though I usually won the 1v1s nobody was rushing to change into an Ebonsong.

>>382984278
It's smooth and well animated, it looks good, the moves feel powerful.
It's a million times better than pusing fireball in WoW and watching a tiny globe of fire hit an enemy who won't even flinsc.

>>382988753
What do you mean "changed"? Is it good now?

>>382988946
>how do we make our game seem alive?
>lets make all the life skills boring and tedious so that the best way the level them is to automate it and go afk

Wildstar is westernized garbage "cupcake"

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>>382989098
>Legion is a pretty good expansion

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WHAT IS YOUR OPINION ON WOW PRIVATE SERVER, LIKE WARMANE?

>>382989098
If legion didn't have diablo gear and artifact weapons it would be so much better

Terra Online combat + Secret World questing + World of Darkness lore and setting.

>>382988829
Sounds alright. Can you recommend a class? I like fast paced stuff that can live on its own if possible. And is actually needed in a group. Nothing is worse than playing the class the devs hate.

Yes, because there will never be a MMO with three important things ever again:

- only monthly subscription with no cash shop or any other P2W stuff
- sandboxy to at least some extent
- no voice/outside of game communications

>>382981648
I guess the meaning of "massively multiplayer" is lost on you.

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Reminder that Wildstar was suppose to be a Halo MMO

>>382989173
I don't know if you'd consider it good, but at some point they changed how skilltrees work and most classes played completely different afterwards. I never got the hang of it.

>>382989272
Wildstar was supposed to be Project Titan, Blizzard's Overwatch themed MMO before Overwatch became a TF2 clone.

>>382989135
>It doesn't matter. Those quests are a fucking chore to do
I just said you don't have to do them.
>they would assume they would have to do ALL THE QUEST
But then they would level and get the prompt to go to the next area.
Wildstar's leveling really isn't as bad as you make it sound. you could hit cap in 2-3 if you weren't rushing.

>>382989310

>Overwatch became a TF2 clone.

Please stop this meme. They are nothing alike

>>382989098
WoW is probably the worst major MMO on the market and only survives because of the brand. I would rather play a P2W korean MMO than WoW. Atleast then I could die occasionally.

>>382989308
Any articles about this? Its news to me

Or have more than a four skill rotation

I just want a good game like ultima online again where I can do random shit all over the place and interact with the world and it's fun.

I hate games that remind me of real life with fast-food fiction tier popculture memes that entertain normies like WoW

Will anyone ever make an mmo that doesn't suck?

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>>382989130
Maybe. Only time will tell.

>>382989170
Literally all of the endgame is group, or rather guild oriented.
Also either the current patch or the following patch is adding areas that are too hard to grind solo.

>>382989197
The only stuff that is really AFK is fishing and the strength training that is retarded.
Is smelting 200 metal bars in WoW also automated and AFK?

Did anyone play the abomination that is black desert online?

>>382988723
I think at the very least you may want to look into crowfall and camelot unchained in terms of games that aren't doing the typical power through levelling and focus all on endgame

>>382989172
Wow combat is about interactions between mechanics and optimisation. It is so much more rewarding than just pressing your button and looking on in awe as your cool guy teleports behind your target who then mutters something in japanese and falls in two.

>>382989253
I only raid log these days so it's been a while since I've played any class besides spellslinger seriously. I've heard espers have good sustainability. Stalker have a skill that can be tiered up to heal. Stalker also has almost no skills with cast times but I've heard it's rotation has been really simplified. I'd say watch some videos. You don't have to worry about what's raid meta, all classes are useful.

>>382989257
>- no voice/outside of game communications
I'm assuming you mean outside software like Teamspeak and Discord. That shit is a huge problem. It's created a big ass bubble around every player group. They end up only interacting with each other. No way to fix it though.

All these years and Runescape still has the best quests baka

>>382989627
>The only stuff that is really AFK is fishing and the strength training that is retarded.

Nope. I spent 12+ hours a day in BDO just afk doing work or masturbating while I traveled from place to place. I was rank 1 trader for the entire time I was playing, and I leveled to max level almost entirely from AFK trading.

>>382989310

What the fuck, who told you that horse shit

>>382989707
>I'm assuming you mean outside software like Teamspeak and Discord. That shit is a huge problem. It's created a big ass bubble around every player group. They end up only interacting with each other. No way to fix it though.

This is a huge issue with online matchmaking in general, in any team game.

>>382989257
Some magical limit on out of game communication would make so many kinds of game fantastic experiences again. The internet was a mistake.

>>382989098
>Legion is a pretty good expansion, arena is cancer though
Legion is only a good expansion for leveling content. Dungeon design is also pretty nice I guess.
But the endgame is absolute cancer holy shit.

>>382989170
>All the while, the non-autists can choose whatever they want to choose for fun.

Which is again where you don't understand human nature.

>skills that overused will get nerfed
>when the min-maxers figure out the next best thing things will get changed again

This isn't a new idea. Like, "balance patches" are the most common type of patches in any sort of PvP game for the past ten years at least. That strong builds will eventually get nerfed doesn't mean that people will just "pick what's fun". It means they'll jump from FotM to FotM and most will eventually get frustrated and stop playing because they keep investing time and resources into a build only for it to get nerfed later by the devs out of pure spite.

And besides, how the fuck is it a free world where "the players are making the content" if the devs are constantly, unceasingly fucking with the game to enforce meta changes?

>>382989338
And you have to look at it as a outsider/NEWCOMER that isn't aware of it, even if it is bullshit.

>if you weren't rushing.
The dead zone and how all the proper endgame content that isn't housing is at max level. You kind of want to fucking max level your character.

>>382989693
>spam cobra
>spam kill command when it lights up
>spam some other move that lights up because I can't be fucked to remember Legion
WOW THAT OPTIMIZATION! All you fucks still playing it deserve that Lead Dev who plays on a tablet. You don't know any better.

>>382989705
Alright, thank you!

>>382976139
yes, it's been dead at least a decade.

>>382989763
le ebin insider, there was some data mining, some conveniently coinciding dates, etc.
i don't remember everything, but i was skeptical and he convinced me

blizzard scraps titan, devs get upset, they leave and release it as its own game, it does poorly, blizzard releases old titan assets as a tf2 game, it does well

>>382989707
Yes, that's what I'm talking about mostly because of the clique bullshit, and when you're "forced" to actually type in-game it also forces you to play better and interact better.

If you have to type stuff while raiding, you're encouraged to just be a better player, learn the fights better, type quicker, organize better, don't play with your dick in one hand and bong in another, and so on.

>>382989804
>TL;DR: My only MMO experience is world of warcraft

>>382989828
Try playing a better class.

>>382989772

Yeah it sure is amazing that all these games that require teamwork and coordination to be excellent in ended up encouraging people to use voice software that would maximize teamwork and coordination.

>>382976139
Not yet, it's in the dying phase currently

>>382989889
Oh, like DK? Or Warrior? Or NuLock? They're all Playskool versions of their former selves and they all take no fucking skill to play.

You don't need to lie; most people have tried Legion and anyone who played WoW at any other time knows EXACTLY how dumbed down it is. You're not going to convince anyone.

>>382989750
You can't really bet THAT AFK while trading, since you need to input whenever you reach your destination, right?
Yeah I think workers not gathering while you are offline is retarded, since it encourages autists to just keep their game on.

>>382989886

I've never played WoW in my life, actually.

Anyway, not an argument.

>>382989232
I really wish the WoD MMO went through. It's just the whole idea behind Vampire is that since they're all immortal they have nothing better to do than play games with each which is the entire idea behind MMORPG's since none of it matters in the end players are free to come up with their own stupid shit.

>>382986652
God willing

>>382989949
>5 vs 5 team game
>you queue with 2 friends, get 2 randoms
>zero communication with the randoms, because you just talk with your friends on skype

VoIP is great for team games. Third party VoIP that only you and your friend use is horrible.
Without Skype, you'd at least type text in the chat, so the whole team will know what the fuck you are doing.
With Skype, you just say to your friend, and everybody else is confused as to whats going on.

>>382989794
The problem is that the in-game chat system is usually really neglected, in most games you don't even get chat bubbles anymore.

If the in-game chat is developed properly (custom chat channels, proper positioning of text, maybe even quick chat commands for raids/pvp like in FPS games, I forgot which game had that, maybe RIFT?, chat macros) and the "need" for out-of-game communication is reduced, then all out-of-game chats just become cliquey hangouts and you can actually still play the game with the majority of people, especially in random parties and in other aspects of the game (social, trading, building, exploring, whatever else the game has).

>>382989471
Uh, its been quite a while since it, i can't find anything that rallys it up right now. You could look at the Builder http://de.gw2skills.net/editor/ it gives at least an impression on how it works now.

>>382990006
>Tab in every once in a while
>Sell goods
>Auto travel to next place
>Alt tab for another 10-15 minutes and do it again
>Do this all day
>Become rich and hit max level

>>382989949
There is no game that requires more teamwork and coordination than pre-voice games required.

>>382985480
>none of that streamlining
>literally has an option for you to auto run to quests

>>382983127
He meant a good game.

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>>382989272

>>382989987
You're not optimising hard enough.

>>382990194
Aah yes the old "I want a game exactly like game x but I won't play x".

>>382990168
Well if somebody want to play their game like this, even if it's boring as fuck, more power to them.
But you can just as well succeed with a more active playstyle.

>>382990237
>Legionbabbies think there is a way to optimize 4 button rotations

>>382976139
Pretty much, these days. You can't draw in new players who don't already have friends that also play MMOs when your game does everything to prevent them from making friends. Why interact with people when you can complete, generally, all of the content you're interested in without others?
>>382989772
Points it out well. Most of us at this point have internet buddies we play games with, and those circles tend to stagnate or get smaller, not expand.

At the same time, people who play MMOs have come to hate playing with randoms they don't know and assume they're shit (though many are), and won't take the time to teach new players. It's probably a combination of MMOs fostering an environment where socializing is frustrating and pointless, and volatile spergs being the major playerbase these days.

When is the new eu servers for ffxiv coming?

>>382990085

>5 vs 5 team game
>you queue with 2 friends, get 2 randoms
>use the game's VOIP system
>the entire match is you and your two friends in a giant flame-war with the two randoms because you and your group have your collective idea of how the match should go while the two randoms have their own ideas, and because you're in a group your buddies will always have your back in an argument which encourages you to be stubborn and crowd-out the randoms opinions

Third-party voip blew up BECAUSE groups of friends were tired of fighting retards and literal 12 year-olds in a game's VOIP. I mean it's a meme now about how universally shitty voice-chat in Xbox LIVE was.

>>382989693
Yeah, wow combat takes about as much skill as combo trial in a fighting game, except you remove all the actual execution from it so you just mash the buttons in correct order.

Feels so rewarding when I can play through a glorified memory game!

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>>382990298
I want a burger with lettuce and pickles on it but that sure as fuck doesn't mean I want McDonalds. This isn't a complicated concept

>>382990326
>assume they're shit (though many are)

Its easy to be shit when the rest of the party won't communicate with you, since they are on Skype and won't use ingame chat.

>>382990370
not him but it really is better than bdo's braindead combat.

>>382990362
To be honest, sounds like you are a cunt, and associate with cunts.
I've never had that issue, even in cancer games, because I can diffuse the situation by not being autistic.
Online game chat isn't a debate, stop trying to win. Following a subpar plan as a team beats a fucking civil war in chat.

>>382981751
>Albion Online only launches next month and it is that
Frankly, premium model already looks worrisome.

>>382976139
There are more people playing mmos now than ever, so no.

>>382981498
To be fair, the reason why GW 1 was so popular is because it a CORPG instead of a proper mmo. The Online part was really DRM at the time and the whole instance thing made it so that they can easily change content for one particular character instead of hundreds.

>>382990237
He's not wrong though.
My moonkin rotation wasn't much better either. It was plenty fun while leveling and doing early dungeons. But after farming heroic raids I asked myself, "Do I really want to bore myself to death in mythic raids?".

>>382990470
>braindead combat.
The need to execute button combos perfectly removes shitters from PvP.

>>382977165
WoWfags are the worsts.

>>382990661
>PvP
You mean that mess fights being decided more by gear and latency than anything else?

>world of warcraft is still blizzards most profitable title
Nope, mmo players are autists that spend vast amounts of money to play shitty games.

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>>382976614
Amazing how many WoWfags got triggered by the truth

>>382977165
>>382990720
Nothing top GW2fag. They literally kill /mmo/ in /vg/ with their autism

>>382990767
You can literally say that about any MMO.
Well maybe not about WoW now neutered BG system, but honestly, who the fuck even plays those anymore?

>>382984534
EQ fags lol

>>382990820
Everyone knows WoW killed sandbox MMORPGs, even SWG literally killed itself when they revamped it to be more like WoW. I'm guessing most of /v/ had WoW as their first MMO so they think it really was the first.

>>382990503
>To be honest, sounds like you are a cunt, and associate with cunts.

It's human nature. You say you've never done it but if you've played games with friends in groups of randoms using the game's VOIP then you've done it too and just never even realized it.

Or are you going to make the assertion that you and your buds have NEVER gotten into an argument with randoms over a game's voice chat?

>>382990335
To add to my question. Is it worth it going to one of the new servers and what is a good tank class?

>>382990926
>You say you've never done it but if you've played games with friends in groups of randoms using the game's VOIP then you've done it too and just never even realized it.

No, because I am not a cunt, and don't associate with cunts.
When we get a cunt in our team, who is being a cunt, I talk to my friends "okay lets do what he wants, see what happens". If it goes well, we win, all is good. If it does bad, he is the problem, the other people in the team see it, and its easy to make an argument to change plan once the plan has failed.

Just don't be an autist. Super simple stuff.

>>382990916
>even SWG literally killed itself
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/12/10/arts/for-online-star-wars-game-its-revenge-of-the-fans.html
>"We really just needed to make the game a lot more accessible to a much broader player base," said Nancy MacIntyre, the game's senior director at LucasArts. "There was lots of reading, much too much, in the game. There was a lot of wandering around learning about different abilities. We really needed to give people the experience of being Han Solo or Luke Skywalker rather than being Uncle Owen, the moisture farmer. We wanted more instant gratification: kill, get treasure, repeat. We needed to give people more of an opportunity to be a part of what they have seen in the movies rather than something they had created themselves."
I'm still fucking mad that this bitch from Lucas Art kill SWG.

>>382980852
>Try pulling more then one mob at a time in vanilla
what is ice mage. probably not the only class that could do it either

>>382991072
>probably

Never seen people get so riled up about the mention of Everquest.

It's like when someone makes a Final Fantasy 11 thread and FF14 players come frothing at the mouths with shitslinging machine guns.

>>382981819
>You fake nostalgia fags are the worst, and probably more harm to the scene than the "casual" crowd you often malign

That's exactly what I would say if I was a casual WoW player who refused to accept that WoW did more harm than good to the genre.

>>382991072
At some versions you could DoT a mob, and the rest would reset, while the DoTed mob would stay on you.