Who was in the wrong here?

BUT AS I LIVE THERE'S NO EVIL THAT WILL STAND
AND I FINISH WHAT WAS STARTED
THE FIGHT OF PROTOMAAAAAAN!!

>>382934365
Megaman.
He can say he's "more than a robot" all he wants, that doesn't change the fact that he's about to break the laws of robotics

>>382935008
are the laws of robotics even canon in megaman?

Matpat. this wasn't in the japanese version.

Wily E. Coyote

>>382934365
The english localization team.

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>>382934365
matpat

So what he says in the JP script?

>>382936310
Typical Megaman stuff about Wily needing to be stopped. Nothing overtly murderous or lines about not being a robot.

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>>382934365
The wily what?

>>382934365

His backup that didn't secure the whole area.

>>382934365
The player by taking damage in such an easy fight.

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>>382936310
Japanese version, Rockman says this time there's no forgiveness for Wily.
Wily, much like the US version to Mega Man, reminds Rockman that he's a robot.
Instead of claiming otherwise, Rockman freezes in place having a minor BSOD, his dialogue is all "......" with his mind unable to process it. On the other hand, Mega Man goes "DIE WILY"

>>382935008
>"more than a robot" all he wants, that doesn't change the fact that he's about to break the laws of robotics

I don't understand you're reasoning. Doesn't that explicitly prove that Megaman is right? Breaking a law of robotics in spite of all your programming demanding you obey them DOES prove he's gone beyond being a mere machine bound by code.

>>382935570
the laws of robotics arent even laws

>>382935008
But by being able to break the laws doesn't that proves he's above a mere robot

>>382934365
The liberal court system for not giving Dr. Wily the death sentence.

And just think of all of the conflict and destruction that happened in the later games would have been prevented if Mega Man didn't obey the 3 laws and put down Wily then and there.

>>382936921
>STOP RIGHT THERE YOU CRIMINAL SCUM
>YOU ARE UNDER ARREST FOR BREAKING THE LAWS OF ROBOTICS

I initially thought he was saying I am more than a Reddit

>>382934365
The translation team

>>382936953
No, because a robot could just be programmed to ignore such protocols. You're not intentionally breaking the laws if you never knew they were laws in the first place. What shows that Mega Man is above standard robots is that he is aware of the laws, acknowledges them, but can use reasoning, judgement, deduction, and evaluate for himself that he cannot abide by those laws in the case of Wily for the greater good of all mankind.

MEGEMEN WERE SHET

>>382935570

It's implied in Japanese with Wily appearing baffled by Rockman pointing a charged buster shot at him.

Rockman: "I won't be tricked again. Dr. Wily."

Wily: "Shoot me? You would really shoot me? Me?! You, a robot... shooting a human like me?"

Rockman: "........"

>>382937767
ok so there aren't actually any laws of robotics, he's just surprised that a robot programmed by dr. Light would even consider killing him

>Wily constantly sends his robots out to terrorize the world.
>"y-you can't hurt me you're a robot :("

>>382937954
Something like that, but since the series heavily borrows from Astroboy, anyway, it probably was based off the "Ten Principles of Robot Law" which itself was almost certainly taken directly from Asimov's Three laws.

>>382937954
>>382938389
Mega Man X's introduction (X was released before 7), Dr. Light's in game notes mention the First Law by name, and that X not being bound by that law is the one thing that scared him the most, and the reason why he sealed X in a capsule for ethical and moral testing.

>>382939152
It's definitely foreshadowing to the X series, though still a bit incomprehensible now in hindsight since a lot of the violent qualities of maverick reploids were due to a virus that Wily created instead of simply breaking the law because of free will.

Also, wasn't 7 released at the same time as X2?

>>382934365
Megaman. Because he had a chance and he didn't actually shoot Wily.

>I will not be told where to stand! I will not be told what to say. Not by man or machine. Not by you, not by anyone tonight!

WDHMBT?

AI is from the devil

>>382935570
It must be since the fact that 100 years later when X and Reploids became a thing they were lauded as independant beings who could even disagree with humans during a normal conversation, with the far end being Mavericks being capable of killing humans out of their own free will. Something that the Robot Masters couldn't without being specifically programmed to do so.

>>382940682
>Also, wasn't 7 released at the same time as X2?
It was. Also, bear in mind, X2 or X3 were the ones to rewrite Mavericks as "it was a virus". Originally, Mavericks either chose to rebel against humans because they decided, or (like Vile), their electronic brains shorted out and went insane (Vile is the only known example of a non-viral Maverick)

>>382935570
Weil tried to pull some "you can't kill me because you're a reploid" shit with Zero and promptly got his ass kicked in response so it's at least not a foreign concept, but it doesn't seem to hold much weight when robots are sentient and have free will.

>>382934365
Megaman is a house helping robot who was modified last minute to stop Wily from world domination and blaming Dr. Light out of jealousy. He has a learning chip which allows him to stop Wily's robots, but he does not have free will and cannot break the moral laws programmed in him. X on the other hand has free will, but was trained for hundred of years to be a good guy, basically brainwashing.

>>382941907
And anything after the x-series is non-canon garbage

>>382941718
Zero is of similar technical marvel like X, he can make his own choices like all reploids do; he was never bound to any law, Weil's sentence makes no sense or it was badly translated, especially considering in Zero's timeline Reploids have become even more independent and have love relationships with humans.

>>382942103
>And anything after the x-series is non-canon garbage
Nice headcanon.

>>382935570
Wily outright mentions the first law right before the line in the OP. He even says "did you forget...?", as if it's implied that Megaman (and by proxy, the player) take it for granted that it's a thing. Did you play MM7?

>>382942301
english translation doesn't count because it's inaccurate

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>>382942113
I think what Weil was getting at is that Zero, as a former Maverick Hunter, defender of humanity, should not be able to harm a human, it goes against the LAW he protected during the Sigma Wars that spawned from 21XX to 22XX. X-series Zero might've actually hesitated for a moment.

But Zero series Zero is an amnesiac fucko, so no.

>>382942215
It's alternate universe trash

>>382942463
>I don't like it so it's not canon

>>382942463
Nope, the only alternate univerne is EXE and Starforce.

>>382942461
I never got if Zero actually got his memories back during his series. Obviously he doesn't remember any of the Elf War stuff but I wonder if he remembers what happened in the X series.

I'm about to play X7, how bad is it?

>>382942794
He seems to have recalls but not exact memories.
He RECALLS him and X were the ambiguously gay duo, he RECALLS his original function was to battle for something (for either Wily's ambition, the humans in X series, or Ciel in Zero), and he RECALLS many of his old abilities from the X series through combat.

But it's not an exact memory.

>>382935008
Technically the laws of robotics aren't actually a real, academic thing, they were invented by a science fiction writer. They're literary devices meant to demonstrate how troublesome robotic ethics could be, not actual formal laws.

>>382942794
There's nothing to indicate that he did. His past is irrelevant to who he is now, that's kind of the whole point of his character arc in Zero 3. The only indication that he might have any recollection of the past was a vague feeling that the real X wasn't a stuttering pussy fuccboi.

>>382943009
To this date I haven't decided which version is worse, the PC or the PS2 version. On PS2 I couldn't even finish a stage, on PC I made it to Red Stage 2, so I guess that one is the least of 2 evils.

>>382942461
He tells Weil he considers him a maverick just like the others.
>>382942794
No, he only remembers X. Anything on Sigma or Axl is never said.

>>382943325
>He tells Weil he considers him a maverick just like the others.
Yes, but X-Series Zero would've not done that. He still adhered to the rules. Canonically, during X1 he was the head of the Maverick Hunters as a whole, taking Sigma's Place.

... Granted, in X1, before the PSP retcon, the Maverick Hunters were just him an X, because everyone went follow Sigma, making it a 2 people vs the world scenario.

>>382934839
hope rides alone

>>382934365
Rock. He really isn't more than a robot, there's nothing human in him. The parametres he works within are just really vague and wide which allows him a bit more flexibility in the way he acts

>>382944412
he's more than a robot.
it's fiction

>>382944412
>"Mega Man, meet your replacement, X. I'm going to make sure he's not a moral failure like you."

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>>382944412
Rock is, was, and always will be more then a robot. Since the first game where it is his decision to fight Wily it is apparent he is sentient and able to make his own choices. He fights because he chooses to.

>>382944762
Mega Man had already died by that time.

>>382934365
Wily keeps using robots to terrorize people. He is in the wrong.

>>382944934
>Old, fat, drunk Thomas Light out-living his robot who gets constant maintanance.
I can't see it happening.

>>382944797
He can decide to do so because his parameters amounts to not being a bad guy. Choosing to fight the good doctor or not, lies under said parameters

>>382945086
When Zero comes along and kills Mega Man, it's possible.

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>>382944797
It wasn't so much a decision, but the conclusion his code pointed torwards. X was the first one to actually be able to take decisions without being tied to a code.

You could say, Proto Man is closer to "real free will" than Mega Man.

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>>382945262
Debunked, Zero killed no one. Wily didn't had enough time to unleash him into the world because of his unstability. As his body grew older he backed himself in robot bodies (Serges and Issoc)

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>>382945262
Dave, I loved BnG as much as anybody else who was around back then, but your cataclysm fan fiction isn't canon.

MegaMan 11 when?

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>>382945805

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>>382945318
Protoman did have freewill, not even debatable.
>we will never play rockman blues/megaman proto where you play as protoman and find out what happened between the classic and X series

>>382941907
>but he does not have free will and cannot break the moral laws programmed in him

Doesn't this scene go against that though? If he was truly programmed to not go against the laws then he wouldn't have even considered killing him. The fact that he went against his programming out of sheer frustration shows that there is indeed more to Rock.

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>>382946174
He has a problem in his Energy Balancer. Somehow, that is (or at least he believes), that is directly tied to the glitch in his program that allows him to have (the closest to) free will. He CHOSE to leave Light Labs before ol' Light could fix.

In Power Fighters 2, Light offers to fix him again, and Proto Man runs away instead out of his own will. Wily's fix during 3 (his Break Man persona) was just a minor band-aid, but eventually Proto Man WILL stop functioning.

Doctor Light himself confirms it in Power Fighters 2, it's more likely Proto Man will break down and "die" in a few years, than going for more than a decade, let alone the one hundred years it took for X to be uncovered.

>>382945087
But he was still a house cleaning robot. There should be nothing in is programming about fighting bad people to begin with when he's created to hell around the house. It's still a choice he made under his own accord.

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>>382946351
You could argue that scene alone (even though he didn't claim I AM MORE THAN A ROBOT in the original Japanese version) sparked Light's interest in creating X and real free will.

Assuming he hadn't began work on X before (and Bass actually stole X data along the Super Adapter data in 7), and Mega Man almost shooting Wily is what presicely led Light to realize he should do something to test X's reliability.

>>382946510
I know about the nuclear reactor. It could be like the zero series where he is found in sime ruins deactivated and is powered on somehow.

It was definitely his decision to both leave Light and betray Wily. He has free will. The stuff about X being the first to have freewill always felt like bullshit they made up to make X different from Rock.

>>382946818
>The stuff about X being the first to have freewill always felt like bullshit they made up to make X different from Rock.
Although that'd certainly be talking from a meta level, I always believed in universe it made sense that Proto Man ended up with free will by accident (after all he is a prototype, man) and X was the first successful robot to replicate that level of free will, maybe even surpass it.

But then comes the moral dilema of giving a machine free will and the dangers it conveys.

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How incredible would this scene have been in the comics?

Fuck you Archie and fuck you Ken Penders for canceling the best vidya comic ever made

Also Worlds Collide animated when

>>382934365
The translators.

>>382947023
My belief was always Protoman knows Light never meant to give him freewill and feels he may take it away if given the opportunity. If he actually would is unknown but I feel he would. He felt he owed Wily for saving his life but betrays him seeing as Wily's actions goes against personal moral code. Wily was probably aware of the fact protoman would eventually betray him and purposely used a limited energy source to repair him.

Light definitely has his own agenda and while he cares about his robots he doesn't seem pure either.

>>382947374
>Fuck you Archie and fuck you Ken Penders for canceling the best vidya comic ever made
To be fair, they were going bankrupt and keeping the liscence was more expensive than the profit it was bringing. The crossovers with Sonic was an attempt to bring kids' attention torwards the Mega Man comic, sadly the comic didn't had the numbers to bring enough money to justify the liscence. This is also why the last issues had more ads than the earlier issues.

Archie didn't do nuffin wrong, it was the lack of money and Mega Man did not help them.

>>382947785
>My belief was always Protoman knows Light never meant to give him freewill and feels he may take it away if given the opportunity. If he actually would is unknown but I feel he would.
I believe the opposite, he would've wanted to analyze Proto Man's code to see how Free Will was possible to move onto X before his age caught up to him (and it did caught up to him, so X had to be sealed).

His own agenda, I believe was merely the evolution of Robot-Human society. His last note in X8 states his dream was a society were robots and humans worked together as equals.

>>382946174
> ..and find out what happened between the classic and X series
I never knew I wanted this.

>>382934365
Willy.

If I was Megaman I would've been shot this fuck. He keeps trying to make the world shit by building evil robots. He cannot reform and must be exterminated.

Any humans who try to copy him, also get a buster to the face.

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What went wrong?

>>382948061
I believe he always knew how to give robots freewill, it's just that upon seeing how protoman was he purposely avoided it since protoman, having freewill, was disobedient. Light was the best roboticist in the world, I think he knew his shit and how to do it. To me the real unanswered question is of why did he feel the need to create X instead of upgrade Rock?

I know the classic series, and even the series in general, has little story but the actual world and lore are so interesting that I feel they are worth looking at deeply.

>>382948762
>To me the real unanswered question is of why did he feel the need to create X instead of upgrade Rock?

I figured that there's something so fundamentally different between them, that to 'upgrade' Rock, he'd remake him so fully that he'd no longer even be Rock. So he made X to have it be the future, but not remove Rock's existence in the process.

>>382948749
Too many ingredients in the pot.

Also didn't help that Ian wasn't allowed to use the bulk of those characters for six of the issues which only made shit worse

>>382949262
>wasn't allowed to use the bulk of those characters for six of the issues
Why not?

>>382949196
Fair enough.

I remember Kitamura saying that when making MM1 there was a lot of story details he had planned but he felt they might ruin the action so he never incorporated them. I respect his decision greatly but I still wish we could have seen the story he planned. The ending of MM8 where you see Rock saving kids and stopping a robbery always made me feel like the series was originally meant to be more then Wily in terms of conflict.

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>>382934839
>have protomen running in the background via youtube
>It switches over to the Red Dead Redemption tracks when its finished.

Some times RNGesus is kind

>>382949389
I think it was a licensing thing and they were paying per issue. But note how all characters not from Mega Man or Sonic didn't start showing up until issue 6. Still don't know what Paul was thinking cramming that many characters into the crossover

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Who knows anything about this rare game?

>>382948762
>I believe he always knew how to give robots freewill
I disagree with this notion, I believe he only knew how to program a personality to give the illusion of a free will and Proto Man's, like many great discoveries, was an accident.

But we don't have any confirmation from Capcom, not even in the Complete Works books, so it could go either way.

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>>382951084
>Rock Head from Mega Man 8 artwork
>Rush Head from Rockman & Forte 2002 rerelease trailer
>That Mega Man body
>That shoddily-made Marine
Fucking hell, this triggers me, baby.

>>382951352
Who were the robot masters?

>>382951824
I didn't play it, but that artwork is a frankenstein stitched from other (albeit official) sources+a bit of original art. I can't believe Capcom actually did this.

>>382952084
Yeah, true.

Clips I've seen of the game though look decent. I can't find much info though.