is the story good?

The one presented to casuals? No
The one you find if you really care and dig deep? Yes

>>382830671
Yes

Oh my God why is this being discussed so much lately? It's making me want to buy it again.

>>382830671

Sure, if you're a 12 year old kid playing his first RPG.

>>382830671

It has a story?

>>382830671
No. It's lame, simplistic, and obviously written with teenagers and their short attention spans in mind. It always amazes me how much detail and background lore goes into Elder Scrolls games and how so little of it ever shines through in the shitty stories that most players actually see.

>>382831817
Why would you ever do that to yourself?

>>382832318
I love TES games, I liked Skyrim well enough and I haven't played it since 2014. I played Oblivion and nothing but Oblivion for almost 5 years.

>>382830671
Read a book.

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>>382832318

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>>382830671
No, and it's because of pic related.

For some reason, Bethesda think this one solitary spic is all they need to write their games these days. TES used to have heaps of writers.

>>382830671
The ending where you kill Alduin is the biggest letdown in the whole story, it was so uninspired and boring.

>>382830935
This.

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>>382832964
Go to bed, todd.

>>382830671

The Civil War questline? I'll say yes considering we still have Stormcloak vs. Imperial threads six years later.

The Dragonborn plotline is also fairly good with how nicely it's integrated with the lore.

Nords and Dunmer are objectively the master races of Tamriel.

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>>382833241
Todd's slave labor.

>>382830671
There was a story?

>>382833241

>Italian
>spic

Does 4chan even know what spics are?

>>382833820
That's a spic name you moron. Are you stupid enough to think any surname ending in O is italian?

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>>382831817
I want to play it in VR on my PS4

>>382833820
>Italian
>mixed with Carthaginians and other African nigger subhumans

Meds aren't even European, they're just glorified shitskins.

>>382833975
That's clearly an Italian last name.

t. spic

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Mod Skyrim they said. It's easy they said.
I'm fucking retarded.

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>>382833820
Southern-american hispanic

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>>382834038

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>>382833354
alduin was just a shit antagonist
he didn't do a damn thing but resurrect his old buddies. he didn't even give a shit about you

I'm late to the party with this, and I know this isn't the first time he's ever been criticized. However, I recently came across this video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bi51-wjcwp8), saw a comment it was discussed here several months ago, and found the thread associated with it. While people were critical of him, I really wanna speak up about that video because I don't think anyone really broke down just HOW BAD it is and how it speaks volumes about how unqualified this man is. If you've seen the video? Great. If you haven't? I'm about to break it down anyways:

First problem is that for the entirety of the video, Emil seems to follow this pattern:

Step One: Emil makes a claim that a new feature or major change/content cut was necessary for development

Step Two: You rationally ask yourself "why" as he hasn't said why yet.

Step Three: Emil goes off on a pointless tangent for a bit

Step Four: Emil begins making a very good counterargument against his own argument and his own initial claim, highlighting serious flaws with it.

Step Five: Emil moves on to the next subject.

Step Six: You throw your keyboard through your computer monitor in a fit of rage with how retarded that just was

A great example of when this occurs is that Emil introduces the new dialog system for Fallout 4 and says "look, 4 buttons and 4 choices. Neat right?" He likewise makes some comments about how great a voiced protagonist is. He then goes on to say that the new dialog system was a MASSIVE HEADACHE for his own workers because they sometimes had conversations that didn't warrant four distinct answers (true/false), and that this created a lot of work for them. (he also more or less divulges Bethesda hard-coded that all convos need four answers, because reasons).

>>382834427

You must be a nigger :\

>>382834038

Irrelevant and you know it

>>382833975

Whose internet are you stealing, midwestfag?

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>>382833601
>master races
>not trans kalpic
you got one right at least

>>382834534
He likewise mentions just how much recording, studio work and data a voiced protagonist demands, stating the two lead voice actors make up for 40% of the game's dialog data, or how players are capable of depicting the protagonist's voice in their head. Emil never makes a statement why any of this was necessary.

Keep in mind, this is their lead writer. This is someone high up in the company with a lot of power and influence in the decision-making side of things, and he himself failed to make a compelling argument for these features, instead accidentally arguing against his own stance before he awkwardly moves on. One of their creative leaders cannot complete a speech without fumbling through it, and cannot even justify some of the major changes made, and even does a better job criticizing them. You may say "he said himself he's not a great speaker, he could just be socially awkward," and hey that's understandable, but he's supposed to be a writer!!! You mean to tell me he couldn't write a speech, collect his thoughts and read it emotionlessly and devoid of charisma? He "wrote" the powerpoint presentation, and at times it's all over the place, which leads me to...

Second main point: He sometimes goes off onto pointless topics. At one point he's talking about the three main aspects of his writing technique, and then he awkwardly shows pictures of his co-workers in the middle of a speech for no discernible reason. He completely skips out on explaining the third part of his technique, and "oh look, here's my co-workers and some cosplayers."

In literature, there's a rule called "Chekov's Gun." (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chekhov's_gun). In short, every story element needs to have a purpose, and if it lacks purpose, it has no reason to exist. Makes sense, no?

>>382834759
>niggers to the left
>slaves to the right

Did you make that list? I'm appalled at its sheer falsehood.

>>382834534
>A great example of when this occurs is that Emil introduces the new dialog system for Fallout 4 and says "look, 4 buttons and 4 choices. Neat right?" He likewise makes some comments about how great a voiced protagonist is. He then goes on to say that the new dialog system was a MASSIVE HEADACHE for his own workers because they sometimes had conversations that didn't warrant four distinct answers (true/false), and that this created a lot of work for them.
Haha how fucking stupid is Bethesda.

>>382834805
What bothers me with this is that while some of you may think ok, Emil is awkward as a speaker so at times there's random tangents with no purpose, he's supposed to be their lead writer. Their lead writer cannot even compose a half-hour speech that's devoid of basic violations with writing. ANY speech writer - let alone literature writer - would know not to go off on random tangents and divert attention away from the focus of the speech for no damned reason, yet Emil does this in spades. After the co-workers comes a Star Wars reference, then comes the Great Gatsby, then comes Moby Dick, then comes some photos of Cosplayers. Great way to make his point, right? If you REALLY try, you can see his thought process, but no, a writer should not be making me do the bulk of the work to understand them.

That particular snippet ends with Emil saying the player will take any stories Bethesda writes, rip the pages out and make paper airplanes, and that the most important story is the player's story, "and we're ok with that." Problem is, he's failed to describe how this affects his work. If it doesn't, why bother with this point? Why is being concious of this part of your formula? When I try to fill in the blanks myself, the conclusion I'm left to draw is that since the player will potentially ignore your stories, don't bother with too much care or detail. Again, Emil doesn't ever answer this or explain his point. It's left without conclusion.

Third major problem is probably the biggest, and that's his own lack of analytical skills in regards to writing. Emil will actually correctly highlight key elements of certain famous movies or novels, or correctly interpret some rules of writing....but then fail to recognize when his own stories, IN HIS OWN WORDS, have missed the point.

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>>382834558
if you knew what i really look like you'd see why that post's hysterical

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>>382830935
>The one you find if you really care and dig deep? Yes

What do you believe it is?

>>382835239
Great example: at one point he's praising some of his favorite stories, such as Casablanca. He will identify that Casablanca is about "sacrifice." I've actually not seen Casablanca, but seeing as "sacrifice" seems like a good theme worthy of a story, I'll give him benefit of the doubt. He names some other quick examples (all of which I'm unfamiliar with, unfortunately), but there's a pattern in the key story elements, themes and motifs he's highlighting. "Sacrifice." "Isolation." "Self-Discovery." One example is the Incredibles movie, which I'm not sure I'd use as an example of storytelling, and he names the theme as "family." To provide some examples of my own? Death of a Salesman is about the death of the American Dream, Importance of Being Earnest is a criticism of the Victorian (?) era and misplaced values.

Emil then describes Skyrim and Fallout 4 summarized in his own words: "Dragons." "Messiah." "Androids." "Suspicion."

Noticing the problem?

When he's praising works like Casablanca, he's using a broad concept. "Sacrifice" is broad and ambiguous, and as such, has multiple elements to it. Or great example? Fallout itself. Fallout's theme is war. That tagline is not fluff, that tagline exists for a reason. Fallout explores the paradox that although every living man can admit war is wrong, you'll seldom find a point of time in history where a war is not being fought. Why? You could write MANY novels about this, and the answer to that question has not actually been discovered by humanity itself. Fallout is such a good franchise because it actually has a recurring theme and a recurring motif.

>>382834971

>triggers the Stormcuck

figures lol

>>382835562
But when Emil steps up to plate...? "Dragons." "Androids." These are not broad concepts, these are not even ideas. These are things. A key, core concept needs to be ambiguous. It needs to be an idea, it needs to be a thought, it needs to be an emotion or it needs to be about a rich, diverse culture. If it's something simple like "dragons," guess what, there's not enough material to work with to make a compelling story.

Even when Emil picks a broad concept, he picks "suspicion," and names an example of being scared of the boogeyman as a child. Of all emotions and feelings, I daresay Emil somehow found the most infantile. Like really, I'm asking seriously: can someone think of a less interesting human emotion/feeling than suspicion? Even "Lust" spawns dozens of trashy romance novels.

Another good example is "Messiah." Messiah COULD be interesting if done correctly. For example, think of "hero." Yknow who does "hero" as a concept poorly? Superman. Yknow who does it exceedingly well? Batman. Batman often gets criticial acclaim, and you know why? Batman moves beyond the acts and the motions of a hero, and instead chooses to ask "what does it mean to be a hero," turning it more into a concept and a philosophical thought. As we know, Skyrim fails to do this with "messiah."

This is a serious problem. Their lead writer cannot differentiate between concepts and things. Sure enough, the focus of his stories are things rather than exploring concepts.

Final problem? Emil himself repeatedly correctly identifies or interprets literary concepts....but then blatantly violates them. Great example is he discussed "write what you know" and said if you work as a dishwasher, this doesn't mean write about washing dishes. No, the intent is more write about the experiences you know, focused more on emotional experiences and thought experiences, not action experiences.

>>382830671
Fuck no

>>382835945
Washing dishes is just an act, so he's right. Chris Avellone for example often writes about things he hates or things that depress him. I'm sure he's probably had a lot of sorrowful nights, and that makes me wanna hug Avellone, but all the same? It gives him a very broad range of things to write about, the only consistent theme being Avellone's ideas will usually challenge or upset you rather than inspire you or make you happy. Josh Sawyer uses his experiences as a history major, which while broad, is more factual and informative knowledge than emotional. It meshes excellently with the theme of war and with Fallout, but I'll confess for example that I found Pillars of Eternity's main storyline to be "meh," precisely because he left that comfort zone, which unfortunately limits him to all subjects historical.

Now what does Emil say he has experience in?

"Stabbing people. I worked on Thief II."

Holy fucking shit. Emil, how on earth is "stabbing people" any different from "washing dishes?" Both are acts devoid of thought or emotion!! Stabbing people could have emotion and thought put into it, but we all know through experience with his writing that he didn't.

Another example of him contradicting himself is that one of his steps of writing is "Keep it Simple." (he adds "stupid" at the end so he can turn it into a K.I.S.S. acronym and pat himself on the back for how fucking brilliant and clever he is for thinking of that) Thing is, while this can work in the right context, I feel as though keeping it simple contradicts his speeches of praise for Casablanca and the others. With all of them, he says there's an INITIAL impression of a simplistic story, but when you dig deeper there's a bigger theme such as "sacrifice." Yep. Correct Emil. So why are we keeping it simple? As usual, don't expect an answer.

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I wish Skyrim was more accurate to the concept art. Even some of the later designs were abandoned.
>the blades are akaviriboos with katanas and dragon insignia everywhere
>lets make them have a badass eastern temple as their stronghold
>nah let's do the generic european thing again like oblivion

>>382836175
Enjoying the wall of text anon but a small point.
The K.I.S.S complaint is meant to come off as a smarmy dismissal of an inferior mind.
One small problem that acronym has been around forever and you sound a little ill informed and foolish by not knowing that.
Drop that bit of petulance and you are golden.

Now rock on you're doing great.

>>382835927

but I play as a Dunmer almost every single time, I'm already a Nordic person irl :)

I can’t wait to stockpile books in Skyrim and read them in my comfy house in VR

>>382838360
The stories in elder scrolls games range between okay by rpg standards to very good in the background lore but it doesn't matter when the presentation is so ass. Everything from the great oblivion gate near Bruma or whatever being a backyard brawl and the facial animations being slightly below average and the lack of tangible choice really eat away at the interest and fun and immersion factor.

>>382830671
It's basically a tutorial for the shouts, it's barely there. The side content is leagues above it

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So which of you guys killed Paarthunax and restored the Blades and which of you forgave him for his help and brushed the Blades off? I restored the Blades. I didn't like having to do it, but I felt as the Last Dragon Born killing off every Dragon was partially my job.

Also was Skyrims orcish armor any good in your opinion? I much preferred Morrowinds general aesthetic, but I guess the Mongolian thing Skyrim's had going wasn't to bad. Weapons were utter shite though.

>>382830671
It's decent. Hoping the morrowind story captures my imagination more though.

>>382833820
If they act like a spic, they are a spic, no matter what race they are. Just like you can be white and still act like a dirty nigger.

>>382839593
It won't. It suffers from the same problem. It has a very interesting subplot that you can plainly see from the surface of the main quest, and that the game desperately wants you to dig in to, but at the end of the day the Main Quest is just another generic "An Ancient Evil has Awoken and the Gods have Chosen YOU to be our Hero" deal

>>382839842
>but at the end of the day the Main Quest is just another generic "An Ancient Evil has Awoken and the Gods have Chosen YOU to be our Hero" deal
Fuck. I was hoping there would be more to it. I'd been hankering for a more dice like system of an rpg and thought of morrowind. I've enjoyed it so far but was hoping the DEEPEST LORE I always see people shit post about would be there and do what skyrim couldnt do for me.

>>382839354
It's almost impossible to roleplay the Dovahkiin as anything but a dumb mercenary brute, so sure.

>>382834498
Alduin thought you were just some fucko who couldn't hurt him because you had to literally rip open time and invade the afterlife to get him.

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I never understood why they would create all this interesting lore like Ulfric being a double agent, Legion prepping for round 2 against the Thalmor and Dragonborn/Alduin being Akatosh spawn, and then disregard all that and deliver a shitty generic muh chosen / muh badass nord wikings dindu nufin story.

>>382840523
All the Dragons should have been their own unique characters instead of glorified Cliff Racers. I fucking loved talking to Paarthunax and Alduin in their mixed dragon tongue. Why couldn't every dragon camping a Word Wall have a little tidbit about their character, what they did during the Dragon War, and what their connection to the Word was.

>>382840750
Because as stated above, thats what every Elder Scrolls game has always been since the series started. Extremely interesting and meta lore all hidden under a shallow surface of "Muh Chosen One"

Got any rare Todds?

>>382840750
but he wasn't a double agent?

Skyrim is one of the greatest games ever made.

>>382841208
>>382840750
Because most people don't actually play the main stories of these games.

>>382830935
Oh please, you fucking gaylord. It's just Skyrim.

>>382830671
>You are the Drago the Dragon-Borne
>I used to be an adventurer like you
>until I took
>LE
>ARROW
>TO
>LE
>KNEE

>>382841208
>Morrowind's Chosen one isn't clear cut and you spend the game running around convincing people that you're Nerevarine
>In Oblivion you're the guy helping the chosen one fill his destiny
>In Skyrim you're the screaming man who is the only one who can actually kill a dragon and save the frozen shithole

>>382834038
As much as this meme is repeated, it doesn't make it true.

>>382842627
And you'll notice that Morrowind is as boring as balls until you finally get the Chosen One thing going.

>>382840428
Don't worry he doesn't know what the fuck he's talking about.

>>382839354
>kill Paarthurnax or fuck off and die lol

Nah, the Blades could get fucked for all I cared for. Paarthurnax was bro-tier anyways.

>>382842627
The game literally starts with a token prophecy directed at your character during a dream.

I wish I could get all the loli modding working right. Everything is too fucking complicated. The enhanced edition looks like pants too. If I could get it looking fucking awesome I'd get a 1080Ti just to play it on.

>>382845847
http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Failed_Incarnate
Like these guys?

>>382846630
All dungmer.
Any surprise they failed?

>>382830935
>Find random book in abandoned fort turned bandit hideout #346
>Book contains detailed account over an entire war and how the fort was a resupplying port fortress that came under siege over 1,000 years ago
It's pretty neat at points.

>>382839354
The role of the dragonborn isn't just "lol kill all the dragons XD" Paarthunax had redeemed himself and actually thought things out, unlike those rash blades did who weren't any better than mercenaries imo

>>382841858

The meme's existed since Skyrim released. It's proof that "gamers" have incredibly poor reading comprehension.

>>382834759
>trans kalpic
Fucking hell I hate Dream immigrants

>>382846630
>elder scrolls wikia
Absolutely fucking disgusting

>>382834805
>You may say "he said himself he's not a great speaker, he could just be socially awkward," and hey that's understandable,

actually, I'm having a pretty hard time understanding why a self-proclaimed
socially awkward introvert would be the prime choice for such a large game studio as their lead writer for dialogue. Kinda gives me an instant migraine thinking about it.

>>382836175
masterful analysis, Todd. I'm glad you took the time to write this. I look forward to you firing Emil and replacing him with the Obsidian writing team.

>>382852108
The current Obsidian writers are Bioware tier.
All the talent is gone.

>>382838360
one small gripe I have with the books is that you can't flip to the front or back covers when you flip through them. you can only go as far back as the Cover page and as far forward as the last page of text.

>>382852108
Bring back Rolston, Peterson and Kirkbride and suddenly everything is improved tenfold

>>382840439
I agree. The player's only real shining skill is how efficient they are at killing anything in their way, which is honestly misleading because you can't be bad at killing everything in a bethesda game bc if you die you just reload again and again until you get it right. There are no consequences for failure other than death because every quest devolves into life or death
>"clear this cave full of draugr bandit dragons and retrieve my groceries for me while I sit in the same spot doing nothing"

When every situation is life or death, but death is essentially meaningless, then what is the point? Why can't there be a chance for a death alternative? Maybe you get taken prisoner by bandits or necromancers. Maybe you turn into a slave and activates a quest for you to find freedom. Maybe a companion finds and heals you while you were down, and your choice to bring them along really paid off. idk, but these aren't really complex things to put into a game.

Maybe they should stop letting your player be the "chosen one" for like seven different factions, and stop being the grocery fetcher for every other essential npc. Maybe when you choose NOT to do things asked of you, a timer goes off and that quest is OVER, instead of suspending magically and timelessly the disbelief that somehow things cannot progress until you fetch object x from draugr cave x.

>>382841064
agreed. In the way you describe it, you would think the DRAGON PRIESTS aka the 2nd in commands, where the main antagonists and not the dragons themselves lol

>>382843121
Morrowind drops you into a world and tells you to do whatever you want, and the main sequence of events doesn't kick off until you progress your character quite a bit. Which is the perfect way to do it imo, it gives players the chance to explore and be the type of character they want to be without forcing them to be the chosen one.

Morrowing does get a lot of things wrong, like their movement mechanics (le walking simulator) their combat (can't even kill a rat at level 1 after 100 swings) and locking you into a class at the beginning with no clear explanation on how to play (some of the class choices are absolutely useless)

But as far as being "too boring" it's really only boring bc the combat is broken and the movement is slow. It's not fun to play until you can actually swing and hurt your enemies and when your speed is up.

There used to be a rubber band cheat to get your speed up and a cheat code to heal your character on Xbox. I used to do those two things before doing anything else so that I could play the game proper.

>>382843767
this

>some old fartbag who literally spent the last decade in a ratshit infested sewer wants me to off the ONLY friendly dragon left in the universe, who also doubles as my true mentor in the way of the voice, and the only surviving dragon who rebelled against Alduin the first time and succeeded.

That dirty, paranoid old fuckhead can get fucked desu

>>382852310
>Kirkbride

this x1000

just replace Emil with Kirkbride. Same salary, hell I bet Kirk would take a paycut for the chance to nurse his baby back to health.

>>382852278
damn that's sad to hear.

I will say that as of Morrowind and Skyrim, and Solstheim, Bethesda can really BUILD an enjoyable setting, like their map building and dungeon building is top tier. As of Skyrim, they finally got a good skills-building system down, and the combat is getting better. If they can really nail COMBAT (dodging and target locking are a MUST) then they still have my wallet.

>>382854027
>Kirkbride and Kuhlmann working together in the same room again
YES YES YES

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I want to get back into Skyrim (No, I haven't religiously played it like other folk) and the SKSE for the 64-bit version seems to have been abandoned. Should I keep waiting for is the wait not worth it?

Also holy fuck the concept art for Skyrim is fucking awesome

>>382853581
>can't even kill a rat at level 1 after 100 swings
Your weapon skill must be below 15 or something for that to happen. Why would you have a skill that low and still expect your character to be able to do shit in combat? It's RPG, you know.
>locking you into a class at the beginning
You can create your own class and have no reason not to. Especially if you have played Daggerfall before.
Also, every skill has a detailed description, which you can read BEFORE you finish choosing your class.
>movement mechanics
Well, they sucked, it's easily the main flaw of the game. This and magic being weak as fuck compared to melee. And the gap got wider as the level got higher.

>>382852876
Dialogue is a big part of it. All your responses are stupid, or come off as trying to hard (see Dark Brotherhood or Thieve's Guild), and everyone around you seems to treat you like a useful idiot. I know that they were going for the whole Morrowind outlander thing, but it honestly feels like people are being rude to me because my player character is an idiot.

Reminding me about that, in Morrowind, it was so vague that it didn't really matter. The NPC quest givers seemed to treat you with some respect or competency though, certainly not like the "I can't believe I'm dealing with this idiot" vibe. Some of the questlines or instructions relied on the Nerevarine being pretty sharp.

In Oblivion, everyone else came off as an idiot, but your player character wasn't too bad, and there were a few quests where the Champion got to show off some craftiness (DB and TG questlines).

Skyrim seems to want to push you towards big dumb Nord barbarian. The Dragonborn's solution to everything is to brute force it. Even in situations that don't warrant it. Take one of the quests where some old widow owes money for the Jarl. Does the Dragonborn convince her to give it to him like the Nereverine does in a similar quest (a legion questline, I believe), or steal it from her like in Oblivion? No, your only choice is to confront her, then beat her up in a fistfight. Not only did it look ridiculous, it felt so so thugish.

Also, murdering 40 bandits/forsworn/mages/refugees on the other side of the world to retrieve some rude, ungrateful jackass's bronze trinket for 100 septims always takes me out of it. I'm not one of those bleeding hearts, but New Vegas, Witcher, and Morrowind always felt like there was justification for violence, and it was never excessive. I guess that's because they went through the effort of actually characterizing badguys, and furthermore, the quest stakes usually warranted a lethal response, whereas Skyrim mostly goes "Bandit - Kill!"

>>382854721
Morrowind actually justified its hyper aggressive smugglers and bandits. The criminal underworld had been corrupted by the 6th House, and many of the bandits you meet are halfway to being sleepers. It's actually why you sometimes find Ash Statues in smuggler dens.

>>382854693
>Should I keep waiting for is the wait not worth it?

It's not coming. Either give up and mod without SKSE64 or go back to original Skyrim.

>>382843121
You weren't the Chosen One in Oblivion. People apparently didn't like that.

>>382854721
My impression of Skyrim is that most of the focus in its development was heavily weighted towards gimmicky and flashy stuff at the expense of everything else. The radiant quest system, "living" towns and cities, graphics and voice acting, etc. One area where they cut corners to make room for other things, that became really noticeable when I my character became a vampire, is just how few npc's there are in the game. It's actually really hard to find sleeping people to feed on because there aren't many people, period.

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>>382834130
why am i laughing at this abomination?