Bad game design thread

OP is a retarded faggot

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>>382764971
A good chunk of levels in the original Crash, plus the saving system.

still loved the game and it's my favorite in the series

>>382764971
I wouldn't say it's that bad. There's a platform on the outside, and paths leading up and down, so it doesn't take much brainpower to figure out that you're somehow supposed to be able to get out there. But, you're never told or even hinted at how. You'll just have to test everything in your inventory, which isn't exactly good.
If you were to come across a broken tube first, it wouldn't be that bad, but unfortunately I don't think you can get to the other one without breaking this one first.

>>382765241
>>382765326
Cool it hot heads

Game Overs

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what the fuck were they thinking

>>382765389
>If you were to come across a broken tube first, it wouldn't be that bad, but unfortunately I don't think you can get to the other one without breaking this one first.
That's wrong though. The broken tube (which is the only other object in the game to use the same tileset) is mandatory if you're coming through the Wrecked Ship and eastern Crateria, is broken and is literally two rooms away from the tube you're supposed to break.
You also get the map data for Maridia, which indicates that there's a bunch of rooms just outside that tube.
It's really not hard to figure out that the tube is breakable.

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>What, you want to know the solution of this puzzle? You should have bought the NES game with the names of all the monsters then, faggot
Bravo Miyamoto

>>382765701
Even if you don't know the names of the monsters, it's not rocket science. Kill them in a specific order. There's only 3 enemies, so there's only 6 possibilities.

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the lowest-hanging of fruit

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Better question is: How were you supposed to know you can bomb the wall on the right? (Right before fighting Kraid and having it show up on the map)

>>382766262
The map room is way earlier in Brinstar, shouldn't it show up on the map?

>>382765701
Trail and error isn't an excuse. It just shows that the puzzle is ineherently flawed because it requires information that aren't in the game to be solved.

>>382766412
For
>>382766217

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>>382765253
>The Highroad and The Road to Nowhere

>>382766412
The information about enemy names was in the manual. You know what a manual is, right?

>>382766391
I might be incorrect, but it only shows the location of the boss room and not how to get there. I always have to look up a walkthrough for this part and I've beaten the game at least five times.

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>tfw I beat Super Metroid weeks ago on my 3DS for the first time without using any guide.

The only thing I searched for were the exact wall jumping controls because I was tired of triying with those fucking green chimps laughing at me.

How were you supposed to know how to wall jump in Super Metroid?

>>382766901
You really don't need a guide for SM if you pay attention, the tube is debatable i guess.

>>382766970
You don't need it. The only time it's mandatory is when you get the tutorial.

>>382766970
The animals teach you.

>>382764971
You're kidding, right?

>>382767093
But the tutorial doesn't tell you how to control when doing a wall jump.

>>382767012
Yeah, the only time I got stuck and had to wander aimlessly for 2 hours was because I missed a yellow door in Norfair, like an idiot.

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>>382766974
>Look it up since not familiar with the game
>Find this

This is some next level faggotry. Though I guess it's to be expected from Phil fucking Fish

>>382764971
Your brain.

>>382767160
The sprite changes to tell you when you should do the jump input.

How does the Space Jump work? Feels like the game is only registering half of my inputs.

>>382767367
You're supposed to press jump again after you start to fall down. But you can't leave it too late, or else it won't register.

>>382767160
Idk it didn't seem that hard to me, i can see that maybe if its your first "wall jump" mechanic in any video game it can be confusing i guess.

>>382766262
>>382764971
Old fuck here, as a kid, after getting the morphball bomb shit I always bombed the living fuck out of every little square or suspicious area looking for secrets. The thing is the game teaches you to look for these things along the way, so by the time you're revisiting areas you're in " i wonder" mode anytime you see any squares or wall corners.

The underwater tube was found by me noticing that platform and using all my weapons until It suddenly exploded with the powerbomb. Was an amazing experience I pity others couldn't go through, that sucks for them. It didn't always work on suspicious shit though, like the orange samus colored monster that follows your movement, that shit drove me insane.

It's just one of those " i'm going to morphball into the palm of every chozo statue's hand every time just in case" situations

>>382766974
>>382767213
Dumbest shit ever right here

>>382765573
>The broken tube (which is the only other object in the game to use the same tileset) is mandatory if you're coming through the Wrecked Ship and eastern Crateria, is broken and is literally two rooms away from the tube you're supposed to break.
No. The rooms leading to and from this path connecting Norfair and lower Brinstar have no broken tube. To the left is lower Brinstar(red area) with the vertical shaft you fall down and are supposed to get the ice beam to get back up, while on the right you have the Norfair elevator and the small area leading to Kraid. The broken tube is up to the right, past the first part of Maridia, leading to the lower parts of Wrecked Ship. You don't pass through that area on the way since you go down in Norfair to get the Power Bombs, then back up to the tube.

>>382764971
>>382766262
Idk what the fuck is yalls problem. I played super metroid recently for the first time and even I was able to figure this shit out. The only thing I can seriously gripe on as far as being hidden and cryptic as fuck in this game is that one invisible wall that doesn't show anything when using the x ray visor. That was some cheep crap right there.

>>382767934
You don't need to break the tube until after you have beaten Phantoon in the Wrecked Ship - in which case you should be entering Maridia from eastern Crateria, and will be finding the broken tube.

>>382766226
Cleared that with a Tremere easily. People talk about the sewer as if it's difficult or something but I can only see that being the case if you're a Ventrue (no rats).

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Can you even guess which one this is?

>>382768474
Bleak Falls

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I've never come across a game with such little thought put into design.

>Just explore everything lol!
>It's cryptic! Not retarded!

Okay, but how the fuck were you supposed to know how to super jump (jumping after sprinting to jump very high)?

>>382768921
Are you asking how you were supposed to know to do a running jump in a platformer?

>>382769005
I mean in Super Metroid, sorry.

>>382769005
super jump is different, you have to speed boost, then duck, then jump. The game doesn't explain it really clearly.

>>382769267
That's a shinespark, which is something different.
Which is also explained to you by the way. The Dachora does that.

>>382768474
wait a minute that claw...

That fucking bell puzzle in bioshock infinite

OP IS A FAGGOT

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>>382764971

>>382769465
I STILL can't figure out that one.

>>382769509
This whole game is poorly designed.
But I love it so much.

>>382765701
I see much worse the part of the exchanges

>>382766262
I figured this out but couldn't find the ice beam without a guide. I had to wall jump to climb the long shaft leading to the power bomb

Felt like an idiot afterwards

>>382769523
how to ruin a perfect game

>>382766837
People who struggle with Super Metroid have a learning disability, it is a game that doesn't straight out explain shit to you by long and exhausting tutorials, but rather just by giving you a new thing and a lot of opportunities to try it out, it provides you with an infinite amount of smaller bombs that you immediately learn can destroy some blocks and sometimes you accidently uncover secret blocks. As soon as you get the bombs the game subtly teaches you to place them all over the fucking place. There are parts where the game locks you off, tricks you into a spot and leaves you there until you figure out to angrily spam the bombs until you are free

With the knowledge of being able to destroy blocks with the bombs and along the way you learned that there are sometimes hidden destructible blocks, just by being provided infinite bombs you are encouraged to cover the entire fucking place in bombs if you are lost and there is an item later on that is literally an x-ray scope to see secret blocks.

tl;dr just wanted you to know that you are all fucking idiots and you deserve all the bad things that happen in your life

>>382765571
What exactly is the issue here

>>382764971
Ive just finished Super Metroid for the first time, and im pretty sure you dont need to break the tube, you can do the whole level from the other entrance you come in naturally from

>>382769559
pro-tip: the order in which you have to ring the bells, is explained on that card that you are handed immediately before the puzzle

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>>382769523

>>382764971
That fucking tube, good grief, as a kid I spent so many weeks at a impasse because of this fucking thing.

Devs should have put a crack on the tube and added a leaking animation.

>>382769961
It's mandatory to break the tube unless you use the green gate glitch.

>>382769965
Wait a minute... that card? It's starting to make sense but it's still overly convoluted

>>382769993
elaborate

>>382768474
Well I guess that backfired.
>>382769403
>>382768547

There's that tube section in mission 003 (I think) in Wonderful 101 where the camera completely fucks you over. I don't know what they were thinking.

Also that part where it's only Red and Blue which is interesting the first time around from a narrative standpoint but it's pure button mashing.

>>382768605
t. brainlet

>>382764971
So why doesn't the game show you that something happens when you attack it with stuff?
That should be enough to tell you that you can break it.

I just want you to know that you're all retarded, the tube didn't give me as a small child any problem, nor anyone else I knew. The fact the terrain is different should prompt even the slowest of idiots to try to break it.

>>382766901
Same here, but not even exactly that. I actually only looked up that I, in fact, had to wall jump there. I couldn't quite get the controls right and started wondering if that was what I was supposed to do. The confirmation was enough that I kept trying and finally found out how.

>>382770129
Because it's already obviously breakable by the fact it's made of glass, and you can see there is an outside to it.

It would be bad design if it WASNT breakable, not the other way around

>>382770129
The power bomb is the goto tool for opening passageways.

>>382770046
Long, tedious, unmanageable, rails that electrocute, confused, annoying, break the rhythm of the game....

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Putting a boss like this into a game was just wrong. It plays nothing like the rest of the game and doesn't work well with the controls. Also there's no indication of what you are doing wrong when you fail to counter the charge attack. Dropped the game there.

>>382764971
The only problem with the tube is that there is a delay between the bomb going off and the glass breaking, during which you can leave the screen and come back with nothing happening.

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These fucking claw puzzle doors in Skyrim, it didn't come into my mind to look at the item model in the inventory to figure out that the fucking symbols are on the claws, too, until some NPC in one of the civil war quests randomly spelled it out for me. That was the last quest line that I did in my playthrough and I've opened so many of these doors just by trial and error before.

>>382769792
>Not wanting (or finding it fun) to spend hours bombing every single pixel in the game is now considered a learning disability.

>people still falling for this b8

>>382770363
There's a brief delay before the glass cracks.
If you move at all once it's cracked, it shatters.

>>382770406
You only have a learning disability if you bomb every pixel in the game.
All the ways forward are subtly signposted.

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>>382764971
>>382766262
You are like little babies.

>>382770447
The delay between it starting to crack is the problem I have with it. Once the bomb detonates it should crack if you leave the screen, doing it the way they did is just shitty design and probably got a few laughs at Nintendo back in the day.

>>382766901
i needed it for the powerups in the quicksand

>>382770597
not mandatory

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The slopes.
This was legit bullshit and I hated every second.

>>382770660
>getting out of ridley's lair and finishing the game isn't mandatory

>>382770691
You can leave the way you came in.

>>382770597
>hmmm I'm sure this total dead end holds no secrets

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*blocks your path*

>>382766412
Like College?

>>382770683
You didn't use the invisible platforms? Easy as hell to run through once you figured them out.

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Who thought this was a good ending? It felt so abrupt.

>>382766901
Honestly the walljump needs a few more extra frames to indicate when you can, in fact, walljump.
It's something I've always disliked about Super Metroid.

>>382770725
What about every other total dead end with no secrets?
>x-ray scope
>nothing
>power bomb
>nothing
>Oh I know. I'll face check the wall just in case it's the one wall in the entire game that you can walk through for no reason.

>>382765701

Holy shit the nostalgia just now. Fuck that room, I almost stopped playing as a kid because I was an idiot and couldn't figure out how to get the damn key. Took me days combing over every inch of that dungeon thinking I missed something before figuring it out.

Thracia 776 Chapter 22
>LOL INFINITE RANGE STATUS STAVES
>LOL PERMANENT STATUS AILMENTS
>LOL 10 STAR AUTHORITY BONUSES
>LOL 5 BALLISTA RIGHT AT THE START
>LOL CHAD "THUNDERCOCK" HARDT

This chapter boils down to whether you used up all of your Restore, Warp and Rescue staves before reaching it

>>382770792
The invisible platforms are fine, I think he's referring to the ice columns themselves where you can instantly slip off of them by standing on the wrong side, even though it's barely more inclined than the other side.

>>382770862
>Honestly the walljump needs a few more extra frames to indicate when you can, in fact, walljump.
It really doesn't, the window in which the sprite changes and you can walljump is awfully wide.

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>>382770406
>blowing up suspicious walls is the same as bombing every sigle pixel in the game
What is wrong with you? this game was designed to be beaten by little kids.

>>382770961
This. And the unavoidable fall when you realize.
Very frustrating, especially when you are experimenting looking for a path since there's invisible platforms and you might not realize they're there.

>>382770058
reverse image search

>>382771040
He's autistic, he can't use the context of the level design to distinguish between regular walls and obviously suspicious walls

>>382771075
>>382770961
Honestly the four or five times I've beaten DS I've never noticed that, must have just been lucky I suppose.

>>382770379
Until a certain patch i couldn't even move or zoom in on objects in the inventory, that made it even less apparent that i should look there for the solution

Somewhere along the way Path of Exile changed from "find a skill + support combination you like and then break it" to "pick a skill and then stack all the multipliers you can find".

Want to use that cool support gem? Does it have a 'more' on it? No? Then go fuck yourself. The game was so much more interesting when there were only a handful of 'more's and they were all tied to huge downsides like Pain Attunement and Righteous Fire.

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>>382770517
But not every secret
Metroid is all about bombing every wall, not that I mind.
But you know what? I'd rather have that instead of what they do in Zelda 1, in which you have to do the same, with less clues, with very limited bombs.

>>382771040
What was suspicious about this wall?

>>382766262

To me it looks like those three blocks are there to make the wall look visually more interesting. Since one long uniform pipe would look ugly.

>>382770797
Put a question mark after THE END and it would be 11/10 instead of just 10/10.

>>382770797
Kek

>>382771240
The fact that the minimap tells you there's a room behind it.

>>382764971
That bit in Metroid Prime in Phendrana where there's a gate that you can't scan that has a small circular hole that you can't get through using the morph ball, because you're supposed to blow up the gate with missiles even though the game held your hand by letting you scan all the destructible objects up to that point.

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>>382771240
The minimap and that it's different than the one in the previous elevator room because it's formed by blocks.

>>382770379
Honestly the stupidest fucking puzzles. Literally no thinking required.

You should have had to at least learn which claws belonged where instead of just finding them lying around the dungeon

>>382769509
>he doesn't recognize X6 as an ironic meta-commentary on level design

Spotted the plebian

>>382771283
It's possible to get "stuck" there without downloading the map data. You can still escape with walljumping/IBJ but a new player would never pull that off.

>>382765701
That wasn't bad in my country's translation. They didn't use the names from the NES manual and just called them how they look.

>>382770717
Isn't the way you came in filled with an intense amount of lava?

>>382769792
>mindlessly spamming bombs everywhere
Wow, great game design.

>>382770023
>Green Gate
Can't you just drop down the room before it?

>>382771040
>>382771628

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>enemy reinforcements can move the same turn they enter the map
When the fuck was this ever a good idea? Fucking cheap bullshit.

>>382771151
There is tons of slippery slopes in DS. They got a little too excited with Anor Londo, but at least there wasn't slippery slopes.

>>382771283
The minimap doesn't show the hidden room until you find it. It just shows the location of the the boss IIRC. This area right before it is the glass tube, so I thought the boss icon was foreshadowing for the inaccessible area. It's not like Metroid Prime where it directly tells you where to go next.

>>382771394
Ironically, I probably found that wall more suspicious because it sticks out of the pattern formed by the other pipes.

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this here is the shittiest level design ever.
they put a instant kill enemy to block your path, so you won't think of exploring there,
then there's nothing hints that you can get in the egg, not even visual cue.

and not to mention the game's levels is built on backtracking in mind.
cave story is a 7/10 mediocre game, and /v/ have bad tastes on praising it like godsend.

>>382772089
I'm pretty sure all the eggs you could enter had gaps like that you can get into them with. I'd say that's a visual cue.

>>382771194
I remember not being able to inspect the items in the inventory on a day 1 pirate version. I just dropped the claw on the ground and dragged it to see the symbols.

>>382765326
Underage, please

>>382772089
>picking this
>not picking booster 2.0, which is less obvious by a million miles

it's like you didn't even play the game

>>382772089
>no clues
>what are the PCs's error messages
>what are the gaps below the eggs
Took me like 5 minutes to figure out that I had to fix/enter the eggs.

>>382770894
Isn't Thracia that one FE game that's reputed to be fucking impossible? Do you have more instances of downright cruel game design?

>>382771240
You just said it yourself, the wall was visually interesting. Good old school games dont do that kind of thing just to make a wall nice to look at. If youre noticing it, theres usuall a reason.

>>382772089
>No cues
Isn't there a room with computers telling you what eggs are "Abnormal"?

>>382771904
I hate this the most in FE's
Reinforcements are fine, giving them a turn as soon as they appear isn't in a tactics game, there needs to be a turn to at least react.

>>382772089
It's fun little game, not saying it's a masterpiece by any stretch, but you seem to be fucking dumb not figuring that one out when there was tons of hints dropped around. Although I agree it shouldn't have been insta kill enemy.

>>382772705
>It's fun little game, not saying it's a masterpiece by any stretch
look at how many people defending that shitty level design.

also, there's no TONS of hints around.
the only single hint is from the computer mentioning some numbers, it din't even said egg.
and the hint came before you seeing any of the eggs, so u won't think of the eggs when u come to the hints.
this is bad level designs.
fuck off with your bias, /v/

>>382771735
That puts you in the glass tube.

>>382771601
It is, but it's still easy to get through.

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>>382773253
anon, no one but you had a problem with the hints
I've seen a 10 year old playing the game with no problem.

>>382772448
The game literally fucking tells you about booster 2.0, it's Curly Brace which is bullshit.

>>382765389
I'm forever biased against people who say it's bad design because I figured it out on my own. That means all who haven't done so are inferior to me.

>>382773253
If I remember there's a room about halfway through the Egg corridor with a bunch of computers in it. Each computer corresponds to an egg. There are a select few that return "Egg status abnormal" or something.
Maybe it's not "tons" of hints, but it's thorough enough that you don't need any more hints than that. On top of this you see gaps allowing you to enter each egg from the bottom of the Egg corridor itself.
tl;dr you're to intelligent for this game.

>>382766262
Because it just LOOKS bombable
What the fuck

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>>382766262
The map shows there's something over there. Hell, the map IN YOUR PICTURE shows it.

>>382768474
I can see the spider webs right there

>>382773253
I'm literally terrible at this kind of thing in games but I had no problem with this.

>>382769889
I had the same thing happen to me. The problem is that killing the guy who planted the bomb isn't enough since talking to Jock just lets you take off, after killing the guy you then need to go back into the Illuminati room, talk to one of the people (Can't remember who), then you have to go verify that the engineer doesn't work there, and only then are you allowed to tell Jock about A BOMB. He died on my playthrough because I thought killing the engineer was enough.

>>382764971
I DON'T UNDERSTAND how people can have a problem with this

There's clearly passages above and below it - how the fuck else were you supposed to get to them?

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>>382773345

>>382770006
... The tube IS cracked.

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>>382772481
Holy shit yes, recruiting Xavier in chapter 18. On the room on the left there are 6 green civilian units that need to be escorted to six specific red armor knights on the center of the map. On the center of the map there are 12 knights in total, but half of those are generics. Each green unit must approach a specific knight which in turn will turn it into a green unit. After all of the green units have talked to there respective knight, Leif must talk to Xavier, a general that spawns in the carpeted area to recruit him, only if none of the knights or civilians died.
Also, there are some really weak soldiers around the map with terrible AI; they literally walk up to you to die. In order to get a bonus item at the end, all of them must be alive.

>>382773874
We can all see the OP m8, it's not cracked until you bomb it.

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>>382773842
FYI, there's another area with clear passages above and below it but the only way to access them is to go the fuck around and find another way.

The problem with the tube is that unlike all the other intractable blocks in the game, when you normal bomb it it doesn't reveal jack shit, which leads you to believe that like the area in my picture, the correct answer is to find another way

>>382773890
Also, this chapter has some thieves running away with some very useful items, aided by 4 dancers. If I'm not mistaken, Thracia 776 is the only game in the series to feature enemy dancers.

>>382772089
>No visual clues
>We can literally see one in the picture he posted (gap below the egg)

You're even worse than the tubefags.

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>be really REALLY bad at video-games because all you do is watch others playing and spout pseudo-intellectual video-game shit as if they knew a thing about anything in the first place
>lel bad design xdd
every
fucking
time

>>382764971
If I remember correctly, don't your see an already broken one in another spot nearby.
I believe I just tried everything until I unlocked power bombs which worked.

>>382773890
Sounds like the average classic FE secret.

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>>382774167
>game designers are infallible and nothing they do is allowed to be questioned

>>382768921
The fucking animal shows you how to do it all the fucking time as you're struggling to get it right, I can't believe people are actually this fucking stupid.

>>382773387
It's super unintuitive that the right decision when your friend crashes down in front of your face is to ignore him. That's the only way to save him, by not helping him.

>>382774182
>already

Not quite, the broken tube might be close on the map, but it's really far away gameplay wise.
You first encounter the tube on your way to Norfair or Kraid's Lair, they're both over there.
You won't see the broken one until after you've got the Ice Beam gone back up to the surface, gone to the Crashed Ship, killed Phantoon, gone out the other side of the Crashed Ship and into the upper section of Maridia. Then you see the broken tube and get dumped back out near the one you're suppose to break.

>>382774391
Where is it that?

>>382774283
>professional game designers know less than some rando on yt making clickbait videos
you fell for the memers' tricks, kid

>>382774402
Correct, which is why the game literally tells you that you have to do something differently regarding him.

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>>382773667
Thanks for the clip. I guess the other anon was right, I get stuck in that area before getting to download the map.

My screenshot was from my finished save. Here's where I always drop and then can't get back up due to not having the ice beam.

Some of you guys are faggots that either never read the instruction manual or only play this game on emulation.

The fucking manual itself says to try and bomb everything when in doubt, just like how the Zelda II manual says "when all else fails use fire". The tools to the solution are within the fucking game. If I was able to figure this shit out at 10 years old with no internet access, you chucklefucks should be able to figure this shit out.

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>>382764971

>>382774469
Pink Brinstar tunnel

There's a trap if you speed boost through the long straight away where you end up in a hole with an animal and the only way out is learning to shinespark

>>382774573
So this is the power of Dark Souls...

>>382774493
Since when did I watch clickbait videos by rando's on youtube? I hate that shit. But it's kind of naive to believe that game designers make perfect decisions 100% of the time.

>>382773794

>He died on my playthrough because I thought killing the engineer was enough.

Should have stuck with the prod.

>>382765571
>>382773794
pic is from pre-Hong Kong mission to escape MJ12 branch office, not the substantially later end of Paris thing with A BOMB in the chopper.

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>>382774571
In most instances, using a bomb will in fact reveal what destroys an object, but it doesn't do that for the tube.

>>382774575
Does it tell you you're supposed to speed boost, crouch and then jump to the desired direction?

>>382774646
We're police so I thought it was okay.

>>382774716
Those are the exact motions the animal goes through, so yes?

>>382774716
It doesn't show desired direction, but it shows straight up.


It runs, crouches then jumps straight up.

>>382771221
Fuck Zelda 1's secrets, especially when they hid Heart Containers behind them.
>Now you have to bomb ever bush including the Lost Woods because you don't know.
>Have to bomb every single pixel of every single wall just in case with such a piss poor amount of bombs.
They hated kids and wanted them to call into the Nintendo Hotline, that's the only reasoning I can think of.

>>382774667

It's classic Nintendo design though, once you acquire an item. You're going to be required to use it in a situation soon immediately to solve a puzzle or open a new way.

>>382774232
The thing is that you'd have to go out of your way NOT to kill them because they block off some hallways and they are quite suicidal.

>>382773253
You are retard.

The entire level is designed to have eggs in it. Those fucking eggs take half a screen for one thing. There is pathway at the bottom of the map, which obviosuly can be walked. The enemy there clearly shows that you can move there, it even draws attention to it from the beginning of the map. Quite sure there was cutscene before that egg map where they mentioned the eggs. There is entire room build around to point out few of the eggs are abnormal with huge red exclamation marks. How fucking blind you have to be not to see anything in game when you are playing it.

>>382770730
I died more to the 2nd version of this guy than anything else in the game barring White Palace.

>>382774879
>>382771221

The game did come with a map alongside the instruction manual with "?" in the areas where the maps had secrets.

>>382764971
I wouldn't call it bad design, but I sure as hell didn't suspect it of being a passage. Like yeah I had the Power Bombs just nothing gelled in my mind to try it on the tube.

>>382774927
But the tube isn't "after" acquiring the Power Bombs.
You would have to backtrack to it, which there's no reason to do because the path forward to the Wrecked Ship is accessible, so you aren't stuck yet.

>>382775216
This would have been nice to know when I played it. My first experience was on the 3DS and once I got to level 5 or 6 I just got fed up with being left in the dark not knowing what the hell I had to bomb in rooms with enemies that did 2+ hearts to me that respawned I resorted to maps. Fuck level 9 as well by the way, that entire dungeon has far too many bombable walls.

>>382774879
Thank you anon. You know how good it feels to read this after years of people justifying such poor design and praising Zelda 1 for being "mysterious", "all about experimentation" and because " it doesn't hold your hand".

It has a couple of plain terrible decisions in an otherwise pretty fun game.

>>382774927
>requiring players to learn meta rules about a companies design chocies
this is bad design, but not in regards to the tube.

In OPs example the map even shows that there's a path upwards and downwards. Even a monkey would try to use everything in their power to progress, but with how infrequent super bomb drops are you're disinclined to experiment with them. That being said, there aren't very many rooms that have such a cryptic way to progress. It's casual filter, simple as that.

>>382775321
good thing theres a fucking map for when you get stuck

>>382771904
>>382772508
I'm curious how you feel about XCom's letting them move and get to cover on the turn the enemies arrive/ are discovered.

>>382773890
This video doesn't try to do the optional obectives, but it gives you a better idea of the chapter layout

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pgII720BTdc

>>382775431
I wish they would just spawn in cover instead of making me watch a stupid goddamn cutscene every single time

>>382775431
I hate it, and I like Xcom 2's use of a concealed scout to circumvent it.

>>382764971
>clearly a crystal tube that looks like it can be shattered
>"hmm regular bombs don't do anything, wonder if the power bomb will"

that was hard

>>382773439
I know what you mean. I'm retarded, so if I figured it out and he didn't, then he muse be brain dead.

>>382775216
it's still bullshit, anon
I'm not saying Zelda wasn't ahead of its time, but it hasn't aged that well if you need an extra source of information to beat it. It's the same with Castlevania 2

>>382771904
>Start Awakening on Hard which I never do on any Fire Emblem
>That one mission early on where you get the mage kid and the cleric girl and Wyverns come from the top and spawn directly on top of them and can move and attack the instant they arrive which is like two turns in when it's almost impossible to get out of the general vicinity.
>Wyvern Riders can one-shot a good chunk of your team at that point.

>>382775404
>good thing theres a fucking map for when you get stuck

Yeah, because that's a 100% indicator that you can break it
>>382774029

>>382775357

Everyone who always criticizes the random obscure secret shit in Zelda I always ask them if they played on emulation/other platforms or if they played it with the original NES with instruction manual and game map and I always emphasises the last bit. And to be fair they are fair criticisms because many many games back then had clues within the instruction manual to give you hints to beat the early levels and to get you figuring out puzzle solving. If you just jump in without any of these resources available to you, well it becomes frustrating.

Another example I can give is Robocop 2 on the NES. To beat the levels in each game of Robocop 2 you need to destroy 60% of the Nuke drugs in the level and arrest 60% of the perps in the stage. Problem is that in the first stage there's not even enough Nuke to meet that criteria in the level so you will fail. If you had the manual though it tells you that there's a secret area to look out for because the tiles will be a different pattern.

>>382772089
It's obvious that you're meant to go there, even if just to explore. It's not like the one hit kill shows up without warning.

>>382775592

Castlevania 2 is the result of really bad translations though it's not quite the same thing with Zelda 1. Back then many games had maps and manuals that tell you how to sort of progress through the early parts of the game like secret areas or small walkthroughs. Zelda 1 was part of the thing.

>>382771221
>you have to burn down a specific tree
>can only use the candle once on any given screen
>have to leave and come back to re-use it

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>>382775816
>later the game gives you a better candle anyway
this game just wanted to upset the players

Wait a second,there's some time since I've played SM so I may be wrong but isn't there another entrance for Maridia?
And doesn't the map shows there's something below/above the tube?
What the fuck

>>382775404

>this is bad design, but not in regards to the tube.

It's not bad design and you're not incline to know the meta rules design of the company. Super Metroid at the very early start has you shooting and bombing everything to try and access new areas. You're using items everywhere all the time and even at various points in the game you learn other things like the various animals teaching you new moves.

When in doubt just use a super bomb in your area.

What is not easily explained and was hard to figure out was the secret move of using the Super Bombs to recharge your health.

>>382776015
There isn't another entrance that lets you get all the way to the boss unless you use a glitch.
The map does show some nearby rooms.

>>382776015
Map showing there's more doesn't mean the tube is breakable

Like in >>382774029
The map also shows more but the blocks there are not breakable

The upper section of Maridia only ends up dumping you back next to the tube due to some silver doors that don't open til you beat Draygon but if you're observant there are the ends of a broken tube along the path that are suppose to be your actual hint

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Here's the tube that >>382776217 is referring to, you see this broken tube not long before being dropped out near the first tube iirc.

>>382776452
The broken tube is literally 2 rooms away.

>>382764971

kek I love when shit like this just shows how intellectually inferior other humans are to me

>be 10 years old
>playing some point and click adventure game
>there's a shop with around 50 random items you could purchase
>dad stuck at some puzzle for like 5+ hours
>figure out the 2 items I need to buy and get past it in 3 minutes

people that had a problem with the super metroid tunnel where there are only like 5 options would never be able to complete a puzzle game like myst or similar

kids these days, psh

>>382776042
>was the secret move of using the Super Bombs to recharge your health.
wut

>>382775686
wow and it's not even a glass tube way to go

>>382776656
>2017
>doesn't know about Crystal Flash

>>382775807
>Castlevania 2 is the result of really bad translations

Wasn't that proven to be wrong? Apparently the original japanese text is just as cryptic.

>>382776656

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=alepBscgUX0

Would not fault you for not knowing about it.

The only way anyone would have a clue is if they watched the demo that plays when you idle at the title screen for a while. You kind of had to guess what the motions were from that.

>>382776656
>acting like what the tile looks like has anything to do with if you can break it or not in a Metroid game.

>>382776909
All the special moves were pretty cool in SM, too bad most people never saw them in game. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VAqfg1E3BUs

>>382776909
>When you have 10 missiles, 10 super missiles, 11 power bombs, and less than 30 units of energy (reserve tanks empty), select the power bombs, morph into the ball, press and hold (L),(R), and down. Continue to hold those, as you press and hold 'fire'.
dude not even watching the demo would help figure out how to do it

thats sick tho i love little secrets like that

>>382776909
It's a bit weird how this was supposedly an important technique story-wise but it's never reappeared in later Metroid games.

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>>382764971
If you watch the demo that plays on the main menu it shows you what do at that part.

>>382769971
What?

>>382776842

Thing about translating from one language to another is that even if you literally translate something it may make absolute zero sense. Sometimes it requires a bit of cultural understanding between the two languages especially when a translation involves colloquialisms, sentence structure between the languages and even the intensity of value of a word in between different cultures. Sometimes there's like word jokes or puns that kind of get lost in translation and don't make sense otherwise.

For example if I was to say to you "Mate I think your friend's about two patties short of a Big Mac." That's just a roundabout way of saying that i'm implying your friend may be retarded or insane. But translating to another language and that phrase may end up was "This friend is missing some Big Mac hamburger meat" which while technically accurate to the statement is completely different to what the meaning was. And if the sentence structure for said language isn't the same the sentence it may literally come out as "Cow meat vanished, this man's friend."

>>382777364
It actually doesn't.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QsIBLOx12KU

The clip you're most probably remembering is actually from a advertisement for the game
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1hGyky77uWE

>>382764971
To be honest I always loved the fact that you have a big obvious way forward after Phantoon into Maridia that is just a big elaborate dead end. But as your scanning the completely blocked map you realize "wait what's that bit of Maridia floating off to the left?" and head back to here. I think its actually kind of brilliant

>>382765701

What is this? Can someone explain this picture?

>>382771221

Here's the thing about Zelda 1: pretty much every screen had ONE secret. It was something you intuitively figured out.

>>382777408
you have to lead a pig to a pile of dirt to get it

I have no idea how anyone discovered that

>>382777710
A bunch of dumb kids went: "lol, didn't read"

There's a written hint that you're suppose to kill the enemies in a certain order, it uses their names, which you might not know, but also describes one as "imprisoned"
Since that gives away the place in the sequence for the one surrounded by blocks, there's actually only 2 combinations you have to test.

>>382764971
There's a part in Zero Mission in Kraid's Lair where you have to jump into an acid pit (that turns out to be fake) in order to progress. The only indicator that something's amiss is that there's an enemy down in the acid, but my first thought when I saw it was that I needed the Varia Suit to go down there and that it wasn't the way forward.

>>382764971
>OP is dumber than six-year-old me
OP, your dumb

>>382777876
Fucking shit I still havent found everything in that game

>>382777710
You have to kill the monsters in a certain order to get a key. There's a sign that tells you what order to kill the monsters in, but since it's a Zelda game they all have retarded names.

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>>382764971

>>382778863
You joke, but the game actually does that for every other piece of destructible terrain in the game if you normal bomb it.
>>382774667

>>382770730
HK was full of bad design.

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>>382777648
Huh, I coulda sworn that's how I learned it. Guess I must've gotten em mixed up.
Good post.

>>382766262
You haven't played metroidvanias enough if you don't shoot everything and everywhere all the time. That's how I figure out all the secrets and hidden passageways.

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>>382778863
noice

>>382772089
>Not the part where you have to avoid the jet pack for the actual ending

Getting the true ending is so hard without a guide, I have no idea how anyone did it.

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This fucking mission in San Andreas. The guy just throws a grenade with no warning

The only thing Super Metroid did wrong was not including a dot on the map screen for every expansion. There are a number of missiles that aren't indicated on the map, which makes 100%ing the game really annoying without a guide. Also sometimes there are two expansions on one screen, which can be annoying.

>>382779356
fucking shit, I hated that one.
if you have frame limiter off, the crates will kill you when you jump up them

>>382778863
>"wait a minute. That card......."

>>382779106
Shooting that wall does nothing, and needing to bomb everything is bad design

>>382779945
Map says there's more stuff over there -> try bombing the wall since bombs reveal if things can be broken except the fucking tube -> it shows the super missile symbol

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>Ctrl+f
>Dragon bridge
>0 results

>>382764971
ITT OP is a whiny faggot who copypastes the same thread everyday.

#sad

>>382777876
>I have no idea how anyone discovered that
Pretty sure we found out because of the guide.

>>382765701
>there are 6 possible combinations
>7 years-old me could figure it out

You have to be genuinely retarded if you couldn't figure this one out.

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>>382779823
TUBE don't you mean?

>>382779356

Nobody likes to admit it but the older GTA games are fucking cheap as hell, we are all just young so we accepted it. But most of the time when you die in a mission it's because of something you couldn't forsee.

>>382766217
>>382780495
like the other dude said though, the in-game hint specifically says the "imprisoned" enemy's sequence, so there are really only two combinations. people are just retarded.

>[X] game design
>objectively
>inherently flawed
>gamefeel
watch out for these
writer probably got their opinion off some low-rate celebrity from yt

I know it's because of console limitations but the last third of metroid 2 is a fucking nightmare to navigate because many rooms look too similar and without a map I got lost for like 3 hours trying to find the rest of the metroids and the queen

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It is absurd how hard SS2 shits the bed in its last few levels.

>sudden endgame platforming
>air-boost jump pads that shoot up your momentum, possibly lethally
>Radiation filled lake with no way to acquire rad hypos, hope you bought some earlier even though you haven't needed them since Chapter 2
>Respawning high damage enemies

>>382767934
>since you go down in Norfair to get the Power Bombs
That's wrong. You get them as you climb back up red Brinstar with your recently acquired Ice Beam, on your way back up to Crateria, hit missile lake and realize you can't cross it (ignoring shinesparking) then start using the Power Bombs to get to new areas (eventually going back into to check out Norfair to do so), fight Crocomire, and get the Grapple Beam. Then (after using it on previously seen grapple blocks to get places) you go back to the missile lake in Crateria, head into the Wrecked Ship and do all the shit there, exiting the opposite side you came in from and going down into Maridia (this will end up being the wrong way). Eventually towards the bottom of Maridia you'll pass through the broken tube, drop down a screen and then go right for the map, then head left and eventually be dropped one screen right from the not broken tube. Which considering you saw the broken one a few screens ago, you should be able to figure out you can break this one and boom.

>TFW never find the path to the grapple beam without the wave beam.

I keep having to get the wave beam first and it's a huge pain to get without the grapple beam.

>>382785538
>I keep having to get the wave beam first and it's a huge pain to get without the grapple beam.
That's like a single wall jump, or what?

>>382764971
Any swamp, sewer, or water level.

>>382785763

A big wall jump that adds on in bits as you go up, not an hour long trial but it is annoying.

>>382780246
I'd say the DaS wryven bridge is bad design. The dragon warns you in DeS at least, plus the intro shows the dragon flying around.

>>382775732
>Another example I can give is Robocop 2 on the NES. To beat the levels in each game of Robocop 2 you need to destroy 60% of the Nuke drugs in the level and arrest 60% of the perps in the stage. Problem is that in the first stage there's not even enough Nuke to meet that criteria in the level so you will fail. If you had the manual though it tells you that there's a secret area to look out for because the tiles will be a different pattern.

The game tells you there's a secret Nuke cache in the message you get before you start the level. That's enough to start looking for anything out of places, and those tiles stick out like a sore thumb.

>>382765701
This is what stopped me for years as a kid.

>>382786770
Nevermind the fact that you get no chance to get out of the way when it pops up.

>>382786965
Its fine, you probably won't die from it.

>>382786770
But the dragon flies around in DaS as well

and there's plenty of warning on that bridge

everything in anor londo, especially the two archers.

>>382787103
It comes from behind, which is a cheap shot at the very least.

>>382778863
kek'd

>>382787348
I mean he shows up and flies around early in Undead Burgh as well

>>382787582
Forgot about that because master key

>>382786945

Yeah it does but the manual gives notable hints on where and what to look for. If you never go to the secret Nuke area you aren't able to pass the level normally, outside of doing shooting range calibration that is and you only get two of those.

Besides the point remains that really had to pay attention to the details in those games and the ones that weren't obvious the manual would usually give you hints on what to do.

These days you got a big ass glowing outline on what to interact with and an objective marker and a context sensitive button.

>>382764971
This is spoiled during the boot sequence of the game. How did people have such a haed time with this?

>>382764971
*beep beep*

SAMUS, THIS IS THE COLONEL SPEAKING. THAT TUBE LOOKS LIKE IT'S MADE OF REINFORCED GLASS. YOU'RE GOING TO NEED AT LEAST A SUPER MISSLE TO SHATTER IT AND EXPLORE MARIDIA.

YOUR NEW OBJECTIVE IS TO OBTAIN A SUPER MISSILE. GOOD LUCK.

*bwoop*

>>382764971
ummmm im gonna go back and beat super metroid now

Why would you assume that advanced alien species from another galaxy build underwater tunnels with fragile glass?

>>382789256
You use power bombs.

>>382789495
Why would you not use a power bomb at least once?

>>382789495
Why would you assume that advanced alien species from another galaxy build underwater tunnels with indestructible glass?

>>382764971
>clearly shows possible paths going up/.down and a platform to stand on.
>tube is made of glass which is a breakable substance.
>you have bombs that break things and eventually a super bomb that fucks shit.

All of this in a franchise that's KNOWN for having secret passes and hidden secrets.

They might as well have just slapped "in case of curiosity break glass" on the damn thing.

>>382764971
I think I solved it because the room is very suspicious in of itself.

The entire room is just a glass tube? Nothing else in there? Why does it exist in the first place?

And once you get stuck you start experimenting in places that strike you as odd. The tube was very high on my list.

>>382788547
I'm just saying it's not equivalent to THF's obscure shit because at least RoboCop 2 not only tells you there's something to look for in a level, but even marks it with specific tiles, as opposed to THF's bomb/burn all the things with no indications at all.

It's a difference of some supplemental info in the manual (RoboCop 2) versus all the info you need in the manual (THF)

>>382774573
G I T G U D
I
T
G
U
D

>>382766412
Trial and Error is sometimes a valid solution to a puzzle.

>>382789256
either one of the best baits i've seen on /v/ or an incredibly embarrassing post it's both really

Surprise no ones mentioned the worst of all time:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1u3uq2CBgj4

>>382788937
no it's not.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QsIBLOx12KU
still stupid to bring the tube up every time as bad game design when it isn't even necessary.
It's an optional route. I'm pretty sure i didn't break it as a child and still beat the game just fine.

>>382773667

I still don't understand what this webm is trying to explain.

>>382790173
huh i played and completed this game when it came out and I can't remember having to ever look at a guide or ever getting stuck. Guess I knew what to do. I did get caught in Another Code by the same problemt hough so guess I learned from that

>>382790173
>"Wow! You figured out what it meant by press them together!"
>They knew this would be confusing as fuck
What a bunch of cunts

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The majority of bosses have a chance to randomly pre-emptive strike you in SMT IV, wrecking you before you can buff up. The worst part is that the vast majority of the bosses are really easy if they don't get a preemptive strike on you.

>>382789710
desu the first time going trough the tube i thought later i will go behind it

>>382790324
me too. another code and hotel dusk taught me all the stupid shit developers could pull with the ds early on.
Although i still have no idea how the one 'puzzle' in hotel dusk worked where you had to flick 2 switches at the same time.
I just touched shit randomly for a while and one time it worked.

>>382790961
to be honest having u shut the console is genuinely really clever but it's hard to think that much "outside the game"

>nearly everyone who comments on Super Metroid and the tube doesn't actually remember the shit
Not even surprised.

>>382790242
>It's an optional route. I'm pretty sure i didn't break it as a child and still beat the game just fine.
It's only optional if you can do the green gate glitch, which isn't something you can do by accident. So no, your memory just sucks.

>>382790292
It's showing how you get the map at the start of the whole area so missing it isn't very likely at all, while also showing that the area that leads to Kraid that's hidden behind the wall of the elevator to Norfair's room is shown on the map. So it makes sense that the wall is suspicious.

>>382790907
The chests in that game in general are retarded, even in IZJS
>chests with a 1-10% chance to even spawn with another 5% chance to not have shit loot
I'm convinced they did that to sell strategy guides

>>382785287
You can also wall jump up, with a bit of practice you can get power bombs without ever having seen Norfair, then bomb the tube on your first step in, eliminating the need to circle around and do it again.

>>382790798
This, this was the dumbest shit

It doesn't even explain how Booster gets up and gives you a better booster later on.

>>382791429
Yes, but I'm explaining the typical first time route where you don't know shit. Once you actually know shit, you have no reason to ever go to the eastern chunk of Crateria after the Wrecked Ship

>>382791438
he repaired the teleporter

or used the booster to save himself instead of you

>>382775404
>how infrequent super bomb drops

You do know that certain enemies will always drop the ammo of one of your items if you arent maxed out right? There's one for super missiles, and oh hey, the one for power bombs is like a room or two over.

You do know that, right?

>>382791438
Everyone knows if a person falls down a cliff and is not confirmed dead then they are 100% sure to be alive.

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HOW?

>>382790865

That letter was only bad for people that rented the game and never got the letter because some other ass kept it. Even then, you could brute force the password. Uncle Steve is a bro. The rest of Star Tropics was surprisingly good too.

>>382774573
>treacherous path
>doesn't take care in his footing

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>>382766901

>tfw twenty years since I beat Super Metroid and can't remember where to go anymore.

I got the power bomb, speed boost and ice beam recently, I think the grappling hook is next but I can't fucking recall where to go next.

>>382792159
>tfw can't remember shit, pick up the game and everything just flows back until I'm done
Like riding a bike.

>>382792159
You can go back to your ship through the area you got the power bombs and then head left the wrecked ship area.

>>382790890
this, especially when there's other parts of the map to explore. I assumed that a different passage would lead you behind the tubes. I never bombed it until I ran out of everything else to try.

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hope you didn't leave through the window

>>382792496

It's like that for certain things for me. Like bosses in Gunstar Heroes or Rocket Knight Adventures will never hit me, but I can't remember metroidvania maps for shit.

Hard faggot thread, too many new gen cunt babbies here who not the slightest inclination of using initiative to solve problems, instead need hand holding in every scenario in a video game. Fucking pathetic. Get the fuck off my /v/.

>>382769792
This is exactly why the tube is poorly designed imo. Every other breakable object in the game is discoverable through bomb spam or the X-ray vision. The tube is the only exception to this.

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>>382766901
>ywn get amnesia and play super metroid for the first time again and again

>>382793476
honestly senpai super metroid is one of those games that's better if you go in not compeltely blind to be honest, it's cooler if you know how to do wall jumping and shit

>>382770683
fuck that cave

>>382793578
I have to agree with this, the first time I played the game was at a friend's house and he showed me some shit, like how to wall jump and told me to bomb anything that looked even remotely out of place.

>>382770129
it doesn't show in that pic, but the map shows that that part doesn't have borders in the top and bottom, meaning that it has more rooms to explore

>>382792089
Defending literally one of the dumbest and cheapest deaths i've ever seen in a souls game.

Fuck off with your "git gud" meme.

>>382794592
That doesn't necessarily mean that the tube is breakable though. There are other areas like this that need to be accessed from somewhere else on the map. The only hint the game gives you is the previously broken pipe a few rooms prior.

>>382778039

It's worse than that, you have to also constantly sit down at the bonfire until you get a random spawn of a small pig.

>>382795240
And you still have to figure out how you break it.
There's no feedback, there's no information.
If you try shooting super missiles at it, you might think "oh this doesn't break after all", because nothing happens.

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Hardest mission I ever played in any game.

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>Get a copy of Super Metroid without a manual when I was 5 years old.
>Very first thing I do after starting it up is look at the controller settings.
>oh hey there's a run button

>All those "WOOOOOOOOW HOW WAS I SUPPOSED TO FUCKING KNOW YOU CAN RUN" posts on the internet.

>>382796528
> on the internet
these days all games dont come with manuals - it's all in game tutorials
still id prefer to have a manual handy as a backup - not some shitty quick start guide or something

>>382796528
Are there seriously people these days where the first thing they do when they boot up a game isn't to look at the controls? I guess that while I was growing up, never knowing if a game was defaulting to WASD, the arrow keys, or ESDF in a couple cases has kept me trained.

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>>382764971
This is hardly cryptic. There were much worse puzzles in the original Metroid on the NES.

This entire game is one wild ride of terrible game design. To get ANY of the good endings you need to enter rooms in SPECIFIC ORDERS, Mess 1 room up and you'll lock yourself out of several endings, there's literally no indications, its pretty much impossible to get a good ending without a guide

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>>382797247
I meant this

>>382797109
Metroid 1 didn't have any puzzles, or even much level design at all.

>>382793578
faggot
You're supposed to discover this shit for yourself.

>>382796717
>That day you bought your first game that had no manual
That was a dark day. I knew it was the end of an era. I used to love reading through those before starting a game, learning new tidbits of information.

>>382797614
I think the last game I bought that had a manual was Rayman Origins.
I remember it very well because that was how I found out that I'd been pronouncing Lum wrong for fucking years.

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To save Matt you need to pick a dialogue choice that has absolutely no relation to the required defense action, its also like 2 levels before said situation happens

>>382767213
How autistic do you have to be to try to figure this out?

>>382766793
underrated post

>>382797247
>>382797359
That's entirely false. You can get good endings fairly easily, only the secret best ending where you have a friend actually survive can get easily fucked up since you could accidentally trigger a death by going into the wrong room at the wrong time. Clock Tower's problem is ending F sometimes bugging out and triggering when you go into the elevator regardless of whether or not you actually had the prerequisites for it.

>>382797531
low iq you could not be more wrong, the gameplay intros are there for a reason

>>382774167
Congratulations on posting a n examp,e of legitimately bad game design. How where you supposed to know to press up and down when those buttons were never used for anything else in the entire game?

>>382795429
What a fucking casual.

All you have to do is not get too close to the train.

>>382798997
The game still locks you out stuff for not finding secret rooms (which are SERIOUSLY secret) or for entering rooms in wrong order

>>382771424
That's frustrating for casuals though, and we can't have that. That claw you need could be ANYWHERE in Skyrim, and we obviously gotta get in the door NOW so we can get the loot, right?

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Surprised this hasn't been posted yet