Is turn based an oudated mechanic?

>>382691430
It's a RPG subgenre at this point. Only Square Enix like to push this meme.

>>382691430
turn-based tactics games are far too rare

>>382691430
>inb4 the incorrect meme about turn-based having been due to technical limitations gets posted

Turn based is far superior to the kingdom hearts and ff15 battle systems

>>382691430
>Is turn based an oudated mechanic?
No.

Thanks for asking.

I know you don't want to have an actual discussion about this, so we'll leave it at that.

>>382691430
No
That UI is disgusting though, is that a mobile port?

>>382691430

Yeah. RPG combat should be at it's simplest like Dark Souls and at most complicated like Mount and Blade.

Turn based 'jrpg' style combat and Elder Scrolls "rag doll slashy doodle doo" combat suck monkey nads.

Persona 5's very recent success says no

>>382691430
In the sense of the classic JRPG style. Yes. It's too brain dead to offer any legit interesting tactics, and too slow to make for a good action game. It's just not very engaging.

Turn based tactics in the style of games like Divinity OS for example offers a fairly complex experience that keeps it interesting, and often allows for more in depth tactics than real time games.

In the case of 4X/Grand strategy games if it's turn based or real time changes how the game plays on a fundamental level(one being more like a board game and the other more like a simulation) and both can make for equally fun games.

>>382691430
no

>>382691430
There is a fucking lot that can be done with turn based combat, games like Dragon Quest and SMT are certainly outdated but they're just a small part of what turn based combat is now.

>>382692275
Hell, Pokemon still sells like hotcakes and it's an utterly simple turn-based game (Sun and Moon were garbage games. Wishiwashi's cool though)

>>382693317
Pokemon is more complex than Persona tho.

Turn based is nice when you're out of it and want to play something super low effort.

>>382693406
This.

Also, is chess an outdated game?

>tmw the only turn based RPG I fondly remember is Sonic RPG in Newgrounds
Am I a pleb?

SRPGs are the only turn-based genre that can actually claim to be difficult. Even "hard" JRPGs like many SMT games are only modestly difficult.

>>382691430
No, turn based is fun when done well. The problem is most jrpgs put too little focus on their gameplay.

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>>382691430

Turn based combat without positional considerations or complete freedom of movement is dogshit pleb tier JRPG garbage that needs to die.

Grid or Hex based turn based combat is god tier.

>>382693927
While I agree with that I also don't think high difficulty is a necessity in games.

>>382694026
Having more things to cosider during the combat certainly makes it deeper, more engaging and generally more fun but positioning isn't the only way to achieve that, but understand that you think that, there are very few turn based games without it that are actually deep.

>>382694112
It isn't, but harder games tend to be better than easier ones, at least in those games where the difficulty stems from complexity.
I think FF5 is a good game, for example, but it's very easy. A harder JRPG like Strange Journey is more fulfilling to play, and an SRPG like any Fire Emblem even more so.

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>>382694348

>there are very few turn based games without it that are actually deep.

Got any examples?

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>>382691430
Nah, but so many games have done cool things with it that if it's purely turn based I'd consider it a boring and low effort game.

Like Shadow Hearts is turn based but it has the judgement ring, position based AoE spells, and most recently the ability to combo turns between your team mates and knock them up/out of the air like some kind of tactical fighting game.

Or I really liked Mana Khemia where you could perform big combo attacks by subbing out characters and there were ways to fuck around with the turn order. Like if you see a big enemy attack show up in the turn list, this guy could erase the space between two characters turns and prevent that big attack from ever happening. I guess recently Xenoblade Chronicles was a turn based game that used a similar mechanic with the monado's prophetic powers.

>>382694348
The jrpg roguelikes ala Etrian Odyssey or Class of Heroes were also pretty good

>>382694680
>Xenoblade Chronicles
Not turn based at all.

>>382691430
yes. turn based games are boring as fuck.

>>382694769
You could move around freely but it's a turn based game just like Final Fantasy 12.

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>>382691430
I wish Active Time Battle never got popular, it's just Turn Based Combat with manufactured wait times.

Move speed could potentially be fucked over if you press something wrong because you're rushing or if you're not using shortcuts, so enemies can get a free hit. It's trying to be more intense, but it feels cheap instead.

>>382694946
No, it isn't. FF12 is essentially real-time-with-pause and Xenoblade is the same but without pausing except in special circumstances.

>>382691430
I don't know OP, is chess outdated?

>>382691430
No, but it's hard to do right. Too often the early game gets boring because they ease you into it by only giving you a few spells, and since that means you have no options in combat these spells needs to be ultra effective. Another problem is when games fail to balance the new spells you acquire so that every new spell will be an absolute powerhouse that just does way more damage/healing than anything else you have available rather than offering new utility. Lastly the RNG elements are usually too pronounced. I actually liked Child of Light's combat, they had an unique take on the standard turn based formula.

>>382691430
No, turn based games are my favorites. I just bought some turn based jrpgs on steam today

>>382695093
I thought 12 had the option to play real time without pause, or maybe I was thinking of 10-2.

>>382691430
of course it isn't. It's not like real-time is new either.

>>382691430
No, but you need to mix it up.
ATB is very played out.

>>382694554
Legend of Legacy
Bravely Default
Radiant Historia
Seventh Dragon
Pokemon
Just a reminder that deep combat doesn't mean the game is good, some of these lack variety of just feel unfinished in other areas even if the combat is actually good

>>382691430
no but their are just way too many battles that will playout with the attack attack heal pattern

>>382693406
It's really not that much more complex. Besides, those mechanics are irrelevant outside of multiplayer/battle facilities.

>>382695607
it's not just the extra mechanics like abilities, held items, natures, EVs and IVs, the move variety is huge in comparison too.
but yeah, it's mostly irrelevant for single player.

>>382691430
No. What the fuck does that even mean?

>>382695316
If I remember right yes you can turn on/off the ability to make bringing up the menu pause the game

>>382695162
That's the one thing I really like about the Etrian Odyssey games where status ailments are actually effective and important. Even in 3 where status ailments are absolutely garbage and last for 1 turn after you land it, I got really far with a farmer to put everything to sleep and then my arbalist has an attack that deal tons of damage to statused (sleeping) enemies.

>>382695316
There is that option, yes.

>>382695491
Pretty much, there needs to be auto battle for those encounters, or just straight up auto kills because they are not entertaining nor challenging in the slightest.

>>382691430
Any game that requires you to think or optimize decisions isn't outdated

Kids these days are increasingly ADHD though, which could be the reason for a lack of any good new ones

>>382695607
Multiplayer/Battle Facilties are often the only content that actually end up mattering though

No but random battles are outdated. Just started playing FF4 and holy crap is it annoying. Not sure how I tolerated all the 3D FF a long time ago.

>>382691430
This is like asking if D&D is an outdated game. Turns are at the heart of classic RPGs, same goes with rolls.

>>382695416
Legend of Legacy is neat but its RNG approach to levelling and learning skills is ass

>>382691430
No. Every major publisher including Square Enix seems to think it is though.

>>382691430
Well, Dwarf Fortress is a thing, so no.

>>382696505
PSP version has auto battle, atleast.

>>382694975
I think personally that Indivisble (or at least from what i played of the prototype) uses ATB better than most ATB games ever made solely because the combat is faster paced and has combo mechanics derivative of fighting games

>>382692145
>At most complicated like Mount and Blade.

You mean Dwarf Fortress, right?

>>382691430
>icons
What the fuck is this stupid MacOS level bullshit?

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Dragon Quest had turn based combat for ages and did it well, then they made a couple action games (builders, heroes) and the combat in those was mediocre at best.

Turn-based combat banzai

>>382697465
>be me as a kid
>play dragon quest
It was pretty great!

>>382697465
LOL

>>382692084
FF15 yes
KH no

I wanna play FF IX for the first time, on PC
Are there any special packs to get? Or just regular iso's and an emulator?

>>382695093
FF12 has the option to play in real time or wait, players choice.

>>382691430
Turn based can be a mechanic in some system, but having turns alone is not an outdated mechanic. A turn based game can still be engaging. See most games played on a tabletop.

I'll assume you mean turned based combat in video games, in which case I'd agree that there are a lot of devs who aren't doing anything interesting with it.

Darkest Dungeon adds a lot of positioning dependencies, which adds depth at a minimal complexity cost. The inclusion of two types of damage (hp and stress) and different consequences for taking that damage make deciding which enemies to defeat first a meaningful decision. As well, debuffs and status ailments can be debilitating both short term and long term. The information about all of these things is readily available, so there is little trial and error insofar as learning what enemies can do goes. Each decision has a consequence. Good decisions give you consequences you can deal with. Mashing a basic attack skill will almost certainly leave you dead.

The Mario & Luigi games are turn based, but the action commands involved in both attacking and defending, and the lack of randomness, reward skillful timing and careful observation of enemy HP.

SMT and Persona reward and punish attacks based on enemy weaknesses. In old SMT games, using weaknesses dealt massive damage to enemies, far beyond the scope of doubling it.

Turn based combat needs more depth to be engaging.

>>382691430

It's the only good way to involve more than one character in the gameplay. AI companions blow dick in each and every game they are in. Being a one man army is boring, and there are plenty of ways to mix up turn based gameplay.

>>382691430
Game mechanics don't get outdated.

>>382691965
It's sort of true from the era of paper RPG that the first generations of computer RPG tried to replicate.

>>382691430

Like anything, turn-based has it's proper time and place.

But the way you say it is kinda silly.
It's like if a person criticized music saying,

"Is C an outdated key of music?

Music doesn't age or change.
It's just you.

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>>382692145
>3rd person """rpg"""

>>382691430

I have honestly never understood the appeal. I mean in every JRPG, they are clearly the worst part of the entire game...And yet they talk up 95% of the playtime. I just don't get it. In JRPGs I love the epic stories, the awesome music, exploring the towns, but the battles are just so tedious and boring.

It's not that I don't like strategy, it's just that more often than not the battles are just way too frequent, and often is just a game of healing at the right time. It sucks exploring a dungeon and being interrupted every 5 seconds.

I even hate the pseudo-"real time" stuff in Chrono Trigger. The only tolerable game with turn based combat I've played is Mario and Luigi because you can actually dodge the attacks. To me Secret of Mana is really how JRPGs should be made.

>>382691430
It's still the best way to control a party of multiple characters.

>>382691430
nah. its a super fun thing but modern graphics prevented it from happening on any recent games.
ffx for example looks weird with Turn based combat

>>382695607
Pokemon was designed from the ground up around being a multiplayer game though. It's not like it's not an important aspect.

>>382693616
Real time or simultaneous board games are a mess. Some can be a fun party mess, but not really a competitively engaging mess. many are just a stinky mess.

That doesn't happen with video games. You have a computer to make all sorts of calculations for you on the fly, and can have people interact with the game from completely different points. All the downsides of real time board games don't exist with video games.

Turn based was a necessity in board games. In video games, it exists mostly due to nostalgia and incompetence.

>>382691430
I don't like turn-based in modern games, but I like older turn-based games that'll I go back and play. So outdated, I guess. But if there's people that still would buy them, then I guess not.

>>382691430
Like any thing, depends on how it's done and it's not for everyone.

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No.

Turn based combat is most definitely not outdated when handled correctly. Games like Pokemon and even SMT to a degree have their merit, but are easily outshined by games that use turn based mechanics in a real time setting. I'm not talking about FF7 limit either, because that is just so synthetic and aggravating, it tricks you into feeling skilled. But games like Dark Souls, Fire Emblem, and even Resonance of Fate expand on the idea of turn based combat and are all rewarding in their own rights, even though their liberties taken from the original concept vary quite drastically.

Most games have their roots in turn based combat, its just harder to realize youre literally waiting to attack.

>>382699854
Anyone?

>>382693616
Yes. It was broken by AI years ago.

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No, but the game has to be difficult. If it's easy then turn based combat makes it tedious, if it's difficult it makes it strategic and tense. Every boss should kill you at least once, preferably twice. Normal enemies should require a bit of knowledge and strategy.

This is why Legaia is the best game

>>382701870
>Fire Emblem
>Resonance of Fate

Sure.

>Dark Souls

What.

>youre literally waiting to attack.

That's not what taking turns means and you know it.

>>382702225

Legaia was a neat system but it is quite possibly THE most tedious RPG I have ever played. Grinding for Seru, all spell and attack animations being long as hell, random encounter rate was fairly high.... It was tough sure but I don't understand how it isn't tedious.

>>382701870
Sure, Dark Souls expanded on the idea of turn-based combat...

...by foregoing it entirely.
What are you on about?

>>382692084
KH2 has better combat than turn based shit

>>382701352

In all seriousness, I thought switching characters in GTA V in the middle of combat was pretty neat.

>>382702507
There's a lot of tedium there, you're right. I more mean it was difficult. Honestly it's not a great example of what I'm talking about, but damn do I love that game.

>>382691430
RPGs are an outdated genre.

>>382702751

Fair enough. I keep thinking about replaying it but I just don't think I have what it takes for that kind of game these days.

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>>382702982
I've been slowly going back and replaying the ps1 era JRPGs. I was in the same boat. What I'm doing is having my buddy come over, he's been trying to 100% every Kingdom Hearts game. So we play on the couch and get to share the games with each other. Makes the whole thing more fun.
Hell, if you can't do something similar then maybe even try streaming it.

>>382691430
no

cool thread tho

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>>382696645
That's why you play its daddy instead

ive never understood how to play these games. is it normal to fight every single enemy you come across? or is it normal to run away a lot? if i run away i end up being under-leveld, but it just seems ridiculous to expect you to fight every/most enemies as it gets so fucking boring

>>382703609
That depends on the game, but typically it's kill everything in sight.

>>382697465
>press a button
>game tells the character to attack
well it's the same in zelda desu

>>382701917

just buy it on Steam like everyone else.

>>382691430
Turn based makes sense when you're controlling the actions of multiple characters. The way I see it, the problem with SE is that since FFXI they've been pushing combat towards a single character perspective while delegating party members to alternative control methods, whether that's other players, programmable commands, or plain automated combat.

Although they're completely different styles of play, I feel like XIV and XV both suffer from the same conceptual flaw that the player must be actively engaged in controlling their character at all moments, which isn't the case and wasn't a flaw for any of the previous FF titles.

>>382703609
>is it normal to fight every single enemy you come across?
no
fleeing is standard for me in ff games at least

one time in ff5 while doing a solo run I decided to not ever run and go for the brave sword, but that's like the only time.
Was kinda interesting with just one character, since different places were locked to me essentially, since you can't just fight your way through with 1 character at those times, also learning lvl 5 death wasn't possible

I guess maybe it was with a mix command in retrospect

>>382693940
also most of the talent has left, no one listens to them anymore or both

>>382703609
It's like in a fighting game, you simply beat the shit out of everyone who looks at you the wrong way. If you don't enjoy doing that in a game, it's not for you. Good games offer variety in its battle system though.

>>382702225
Arc Rise Fantasia had easy trash mobs but the bosses are hard as tits, you should give it a try sometime

>>382701870

When I say literally waiting to attack Im not referring to strategic games, but ones perhaps like Monster Hunter where you simply try to find an opportunity for 1 of maybe 5 valid options. As for my comparison to Dark Souls, I simply mean that its simple and even encouraged to wait out attacks and reply to them, effectively re-imagining the idea of turns in combat through a logical lens.

>>382703749
>Steam
Oh wow

>>382703609
Most games are easy enough that it's best to just fight everything you can and they end up even easier. In games like Etrian Odyssey, I think it's to be expected that you run away a lot of the time because the enemies are more difficult and gets to be tedious with little reward.

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>>382691430
Damn, no! Gif related is great.

desu I miss more games with the gameplay of KH Chain of Memories.

>>382703609
Depends on which mobs give good exp or not, really. Just pay attention to how much exp you need for level ups and how much exp the current mobs give and figure out which are the best to avoid and which to invest in.

>>382704695

In Demons/Dark 1 simply spamming attacks was pretty much the best option. No need to "wait" for shit in full havels. It's not similar to turn based combat in the slightest.

>>382705343
Did you seriously enjoy chain of memories? How?

>>382705667
The fighting style was nice. Also, I was pretty young back then.

>>382701870
>Dark Souls
>poising through attacks to stunlock things until they die
>turn based combat

>>382705524
Its a whole lot more fulfilling to handicap yourself and then think of how to play the game. And i've probly put, fuck, 400 hours into it? It just makes more sense from a design standpoint for the combat to be meaningful in a game as tentative and contemplative as Dark Souls is.

>>382705779
I'm saying its an obvious evolution from it.

>>382703609
I remember in Persona 2 the combat was pretty slow and tedious, even talking down demons for cards and free stuff. In that game you could afford to fight a couple enemies and then run from everything when you stopped earning a level or two from each fight.

But occasionally you get games like Phantasy Star where you can't leave the first town until you grind to level 7 or you just die to every enemy that even looks in your direction.

>>382705748
The combat was pretty good in CoM. I just wish the game told me that you can't reshuffle star cards. Turned every single card in my deck into a star so they'd all fit, but then I couldn't beat a single boss.

>>382706540
I don't really remember having to rind in Phantasy Star, which ones?

>>382706187
You said it was an expansion on the idea and either way I disagree.

>>382706824
I think it appeals to similar audiences for a reason.

>>382706752
yeah, had to learn that the hard way
after getting your first Elixir the game becomes Sleight city

>>382707018

But it doesn't. Not in the slightest.

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>>382706817
This one. By level 7-8 you get a healing spell and the sword, which makes things way easier and you'll almost have enough money for an illegal shuttle pass.

>>382691430
Long answer: No.
Short answer: No.

>>382707130
Big epic quests, exploration, character building, punishing learning curve. Only thing it really doesnt have in common is its fluidness. From my experience people who like dark souls liked smt and chrono trigger and the things of the sort.

>>382707309
Oh right. I suppose so. I typically play jrpgs grinding pretty early anyways. Probly just went over my head.

>>382692117
Not OP, but yes, that's the mobile version of FF 2.

>>382707018
At this point you're not even talking about turn-based vs. alternatives you're moving on to other things to try to draw similarities that are not relevant to the conversation. At best you're just saying that people who liked fighting monsters in the old days like fighting monsters now, to which the only answer is no shit Sherlock.

I dislike ATB. It's a miracle if I can get through a game that uses it

>>382707612

That's a pretty big stretch. Not all RPGs have that deep of character building or a punishing learning curve - Chrono Trigger sure as fuck didn't. I would hardly say any souls game has an "epic quest" when the bulk of the story is simply left flapping in the breeze. Exploration is such a vague idea that it really could be used to compare anything to anything.

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>>382707612
>Big epic quests, exploration, character building, punishing learning curve.
What does all of that have anthing to do with turn based games?
Are you terminally retarded?
>From my experience people who like dark souls liked smt and chrono trigger and the things of the sort.
I like SMT and think CT is hot garbage while DS is mediocre at best, again, what the fuck are you even talking about?

>>382708237
This.

Only game I could really stand was chrono trigger.

>>382708693
Got off topic, you guys are right.

My original point was that I thought the souls games expanded on turn based combat in a way.

>>382692084
You're right about XV but even simple action games like KH and GOW is better than turn-based games.

>>382709254
>even simple action games like KH and GOW is better than turn-based games.
Lolno

>>382709254
I have not had a less enjoyable experience than with the KH series, especially when compared to a genre like turn based games.

Many RPGs are based around a party made up of multiple characters who each have multiple battle options. Turn-based battles are the best way to let the player have control over their party. Every other types of battle system either take away control over the party or simply removes the party.

The last remnant is proof that it can still be done, and not feel so static as well.

Sequel when ;-;

>>382709419
Definitely is.

>>382709976
Kawazu doesn't do sequels, it's really just a SaGa game under a different name anyway, you can play all the other SaGa games.
>>382710014
That's your own pathetic opinion.

>>382710262
That's your own pathetic opinion.
The irony in that statement hahaha. If you think shit like FF and DQ are better you shouldn't be allowed to play video games

>>382696645
Learning skills at level thresholds is the most dull way to learn skills.

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>>382710656
>>382710262
>>382710014
>>382709419
>>382709254
>My taste over this subjective matter is entirely superior to yours!

>>382710937
welcome to /v/

>>382710656
Unlike you I happen to enjoy good games regardless of them being turn or action based, comparing two systems that are night and day and saying one is superior to the other only tells people how much of a pathetic brainlet you are.
And it is especially tragic if you try to do so by bringing fucking GoW in the discussion.

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>WRPG-style "right click like a madman and spam your number keys" combat

no thanks amigo, turn-based RPGs allow for way more tactical and strategic depth (see xcom 2 and darkest dungeon just recently)

Well, if you treat certain RPGs like chess, then no. There's nothing inherently wrong with having turn based combat, so long as it makes the game more strategic in nature. You can work it out so turn based combat forces the player to think about their decisions more.

How can you pretend action RPGs take more skills when 3/4 of your party is controlled by an AI you barely have any control over

>>382711146
Turn based JRPG's are inherently flawed. They amount to use spam your strongest skill/spell and heal when you need too. Only games that have a spin on this formula are good like SMT or SaGa.

>>382691430
You know what game would be better to play if it had gameplay similar to KH or Bayonetta?
The Tales Of series

No. Some people just think that because a lot of JRPGs have shitty, shallow combat systems where any kind of meaningful strategy beyond spank and heal is both impossible and completely unnecessary. That's a problem with bad implementation rather than the idea itself.

>>382691430
I Am Setsuna seems to get it right. It's everything Chrono Trigger should have been.

>>382711962
>They amount to use spam your strongest skill/spell and heal when you need too.
If you do that you'd quickly run out of MP

>>382712142
Use a MP potion?

>>382712326
Most RPGs don't hand those out easily

>>382711962
>They amount to use spam your strongest skill/spell and heal when you need too
Just like every game with combat ever made? There's a reason people mock games like souls for being a roll+R1 spamfest, saying an entire genre is inherently flawed because the majority of it is for the casual audience(like all games) means nothing.
>inb4 muh twitch reflexes
No
And by the way, SMT is ruined by having evolved to a system completely focused on pushing plus and minus buttons and doing little else, so I wouldn't say it does combat right when it's arguably the single worse thing in the franchise.

>>382706752
but they do tell you that

>>382705343
Advance Wars shits all over Fire Emblem.

>>382691430
Fucking obviously not. Series like Fire Emblem or X-Com are based on the concept.

>>382692275
Persona 5 had shit gameplay with zero challenge.

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>>382695416
Jesus fuck, stop.

The problem with comparing turn-based battles to other battle system is that you're looking at battle systems in a vacuum without looking at the rest of the game.

RPGs are not about battles. RPGs are actually about ressource management. HP, MP, Money and Items are all ressources you can have. (Some games have more, like Persona and Atelier have Time). Keep your HP up so you don't die. Use your MP to heal yourself or use it to kill your enemy faster (so they do less damage to you). Use money to restore your HP and MP (or to buy items that do that). Etc. But this ressource management doesn't happen on an individual battle. It happens throughout the entire game. When you're going through a dungeon, each individual battle is simple, but each of them drains at your HP and possibly MP and Items. The only ressource you tend to gain is Money, which is useless in dungeons or battles. Money is what you use in town to trade for other ressources that you'll actually use in dungeons and battles. If you run out of MP and Items in dungeons and you can't heal, you didn't manage your Money correctly. You could've bought more MP potion, or better equipment, etc. This is the entire reason dungeons have so many pathways and treasure chests. Going after them instead of straight through is using up your ressources (as you'll encounter more battles) but potentially earning you another ressource in return.

Action RPGs might still have HP, MP, Items and Money, but they throw all of that out the window. If you can dodge, your ressources aren't being drained. If your ressources aren't being drained, you're not managing them. That's why you have players challenge themselves by fighting endgame bosses with starting equipment. It's totally possible to do in those game because the ressources only serve to kill the enemies faster or as a clutch in case you fuck up. In RPGs, healing is mandatory. In Action RPGs, you heal when you make a mistake.

>>382694716
Those aren't roguelikes

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>>382691430
Absolutely. The fact that there are still games that work off the freeze frame/ loading screen/ battle/ loading screen/ return to over world. Take two steps, rinse and repeat. We have the hardware to totally do away with loading screens, but Japanese developers don't really care because they pander to an obsessive fan base that will eat up ever terrible J""RPG"" the devs shit out.

>>382691430
NO it is not you fucking nigger don't say that

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>>382691430
I can't imagine a console game in 2017 being a turn based RPG with battle screens unless it was some sort of omage or had a meaningful reinvention of the gameplay loop.

Wish more games would take the Mario RPG route

No it isn't.
Case and point, Darkest Dungeon.

>>382702527
LITERALLY.
HOLD.
TRIANGLE.
TO.
WIN.
THE.
GAME.

>>382714182
2hardcore4u

>>382702262
>>382702518
>>382705779

I think his reference to dark souls having turn based combat was supposed to mean that you're supposed to take turns blocking and then attacking, letting the opponent move/evade then you move, if you're being cautious

>>382721553
>Blocking
>Not doing mailbreaker parries and zweihander ripostes
>"letting the oponent move/evade"
>not stunlocking the enemy with zweihander

You what?

>>382691430
Still used for Dragon quest and Bravery default.

The atb turn based is dead. They went with atb real time with ai partners since 12. 13 only just put a screen set up back and remove walking around in battle.

15 is action rpg.


Another dead thing is random encounters in certain rpgs.

The final fantasty series ended up borrowing other snes era mechanics for gameplay.

>>382721553
Everyone understood what he meant Anon.

>>382721865
FF12's ATB with full movement and positioning control and pausing when selecting actions was the pinnacle of that design.