RTS games will never be popular again.

>>382660259
>pic related killed the genre along with WoW

Fuck Blizzard

>>382660259

Does it even really matter?

So many RTS games were shat out during the heyday's of the late 90's and early 2000's that it would take quite a few years just to get through all of them.

I buy old RTS games from GoG and Steam all the time, and torrent others that aren't available anywhere online. I still discover new niche ones all the time, and don't have enough free time to even put more than a few hours in each one most of the time, since I still prefer to main my favorites even if I like trying classic niches I haven't heard of before.

>>382660804
>So many RTS games were shat out during the heyday's of the late 90's and early 2000's
they're all fucking awful
which is probably why the genre died

>>382660804
So many of them are garbage though (IMO) for some reason scale regularly ruins these games for me.

>>382660752
>implying blizz and WoW killed RTS
Consoles killed RTS, beacose every game now must have port for both pc and consoles, and we now RTS on consoles are shit.

>>382660259
Good.
It's a shit genre.

>>382660965
In other words, the demand for high budgets killed RTS

>>382660965
>Consoles killed RTS, beacose every game now must have port for both pc and consoles, and we now RTS on consoles are shit.
Nah, PC RTS are shit. Far too many buttons makes it unfun to learn and to play.
Games like Red Alert 2 are what RTS games should be like.

where they even intended to be popular ?
I mean the RTS audience is still here and peoples who bought AoE 3 will surely buy AoE 4 if it ever came out and managed to be decent. My take on the death of RTS is first the console audience who grew larger during the years 2010 while the PC audience stood relatively still. in the meantime grand strategy games a la total war attracted the same audience that played RTS and starcraft created a black hole of mediocrity for the e-sporter plebeians.
One of the latest RTS that came out is the perfect illustration Dawn of War 3 while being a sequel to one of the most beloved franchise of RTS player (DoW 2 does not exist) was plagued with starcraft design and was purposed for an inexistent audience of e-sporter and competitive players.

>>382661041
This. UMS were the only good things to ever come out of RTS

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WHY THE HELL DIDNT ANYONE TELL ME COSSACKS WAS A GOOD GAME? I COULD HAVE BEEN PLAYING THIS IN MY YOUTH INSTEAD OF STUPID STARCRAFT!

>>382661137
>red alert 2 is the only RA to not be on consoles

>>382661261
Fuck.
I meant the first RA.

>>382661175
agreed, kids these days brains aren't capable of playing RTS games, nor are they history / tactics buffs anymore. Pretty sure all kids learn in school now is Hitler is bad mkay. The audience for RTS games has stagnated. Just us armchair generals and koreans remain

>>382660259
because pandering to gook-click killed the genre, micro managing everything is fucking miserable for the average player.
Maybe the genre needs to reinvent itself? Like the commander directs units and declares objectives, but the units will take cover, engage enemies and move in that objective on its own. With a system like that you could have enormous forces clashing with each other while you direct it as best you can.

>>382660259
They will be as soon as someone else makes a good one. There have been a few attempts since SC2 but they weren't very good.

>>382661626
SC2 didn't even properly pander to gookclikers

>>382660876
>>382660932

What ones are bad?

If you two turn out to be AoE2/SC niggers then just fuck off. It's already a given that you hate anything that isn't your two balance fests.

>>382661885
Like all modern Blizzard games they halfway made it a dumbed down game and then decided to try and pander to gookclickers, resulting in a mess.

It just needs a game with high production values, is fun and has longevity in both single and multiplayer

>>382661892
I'm not talking about the popular ones. There are hundreds of really bad RTS games that you've probably never heard of that were made in the 90s

>>382661892
>If you two turn out to be AoE2/SC niggers then just fuck off.

Starcraft and WoW ruined the genre m8

>>382660259
The death of RTS games lay solely on the publishers and developers. The mark of a good RTS is a good single player. A good LONG single player for each faction.

The single player forces the devs to make interesting units and mechanics because there will be at least one mission showcasing each units abilities in detail. Sine they have to dedicate a whole mission to it they will make it fun. When there are multiple sides to avoid repetition the sides naturally diversify and become their own thing.

Because they stripped single player away RTS's significantly suffered. Sides because copies of each other with the same amount of answers to each others threats. They effectively did the same thing. Then with the "esports" mentality they then started overbalancing everything on top of that.

We wont get good RTS games again until they get over that mental hurdle and start making good single player experiences first before worrying about multiplayer.

>>382661582
>Pretty sure all kids learn in school now is Hitler is bad mkay
that was fucking off topic and I'm sure that almost every history class since 1945 in the whole europe and burgerland would imply that he was bad.

>kids these days brains aren't capable of playing RTS games
you know I don't know how old you are but my guess is you would consider me as one of those kids but that didn't stop me.

The real problem with RTS is why would any company longing for profit would invest money in a genre restricted to PC and to an audience that as stagnated for years while he could be off jerking in an open world FPS for consoles. that he would be sure to sell. I mean even the most mediocre far cry sold better than any RTS from the last 10 years.

Classic RTS split into several more specialized niches, from tactics to city builders.

>>382662476
you know why RTS games stripped away single player near the end of the genres lifecycle? Because the single player campaigns were garbage, and the only people who still played RTS games played them for the multiplayer

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Please recommend me an RTS with a conquest campaign similar to Warlords Battlecry. I only know of DoW.

>>382661626
>because pandering to gook-click killed the genre
Why is this narrative still being pushed, there is literally ONE (1) game that fits that bill, and it's SC2

Deserts of Kharak didn't pander to gooks, neither did act of agression, grey goo, DoW3, Cosssacks 3, Ashes of singularity, etc.

Fact is the decline of the genre is because the games stopped attracting new people, and it's hard to attract new people when shit like dota makes the concept of an RTS more manageable.

MP focus is suicidal in my opinion and you are just begging for your game to flop.

What's the difference between RTS and RTT? Just whether you're building a base?

>>382662634
Incorrect. Publishers assumed people only cared about the multiplayer and in an attempt to decrease development time they turned single player into a glorified tutorial. There is a reason the genre went down hill so sharply once that happened.

>>382662703
Rise of nations, Empire at war, battle for middle earth 2, Universe at war earth assault, C&C 3.

Those are the ones ont the top of my head.

The genre in general was too afraid to break free from the Westwood formula. Why are there so few unconventional RTS games like Sacrifice or Majesty? Why is everything "Dune, but..."?

>>382662882
>Publishers assumed people only cared about the multiplayer
Publishers don't 'assume' anything, they respond to the market. The only people who still played RTS games after the huge amount of shit RTS that were put out were the core fans who were more interested in multiplayer than singleplayer. And I can't think of an RTS game that doesn't have a single player campaign anyway

It will be popular again with SC:R.

Not you know, League of Legends popular, not as popular as SC2 was in 2010-2012, but will definetely get some tournaments and a lot of new players.

>>382660965
>PCMR: we're legion, we're mighty, we're unstoppable!
>we're unable to buy enough games for devs to actually care
lel

>>382663091
>the core fans who were more interested in multiplayer than singleplayer

Those fans DON'T switch to other RTS tho, if they are MP autists they aren't easily dissuaded from switching. Also the difference between the ammount of SP vs MP fags is astounding.

Face it man, MP is irrelevant for RTS since the bulk of the sales come from SP fans,

>>382662703
>>382663050
Don't forget Emperor: Battle for Dune.

>>382662509
nnononon, don't get the wrong idea, I was basically trying to say that kids don't have a passion for history / battle tactics anymore.
And yeah, kids these day are too ADD and instant gratification centered to play rts games. And if you did, then good on ya, you're probably just smarter than your peers.

>>382663467
Oh yeah i forget the SP is a conquest mode.

>>382663091
>they respond to the market
well they should reshape the fucking graph they have in place of a brain because their is a definitive correlation between the downfall of RTS as a genre and the massive wank from the publishers to the inexistent e-sport crowd

>>382663459
RTS fans would play any good RTS. There wasn't any Starcraft eltism back when RTS was actually popular. Most of the sales were casual dad-gamers who played single player, yes, but when they stopped buying RTS games the publishers stopped making them. It's obviously not the other way around, why would they stop making things people were buying? It burnt out because there was so much shit and no regard for quality.

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>>382662703

My nigga.

>tfw I am a Barbarian Druid and I HAVE THE BODY OF A GOD!

>>382663537
RTS games died about a decade before esports were a thing in the west

Gaming INDUSTRY has a goal.
And that goal is PROFIT first as in every other industry.
If you make a great game that millions are playing for years (Starcraft) you have to monetize properly since the people playing the game religiously won't buy other games and won't switch easily.

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>>382660259
>like DOW2 but can't mention it because "muh base building autists choke on their own dicks and start frothing at the mouth when they hear of it
>b-but it's RTT! it can't be RTS without base building
It's like they want every RTS to be literal cut and paste samey shit and they bitch and whine when they don't get that. RTS elitists are no better than faggots who eat up the yearly AAA releases. The whole lot of them can go fuck themselves. Yeah, DOW3 gave you fucking cocksuckers base building back, hope you're happy with that pile of shit.

rts died because most people never actually liked rts to begin with. out of all the rts "fans," a ton of them only played the games against the computer as city builders and a bunch more never liked the fact that it was real time. then out of the ones that actually played the game like it was intended, most of them couldn't handle that they were shit at it and decided it was the genre's fault.

>>382662783
rts has some kind of economy management

>>382663713
>Most of the sales were casual dad-gamers
That feels like a gross generalization, i'm sure the bulk of the RTS core audience is just young or slightly older people that like shit like tabletop games and strategy games. The more autists ones are the ones that stick and participate in "why is RTS dead" threads or the MP that keep screeching they want another MP focused RTS even when SC2 surprisingly showed how small that audience is when it's Coop mode is infinitely more succesful

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>>382663982
dow2 was great.

what do you see as "strategy"?

Interested mainly in armchair general responses.

>>382664489
The RTS audience was much bigger than the tabletop audience. They were probably the first 'dad game' back in the day although they appealed to kids aswell, dads are the one with the purchasing power. They were the biggest PC genre for a few years until FPS took over.

And SC2 had the most over-produced single player campaign in RTS history, you can't say it's single player was lacking

>>382664882
in rts strategy is about tradeoffs. do you make X now or wait 5 minutes and make Y? an option that might be good against one thing will be bad against another thing. strategy is deciding what to do based on the information you have about your opponent.

>>382664882
high-level decision making. Strategy depends on your overall knowledge of the game and your own creativity. It's seperate from tactics in that tactics require more localized knowledge and are about skill rather than creativity.

>>382665225
That sounds too much like adjusting build orders for timings, if it's a game that has bases. How would you implement scouting so the average player finds it fun?
>>382665361
I think you're conflating it with macro. How would you say it is different?

I'm just wondering because every attempt that tries to appeal to the average player tends to fall flat. Besides SupCom, I guess.
Average players overlook all the strategy, focus on micro and ask: "can't I still strat?".

>>382662703
>>382663867
>That feel when there will never, ever be a Battlecry IV
>In 3D, but with gigantic maps
>You won't ham it out with Barbarians, rise Skellies with your Undead Pals, cleave and smite with your Knights and so on...

The only thing we have is Puzzle Quest. Sure, it's a good game (and quite addictive), but it's not the same...

>>382664508
>I'M THE FRAKING DIOMEDES HERETIC!

>>382666932
knowing timings and being able to adapt to them is part of strategy. "average players" probably won't find it fun because their idea of strategy is sitting in their base for 20 minutes and then attacking with some gimmick unit they decided to mass.

>>382667230
armchair generals are average players (at best). I'm interested in what they feel is so lacking.

This is a AoEII Thread now!

I just started playing pic related HD
It is really fun so far, even tho it seems like nobody online knows how to play an RTS (at least not around the starting ELO)

What civs does /v/ enjoy the most? I've been playing mostly nomad maps with random civs

inb4 only WE WUZ replies

>>382664882
Google is still a thing, knock yourself out

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>>382668014
fogot pic

>>382660752
Blizzard polished three genres to the max. They also ruined them all. The irony

No, they evolved to grand strategies. (Europa Universalis 4)

>>382662703
>>382663867
>>382667026
>/v/ plays wbc
I though you guys didn't exist

>not being Undead Deathknight

>>382660752
blizzard
>let's make the template for the best kinds of RTS games!
>10 years later
>okay so how do we fuck it all up?

C&C3 Tiberium Wars was the last greatest one for me it still looks great

>>382662476
>The mark of a good RTS is a good single player
This is wrong.
The mark of good RTS are good multi player and an active playerbase.

>>382666932
macromanagment is the starcraft term for managing your economy, it has nothing to do with the definition of strategy

>>382661137
>alot of buttons
>you can literally play it with just a mouse
what the hell are you thinking there shit for brains?

>>382669279
you can play rts with just the mouse the same way you can play basketball with one hand

Well they never really were that popular.

>>382660259
>talks about rts
>plays retarded esport arcade rts
mate most multiplayer rts are shitfests where you throw enough units at the enemy and hope they come through. no strategy in that

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>>382660259
Good.

We don't need AAA publishers in our genre. Indies will be the rebirth of RTS!

>>382669534
>shitfests where you throw enough units at the enemy and hope they come through
isn't that single player rts? sitting in your base for 30 mins maxing your army cap then attack moving to win?

>>382660259
>>>382661261
>Fuck.
>I meant the first RA.

All C&C games were on console. Including RA and the original.

Warcraft 1was one of a few mainstream that were not.

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>>382661258
American Conquest is even better mechanically.
Heroes of Annihilated Empires is Fantasy clone and also great.

>>382669482
they were the most popular genre of game for a while in the 90s

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>>382661582
>Pretty sure all kids learn in school now is Hitler is bad mkay.
It's worse than that.

>>382660752
>blizzard makes the best games of their genre
>blizzard ''''''''''''''''''''''ruins'''''''''''''''' the genre

Shows how pathetic companies are if they can't make a sginel game to top blizzard's "shitty" games

>>382668521
Warlords Battlecry III is skub for me.

On one hand it made leveling a hero faster, added shitloads of units and more.

On the other hand it made such bullshit like dividing humans into two factions and thus splitting the units.

What the hell?

>>382669629
As long as the ideas are good and there is enough interest.

Is there any modern RTS that is worth sinking time into?
>>382670049
I didn't like WBC3 at all. Way too many changes from 1&2

Anyone played Northgard? How is it?

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>>382662703
Rise of Legends.

>>382670208
Yes.

>>382670190
incredibly basic
it's only worth 5-10 games which are less than half an hour each

>>382660259
>RTS genre
>Need for Speed
>Final Fantasy
>Resident Evil
>Silent HIll
>Metal Gear
>Ace Combat

All of these are the same and the list gets longer. People want a nice classic, not a rehash, but a modern title that draws the inspiration in its mechanics from original titles. But the developers keep adding more and more useless shit trying to add needless twists to make it "fresh" and ruining what fans wanted in the process.

These things will never be as good as they were in the past, because its impossible to find a director that wants to create a modern work that's faithful to the classics. They all want to stamp their name on this shit with their own unique spin, running it through thirteen passes of diarrhea filter in the process.

>>382669956
That can't be real.

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>>382660259
They never were, you've deluded yourself if you think they ever had mainstream success. They were niche from the start. They only produced more RTS decades back then they do now because budgets were lower, so they could target the niche market and still keep afloat. But they never had a major "competitive scene" outside of clan wars on private boards (which is exactly how they still work now, and Starcraft is a pleb RTS and doesn't count).

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>>382670436
>That can't be real.

>>382660259
RTS and Arena FPS will never be popular again.

>>382670479
>you've deluded yourself if you think they ever had mainstream success. They were niche from the start
I'm 20 years old the post

>>382670142
At least hero creation wasn't so restricted.

On the other hand it gave us crazy stuff like UNDEAD PALADINS. For real...

Wished there was a sequel with the best elements of all three games combined.

Also if you want to play a worthy RTS, play Sins of a Solar Empire.

Also now that next week I'm getting my payment, I will finally get a new rig and think about playing Stellaris.

Both SoaSE and Stellaris are 4x, but in real-time instead of turn-based like Master of Orion or GalCiv.

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>>382670556
To be fair, you can't male an Arena FPS if the target audience is going to primarily use a controller.

>>382660259
>stalkers in front of the immortals
>archon in back way out of range to do anything

And this is why he lost

>>382670503
That wasn't distributed by a school, though.

I don't want any memeing, is Homeworld: Cataclysm good or not? GOG got it recently.

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>>382670701
It was still educational. Imagine if the standard history lesson back in our childhood was comp-stomp session of AoE1/2.

>>382660259
>Gookclick games are dead
Good riddance.

>>382660752
i dont see league of legends on op's pic

>>382670586
Sure bub. RTS has too high a skill ceiling for it to ever have been big, even back then. We had more hardcore people writing reviews in magazines but did it ever have the audience that those reviewers might have suggested? Was it ever at the scale of mainstream success that other simpler genres had like action games?

If you wanted to seriously play in a community for RTS, you always had to go into the "underground" so to speak. It's always been about clan wars and small dedicated playgroups. And you have that option now, still, so the bitching about the genre being "dead" is irrelevant. Now those people are the 20 year olds.

>>382669983
>dead outside Korea
lmao

>>382670345
Final Fantasy has been different every game. It's intentional.

>>382671163
RTS was literally the biggest PC game genre after adventure games were popular and before FPS games were popular, and they didn't have a skill ceiling (I think you mean skill floor) because there was no competitive autism and people just built alot of units and boxed moved them to the enemy base. If you actually played video games in the 90s you'd know this, instead of superimposing the present on the past like everyone on this board does

>>382669197
so what is strategy, then? Unit makeup?

>>382669534
>no strategy in that
could you give an example of strategy, then? It's posts like these that confuse me.

>>382671565
Strategy is a mode of thought, not a game mechanic. I already explained it in my post

>>382670208
I love this game. Sequel never ever.

>>382671530
Sounds like you're the one superimposing. I never suggested RTS wasn't that big of a PC genre, but the PC gaming audience was SMALLER than it is now, vastly smaller. In the end it was still a tight, rather niche community. But the point I am making is that there is no reason to complain about the genre's supposed loss of popularity, because these communities still exist, you just need to make some effort to seek them out.

>>382671682
so you would say that those who complain about the lack of strategy in modern titles are actually lacking in thought?

>>382661258
>tfw own Cossacks 3

>>382671824
it was THE biggest PC game genre. Consoles were bigger at the time, but PC gaming was pretty significant in the west. It was only niche if you considered video games as a whole niche

>>382670208
Great game, still gives me chills

>>382671524
>Final Fantasy has been different every game. It's intentional.
And then there's this fucking retard who can't understand what's being said, happily eating whatever shit is shoved down his throat.

Listen here kid, I get you feel real special because you played three final fantasy titles since you hit puberty a month ago, so you might not be aware of this, but what's iterative in final fantasy was the story, the style and gameplay were virtually identical, with small mechanical changed for about a dozen titles before there were any drastic changes done.

>>382671881
Depends what their reasoning is

Anyone here played Battle Realms? I feel like I'm the only one, because whenever I post it, I don't get any replies, which is strange, because the game was awesome and had some dedicated following for many years.

>>382660259
If you only like AoE2/SC and haven't even looked into the countless other RTS that were released over time, you're a faggot. You just want a AAA company to make a shiny new game so you can build bases all symmetrical and neat and not actually played the game.

Fuck yourself.

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Online killed RTS.

Hear me out:
>90s
>any RTS game multiplayer was LAN only/mostly
>you, as a carebear scrub, only compete against your local carebear scrubs
>none of your LAN casuals could theory-crunch enough to find an optimal meta
>none of your LAN casuals knew what the pro build order used at tournies
>so everyone was dicking around and being matched against casuals
>experimenting with builds and strategies
>you won some, you lost some and fun was had by all

Compare that to the internet age
>you get matched by some gookclicker from the other end of the world
>statistically impossible to ever win a match unless you read up online on the current meta
>got to to follow the build order or you'll be stomped by someone who executes it faster than you
This killed RTS for the casuals. And it was the casuals that spent money on buying 3-4 RTS games each year. The multiplayer pros were stuck on their one chosen RTS and trying to get better at it. They never tried to branch out, they never bought other RTS games.

>>382672219
Battle Realms was like what would happen if someone took all the worst features from every RTS I hated and put them in one game

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>>382663537
>the inexistent e-sport crowd
http://dota2.prizetrac.kr/international2017

>>382672321
>statistically impossible to ever win a match unless you read up online on the current meta
I think you don't quite understand what a metagame is.
You should be able to figure it out by playing the game.

>>382671109
>league of legends
>rts

Are you retarded? Or merely pretending?

>>382672321
>90s
>LAN RTS with my friend every weekend
>even matches
>he starts playing online
>gets good, learns to rush
>we LAN and starts crushing me
>7 games later I learn to adapt and finally beat him once
>feels super satisfying
>he gets mad and goes home

>>382672321
This

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>>382664882
making big epic bases sh*t out big epic armies and attack-moving doods into enemy doods and pretending im watching the lotr trilogy

>>382672901
Sadly, only SupCom had good enough AI and pathfinding to make it fun to watch a blob moving forward.

>>382664882
>>382664882
KEEP MONEY LOW

>>382672142
have you ever heard adequate reasoning though, and if you have, could you link it?

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>tfw no good age of empires sequel
>tfw no good age of mythology sequel
>tfw no good total annihilation successor
M-maybe someday

>>382672321
the reasonable answer to this problem is matchmaking, nothing else.

>>382673150
I've reasoned it myself in these threads and I don't really feeling like typing it out again because it comes down to "starcraft has strategy" "starcraft doesn't have ENOUGH strategy" "you're just mad cause you're shit at the game"

>>382672351
Explain.

Yeah it was babby's first RTS, but it was great.

>>382673286
Is there a matchmaking system that actually works?
Last time I had to deal with matchmaking it was tryhard central where everyone blamed everyone else for lowering their rank and only chill people were smurfs.

C&C is dead, not RTS
HOI4
Total war
Quite a few active players on both
It just doesn't cater to the same audience as any other genre of game except for maybe strategy/puzzle

>>382673486
there's no one to rage at in 1v1s, anon

>>382672551
lols popularity has turned developers into retards wanting to chase the moba esports crowd - see Dawn of War 3 or Command and Conquer 4

>>382673486
Maybe stop playing team games and stick to 1 v 1.

>>382673156
>>tfw no good age of mythology sequel
Considering who has the IP, you don't want an AoM sequel.

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>>382672321
>claims that online killed rts
>in his post he proves that it is casuals who killed rts
hmmm...

>>382673410
then what's the game that represents your golden mean of strategy in online play?

>>382673737
Microsoft did tease something about Age of Empires at E3 this year that isn't just more remaster stuff.

>>382673737
But an indie spiritual successor could work.
Like how Dungeon Keeper got this """sequel""" that was worse than holocaust, holodomor and katyń combined, but war of the overworld may actually not suck.

>>382673889
there isn't one, other RTS games aren't significantly more or less strategic than Starcraft, Starcraft is just the most popular one

>>382673572
>Dawn of War 3
Probably the biggest piece of evidence that MOBAs can be harmful to series, considering its development.
>>382673987
>>382673989
I more meant the group that did the China expansion, which was just flat bad. Them making an actual sequel could be a catastrophe on par with DoW3.

>>382673989
Indie devs are unlikely to have the budget to make the kind of RTS game that people would like to see, with a meaty singleplayer campaign and multiple diverse factions, balanced gameplay

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>>382673787
RTS only lived in the first place because casuals were buying the games. Once the devs decided to shit on casuals and chase after the mythical e-sports crowd, the money stopped flowing.

>>382660752
No they didn't. Technological progress killed the RTS genre. Blizzard was one of the last games studios that tried to revive the dying genre.

I'm someone who played RTS games since the very first C&C and at this point the genre offers nothing that other genres don't do better. RTS takes watered down tactics and watered down strategy and combines it. The reason this was done was because hardware couldn't handle in depth tactics games like Graviteam tactics or strategy games like Hearts of Iron at the time.
The RTS genre has 0 appeal with both tactics and grand strategy games in existence, that's why it died.

>>382660259

Starcraft and Warcraft weren't really RTS games to begin with.

They are closer to RTT games.

They are countless RTS titles that were superior to them but they involved steeper learning curves and matches take longer to resolve which is they never made it big in the "eSports" arena.

The only reason LOL and DOTA 2 took over is because they are even more simple and fast-paced then Starcraft 1.

>>382674236
War for the Overworld looks like a AAA effort at a DK sequel but it was made on a shoe-string budget.

>>382672551
MOBA are kinda the evolution of RTS for modern day shitters... ultra casual version of it with pre built defenses and only one unit to move.

What are you playing these days? Doesn't have to be RTS related.

why are you fags always being sad cunts, can't you just talk about the games normally

>>382662715
>Why is this narrative still being pushed
Because they can easily get away with it since most people don't play RTS and they need a scapegoat to blame instead of accepting RTS isn't popular.

>>382674528
What do you mean, normally

>>382663224

SC:R is just a quick cash grab and trying to cater to South Korean fags.

They don't even bother fixing the known issues with Brood Wars because "MAH BALANCE!"

60-80% of Compentive-tards are the cancer that killed RTT and RTS genres. They cannot adapt and wanted to stay with their conformable kiddie wheels.

>>382664882
Strategy is really just another word for plan

Why exactly people like broodwar but not starcraft 2? everyone always says because it became an esport then how come you prefer a game where you can only select 16 units and there's so many limitations on the player? broodwar seems more "esporty" to me than sc2

>>382674679
>hey guys let's talk about RTS games because we like them
not this
>dead genre ;_; let's moan for 250 posts about stupid shit and post our "opinions" on why a thing became less popular :(

>>382674313

No, RTS died because new generation of gamers don't have time or attention span to play an "actual" strategy and tactics game.

They want to click and shoot. Thinking is too hard and learning curves hurt their feelings when they keep getting raped for ~10-50 hours until they figure out the mechanics game.

>>382670479
Kill yourself kid.

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Supcom FA is still the best RTS game. sad there will never be a sequel

>>382674474
Red Dragon still.

Steel Division and Eugen can both Rip in Piss for all I care. It's one of the finest examples of a game stillborn from pandering to armchair generals

>>382674609
To be honest it might not be just RTSes not being popular, as they have a very dedicated niche, but the fact that it's very hard to make a good RTS. It takes a lot of thinking, testing, balancing, planning etc.

>>382674886

Starcraft 2 is a superior game than Starcraft 1. It is because outside of South Korea people. People get "bored" and move onto other thinks. They don't have an unhealthy obsession in playing the same game for decade straight.

Okay motherfuckers, let's talk RTS.

Any of you whiners ever played Spellforce? I just started. It's a great blend of RTS and RPG. inb4
>not a real RTS
>just MOBA with base building and resource gathering

Such a shame that I missed out on it when it first came out.

>>382674943
Y-you mean... We should... Enjoy it?

Watching DoW3 struggling to have more active players than DoW1 and DoW2 is fucking hillarious.

>>382675049

Yep, it is because Supreme Commander and Total Annihilation required a brain and the whole "APM" non-sense didn't matter nearly as much because a well placed nuke or surgical attack could decide the game.

>>382675147
deathblobs cannot be superior to 12 unit selections.

>>382675230
People who enjoy RTS games are having artifical fun. RTS games were shit and if you want to circlejerk over your favourite "I builtthe perfect base and defended for 4 hours until I mined out the map" game you should just play Sim City

>>382675147
>Starcraft 2 is a superior game than Starcraft 1
said no one ever

>>382675010
lol are you shitting me? You are literally delusional. There is no "actual" strategy or tactics in RTS games which doesn't exist in a much more in depth form in games like Graviteam Tactics, Red Dragon, Men of War or War in The Pacific, all of which are games that are still alive.

The people you're talking about are the only potential audience RTS games have left. Which I suppose makes you right in a sense, RTS games are dead because their target audience is better entertained by DOTA clones.
I said it before and I'll say it again, RTS is dead because technology has moved on. They cater more toward a niche that moved onto better games and the core audience has better choices available, like League of Legends and DotA2.

>>382663713
Do you not understand how the economy works? It doesn't matter how well something sells if something else sells the same and is easier to make they will ditch the first product or they will do what we saw with RTS's strip away the most expensive parts and see if it will still sell. If not then ditch the product.

RTS's are extremely time consuming to make vs other video games because of the single player.

>>382675010
Pretty much either that or letting the game play itself with the birth of the so called 'grand strategy'.

>>382675331
Deathblobs is a more fun game to play than gookclicker 1998

>>382675670
>Graviteam Tactics, Red Dragon, Men of War
aren't these all RTS?

>>382675331

SC1 had deathballs retard. Mutalisk stacking was the "original" deathball. It just required more micromanagement and group bindings to make it work effectively.

The reason why South Korea never liked SC2 has more do with elitism and politics.

They didn't like how their special niche at managing SC1's shitty UI was undermined by SC2's superior UI which allowed normies to fight on their "level". This shitty video from Incredibles sums it up.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A8I9pYCl9AQ

Blizzard-Activiison tried too hard to cash on eSports scene which pissed them off. SC1 retraction is a just a large middle figure to them. They probably wouldn't even bother with SC:R either.

>>382675729
>RTS's are extremely time consuming to make vs other video games because of the single player.
no they aren't, RTS single player campaigns are extremely easy to make, considering they barely have any new art assets and the AI is awful
a fully 3D AAA game is much more time consuming to make than an RTS. Indies could make RTS games if they weren't as difficult to program

>>382674313
Blizzard stifled creativity in the User Map Settings (Custom) community by changing the game selection list from listing each game by the time the host created it to listing each game by the ""popularity"" of the map.

Everyone just played the same maps after that and there was no incentive for map makers to create unique maps. So you just had the same kinds of custom maps, all pretty simple and based on concepts designed not in SC2 but way back in the WC3 and in some instances SC custom map communities.

Blizzard fucked up really, really badly, and it was completely unavoidable. I'm pretty certain it was unintentional retardism on their part.

>>382675937
Completely avoidable*

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this is one of the more recent ones that has had good write ups, anyone here played it? I own it but havent yet

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>>382670208
It hurts.

We'll never get another game like this.

>>382676023
It looks like a supcom clone and it's dead, on steam charts it says 190 players currently playing it.

>>382675878
They are RTT. Although Graviteam tactics has a light strategy layer. It's not actual high level strategy, since you're not controlling the war production or logistics chain.

>>382675937
Dunno about that, but as far as I'm concerned at the point SC2 arrived on the market, RTS was LONG dead. All that was left was basically the esports clickfest wank and a few people playing good old Supreme Commander for that Total A nostalgia hit.

>>382675670

No, it is because LOL and DOTA2 are painful simple and fast-paced.

They are overhead perspective version of COD and CS:GO.

Funny part is that Westwood tried pulling this off back in the day with Sole Survivor but it flopped because online gaming was still in its infancy and PC gaming scene was filled with enthusiast not causal kiddies.

>>382676330
DOTA2 has 100 times more depth than most RTS games

>>382660259
Market climate does not favor RTS for a moment.
And it is subject for change given time.

>>382675937

Blizzard wanted to avoid a repeat of the next "LOL and DOTA" when some mod uses their code to make a new gaming mode that goes off and becomes a stand-alone title.

>>382662703
Star Wars: Empire at War and Forces of Corruption

>>382660752
but Starcraft II was the best RTS since Warcraft III. Think about it for a moment: how many decent RTS games can you think of that were made in the past 10 years?

If anyone else made an RTS game today it'd be dead as fuck. Even the AoE2 remake was dead as fuck, and people fucking love that game. SC2 was at least pretty big for a few years.

The issue is that RTS games require too much dedication and attention span for the typical modern-day smartphone / console gamer. Matches can last an hour or two, are usually 1v1, have insanely high skill ceilings, and can be extremely unforgiving to new players.

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>>382662287
Name one hundred (100) really bad RTS games made in the 90s

>>382676436

No, it doesn't. It is as deep as "Checkers".

It is just a click-fest and simple numbers game.

Try playing an actual strategy game that you just can't click and twitch yourself out of sticky situation.

>>382676604

^^^^^ This

>>382676645
>Try playing an actual strategy game that you just can't click and twitch yourself out of sticky situation.

list some.

>>382676330
RTS games are simple and fast paced too, you know. You are correct in that RTS is more in depth and slower on average than DotA clones, but you have to understand that both of these genres fundamentally appeal to the same foaming from the mouth and shaking audience.
It would be almost impossible for me to play RTS games today, they are far too simplistic and shallow and you get the exact same experience from DotA. Which I, by the way, do not like or play either - but have played a bit in the past so I have a pretty good idea what it's like.

>>382670208
>TFW it was unfinished

>>382666932
>How would you implement scouting so the average player finds it fun?

You can't. Strategy games require multitude of skills from a player to be able to play at acceptable levels. If you try to simplify or casualize one aspect it stops being a strategy game and becomes assfaggots

>>382669849
>>382661258
>RTS where you control 300 of the same exact unit and just smash them into another wall of units

This is what killed the genre

>>382676645
Not that guy but it sounds like you've never actually played DotA before. DotA has much more mechanical depth than any RTS due to the huge variety of heroes and abilities, but it has a lower skill ceiling.

>>382676889
>. You are correct in that RTS is more in depth and slower on average than DotA clones
Dota is MUCH slower than an RTS game, and don't confuse how difficult something is to control with how deep it is

>>382676645
*stuns u*

>>382676314
There were people who played Blizzard RTS games not for melee but for the custom maps. I can't say how large those communities were, but they were pretty substantial--the entire DOTA sub-community in WC3 for example.

Starcraft 2 pretty much ended all that. Before SC2's game selection, any good, fun game had the potential at least to get crazy popular.

>>382676645
>it's a "can't tell if bait or just retarded" episode

>>382676645
You're forgetting there are over 100 characters in dota2 and league of legends, plus there's a lot of items to further customize your character giving you a lot of choices so I guess they are deeper than your average RTS since the majority of RTS games have less than 50 different units.

They are easier though since you only need to worry about 1 unit instead of a whole base

Skill floor is too high and too intimidating to ever reach a massive audience.

Warcraft 3 was very popular back when I was a kid, and none of the kids I knew who played it had any knowledge of what build orders and unit counters are. We all played the campaign with cheats on, then proceeded to play DotA/Fight of the Anime Characters.

>>382674313
I actually think this argument holds some merit. The hardcore grognard faction can get their strategy fix in grand strategy or RTT, while the casuals are simply playing MOBAs.

I don't buy the entire "hurr, everyone is too stupid to play RTS nowadays". The genre has simply moved on and transitioned into games that target specific segments of the market very accurately.

>>382676974

It have played both DOTA2 and LOL and their predecessors (WC2 DOTA mod and Aeon of Strife).

They are overglorified hero/dungeon crawlers with an overhead perspective. Matches are decided by simple numbers game and who can micro their hero the game best.

>>382676295
Its also made by Stardock. I mean, Stardock used to be good, but now they're just shitting out shovelware games these days. And whats worse, they're now copying the Paradox model and shitting out half assed DLC after shitty half assed DLC for way more than they're worth. The CEO is also a massive narcissist who has repeatedly thrown tantrums when people criticize his games.

>>382676974
>>382677091
> I guess they are deeper than your average RTS since the majority of RTS games have less than 50 different units.
>much more mechanical depth than any RTS due to the huge variety of heroes and abilities
wargame red dragon, with its 2000 units, is the height of strategy then.

>>382676645
>Try playing an actual strategy game that you just can't click and twitch yourself out of sticky situation.
Like Dota 2 and League?

>>382677091

>100 of characters when majority of that list are just reskins or sight re-tweaks of the same archetype.

>implying that is "depth"

>>382677205
>simple numbers game
name a game that isn't
you can't

>>382677205
you sound like someone who just googled dota and wants to sound like he knows shit actually lolin right now

The truth is, a good rts needs too much work put in it for it to be good. It needs a good campaign. It needs good factions that are balanced. It needs tons of maps and modes. It needs the ability to make custom maps and game modes easily. It needs tons of unit models made and their portaits and tons of lines for each. And it needs some resource gathering/gameplay gimic that hasnt been done before to make it standout. No one wants to risk it on making an rts because even with all that, your game will still probably fail because rts isnt a genre that sells to normal gamers at face value. A game trailer with gameplay for an rts just isnt exciting to most gamers.

>>382676604
This is beyond accurate but you turds will still cling to the hivemind of being antiblizzard

They can be shitty, but least they tried

Also, MOBAs killed RTS, SC2 made an attempt at saving it at least

>>382677343
maybe for LoL, not the case for DOTA2
100 heroes x 100 items just provides so much more depth than 11 units x 3 factions

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this game was the pinnacle for me.

>less robotic than sc2
>more micro intense
>reversing units
>build order cheesing

yep, i loved it.

>>382677205
You couldn't pretend to have oldfag cred less beliveably if you tried.

>>382677343
Have you ever played a moba? I only played DOTA and there's not 1 single hero that is similar to another, they may have the same roles but if you don't know their abilities you are at a huge disadvantage since you can't adapt your strategy

A quick example is Juggernaut's ultimate is more effective when you're alone (a bit simplified) so you shouldn't try to engage him without your creeps/minion/bot-units

>>382660259
Turnbased is better anyways

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>>382677270
Can confirm. Proof.

>>382677576
poor mans generals

>>382677405

Kiddio, I have played them and played Warcraft 1 and Dune 2 back in their heyday.

LOL and DOTA2 are juvenile as fucked which is why it is such a massive hit with this demographic like COD and CS:COD.

It becomes stale and old after 10 hours or so for people who have been playing strategy and tactic games for years.

Has there ever been an RTS that implemented diplomacy as an integral part of game design? Genuinely curious.

>>382677719
being old isn't an indicator of intelligence apparently

F

I loved scbw. Unfortunately low iq tards can't understand it so they will only play assfaggots, which killed the genre.

RTS died when they tried to force esports and online shit too hard
No one sane wants to learn autistic meta tactics and key binds. Your average gamer who plays RTS just wants a comfy campaign or a skirmish against AI that he can play at his own pace (see Age of Empires, World in Conflict, Company of Heroes, etc.), not play online with some raging autistic losers that are toxic as fuck to the new players

>>382676987
On average? No. DotA is faster. It is slower than SC2 and SC, but it's certainly not slower than Supreme Commander, Total A or even Age of Empires.

And I'm not confusing anything here. If anyone is confused it's you. Neither RTS games or DotA are particularly deep. Both rely heavily on static recipes/build orders and have fairly easy to grasp gameplay. I don't see what point you're trying to make.

I'm not saying that DotA is shallow like a twitch shooter or whatever. I'm saying that on average it's more shallow and faster than RTS games. WHICH ISN'T EVEN A BAD THING. That's why it's so popular. That's why RTS is dead. RTS is not deep enough for people like me, and it's not shallow and fast enough for the people who moved onto DOTA clones. Now it's dead. And nobody misses it, except nostalgiafags.

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Tiberium Wars or Red Alert 3?

>>382677280
I never played it but I highly doubt there's literally 2000 units since it's a military rts, maybe some units are similar but slightly different, you can't count those otherwise you could say the same about a moba, everytime someone chooses a character but has a different build you can't count it as a different character otherwise there would be much more than 100

Btw i didnt say "more units=more strategy" I just said it makes the game more "deeper" since there's more stuff to learn

>>382677343
Unlike LoL, each DotA character is very unique. Each character in DotA serves a unique purpose and functionality, synergizing well with certain heroes on your team and being effective against certain heroes on the enemy team.

League, on the other hand, is more (almost entirely) about personal preference. You pick the character you think is fun or looks cool and just roll with it. There's a little more to it at high level play, but not much.

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>tfw hit masters-3 this season

>>382677704

maybe so, but can u reverse tanks in generals? thought so.

>>382677851

They are childishly simple games. That's why are such massive hits. Riot and Icefrog aren't stupid. They know they won themselves a massive cash cow (via unlockables) and secured the younger demographics. They aren't going to try anything different.

>>382677906
most RTS games are over in 20 minutes, if not 5
Dota takes 40
and the skill floor of a game doesn't determine how deep it is, have you heard the term "easy to learn, hard to master?" being hard to get into doesn't make something deep (see every grand strategy game)

>>382675118
RTS is a genre that peaked early.
Truth is, I could play a Brood War or Command&Conquer game from time to time until my old age. Chess hasn't evolved in seven centuries.
Supreme Commander is the last RTS that truly tried something new and that was 10 years ago.

>>382677691
What a faggot

>>382673286
matchmaking doesn't help. people just get mad about their ranks.
>I'm only bronze because the game doesn't reward REAL strategy
>I could be gold but I don't want to stoop to META

>>382678061
congrats. you must have an insane level of skill.

Any tips for someone getting into SC? it's always something I wanted to do and I want to get super hardcore into it with SC hd remix whatever. I play fighting games so I'm used to big learning curves, but I love the rts genre.

>>382678135
>Trying to sound "in the know" when you're a complete fucking moron

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>>382677719

>>382678061
How it is these days? I went from bronze to masters in WoL, but haven't played since. Are people better or worse now?

>>382677719
As someone who's played the same games and is also older, you're talking out of your ass. Just because you personally don't like DOTA 2 doesn't mean it's "juvenile as fucked."

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rts '''died''' because casual faggots were too insecure and anxious to play online and mobas sweeped the casual market

the truth is rts never died because anyone who truly enjoyed rts still plays rts

and boy I can't wait for sc:r

>>382678135
>dota
>unlockables
now you're just making shit up

>>382678061
Sauce my man if that's really a boy.

>>382677576
My favorite C&C, even better than RA2 and every other C&C made by westwood in my opinion

>>382677704

UI is miles better and micro has more options in TW which is why I will never like another RTS again

>>382678249

> Trying to play mental gymnastics when your sacred cow is somehow "deep" when in reality it is just a shallow as a fast-food meal.

>>382677576

>>>382678461

>tank rush every game

>>382677930
Tiberium Wars easily
RA3 is some lolrandum dumb bullshit

>Decided to buy warhammer 40k because everyone on the internet says it's pretty good
>"Use the home key to see your base" I'm playing on a laptop
>Units bump into each other
>Need to retreat squads over and over because you decided to give them machine guns instead of rocket launchers
>Models look like extracted from a child's game
>Campaign is very slow paced
Aside from the memes this game is kinda ok, and I don't know if I'm complaining or not but now I have to finish it because autism

>>382678235
those are both valid reasons though. climbing ranks generally means playing in a very boring and repetitively-consistent way rather than just having fun and doing quirky stuff. I'd rather be an average rank by doing off-meta strategies than a high rank by treating the game like a fucking dayjob and playing to the meta as if my life depended on it.

although, maybe I'm just getting too old to give a shit about some bogus number or symbol that's supposed to represent my skill when there's so much more to life.

>>382678135
>unlockables
I said it once before, I'll say it again:
you sound like someone who just googled dota and wants to sound like he knows shit actually lolin right now

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>>382678243
I just got into SC2 with Legacy of the Void, so it's definitely never too late to start. I recommend watching PiG's "daily"s on YouTube, they go over a lot of how to succeed. Even at my level, macro matters way more than micro and my APM is only 150ish. I'm sure you'll do much better with fighter reflexes under your belt.

>>382678347
I couldn't tell you, I just started with Legacy of the Void, so I don't know what it was like before. Everyone says GG and will respect pauses - even when I was in gold, so take that for what you will.

>>382678459
I have no idea, I just named it that to bait responses.

>>382678164
>Truth is, I could play a Brood War or Command&Conquer game from time to time until my old age.

That's nostalgia talking, brood war and the first 2 CnCs has severe technological and game mechanic issues that make them unplayable without rose tinted goggles.
You're right though, RTS is dead because it failed to evolve at all, while the RTT and Moba genres rapidly adapted and left RTS in the dust.

>>382660259
I never found a replacement for C&C:Red Alert

>>382678153
Average game length has literally nothing to do with depth. And DOTA certainly isn't hard to master because it has significant gameplay depth, neither are strategy games. In both cases, the hard to master part is from the difficulty of control, memorizing build orders/recipes/counters/synergy and developing muscle memory.

I don't know why you find it necessary to denigrate RTS games to this extent. The genre is dead and it's not coming back, so you don't have to be afraid of people leaving DOTA for them.

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>>382675318
>someone being a retard and not placing tac defense or scouting an overpriced silo can decide a game
ok dude
secundo, early game SupCom requires a lot of attention (read: apm) to keep up with the expansion of mass and energy production, medium-scale unit movements as misjudging enemy moves might snowball into falling behind, and late-game the Apex Predator of the food-chain of counters, the T3 Air Superiority Fighters, DO require gookclick-tier micromanagement to make them more effective, and if you don't do it, the enemy might and semi-literally assfuck your fleet with 50% units left.

Also, give me an example of a game which you can win with 0 APM.

Should I buy SC2 or just wait for SC:R?

>>382677930

tib wars / kanes wrath probably the best and last truly good, fastpaced RTS with satisfying as fuck explosions and effects, lots of cheese, perfect UI, fun microing

>>38267875

Cosmetics are still unlockables though. It is how Icefrog and Riot make their dough.

They aren't stupid my friend.

Blizzard is doing the same shit with Overfail.

>>382675318
I'm pretty sure the only strategy in ta was peewee rushing or a couple meme strats where you tried to snipe the enemy commander

>>382660259
I just want more games like Wargame

>>382678828
SC:R will be dead on arrival.

The only reason SC2 was popular for awhile is because it was casualized to hell (which is a good thing, honestly, since it means it's actually possible to find other people willing to play it that AREN'T 400APM korean gods). SC:R is an extremely hardcore game that requires high micro to play at anything beyond the most basic level. Nobody is gonna wanna play that shit when it comes out.

>>382678824
I was talking about speed, not depth
having gameplay depth is what makes something hard to master
being difficult to control makes something hard to get into, until you get used to the controls
No idea what you're trying to get at guessing my motivations

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>>382677874
>learning key binds is autistic
how cognitively impaired are thot

>>382660259
I want a small squad based RTS with the complex damage sistem of dwarf fortress.

There are anything like that?

>>382677874
git gud

>>382677576
Last good C&C with KW
And good mods

>>382677930
RA3 is fun for what it is but when considered as part of the CnC universe its pretty shit.
Mechanically its not THAT bad compared to RA2 or Tib Wars, but they really did a serious number on the setting, tone and art style and the single player cutscenes and a lot of the levels are just unforgivably bad.

>>382679045
DOTA2 is also faster though. The gameplay pace is higher than anything short of Starcraft. I mean I get that the game is designed to artificially make it impossible to rush to victory really fast which makes each game last longer and that's something not present in RTS - but this doesn't make the game slower, it just makes each match take longer. You still have to play at the same pace.

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>>382679406
closest thing that comes to mind right now is RimWorld

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>>382672219
>>382673445
Battle Realms is great. Ignore that guy.

>>382660259
Looking at this screenshot im reminded of how bad sc2 looked.

I can't even tell what im looking at half the time.

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You are not a strategic genius.
You suck at the strategy layer just as badly as the mechanics/tactics layer, the latter is just more obvious to you.

>>382668654
>let's make the template for the best kinds of RTS games!
That's not Total Annihilation.

Protoss > Terran > Zerg

>>382679808
Hey buddy it seems you made an error in that post, let me make a friendly correction here, after all we're all friends here, no hard feelings.

Terran > Zerg > Protoss

>>382678627
it's not a valid reason it's literally just crying because you refuse to learn the game. it's like trying to play chess and complaining that rooks can't move diagonally and calling your opponent a tryhard because he doesn't move his pieces completely at random.

>>382676927
>unfinished
>but feels more finished than most of "finished" games

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>>382678984
we're out of luck. Who knows what Eugen are thinking nowadays.
Strange how no one's come to emulate the series. You'd think it's obvious that Eugen had a monopoly over a valuable niche.

>>382679986
Hey buddy it seems you made an error in that post, let me make a friendly correction here, after all we're all friends here, no hard feelings.

Terran > Protoss > Zerg

>>382677874
This is the real reason that RTS is dead.

Devs started focusing on multiplayer over single player, so the normies lost interest in the genre and moved on, then the genre slid into gookclick and stale meta, so the rest of the player base also lost interest and moved onto GS, RTT and mobas. Now all they have to show for it is a tiny cadre of autists who hate things changing, hate things staying the same and especially hate anything not called starcraft.

>>382680147
The new game they made is shit compared to a real wargame. Casualized trash instead of sticking to their core.

>>382679574
rimworld is even less rts than df

>>382680378
You mean SD? I'm glad it didn't taint the "Wargame" title.

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>>382679808
>>382679986
>>382680182
Zerg >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Terran >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Protoss

>Friend buys me Total Warhammer
>Never play a Total War game
>It's fucking horrible
Does this shit even qualify as an RTS?

>>382680581
whoever that "friend" was he shouldn't be your friend anymore.

>>382680327
do you have a single fact to back that up? like people have already mentioned the only "new" game to even pretend to care about koreans was sc2, and it still had a bigger single player mode than most other games.

>>382672321
Completely agree. It also doesn't help that the RTS had a chance to come back with Starcraft 2 and Blizzard beyond fucked up that game with matchmaking, meta, balance, community interaction, etc.

It was a colossal disappointment to an extent that even the Koreans dropped it. And they were more hyped for that game than anything I can remember

>>382660259
someone could revive the RTS genre with waifus

I just picked up Northgard on the sale. I really enjoyed Banished and AoM/E. That siad I typically play Company of Heroes 2. Are there any other good RTS games coming out anymore? I wasn't expecting much from DoW3 and it was still a major let down. I don't understand why Relic decided to move so far away from the original CoH and DoW.

>>382677205
Almost a good bait.

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>>382681257
Weaboos stay out of RTS

>>382680147

I like Wargame, but they need to do something about infantry micro. It's pretty awful. They could take a note from relic there.

>>382680581
It's not an rts but total war games are still fantastic.

>>382681429
I'm not sure why. I for one really like how every aspect of the game requires about the same level of micro.

>>382681309
>I don't understand why Relic decided to move so far away

You do realize DoW1 and DoW2 was already far apart right? Just wait for the inevitable xpansions. Those always fixes Relic fuckups.

>>382681675

The only thing you can do with infantry is shack them up somewhere. Other than that they just run around in a circle formation being useless cannon fodder. They should have made them a little more realistic and implemented cover outside of buildings.

>>382681691
Really though. DoW3 might be great in two years.

>>382680517
The WW2 shit. Dunno how it's called.

>>382681415
kek already a thing Sorta, at least it tried
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2YuubWCHk5o

>>382682028
you have to think about positioning, micro RPG/MG and their transports. I think that's plenty.

>>382682157
steel division 42

I just lost vs OKW

>muh invisible AT guns
>muh braindead unkillable panthers
>muh a-move super efficient infantry (it's ok for them to take on 2 con squads at once, they cost 10 mp more :^)

feels terrible man

>>382681691

Yeah, I know. DoW2 was a huge letdown. I thought it was pretty sad that you could have more units on the battlefield in CoH2 than in DoW2. CoH2 in it's current state is a huge improvement over the first game, and I still enjoy both. All we have for Warhammer is Soulstorm and Dark Crusade, and they are both pretty dead.

>>382682310
44*

>>382680786
The only survivors of the meltdown were SC2, DOW and COH, which all had extensive single player campaigns (I can't imagine anyone would have bought Hots or lotv if they were multi-only content).
All the contemporary failures like grey goo, AoS and AoA catered almost entirely towards multiplayer with minimal single player content and consequently failed to sell enough to create a viable multiplayer base.

Also, at the time of the meltdown back in 2007-10, every two-bit RTS was trying to do esports and gookclick, even RA3 succumbed.

>>382674474
Grey Goo.
Despite having the silliest name for a game in existence, its pretty original in some places and brings me back to the days of Command and Conquer.

>want to play RTS
>forever too shit to find anyone bad enough to play with in multiplayer
>no RTS game ever made with a fun campaign

>>382660259
You 'esport' niggers ruined deep and complex rts for quick rushed ones.

>>382682417
>I thought it was pretty sad that a newer game could do something better than an older game with comparable graphics

>>382682372

lol You can't just throw a couple conscript squads at a panther and hope it works out. Especially if that panther is supported by infantry. All tanks in CoH are pretty vulnerable if you outflank them. Except the Churchill. That thing is retarded OP.

>>382682586
how. Maybe they weren't as deep and complex as you thought

RTS were only fun before minmax meta gaming was a thing.

>>382682649

Bro, that's no excuse. You could field more units in the original DoW. They just half assed the game on scale for whatever reason.

>>382682758
I didn't do that

>All tanks in CoH are pretty vulnerable in you outflank them

no, command panther just reverses back to base while killing all your shit, it's so braindead and durable

>>382676604

>The issue is that RTS games require too much dedication and attention span for the typical modern-day smartphone / console gamer.

I'm pretty sure the issue is that their are more options to pick from for your gaming.

The only reason everyone played Starcraft back in the day was because the list of awesome games was shit.

wait wait aint blizerd releasing his armies of warcraft in the future?

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>Play AoE2 last night
>Get severe tunnel vision meanwhile my friend cannibalizes my base
I'd rather play CnC and FA over Age 2.

>>382682917
You can field about the same number of squads, there are just less units in a dow2 squad because they have to fit behind cover properly. I'd say it takes more micro to control DoW2 well than DoW1. But I don't think that's your concern, I think you were just referring to the spectacle.

>>382660259
RTS was a shit genre to begin with. Only autists of the highest caliber could play them.

>>382682417

Dawn of War 2 having less units on the map was a feature, though. I can't even imagine how much of a cluster-fuck it would have been with DoW1 scale armies mixed with DoW2 gameplay.

Actually I do know, because someone made a mode that basically doubled the model cap and quadrupled the overall supply cap for all units, and it's fucking shit.

>>382682917
no, they decreased the number of units because the game was more tactical and less a-move into their dudes
In DoW1 it doesn't really matter if you lose a unit here or there unless it's a super heavy
In DoW2 you have to care for each unit because even losing a starter unit like a scout can fuck you over, not to mention you not having the same ability to make up lost ground means using a super heavy can and 9 times out of 10 is devastating

Any good RTS games to get at the steam sale?

>>382682991

Command panther might be different. I never use it. All tanks in CoH are killable though. You just gotta find what works. I play axis pretty much exclusively. I always have my armor supported unless they are doing hit and run tactics. The only way enemies usually take mine out is by baiting, disabling and finishing with AT. Or by overwhelming with more numbers. You just have to account for German armor being superior late game (with a couple exceptions).

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>>382670503
>Mussolini
>"high score"

>>382683268
>>382683405

That's pretty much what I'm getting at. We are talking about Warhammer 40k here. You would expect large scale battle out of a 40k title. I enjoy the tactical combat (the cover system update, etc.). My only other gripe is cutting the base building out.

>>382683425
the best RTS game ever made is only $5 right now for the gold edition (supcom1 + FA)

>>382683620
I liked the scale, I think it's honestly closer to a lot of the canon. A chapter of marines is only around 1000 and you could lose most of that in a single game of DoW if it went on long enough which was pretty insane. The tabletop is aimed more to skirmishes.

>>382682417
>I thought it was pretty sad that you could have more units

Number of units is never an aspect that dictates the quality of RTS games. DoW2 was aiming to be this RTT/RPG hybrid since the beginning and thus have to sacrifice some RTS features in order to accommodate the more complicated ranged/melee combat+ARPG mechanic. The CoH series in comparison doesn't have to focus much on melee combat and RPG mechanics so they have the time and energy to improve upon the existing RTS framework. Those that enjoyed RTS gane will find themselves flocking to the CoH series.

>>382683653
one that isn't space shit

>>382669983

>makes the best games of their genre

Dude SC1 and WC were APM clickfests all the way back then. The best RTS games are the ones that actually allow you to have fun like AoE, the first Empire Earth, CnC etc

>>382683062

All I can say to your bullshit is 1998 and 2004.

Go to google, search for '1998 in video games' and '2004 in video games'.

Tell me with a straight face that there has been a single year since 2004 with games of both the quality and quantity of those years.

I thought so. Shut your dumb hole.

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>>382684353
>weeh evul apm weeh

>>382684353
>c&c
>not a clickfest
just because you were a scrub doesn't mean the game wasn't fast

>>382684761

>everyone re-installs old Westwood CnC games all the time and have good fun with campaigns/skirmish
>nobody will ever re-install gookclick 2

>>382685262
Heart of the swarm has a pretty good campaign even if the story is quite bad, the other two are pretty forgettable though.

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best rts intro?

>>382685684
>Heart of the swarm has a pretty good campaign
literally the worst of the sc2 campaigns
it's so fucking easy and kerrigan makes it feel like a bad moba

>>382680517
I don't get why people don't like SD. In terms of game mechanics, responsiveness, immersion and realism it's far better than Wargame.

Yeah ok, the older deck system offered more freedom, but that was about it. And even then, everyone either used one of ~5 meta decks or tried to make a generalist one. The Divisions in SD actually offer some degree of uniqueness.

>>382685834
All three are easy as fuck, but the missions were (mostly) a lot more interesting and fun than the other two, especially when you weren't using a hero.

>>382685684
I think it got just worse and worse. Definitely digged Wings of Liberty tho

>>382686064
you have to use a hero in every mission and it's the easiest of them all

>>382685715
I'm kinda partial to Total Annihilation

>"What began as a conflict over the transfer of consciousness from flesh to machines escalated into a war which has decimated a million worlds..."

RA2 was also dope as fuck

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>>382678616
Which DoW are you playing?