Just don't get the hype.

Lock on to Ornstein because he's the one zipping around the cathedral
Keep backing off (but don't run into a corner like an idiot)
Make sure to keep them both in view by maneuvering around
Wait for O to attack you and miss because you sidestepped it while S is in the back being fat
Hit O a few times
Repeat
It couldn't be easier

>>382646341
I think it's more the music and aesthetic, and it being a fitting climax to Anor Londo which was already a pretty steep difficulty spike.

>>382646449
Tried it, doesn't work for me. Smough always stays right on top of me because no matter where I am or what I do he only spams his "Choo Choo" charge. Ornstein will, at most, charge way off screen AS I dodge Smough's charge so that I lose sight of him, OR if I stay locked on to Ornstein I lose sight of Smough.

It's not that I'm having "trouble" with the fight, it's that it's so chaotic and messy, filled with spam and cheap tactics that it just isn't impressive... and usually isn't fun. And if they DO behave in the way I want them to, it ends up being incredibly boring because it's just a matter of waiting for them to get in the right position to attack them without getting hit, and that's if I'm not using a slower weapon.

>>382646810
Bad AI RNG does not magically make the fight more chaotic just because you're too bad to handle the fucking shovel charge
>O charges away while you're locked on to him
>S does his shovel charge while out of sight
>there's literally only one way S can go and it's easy to dodge him even if you're really so unlucky he's out of sight every time he does it
Come on man
>it ends up being incredibly boring because it's just a matter of waiting for them to get in the right position to attack them without getting hit
Yeah once you figure out how it works it's just a battle of patience and attrition unless you're so overleveled you can stomp them. Definitely not a good fight for replays, I'll give you that

>>382646341
Not sure if pasta. O&S is a terrible fight gameplay wise if you play a melee build due to the mentioned problems of openings and unfair hitboxes. It's very easy for casters on the other hand. If you compare this fight with the demon princes in ds3 or the shadows in bloodborne, I feel like FROM improved on these asymmetric fights. Nevertheless people remember O&S precisely because it was such a huge roadblock for good or bad reasons and it still is the hightlight of the game. Everything afterwards fell off harshly when compared to ds1's first half.

>>382646995
If you saw video you'd understand what I mean and I'm just not explaining it right. I might have shit luck with them, but trust me... every time I fight them it's just shitty AI spam.

And don't get me wrong, I'm not particularly great at this fight, but I understand it and don't really struggle... I just don't much joy out of it.

Worst experience I have ever had with them is using the Lucerne. Both of them attack faster than it can with its quickest attack, and even when I'm directly against Smough a lot of the time I just randomly miss. Or Smough suddenly jumps out of reach. And >>382646449 this tactic in particular plain doesn't work if you want to kill Smough first, which... most people generally do.

>>382647247
Right, I was just going by what is easiest because Super Smough is usually considered easier
If you want to kill S first, just stay locked on O until he whiffs his attack, then drop the lockon to stab S's butt
>Both of them attack faster than it can with its quickest attack
That's why you don't attack during their combo bro
The opening for attacking O is either when he misses his charge or misses his 3 hit combo, you can easily get in a hit with any weapon then
The opening for attacking S is after he does any attack whatsoever, cause he's fat

>>382647174
I still feel weird about the whole "game drops off after O&S" thing. I get what people are saying, and I do know they actually had less time spent on that half, but I don't really feel the game is necessarily worse.

The first half of the game, to me, has better level design and more polish... but none of the areas are very interesting to explore or look at beyond Undead Parish/Burg. Whereas after O&S the areas are a lot nicer to look at and/or more interesting, but their level design is a lot worse.

They did get much better with duo/group fights in later games, though... but that's all the more reason why I'm just so surprised this still gets so much love. Plus, I honestly had that same experience a lot more with the Bell Gargoyles in DS1 than with O&S. They were my first real challenge, they were my first real "I did it" feeling, and they were a much better fight to me.

If you're trying to kill fatty first, far-reaching melee weapons make it really easy. If you're trying to kill slim first, fast melee weapons make it really easy. Bug out their AI with the pillars like FROM intended and you can kill them with any fucking build.

>>382647401
What do you mean by "interesting"? If you like the gimmick of all those areas after you get the Lordvessel, that's fine. Most people don't though
And a lot of them are just plain unfinished

>>382647489
I mean their design, their aesthetic, and their general purpose in the lore.

Early game you get basically a sewer, a pretty generic catacombs, a swamp, etc. Blighttown's lore is fairly interesting, but just looking at it and exploring it? It's... a swamp in a cave.

Late game you get the molten remains of the dragons' home, an arcane library full of horrifying experiments, a much more imposing catacombs filled with dark/light mechanics, a sunken ruins littered with the bodies of those who drowned to stop the Abyss and haunted by their spirits, etc.

Later game just has much more interesting areas to me. Most of them lack the superior level design of the first half, as I said... but what's good level design if it's not very interesting of an experience?

>>382647883
AL is quite interesting lore-wise once you get into it being abandoned by the gods and everything being an illusion

>>382648479
Yeah, but honestly I consider that closer to the later game areas since I don't think the level design is all that good. Visually it's stunning, but it's so bland to explore. So much of it is just big open, empty area with a shockingly low variety of enemies... and most of the enemies are isolated to their 'areas' and rarely mixed together. All the demons are on the balconies, the silver knights are all inside the main section of the castle, the painting guardians are ALL in the same room (some are just on the rafters), etc. And the sentinels are just shitty enemies that get WAY overused.

Anor Londo was REALLY cool to go through the first time... after that it's just dull.

The one area in the first half of the game I think is great both mechanically and aesthetically is Sen's Fortress. Very unique, clever, mixes up the gameplay, fun to explore. Win all around. And the Painted World is excellent, though where does that count as? First or second half?