Jonathan Blow: "Japanese games treat you like an idiot"

>>382641228
i am an idiot.

No. This a full-on superiority complex going on.

>>382641228
LOL WATCH HIM PLAY A JAPANESE GAME
https://youtu.be/PCdx9Sd1JxI

>>382641449
Jesus fuck what?

>>382641228
don't compare edmund to these 2 morons

Edmund actually made at the very least 2 brilliant, amazing games

Nobs at either side of him haven't mustered a single good game

>>382641228
Japanese games suck, why can't they just have openworld games with first person shooter elements, also make the graphics look realistic!

>>382641228
Well, the last western game I was tempted enough to buy was Alien Isolation, which probably isn't getting a sequel. Before that it was Black Flag, which doesn't NEED a sequel. Other than those two, I honestly can't remember the last western game I picked up... either MW2 or Far Cry Blood Dragon. Can't remember.

>>382641449
>not happy with making a walking simulator garbage he also recorded himself playing Zelda and he is worse than DSP
what did he mean by this?

Jonathan Blow is an idiot.

He has a point. The Japanese are freaked out by non-linearity. Plus, there is no subtlety in Japanese writing.

>>382642518
give me one example of a western game released from 1999 to 2017 that has better ''non-linearity'' than japanese games

He's right but still a cunt.
Japanese games hold your fucking hand for hours upon hours especially 3ds games where the whole game is a fucking tutorial

>>382642518
There's not a lot of subtlety to Western writing either, and there's a lot to be said for a finely crafted linear experience. People act like a game being linear is a sin or something, but creating an appropriately tuned level is a lot harder than creating an open world with copy/paste garbage throughout or a bunch of random levels that are designed to be tackled in any order.

>>382641228
If Japanese games treat you like an idiot then the majority of modern Western games must treat you like a mongoloid because I definitely know which one handholds you more.

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>>382641228
All three of these devs treated the indie game scene as a safe space. All I wanted was fun and comfy games, now we won't get any more.
Edmund from Indie Game: The Movie: "I just wanted to be somebody making games. Being indie used to mean being weird and quirky and anti-social." something along those lines.
I've said it time and time again, Taro hiding his face is what these guys should have done. Then again, they wouldn't have gotten the publicity for their old games.

>>382642779
https://boards.fireden.net/v/thread/381569113/#q381572860

xD
>t-they are just jealous

>>382642779
>3ds game

ofc it's going to treat you like a mentally retarded child, what do you expect form a literal retarded child exclusive platform

>>382642716
The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion

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>>382641228
>Implying even the least mechanically challenging Jap game isn't a living nightmare made manifest, designed to devour your soul as you struggle to comprehend your hopeless journey
Casuals.

Everything he says can be applied to the majority of both Japanese and Western games

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>>382643354

>>382643530
in terms of exploration and trial and error even a budget title like Way of the Samurai 4 is more complex than any western game released in the past 20 years

>>382641228
http://vocaroo.com/i/s0zanDYJwJNK

>>382643692
what would you say you've accomplished in this here vocaroo boo?

>>382643782
http://vocaroo.com/i/s0DCge85joyJ

>>382643853
http://vocaroo.com/i/s1O3iNTOc5ZT

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>>382641228
Why do white people have such high pitched voices and poor eyesight?

>>382644013
their moms are in the 50~60 so it means their moms spent their youth smoking weed and using alcohol

>>382641228
What have any of these nobodies done in the last three or four years? Look at the best games this year. Makes you think.

>>382641449
He:

> complains at GDC about tutorials then complains that BotW lacks comprehensive tutorials
> talks over narative then complaims he doesn't know where to go
> lacks spacial navigational skills as shown by his need to check his map.every 30 paces
> an hour in and he still has no idea what to do where to go
> instead of engaging in combat he turns his back and runs, getting hit in the process
> is insecure and unsure about jumping off of cliffs
> spins around... a lot. He spins around a lot.
> can't navigate an inventory menu imtended for small children

This dude sucks.

>>382644013
Blow is literally on the spectrum. And he's also gay.

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>>382641228
>westcuck game
>early access 2deep4you pixel shit
>mostly likely walking simulator or platformer the worst genres ever created
>talking shit about japanese games

>>382641228
I dunno, watching him play BotW made me think he actually is an idiot and will just fail at any game that doesn't treat him as such.

>treat you like an idiot
>from the guy who made an entire game about drawing lines like some kindergartener

>>382644406
BOTW is a trash game though

The UI criticism is on point though.

Japanese games have the clunkiest fucking UI. It's garbage.

>>382641228
Globalism is spending millions to make it cool to hate Japan or any country with a culture. Let it die

>>382644406
His latest game is based on ''mathematical'' puzzles that one of his developers made
And the entire game is a puzzle in a world full of nothing with graphics worse than Gone Home

>>382641228
Here's all you need to know:
>Complains about jap games holding your hands too much
>plays zelda and complains that he doesnt know what to do
>stuck on tutorial area for 4 hours.

>>382641449
>it's so strange to play a game in the year two thousand and seventeen without voice dialog
How can not notice he is a literal schizophrenic and people make fun of him?

>>382641449
This video completely discredits him. He plays just like my mom might, all the while making snarky remarks because he doesn't like that he doesn't understand.

Nobody should listen to anything he says. He can speak for modern video games as much as my mom can.

>>382644663
No it's not. If it's trash then what do you call the 99% of games below it?

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why are french people so arrogant?

They're not wrong.

>>382646430
He's from Quebec, not France anon.
Still, a shame that the most known game creator from Quebec is this guy.

Oh god that Zelda gameplay is infuriating. I had no idea he was such a retard.

>>382641449
he's right about pretty much everything he says. so there must be some weird personal grudges going on that explains the replies/ratings on the vid

>>382642518
>non-linearity
Linear isn't synonymous with bad. Non-linearity and freedom and the expense of goals/structure destroyed Western games.

>>382647818
at the expense*

I am honestly saddened by this

Reminder that in Snes era JRPG would normally feature complete walkthroughs of half their content. Yes, in completely linear games. You were supposed to buy magazine to beat the 2nd part

>>382643404
that's not a game, it's a visual novel, and a pretty badly designed one at that (don't pretend anyone ever bothered doing it without the flowchart)

>>382642518
>there is no subtlety in Japanese writing.
>GRR I KILL THE ENEMY ARMY
>GRR I KILL THE EVIL PARASITE ALIEN
>GRR I KILL THE EVIL CIS MAN THAT DESTROYED HUMANITY
>GRR I KILL DA POPO
so... subtle....

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>>382641449
WOW

>>382647414
same shit different country

Literally who are these people?

What importance have on the industry or the entertainment industry?

>>382648490
as obnoxious as the french are, french canadiens are 10x worse.

>>382641361
It's okay, Phil. You run your mouth. We get it.

>>382646430
>I just won some irrelevant shit at whatever contest
I'M INVINCIBLE

>>382644940
Try actually playing it, it's a good game. I know you don't like the guy, don't be a faggot.

>>382647559
What is like to have dementia?

>>382648504
>what importance does Braid have on the industry
It was the first big indie game that started a huge indie wave. It's pretty important.

>>382642518
>Make a non-linear game
>Whoops we forgot to put in enough enticing content to make it fun

Pretty much every western open world vidya in the last 10 years.

>FEZ, Braid and Witness are actually good games
>/v/ will forever hate them because their creators said something mean about weebs once
Sad

>>382641228
Based Phil was right all along.

>>382644406
he's ironically being bad at the game because he hates it so he can snark over it

>>382648686

So like Cave Story but on negative.

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>>382641449
>they're making this game with a protagonist who looks like he's a hunky 12 year old, it's not okay to do that
>why not just start him with some clothes, then give him better clothes
>japan has a history with showing underage kids


Is he wrong though?

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>>382648769
>FEZ
Really anon? Really?

Kind of miss Xbox Live Arcade, those were some good ass games.

>>382642518
The most recent Japanese game I've played was fairly non linear. Some might say it's as non linear as it gets.

>>382648870
>MUH TWITTER
Why do you give a shit? It's a good game, go play it. It's probably still the best indie platformer. Don't get the hate with these guys. They might be arrogant assholes, but at least they're pushing for something new in games.

>>382648864
If you think Link looks 12 you might genuinely be retarded.

>>382648853

He's playing it with a sarcastic pessimism, sure, but I'm pretty sure he also just sucks ass. It's bordering on that Polygon Doom gameplay on how amateurish his playing is.

>>382648964

nice try Phill

>>382648980
if you think he doesn't you've been brainwashed by japanese media where everyone looks half their real age

>>382648769
>FEZ, Braid and Witness are actually good games
is this 2014 all over again?
tumblr pigu go home

>>382648980
He's like 3/4 of an adult size, how old can he be

>>382648870
This really happened? How did I miss it.

"Go to bed [insert developer here]" is like the oldest joke on /v/ as if anyone who agrees with the devs is the devs posting but Phil actually DID come here to suck their own dick in disguise?

>>382648870
That shit with FEZ II was a complete lie to get attention right ?

>>382648998
Nice argument, internet warrior.

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The Millenium Puzzle in Wild Arms 2 says no.

>>382648709
Why are you so upset? Games like MGSV and BotW exist because the Japanese do not fully understand how to make good open world games with a lot of content. They struggle with even making linear games that are worth playing as it is, and practically all of their linear experiences are piss easy and involve constant hand holding.

>>382648964
The point is that it was Phil himself pretending to be someone else wanting FEZ 2 to come out.
Look at the delete button.

>>382649014
He looks about 12-14 I'd say. No older than 15.

>>382648989
he's not paying attention to the game because he doesn't like it while pretending to be an unbiased player to try and point out how shit he thinks the game is. He's not bad at video games, I've seen him play other games on stream. He basically just wants to make the game look like shit

>>382649030
considering he's 'retired' from the game industry and not receiving any attention I don't think so

>>382649102
I can read you know. I just don't see how that makes FEZ a bad game. It's not an argument.

>>382648626
what do we have here -- another emotionally compromised retard?

>>382641228
Joke thread.

>>382649102
neo/v/ is too stupid to even open an image

>>382641228
At the time, yes.
But of course only when talking about the bigger ones.
And not anymore.
Because western AAA games are just as guilty.

>>382641228

>Japanese games are handholdy and treat you like an idiot

Literally every single western game released these days has that obnoxious breadcrumb system that tells you exactly where to go and exactly what to do because god forbid players have to think for themselves.

>>382649250
I've never played it so I wouldn't know

>>382649105
>Literally "I'm just pretending to be retarded"
Fuck off

>>382649327
>At the time, yes.
did you even listen to the video? they talk about Street Fighter IV as an example of ''non linear game''. they are autists

>>382649079
All of these can be said about western games as well. The divide of "only western/eastern games are good" is simply an imagination of weeaboos and westaboos.

Almost everything these days is casual and holds your hand incredibly tightly to enable shitty players who are like "WOOOW HOW WAS I SUPPOSED TO KNOW THAT" because they kept mashing through the dialogue.

>>382649342
>Person stats that something is a certain way
>Attempt to discredit them by saying something else is that way

??????

>>382649412
yes, literally pretending to be retarded

>>382649172
I'm not talkin about the fact that it's cancel, but the fact that it ever existed.
FEZ surely demanded a lot of work to make, no one would just start immediately working on a sequel, even if the first one was a success.

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>>382642518
>Plus, there is no subtlety in Japanese writing.

>>382649501
Nah man, if you want to make a game look like shit, don't "pretend" to suck shit while acting like a snarky cunt about it.

"Ooh, I'm going to purposefully fall down this bottomless pit, why doesn't the game stop me from my own stupidity? Fucking bad game design amirite xD"

Just fuck off with that nonsense, either put in the effort or don't even bother at all.

>>382649504
>but the fact that it ever existed.
This

>>382641228
Who?

>>382649651
actually that's exactly what you do as a game designer if you want to act like the game is badly designed

>>382648686
All their game were shite though.

>>382641449
Is this guy fucking retarded? This is beyond DSP stupidity.

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>triggered weebs ITT

>>382642518
More like there is no sublety in video game writing

>>382648686
Hey faggot.
Cave Story did it first.

>>382649438
Well it's a great example if your talking about non linear games as it does not fall to the same category as "linear games", popular action/adventure/shooter games produced at the time.

>>382650143
cave story was better than braid, but it didnt really start anything, people had been making free indie platformers for decades

>>382650149
but they were talking about exploration games
do you even understand english? watch the video

>>382650226
No they were not, they were talking about games that don't treat you like an idiot.

>>382650347
>fighting games
>treat you like idiot due to tutorials during the exploration
go to bed Phill.

>>382649708
Keyword here
>act like
if you flail around like a retard and pretend that it's the game's fault that you're making stupid mistakes, you're just going to end up discrediting yourself in the long run because everyone that has played the game (or even just games in general) can tell when the game is fucking you over due to poor design and when the game is punishing you for poor decisions that you made as a player.

>>382650434
"Street fighter is pretty good"
I'm starting to think that it is you who did not watch the video and it is actually you who is autistic.

>>382650696
6 seconds before he said SFIV is pretty good he was talking about tutorials in exploration games

>>382650878
Yes but you don't have to go trough the tutorial to play the game, it's actually a prime example of a "pick up and play" game.

>>382649057
Wait... I think I know exactly who you are IRL, holy shit.

>>382641228
How stupid/hypocrit those guys can be ?
I never fell for the Braid/Witness meme, I knew it was some overhyped indie crap.

And from what I remember when trying Fez demo, that shit was a Nintendo-reference shifest.

>>382650972
EVERY SINGLE fighting game you don't need to read the tutorial

>>382641449
>this is the guy that made the witness

HAHAHA what a fucking joke

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>>382641228
He's just a bitter racist.

>>382649708
Why not save the theatrics and do a legit critical breakdown of the percoeved flaws like an adult would do.

A lot of the replies in this thread are wierd.

>>382651059
Yes but Street Fighter 4 was the newest and most relevant game of the genre.

>>382651110
>Why not save the theatrics and do a legit critical breakdown of the percoeved flaws like an adult would do.
because jonathan blow often acts like a child despite being an intelligent person, which is kind of the point I'm trying to get across. Why is he playing a game he doesnt like on stream just to subversively shit on it?

>>382651113
and is totally unrelated to the topic of exploration games with tutorials

>>382645256
Objectively superior but less money spent on reviews.

>>382651237
The topic was not "exploration games with tutorials", the topic was "opinions of bad game design in japanese vidya".

>>382641449
>1:07:59
Fucking God...

He's just a fucking normalfag who still hates Japan over the whole underage girls depiction meme and needs to find reasons to hate Japanese games that seem more reasonable than how they objectify imaginary females.

>>382641228
He's right, God Hand especially.

>>382651398
you are wrong. The first five seconds he talks about japanese games in general but the subject moves to exploration/tutorials in games

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>>382641228
>Phill Fish will never return to the game industry and continue to get shredded by bants
>Phill Fish will always be a one hit wonder

>>382641449
How did he even pass high school?

Did he even graduate?

>>382651210
>Why is he playing a game he doesnt like on stream just to subversively shit on it?
I don't know anon, why would he he bother playing a game he doesn't want to play just shit on it by "purposefully" playing like shit and acting like someone who has never played a game before?

I mean, the AVGN still bothers to go into detail about why some of the game he plays sucks so badly and uses appropriate examples to support his argument even though he's not even doing the videos for anything more than entertainment.

That's what makes this whole thing so ridiculous, a character that curses, drinks, and shits on games (sometimes literally) is able to produce more solid arguments for why a game is bad than a dude who proclaims himself to be an intellectual who is too good to play a Zelda game.

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>>382641228

>>382651559
And the discussion organically moves to the positives of japanese vidya as someone interrupted Blow.

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>Persona 5
>in a story conversation meetup with the gang
>literally 2 seconds after that scene ends they repeat almost the same shit via text then Mona forces you to go to bed
>wake up
>they have the exact same conversation yet again in class
>in the span of 2 minutes, you've been bombarded with this single conversation 3 times because apparently the japanese are retarded

Why is this allowed?

>>382651641
he's not trying to be avgn, he's just being a petty little bitch. and everyone curses and drinks

>>382651696
you are wrong to be quite honest Phil Fish is the retard that said SFIV was good because of ''lack of tutorials''

>>382648769
I liked Fez well enough initially, but the puzzles eventually get way too needlessly obscure to bother with.

>>382651695
I wonder if the guy who made this image was serious or if he was really that butthurt that someone insulted his husbando

>>382651910
Yes, it does not have tutorial boxes come up when you play it, what is your point?
It smartly has a separate tutorial section.

>>382651695
I hate him but none of these apply. I'm literally forced into lying no matter which choice this gives me. Shit game design.

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>>382651564
I laugh at Phil.
I laugh with Notch.

>>382641449
>/v/ has never accomplished anything this dude has
>haha im better than him
yikes /v/...

>>382648769
Fish was a gigantic cunt, even before the game released he had alienated a bunch of people by being obnoxious. You should check out the Fez TIGforums thread one day. Fez is still good even if its a nothing game.

>>382652024
not a single fighting game ever released has tutorial boxes
Training mode also was not relevant until SNK/Capcom started to port their games to PS1/Saturn

>>382641228
No, but anime (mostly) treats you like an idiot for sure.

>character is angry
>inner monologue explaining to audience that i am angry and here is why it is bad

I suppose they are catering to autists who can't pick up on context clues.

>>382652038
that was pathetic on notch's part
he could have easily ruined her paypal entirely, gotten her banned, freed us from one more tyrannical tranny but nope

>>382651695
I cannot imagine how butthurt you'd have to be to make this image.

>>382652105
Yes, such is the obvious legacy of fighting games.
Listen, these guys are autistic but not AS autistic as you want to twist this.

He's right in japanese games seem to overly tutorialize you on simple game mechanics (recent nintendo games come to mind). Western devs can't really throw stones too hard though because they recently stopped doing that shit.

>>382648686
>It was the first big indie game that started a huge indie wave
But Castle Crashers came out the same month as Braid and was a lot, lot more popular, and Cave Story was the original indie darling.

>>382652297
I'm not twisting anything he said SFIV was good due to autism and wanting to change the subject because by that time he knew he fucked up

>>382652324
western games tradtionally have no tutorials at all
japan invented the trope of in-game characters very slowly explaining every game mechanic in dialogue boxes which is what they're probably complaining about it

>>382641449
literally retarded

>>382652324

Also I hate how some Japanese games will wait to long to introduce systems. All a game's mechanics should be laid out to bear by the 1/3 mark at the latest.

>>382641228
>listening to Jonathan "games aren't meant to be fun" Blow(job)
He's a pretentious wanker, fullstop.

>>382647818
This, the open world meme needs to die.

>>382652038
>I'm a marginalized trans developer and I think you owe me reparations for having slain me this morn

Comedy genius.

>>382652383
I don't think he knew that he fucked up but merely expressed an sincere opinion.

>>382652626
>those ego maniacs
>sincere

>>382641228
>Persona "5 hours of tutorials" is considered one of the best jrpgs of recent
He isn't completely wrong

>>382647818
this so much, these fucking assholes are the ones to blame for the homogenization of vidya

>>382641228
Why am I getting John K. vibes from him?

>>382652626
there's ways and way to deliver a message but he's being a dick for no reason to the poor guy
he's an asshole, and proof of that is that he had to quit because everyone knew he was a bullshitter

>>382642779
Oh look, the tripfag is making up bullshit. Big surprise.

Thank god for filters.

>>382652426
I genuinely don't remember tutorials even being a thing until Gen 5 consoles became a thing.

Even then, they only became a thing because the controllers introduced in the 5th Gen were WAY more advanced than anything you'd find on older consoles, so it made perfect sense for tutorials to start becoming a thing as games started moving on to 3D, where you had to account for 7+ buttons that may or may not have their own unique functions depending on the game.

>>382641228
>Super Meat Boy treats you like an idiot
Is this bait?

>>382641449
>made witness
>can't figure out BASIC physics puzzles

>>382651695
Who in the world other than the guy in question would care enough to make this? Pathetic.

>>382652862
Please don't insult John K like that.

>>382653015
>Even then, they only became a thing because the controllers introduced in the 5th Gen were WAY more advanced than anything you'd find on older consoles
they became a thing because japanese people are trained to be stupid and not think outside the box so everything new needs to be explained to them in meticulous detail

>>382652862
Because they both got lucky once and took it to mean that they're the experts of their craft and everyone should feel GRATEFUL for being deigned by their presence like the miserable peons that they are.

Then once everyone starts to turn on them for their ego, they go into a self-destructive spiral, shit out a bunch of shit that nobody cares about, and fade into obscurity as bigger and better talent starts to move into their territory.

>>382652937
Yeah, he is a fucking asshole.

>>382652152
It was at the very beginning. This was one of the first moments to realize just how shitty of people the social justice crew is.

>>382653753
Don't pretend like that's an eastern or western exclusive issue, there are retards everywhere.

>>382654178
>2015
>gamergate was 2014
>anita was long before that
I think not

>>382654242
it is an eastern exclusive issue actually, asians have a collectivist mindset which discourages creative thought. It's not even related to individual intelligence

>>382654242
No but you see Japanese people go to school 14 hours a day to be taught how to be robots and thus they lose their creativity; that's how I emotionally cope with the fact that their population has a higher average IQ than whites.

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>>382641228
So he has fetal alcohol syndrome, right?>>382641449

>>382641228
Fish is predictably a flaming cretin, Blow is right but as usual he makes a pretty simple point in an overly pretentious manner, like it's more profound than it really is.

>>382648870
glorious

>>382654328
>it is an eastern exclusive issue actually, asians have a collectivist mindset which discourages creative thought. It's not even related to individual intelligence
And westerners all lump themselves into arbitrary tribes that work more off of emotion than actual logic (see: anti-vaxxers, flat-earthers, feminists, etc.)
>>382654364
And westerners are encouraged to believe everything they hear without putting in any research into understanding how something works because the premise made them feel bad and anything that makes you feel bad is wrong, even if it's for your benefit.

So again, there are retards everywhere.

>>382641449

Damn, this sucks. I really respect Jonathan Blow as a programmer and I've read pretty much everything he's written but I guess there is a reason I never liked his actual games all that much...

>Blow has terrible opinions about vidya
>Blow has made mediocre to okay vidya
>Egoraptor constantly cites Blow as source for knowledge on game design
>Ego is shit at vidya
>Ego has shit opinions on games

We need to stop taking advice on video games from people who suck at them.

>>382654615
>And westerners all lump themselves into arbitrary tribes that work more off of emotion than actual logic
you think I'm comparing cultures in some sort of shit-flinging contest? Pointing out something bad about a culture doesn't mean you hate them or you're trying to say they're better or worse (and your comparison is shitty in this case cause tribalism is everywhere and having uniformed opinions is more american than entirely western)

>>382654807
This

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The secret is to avoid any games that aren't purely about fun, interesting gameplay. If it's retarded trash that tries pushing a 2deep5u narrative, or speaks in pretentious hipster metaphors, or goes full David Cage and shoves in cutscenes left and right, you know the game is gonna be bad. For example:

>Gradius, Mario, Pac-man
>fun videogamey products, well worth it

>Xenoblade, Final Fantasy, SMT, Persona
>retarded cinematic david cage movies, not even worth the discs and carts they're printed on

>Fez, Undertale, Braid
>pretentious hokey indie western games, designed to be "deep" and "lore-drive" instead of having good gameplay

See the divide here?

>>382641228
Fish was a idiot on purpose on this but Jonathan Blow got it on point. Dark Souls was great because it broke with every convention established in the last 15 to 20 years of gaming history. Modern japanese games are trash, just as western games but the west seems to catch up.

>>382655048
>implying a person who can't pass BOTW tutorial played Dark Souls

>>382641449
this actually gives great insight to the people who bash this game
they made up their mind that this game is bad before they even play it

>>382654846
The point that I'm trying to make is that there are reasons on both sides that necessitated the advent of tutorials, even if the cultures are distinct in some way.

Easterners added tutorials because their culture encourages people to all be the same, while westerners added tutorials because general audiences are too lazy/stupid to put in the work to figuring out how things work while blaming the game for their inability to detect subtlety in the game's design.

Both cultures are shit for their own reasons and neither one is responsible for shitty tutorials, it's just a consequence of the industry as a whole.

>>382655195
tutorials aren't bad
excessive tutorials are
japanese games have excessive tutorials for that reason
western games generally haven't had a problem with them
at least from a westerners perspective, maybe japanese people enjoy long tutorials

>>382641752
>Ed "you can enjoy my steak ssslooooowlyyy" mund
>not a moron
Pick one, reddit-kun.

>>382641228
Looks like he has a lot of experience being an idiot.

>>382655419
edmund was genuinely intelligent in 2, 3 and 4

I will agree that 1 was a moron though

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>>382641449
>4 hours
oh hell no
10 minute or less version?

>>382641228
He's right, but for the wrong reasons.

>>382655195
>Easterners added tutorials because their culture encourages people to all be the same
This doesn't even make sense.

>>382655628
there are 4 edmunds?

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>>382655654
Skip through the video retard.

>>382644753

Amen, if there's one thing Western devs destroy Japanese devs at, it's their UI. Western devs can convey all the same information, but still have that minimalist look that keeps your screen from looking cluttered.

>>382655705
there are more if you count the non-series stuff

>>382649261
t. jonathan blow

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>>382655758
lol

>>382655402
Western games have excessive tutorials too.

Every time you fucking encounter anything in most western games, you get a little prompt that reads "press X to do Y" even though you've done the exact same fucking shit over and over and over again throughout the game.

Or it does shit like "Mission: Kill the Enemy," like no fucking shit I'm supposed to kill the enemy, what else am I going to fucking do, bake a cake and invite them to a birthday party?

Or worse, it has those stupid screens where it shows you what each button does on the controller, regardless of how long you've actually played the fucking game.

And the worse part, you NEED to include this shit otherwise the average consumer wouldn't be able to progress through the game.

>>382655874
Just a reminder that a parody screenshot made in 2011 looked better than this game.

Yeah Japanese need to upgrade their technology so nobody will be able to play their games because bitcoincucks are buying out all the fucking GPUs

ctrl + f "fat fuck"

both jon blow and phish are pretty reasonable in that video. the one piece of shit was the fat fuck that started laughing at the jap man like a total sadistic retard.

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>>382654927
>Comparing arcade games to RPG's.

>>382641228
What games actually have overly long tutorial sections? All I can really think of is Kingdom Hearts II.

>>382655898
having a single prompt tutorial is better than an entire cutscene with a demonstration, which I've seen in more japanese games than I can count

>>382648686

>That started a huge indie wave

So we can credit this filthy snail for ruining the industry? According to you, he is the reason Undertale made it to the industry.

>>382641228
>Jonathan Blow
Who?

>>382655696
That was the other guy's premise so take your issues up with him.

>>382655654
Johnathan blow being a clueless retard
There you go

There isnt a single western game that is better than a japanese counterpart
Id agree MAYBE woth TPS games if re4 and vanquish did not exist

>>382641361
This. I just want to have fun.

>>382656229
but japanese people make different genres of games than western people
you can't even compare wrpgs to jrpgs

>>382656229
and lost planet
and EDF 4.1
etc etc

I don't remember a good western TPS game except MDK1 or Max Payne

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>>382655750
i just can't anymore

>>382656345
>you can't even compare wrpgs to jrpgs
tell that to wrpg autists who refused to categorize souls games as JRPG

>>382656438
but they're not jrpgs they're action games

>>382656039
At least when they introduce a tutorial, it's to show you what a new ability does rather than just being there because they're afraid that the audience are too dumb to remember a ubiquitous skill that they've used throughout the fucking game.

>>382641752
Yeah, he seems out of place there. He's le steak meme man too, but that's just a different type of flaw and he honestly probably regrets it or laughs about it.
He's really not the same as those other faggots, though. He would never just blanketly shit on Jap games and hates the fuck out of politics and "social" shit as was apparent in one video rant, while fags like Phil Fish cling to it.
People just clump him in because of his appearance and that shitty Indie Game movie which he probably ended up hating and regretting.

>>382656528
arpg

>>382656345
Its diferent but in the same genre

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>>382656026
I guess you're right. I shouldn't be comparing games to movies.

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>>382641449
>mfw watching him do magnesis trial
>it literally took him over a minute to figure out to use magnesis on the metal fucking doors
This fucking idiot made The Witness, really?

>>382658632
and then he complains that the game is patronizing him because it played the sound when it was too easy

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>>382641228
1. That wasn't Jonathan Blow talking, that was Phil Fish

2. Can Phil Fish be any more unlikable of a human being?

>>382652354
Yep. Castle Crashers was also actually a fun game.

>>382641752
fuck outta here, super meat boy was a shit instakilla platformer. and isaac was cool until this indie faggot resold the same game about 4 fucking times with minimal changes

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>>382641228
That was sad. I feel empathy for that poor little freelance japanese man.. I hope his feelings weren't hurt

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>>382659092
>super meat boy was a shit instakilla platformer

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>>382641228
To Jonathan Blow,

Name 1 japanese game that you have to "sit down and click 700 little boxes that tell you how to do everything" And also describe how this is different from Western games that have a waypoint system and a giant yellow arrow on screen telling you exactly where to go in an "epic cinematic open-world experience with space marine zombies"

Why does this fuck act like Western games are much better?

>>382641228
Wow what a bunch of fucking assholes

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>>382659092
>resold
The only time Isaac was "resold" was rebirth which was an fucking ASTRONOMICALLY improved version of the game. The rest of the new content was just DLC, Afterbirth+ was overpriced though.
>>382659483
this, I have no clue what he's fucking talking about. Western games are absolutely notorious for overly handholdy tutorials, I can't even think of any jap game I've ever played that has that problem but it's hard to think of a AAA western one that doesn't.

>>382641228
It was pretty true at the time, Nintendo especially, but so did most AAA western games. It's still an exaggerated generalization though to say it in a way that all japanese games treat you like an idiot.

>>382659302
>that cuck going HAHAHA LOOK AT HIS FACE LOOK WHAT YOU DID
christ why are game devs so fucking unprofessional?

>>382660065
>pretending to be inhuman is an admirable trait

>>382652038
>>382641228
Some more reasons why your incest island aka USA/CAN should be nuked forever.
The world would be so much better without you arrogant retards. No one likes you degenerates.

>>382660209
it's not "pretending to be inhuman" to not laugh in the face of someone who came to your panel and asked a genuine question like a bunch of grade schoolers.

>>382659986
>I can't even think of any jap game I've ever played that has that problem
I just quit playing advance wars because I spent 15 minutes in menus while the game told me move a unit

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>>382641449

>>382660390
he's not laughing at the person who asked the question he's laughing because it's an awkward situation you maladjusted retard

>>382660209
>You can only only either act like a child or like a robot.
No wonder nerds are such horrible people.

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>>382641449
why

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>>382641449
The Witness is genuinely a great piece of game design, and I'm surprised to see that he's such a dumbass.

>>382659986
Sure it runs better than the shitty flash version but now there just tons of shit items, all this dlc was to milk the audience

>>382642716
Grand theft auto 3 - IV, Red Dead Redemption, Fallout: New Vegas, Shadow of Mordor, Borderlands, Burnout Paradise, Stalker, Dwarf Fortress.

Need any more? I could keep going all day.

>>382659986
>I can't even think of any jap game I've ever played that has that problem
Pretty much every Nintendo game up until last year.
It was especially really bad in the 2000s and early 2010s.
>Skyward Sword
>Twilight Princess
>Every Pokemon
>Dream Team. Holy shit Dream Team.

>>382660510
>this ugly motherfucker who doesn't know what the fuck he's claiming but claims it anyways and reddit eats it u p

I actually enjoyed Fez and Braid, but Jesus Christ, their developers are retarded.

>>382660818
I'm not sure I'd really view it as a game, because I don't think a puzzle is a game and a collection of puzzles wouldn't be either.

>>382660919
You know, you're right. Sun and Moon had that problem so fucking bad, I don't know how I forgot. I genuinely think that S&M kek is the worst gen by far.

>>382660316
>Some more reasons why your incest island aka USA/CAN should be nuked forever.
Phil Fish is Quebec. Don't lump him in with us

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>>382641449

How do we end the starbucks curse hubris placed upon the world?

How many hipsters are required for the blood sacrifice to appease the old gods and grant us Good Games again?

>>382661324
Good games are still being released to this day, it's just that /v/ doesn't talk about them.

>>382659302
>>382660065
> be aspiring game developer
> shun the use of pre-fab engines and learn to code by hand
> script libraries are in English
> not only a different language than your native tounge, but a different character set entirely
> give up countless times
> it's too difficult
> watch Indie Movie
> see that it IS possible
> continue on
> discover your Indie Dev heroes are appearing at a dev panel
> you're shy and awkward
> the only Enlish you know you learned from teaching yourself code or Google Translate
> you get a chance to ask a question
> there is a camera
> "I-i am from a different country... "
> [long pause as you try to translate words]
> "One that cares about our medium very deeply."
> [Another long pause to catch train of thought]
> You hear a cross between giggling and ridicule "geez, can't this Jap just spit it out already?"
> The camera is still rolling
> "What... what. What has my country. Done... to. Inspire. You?"
> The hipster panel look at eachother like your entire existance us ine big in-joke."
> Your hero speaks.
> "Look, Yoshi. Your country is shit. Maybe they were relevent 10-15 years ago, but let's be honest, you haven't done shit, and basically your shit sucks."
> fat lesbian snickers at you
> condesending bald man jumps in
> "Look, Yoshi. Maybe my friend was too harsh on you. What he meant to say was your country sucks. I hate your games and basically you make games for children. If I can give you one piece of advice it's shit up. Give up. Is this thing recording."
> camera is still recording
> "Where was I? Oh yeah, your country sucks. Maybe it's your interface, or your character design or your mechanics. It just sucks. You suck too. I hope you got this on tape."
> you come home. You delete your code. You shut off your computer. You go to sleep.
> the next morning you work for your dad's insurance company.
> you process claim documents for 12 hours until he dies
> you inherit his position
> eventually you die as well

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>>382661506

>>382648538
As a Canadian, I agree.

>>382641449
L O L

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>>382661506
grorious nipponese man can rest easy knowing that his country is the superior developers. The only person at that panel that's still relevant at all is Edmund and he's the least dickheaded and his games are the most fun and least pretentious. Meanwhile Breath of the Wild and Souls are dominating.

>>382662160
Edmund is a huge cunt

>>382662016
as someone who lived in Canada I agree

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>>382641449
>Wants to drop a weapon
>Can't figure out how to press select while in the menu
>Attempts to break a branch by hitting it on a rock
>Misses the fucking rock and complains he can't break it
Is this the average video game player?

>>382662414
edmund is nowhere near as bad as Blow or Fish and his games are actually good and focus on fun. Edmund's only major spergout was muh steak and that wasn't THAT bad, I understand where he was coming from but he handled it like a retard.

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>>382661506

>>382662414
>>382662414
How so?

>>382661491

True, and they pop up here and there.

But you ain't gonna be seeing them from cucks like them, and the triple-A's seem to be drinking from the same kool-aid passed around their clique circles nowadays, unfortunately.

There's still hope in the indie scene elsewhere.

>>382661506

I like to think he realized he was asking a bunch of trust-fund hypocrites who are incapable of holding a meaningful job on the professional side of the industry.

Burn that anger as fuel for you journey, dev-kun.

>>382662541
>his games are actually good
>/v/ is now shilling for flash garbage
You guys never cease to amaze me.

>>382662565
Releasing the same game 5 times

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>>382662485
Watch your parents try to play a 3d game.
He's pretending to be retarded because a Japanese made a better open world game than his.

>>382662651
>le 2D games are all flash games meme
kill yourself

>>382662649
>trust-fund hypocrites
fish and blow used to work in the game industry and edmund is used to work normal jobs

>>382662693
>original + rebirth = 5 times?

>>382662541
First off meat boy is not a good game, secondly it didn't even work when it was released and Edmund had a huge internet meltdown about it and thirdly Edmund is the ARTIST behind these projects, he has no real right to bitch or act as though he was valuable in most of the games he was a part of because majority of the time he was the ARTIST and not the designer or the programmer.

>>382662908
this

>>382662908
What the hell are you talking about? Both Meat Boy games worked fine.

>>382641449
I haven't played any zelda games, I'm not really a fan of most nintendo games and I've never owned a nintendo console but it's clear this guy made his mind up about the game before he even picked up the controller.

The way he's so negative and snarky even in the first 10 minutes just shows he hated the game before he played it. Whining over such small things like how the tree branch auto-equipped but the clothes didn't, the fucking UI, moaning about eating during combat, complaining about the fucking map.

There's no way you can take this guy seriously, he's just so negative and whiny throughout the entire game.

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>>382641449
>1:12:15
>OH LOOK IT'S THE ZELDA "YOU FOUND A SECRET" MUSIC, IT'S WHEN YOU KNOW YOU'VE FOUND A SECRET
>YOU'VE FOUND A SECRET
>A SECRET
2 FUCKING HUGE ASS METAL PLATFORMS IN THE CENTER OF THE FUCKING ROOM AND HE CALLS IT A SECRET I FUCKING SWEAR I'LL SHIT ON A PIECE OF PAPER WITH HIS FACE AND PHOTOS OF HIS FUCKING HORRIBLE GAMES AND SEND HIM THE VIDEO

>>382663624
>le angry gamer meme

>>382663483
>Whining over such small things like how the tree branch auto-equipped but the clothes didn't, the fucking UI, moaning about eating during combat
this is such a retarded nitpick and if he thought for ten second s before speaking he'd have realized that it's obviously because you are constantly cycling through different weapons and many times your only weapon can break and you have to grab one off the ground mid combat but armor never breaks.

>>382652038
It's always hilarious when people don't believe that there is such a thing as a professional victim, when you have people like this swearing and abusing notch then asking for money.

>>382641228
>see cunts like this who are "game devs"
>still suck with your ideas and are too lazy or busy to make yours

fuck them, it´s my turn now.

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>>382663624
stop mistreating LGBTQ+ people

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>>382663624
done

why are nintendo fans so butthurt and defensive?

>>382662693
Okay?

If people are willing to buy it 5 times in a row then I'm not going to fault him for releasing updated rereleases and shit.

I mean, Cave Story got released like 4-5 times too but I'm not going to call Pixel a cunt just because people want to buy his game so many times.

>>382664513

isn't phil fish a massive zelda fan? also he had a hysterical attack when someone called fez a mario paper copy

>>382664513
Because Super Meat Boy, Fez, and Braid are better than any Mario game in the last couple decades

>>382641449
You know how people on /v/ sometimes joke that they like to complain about video games more than they play them these days?

Well, at least people on /v/ play video games. The people who make the fucking things these days obviously don't.

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>>382664707
the sad thing is that there are people browsing /v/ in 2017 that think this is true

>>382641228

That's not a quote from Jon Blow. He may blow, but that's not from him.

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>>382664887
OP here
I have updated the pic to include Blow's quote.

>>382664983
a japanese game probably raped him as a child

>>382641449
>that view in the background
so where does he live /v/?

>>382665354
bay area desu

>>382665354
San Francisco, near Harvey's Milk residence

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STOP PLAYING JAPANESE GAMES RIGHT NOW

>>382641228
I don't know why you guys even shit on Blow that much. Phil was the faggot who was being smug here, Blow only said the truth (Jap games did treat you like a retatd back then, and still kind of do).

>>382641228

The Western "devs" need to shut up and make better games. This is jealousy talking. Japanese games are in general just better. I can't remember the last time the West made anything spectular. Mass Effect is ruined, Dragon Age as well, what else is there? Call of Duty? Fuck outta here. Horizon Zero Dawn? Sure. Decent game. Not spectacular but decent. Does Witcher 3 count as West? Sure. That one is phenomenal.

The Japanese devs just provide a broad spectrum of compelling games. Hell, even their porn games are compelling and have decent gameplay sometimes. This guy needs to take off the blinds and look at what the Japs are doing right.

>>382665963
>This is jealousy talking
this is projection talking

>>382665963
You do know that they said this things years ago, right, newfried? From the last gen, not the current one.

>>382665917
Troglodyte looking fuck (⋅⃘˕̭⋅⃘)

>>382643354
This

>>382665958
Its a case of the pot calling the kettle black.

>>382665963
To be fair, the last game Johnathan Blow made was The Witness, which is one of the coolest games I've played in years. /v/ hates it solely because Johnathan Blow made it.

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>>382641752
He didn't actually make the games, Tommy Refenes did all the work.

>>382665958
Because anyone sitting on that panel who didn't call out Phil Fish for being a fucking faggot nigger is in the wrong. If you're on that panel and someone is a giant fucking asshole to a polite man then you need to speak up and call that person a giant fucking asshole and apologize for his shit behavior.

The fact that he didn't do that, but instead he smirked, laughed, smiled, and then expounded upon phil fish's opinion is an endorsement of phil fish's opinion which makes him just as much of a fucking asshole.

>>382648864
Thinking little boys in swimsuits are sexual makes you the pedo, not the world.

>>382665958
i never played a japanese game that forced you for hours of tutorial like he is saying in the vid
Zelda games having tutorials is understandable since the audience for those games are anywhere from 6 year old kids to 50 year pedos

Also have manual, tutorials and dialog is never bad. The good thing is that you can always choose to skip a tutorial or not

A recent game I played called Malicious Fallen is so simple but at the same time you really have to go through at least first 3 tutorials otherwise you would never find out how to use release the magic

What game in 2010~2014 had long tutorials which you couldn't skip? The only one I can think of is Lost Odyssey but I bet he never played it

>>382642518
Sure, that's why the non-linear "Metroidvania" subgenre comes from JAPANESE games, right? That's why the best open world game is JAPANESE, right? It's not like there's any Western open world game worth playing anyway considering they are all empty or constrained, dull, repetitive and buggy. Yes, Japanese games are so lame and linear compared to Western bestselling masterpieces like Call of Duty.

>>382666428
>That's why the best open world game is JAPANESE, right?
what?

>>382642518
>here is no subtlety in Japanese writing.


Japanese game paved the pah of filling in the blanks story telling. that's why there's so many fanfics.

>>382666615
>MARX FACTORY
>subtle nip writing

>>382642518

I'd take Japanese writing, subtle or not subtle, over Western SJW pandering writing any day. "HELLO PERSON I JUST MET 5 SECONDS AGO I AM TRANSGENDER AND HAVE COME TO LIVE MY NEW LIFE HERE. DID YOU KNOW I AM TRANSGENDER AND IT'S PERFECTLY ACCEPTABLE AND MAKES ME HAPPY?"

>>382666225
What the fuck is this?

>>382644406
>This dude sucks.
No.
He Blows.

>>382641449
Why do these pieces of shit become rich? How? What is wrong with this world?

Honest question
do you guys seriously believe that a person who can't play Breath of the Wild has ever played Resonance of Fate or Dark Souls?

>>382664983
Thanks saved for the next thread the second this one goes down.

>>382646430
Wasn't that contest rigged in his favor? I thought he was going to jail over it.

>Americuck being a faggot against outsiders
nothing new here

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ufPAD7xdFBk is still just as relevant

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>>382641228
He's literally Arin Hanson

>>382666892
Because they're actually creating something while you're here whining about their fame you fucking inbred piece of shit LMAO

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>>382666329
Giving constructive criticism after some idiot at a panel says something dumb is not necessarily an endorsement of that person's opinion; he even said that Phil Fish was being too harsh, but instead of being a downright rude and areogant hipster he gave the dude his opinion in a pretty nice manner.
And even then, that place is not a hugbox or a safe-space. What that faggot said was still out of line and completely unecessary, but you're acting like a college campus extreme progressive here.
>>382666384
Lost Odyssey is a pretty bad case, but Tales of games also have tutorials that are at least 30-40-mins long, and are just awkwardly put in the game. Catherine had a somewhat long tutorial, but that was 100% necessary from a dev standpoint.

Persona and some SMT games are another example, but we only got ports and IV back then.

>>382666753
Ed on game development.

>>382642518
>>382642716
You people are fucking dumb. Non linearity doesn't mean "the main story can be completed without any pressure, here's some meaningless side-quests that have ZERO effect on the plot thread"

>>382643354
>Elder Scrolls
Not non-linear. You are still required to complete a specific and HIGHLY linear number of main objectives to complete the game without abusing glitches.
>>382660901
>Grand theft auto 3 - IV
required to complete a specific and HIGHLY linear number of main objectives to complete the game
>Fallout: New Vegas
This is a decent, if lazy example of non-linearity where the main plot forks temporarily, but it all boils down to the same fucking objectives in the same fucking order.
>Shadow of Mordor
required to complete a specific and HIGHLY linear number of main objectives to complete the game
>Borderlands
required to complete a specific and HIGHLY linear number of main objectives to complete the game
>Stalker
required to complete a specific and HIGHLY linear number of main objectives to complete the game
>Dwarf Fortress
Does not have an objective, so it's not actually a game. It's a simulator. A victory condition is required for a game.

The only western game to even ATTEMPT to be truly non-linear was Witcher 2, where a major choice decided which version of Act 2 you'd play, and many optional quests had effects on the main plot thread, and actively gated off a quarter or more of the game to players who chose one or the other choice.

It was ambitious as hell.

>>382667036
why would anyone go to jail over a rigged award

>>382667169
>Does not have an objective, so it's not actually a game. It's a simulator. A victory condition is required for a game.
hello yes i am autistic as hell too

>>382641228
>Was he right /v/?
Not when every damn western game comes with 2 hour tutorials, highlighted areas you use items/abilities, button prompts, and QTEs.

>>382666718
Can I get an example of that from 3 games?

File: 1483715328059.jpg (6KB, 245x245px) Image search: [Google]

6KB, 245x245px

>>382665963
>Horizon Zero Dawn? Sure. Decent game.

>>382667110
I've played Zestiria, Berseria and Phantasia and I don't remember 30 min tutorials
Mostly is JRPGs. In the video he was talking about exploration games and he is trying to say "every'' japanese game has long tutorials

>>382667165
Delete this

>>382667169
you don't understand what non-linear means in the context of game design