It's over SMT bros, Persona won.

>>382599226
this is hardly a Persona game though, you can kill all your friends and it can be argued it was better for the universe over all

>IVA was Persona power of friendship shit
>P5 was a real SMT game

What did Atlus mean by this?

>>382600735
>P5 is real SMT game
how exactly? power of friendships till prevails

>>382600980

It's not friendship, it's "Cooperation"

Fitting with it being a chaosfag game.

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>>382600735
>He didn't kill his friends like a good boyo.
You only have your self to blame, kid.

SMT at least has a chance to become a good series on the horizon. Which is to say that it'll be out sometime after the first wave of P5 spinoffs and the rerelease.

>>382601446
>SMT at least has a chance to become a good series on the horizon.
SMT Switch is going to be the third game that proves SMT devs forgot how to make dungeons.

>>382601185

I kinda feel like that end is canon.

I mean, Bonds Flynn reunites with his friends and gets his happy ending instead of being your fuccboi mindslave, but at the same time everything feels fake in a way I can't describe.

That being said, Dagda and Danu are too extremes I wouldn't like to follow, if there was another ending outside of the Law/Chaos fancy gameovers, I probably would have picked that.

>>382601697
>but at the same time everything feels fake in a way I can't describe
It just feels very forced in Dagda's route it felt natural to go after YHVH next.
In danu's route however you defeated the law and chaos faction, stopped Krishna and saved Flynn and Asahi.
There was never really a reason to go after YHVH after that.
Steven just kinda hijacked your dream and said "YHVH is kinda dick you should kill him" and everyone just goes "Yeah sure why not?" which felt extremely forced.
Also I never felt like that neither Danu or Dagda was too extreme, I mean your friends were the people who raised their weapons at you.
I am not sure what you think what would be a good middleground.
There is a limit to how much of a neutralfag you can be.

>>382603063

I don't want to destroy the world like Dagda, but Danu's viewpoints really piss me off, especially after she replaced Dagda with a neutered version of himself for not following her.

>>382603473
The world that Nanashi made looked a lot nicer than fucked up Tokyo

No doubt. It's clear Atlus wanted to modernize so SMT would sell. So the game sits between SMT and Persona; your conflict is even centered on your relationship with others rather than ideological differences.
>>382601697
>at the same time everything feels fake in a way I can't describe
Very happy, shonen-esque, doesn't feel you've sacrificed anything to earn it in the same sense you did in other games. Massacre was more in line with Law and Chaos (before they were belittled, that is) with its high cost/high reward. What does it cost you to be friendly in 4A? Nothing much, which hurt the other path because only at the last choice do you get to really get to understand edgy skeleton had a good point but it would make no sense for you to side with him at that point, which is why you get punished.

Though it's funny both routes are basically extremes of something.

>>382600735
You never played any of these games and only watched playthroughs on youtube, or just went with word of mouth
IVA had obnxious writing but the gameplay is one of the most refined of the whole SMT series, and differently from persona, playing the game is what you do 90% of the time.
There's also no focus on character development in IVA compared to Persona, characters in all numbered smt games are extremely basic, they just gave them a lot more dialogue in IV and IVA for whatever stupid reason compared to 1, 2 and 3, but still they never evolve from being rapresentatives from their respective routes, while Persona games usually have a smaller cast of characters that learns some kind of lesson and changes its way through the course of the game. IVA also follows a post apocalyptic setting in a land dominated by gods and demons like every other SMT game, while Persona 5 is set in a world that is similar to the real one but with the presence of shadows and persona as occult/hidden knowledge
But yeah MUH WAIFUS XD let's all roleplay as angry videogame nerds when we barely know anything about the franchise we are angry about, that'll make me feel so good and smart and cool when I post on an anonymous website

>>382606703

You're the one who didn't finish P5 if you don't understand why I called it a real SMT.

>>382606986
I finished every game in the franchise that was ever translated to english. Persona 5 plays nothing like a SMT game and its setting is nothing like a SMT game. I bet you also think that SMT is the name of the overall franchise instead of just the flagship series because of the fucking awful western marketing.
While I thought the ending twists of Persona 5 were neat (even though the writing itself I thought was a bit bloated at times) SMT games were barely about writing and storyline in the first place, if you're just referring to the fact that you fight yaldabaoth using helel at the end, in Persona 4 you fight Izanami which is one of the main deities in the plot of the very first digital devil story novel, I wouldn't call it a digital devil story spiritual sequel though. Numbetrd SMT and Persona 5 are different in gameplay, party building, no alignement system, setting (post apocalyptic vs modern day), story focus (numbered SMT games are more about environmental storytelling & moral decisions while Persona games are all about the plot & characters and it has been this way since the psx era when Persona was born), amount of story vs gameplay, art direction and character design, but you have probably been bamboozled by this meme that SMT was always about dark and mature storylines when really, before smt4 they barely had a plot outside of the initial premise and the characters were always basic and meant to rapresent an ideal, so you thought persona 5 had a dark and mature storyline and thus it is a "true smt"
>inb4 LOL look at this nerd actually caring and playing videogames instead of watching youtube summaries like us cool kids do xD
I just actually do what you retards pretend to do all day

>>382608165

Izanami didn't take over Tokyo and summon the angels.

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>>382601697
>smt
>canon
Dumb personachad

>>382608743

Neutral endings are canon 98% of the time.

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>>382609113
>canon

>>382608410
So the final corridor of the game is the one thing that truly matters in 100 hours of gameplay, and makes it the same as a different series that plays in a slightly similar way but is different in every other?
You fight angels multiple times through the Persona series; plus, Persona 5 is actually about the mindscape dimension / collective unconcious, not an actual post apocalyptic society. Tokyo is completely fine after you defeat the big bad. The angels appear because they stand for a rigid order in the collective unconcious, not because they are the tetragrammaton's servants/soldiers as in SMT.
What's funnier is that in other Persona games, you actually fight demons that appear in the mainline series as final bosses (Nyarlathotep, Nyx, Izanami), when Yaldabaoth was never seen in any other game before this one, so technically each of them could be called a "true smt game" if you draw conclusions out of your ass instead of comparing actual gameplay, story focus, setting, characters, music direction, art direction, game balance, party building dynamics, dungeon navigation, dungeon design etc. which are all different
>>382609113
There's no real canon, smt3 nocturne maniax implies that every ending and every game happen in a multiverse, though there are connections like smt2 picking up after smt1's neutral ending or Persona 1 picking up after SMTIf...'s female route, the other routes still happened, they just didn't go anywhere

>>382609409
>You fight angels multiple times through the Persona series

Where?

>Persona 5 is actually about the mindscape dimension / collective unconcious, not an actual post apocalyptic society

That's the point, it's a post apocalyptic on metaphorical scale. The ending was just beating you over the head with it.

>Apocalypse writers just want to make Persona games

God fucking damn it
Kaneko wouldn't have stood for this, it's all Doi's fault

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>all these secondaries

>>382610092
>Implying the fourth best MegaTen franchise has anything to be cocky about

SMT > Persona > Mainline/KMT > Devil Survivor > DemiKids > Jack Bros

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>>382608743
You can argue all you like but>>382609113 is right
>inb4 muh quantum multiverse, muh stephen
Yeah, all those games about all those fancy possible timelines didn't happen, you only get one game about one timeline and that is the canon, deal with it.
>>382610092
>DeSufag calling anyone else secondary

>>382609694
So explain to me how having a metaphorical apocalypse and the angels appear makes persona 5 the same as an SMT game when:
- Completely different approach to storytelling (SMT games have minimalistic plot and characters and focus on mood & environmental storytelling, while persona games are more focused on plot, characters and character development and Persona 5 follows this format. SMT games also have significantly less dialogue and story time compared to Persona 5.)
- Completely different setting (post apocalyptic with demons running rampant vs modern day earth where the occult remained occult)
- Different gameplay (they both use versions of the press turn battle system, but set up in a different way. In SMT you are constantly recruiting and creating new party members, while Persona just gives them to you through story events and you can swap them out, plus you can create a persona for the protagonist only through fusion instead of the whole party; resistances and weakness are due to the persona while they are related to the equipment in SMT; Dungeons are designed differently as they are meant to be completed through multiple sessions and they give you fast travel, and you access them through story events in Persona 5 instead of a world map like you do in SMT. SMT also has no social link elements and thus fusion works differently and has different priorities)
- different art direction and music direction
Can you explain to me how the final corridor of the game overrides all of this and makes Persona 5 a true SMT and SMT IVA a gay persona game, even though Persona 5 looks, feels and plays like a Persona game, and SMT IVA looks, feels and plays like a SMT game that just happens to have awful dialogue? (Which again, I think the real problem is more about these games having too much dialogue in the first place, SMT characters were always bland)
>inb4 IVA raped my childhood because of no law/neutral/chaos alignement
it happened before (smt3)

>>382609409
You seem like a retard that got meme'd into thinking formatting is reddit spacing, no one wants to read that wall of text nigger

>>382609694
P1 and P2

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>>382610203
>Implying the fourth best MegaTen franchise has anything to be cocky about
It sure does kid, it sure does. DeSu, in every sense, captures the essence of MegaTen. It's what every other megaten game wants to be; even SMT wants to be a DeSu.
>Persona above Desu
heh
>>382610331
SJ babby get out

>>382610837
I wish one day to be as cool as you

>>382610871

Literally who?

Why does Persona's combat suck so much?

I've been playing P5 after finishing SMT Nocturne, and I already miss the press turn battle system and a fully customisable party.

>>382611212
Nice

>>382601142
>chaos
>cooperation

I'm sorry, are we talking about the same alignment?

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>>382610970
>DeSufag calling anyone else babby
Comedy gold

>>382610203
SMT/Kyuuyaku > Devil Summoner > Persona > Devil Survivor > Majin Tensei > Devil Children > Jack Bros > Garbage > Last Bible
personal rankings in terms of overall enjoyment

>>382610802

P5 was a SMT game as seen through a Persona lens.

The end of the world was metaphorical, because Persona is about the mind.

SMT IVA was a Persona game through a SMT lens.

The world has ended, you need to come together with your friends to fix it, as long as you trust in your friends, they can overcome any difference in opinion, and no one has to die.

The ending where you betray them is a statement against SMT's usual endings, you stuck with them forever, but now they suddenly hate you because of your beliefs, and is harder because you don't have your friends to back you up, Flynn's story never gets a conclusion, and you're left with a butchered ending.

>>382599226
Define won. SMT paved the way for Persona. But it's clear that Atlus doesn't have to appeal to fucking angsty teen chimps anymore by the sales of the mainline SMT games. In fact, Persona 5 takes a lot from mainline SMT games for demon recruiting. I'd say they need SMT.

>>382611483

You have the same goals and ideals, but you're not friends.

It's "Cooperation"

>>382611841
>you are not friends
>where Social Links still exist with party members

>>382611841
No, it is definitely "friendship," because they don't proceed to immediately turn and stab each other in the back as soon as they achieve their goal because "muh survival of the fittest."

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>>382611784
>SMT
>Angsty
Its mascot is a fucking white midget wearing a hat who says "hee ho" a lot

>>382611768
>you're left with a butchered ending.
But it is the best ending, fucking bondsfags I swear.

>>382611986

They aren't friends.

They're more dysfunctional and have less in common with each other than any other group in the series.

They're only together because they're outcasts.

>>382612181
>What is SEES

>>382612181
Ignoring the fact that you can always do Social Links and romance the female characters, there's P3 where they stick just to fight shadows during the Journey, and P2EP where most of them are adults that has their own reasons and meld together during the game

And what do cooperation have to do with Chaos? In SMT I, II, SJ and IV you always cooperate, either with the Law rep, the Neutral rep or the Chaos rep

>>382609113
"Canon" isn't the right word because it implies the others are apocryphal. Neutral is the main ending because it allows for possibilities. If you land in any others, the show is pretty much over.

>>382611768
you just see it that way because you heard someone call IVA Persona and you thought it sounded cool.
The conflict in IVA is not about "friendship", it's about how belief in YHWH/the tetragrammaton is what gives it power, so you either come together with the leaders of the various groups Tokyo (the only populated area of the old world) and choose to stand against him along with the will of the various people they rule over, or you go the opposite route and massacre everyone on earth so that there's noone to believe in YHWH anymore, and you create a new world. Which is why the two endings are either Peace (all the various factions make peace and create a unified society, including Mikado and Tokyo themselves) and Anarchy (everything is burned to the ground in order to be rebuilt anew).
The dialogue makes various references to friendship, but that's why the dialogue is fucking awful, it doesen't drive the point home and it just drones on over and over. Even then, the dialogue in SMTIVA reads nothing like the dialogue in Persona 1, 2, 3, 4 or 5, it just reads like awful dialogue that I found myself skipping through multiple times. But the conflict itself is not about coming together as "friends" as it is coming together as leaders of various factions in order to move on from the old order (yhwh) to the new one (humanity), it's basically a different take on the same conflict as smt2. In that regard I think the scenario writers are too blame and not the story writers, I thought the story itself was pretty interesting with all the details about how we percieve daemons and observing & believing is what gives them form, but it seems to me like whoever was writing the dialogue was on a completely different page compared to who wrote the story

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Persona will never be better until it lets you kill all your friends you spent the whole game building social links with

>>382612345

Yeah, you're probably right, I take that back.

SEES was a group of Seinfeld tier assholes.

>>382612523
>And what do cooperation have to do with Chaos?

The fact they changed the original name of S-links to it shows you they're intentionally highlighting it's not the same as the relationships of previous games.

>>382613162
So? It's different from P3 and 4 in the name yeah (aside from the fact that they are the same thing like P3 and 4 just with cool abilities to use), but there's a lot of thing that's different from P3 and 4 that's not SMT. DeSu 2's Fate for example

>>382610970
I don't think DeSu beats mainline but fuck it's good. Though only the first one. DeSu2 shit the bed and went full Persona
Also the battle system feels slow as fuck compared to other SRPGs due to its weird mashup of SRPG and JRPG mechanics. The transition and actual flow of the battles can feel much slower than they should.

>>382612728
following this I made a quick search and it turns out that the scenario writer for IVA never wrote a game before, which doesen't surprise me
http://www.mobygames.com/developer/sheet/view/developerId,437603/
while the story outline was written by Kaneko and Yamai like with SMTIV, I'm guessing Atlus just wanted to cram those games with dialogue because games with minimalistic dialogue like 1-3 are considered "archaic" now (even though they could have used the dark souls fad of the time and released their games with minimalistic dialogue too I think, but whatever) which led us to the current misconceptions, dialogue aside IV and IVA are SMT games through and through in every other aspect, but it makes sense that the dialogue feels so out of place when you consider that IVA's writer never wrote for a videogame before, let alone a megaten game

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>>382610331
Leave persona to me

>>382613962
The original devil survivor probably has the best writing in the franchise along with Persona 2, I enjoyed 2 gameplay wise but it was a severe step down in terms of writing, though I will give it props for showing a world that has someone else other than yhvh as its main deity, something that I'm pretty sure only happened in digital devil saga at that point

its all over lads! strange journey is real
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/the-north-s-e-a-l-project-science-environment/#/

>>382614725
I HATE nukiko

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>>382614815
DeSu1 was so good, usually I feel like I have to choose between the choice that sucks the least in smt, but in DeSu literally all routes (except for the obvious you fucked up route) were great.
All routes had their merits and it really actually felt like the route that you choose is the one that aligned the most with your ideology rather than choosing who you would like to fuck humanity in the ass.
Chaos was best route though.

>>382610871
>P1 and P2
The only good ones.

>>382615510
Persona 2 has some of the worst and most simplistic gameplay in the franchise though
All you guys do all day is bitch about "cinematic" games and interactive movies but all you do is judge games based on their stories, I will never understand it
I still like P2 for its story, but even vanilla P4 has better gameplay

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>>382614725
Fuck off, I bet she doesn't even love her mother

>>382615789
it's almost like there are multiple people in these threads with different opinions on certain games and game merits

>>382615789
My only qualm with P2's gameplay is the slow speed, other than that it's basically classic SMT gameplay of the era plus the tarot gimmick.

>>382615789
>/v/ is the same person maymay
Fuck off

>>382612862
>every time i see this my mind goes "you gently stroke Toki off"

>>382616182
>>382616585
not really, 90% of anyone on /v/ only cares about story, gameplay discussion is quickly shut down in most threads, yet all they do is bitch about cinematic games and how they play themselves now, don't pretend this is a fantastic board for serious discussion please, most people here barely own videogames
>>382616486
Not having a fusion system basically removes any form of strategy in the party building, all you do is farm cards over and over again
Plus it was a sequel to Persona 1 which I personally thought had the best battle system in the franchise, but as I understand it the current hivemind regarding that game on /v/ is that it's garbage

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>>382616902
>Not having a fusion system basically removes any form of strategy in the party building

>>382617174
yeah that is what I said, all you do is farm cards to get stronger personae and then grind with them to unlock their skills, meanwhile in other games you actually had to be smart about fusion and skill inheritance in order to build a strong party instead of just grinding
Though I will say I played it around 8 or 9 years ago so it may be better than I remembered it being, one day I'll probably try out the psp version since it has faster combat

>>382617550
>in other games you actually had to be smart about fusion and skill inheritance in order to build a strong party instead of just grinding
Look anon, I played all mainline titles, If..., SJ, DeSu, Persona up to 4 and the Raidou games and not once did I need to be smart about fusion or skill inheritance, which in some games like SJ is also beyond useless due to Sources being a thing.
All you need is basic math, inheritance is just a thing for minmaxers who want their very own favorite Kaneko pokemon be as good as top tiers Kaneko pokemons, most of the key skills you need are extremely common and so easily obtainable you don't really need to look at inheritance charts.

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>>382618028
>Kaneko Pokemon
>Implying that Pokemon aren't just Sugimori Demons

>>382618028
I guess I'm autistic then, what can I say. I never look at charts either unless I'm trying to 100% the compendium, I just try to play it smart with what I have.
By being smart about optimization you save up time that you otherwise have to spend on grinding, in persona 2 everything is related to grinding so there's no escaping that, you just have to do the same thing over and over to get a powerful persona with no quicker alternative
Of course every rpg system that isn't time limited can be broken, that's not a good argument to bring up about anything, I can just grind myself retarded in any jrpg ever made and then claim that the game systems they have in place are useless because I managed to finish the game anyway

Playing SMT 4 right now and while I'm enjoying it, isn't it a bit strange that Walter was against human harvesting but all for opening a portal to let demons in that would slaughter tons of humans?

>>382618621
If we want to be more precise Pokemons are Sugimori's own spin on Kawazu's monsters, which are Kawazu's demons to some extent except that Fusion is eating in SaGa and skill inheritance actually matters.
Now, if SMT's skill inheritance worked like SaGa's demon fusion would be much more interesting, and potentially broken.
>>382618979
>in persona 2 everything is related to grinding
You can beat the game by just using the base Persona though, not denying that tarot grind is a thing but it's hardly necessary, and old SMT games also had the initial MAG grind when you're not strong enough to sustain yourself, granted that MAG is irrelevant by the time you reach mid game, but it's still there.
>I can just grind myself retarded in any jrpg ever made
You wish.

>>382619727
you are right, there are a bunch of jrpgs where enemies scale with your level or where enemies stop giving exp after a certain treshold, I was just making a statement that just because you can break a game with enough grinding it doesen't mean the game mechanics themselves are useless

>>382620136
>just because you can break a game with enough grinding it doesen't mean the game mechanics themselves are useless
Well it depends on how well the game is designed really, I wouldn't say it's about grinding.
Like, take SJ for instance, why would I ever care about careful demon fusion and inheritance when Sources solve all of my problems with zero effort?
Sure, it doesn't mean I cannot actually spend time and learn all of the rules of the inheritance and fusion, nor does it mean all of those things don't exist, but the fact is Sources are infinitely more convenient.
Or take Legend of Mana, do I NEED to make golems, learn all of the intricate forging and farming rules, weapon techs or rare spawns when the game is piss easy to begin with? No, they're a really nice addition, but the game's lack of challenge makes them kinda pointless.

>>382620756
>I wouldn't say it's about grinding.
>Like, take SJ for instance, why would I ever care about careful demon fusion and inheritance when Sources solve all of my problems with zero effort?
>Sure, it doesn't mean I cannot actually spend time and learn all of the rules of the inheritance and fusion, nor does it mean all of those things don't exist, but the fact is Sources are infinitely more convenient.
Not the same guy, but demon fusion pre IV is garbage so who cares it is literal rng.
When I played Nocturne I just used the same demons for like majority of the game.
Hell I had a koppa tengu I got around the begining of the game untill like wall past halfway through the game.

>>382621383
I love how these threads always devolve into "smt was always shit and easy anyway"

>>382621383
IV:A and end-game SJ are the only time where you have to fuse for necessities and not just for fun.

>>382622105
I can agree with that, but pre IV fusion was pretty garbage.
What I am saying fusion was really not that fun so who cares if you break it with sources.

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Just on the topic of Persona.
>searching high and low for P5 steel cover in area
>lose hope, acceptance overcomes me and just buy boring normal version
>go to oz comic con
>find 3 (THREE) unopened copies of steel cover

>>382622738
Why not just order it from play asia I didn't even want the steelcover, but it seems like I accidentally bought that one when I ordered it.

>>382608165
>>382606703
>>382609409
I wonder how much autism is needed to type that long

>>382623165
>haha look at this nerd who is passionate about videogames XD let me share this on instagram
fuck off, your kind killed 4chan and online discussion in general, nowadays it's all a retarded dick measuring contest about who can type the shortest and "wittiest" comment and get the most likes/upvotes/(You)s

>>382616486
It's almost nothing like classic SMT of the era.

No fusion. Making persona is far more convoluted, grindy, and useless than recruiting demons in any SMT, which shits on the tarot gimmick in the first place. Your resources are practically infinite, where SP is probably going to be 100% full between every single battle just by walking around, with no accessories or skills involved in doing that. You have combination attacks that are utterly broken with macros that can be set to use them at the press of a button, and all they take is some of your infinite SP. Using skills automatically makes your persona stronger, which means spamming your infinite SP makes you get free levels pretty much.