SMT Apocalypse

Why would you want to betray big daddy Dagda?

>>382544597
Like I side with him, do that and then later turn around and kill him? I want his path but I hate Dagda and want to kill him

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Nope.

>>382544663
He's a dick really. He doesn't guarantee the safety of my friends in the new universe so idk what to do

>>382544672
Not really? His own plan ends with his demise, since he doesn't think that there should be ANY gods left, including himself.

>>382544705
Ok, I'm his new universe are my friends still alive? That's all I want to know. Also will they get mad if I choose Dagda?

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>wanting to betray Dagda
>ever

>>382544731
He's a much better alternative to the pack of retards you have to carry around with you for most of the game.
>>382544797
No, you kill them all on the spot when you side with Dagda. As it should be.

>>382544771
Wow what an idiot. So I'm guessing it's similar to the "nothing" ending like in smt iv?

>>382544797
Dagda's route is known as the Massacre Route.

>>382544797
>Also will they get mad if I choose Dagda?
Nah, it'll be fine.

>>382544870
Even raven haired waifu?

>Siding with xX420eDgElOrD_dAgDa420Xx

>>382544880
Ugh. We'll do I have to kill my gf?

>>382544871
Not at all. And he isn't an idiot, he's an idealogue.

Nanashi essentially becomes YHVH and creates a world where humans are neither above nor below any other form of being. Dagda believes that this is the only way to break the cycle of "greater" beings ruining the world and the lives of everyone else.

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Kill your friends boyo.

>>382545003
Depends on who your GF is. Asahi is already dead by that point.

>>382544938
Yeah, even though seconds earlier she says she'll follow you anywhere. Thots will be thots

>>382544970
This also an issue. He's kinda edgy and autistic and honestly if he was human I'd be his friend in our little retard group, so it kinda strengthens my resolve as his idealogical opponent

>>382545005
So The White?

>>382545057

We've been over this. Responsible people aren't going to just be ok with you saying FUCK YOU GOT MINE and screwing over all of reality.

Dagda is such a bro.

>>382545057
>>382545028
>>382545005
Ok ok real question. If I blow up the egg what happens?

>>382545191
>Responsible people
She's not a responsible person. She's a brainwashed killer.

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>>382545161
No The White wanted to end all existence. Dagda wants to hit a cosmic reset button.

>>382545161
Not at all. Humans get a perfect world to live in. Or Nanashi becomes a tyrant. It's down to interpretation, but it's a far cry from the nihilism of The White. Dagda is actually an optimist in this scenario, since he believes that humans are more moral than the Gods and won't fuck up this time.

>>382545161
The white ends all existence. Dagda wants a world where humans don't need gods.

>>382545294
Nanashi is a tyrant in the Dagda path technically? And my friends never come back? What about the egg?
>mfw listened to The White bc too indecisive

>>382545296
So an existence without meaning? I'd rather just stop existing.
No wonder edgy shit like Dagfa so much.

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>>382545294
See the thing about being human is we are extremely prone to failure and self sabotage. Especially when in positions of power. And a vast majority of the problems in the SMT verse are human created.

>>382545261

By that point she's defected from the Ring of Gaea and Booby Lady has been exorcized from her.

>>382545281
If I blow up the egg asahi doesn't comeback?

>>382545483
So? She's basically brainwashed to follow Nanashi by then.

>>382545460
>He needs a god to give him meaning.

>>382545460
Me too but I don't think I can choose that at this point.

>>382545460
No?

>>382545445
Dagda lets you revive one of your companions as essentially a brainwashed slave.
The same thing happens to Flynn.

>>382545593
Only 1? That's so gay. What a fag. I want all back or nothing what a load of shit. So after the "ending" I'd be playing the game with just one partner? Wow gay

>>382545474
>And a vast majority of the problems in the SMT verse are human created.

No they aren't. Even in your picture, it's thanks to outside interference. Angels indoctrinated Mikado to be subserviant and added a demon gene on purpose and everything in Tokyo is shitty because of demons. Tayama wouldn't have to abduct children and harvest their brain matter if demons didn't exist.

>>382545593
Can I do a new game + and keep them? Also which one should I choose?

>>382545575
>he wants an empty existence devoid of meaning
h-gumanity f-fuck yeah!
>>382545592
Yes? How is Dagda different from a shitty Dictator?
>Books are evil! Spirituality is the devil

>>382545460
Where did you get that? Its existence where YOU decide the meaning and humans live free without demons and monsters eating their babies not some yelllow head dick who makes you suffer for eternity if you wear clothes made from 2 different materials.

>>382545460
If meaning means being manipulated by retarded angels then I guess so.

>>382545886
If I blow up the cosmic egg what happens?

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Best Neutral rep.

>>382545836
Man you are full on retard. Go ahead and choose your shit cliche ending then.

>>382545897
What is Dagda weak to/strategies?

>>382545886
But I like big yellow and so does most of humanity. Who the fuck does Dagda thinks he is to force me to stop worshiping him? He doesn't even take responsability for his actions an fuck offs to a different plane of existence.
He is a piece of shit.

>>382545836
>How is Dagda different from a shitty Dictator?
Cause Dagda is the hills you walk on, the wind in your hair and morning dew, not an actual person capable of deciding anything? in his ending all gods revert to their original forms. before humans perceived a big loud bang and a flash of light and decided to believe it was caused by a one-eyed man with a spear, all gods were just nature

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Trust this man. He is your friend.

>>382546016
Just buff and rape like every other boss.

>>382545967

>Implying there's anything wrong with the Breakfast Club ending

YHVH isn't pissing on everyone so there's much less chance of another Divine Powers happening.

>>382546141
>kills the president
>leaves te country in chaos and becomes a fucking hill
Noice

>>382546231
Yeah because nothing bad happened to Aleph.

>>382546269
>what is Nanashi

Are you being retarded on purpose?

>>382546016

Light. Which makes you wonder how his Fedora ass was planning to step up to YHVH at all.

Ya'll need to stop being a bunch of faggy edgelords

>>382546231
What happens if I blow up the egg?

>>382546136
The one making the choices and taking responsibility for those choices and their effects is you, as per the agreement Dagda gave and explained to you.
He gave you a second chance at life, if you decide to make his dream of existence without god caused suffering and scary monsters under you bed a reality

>>382546343
A nuyhvh?

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I miss the 90s designs.

>>382546374

Steven shows up to tell you the job isn't over yet.

>>382546468
I don't, looks absolutely retarded

>>382546353
YHWH is Almighty, not Light.

Do gods have souls? They're powered by human belief so is anything left over if they're killed and people stop believing in them?

>>382546468
Same. I wish we had a revival game thats not just a one small time shit and shallow surface level imitation

>>382546498
And then what

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>>382546498
What do if I destroy the egg full ending

>>382546580

You go kill god with Flynn.

>>382546468
>>382546043
Really horny now

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>>382546760

>>382546180
Not a character in the story oddly. Would've thought I would see him in that building that housed Tenkai

>>382546043
I made her my Goddess.

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>>382546468

Nemeissa is my favourite if only because she was a fun character and gave me a new fetish.

>>382546759
Hmmmn sounds fun. I like that a lot. Idk...so I really only get one companion zombie in the Dagda path? Idk...

>>382546847
I love her design and nothing else really. Only marginally better than Hitomi

>>382546930

Yup, you keep everyone in the other. The other route gives you a full second party to fight YHVH with.

>>382546837
>Nanashi is Akira's reicarnation
>no fusable Mastema or Minotaur

>>382547006
All my friends kill YVHV with me??? Cool ok

>>382546930
Well, in the Dagda path you get to bring>

>Flynn.
>Your waifu.
>Satan.

Which is otherwise the only way to play as Satan, and he alone is as strong as an end-game boss.

>>382547104
Really weird. They should've buffed Minotaur too

>>382547130
Is there a new game plus where I can collect the rest of my part at least?

>>382545954
>tfw shed manly neutral tears after Gore's last words when you enter the Neutral route
No neutral rep will ever be as good as Gore.

>>382547104
Mastema is fuseable in the game, but not Minotaur. Mastema is also in a strange level bracket, like 72 or something.

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>>382544597
Nope. It's not possible.

But however you look at it, it's the best possible ending if your Nanashi isn't a total dick.

>>382547130
Satan can be fused in NG+ from 2 obvious demons

>>382547106

Just the one back up, the other party is Flynn,Jonathon, Walter, and Isabeau, the dudes are level 99 but Isaveau's level depends on what you got her too so get her to level 99 for consistancy.

>>382547254
Yes.

Nanashi recreates the universe, and you can decide to be better or worse than YHVW. If you choose the post-massacre friendship route, you get to pick your old friends whose memories of you are wiped out, but you can befriend them again.

You're essentially picking up their reincarnations.

>>382547254
You don't keep your party members in NG+. They just rejoin you when they would have in the original story. I can't remember if they keep their levels or not, though.

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>>382547290
No I think that was iv

>>382547148
>>382546813
>>382546043
>Monkey.

>>382547427

Honestly, you don't really get to decide whether you become better or worse YHVH, since you are already worse since your creation of universe is based on fucking massacre.

>>382546043
>>382546839
I picked navarre because I wanted a good partner for the upcoming battles

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How do I fuse YWVHAY and Shesshes?

I distinctly remember Shushes in the Wiki, and YEWHAT has like 3 different fussable forms.

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Is YHVH one of the final bosses in recent memory?

>excellent music in both phases
>hardest boss outside of DLC
>fight the Creator God by denying his divinity
>bonds route has you fight alongside Flynn, Walter, Jonathan, and Isabeau
>massacre route has you fight alongside your Godslayer and Satan

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>>382547550
It's not a massacre if no one's alive to call it that.

>>382547104
Mastema is a special fusion in final.

>>382547673
He's certainly a final boss from a game released last year.

So what religion's have Lucifer and Satan as seperate entities with Satan serving god? Always thought the two were interchangable.

>>382547673
>bonds route has you fight alongside Flynn, Walter, Jonathan, and Isabeau
Fuck me I picked the wrong route

>>382547673
>one of the final bosses

That aside he's great. Good banter and GOAT music on both phases

>>382547776
Satan is in the book of Job as an angel serving God. Lucifer isn't in any actual religious texts, and is a character created for the book Paradise Lost.

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>>382547494
He's in Final too, though he isn't an NPC in any capacity.

>>382544771
I thought it was he wanted to return to the time when the gods weren't just personifications of nature, but were nature itself. Thus The Dagda would no longer be known as "The Dagda", but just "the fuckin wind or whatever". Essentially the same result as to what you said but in a different way.

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Homeslice!

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What's his fucking problem?

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>>382544597
>being so edgy that you'd betray your one ally in the super edgelord route

>>382548251
He's the Ur-Lawfag.

>>382544871
they're not similar at all silly.
The white want to eliminate literally everything into nothing but dagda just wants to deconstruct the primitive idea of relishing and attributing observations to humanoid artifacts because in the end, as much of the game demonstrates, all gods are problematic.

>>382548273
I wanted to fuck that mindslave so bad and watch her birth my universe

>>382548273
>Super Edgelord route.

Because it's best to allow this shit to continue endlessly and at the mercy of gods forever and ever just for the sake a handful of humans?

You know who else did the edgelord "fuck everyone else, my friends only" shit before? Fucking Last of Us.

You're essentially dooming the entirety of existence because your friends matter to you more than the hundred thousand other souls that lost and will lose their lives to some asshole god at the end.

>>382547673
The OST is simply amazing. Truly the peak of SMT music

>>382548593
Isn't Toki underage? Like 13 or something? Why you sexualizing 13 year old teenagers?

>Toot toot pajoot is the best support demon that can also trivializes random encounters with a shit ton of ailment
>Power ranger is a great phys and elec damage dealer with Pierce
>this fattass only has a gimmicky Megido/la and a stupid weakness gimmick

I just want to bring the trio to YHVH

>>382548713

So you should doom existence so you can become new YHVH in new existence and just restart the cycle? Brilliant plan!

Go back to bed, dagda.

>>382548713
To reject the current universe is to reject yourself, everything that made you the person you are today.

Changing it is fine if someone is fucking with it (The Great Will rejected YHVH so he's not coming back, at least in his current form). Destroying and rebuilding everything to try and save people who never wanted your salvation is the edgiest thing you can do.

>>382546564
Gods are merely caricatures of human thought. So I'd say no. Oblivion is their worst enemy so they cleverly chose to undermine human observation to their advantage

>>382546580
Play the fucking game you chump

>>382544597

The game punishes you later for being a neutralfag fence sitter or changing alignments at the last second.

>>382548948
If that's your head-canon, sure.

The massacre's point was getting rid of that sort of war and gods altogether, and letting humans live on their own for once, instead of the seemingly "happy" friendship ending in which it's only a matter of time before someone wakes up Krishna or what's-his-name again.

And guess what? Your rag-tag bunch of misfits are goddamned incompetent at actually saving anyone, and for every demon you kill, there's hundreds of thousands of corpses you could not and will never be able to save if you remain human. And they will keep up piling because you're trusting demons to stay put and friendship along with you, which never fucking worked.

YHVH is simply a very powerful demon out of many you haven't accounted for.

>>382549332
Anon, there are no humans left, you killed them all. Whatever you create in the new universe won't have the same character, history and ability to grow and overcome because they never faced the same challenges.

>>382549332
>>382548713

This, pretty much. The Peace route is the kind of thing that seems nice and great on first inspection, but the more I thought about it I realized you've essentially reached another "happy" smt 2 ending where everything seems nice until Nocturne happens and Alec is tortured to sit on the sidelines forever and ever as the demons keep returning again and again, and it's why I did the massacre route second and haven't changed since.

>>382549537
>>382549332

>My head-canon is better than yours: the posts

>>382546308

>MUH IF.....

butterfly effect sucks

>>382549465
They're the same souls, however. And reincarnation is a thing. And that whole thing about the ability to grow is bullshit, if you're pulling the shots and you give them the ability to grow and stay hands-off, without the demons taking away that ability to grow so everything has to start at square one every damn time.

You're the one writing the book. What's to stop you from recreating the world, only without demons? Use your imagination.

>>382548338
HOULD UP

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Wtf was his problem?

>>382547673

>tfw YHWH smirks

>>382549798
Who?

I only played SMT Apocalypse and Persona 4 and 5.

I chose to the Massacre route, too.

>>382549798
Prometheus dindu muffin wrong
Prometheus best titan

>>382548139

>SHIT JUST GOT BANANACAKES
>DID I MENTION I'M THE FAIRY QUEEN?
>hands down worst partner

>>382549948
>all those ailments
>worst partners

>>382548593

>still can't believe they let the lust urn scene through the localization

>>382549798
He's just another bully like all the other gods

>>382549537

isn't that the point of most "good" endings in SMT where the calm is always temporary and the pendelum of chaos will ALWAYS swing back?

>>382549980

>whiff ailments
>most endgame shit resists gun

oops...

>>382547673
Id go as far to say the best of all smt.
The build up is fucking brilliant and the writing is by far smt at it's peak.

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>>382550318
She pierce after Inanna but yeah, after cosmic egg you can just grab the ailment king

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>>382545260
You protect this smile

Is there a reward for beating the Stephen DLC? I haven't beaten the bossfight yet.

>>382549332
Wait so I'll save more souls by going massacre route? If I save more people, regardless If I know them or not...I'll do it if it means only killing a handful

>>382544597
What I like:
>Dagda
>Kill your faggot friends option
>My own personal cumdump goddess
>Press Turn gameplay
>Krishna, Odin, Lucifer and Merkabah
>Asahi and Toki
>Good fusion system
>Easy farming through 5 bucks dlc
>The challenging difficulty
>Boss music
>No social links

What I hate:
>The ear destroying music in the last dungeon
>Having to play goody two shoes friendfag for almost the entire game
>Demons are just .jpegs in an arrangement. They have no life. 3D models pls.
>That cunt Navarre destroying my items.
>Awful law and chaos routes. Not everyone is a neutralfag.
>Hunter's Association
>Nanashi's design
>Nozomi being a huge bitch and you can't even say fuck you to her. Have to carry her useless ass around.
>Best outfits are locked behind shitloads of cash and at endgame to boot. Early gothic lolita pls.
>Asahi getting wrecked before she can witness you killing your friends.
>Goddess Asahi has shit healing because her awakening is locked behind the friend route.
>God is a villain and the final boss. Makes me uncomfortable because I like to believe God exists.

I think that's it. I'll add more if I think about it.

>>382547673
>have Shiva with drain phys
>breeze through the fight lmao
no he isn't

>>382551190
>goody two shoes
>can basically tell your female friend to fuck off after a bunch of people die

Sure, you can't really get rid of them until the Cosmic Egg, but you can certainly be a turbo dick

>>382551190
>Awful law and chaos routes. Not everyone is a neutralfag

The whole point of the game was debunking how god awful those routes.

>>382551398
>can basically tell your female friend to fuck off after a bunch of people die
When?

>but you can certainly be a turbo dick
That's not good enough. Why am I working for the cunting Hunters? They are total shit.

>>382551559
>The whole point of the game was debunking how god awful those routes.
That's stupid dude. Chaos and Law are fun routes but SMT IV made them shitty on purpose. I hate fence straddlers who can't commit to anyone. I certainly don't want to be one.

>>382551190
>>382551748
>all this fucking edge
theism really has become the new atheism, hasn't it?

>>382552061
Excuse me what edge?

>>382551748
>Law Mikado
>Systematic social structure where the strong rule and oppress the weak

>Chaos Tokyo
>Strong still kill and undermine all the weak anywho

Despite the extremes, their conditions funnel identically.
IV had shabby writers but 4A shows the bigger picture.

>>382551748
Why all the assblast over the story? It trumps any other smt storyline and completely expands on routes on a higher level

>>382551190
Why does everyone hate the friends?
>asahi is qt
>toki is qt
>Noxomi is qt
>Gaston becomes cool
>navarre has kick ass skills
>hallelujah is a BRO
I don't like Iseabeau but she's really good

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>>382555739
because the power of friendship thing is fucking boring and really overdone at this point, fuck friends let me become a nietzschean superman and fuck YHVHs shit up myself.

>>382555739
>Hallelujah
>I'M THE FUCKING BOSS OF THE ASHURA-KAI MOTHERFUCKER
5 minutes later
>uuhmm did y-you j-just call me b-boss

>>382555739
There were too many of them, and it felt like I couldn't go five minutes without them giving their two cents on everything for way too long. SMTIV had Walter, Jonathan and Isabeau with you for large chunks of the game, but they never felt smothering like the Final party does.

>>382555739
They're all asshole really

Asahi is a complete retard
Toki is a betraying asshole
Red bitch is the most annoying and useless one of the group yet she insit to be the leader
Gaston is just an incompetent asshole
Navarre only exist so people can mock him and he can act offended he has no other role
Hallelujah is an average JRPG protag who stumbled into the wrong and is only useful against pajeet and during a cutscene where your character is nerfed into the ground and he is buffed beyond any reason.

They're also all too cheerful, serve little purpose during the story and just leech on your power while claiming that you're a team.

The only good one is Toki as a brainwashed cumdup.

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>>382556047
We'll I want to keep my friends and have Dagda's universe...this game is gay and full of railroading bullshit

>>382557059
But why do you want to keep them ? They're not friends they just follow you around because you can smash demons better than everyone else.

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>>382557059
>being a slave to yhvh

>>382557251
>>382556928
Y'all really think they don't love me? Ok then I'll have to kill them. They say to my face they like me but then they go and fight me. Ok I'll do it

>>382557334
Where do you get that idea? I just love my friends bc they're CUTE! Gaston is incompetent in what way? Navarre doesn't serve a purpose but supposedly he loves me

>>382557334
In the words of a wise priest, I kick arse for the Lord.

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>>382557957
>he doesn't want a world of strength

prepare for disahoyment yhvh fuccboi

>>382557957
Is he from the game?

>>382557957
Shit who said that..fuck

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> No option to join the Divine Powers

Why is this game so shit

>>382558331
Nice racism Cletus. Did you really feel the need to bleach a pure indo-aryan God?

>>382551190
>God is a villain and the final boss
YHVH isn't The Father, anon.

>>382558206
>Implying that strength without oversight and temperance is anything but self destruction.

>Foolish son of man

>>382558210
>>382558309
The priest from Peter Jacksons Dead Alive (or Braindead, whichever you prefer). It's horrible in the greatest way.

But seriously the whole Law/Chaos/Neutrality scale becomes significantly less interesting when the developers smack you across the head for looking at either side of Neutral. It must be just as frustrating to me as it is to Chaosfags.

warning >>382547951 is a thoroughly incorrect post

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>>382546468
I don't. They were fucking trash.

>>382556928
I admit, the whole lovey dovey friends forever-schpiel really could've been handled a little better but they were good tie-ins for the peace ending even if it felt a little forced.

>They're also all too cheerful, serve little purpose during the story and just leech on your power while claiming that you're a team.

metaphorically speaking, they each reflected their respective factions and illustrate how indifferent their motivations really were at the end. There really is no "law" or "chaos". They just carry by outward appearance of power structure

It's the most narrative effort I've seen come out of mainline writing since ever.

No. You gotta betray him upfront.

>>382559274
what demon is that?

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>>382558331
>Inanna says she will protect Danu's forest in her place
>"Lol dude the forest is very important you know I can't let you deal with that, this jobber hunter that takes photo while the forest burns is much better than you"

Nice counterargument there Danu, no wonder why your son ditched you

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>>382546468
Same

>>382559506
It's the SMT 1 heroine.

>>382558848
That's why the nothing ending from iv was so perfect

>>382559701
is there a colored version of that picture?

>>382559790
I don't know.

>>382559332
Let me guess you think persona has good writing too

>they each reflected their respective factions and illustrate how indifferent their motivations really were at the end.

But each factions had differents motivations, Apocalypse is just badly trying to create an united human faction.

You made me remember the moment where you happen upon the remnant of a battle near the Perpetual Reactor. You have body of human, angels and demons everywhere in the room and Nozomi say something along the line of "Wow this is pretty sad, there is no reason to fight each other"

This is completly missing what makes demons and angels so terrifying. They care very little about their lives. They are a bunch of immortals reincarning autists with strange moodswing for the demons and an unflinching personnality for the angels. Their leaders have more diverses personality but it still fall along those lines.

>There really is no "law" or "chaos". They just carry by outward appearance of power structure

Except you have clear differences between how each factions treat their members and non-members. Apocalypse have great writing when it comes to demons and co. but when it comes to the human it fails completly.

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>tfw still shit at fusion despite beating like 3 megaten games

I just fuse demons as necessary and it always bites me in the ass, haven't ever been able to beat superbosses

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>>382551190
>Not everyone is a neutralfag.
You're still in time to become part of the master race
>Makes me uncomfortable because I like to believe God exists.
Ayyyo, hol up lawboi
>>382558206
More like World of DEX, silly Chaosfag.

>>382560939
Just don't do auto select. Tailor it to what you expect to fight. You can grind to if you want to so you can fuse demons in your area over and over again until you're strong enough

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>>382561673
Neutral path is shite. Nothingness is the only true, final solution is nothing. No one can truly be righteous and there is no truly righteous path- The Law paths always end up as a catch 22 and the chaos path is bad for obvious reasons. The neural paths are futile or self serving or what have you. No one deserves to live since each path always has immoral drawbacks.

>>382560879
Sounds like you chose the white in iv huh?

>>382548713
This.

>>382558331
Divine Powers a best SMT villain group

>>382562483
>Waaaah nobody is truly right
>waaaaah better destroy everything because muh hurt feelings
There are higher callings than "righteousness".
And of course the Neutral routes are self serving you little shit.

>>382555739
>Asahi
Retarded and cowardly chick
>Toki
Brainwashed and a liar
>Nozomi
Whistleblower
>Gaston
muh pride, muh angels
>Hallelujah
Coward, liar and overall useless even in the gameplay aspect
>Isabeau
muh Flynn, muh neutral path, muh gay manga

>>382550321
I agree, its super aesthetic.

>>382563386
I reject the non abramic God depicted in smt. If that's the way Sky daddy is than I'll do anything I can to kill him. However, I'm not perfect either. I could never become the new YVHV- that's shit and everyone knows that it's not right or just. The world deserves to end if no one can do what's right
>neutral path is self serving
Which is why it's garbage. Selflessness is truth

>>382563360
Yeah they are. I'd love to have more Neutral group composed of non-Christian entities like that and Dagda instead of the usual humans or Japanese deities

>>382562895
No, I'm a lawfag.

But I usually end up doing neutral in ng+ to get the most bossfight.

>>382563395
In fairness Asahi is like 15. Toki I agree. Gaston became way more than what you're giving him credit for and you just want to downplay him. As for Hallelujah he was like a in between choice of Iseaubeau and Navarre, I thought he did fine. He's also not an adult. I agree about Nozomi her fairy queen thing she couldn't really see beyond that and the bigger picture and I totally agree.

>>382564280
Why would you want such an impotent existence, enslaved to the angels? That's not true freedom dude, and it's not a morally just law. Cmon man

>>382560879
>But each factions had differents motivations, Apocalypse is just badly trying to create an united human faction.

The fundamental issue is that power creates disjointed factions. Ashura is imperfect and RoG is extremely radical but both hold the stakes in juggling around the common people that don't want to have to do with any of them. When you defeat Merk and Lucy they're all free from their radical grasps.

>Except you have clear differences between how each factions treat their members and non-members

In what ways? in what I mentioned in >>382552374. You even see parallels like this in blasted and infernal tokyo. In the end the strong do whatever they please, whether it be oppressing through killing or control.

Lucifer and Merkabah coerced people to join their faction through ridiculous ultimatums. Easily it's just a power struggle of "you're with me or against me." Humans still lose in both scenarios. In whatever faction it is, be it Ring of Gaea or Ashura or whatever, it's clearly just a circle of people stomping on others that don't agree with them.

>>382563395
Also you didn't address Navarre who apart from his distasteful aesthetic really wasn't that bad. He was meant for comedic relief but he was there for the protagonist when it counted. Except at the end.

>>382564281
Kinda downplayed him, yes. Gaston is the only character that has a decent character arc and progression, but for 75% of the game he's just spewing the same shit over and over until he finally snaps when the party is caught in Mikado. I have to agree he definitely is the only good character. Rest was shit or forgettable outside of some random banter here and there. Nozomi, Isabeau and Navarre played no important enough role in the story to even be part of the main party.

>>382564546
Which is exactly why The White or nothingness ending is GOAT

>>382564732
I honestly forgot Navarre was in the game.

>>382563395
You make these points like the characters from IV weren't trash either.
Hoyboy and Johnny were just cardboard cut out tokens for law and chaos.

>>382564868
Ok Nozomi can fuck off but Iseaubeau has luster candy is really worth killing her? She's ugly too so no I won't revive her. I want to use her A+ tier skills but she's too ugly to revive

>>382564926
True, but Nothingness really warranted that you played both 4 and 4A in its entirety to really understand their motivations.
I was planning on making my fourth and final run on IV on nothingness but there's a lot of self-defeating in that decision

>>382564868
Also did you play iv? Navarre went from shit to not shit in apocalypse

>>382565154
/y/ fags are always worth killing

>>382565307
Yeah I get what you mean and I picked nothingness by accidental click but the more I played apocalypse the more I understood how great it was. Can you explain your "self defeating" point please?

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>>382565392
Ok ok pal let's not go there you're walking a VERY fine line

>>382563854
>I reject the non abramic God depicted in smt.
But that's pretty much the Sky Daddy of the abramic religions, and that's really edulcorated too since the actual abramic god doesn't really give a shit about people other than his chosen tribe whereas SMT's Green Daddy loves all humans who follow the law, japanese or russians are the same to him.
Or do you really think the scriptures' God wasn't a crazy, paranoid genocidal murderer who'd get offended by some statue or people not believing in him? Hell, he went as far to create the Egyptians, ruse them repeatedly and nuke them with plagues just for the hell of it, Big Green Daddy is not even remotely as hardcore.
>The world deserves to end if no one can do what's right
So you're a self hating lawfag, with no personal moral compass too, how tragic.
>Which is why it's garbage
Says the self hating lawfag wimp.
I'd rather choose to save my fellow man and let them live a better life instead of being somebody else's lapdog or forcing them to be slaves, killing everything is the coward's choice, because you refuse to tap into mankind's potential of evolution, in that sense you're worse than both lawfags or chaosfags, at least they both want to live, you're just a depressed suicidal faggot.

>>382565530
>play another 60 hour run, watch same dialogue, same bosses yada yada
>to get nothing ending

there's no point mang. neutral route completely burned me out

>tfw want krishna back in 5 but don't want it to be the divine powers show again
Krishna and Odin were GOAT.

>>382565697
You can just read about it or take a break. Of course, if you take a break it'll be difficult to figure out where you were but still.

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>>382565154
I chose Nozomi as my Megami. Her skills were a great synergy with my party. I already had enough Luster Candy users.

>>382565337
Navarre went from being a no-character to an actual character even if shallow. I mean, in IV only shows up in the very first couple of hours never to be seen again.

>>382565767
If he still has his Ragas then it's all fine
Also fusable Dagda and Danu pls

>>382565046
In IV the character being more shallow isn't necessarily bad since both Walter and JONATHAN were only supposed to act as alignment representatives. Isabeau got some more "meat" on her character because it's usual for the Heroine to have some more characterization.
In Apocalypse all these characters were supposed to be some sort of actual RPG party characters, with depth and character arcs but they just end up being terrible and annoying for the most part.

>>382565648
You completely ignore New Testament and what happened immediately following Adam and Eve getting thrown out of the Garden of Eden. I don't want to derail the thread so for the sake of simplicity just pretend the New Testament totally forgives Old Testament. It's just too complicated to get into right now. I'd rather have demiurge honestly than YVHV or whatever and worship that than be stuck in this eternal struggle.
>self hating lawfag with no personal moral compass
It's not my fault I can't create the games kek. If even god can't be held accountable for this shit and no one can hold him accountable, he deserves to be punished too. Bring on Demiurge like I said again.
>rather save my fellow man
Nigger in what path ingame do you save them? Are you totally delduded? Every single path is either immoral or complete suffering. There has to be Law but it has to be Good and the way YVHV is portrayed he just wants us to jerk him off and lick his feet. Fuck that. You're doing us all a favor by choosing nothingness

>>382566568
>can't fight YHVH with Dagda
They should've at least shoved him into Flynn's party for the Massacre end.

>>382557059
Then remake them in the new universe.

>>382565046
Not advocating the IV treatment, but when weren't mainline characters just alignment vessels.
An issue I have, boring for guys who stay here until the lock.

>>382566746
YHVH IS the Demiurge, though.

>>382566324
I'm not going to say Nozomi is bad since those ailments shit on the enemy but people think she isn't necessary because Krishna is better and Nozomi uses gun which apparently is bad. I do like her though because mode demons that use ailments are extremely shitty

>>382566710
>Walter and JONATHAN were only supposed to act as alignment representatives
that's old news that's been outdone since SMT1. you're just being too harsh on 4A's cast. they were annoying but it was still an enjoyable take on something new

>>382567205
In apocalypse he's just a level 95 with a slew of resists and gets Debilitate+severe almighty attack.

>>382567067
But that's not the same...I'd have to kill them first and they won't understand why I do it...killing them is evil

>>382567210
Nozomi is definitely not the easiest or most able partner but somehow her ailments made my playthrough a lot easier. I didn't even bother fusing Krishna, to be honest so I can't comment on him as a demon partner. And in any case, Nozomi laying down the ailments was beter since I didn't even needed to waste a Press Turn on that.

>Nozomi uses gun which apparently is bad
That's a non-issue for the most part and specially after she receives Awakening. Only difference is that she won't use Rapid Bind or Blank Bullet.

>>382566859
They could put Dagda in Flynn's party and let Iseaubeau in your team so she can heal for you

>>382545757
Didn't your mom teach you to spoiler your shit?
I don't care because I finished those games, but maybe some didn't.

>>382559573
At that point in the game, Inanna had already made it known that she sides with the Divine Powers. Danu knew that she was just lying to reclaim her powers, even though it was partially Danu's fault that Inanna joined the bad guys in the first place.

>>382567727
Not using a press turn icon is good benefit even though you can't choose what ailment she uses

no-human smt when
demon partners when
demon h-scenes when

>>382562483
That's called nihilism.
Not my shit, but have fun.

>>382567982
>fucking anything that isn't your designated party members
That's not the megaten I remember
I just want to fuck lilith man.

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did some say toot?

>>382567565
You can explain it to them

>Killing them is evil
Nice meme. Liberating their souls from the old constructs is salvation.

>>382568242
You call it nihilism, I call it a close. If God can't be morally just and good, but all powerful, than someone has to put him in his place. And if humans can't be morally good and just, they do deserve nothing. All existence does (the way it's portrayed here) is create suffering and enslavement. So, the only way to end suffering is to end it all.

>>382560879
I didn't really care much of about the human faction in Apocalypse. Everyone except for Asahi's dad, Ken, and Hiroshi were completely useless, or whined too much. The party members except for Navarre and Isabeau were completely annoying with their quirks.

>>382568623
>explain it to them
Don't think they'll believe me. Do they in the game? I don't think so
>nice meme
No, inflicting unnecessary pain on them and killing them isn't right when if they would just get out of my way things would be ok. If they let Dagda and I have our way things would be fine.

>>382567073
it's just lazy narrative techniques that 4A does a huge favor by expanding on, which is why you see spinoffs like persona doing better off.

>>382568992
>Navarre
>not annoying

>>382566746
>You completely ignore New Testament
That's just Jeeboos fanfiction tho, not muh YHVH.
Besides, it's not like New Testament God is really all that better, especially considering certain gospels, but it's not like the Old Testament was much more coherent really.
>Nigger in what path ingame do you save them?
Neutral paths, duh.
>Every single path is either immoral or complete suffering.
There you go again with your self hating lawfagness sonny boi, if Commander Gore were here he'd kick that faggot nihilism outta you, alas, he died for us to better ourselves.
If you can't handle some heat get out, you want your own God's paradise but at the same time you don't want to believe that said God is still a bit of an asshole, you base your reasoning on absolutes when there are none to begin with, there is no moral highground to speak of, just sides you take, if you don't accept this you'll never stop suffering yourself.
There is no permanence in this world, nor there are absolutes, thinking in black and white and destroying everything achieves nothing, choosing non existence is admitting failure, and I won't have that.

>>382569231
Killing them is necessary to free them since they are bound to the universe and their souls are required for the creation of the new universe. You can't have rebirth without death.

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>that feeling of emptiness when you wipe out the hunters and the few people remaining are concerned about the egg and there ceases to be new quests and recruitable demons

>>382569805
Navarre is way more useful than any of the other party members and he's trying hard not to screw up. He unintentionally saved Oberon from getting the full brunt of Titania's PMS rage.

>>382571012
He becomes completely irrelevant once your party gets luster candy and fog/acid breath, which is only a little past half way in the game
And having to watch the same mini-cutscene every time you charge the jade dagger was dumb as hell

>>382570142
Ok well I'm fine with killing YVHV
>neutral paths
Can you explain how to do that without killing innocents?
>can't handle some heat get out
If God isn't morally just I'll be morally just. If he created evil I'll end it.
>nothingness is admitting defeat
I respectfully disagree. If humans will always be evil than it deserves to die and if nothing in this world exists that is pure than it doesn't deserve to continue.