Will mankind ever be able to form an opinion about this game

>>382517141
a general and reasonable conclusion has been reached literally everywhere but /v/ and only the lowest of low youtube comments. /v/ is trash and watching you all attempt to discuss souls makes me sick.

>>382517660
>a general and reasonable conclusion has been reached literally everywhere but /v/
And that is?

Reviewers and """casuals""" think its GOTY 12/10 Best game in the world the souls fanbase around the web hates it or is indifferent towards it, so what is it then

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>>382517756
DaSII is trash

>>382517756
Overall a bad game in every core aspect but had various QoL and build variety improvements compared to 1, all of which were stripped out from 3 because FROM is somehow so stupid they don't understand how criticism works. It also had good DLC's.

Scholar of the First Sin is a lot of fun co-op wise.

This happens every time a sequel changes a bunch of stuff, is a step back without being irredeemable trash, or focuses on elements the previous games didn't. Souls fans happen to be one of the worst groups of people in this industry, which exacerbates that issue in this case. You also see it with the Sonic series, but somehow they manage to be a bit more tolerable about their shit flinging.

>>382517996
Pretty much.
You had vast improvments like the bow mechanics, inventory management and multidirectional rolling but on the other hand the whole rest of the game had like zero quality control.

It had a bunch of good stuff like armor with interesting effects and some neat covenants, but then they fucked up the PVP completely with the Soul Memory shit and made all your equipment have the durability of shit-soaked cardboard. That and the overall combat is so clunky that it's just not fun to play overall

Also the lore's fucking retarded. DSIII was an unending chain of DS1 callbacks, but at least it wasn't suddenly a retarded high fantasy setting about giants and reincarnation

I unironically like every dark souls game.They all gave me a challenge regardless of textures, gameplay and lore inconsistencies

>>382517756
They don't though

>>382519228
>overall combat is so clunky that it's just not fun to play overall

This applies to every Souls except for BB and III

>>382519475
I'd say 1 was pretty good. Not fantastic, but pretty good. That said, I actually liked the faster pace of III and a few other things that it carried over from Bloodborne. Apparently that's a rare opinion around here

>>382517996
This is wrong. Disregard this.

>Check what SoTFS is to see if they fixed something
>All i see is fucking enemies everywhere

Can someone explain to me what the fuck were they thinking am i playing Souls or Diablo

for many people DaS2 was their second Souls game. For me it was my third since I started with DeS. Maybe that's why I am harsher on it than most people. It just does everything so wrong IMO.

DaS 2 is the best.
Dark Souls 1 is ok.
Demons' Souls is a relic.
Bloodborne has a nice theme but removes too much while over focusing on the combat.
Dark Souls 3 is plain garbage.

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>>382517141
I think the reason DSII is so divisive is because Souls fans won't admit it's the only good game in the series. Reviewers and people outside of the core fanbase can look at it objectively but the people who consider themselves the core audience dislike being a part of the "normie" crowd and thus hate it solely for that reason. That's why, when asked, most of them can't come up with a clear reason why they dislike it other than feelings.

>>382519753
Don't know what you expected. Near every boss in the base game was either a dude in armor or two dudes in armor because "Muh O&S so let's make O&S again but uninteresting"

>>382519843
II is reviewed so positvely only because it was the first souls for many

>>382520061
It was probably because reviewers feared backlash of the "SO HARDCORES! THE GAME DOESN'T SUCK YOU SUCK - GITGUD XD" community if they scored it low.

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That comic that shows the careful player surviving vs. the casual scum that step on every trap switch and get 50 arrows up their ass.

Everyone who hates Daek Souls 2 is that bun rushing casual faggot.

-They face roll into mobs and complain how every encounter is a 1v3.
-They refuse to think about a way of strategy for drake guard fights so they complain how they attack nonstop when all you have to do us flank them with sprint.
-They complain that not every boss is a super-memorable rhythm tempo game like Artorias, and don't give credit to variety and boss count.
-They complain about the rat boss with 3 adds which is obviously meant to be an optional tricky puzzle encounter to challenge you.
-They cry about Shrine of Amana even though all you need is a bit of patience, critical thinking and environmental awareness - because in their mind, all challenges in Souls need to be overcome by 1-on-1 combat and should be speed ran.
-They cry about Soul Memory which makes co-op better because they're competitive proto-tourneyfags who actually take PvP seriously in these games.

I mean DaS 2 certainly has problems, especially before SotFS, but it's my favorite game because it totally weeds out all the cancerous playstyles.

>>382517141
As a Souls game it is disappointing as fuck, was too slow and clunky. But if it had a different title I think it would have been much more well received. I thoroughly enjoyed it, but most everyone on /v/ will say it's garbage just because it isn't Dark Souls 1.

>>382518493
Pros
>good combat
>best poise system
>best fist weapons
>understanding
>cool lore (besides old dragonslayer)
Cons
>quantity over quality
>AGI
>soul memory
>bad optional bosses
>worst final boss

>>382517141
Why don't you just form your own opinion on it and fuck everybody else's?

>>382520846
Pfff Dark Souls 1 was and still is a rushed pile of trash after O&S.

People have a fanatic bias towards it because the first half of the game was really good and actually lived up to the pre-release hype for the first day that you played it.

>>382520883
>best poise system
?????????????

>>382520883
>besides old dragonslayer

Why is that fucktard in every Soul.

>>382520883
>>382521045
Do any of the fames even have a good poise system?

>>382521079
I think DaS3 did it best with hyper armor/poise stack type deal. It works kind of how it would if DeS and DaS1 got fusioned.

>>382521045
In Dark souls 1 you could poise tank every boss so it was a bit over powered, in 2 it was weak but still there and in 3 if I'm hit when I'm not attacking I flinch which is destroyed any tactical retreat I make when I invade the dorksword gankers

You'd have to been a Souls fan before it came out to understand the rage.
1. The downgrade. What the trailers showed was practically an entirely different game. The absolute worst example that I'm personally familiar with.
2. The magic died. With Demon's Souls and Dark Souls everyone loved them and just rolled with the flaws, minor or major. We had comics and jokes and generally a good time playing. 2 was just... there. There was nothing memorable about it. Not the characters. Not the setting. Especially not the multiplayer, which suddenly had almost everything we loved and loved to hate about it gutted.

Eventually I came to enjoy it with the DLCs, but just how much of a letdown it was in the beginning can't be understated.

>>382520797
most of your points are totally valid but soul memory is just complete garbage no matter how you put it. also, the huge boss count would be a plus if it weren't for the fact that so many of them were either "left slash, right slash, overhead strike" swordguy, or hordes of multiple enemies

regardless though, 2 = 3 > 1

>>382521061
3 has dumb lore where you apparently never killed Ornstein or Smough and half of 2's bosses were attempt to recreate O and S or Artorias.

>>382517141
The game is shit but still enjoyable. The SOTFS version of course.

>>382521794
bosses like covetous demon and prowling magus might as well not be in the game. a toddler could beat them.

ledges and cliffs killed me more than bosses and invaders

>>382521786
Also, the music.
Asylum Demon, Iron Golem, CJ and Big Smoke, Four Kings, Nito, Seath, Gwyn, Kalameet, and Manus are all battle themes I can remember from DaS.
The only one I can remember from DaS2 is Ruin Sentinels.

Don't pretend DaSII is the only game which creates split opinions.

DaS
>It's the original - The true masterpiece - Demon Souls improved in every way
>The game is incredibly overrated - The game becomes clearly weaker after OandS and Lost Izalith and Demon Ruins are the worst areas in all of Souls. The PvP was also shit

DaSII
>It feels like a true personal adventure. I love how different each area looks, the powerstance and PvP
>The game is a complete mess of broken hitboxes and shitty animations. Everything feels like it got randomly glued together by people who had no idea what they were doing

DaSIII
>So many great bossfights. No other Souls game has overall quality this high. It's truly a great end for the series.
>Lazy rehash sold by Miyazaki on DaS I nostalgia. Even DaS II was more original than this excuse of a game. Why does he hate invaders so much?

>>382522126
>The only one I can remember from DaS2 is Ruin Sentinels

Probably my favourite boss theme from the entire series though.

>>382522195
>The PvP was also shit
How so?
It was good enough to get me addicted. A couple thousand invasions and several thousand attempted orb uses.

>>382522256
It really is a good boss theme.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mz1_3az6Hgs

>>382522346
It was a backstabbing fishing contest on shitty netcode.
Even on high skill level PvP.

It was all we had back in the days though.
That's why plenty of people still value it highly.

>>382522346
not him but lagstabs and minmaxing ruined end game pvp.

it was better around SL50 or so, painted world was a great hotspot

>>382521794
Nobody cares if the bosses are easy. They're sometimes just there for lore and a change of pace. I hate Bloodborne because every fight wants to be Artorias. It's fucking boring.

And Soul Level matchmaking is horse fuck. I have to park my character on the designated PvP autism zone or else I'll never see a soul sign again? Shit is retarded let me level up however I want. Maybe I want to wear huge armor, wield a 50 STR Greatshammervand still have healthy stats? Nooooo tourneyfags need to infest the game and I'm locked into an SL 60/120 build even though I don't even wanna PvP.

Anyone who thinks PvP is to be taken in seriously in these games is a massive fucking mind midget. PvP balance has been tertiary in the game design.

Until DaS 3. And look at that, DaS 3 is a pile of garbage.

>>382522126
Ruin Sentinels
Last Giant
Executioner Chariot
Old Dragonslayer
Sinh

Some of the best tracks in the series.

>>382521786
>There was nothing memorable about it. Not the characters. Not the setting.

The game WAS memorable but for all the wrong reasons.
Go on, how many people even remember who Felkin, Carhillion or Navlaan were?
Meanwhile how many will remember terms like "Earthen Peak and Lost Bastille elevators", "Welcome to Dark Souls achievement" or "Soul Memory"?
And even IF an NPC is memorable, it's definitely not because of his deep lore or strong character traits but awkward stuff like Straid giving you shit for buying his spells, Gavlan Wheel Gavlan Deal or BEAR SEEK SEEK LEST.

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>>382522832
Straid is a dick for a reason, but I can't remember it or really care

>>382522832
Ask people about DaS 2 NPCs and you get the same result

>implying anyone ever gave a shit about NPCs in Dark Souls that aren't Solaire

>Osvald? Literally who?
>I attacked that guy the moment i saw he because he looked scary

>Crestfallen Knight?
>I accidently hit him because i thought everything in this game is hostile and he was too strong for me so i cheesed him at a cliff.

>Shiva of the East?
>More like Shiva the Deceased!

Does some things right, does some things wrong. Love power stance and life gems. Life gems let the devs crank up the difficulty which is what we all want anyways.

Stuff like having to kill 4 gods to open up the shrine of winter because a small pile of rock blocks a path is fucking retarded

>>382523234
Life gems aren't bad in theory, but nerfing Estus to make you use them more was retarded

>>382523303
Yeah, you got a point

>>382523303
Only at the very beginning though, you can get like 6 shards and a couple of bone dusts in the first areas.

this vid is pretty much how I feel about DaS2. it had so many chances to improve upon DeS and DaS1, but took steps back in a lot of areas.
Turn on the closed captions it's pretty funny.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9mfbhLySdU

>>382517756
>the souls fanbase around the web hates it or is indifferent towards it
no

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The fucking endless lament of Dark Souls is that none of these faggots could learn from past victories and mistakes.

I dislike 3 the most on map design alone. People meme about DS2 going "XD le ebin prepare to die" but holy fuck at least they knew what a color is, DS3's palette is essentially diarrhea mixed with concrete.
Irithyl creams your pants for like 5 seconds with the borealis and then it's back to "lol what if we copy pasted [good thing from DS1] but then ruined it with Bloodborne assets?", this is the entire game in a nutshell.

The linear map is quite possibly one of the worst things ever done to a Souls game, even worse than SM because Souls PVP is a bigger joke than competitive Overwatch.
At least the fashion is good.

>>382523456
Fuck off back to /plg/

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>Cave of the Dead
>Frigid Outskirts
>Iron Keep
I like DS2 but holy shit, these areas are so fucking bad they're almost unplayable. Quite possibly the 3 worst areas in Souls history, all in the same game. It's like the devs were finishing it all up, had it playtested and every time someone said "this is bad, change it" they would throw it into some containment area instead of just deleting it. Even the bosses are total trash: a cloned boss, a literal recolor, and 3 NPCs to fuck you up the ass.

You don't even get anything good for doing it, it's just torture.

Tfw played ds2 and ds3 over the course of like 2 days each and don't remember anything about them

>>382523654
>The linear map is quite possibly one of the worst things ever done to a Souls game
I agree, I almost didn't preorder when I heard about it. I can't imagine what the next game will be like in that regard.

>>382517141
It's not pure trash. Better than pretty much all attempts to clone the souls series in 3D. It is clearly loaded with a lot of flaws and is worse than the first game. However when you look past the animations being jank and all the areas being graphically unfinished and unpolished as hell it is kind of better than DaS3 because it at least gives the impression that it tries despite and probably because of the Icarus flight that was probably its development.

>>382522832
Come on. Navlaan was at least memorable, this one fucker that you could do assassination quests for by turning in keepsakes of various undead and who would invade you throughout the game if you actually let him out. I don't really remember the other 2 since I didn't really play magic focused characters that much but I think one of them (Felkin?) is a dark hexer you see at one point in the game that I think only attacks with pyromancy. I think Carhillion may be a sorceror that you see on the docks in that one area and he's your generic sorcery teacher that doesn't want to teach the mentally disabled.

>>382522996
I think it was that he was petrified for so long that that he was the only remnant of the kingdom that once had him petrified.

>>382523654
Even gameplay wise 3's levels are shit.
1 gets a pass cause it plays like a metroidvania
2 was great, tons of little side paths to go down and many missable pickups, you had to do a proper comb-over to find everything.

But 3 just has these big open environments with items laying in plain sight, like they obviously only cared about the next gen aesthetics. Buy like you said, everything just looks like mud, so why the fuck even...

I like every Souls game. The great thing about the series, for me, is that there is something uniquely enjoyable about each game. I like powerstancing in DAS2 AND WAs in DAS3, for example. While DAS3/DAS2 GENERALLY (there is so much to talk about) improve upon things from DAS1 combat system wise, I prefer the world layout.

These are all very big differences, too; it makes it hard for me to choose any of the games as my favorite.

>>382523947
Iron Keep is easy, just keep a bow/x-bow around for zoning, idiot.

>>382523947
>>Cave of the Dead
>>Frigid Outskirts
Those are coop areas.
There is a reason why all of them have NPC summon signs right at the beginning.

>>382523947

frigid outskirts is meant to be bullshit tbf, hence the 2 npc summons and player sign area nearby. it's an optional level and boss purely for the challenge.

>>382522346

From the one shotting dark magic to the hornet ring master backstab fishermen there were a lot of things wrong with the game.

>>382517141
Let me give you an answer by asking another question: is Iron Maiden a great band?

>>382524325
>Not tweaking your build to become completely immune to all magic just to spite people using dark magic

>>382524208
Power stancing felt like a real playstyle that added a new layer of player agency.

Weapon Arts are just a useless meme that do almost nothing in PvE.
If anything, the only redeeming factor for me in 3 is that Int/Div builds have way more weapon selections.

>>382524462

They just run away if you use great magic barrier though, dodging black magic was ingrained into me though it wasn't much of a problem.

>>382524162
>I think it was that he was petrified for so long that that he was the only remnant of the kingdom that once had him petrified.

Which honestly makes not a lick of sense since the way he's placed and posed makes it look like as if he was just petrified while closing the door to the cell which also begs the question WHAT actually petrified all the guys in the game who aren't even close to a basilisk.

Seriously, the NPC and object placement in general is insane.
Why the fuck is Felkin out in bumfuck nowhere just staring at a wall on a chair that looks like it doesn't belong anywhere? If it's because "muh darkness" then why isn't he in the Gutter or Black Gulch?
Why the fuck is some merchant setting up shop in an old castle that is sinking into lava and is also somehow giving you access to the dragon covenant?
Why and HOW is that old knight chasing me into the past?!
How is that wheelchair-bound guy capable of travelling miles between caves? Is he using the chasm as highway?
Why was there a random piece of desert between Shaded Ruins and Doors of Pharros?

>>382524480
>Power stancing felt like a real playstyle

I have no idea what you mean by expressing this feeling. It felt like a "real playstyle?" What does that mean?

>that added a new layer of player agency.

Ok, so it adds to the # of options you have. This is a factual claim that I certainly agree with.

>Weapon Arts are just a useless meme that do almost nothing in PvE.

Well, I'm not sure how you're going to define a "useless meme," but I had tons of fun with many weapon arts. Expanding upon my previous post, contrary to what /v/ generally claims, I found the boss weapon system changes in DAS2/DAS3 to be very much welcomed as opposed to DAS1.

>tfw ivory straight sword
>tfw demon scar

So fucking fun.

>If anything, the only redeeming factor for me in 3 is that Int/Div builds have way more weapon selections.

It's clear what you mean by Int, but what do you mean by Divine? Are you talking about Faith weapons? I'm not sure if this is true, anyways. It could be, but I don't know off of the top of my head. I would guess that you're probably right, since DAS3 has more weapons overall. Although, many will say they are not "viable" to begin with.

>>382524969
Dark Souls 1 had some cool boss weapons, don't get me wrong. I simply think that the consistency of the aesthetic and mechanical designs are superior in 2/3. It would have been cool if the had expanded on the creation system, though.

>>382525348
FUGS was my favourite weapon in the series. will never forgive miyazaki for replacing its special with the generic poise stance in 3

>>382525497
Are you familiar with the auto-block properties of FUGS in DAS2? I think that some of the moves had start-up blocking animations that were actually useful. I always thought that was pretty cool.

Here's what I found on it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dd_0BLGTy5k

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KDame7qv_Tg

https://www.reddit.com/r/DarkSouls2/comments/30v8im/fugs_block_attack_explot/

This should have been a polished property of the weapon with one of/two of FK's moves as the WA.

>>382517141

In this thread we list things Dark Souls 2 did that were far better than Dark Souls 3. I'll start:

>No bonfire and no death challenge where you can beat the game without resting at a bonfire or dying to gain a reward and bragging rights

>Non-linear first half of the game allows you to rush straight to the areas of the game that contain the items for your build

>Chugging Estus immobilizes you, and the heal isn't instantaneous meaning trying to chug while someone is sticking close to you will result in death

>Stamina regeneration is tied to weight, so a character at 10% burden will recover their bar faster than a character at 70% burden, giving an advantage and a reason to make a low burden character

>Poise exists and armor provides relevant, but not overpowering damage reduction, giving an advantage and a reason to make a high burden character

>Phantoms and Dark Spirits cannot chug estus, spirits can only heal via spell useage which is slow. This makes fighting outnumbered even without mob assistance possible since any damage you do sticks

>Can only perform four rolls before running out of stamina

>Can only perform 5 attacks of a rapier or straight sword before running out of stamina

>Parrying has longer recovery frames and consumes more stamina, making parry fishing riskier and makes parrying require higher skill

>Power stance allowing for unique combinations of dual wielding and unlocking an alternative moveset for weapons

>Being able to use the full moveset of a weapon in your off-hand including running, rolling, backstepping, etc. attacks rather than just being able to do a basic R1 swing and blocking with the weapon as it is in Ds3 (lmao who would ever want to weapon block)

>Bell Tower covenant providing two unique optional areas to PvP for Titanite Chunks, Slabs, and Twinkling, making farming for upgrades fun

>Bonfire ascetics to replay bosses you like and or gain items from NG+ and beyond without grinding through the whole game again

>>382519228
>It had a bunch of good stuff like armor with interesting effects
Please elaborate. I'm being sincere, I actually like DaSII, though I think it's the weakest of the series. But I'm curious what armors you're talking about. Do you mean visual effects?

>>382523456
Dark souls 2 is my favorite, also fuck off pathetic tripfag

>>382525979
absolutely, that's why it was so great. heavy weapons were at a massive disadvantage in DaS2, but the FUGS' 2HR2 block prevented players stunning you mid-swing. unlocked it had full 360 degree aim and a large hitbox to catch the end of opponent's rolls. it was the only ultra weapon to be classed as top-tier viability.

in DaS3 it still hits very hard, but it's nothing without that moveset

>>382526474
Some of them had passive effects like the Jester chest armor giving you backstab immunity, the butterfly set poisoning enemies (and NPCs), tattered clothes raising your chance to find items, etc.

>>382526474
Some of the armors would reduce fall damage, give stat ups like int/faith, buff certain types of spells, negate backstabs, poison nearby enemies and cause the player to slowfall. There might be more but those are the ones that I can recall.
Armor also had stat requirements I think and unlike 3 could be relied upon to do its job.

>>382517141
>or will mentioning X always end in a shitfest between people who love it and those who hate everything about it?
You answered your own question.

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>>382526069
nigga u have that shit saved? i literally see this post in this exact same form in many DSII threads!

especially
>Bell Tower covenant providing two unique optional areas to PvP for Titanite Chunks, Slabs, and Twinkling, making farming for upgrades fun

same wording every time

>>382527040
>Armor also had stat requirements I think

You could freely equip anything, but armor scaled with your physical stats to give extra defence bonuses. Individual pieces also scaled with their poise value for further bonuses, so the higher your equip load the more you benefit from heavier gear.

>>382517141
For 90% of the fanbase (including me) Das2 is the worst one in the series.
I still love it because I'm a soulsfag but it's fun to trigger the 10% that like it as the best
It did a lot of good things right like bonfire asthetics and being hurt during backstabs riposte, and powerstance>weapon art

/g/ =! Mankind, anon

>>382528064
It's right, though. Why would you write same competent arguments every time it gets discussed when you can just copypaste it from archive and modify it later if need rises?

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>>382526069
literally saved this, thanks Im not even kidding, this basically ends anyone arguement about das2 being good

It was good. I didn't like the lifegems or the insta teleportation, otherwise it would've been just as good as DaS 1 if not better.

>>382528323
you create an archive for online arguments to copy paste the same shit all over? I dont care if right or wrong but dude wtf

>>382521838
I can't believe, a year on, that people still don't understand 3's place in the timeline

hint: none of the games are canon to each other

>>382528813
3 is canon to 1, it tried to retcon 2 too much and just makes 2s lore fucking weird
The lore is purposely convuluted as fuck in all of them anyways

>>382529209
3 is canon to nothing
The series doesn't have a canon.

Le Time is Le Convoluted xD

I think ds2 strengths are it's pvp which determine the re playability of a souls game and it's combat mechanic. I think they balanced poise just right - not too OP like in ds1 and actually existent unlike ds3. I also like how slow and punishing it was to estus in ds2. I have no idea why they made it so instanteous in ds3. If they kept the estus speed and invasion rules the same in ds3, it would have been so much more enjoyable.

However, the pve of the series is extremedy weAK compared to the rest of the series, there's no denying that. Still, if you see sotfs on sale and have never played ds2, I'd highly recommend you buy it. It's a steal.

>>382519243
Same

>>382529703
>Time is convoluted
Anyone who says this is retarded and doesn't pay attention to the lore
Time being convuluted is the canon explanation for why you can summon and be summoned.

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>>382528670
You can have couple different strains of arguments for different conditions, you can modify a template, but lot of the discussions ultimately boil down to same arguments. It's only efficient to not repeat same mundane tasks over and over again.