Is using cheap mechanics to win a game a legitimate strategy?

>>382324779
Yes

cheap mechanics is legitimate strategy. Deal with it.

>>382324779
whats a cheap mechanic?
the only thing there could be is something thats unbalanced, and if its unbalanced you would be dumb not to use it.
its the developers fault for not fixing it.

>>382324779
>using torb

Players shouldn't balance a game, that's the devs job.

SP or MP, it's only natural that you'd want to be efficent and play to win.

File: 1474936737599.jpg (344KB, 2000x2129px) Image search: [Google]

344KB, 2000x2129px

>Play a fighting game with someone.
>"dude stop using specials they're cheap"
>"dude stop using throws they're cheap"
>"dude stop using sweeps they're cheap"
>"dude stop blocking it's cheap"

>>382324779
Using the word "cheap" to describe a tactic in a game is a sign of weakness.

>>382324779
Yes, it's the developers fault for enabling these "cheap" mechanics.

I never really got it, for the same reason I don't get hacking.

What's the point of playing if you're being a little bitch to win.

>>382325178
hacking isnt a cheap mechanic

>>382324934
Something that requires little skill but is very effective compared to other tactics. I can't really think of any examples though.

use whatever tools you have to win as long as it's not cheating. i'm assuming you're talking about nade spam in cawadoody since this is the state of /v/ in 2017. let me tell you that cod has always had nade spawn spamming, even in the first game

>>382324934
The less effort it takes the cheaper it is.

>>382325439
>>382325282
if something is very effective and not hard to use, and the game doesnt offer anything that is hard to use but also has a bigger payoff, then the game is flawed and the devs need to fix that.

>>382324779
Did you fucking win?

If you complain about someone using a game mechanic to win, you're just bad.

>>382325543
It's only an "issue" when two things offer the same payoff but one is significantly easier, that's when people start crying that it's cheap and hurr durr.

>>382325178
>What's the point of playing if you're being a little bitch to win

"Maximum efficiency, minumum effort" is the true path for all great technique, tactics and skill anon. Keep it simple stupid.

>>382325543
The game is flawed because it has cheap tactics

>game has unforgiving difficulty
>can only succeed by cheesy tactics

What are some examples of cheap tactics?

>>382325834
Spamming prism tanks in RA2.

>>382325809
>what is shao khan fights in MK9

>>382325834
stall teams in competetive pokemon

>>382324779
>Stop being efficient! It's cheap!

>>382324779
a good game should not have any "cheap mechanics"

File: image.jpg (42KB, 518x335px) Image search: [Google]

42KB, 518x335px

>>382325439
Incorrect. The more efficient. People say "don't hate the player, hate the game." But i say, don't hate the game, because your're in it mate. Play the game, winning doesn't care how good ou are at that low percentage bullshit, because if it were effective, you would be winning. Short of actual CHEATING there is no "justice" in winning. There is winning or there is not.

>>382324779
>FRAGMENTATION grenade
>grenades function as miniature nukes
How come no game uses grenades as they should perform?

>>382324779
If its a legitimate mechanic, there is no reason to not use it. Just dont whine when its nerfed

>>382325834
Ranged weapons in action RPGs.

File: 1493621337086.png (120KB, 279x291px) Image search: [Google]

120KB, 279x291px

>game has large roster of interesting characters
>can only play two or three meta characters

File: 1485931755345.webm (1MB, 640x360px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 640x360px

>"d00d omg wtf u can't do that"
>"no honor"!

Fuck 'em.

File: 1488249301159.png (319KB, 370x698px) Image search: [Google]

319KB, 370x698px

>>382326120
>play lowtier joke character
>can surprisingly clean house with him
>others get mad cuz "hes not a real character"

>>382325996
One of the more famous grenades, the M67 (the iconic US sphere grenade) has a casualty radius of 15m/49feet in real life. casuality != instantly fatal, but it will incapacitate anyone in that range not in cover with life threatening injuries.

Note that in games like call of duty, most engagements take place in the sub-25m range, and you'll quickly figure out why the devs going for a quasi-realistic explosion radius was a no-no.

File: Walk.gif (7KB, 80x160px) Image search: [Google]

7KB, 80x160px

>>382326120
>learn character nobody uses
>get wins due to skill and because nobody is used to the matchup

>>382326236
>use cheap OP tactics pending nerf
>i won because i was the more skilled player
lmao at ur lyfe

File: image.jpg (357KB, 1063x768px) Image search: [Google]

357KB, 1063x768px

>>382326236
This. It's akin to those black dudes who get into fights on camera to be in world star. They fight a white or mexican dude and they get into a shitty boxing stance and then when the white guy starts throwing low kicks or starts grappling of any kind, the boxing black guy has the gonads to start shouting:

>"EY MAN, THIS IS GONNA BE A STREET FIGHT ONLY, STREET FIGHT ONLY!"
>"HEY HEY! WHY IS HE WRESTLING HIM TO THE FLOOR STAND THEM UP!"
>"EY! WHY IS HE CHOKING HIM OUT DAWG?! WHAT IS THIS PUSSY TACTIC SHIET MANG?!

Literally causes me to rage. Stop being shit at fighting like hero money Mayweather and git gud holy shit.

>>382324779
It is but it's still faggy and often kills games.
Look at Injustice 2's annoying as fuck zone characters such as deadshot. They kill the spirit of the game and aren't fun for either party to deal with.

>>382326402
You always get beat by the thing you never saw coming. The thing you don't know about yet. This is true of most things.

>>382326526
>i won

Should have just stopped there anon, because that's all that matters. The W. Cheating is the one thing i don't agree with however.

>>382326749
>winning matters more than having fun
depressing

>>382326902
Winning IS fun anon.

spinning in chivalry is a legitimate mechanic

>>382326357
And I love that shit. Stalker had actual fragmentation grenades, as I learned the hard way. Games like Battlefield and Red Orchestra where the map easily spans 200 meters have no excuses.

>>382326959
its not that winning is fun, it's just that losing isn't fun.

>>382326959
>playing casual game of smash bros brawl with friends
>plays metaknight and trashes the fuck out of them
>noone wants to play anymore
this is you

File: 1494743180616.jpg (50KB, 640x480px) Image search: [Google]

50KB, 640x480px

PLAY
TO
WIN

everything short of cheating is a legitimate strategy.

Wall bouncing in gears of war

>>382327229
>play to win

>winning by abusing exploits = spamming the same move over and over because it stunlocks or is simple to perform

>winning how the game expects you to = performing frame perfect timings and utilising inventive combinations of skills or equipment to succeed

So many games are actually ruined when it gets watered down to 1 weapon, 1 character, 1 ability and everything else puts you at a major disadvantage and is therefore not fun. Exploit play is just for virgin autists who can't win at real life and such a strategy just encapsulates the shitty kind of human being they are

Thank god I only buy physical so when this shit happens, the game goes straight back to the shop

>>382327123
Correct.

>>382325834
Waiting out the clock

>>382326402
I'm ashamed to admit I played LoL but that was me Poppy top

>>382327130
>being so autistic you can't make exceptions for friends locally that you would not make for a bunch of literally who's online

Nice false equivelency anon. Im better than my pals at Tekken, so i tend to not always pick my main or i would fucking rek them. Even if you aren't "cheap" and have more skill then you friends you are still sand bagging on them so you have to play nice anyway. Your point is moot.

>>382324934
Like using pyromancy in dark souls.

>>382327675
>only plays OP character which is banned from pro play online
>feels fulfilled
better?

File: image.gif (2MB, 450x273px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 450x273px

>>382327518
>Exploit play is just for virgin autists who can't win at real life

Holy shit kid, you have never competed in anything in your life have you? EXPLOIT THOSE WEAKNESSES. ALWAYS. Or don't. And be a super cool guy that loses based on some weak principle of muh honorobu. Of you are playing by the rules, that is honor enough.

File: jackal.png (322KB, 491x335px) Image search: [Google]

322KB, 491x335px

>>382324779

>>382327810
>playing a game so broken and not meant for actual competitive play that they have to ban your ass

The problem is then the game for sure anon. Stop bringing up party games when talking about balance.

>>382327937
Why is there no Dynamite tossing fighting style in fighting games?

File: 1496926426891.jpg (35KB, 414x310px) Image search: [Google]

35KB, 414x310px

I simply dont understand how people find it ___fun___ to tier whore. 100% of the time id rather play a character or use a strat that i like over easy wins

>>382327878

MORE

>>382325015
You gotta admit juggling is pretty cheap. Everything else you said is fine.

File: ken.png (341KB, 502x334px) Image search: [Google]

341KB, 502x334px

>>382327972

>>382327960
it was an example, I only used it because it was a popular game and it is irrefutably unbalanced. You could apply the same principle to most games.

>>382327548
Reeeeee theres nothing wrong with playing league of legends and poppy used to be bae

>>382324779
If it works it works.
There's no discussion to be had here.

Players should use whatever means necessary to win and if something is unbalanced the onus is on the developers to balance shit as required.

But you can't fault the player base for exploiting shit when able.

>>382328170
unless you play tekken then they support juggling, fuckers even added a mini game to help people improve their juggle skills

>>382327123
If losing wasn't fun, you're playing bad games.

>>382324934
>>382325282
>>382325834

I figured OP's picture was referencing martyrdom perk from call of duty

Another thing this thread reminds me of is those faggots that would build protoss cannons right next to my base at the very beginning in starcraft 2. Glad I never touched that game ever again, was not fun at all.

Alright quick question
Is using the DMB (Dark Moon Blade) on a curved sword a Legitimate Strategy in Dark Souls 1 or even 3
>Its fair and Balanced

File: 1495225934041.png (241KB, 640x480px) Image search: [Google]

241KB, 640x480px

>>382328208
Think about Kenshiro, Dynamite Nunchucks. anti-air dyanmites

>>382328415
Dynamite nunchucks holy shit

It is legit but that doesn't make the person doing any less of an annoying cunt

>>382325391
>Grenade spam
>Call of Duty
No one even uses grenades anymore, at least not in IW

nothing is worse than players who lose a game and blame their failure on an overpowered weapon or exploit. Should've taken that into account.

How fun would games like Dark Souls be, if everything would be perfectly balanced and there would be no more room for experimentation and bizarre builds?

>>382327548
>>382328224

god she was such an ugly cunt with ugly skins but I loved playing her and pissing my team off because muh meta

was hilarious playing her as support and one shotting enemy supports but
>wahhh youre stealing muh farm

File: pizzabll.png (154KB, 453x429px) Image search: [Google]

154KB, 453x429px

>>382327716
>mfw I played Pyromancer on release and it was my first souls game
>mfw I breeze through things people have legitimate trouble with because I did not realize just how much damage I was doing and what iron flesh did exactly
to be fair, I ran through Demon Souls later in life as fluted knight to show that I could play without training wheels

File: 1454794101338.jpg (190KB, 1011x663px) Image search: [Google]

190KB, 1011x663px

I used to get so much shit online for using the High Powered Pistol in RDR. Why would I limit myself with inferior weapons?

>>382328540
>How fun would games like Dark Souls be, if everything would be perfectly balanced and there would be no more room for experimentation and bizarre builds?

If everything were perfectly balanced then it would be as you described, but as it is people just spam estoc and other stupid OP meme builds

>>382328690
>ugly
Stop triggering me you filthy fucking riven main

>>382328812

I quit before riven even came out

>>382328930
come back its fun
just mute chat

>>382328789
>adjusting volume before turning it on
how fucking dumb was the creator of this image?

File: DDknk7vU0AAF9wj.jpg orig.jpg (242KB, 1920x1080px) Image search: [Google]

242KB, 1920x1080px

>>382328472
It's been done.

>>382325282
Like that three-button stun-lock combo in DBZ Budokai Tenkaichi 2 you can use to win against anyone? I'd call it a bug, but Legendary Super Saiyan Brolly uses it on you in story mode (even on the easy difficulty) so maybe it's a feature.

File: shadowofgameplay.jpg (541KB, 1920x1200px) Image search: [Google]

541KB, 1920x1200px

>>382324779

>>382325630
This.

>>382325834
Jins freeze throw in Blazeblue, only played the early first one so I don't know if it's changed. Hard to counter on a laggy online match.

>>382325015
Anyone who says that is scrub tier.

You learn how to counter it then move on.

>>382324779
Cheap mechanics are the developers fault, not the player

File: image.gif (736KB, 480x270px) Image search: [Google]

736KB, 480x270px

>>382328105
I guess? What exactly is it you want MOAR of?

File: grin.png (572KB, 600x580px) Image search: [Google]

572KB, 600x580px

>>382326334
lmao i remember a bunch of years ago i was destroying this guy with the soda popper on tf2, this weapon which everyone fucking despised but was completely fucking OP in my eyes and he kept screaming at his mic that i had to equip a real scattergun and that the soda popper was a shitty gun

i sodda-popped a cap in his stupid ass

>>382329849
Won't she crush her own hand in that move?

File: 1494811148473.gif (2MB, 254x225px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 254x225px

>>382329849

loli wrestling

File: 1495911839125.jpg (5KB, 114x114px) Image search: [Google]

5KB, 114x114px

>>382324779
Yes and no

Yes if the cheap mechanics are realistic and intended (ex. Any drones, noobtubes, vehicles & mines in an fps game)

Also yes if everyone knows about them and has access to use them in an equal standing (ex. games that don't hide said cheap mechanics behind a paywall)

No if the cheap mechanics are done by abusing exploits, bugs and or bad design elements (ex. breaking the rules of the game by playing in an obviously unintended way)

No if the the cheap mechanics literally give your opponent zero chance or you have an unfair advantage that they didn't event know existed. (ex. Hacks, ultra-low graphics thatr let you see things clearly when you shouldn't.PVP ambushing noobs in starting areas of mmo games)

>>382330063
cheating bitch

File: 1491903858701.webm (3MB, 1280x720px) Image search: [Google]

3MB, 1280x720px

>>382330185

she was just using cheap mechanics

>>382330254
What anime.

>>382330254
anime?

>>382324779
>legitimate strategy?
Why not? If it's mechanic within the game, can be done by everyone and can be used to everyone, then it's a fair game. People can use cheap shit to kick you ass and you can do the same to them.

>>382330325
>he not watching AOTS when it air

>>382324779
It's a legitimate strategy, it's just boring.

>>382325996
Duck Game

>>382328170
no

>>382330185
Yea he got what he deserved.

>>382330842
yes

>>382330057
Not really. Its hooked under the armpit and around the upper shoulder, she wont really feel any impact at all, and removing her hand is easy enough, just lever his shoulder up. She is Olyimpic tier, she knows what she is doing. Be more concerned about the poor guys floating rib, she used them to break her fall, that would be painful as fuck. Speaking from experince here.

File: image.gif (2MB, 480x270px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 480x270px

>>382330185
>cheating

No. See >>382326621 entire point.

She is actually doing a fantastic job of technically dominating him with skill. Thats how you win a fight and someone has taught her to do that, thats calculated not sloppy. Don't assume because of the gloves they are only boxing. Someone has taught that kid basic MMA skills.

>>382325282
Noobtube in BLOPs. Rocket launcher that 1 shots people if you land it within 5 feet of them. You don't even have to hit the guy.

>>382325834
scatter arrows

>>382330573
>he replies but doesn't give sauce

>It's a "The guy obsessed with that one gook bitch posts all his pictures again" episode.

At least get some new ones, my man.

File: IMG_8090.jpg (93KB, 453x439px) Image search: [Google]

93KB, 453x439px

>game has a fuckton of weapons you can use
>there is literally only one that is viable
>shitters argue the game is balanced because everyone is using the same loadout

File: image.jpg (63KB, 543x530px) Image search: [Google]

63KB, 543x530px

>>382331342
>post new ones

Alrighty.

File: 1487043610640.png (308KB, 492x419px) Image search: [Google]

308KB, 492x419px

>>382330939
>he's too lazy to learn his own character's combos so he calls it cheap

>>382326357
Yeah, it's real amusing when people say "it's so realistic".
Shotguns that lose all accuracy after 10 feet (actually accurate out to 50 yards) are the worst offenders, though.

>>382331518
The only reason I'm refusing to learn the juggling combos is because I'd hate myself for being that cheap.
I'm well aware that this puts me at a vast disadvantage, but I'd rather wreck my opponent through actual skill than just watch a youtube video on what input string to use to make sure the enemy can never move.

>>382328397
Yes, because you can just turtle it

>>382331473
Thank you.
Having to always see the same images irks my autism.

>>382331738
Use the juggling combo to set up more interesting combos, or to break people in round 2 or 3 when they're just cheapshotting you all day.
Back in Soul Cal 2, I'd hit them with a juggle and then go into those crazy long 9+ input abilities that are crazy cool looking.

File: 1475725944489.jpg (33KB, 459x462px) Image search: [Google]

33KB, 459x462px

>>382331738
>capitalizing on an opponent's mistake to the fullest potential
>not part of the game's skill
>knowing the difference between wall carry combos, wall combos, and max damage midscreen combos, knowing when to use each one, and being able to execute each on the fly
>not skillful
Just admit that you're too lazy to actually learn the game

File: image.jpg (47KB, 640x480px) Image search: [Google]

47KB, 640x480px

>>382331867
I really think she is gonna be someone at the next olympics and she has good looks. Like a real life Makoto or Yawara. I hope she becomes a big star.

File: 170609_gashaconbugvisors_11_pc.jpg (439KB, 712x950px) Image search: [Google]

439KB, 712x950px

>call something cheap
>doesn't get good enough to outplay those "cheap tactics"
You're just mad your bad.

>>382331165
>Someone has taught that kid basic MMA skills.
>kicking someone to the ground and punching them in the head
lol are you joking right now, friend.

>>382334096
>kick to the mid section
>it's actually a headstrike that lands him
>she passess his guard
>he simply turtles up
>takes technical mount
>strikes the most exposed part of his turtled defense

So yes actually. Nice to see you have bo idea what you are talking about though. Got to be a normie at something i suppose.

>game is competetive
>has imbalanced shit
Is there any perfectly balanced competetive video game?

>>382334416
>bo idea
lol, you're just an idiot. I bet I could kill you in a fight :^)

>>382335210
Real Life competition isn't. Even in our closest aproximation to a game "sports" there are variables involved. As "competitive" as gamers are, i actually think they are a response to the continuing nerfing of societey. Thry can't hack the idea of "cheap" or "variables they can't beat by drilling paterns over and over again."

Competitive gaming does SOMETIMES have human flaw variables and such, but it still sets out on the basis that you can learn a sure fire way to win with inputs and only lose because "of lag and cheap shit" video game competition is Nerfed competition imo. It's competition under lab conditions if you get me.

>>382335210
Street Fighter 1

>>382335627
>im pretty sure i could fight a bear bro

Cool.

>>382326236

Sauce?

File: 9236721.png (292KB, 371x332px) Image search: [Google]

292KB, 371x332px

>>382331738
>can't do a combo
>I'd rather have actual skill
hit confirming and nailing your combo execution takes skill dumbdumb

it's pretty clear someone with your mentality doesn't have any 'actual skill' anyway

>>382325834
Spamming fireballs or bisons roundhouse in SF4.

Legit strats but people cry about it becaues they can't figure out how to beat it.

At the end of the match whoever got "you win" played better, since they won.

>>382335692
lol dont be a bitch just because you're a dyel who watches people fight all day

>>382326357

The same reason flamethrowers can't be OP. Or shotguns can't fire beyond 2 meters in video games.

>>382324779
If it's in the game it's fair
If the game isn't any fun to play when people use those tactics it's a bad game

File: image.gif (2MB, 350x215px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 350x215px

>>382335876
Ey i lift too mang, but that ain't enough so i have to martial art too for the physical altercations in my mind that are probably never going to happen to me.

>>382327878
>>382329849
Fuck thats cool. It's like that episode of attack on titan with eren and the armored titan

File: image.gif (825KB, 384x288px) Image search: [Google]

825KB, 384x288px

>>382336306
Don't know about that titan stuff anon, but you could do this stuff too! Go check for local Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu and Judo clubs in your area.

>>382336142
lol watching people work out and fight isn't the same as doing it yourself, kid

File: image.jpg (77KB, 1200x675px) Image search: [Google]

77KB, 1200x675px

>>382336720

>>382336829
>reaction image
lol point proven, enjoy watching your fighting videos. it'll help when someone actually fights you ;^) maybe

If winning with "cheap" mechanics was that easy, YOU WOULD DO IT.

>>382325178
its literally fucking natural u cunt

u cam be mad because its unbalanced but dont blame the players blame the devs

>>382336987
but I don't want to be cheap like you, anon. I'm sorry you don't have any integrity.

>>382336925
Anyways, what do you practice anon? Any competition in what you do?

>>382336925
>>382336720
>>382335876
>>382335627
>>382334096
cringe. gas yourself normalfag

>>382337407
>>382337558
lol, fagboats

>>382334096
>lol
>>382335627
>lol
>>382335876
>lol
>>382336720
>lol
>>382336925
>lol

File: Villager.jpg (13KB, 67x88px) Image search: [Google]

13KB, 67x88px

>>382325834
In Age of Empires II, they practically call it laming. Generally it's shit like stealing or slaying your opponent's food sources (herd and some wild animals) on their side of the map or walling up their resources. Some people don't do it out of sportsmanship but obviously in tournament matches people are much more ruthless about it to get the upper hand. Like this guy getting two of his opponent's villagers killed in the Dark Age.

https://youtu.be/wwwU0kjFOEg?t=38s

As for some actual tactics though? A cheap thing to do is the Persian Douche, where a player using the eponymous civilization destroys their town center and rebuilds it next to the enemy's while they're both still in the Dark Age. The Persian player then loads their TC up with villagers to keep firing arrows at the enemy's own vills or TC because the Persians get double the base HP on theirs, so they can abuse this to potentially win. The caveat is that this pretty much largely compromises their economy, so the other player could work around it depending on how bad he has it.

Slinging resources to teammates in team games is also a very powerful strategy, even in tournaments it's sometimes banned and tributing made more restrictive, sometimes with a mod.

>>382338201
lol

>this entire thread
educate yourselves

http://www.sirlin.net/ptw-book/introducingthe-scrub

>>382338071
I was being serious, he implied he trained in something.

A win is a win you can't say it's only half.

>>382325282
Wobbles.

>>382339239
lol i train in breaking your face, pussy

>>382339352
fuck you Henry you're always stirring up some shit

>>382339519
D:

>>382324779
So long as my enemies die sure.

t.stickydemo

>>382324779
The good and bad of cheap mechanics
>Good
Fireball spam, grapples (if breakable), and other shit that can be overcome by just being better at the game. If it shits on scrub newbies who don't know any better, then so be it.

>Bad
Actual broken mechanics, such as exploits (that aren't embraced by the community as a whole like K-style was with GunZ or just about any advanced technique in Melee) that take advantage of the game just being poorly made. For example, head glitching in Call of Duty games. If you didn't know, in a majority of Call of Duty games, when you fire, the bullet doesn't come from your character's gun, but rather from the top of their head/scalp. So you could stand behind a box that was juuuust tall enough to cover almost all of your player model/hitbox, but still allowed you to see. That way you could use the box as cover but still shoot everyone in front of you just fine.

Another example of bad use of cheap mechanics is something that you HAVE to do in order to win/stay competitive. Imagine if something is discovered and it becomes the meta not because of memery but sheer effectiveness. There is a singular (1) gun, strategy, path, build, or whatever else that is just plain better. Now the whole game devolves into this, and it's not hard to see why people would call it cheap, and whether its the truth or not, it quickly becomes a matter of 'play like this or lose.' If it ever reaches that point, then shit has gone south and you would be better off playing some other vidya instead.

>>382325834
Cheating.
That's literally it.