Is this accurate?

Considering ludo-narrative is a completely misunderstood up phrase that people just assign arbitrary definitions to, no. It's never accurate.

Souls - No
Zelda - No
Mario - No
Arkane - No
Hollow Knight - No

You fundamentally do not understand the term "Ludo"

>>382283308
This has nothing to do with ludo-narrative dissonance... you can leave my thread now....

>>382283508
You're welcome to describe the arbitrary definition you've ascribed to "ludo" in this case then, but then you'd have to acknowledge that you're doing exactly what I accused you of.

>>382283508
So what the fuck does the term ludo mean faggot? Don't come around here making up shit and expecting to be understood

>>382283203
>dishonored
some one post that video of the guy desesperatly hiding under a small table

>>382283690
Ludo is to games as kino is to movies.

>>382283690
Ludo-narrative refers to when a games gameplay and narrative contradict eachother I believe. OP is still a dumb fuck though.

>>382283818
No it isn't.

>>382283818

Oh fuckoff mino has no meaning and has had one in a long time don't be ridiculous get out

>>382283674
Honestly, I feel sorry for you; I really do. I was once like you, blind and hairless. Then I stopped played Dota and League of Legends, and started playing Ludo games... and I became a fully realized man.

>ludo
Oh boy, I can't wait for an unfunny revamped "kino" meme.

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>>382283943
What does ludo mean, transcendent one?

>>382283950
If you're not going to say anything nice, then don't say anything at all. The door's over there -- you're not welcome in this community if you don't behave maturely.

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>>382283690
Ludo is a game about getting all four pieces around the board.

>>382283395
well I think you are autistic.

>>382283820
Incorrect. Ludonarrative dissonance is the term you're looking for.

>>382283818
Kino makes sense because high art film circlejerks prefer german cinema over almost all other cinema.

Ludo sounds forced

>>382284014
How can I explain it? It's like explaining the ocean to someone who has never even seen a pool of water. Log out of your account, unplug your internet line, turn out the lights, and play "Braid", "Bastion", and "The Witness". You'll come to understand what Ludo is.

>>382284030
I'm sorry, mom.

>>382283203
I love all these games but have no clue what youre trying to say by comparing them
They all focus on gameplay?

>>382284092
You mean Sorry?

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>>382283308
No-one mentioned narrative.

It seems you don't understand the distinct meanings of each half of that compound, anon.

Perhaps you should refrain from discussion until you develop a foundational understanding of the relevant lexicon.

>>382283508
>l-leave please! Don't argue with me!

Someone post it

>>382284123
In other words you chopped it up and assigned a meaning to a word to force a meme? Kys reddit fuck

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>>382284170

>>382284178
It's okay honey. I know you've been stressed out by school and your girlfriend breaking up with you recently. Mommy's always here to help you feel better.

>>382283203
I like all these games, what does the label you've given them mean? can I use this label to find similar games?

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>>382284170

>>382283203
>Ludo

Stop forcing your nigger speak. Talk like a human or don't even bother.

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>>382284170

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>>382283395
You seem to fundementally misunderstand the term, in actuality.

Ludo refers to gameplay.

These games represent those at the pinnacle of gameplay in modern vidya.

They are indeed ludo-core. (built foremost around gameplay).

>>382284242
You're welcome to educate everyone in the thread. If it's so simple it should be easy.

>>382284170
That's what I thought, shitposting cunt.

For a game to be "ludo", in my mind, would have to embody the essence of what makes great gameplay. prioritizing above all else, a throughly developed understanding of its own mechanics, how these interact with eachother and the player and what makes the game engaging to play.
ludo understands that gameplay is by far the most important aspect in a videogame, and that graphics, artstyle, music, sound design and above all story (which is a trap many developers fall for) should only be pursued if it would in any way enhance the gamplay experience.

in that regard
DS - Yes
BotW - No
Mario Galaxy - Yes
Dishonored - Absolutely not
HK - Yes

>>382284485
Aaaannd you lost me since Dishonored is trash.

>>382284485
Incorrect. You even betrayed it in your own words.
>gameplay
This is mere button pushing. Nothing compares to true ludoplay.

bloodborne instead of dark souls

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>>382284334
m-mom no

>>382283203
How many levels of irony was this image made on.

>>382284170
>Braid
Ok, I can kinda see it
>Bastion
Controversial choice, but whatever
>The Witness
Confirmed for extra chromosomes

>>382284736
What are your Top Three Ludos then?

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>>382284560
>>382284563

>the facts of reality don't align with my resentful fantasy

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>>382284334
>Stressed out by school.
>It's summer

>>382284820
Did you not go to summer school as a boy?

>>382284545
Ludo refers to gameplay

Narrative refers to story

Simple enough, friendo?

>>382284857
I passed all my classes the first time so I never had to.

>>382284873
You keep using the word refer. This does not define. It refers. You need to tell me how it refers in order for your definition to mean anything. You can't just use buzzwords willy nilly. You need to understand them.

>>382284592
>implying theyre not the same

I will state this plainly, and straightforwardly - Japanese games cannot be ludo.

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>>382284334
>Mommy's always here to help you feel better

>>382284775
Probablly:
>Tetris
Timeless game, simple to understand, can get to playing in absolutely no time, a decently high skill ceiling, complex enough that it can't be made in an analog setting (take civilization, that can easily be a boardgame)

>Monster Hunter 4U
Simple premise (kill monsters, create bigger weapons, to kill bigger monsters), minimal story, and interesting internal systems that force you to familiarize with the hunt or else you will not progress with the game. Fast paced, extremely high skill ceiling.

>Tossup between Bloodborne: Old Hunters and Dark Souls PtDE
No need to explain this one.

>>382285093
I agree, they cannot be something that does not exist.

>>382285247
>no need to explain
please do

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>>382284545
>You're welcome to educate everyone in the thread. If it's so simple it should be easy.
Not that anon, but okay.
Ludo-narrative dissonance is defined by a clash between a game's story and its mechanics, such as if a game's story insisted that you are a righteous hero of the people while also giving you Smokin' Sick Style points for murdering every civilian you meet on the street.

There. Nice and simple.

>>382285093
Then Western triple-A fps are?

>>382284776
>he thinks dishonored is the pinnacle of anything

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>>382284820
>tfw taking 2 programming classes, a physics class, an engineering class, and a humanities elective over summer to finish degree in four years

>tfw it's actually easy because already know Java and C++, Statics is just Newton's 1st Law on steroids, and all Humanities classes are easymode

>tfw physics is leaving my asshole pretty sore anyhow because of all the multidimensional, multivariable calculus involved in deriving some modern physics concepts

>>382284975
Ludo is Latin, it means play.

Modern English speakers use it to mean gameplay, in homage to a board game called ludo.

Therefore I use refer.

I didn't want to go into this much detail, because retards tend not to have the necessary attention span, nor the cognitive competence to handle this modicum of complexity.

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>>382284170
What a faggot.

>>382285247
Also of consideration: Mario Galaxy 2, Portal 1, The Talos Principle, Aria of Sorrow, ICO, Bayonetta, Dwarf Fortress with Lazy Newb Pack (this is one of the instances where SOME graphics enhance the gameplay), Starcraft, and, believe it or not, League of Legends.

>>382285408
Some of the same reasons for MH4. Fair difficulty, even if we agree on some flawed points (that dragon, bed of chaos are the only ones i consider absolutely unforgivable), deep systems, interesting level design, good difficulty curve, etc.

>>382285778
Don't call me that...

>>382285551
Which, unsurprisingly, has nothing to do with anything.

>>382285634
You still have not defined it. You've just further convinced me that your definition is completely subjective as I stated in my very first post >>382283308.

>>382285852
Not that dude, but if we can all agree that a story should only be there if it enhances the gameplay, it could easily follow that a story that makes the player feel disconected from the gameplay goes against the "ludo" ideal.

>>382285963
not him but are you retarded cunt?
>Ludo is Latin, it means play.
you're just plain wrong and can't accept it.

>>382286004
All story or narrative that exists beyond the control of the player goes against the ludo ideal because any concept that removes interaction, focus, or takes control away from the player in any fashion is a detriment to the gameplay. How strong this effect is changes, but there is always a cost. The more story driven a game is, the less interactive it is; with a complete movie being the least interactive and the least like a game. Using strict logic the best games from a gameplay perspective would have no story or narrative at all.

>>382286245
Which is meaningless without context. You need to define it. Insisting ludo can be used interchangeably with play is insufficient because otherwise you would just use the word play instead.

>>382284334
>girlfriend
lost

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>>382285963
>immediately proving my point about retards.

>>382286396
>he's never lied to his mom about having a girlfriend

- Fallout 4
- Skyrim
- Fallout 4 VR
Limitless possibilities, unlimited creativity - this is Ludo

>>382286364
the context is in the op or would you like me to spell it out for you?

ludo-core
play-core, whatever the fuck that means, point is given the ops pic you have plenty of context.
>because otherwise you would just use the word play instead.
you know whats really retarded? you know how movies use roman numerals in the credits?
why don't they just say what year it is!

>>382285618
Bone up on your math fundamentals anon, read a good book like Apostol, It helps. :)

>>382286278
I like how you think, and I tend to agree with you, but I also think that pacing is a thing, and bombarding the player with 100% intensity gameplay all the time again is kinda bad. If the "down" time is spent with some sort of interactive and optional storytelling, I wouldn't mind I think.

Story in the way of Hollow Knight, Dark Souls, that is, entirely optional, mostly done through enviromental clues, and not in the way of gameplay, that's pretty great as well.

I'm thinking this as I go, sorry if i sound kind of inconsistent, I'm also kinda drunk.

>>382283203
Breath of the Wild is more an example of ludonarrative dissonance, I think, because here's Ganon, you can take care of him now, at least as soon as possible, but the point of the game is literally to not do that, and "take it all in" to the point Ganon is an afterthought to the player

Needs MGSV

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>>382283203
>It's a hollow knight shill thread again

>Interesting topic
>plenty of room for discussion
>like two/three people talking seriously
>RPers, blatant bait posts, frogposters, general retardation.
>thread is in page 5

cmon dudes, this is kinda sad.

>>382286939
>bombarding the player with 100% intensity gameplay all the time again is kinda bad
You misunderstand control. The player being in control of the pace is ideal. The game deciding when the player should be taking breaks goes against the concept of ideal gameplay. A player should be able to dive into the ocean or sip through a straw at his or her discretion. Narration on rails makes the game more like a movie. Scripted intermissions makes the game more like a movie. Unnecessary delays makes the game less like a game. Slowing players down as a device to expose them to something the developers want to show them takes away from the gameplay, because what the developers invariably want to show them is not interactive.

On a spectrum of devices there's 2 points. Unskippable cutscenes on the left, and skippable cutscenes on the right. The further left you go, the less gameplay matters. The further right you go, the more gameplay matters. On the far left is a movie. On the far right is the ideal ludo.

>>382283203
wtf is ludo core

>>382287626
Gameplay is at the core of design.

>>382283203
>dishonored
No, it's a systems driven game that interacts poorly with its narrative
>SMG
I think the narrative and gameplay are fairly indifferent to one another.
>DS
Half-half, perhaps early on when you don't understand the franchise, but when you add in grinding for rare drops, min-maxing, and generally all of the gaminess it becomes fairly dissonant.
>BotW
Meh
>Hollow knight
Probably closest, including the grind, but not the best example of a 'ludo' metroidvania.

>>382287584
yeah, i guess that's pretty good, i think you are right.
i was thinking about the opening train scene (and kind of all the black mesa intro) of half life 1. I think it could have been pulled better, but kind of "forcing" the player to go through a "slow and everyday-like" section, helps build the character of gordon freeman, your helpless scientist, unwillingly charged with saving the world, which in turn, if can make you, the player, feel more empowered when you (a helpless scientist) manage to get through the hazards. and conveying a feeling through gameplay is pretty fucking ludo.
i also think stripping the player of control is a powerful tool as well, in particular i'm thinking of makign the player stop when drinking a potion in monster hunter. an extremely tense moment. i think sometimes a well directed moment of no control can be as strong as a well placed silence in a musical piece.

again, sorry for the scattered thoughts.

>>382283818
This; it's kinda new. I'd say it's a trully good game with depth .

>>382284092
Fuck, right in the nostalgia.

>>382288770
Ludostalgia

What does "Ludo" even mean? every time I've seen people describe it they just use a bunch of vague empty terms.

Words that are not defined well are essentially meaningless because each person will see as something else, as a result ideas are not shared.

>>382288948
cmon dude, just read up the thread, start in
>>382284550

>>382283950
Fuck, you dumb cunt, it's just "pretty good gameplay and story" you can add "with a fine ost and art" also "having depth" but overall it's just another word for "masterpiece" without sounding exagerated and being specific for this medium (vidya).

>>382289031
>post just describes how someone defines the word "in his mind"

You're not acknowledging the fucking problem here. No one agrees on what the word means because it's bullshit.

>>382289161
I mean, it's pretty obvious that it means "the pinacle of videogames" or "an extremely high quality videogame", and if you read like 3 posts, you would see that we're pretty much trying to reach a consencus of what that means.
I dont think anyone in this thread thinks the actual word is what's important.

>>382289161
It means good gameplay you dip

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>>382288052
>>BotW
>Meh

Fucks sake people: ludo is the vidya equivalent of movies' kino, it can be interpreted as "healthy fun", but by the equivallency it would mean a pretty much a very good (objectively and usually consensual) game that's is meant to be thoughtfully appreciated.

>>382283203
>Galaxy 1 over Galaxy 2
Nope.
Galaxy 2 has achieved what no other 3D platformer has and that is pure incandescent unadulterated ludo.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HtHiVa5kg6E

>>382289572
It's just one more mediocre open world APRG, it's excellent in the same sense TW3 was excellent. And in a year or two /v/ will think it's trash.

>>382289662
you sound butthurt

>>382289758
Nope, just emulated it for a while.

>>382283203
I don't really see how Dishonored is any more intelligent than stuff like Doom and Wolfenstein. Why was this game picked in particular?

>>382289815
well there's your problem.

>>382289905
Nah it isn't. It's just an average game. Tried it on a friend's switch and the inconsistent framerates were godawful.

>>382283203
Does it matter if the gameplay is good or not? If its just games that focus on gameplay I guess that image is alright.

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>>382290082
pretty sure the frame rates on CEMU are worse than the patched game now lol

>>382290143
It's CPU bound, but basically they're OK so long as you're not on a potato and load the game onto a RAMdisk. They were a lot better than on the Switch, and the game ran at a high enough res to get rid of jaggies.

In any case, doesn't change that the gameplay was underwhelming and dull.

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>>382289758
>playing bad games now means they're butthurt

>>382290260
>In any case, doesn't change that the gameplay was underwhelming and dull.
>low framerates can't make games dull

go play dmc3 at 0.1 speed and tell me how much fun you are having

>>382288052
>grind
m8...

>>382290453
As I said earlier, framerates on CEMU are fine if you don't have a potato PC. They're 25+ and usually lock to 30. Although I agree there's an issue that BotW locks to 30 in the first place. The game would feel a lot smoother if it ran at 60fps.

>>382290673
>The game would feel a lot smoother if it ran at 60fps.
It would feel even smoother if it ran at 120 FPS.

>>382290729
Somewhat, I do think there's a perceivable difference between 60 and 120 (ending somewhere north of 90fps) when you're playing arena shooters like quake, but otherwise I couldn't give a toss above locked 60.

>>382284485
i love dark souls and wanked it as good gameplay
but when you think about its actual shit
ds only actual redeeming trait is its world design for the first half

>>382285615
>he doesn't

>>382289662
I wouldn't quite call it a 10/10 masterpiece personally, but you're definitely underselling it (probably in an effort to fit in with the pessimism of this board). For perspective, TW3's devs heavily praised BotW* and its approach to open world, so keep that in mind.

*source:
http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2017-06-05-how-will-the-legend-of-zelda-breath-of-the-wild-change-the-open-world-paradigm

>>382292107
I can't say I like TW3 all that much. The board isn't pessimistic, it's just very very familiar with game genres. There's a point where you know each element of each game before trying it, because you understand how it will work from a gameplay perspective. As open world RPGs are driven by systems rather than bespoke design this is especially apparent when playing them.

It's the same reason why /v/ no longer likes any MMOs. To an extent why it doesn't like RTS all that much anymore either (bearing in mind there was a time when this board was entirely dominated by SC and SC2).

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>>382289662
>it's excellent in the same sense TW3 was excellent
This doesn't even make sense, the focuses of each game are completely different from one another. Breath of the Wild is ludo whereas Witcher 3 is liber.
Breath of the Wild is entirely about the world and the copious amount of ways that you can use all the games systems to interact with the world giving unique to solutions to any problem you come across in the game whereas Witcher 3 is all about the world building, story and characters.

>>382292458
Well, having played a few ARPGs I would say BotW feels fairly different, mainly because it has a physics engine that actually works well for once instead of being a janky ragdoll mess - this is used very effectively as well for combat and puzzles rather than being in there for no particular purpose like with many other games. Also, BotW actually has some decent level design; sure, it could use more of it as there are areas where the world feels bland/empty, but it fairs significantly better than other open world games in this regard: especially when it comes to secrets and problem-solving/puzzles in the world.
>It's the same reason why /v/ no longer likes any MMOs.
this isn't particularly relevant to the discussion, but it should be pointed out that (contrary to popular belief) /v/ is not one person. Different anons have different tastes on this board, if they didn't then we wouldn't argue all the bloody time. Maybe your point here is that the general consensus agrees on it, but even then I don't think you're right there: opinion on BotW specifically seems fairly split, with some shitting on it relentlessly and others praising it and putting it on a pedestal.

bump for true ludo