Why are RNG hell "games" so popular?

>>382266567
Git gud. Simple.

People like gambling, and these games tend to be chock-full of gambles

RNG hell games are popular because it provides challenge in an interesting and unpredictable way that revolves around you making decisions to minimize risk and maximize reward
I would consider a game like FTL to be an "RNG hell game", however XCOM 2 is not, git gud scrub

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>>382266567
>Xcom 2
>RNG

>>382266567
because the further away you are from the target less likely you are to hit it

tfw when i fell for the poker meme, the ultimate rng hell game

>>382266567
>They can't into risk management
Being retarded must suck

>>382267638

Risk management is not a skill. Outside of the very simple understanding of how one number can be bigger than another number when talking about Xcom. If you want to say that's "skill" then sure but there have been studies done on the difficulty of tasks for decades and that has got to be somewhere at the very bottom.

>>382267914
>Risk management is not a skill
Trying to justify being retarded must suck

>>382267914
>Risk management is not a skill
WEW
LAD

>>382268001

It's not surprising you have literally nothing to back up your asspull claim. Risk management is not a skill anymore than simple addition is.

>>382268108

prove that it is. I'll break both of your points down piece by piece until theres nothing left but for you to post anime pictures.

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>>382267914
>Risk management is not a skill

are you trying to page that faggot with the gay mods?

>>382268193
if we're talking about Nu XCOM, than sure rish managment isn't really a skill but in the old X-COMs risk management was absolutely a skill with smoke grenades and high explosives.

>>382268280
>prove that it is
some people are literally paid six figs salaries to do risk management

>>382268361

I'm saying risk management is not a skill period. Prove to me that it is a skill please.

>>382266936

>it provides challenge in an interesting and unpredictable way that revolves around you making decisions to minimize risk and maximize reward

This right here. The randomized elements mean that you're never assured victory, which makes for a more tense game that pulls you in harder. I never understand how this concept is so alien to people.

>>382266936
people do FTL hard mode streaks. you can "git gud" at that as well

same reason card and dice games are so popular you dumb

>>382267914
>Risk management is not a skill

Anon...

>>382266567

How does it feel to suck at such a piss easy game? I bet you couldn't even beat the game on legendary despite the utterly OP grenadier class.

>>382268373

That's a job title. I think you fail to understand what that job title entails. Nice try though. There is also a job position called pyrotechnic engineer, but that person is not a engineer or a fire mage.

The more you know.

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>>382266567
>"games"

>>382268496

>but that person is not a engineer

t. someone who has never done anything with fire more professional than a backyard bonfire

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>>382267914
>Risk management is not a skill.

are the performance problems in xcom 2 fixed yet?

>>382268590

I'm a chemist by trade. Nice try again. All you need to do is stop attacking me and prove your claim.

>>382268496
>That's a job title.
Wrong, the job title is generally audit manager or operational manager. Risk management is a skill that falls under it.

>pyrotechnic engineers are not engineers
mmh okay...
>fire mage
it's "pyrotechnic", not "pyromancy" you dumb pole

>>382266567
But XCOM2 is the easiest nu-xcom strictly because of the ability to bypass RNG hell via grenade and psi spam and bonkers shotgun accuracy bonuses

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>playing meme-coms
step aside breh

>>382268729
>Wrong, the job title is generally audit manager or operational manager. Risk management is a skill that falls under it.

Not wrong, it is literally called risk management in some companies, and that job entails a lot more than assessing risk. PhD google isn't doing anyone favors here.

>start the game
>first mission after tutorial
>put all guys in full cover
>shoot an alien
>miss
>other 3 guys on overwatch miss
>aliens kill 2 of my guys
shift del

>>382268396
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Risk_management
fag

>>382268840
>in some companies
"some", which means it's not a job title in others and yet they still call the task "risk management", which means what it says

>>382266567
In a game like X-Com, it simulates the chaotic kineticism of an actual firefight.

Think of it this way, when you're playing an FPS, when you twitch-aim and fire at a target, do you hit 100% of the time? No, of course not. And that's before factoring things like line of sight, distance, bi-lateral movement, and distraction.
Same thing, only instead of portraying those factors to inaccuracy as true to life, they simplify it as a percentage value.

You, in your X-com character's position, would likely only hit 75% of the shots you'd take in that situation, so your X-Com character has a 75% chance to hit in that situation.
The gameplay comes from minimizing missed shots, exactly as it would be in a game that represents those factors as true to life.

>>382268535
Should be called 95% hit chance

>>382268951
>https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Risk_management

Nice false equivalence. Are we going to say art is equivalent to engineering now?

Or that bachelors of art degrees are all liberal art degrees?

Fuck off. I'm arguing with retard children.

>>382266567
Games that hit you with curve balls are more interesting. Real life isn't 100% predictable.

And XCom is obnoxious for other reasons, the RNG isn't that bad.

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>>382267914
>doing statistics and probability in your head is not a skill
>thinking it's fucking addition

>>382268974

Where is evidence that risk management is a difficult skill?

Are you driving your own topic off topic?

Okay then.

>>382269059

Hey that's a pretty good explanation, anon! Now explain missing a flank shot on an alien that's one foot in front of you. :^)

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>>382269131
You'll be ok buddy

>>382269131
Are you saying art isn't a skill, you fucking mongoloid?

>>382269196

Really not hard to run basic statistics. You are asspulling to tell me XCOM will ever make me run a standard deviation.

49%*2 or one shot at 70% hmmm. Oh fuck i wasted my life arguing about video games and don't know!

>>382269205
>"prove it's a skill"
>"nah you had to prove it's a DIFFICULT skill"
dumb kurwa
it wouldn't be a 6 figs job if it was easy or everyone would do it

this argument is retarded and you're all retards for prolonging it

>>382269323

I certainly hope so :l

>>382269319
The enemy ducked or your soldier can't handle recoil

>>382266567
Because RNG forces adaptation and some people prefer having that over a completely scripted game where you can plan every move without having to have contingency plans.

>>382266717
>>382267038
> git gud

Maybe we played different games.
I'm playing trough Long War 2 right now for the 3rd time and is just hilarious how you can miss a 76% shot while the opponent is fine with 30% and lower.

That said, I guess you might be right, is not RNG, is artificially difficult, or inflated difficulty.

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>>382269347
if it's so easy why did you get your ass kicked before coming here and complaining?

>>382269339

Yes. Because everything is art. Nice try almost had me.

>>382269365

You misunderstand. risk management positions don't just ass

>>382267914
I hate RNG games too but

>Risk management is not a skill

What the fuck?

>>382268831
Can we talk about The Bureau for a second?
How much of a missed opportunity is this?

How awesome would a true-blue, turn-based, team-management style X-Com game have been, set in the 1940s where you control a Men In Black style government cover-up agency? Where you'd fight enemies in Malt Shops and drive-in theaters, and "Number of Civilians Who can recall the incident" is just as important as "Number of agents fallen"?
Goddamn I never really thought about it until just now, but I'd play the fuck out of that.

>>382266567
making out alive thanks to some bullshit numbers it's a hell of a drug

>>382268940
>shoot an alien

that was your first mistake

>>382269552

Prove that it is a skill.

>>382269543
>don't just ass
you dropped your english right there buddy

>>382269442
>soldier can't handle recoil
The best of the best, humanity's last hope.

>>382269685

I lost the will to expl

>>382269642
>what is poker
>what is chess
>what is general planning

risk management is seen in MULTIPLE facets of life. youre not winning one battle, but the entire war

>>382269730
>XCOM in UFO Defense and EU
>Best of the best
>Not whatever random janitors and privates the other military forces can lend you
>XCOM in XCOM 2
>Best of the best
>Not random punks and /k/fags

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>>382269642

>>382269730
I mean, these guys ARE fighting extraterrestrial horrors the likes of which have never before been encountered.
Unless you're playing Xcom 2, where they're NOT the best of the best, they're literally just whatever half-capable bodies they were able to recruit from the under-prepared resistance.

>>382269780
well I guess brain surgery isn't a skill because brain surgeons also do other things like fill out pa

>>382269889

>what is poker

gambling

>what is chess

skill

>what is general planning

what i do when the toilette paper is gone.


>risk management is seen in MULTIPLE facets of life.

So is walking. pooping. masturbating and eating unhealthy.

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>>382269205
Simple risk management is the ability to "manage risks" as in examining pros and cons to determine the best course of action. This is a broad simplification but it serves its purpose. For instance if someone (I.e you) is a retard and says risk management isn't a skill more so than addition, that shows that you didn't properly examine your risk for getting blown out. Had you done that and used the risk management skill you would have seen this coming like everyone else.
(Not him and here's the anime post you talked shit about btw)

>>382269642
I know no matter what I say you're just going to tell me it doesn't count and I'm wrong, but fuck it.

Risk management is grace under pressure, assessing the situation and understanding whether or not the action you have in mind is the best possible one - and furthermore, being prepared for whatever happens if anything goes wrong. This is an actual skill, one people use in real life.

I don't like games like XCOM because the idea feels "fake" to me, as it's just a bunch of numbers that decide whether or not anything happens while in reality there's much more subtle factors to the situation. But I understand risk management is a skill nonetheless, and I can see why somebody else would like this kind of game.

>>382270101
unironically not an argument

>>382269941

Corroboration?

>>382269960

False equivalence.

>>382270101
>there a pros who consistantly rank top 5
>its gambling

>chess
>i did not lose any of my pieces

>ive never held a job

and yet you can identify risk management for the most mundane aspects of life but not dice rolls lol

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>>382270192

>>382269941
BTFO

>>382270185

Correct.

>>382270136

We know what risk management is and what it as a "skill" entails. What is in question is the difficulty of that skill as it relates to XCOM (not very difficult).

>>382270138

No, you're not wrong. The problem is saying games like XCOM and poker require some engineering talent to be good at. risk management however, is not a skill at our level, what you do day to day should be done subconsciously at this point. If you are planning your day out meticulously then you likely have other issues.

>>382270464
>require some engineering talent
risk management isn't exclusively an engineering thing you dumb nugget

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>>382270464
>risk management however, is not a skill at our level

>what you do day to day should be done subconsciously at this point

uhhh sweetie not everyone works slave wage jobs 9-5 nor thinks day by day
> poker require some engineering talent to be good at
but if youre great at stats then you have a future in big data so whats the problem

>>382270239


The results of a dice roll should be pure luck unless you can modify the dice roll. This is not a talent.

>>382270742
>uhhh sweetie not everyone works slave wage jobs 9-5 nor thinks day by day

I work oil, I make more money than you have in three years.

>but if youre great at stats then you have a future in big data so whats the problem

Good luck. Every math major i've known lives with their mom and dad.

>>382270797
>it's not risk management
>it's not a skill
>it's not talent

lul pick a goalpost

>thread was suppose to shit on XCOM
>get irrelevant autism instead

>>382270913
>lost the argument
>"shut up I make more money than you!"
why would people do that on the Internet?

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>>382267914
In order to have an appropriate discussion about a subject, we must define the terms that we are going to be used. The reason is that we need everyone to understand the parameters of the discussion as well as the objective.
Wikipedia defines skill as: A skill is the ability to carry out a task with pre-determined results often within a given amount of time, energy, or both.
Cambridge defines ability as: the mental or physical power needed to do something.

Conclusion? You are a faggot and OP too

>>382270615

Risk management in XCOM is literally just understanding percentages.

>>382270983
That's half the threads on this board, really.

>>382269530
>I'm using a mod that makes it harder, this RNG really sucks xD
fuck off

>>382271025
>lost the argument

news to me.

>"shut up I make more money than you!"

I honestly do.

>why would people do that on the Internet?

What are you doing?

>>382270913
ah yes oil, a job you take up because you live in a flyover state/ex mil and you tout your low 6 figures

>>382271035

Studies have been done on the difficulty of tasks for decades. I think I said that before. risk management in terms of understanding percentages is not very skill intensive.

>>382271046
And having the balls to deal with it.
Most gamers don't have that. They see a character die and quit. Games like XCom weren't meant to give you perfect playthroughs.

>>382271208

Love you too.

>>382271228
You're the only one here reducing risk management to understanding percentages, dumbass.

>>382269460
This.

>>382271250

erm.

If that's your standard then many people meet and exceed it.

I suggest we set the bar for claiming something as skill intensive much higher.

>>382271334

This is about XCOM.

What false equivalence are you trying to make?

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>>382271321

>>382270941
>goalpost

That's not how you use that word, you stupid asshole

>>382271481
>This is about XCOM.
Yes it's about XCOM.
Can you be arsed to type your own sentences or are you comfortable with not making a point?

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>>382271521

>>382271208
>flyover state

t. Cancerfornia

>>382271587

My point is clear. You're the only one struggling. I am comfortable with those results.

>>382271552
and yet it derives from sport equipment

>>382271687
>My point is clear.
News to me.
>You're the only one struggling.
News to me.
>I am comfortable with those results.
What are you doing?

>>382266567
XCOM 2 has more options to reduce RNG.

Weapon stocks that do damage on miss is a good example.

Time to git gud.

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>>382271817

Thanks for that anon I laughed.

Here is the le anime pic now to close the thread.

>>382270101
>>what is chess
>skill

Thank you for admitting risk management is a skill

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i like enemy within

>>382270913
>I make more money than you have in three years.

>anon is so retarded he can't even form a sentence that makes sense

> itt Some retard doesn't understand how to think

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lol sane retards arguing with a retard who has to resort to their job that EVERYONE says they have in the midwest

xcom can be dumbed down, just like mario+rabbids where everyone feels like a winner as it opts out anything based on reflex

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>>382272005

Chess isn't XCOM. Small victory for you.

But at what cost....seems to me you need to work on your risk management.

>>382266567
It turns gambling into a game that isn't just an actual money sink like gachas and loot boxes.

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>>382266567
>I've never played a single table-top game in my life

>>382272182
>b-but MUH XCUM!!!!!!!!!!!11!

Uhm sweetie you yourself said that this was about "risk management is not a skill period"

>>382272414

Prove that was me.

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>>382271228
Xcom features several mechanics that you seem to ignore for reasons.
The game is about choosing a card that has a greater number? No, it has a space and mechanics for the characters.
Should I cover on that bush or behind a wall? Where are the enemies? Can I do something to increase my reward and decrease my danger? How should I move my units? Is this a proper shooting spot?
Risk management in Xcom also includes map awareness, understanding of cover and obstacles, understanding of movement of units and mechanics around them, and abilities that can be used in order to complete the mission. Risk manacement is an important term that must be properly defined by both parties in order to properly discuss about it. Are we talking about the entirety of Xcom and if it is skill based or about a professional job that renquires Risk Management skills in the resume?
I already placed the definitions for important terms that are used in th discussion on skill.
About the difficulty and 'studies'. How can we measure difficulty in skills? Can we say that math is harder than chess? What kind of math and what level of chess are we talking about? Who are the subjects in the experiments? Is there a chance that the subjects can compromise the results? How many subjects does our study has in order to properly state that something is harder?
Blah blah blah

>>382272154
>dumbed down
Does slowing your campaign progress with unlucky battles really equate to smart?

Gamers need to admit theses are GAMES designed to provide an experience.

>>382272450
Proof that I'm not you

>>382266814
This
Only people addicted to gambling, chance, loot grind and gacha can enjoy these type of games

Unfortunately thats me

>>382272518
>Can we say that math is harder than chess?

yes.

>What kind of math and what level of chess are we talking about?

blitz is probably the hardest type of chess. But we can still define it.

>Who are the subjects in the experiments?

animals and humans.

>Is there a chance that the subjects can compromise the results?

low likelihood and it is peer reviewed so I trust it. You should too.

>How many subjects does our study has in order to properly state that something is harder?

You'll have to research that.

>The game is about choosing a card that has a greater number? No, it has a space and mechanics for the characters.

Not a skill.

>Should I cover on that bush or behind a wall? Where are the enemies? Can I do something to increase my reward and decrease my danger? How should I move my units? Is this a proper shooting spot?

Do you struggle on how to wipe your ass? Like do you sit down, look at the toilette paper and go "hmm damn the paper is going under not over!, FUCK how am i going to accomplish this?"

Nothing you listed is difficult, mere experience will teach you the correct way to perform in this game.

>I already placed the definitions for important terms that are used in th discussion on skill.

You haven't even come close to that.

>>382272931
>mere experience will teach you the correct way to perform in this game.
Much like how mere experience teaches just about every fucking skill in life

>Man driving a car is not a skill. It's just a matter of experience
>Swordfighting? Fuck that dude it's just practicing a lot
>Learning a new language? Fuck off dude it's just memorizing words 'n talking for a bit

But because I know you're gonna be pedantic again, let's apply it to other game genres
>Lol just aim better man, shooters are easy
>Dark Souls? Pff just try a couple of times and you'll time right

>>382272931
I love people that argue for hours about semantics. Truly a skill to behold.

>>382273362
>Much like how mere experience teaches just about every fucking skill in life

Depends on what we are talking about. On most physical skills yes. Most mental skills are not intuitive enough for experience alone to help you master it. This is going to be hard to understand if your only frame of reference is physical activity like masterdebating.

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>>382272931
>I will select sentences and reorder them to change the message because I want and can.
>you didn't define terms! I am the defining terms! But I won't share the definition because otherwise I WONT WIN
>I will tell you vaguely about a study I heard about once. I trust it because reasons, you should do it too!
>Muh experience
Last (You) 4 u

>>382266717
>git gud
>enemy right in front of me
>95% hit chance
>"miss"
yea... "all skill"

>>382273764

I'd think I was full of shit if I talked to myself on 4chan too.

>>382273772
>move to the side
>100 to hit
WTF WHY

Has anyone here tried that "Spectrum: Green" overhaul mod?

I was considering giving it a try since I really don't feel like dealing with LW2's bullshit until after the expansion

Plus I like the sound of being able to fully customize my soldier classes.

Xcom EW > Xeno > Xcom 2

Soon to be Xeno 2 > Xcom EW

>>382273772
Still failing to understand the basics of RNG.

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Did someone say XCOM?

>>382274453
>not understanding the reply
you can't get gud with RNG, now management and things like that yes that does take skill. but RNG still plays a factor.

>>382274801
If you can accept to fail a 95% and doesn't have a backup plan yes you failed at basics.