>Dark Souls is hard, but fai-

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>>382241181

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>Dark Souls is a masterp-

>>382241292
I've definitely been one shot by the flame, I wonder what makes that happen

>>382241292
Love the hack, bro.

>>382241181
dark souls is not hard and fair. If you died on the bridge you're retarded because it clearly has scorch marks all over it that telegraph the dragon before you even hear or see it,

>>382242165
first one never kills. only when his ass is seated he will fuck you up.

>>382242432
fair enough

This game is pathetic. You have infinite stamina that simply allows you to keep rolling forever. The enemies are dumb and the only thing you have to do to win is to capture their movements. End of story. And about the graphics/design, do i have to say anything? Is nothing more than mediocre. Back to the combat: it is slow, the animations are garbage. Go to youtube and watch a pvp duel, trash stuff. Now buy something with a true good combat system, like JKA, and go play it, to understand what a good system really is.
You're welcome.

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>dark souls is a good gam...

>>382243096
>The enemies are dumb and the only thing you have to do to win is to capture their movements

SHARINGAN

Dying has absolutely no consequences whatsoever.

If the game is unfair its not toward the player...

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>Dark Souls give a flawless experie-

>>382242332
>DUDE SCORCH MARKS LMAO

And how are you supposed to know that the marks came from a fucking dragon?

>>382243289
I liked Tomb of the Giants.
Is there something wrong with me?

>>382243535
I love how many casuals cried about DS2 health system

>>382243704
It doesn't matter if its a dragon or a fucking caterpillar there's scorch marks, maybe you think to yourself "huh, maybe there is something here that will burn me up."

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>>382243096
>JKA
>not JK2
trash taste
PvP is great if you try to do something other than get BS'd to dead too

>>382242034
If they ever remake the damn first DS game.
They have to complete this zone and this boss.
including the centapide that you cant see his guimic because the fight is terrible.
at least give the lave ring before the fight instead of after it.

>>382243772
No. Only shitters bitch about the difficulty.
There are a lot of things wrong with FromSoft games from a technical standpoint, but their difficulty isn't that bad.

>>382243830
>casuals
*people with taste
Demon's Souls had a sensible health vs death system even if world tendency was ass. Me invading some poor soul who kept dying and killing him getting easier each time was about as bad as the online of the whole series got.

>>382243704
>Durr how do I know a dragon is around and I should be careful for sudden death from above?
>Literally sees a dragon land RIGHT IN FRONT OF YOU earlier in the level.
What's it like, living as a retard?

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>>382244169
>online

>>382244484
>ds2
>not online
dumb frogposter

anor londo
why are you such a cocksucker

>>382244587
Im not him...
But I can say I have bad online experience with 2.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82o7iYkEzaw

>>382244793
I wouldn't expect anything else, Dark Souls II had the worst online. The way you could invade hollowed people was just one part of it, they should have had that one way or another, either make hollowing lower your HP or still allow invasions, not both.

>>382243996
i'm so glad magic and miracles are useless in the later games

>>382245379
Everyone used one magic or other in DS2 and casters oneshot players in 3.
Only thing that was nerfed was hybrid builds in 3 until people realized they can just keep playing the same as always by just elevating the common PvP levels from 100-120 to 150.
Since quality is consistently more powerful and bf, db and wog can be midrolled through they're not exactly very strong in das1 either.

>>382244340
The dragons shows up for 5 seconds at the very start of the level and is never seen again until the bridge.

There is literally no reason why anyone should just assume that the dragon is going to randomly firebomb them on this one particular bridge.

>>382242165
You have to jump or block I think since it won't trigger the knockdown and you get hit by each tick.

>>382242432
I don't think his default sweep does that at every range even when seated.

>>382244340
>see a dragon fly for about 2 seconds in the map
>oh thats neat
>turn a corner 10 minutes later
>get 1 shot

"HURR BUT U SAW DA DRAGON, U SHUD HAVE KNOWN XD"

>>382246226
Again, except the fucking scorch marks. If you see a dragon earlier and THEN see random, unexplained patched of burn and a shitload of burned corpses and don't expect the dragon to strafe you, you are literally retarded.

>>382246506
>enemys throw firebombs at you
>see scorch marks on a bridge
>automatically assume that a dragon is going to 1 shot you from above because of a few fucking scorch marks

Why do you lie to yourself and pretend you knew ?

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>>382241181
that bridge is pretty easy faggot, what are you on about.

>>382241181
to this day i am still legitimately shocked that people unironically defend this part

i think what's happening is that some people must have lucked out when they first played through it, so they want to believe it's "hard but fair" so they can feel like they solved a puzzle when in fact they got lucky

I knew what to expect because this exact part happened twice in demon's souls. The only thing that tripped me up is in demon's you have to run the whole way through to the end.

Now what I want to know is, is it even possible to straight up fight the dragon in melee combat?

>>382246793
>hurr u saw a scorch mark, why didnt u expect to get one shot if you even took a step out onto the bridge?

>>382246576
Did you see a single fucking enemy literally anywhere near that particular bridge with firebombs? Every firebombing faggot until that point had been clearly visible and there were no places for fiebombing assholes to hide. Further, no firebombs have left scorch marks, or had an AoE that big.

I cordially invite you to never fucking breed and pass on your deficient genes.

>>382246847
Yes, but you better kill it really fast or you're getting blasted.
Wait next to the stairs where the flames can't reach you and it'll land down eventually.
Old lightning weapons used to do the trick.

>>382246847
I tried that instead of trying to cheese him with arrows. You can, but he hits like a truck and his fire breath doesn't dumb its high damage down whatsoever. If I remember right, he's even entirely willing to just straferun fire breath the bridge. You just have to shoot him in the head with an arrow or ranged attack and he'll hop down, hiding under the bridge has him go back up.

If you're a cheesy fuck you can just lure him down, smack him in the face, go hide and repeat his pattern endlessly.

>>382247172
So in your mind, its more logical to assume there's a dragon at that literal part of the bridge at that exact moment in time waiting to breathe fire on you that will instant kill you?

that's good game design?

>>382246847
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OHrz4B8OEFI
this character's overpowered for that point in the game, but it's possible

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Kalameet is the only well-done dragon in Souls, prove me wrong.

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>Dark Souls has the best bosses in the se-

>>382247172
can you explain how we logically get from

>there are scorch marks on this bridge
>there is a dragon in the area

to

>a dragon will arbitrarily spawn once i cross a certain threshold on this bridge and breathe fire down

i mean i personally understood that "there will probably be a fire breathing dragon here" but even then i don't see how you get "run forward to trigger the dragon to spawn then run back" or "sprint across the bridge(which has visible enemies on it) because i have exactly enough time to make it to a staircase that i can't even see" from the information you're provided

>>382247658

Top 5 base game boss.

>>382247498
Kalameet was good, but Midir was better

>>382246506
Aren't you overlooking the problem that even if you do realise something is up with the bridge you still have to walk across it anyway.

Not only that, but to escape the dragons flames you literally have to keep running FORWARD to a point along the bridge a new player cannot see until they have walked far enough along the bridge anyway to escape.

And then theres the fact that being cautious in this area gets you killed.
>take cautionary steps on to bridge
>see dragon coming spitting fire along bridge
>try and run back to safety
>die to flames

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>>382247658
>not bed of chaos

>>382247301
>If you're a cheesy fuck you can just lure him down, smack him in the face, go hide and repeat his pattern endlessly

That's how I beat him. There were a few times I got killed because he either landed on me or took a swipe at me, but eventually I got the bastard. It was cheesy but not really easy, fuck up once and you're gonna pay for it.

Probably should have done it at a higher level but the faggot had just burnt me so fuck him.

>>382247743
Midir is excellent and only shitters complain. I don't care if you cheese him with Pestilent Mercury or bait him into turning around into a fully charged R2 headshot over and over, it's a good fight, and a fun one.

>shooting at the drake from the black knight tower in the Parish

quality game right here

>people keep saying the dragon kills you when it's literally impossible for it to do so on it's appearance
Just makes it more hilarious that all these professed masters in the field of game design cry nonstop tears about a telegraphed trap that is little more than a suckerpunch and warning that has no lasting effect except to teach a valuable lesson. But of course, game design is to give so many warnings and telegraphs and flashing ques that there is nothing to actually learn, because it's only well designed if you always win at it.

>>382243096
go to bed timmy, watching random gameplay on youtube doesn't qualify you to shitpost about the game on 4chin

>>382243096
>you have infinite stamina that simply allows you to keep rolling forever
that's dark souls 3

>>382243704
As stupid as the scorch marks argument is, you literally see the dragon earlier in the level. It drops down as you come up the stairs near the beginning.

>>382241181
pretty sure it was like that to make people read player messages

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>>382243289
Tomb of the Giants was great, you're just memeing at this point.

>>382247850
Bed of Chaos is bad, yeah. But the 4 kings is almost not bad, and that makes it worse.

>>382248508
considering that

>player is likely not to have full hp since they just fought a boss
>you receive counter damage if you're hit while sprinting/guard broken and most people's first instinct is to run or block when they see an attack coming
>if you survive that there's still a good chance you'll get knocked down and get up only to be hit again because the fire lasts a while

it's pretty much guaranteed to kill you if you get caught by it, and even in the hyper specific stance where you get hit by it and don't die, "you can still survive when you get hit" isn't actually a defense against the main criticism that this scenario is a cheap way to hit/kill you

>>382247850
Honestly I hate Centipede Demon way more. Bed of Chaos is just a dumb puzzle boss, sure you might fall a few times but at least it retains your progress. Centipede is just really poorly designed with an awful arena and atrocious camera.

>>382249138
>it's pretty much guaranteed to kill you
it isn't, everything you just said is not consistent. Maybe the player healed after fighting the boss, because why the fuck would they walk around without full health? Who says every player uses all their estus on the taurus demon?
I didn't die, I sprinted across the bridge because I sprinted everywhere, got hit by the fire, saw the little side area to hide in, got in it and opened the bonfire shortcut.
I honestly can't understand how people are upset about this part of the game when there are plenty of areas that Dark Souls does have actual problems in that make far more valid arguments about the flaws in the game.

>>382249506
>getting hit by centipede demon
just stand in the entrance and dodge his overtelegraphed attacks, how can you die to this

>>382243096
>JKA

i wish lugormod wasn't dead

>>382249515
>areas that Dark Souls does have actual problems in
Hello Catacombs

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Fuck this fucking boss
took me over 20 tries

>>382249916
did you have the rusted iron ring?

>>382249515
i'm not upset by the part i'm upset that people unironically defend it when it stuck out to me as one part of the game that seemed indefensible

there's a lot of bits in dark souls that can catch you off guard but once you learn about it you understand how you could have handled it better your first time, with the dragon you basically need to know when an enemy spawns offscreen or you need to sprint through in a game which has probably been punishing you for sprinting through areas

i legitimately don't see how anyone gets through this section on their first attempt without luck,in your case you were lucky to survive but it's not like you actually knew what you were doing

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>Dark Souls is flaw-

>>382249916
this isn't even an actual fucking "boss"

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>>382249138
>the game didn't have a snazzy quicktime event to dodge the dragon's fire or a flashy help tip saying "Watch out for that dragon! Try running down those stairs over there before he breathes fire at you!"
>since it doesn't it's a cheap way to kill the player
You might want to try the Call of Duty series, it seems a little more up your alley.

>>382249916
literally just hold the shield up until he dives, then hit a couple times. the approach is harder than the boss itself

>>382241292
>Someone who's died countless times and knows the game well can survive without being 1-shot by gimmick mechanics!
This is the level of retardation in all DS fanboys.
>If I can figure it out after dying 9 times everyone else should automatically know how to beat this segment!

It indicates a very underdeveloped theory of mind.

>>382249138
Just after fighting a boss is when you would be fully healing actually. If you're not prepared then there is a very small chance of death, which is still part of the lesson it is teaching. "Cheap" is not a detraction either, you weren't personally expecting or prepared for it, so be better prepared. Saying something is cheap or unfair is a highly personal take on it that discourages actual emergent design. "Unfair" doesn't always mean bad design and "fair" design is not always good. It's not like this is even the first instance of sudden peril, the very first boss does it in it's first appearance.

>>382250174
epic response friend u shure showed me

>>382249916
Fucking fag
Try fighting pinwheel
Took me 50 tries

>>382250339
Evidently I sure did, otherwise you would have just not responded and moved on with your life. If the shoe fits, Timmy.

>>382250302
Pretty much.
>i already know this so you should too!

>>382246847
Only in first game, NG+ impossible

>>382250507
Well yeah, you should. What are you, a fucking retard or something?

>>382250306
but the tagline people throw out is "hard but fair" and when those same people defend this section using those terms that you have to ask yourself what else are they full of shit about?

i don't personally care if the segment is unfair or if it killed me when i played through it, i care that people will then unironically tell me that a completely unpredictable and unavoidable death (based on the information i had at the time) was avoidable because i knew the species of the thing that killed me beforehand, it's just fucking stupid

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>>382250083
Why don't they look like pic realated? That'd make the fight infinitely better.

>>382250050
I don't understand how anyone expects to get through any section of Dark Souls on the first attempt. It's a game about trial and error. Dying is integral to learning what and what not to do. The world is oppressive and designed to kill you even if you know what you're doing. If that's something you don't like, that's fine, but to single out one area of Dark Souls as such is asinine.

>>382243943
okay, wtf are you supposed to do then? Without the master key, THAT IS THE ONLY WAY FORWARD

>>382250687
Prepare to die :^)

>>382250486
You basically just went "haha baited!"
Surely you'd just go, "I was only pretending to be retarded" if you got pressed.

People seem to be ignoring the fact that it doesn't fucking matter if you die there. You can just respawn and get your souls back.

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>>382250687
Or you could just not be so fucking bad at the game and not die to a blatantly obvious telegraphed attack? You honestly might want to try an easier game. I recommend something like the new Star Wars Battlefront. It's really flashy, perfect for little spergs who type in all-caps like you.

>>382250302
He has no armor so he has no resistances. He barely even has any vit. He just runs out and gets hit by it and doesn't even get one-shot. He even shows that you have time to drink an estus.

wtf are you smokin

>>382250886
Why are you still responding Timmy?

>>382247743
>>382248294
Midir is a too easy fight stretched out for too long.
All his patterns are almost trivially avoided (His entire flame charge for instance is a case of rolling left during a very generous window), his AI generally puts you in an easy striking position with generous time after most of his patterns (provided he faces you after an attack and doesn't just freeze to telegraph using tail swipe or something like that) and you can sip your Estus almost immediately after getting hit without punishment if you aren't in the middle of a multi-hit pattern. You can occasionally misread an attack like his standing up fire breath and that then often takes off enough health that you can't misread another without sipping Estus and that small chance of fucking up over a fucking long ass fight (provided you don't get a riposte) is what lends the fight any semblance of difficulty.

>>382250050
First boss and many other moments in the game involving ranged enemies require fast judgement calls. The dragon (fuck it's a wyvern) is no different, a huge bridge with one way to go should spell danger, like the boss you just killed. The only difference is that you're punished far less here on purpose. Even dying doesn't cost you much anyway, which is part of the overall design. The wyvern is there purely to instill that sense of fear and danger, not to kill you.

>>382250931
stop memeing.
Seriously, lets imagine you are standing at the archway before the bridge starts. You ludicrously work out that the dragon is going to possibly one shot you. Lets also guess that a first time player has no more estus after the burg and the taurus demon. A new player is going to be freaking out because of the amount of souls they are carrying, and they think they are far from home so they aren't going to go back.
With this in mind, WHAT ARE YOU SUPPOSED TO DO YOU FAGGOT? Simply predicting the dragon is coming doesn't change the fact that he often one-shots players. There is no fire defense at this point.
Just accept its a shitty part of the game.

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>>382241181
I hate how people started to look at Dark Souls as a "flawed competetive-challenge oriented game" instead of a very well designed adventure game and arpg.

it took me less than 5 minutes to pass the dragon on my first, blind run.
git gud

>>382247498
>That noise when he uses telekinesis

>>382251348
The dragon does less damage on the first time you encounter him. It will not one shot you. Did you watch the fucking webm on the first reply to this thread?

>>382251402
"hard but fair" is a pure fucking cancer term

i have a theory that many people hated dark souls 2 because they treated it as a hard but fair game where you try to lure the enemies 1 at a time and all that shit and made it completely uninteresting for themselves

I played Demon's soul so I knew what scorched marks on the ground mean.

>>382251575
the webm is not a valid representation of the average player's experience since the guy stops sprinting just before the first hits him, avoiding counter damage, and gets hit late so the fire doesn't hit him a second time

>>382241181
>Big open area
>Scorch marks
>The first flame doesn't kill
>Obvious alternate route

Yeah...it is super unfair and the only reasonable outcome is that you die a bunch doing the same shit over and over.

>>382251575
I honestly don't know what to say, other than I HAVE been one-shotted by him before.

>first dark souls not on sale
FUUUUUCK WHY NOT?

>>382250204
>hold the shield
Found the braindead retard. Too dumb to play shieldless?

>>382251750
>not a valid representation of the average player's experience
sure it is. He's got low health, he runs until the point where he's about to run out of stamina and stops, gets hit, drinks a heal potion, and lives. PLENTY of people don't get one shot by the hellkite dragon and you shouldn't assume otherwise just because you did.

>>382251967
Only braindead retards complain about bosses being difficult. Just trying to help this one walk before he can roll.

>>382249916
3/4 of the fight is getting closer

>>382251874
Then you got unlucky. luckily, dying isn't a huge deal in this game.

>>382248294
Midir is boring as fuck when you realize you can stand in front of him, easily dodge his attacks, and hit him in his stupid face. Also the fight takes too long and chasing him across the arena when he uses some attacks is annoying.

>>382251728
Demon's Souls was a bit better about that.
>First cutscene in 1-1 is the dragon
>You encounter two dragons later at their nest, with the first one you saw leering over some smoking charred corpses.
>Attacks from the opposing side of the nearby bridge rather than from behind
>By the time the player reaches 1-2 and sees long bridges and charred corpses they should know to beware of dragon flybys

Back when Dark Souls first came out we thought of it as the sequel to Demon's rather than the start of some separate trilogy. Keen eyed people were wary as soon as they saw the bridge going to the Parish, and everyone else got the reference as and just brushed if off as "damn he's back for round 2 and got me."

>>382243289
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_BBuGdBJThg

>>382250631
Hard but fair refers to the cause of death pretty much always being hinted at or your own error, as well as the punishment being fit for the error made which holds true for almost everything as there's always a telegraph or something suspicious, though it still allows for some subversion because otherwise it's literally not a trap. In this case it still holds true because you come out to a wide scorched bridge area (already suspicious because the game has already inferred there being danger in such areas), the wyvern's initial appearance was very close by distance-wise and only if you let your guard down significantly and have low health will you somehow die to the wyvern. The most likely outcome is you get burned a little bit, run back, and think "Shit I need to be alert at every turn.".

>>382253376
neat

>>382254005
Also, you don't get really punished hard if you die. Is not hard getting there without the boss in the bridge and get your souls back.

>>382254257
Exactly, that was even what I said in my first post. People get far too hung up on what is "fair" or "unfair" and don't even look at the full picture. I want to reiterate that "fair" design doesn't equate to good design, because anyone looking solely in that term has a very narrow and boring view of how a game is and can be put together.

>>382241181

>run to the left of the bridge and tuck yourself into the corner
>wait for the dragon to jump down onto the bridge
>run through his legs to the bonfire

Wow that was fuckin hard.

Am I weird?
>See 5 hollows and get scared something's going to pop up like the Taurus Demon from earlier.
>See the staircase area and figure it's a similar function to the tower in the Taurus Demon fight.
>Sprint as fast as I can.
>Scream as I narrowly miss fire I never expected.

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>>382241292

he looks like a red frank west

You guys wouldn't have to deal with bullshit like this if you actually played good games like Bloodborne instead.

>>382241292

fpbp

cue everyone in the thread ignoring this post as they whinge about being one shot by a dragon that i totally didn't know was gonna be there, man

>>382242165
At launch he used to deal much more dmg, and he also used to shoot fire even when you were in the middle of the bridge, instead of just when you approached him.

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>I can finish my sente-

>>382251890
its already like 10 bucks or something.
they are not going to sell it to you for 2 bucks with all the dlc.
specially because the game is successful.

>>382253376
The texture work looks just as bad as most das2 areas. It goes to show that das2 could have looked amazing if they hadn't removed the lighting engine late in dev.

>>382250342
>pinwheel
what a fag, pinwheel is literally just 1 blog then run to him and cut him down

>>382244080
What about the location of the coal while you're melee?