Everyone knew, right?

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>>382205717
Was it really wild card
Or was Robin Hood just Loki in disguise?

Also after he joined yeah

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The pancake conversation was the Sally-Anne test in video game form. Anyone who didn't catch on at that point is literally autistic.

>>382205996
Seemed like he had two set personas. Not sure I'd call that a wild card.

>Hey guys I know you're thieves and we really need to rob that prosecutor.
>But what if we don't want to?
>Then I'll tell on you!
I don't see how that was supposed to fool anyone

>>382205717
Probably not, considering how dumb persona fans it was probably a huge shock

>>382205717

Not me. I figured he had an ulterior motive in joining the team of course but I didn't think he'd go as far as to shoot me in the fucking face. Pancake conversation made me think for a bit but I wasn't too keen on how Morgana's talking worked at that point, considering more and more people understand him over time.

Him joining in the first place was a complete surprise for me.

>>382205717
Yes. That smug and insane personality of yours is a result of Nyarly's brainwashing and soon you will be freed from his influence then join back the Phantom Thieves.

Or turned into second Reaper for the worst case scenario

Wasn't the real surprise that they knew already?

Atlus themselves spoil it by making him the odd one out and giving him the antagonist's clothes in 4 costume packs

>>382205996
Likely the Wild Card, since Yaldabaoth was the one who gave it to Joker.

>>382205717
I didn't really think about it that much honestly, I felt really dumb afterwards

>All trailers before release show all main cast/persona users
>Get game and play it
>The loading screen on PS4 shows mysterious new character
Honestly at that point, it should've been obvious to the user, evil or dies

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>>382205996
Since Personas (at least before the second awakening) match the thief's outfit, it's most likely that Robin Hood was an illusion made to match Goro's prince outfit.
His wild card seems like an afterthought in the story that goes completely unused. Perhaps it's groundwork for his spin-off?

>>382209008
Yeah pretty much. They spend like 2 whole days on that shit too.

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>>382205717
Him being the traitor isn't the suprise. The suprise is that he's Shido's bastard son and that when he killed you he didnt kill the real you just the cognitive you

Also speaking of that why Didn't the real joker die or lose all reason to live the when the cognitive version of himself died?

Everyone says that "Everyone knew" but wasn't it only confirmed that Morgana and Joker knew?
I just assumed they told everyone else later

>>382205996
Nope

He follows the party theme of Worldy Trickster -> Mythological Trickster. He might just be able to use both because he constantly shifts between the personalities of the righteous detective and the hitman for hire. His mask never evolved in a sense, just fragmented.

I don't think he's a Wild Card user either.

>>382211598

Because what Akechi killed was the cognitive vision of Joker within Sai's distortions - not Joker's own personal shadow

>>382209008
I was expecting something like that. That you got captured in a palace was a huge clue something was up, and trickster characters normally pull that sort of pretend to be captured con all the time.

>>382211598
Why would he die? It's not his shadow or anything like that, also Ann didn't die after killing her cognitive version in Kamoshida's palace.

>>382211659
>I just assumed they told everyone else later
They did but it was like a day after where they met in Jokers room iirc. The more surprising thing is that Ryuji didn't fuck it up

>>382211598
He was just an NPC in Sae's cognitive world. The shadow has to die in order for a person to die in the real world. Joker's shadow is his controlled personas.

I'm mainly surprised Akechi bought dozens of cops into the metaverse and none of them seem surprised about supernatural shit existing.

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>>382211598
>why didn't joker die
You're almost as bad as this idiot

For some reason I fucking knew it when I saw him in the that cutscene where he tries to get some sushi out of Sae. Everything about him reminded me of Adachi so much that my gut kept me from trusting him at any point before the obvious shit happened.

>>382211214
Maybe already has the Wild Card but never utilize it at all or remain oblivious to it. He probably never visit the Velvet Room either.

>>382206525
This.

>>382208746
What the hell are you talking about?

People literally knew before the game came out in Japan

>>382211598
The only way killing the cognitive version causes the mental shutdown is if it's the owner of a palace. In this case the one that was killed was simply a cognitive version in Sie's palace, so nothing happened.

>>382205717
Even the Phantom Thieves knew

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>>382215725
Jun Kurosu's face + Tatsuya Sudou's personality + Reiji Kido's backstory = Akechi Goro

Jun was manipulated and brainwashed by Nyarlathotep, but he managed to be free from it and join back the party

Sudou constantly always hearing Nyarlathotep's whisper until he became insane because of it.

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>>382205717
I didn't. I mean, obviously I knew that Akechi couldn't be trusted and that he would betray us. But I had no idea that he was the true culprit. I really thought he was just a lawfag who was going to turn us over to the police because he doesn't abide criminals. I was blown away when I found out he was the bad guy.

Think Atlus will change Goro' s fate in the updated game? Let you redeem him, set him free from his chains?

I dont like guys with high-caliber forcing himself into my clique

So from the start of the game i knew hes bad

>>382205717
>YOU JUST A PIECE OF TRASH LIVING IN A ATTIC

why was he so mad about that? was he projecting or something? and joker was only living there for a year.

>>382219023
There's three possible scenario :
>Redeem himself and confess his crime.
>Revealed that he was brainwashed or mind-controlled all along by another evil entity, thus he's gonna free himself and join back the party
>Get him to undo his crime by some sort of outlandish time-loop or something like that with another evil entity behind it.

>>382211598
>cognitive is just a fake version of you inside someone else mind. cognitive people are not shadows. its kill the shadow (a persons true self) that makes them die.

>>382206525
catching that wont stop you from being a failure in life anyway son.

>>382205717
I thought the pancake conversation was weird but chalked it up to either the game fucking up or some weird translation error where they forgot to make someone else also talk about pancakes.
I expected him to betray you but didn't expect that he'd be the true culprit, or that the Phantom Thieves had their own counter-plan. I thought he'd betray you but Sae would sympathise since you changed her heart just in time and help you get away. Then Akechi would apologise and come back to the team so I could bench him for all eternity because his white clothes crimp my style.

>>382219434
He's just mad that you were capable of getting what he wanted and more in the span of 8 months than he did in 2 years

>>382205717
The twist wasn't pancake boy
Rather it was the PT KNOWING the entire time he was a snake

>>382211910
Fucking this. Were they all Shido's men that he can just hush? Obviously not. So why the fuck aren't there a hundred cops wondering what the fuck this magic portal to a pretend casino is.
>>382212280
And this. Akechi is so Adachi it hurts.

I love P5, but Akechi is a shit tier villain.

>The ending of the game points out that what you had been doing was wrong and unjust
>Goro said this 80 hours prior
You know, if he didn't betray the Thieves he could've had a really good "I told you so" moment

>>382221581
He's still worse than them, betrayal or not.

>>382205717
It took me completely by surprise, I remember my bro coming to see me play and saying, the detective is the bad guy, and I was like nah, he's on the cover of the game so he's one of the protags, he then said, the detective was the bad guy in P4, so I said, THAT'S EXACTLY WHY THEY WON'T DO THE SAME THING.

Then I got shot in the face, I had to go back to my bro and tell him: Yep, the detective was the bad guy.

I even used the softer replies with Akechi the whole game

>>382205996
I like to believe he is a Wild Card user, just like Joker, but as the attendants say, you can only strengthen your power if you create links with others, and Akechi only cares about himself, its also fitting he has two Personas considering he basically has two personalities.

>>382205717

>Literally has the name of the man who betrayed Nobunaga

Why did they ruin the "twist" from day 1?

>>382207431
Basically this. I suspected him from the moment I saw him, as he was the only person that would make sense as being the traitor. Only thing that sorta threw me for a loop is when he tells the media that he doesn't think that the Phantom Thieves are inherently evil. Straight up getting shot in the face was a bit of a surprise for me too though.

>>382205717
I was spoiled on it, but yeah, I think they made it obvious so it wouldn't have the same effect as "Adachi is the killer".

>>382206525
I caught it, but I was already spoiled he was the traitor.

>Akechi doesn't get suspicious when casino doesn't start collapsing as soon as they "stole" the treasure
>or when the Metaverse app doesn't say that the destination has been deleted
>or when Sae doesn't have symptoms like all other people who had a change of heart
What happened? He wasn't that much of a retard during the actual heist.

>>382225878
or when his phone says "Begining Navigation" when Sae triggers the app

>>382219023
>Think Atlus will change Goro' s fate in the updated game? Let you redeem him, set him free from his chains?

Nah, make Mifune playable as originally intended

>>382226148
Anon.... They'd have to change her seiyuu...

Well its hard not to think he is the traitor when he wants to throw your ass in jail from minute one but when he has you by the ropes he decides to help you out in exchange to not be the PT anymore, that shit was obvious lues and anyone could tell.

>>382211598
I'm sure all the replies told you what an idiot you are. But I'll reply anyways

You're a fucking idiot, it was Makoto's sister's cognitive version of you that died.

>>382226314
Shit, I forgot

;_;

Given a lot of things which happened with other series, I might actually go back and see if Goro was, perhaps, the true hero

>>382206525
THATS THE POINT OF ALL OF THIS

But why so many Sally Anne tests?

Why Yahobath, and not The King in Yellow as the last boss? The story is about a "masked man" at a masquerade.

>>382211910
I believe they mentioned this. The reason Akechi did that was because Sae's palace didn't look like a normal palace. Do you remember how people in Kaneshiro's palace looked like ATM's? And Okumura's palace the people were robots. But in Sae's the people looked exactly like regular people.
Also when they first jump into the meta verse they said it looks just like the normal world because nothing changed drastically. Ryuji even mentions that when they first were in Kamoshida's palace and on their way from the police station, they couldn't tell they were in the metaverse until they saw the school look like a castle.
TL;DR
Essentially Sae's cognitive world looks extremely similar to the real world so Akechi didn't risk anything by bringing real police into it since they would believe it was real life.

>>382226754
>killed a lot of people for his dad for his plan
>hero

>>382211214
You know... if we had an Akechi spinoff about his hitman days, with SMT-style gameplay? That'd be pretty awesome, actually.

Seeing that Akechi had Loki, the next human nemesis in P6 will have Seth for a persona. I bet none of you get my reference?

>>382223830
Of course, but they wouldn't know that. He'd just be like "yeah I told you guys this shit was a bad idea" and they'd have to agree, because their bullshittery is what caused Demiurge to get even stronger.

would have been better if goro was an actual detective who believed in the system and wanted to prove the thieves wrong that it was ok to brainwash people into becoming good. but nope, he was a worse degenerate and just a tool for daddy.

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This thread is useless. I imagine many of you had it spoiled and want to act like it was no biggie. I wasn't spoiled, though I hated him for badmouthing us on TV.

This board is Makoto faggotry, how quick you all forget that Makoto had evidence of you and used it as blackmail. But muh Makoto. Fucking neogaf in here, her defence force.

The only reason I had a suspicion was before the September dungeon Igor reveals the gender of the metaverse intruder by mistake. And the SIU Director clearly spoke of a 3rd party doing their cleanup. Akechi always had a vibe for wanting to be in goverment, he was the reasonable deduction. I'm only angry we never got to meet the real Akechi. Not the one play acting or self induced psycho. We probably could have but Makoto needed more screentime so all was lost the moment she became the leader.

>>382228042
Makoto is a worse Naoto (who's already a shit character, mind you) in literally every way, Makotofags make me sick.

>>382205996
I think it was the Wild Card, he was given his gift by the same people Joker got his gift from. Just as everyone given the gift from Izanami in p4 likely could summon a form of Izanagi. Goro had no friends, Goro did not give a fuck about expanding his confidants, Goro only needed his mask of Detective Prince and Black Masked Killer. Robin Hood and Loki symbolized this fact, he only focused on strengthening himself and his form of Justice. He also had the neat power of breaking someone's ego.

>>382205996
I don't think he was a Wild Card. I'm fairly certain that Loki isn't a regular Persona and was manipulating him from the start. Think P2 Joker.

>>382227103
Still, how would he feasibly do that? There were at least 50 police men and 2 cars and there had to be more than that to surround the actual palace because in no way could Goro predict where Joker to where joker would make his escape. Additionally, to enter they all had to be near Goro. Do you expect me to believe that Goro put 50+ police men around him, entered the metaverse, drove with all of them through an empty Tokyo to the courthouse which btw was near their police station so they should be perfectly with the area and no one questioned why there is suddenly a big fucking casino in the middle of the city?

>>382205717
It was obvious he wasn't all that he seemed just from the marketing of the game, especially when the first promo art of everyone hid his face whenever possible.

>>382205717
>tfw you figure out Akechi's masterplan, so you take him on a rusecruise that could rival Kojima

>>382228814
That is a load of bullshit. Goro was in control of his actions, nothing was manipulating him.

>>382205996
They forshadowed the death of Shinjiro pretty well with the whole Castor/Pollux persona bit.
Had no idea that Robin Hood was a foreshadow to a bad guy persona.

>>382205717

It was so obvious I thought it was a red herring for something else. Shieet, after Persona 4, I thought they were trying to trick me or commit a mistake by jumping to conclusions.

>>382228269
>Akechi reveals his own plan and admits to 2 years worth of murder
>Makoto literally asks "Could Akechi be the one behind the mental shutdowns"

Watch the cutscene again if you don't believe me. It happened in that order. THIS is Makoto doing Naoto's job but 100x worse and more insufferable.

I didn't get anything spoiled shit I didn't even know who Haru was, what her name was, or that she was related to Okumura until they introduced her. However, I knew it was Akechi as soon as he joins and they show a silohuette that looks too much like him(the stuff on his clothes) matched too well with the stuff he wore even on his Robin Hood suit. It was too obvious throughout the whole 6th dungeon.
I however, was hoping he'd at least turn and stay with the team and that's what really let me down.

>>382229141
I thought the same thing. I honestly thought mishima was going to turn out to be the big bad. Feels stupid in retrospect though.

>>382205996
Jap version literally has Lavenza call him a wildcard

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>>382228939
>Goro was on a literal rusecruise

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>>382229661
OH SHID

>>382229720
Father thought us to not be ashamed of our palaces.

>>382228861
Getting them to the courthouse was easy. Drive there with the squad of police in the real world, and when close just go into the meta verse. This would take all the police with him as they mentioned if people are close enough you can take them in with you without their knowing, like Ann did in the beginning.
Also, knowing where Joker would escape from is simple. Akechi would know where they all are and just communicate to the police where to go in order to force Joker into a corner.
Now the Casino randomly appearing, I have no clue how to explain that nonsense.

It got obvious once he decided on the 6th target since that was the first one they didn't choose unanimously.

>>382229068
It's not like Personas possessing their users is something new to the series; P1, P2 and P3 all feature it as a key plot point.

I don't like Groo, but Loki, the original MegaTen demon, fucking with him would be much better than them trying to justify his decisions and make him a dindu.

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>>382205717
I got spoiled several months ago, but I always a feeling something was odd about him considering he didn't show up or was hidden in the trailers and promos. He doesn't even show up in the game's opening. Was Atlus even trying to make him look like a normal party member?

>>382225878
Akechi didn't know you could force people to have a change of heart. He only the Metaverse could be used to intimidate, the 2nd and 3rd Palace rulers even said that. They were intimidated by Akechi but not outright killed.

Akechi had no idea what the concept of a treasure was as he himself was honestly surprised when you mention the calling card was vital. The mechanics of a change of heart are new to Akechi. That covers most of your questions. The last one is about the Metaverse app itself, he dropped his guard. The reason is that he was -this- close to finally serving up Joker and finishing up his plan he wasn't expecting a grand reversal. The best way to describe is you've been grinding forever and your brain "is in the zone" so you let things like that pass, especially if you were never expecting danger in the real world (which he thought he was).

>>382229976
>Loki, the original MegaTen demon, fucking with him would be much better

Maybe it is. But Atlus seems scrapping this from the main game so they can present it in the extension DLC and make a cash out of it.

>>382229846
>This would take all the police with him as they mentioned if people are close enough you can take them in with you without their knowing, like Ann did in the beginning.
Maybe 10-20 people. To bring 8+ cars and 50+ people into the Metaverse is a bit more difficult. Remember, they went into the Metaverse near the train station and didn't talk half the commuters with them. The radius is not that big.
>Akechi would know where they all are and just communicate to the police where to go in order to force Joker into a corner.
Futaba would know, Akechi doesn't as soon as Joker goes alone. Also, tech doesn't really work in the Metaverse, like when Ryuji tries to take pictures with his phone, so I'm not exactly sure how he would communicate with his squad.

>>382229976
It isn't new but that isn't the case for Goro. All that shit was literally him, he was in control of the car all day he just chose to violently twist the wheel. This is persona, not the mainline series, stop hoping for shit like that to happen when it isn't what PERSONA is about.

>>382230264
Yeah, of course. Groo is an awful character but he's popular so he'll make money. At least Adachi was funny

>>382228269
Makoto never pretended to be an ace detective though.

>>382230331
>Groo is an awful character
Not for nips though. They mostly just waiting for what's next to him in the DLC.

>>382229976
>but Loki, the original MegaTen demon, fucking with him would be much better than them

SMTfag has started to feel depression over his own set of games and now he is trying to force his concepts on a different spinoff.

>>382230282
Persona 1 literally have the main antagonist's persona possess him.

>>382230273
In the casino as you're running away alone, you enter a hallway with a man searching for you. You hide behind some boxes as he walks past you, but he's on the phone and runs the other way as he's told to on the phone. So it did work.

>>382230585
That's a shadow or a cognitive person, not a real person.

>>382230282
I'm not talking about Mainline. More Persona games have featured Personas possessing people than not. (P1, P2:IS, P2:EP, and P3 vs P4 and P5)

Like I said, Goro is awful, but the whole "he was just possessed" angle is almost certainly what Atlus is going for.

>>382230473
>MegaTen = SMT
reee

>>382205996

Yes he is, its the same deal with Adachi: they never made bonds and stuck to they ways.

Loki is most likely his starting persona while Robin Hood was born from the ideal of his "perfect image" as a celebrity detective loved by many people.

The same deal with Mona and Zorro.

>>382230585
There's electrical equipment running in the casino, also in the museum like the lasers. Those cops are likely cognitive versions of the casino enemies. Remember the first enemy in the game is a casino guard who looks like a regular person before Joker rips off their mask.

>>382230331
>>382230671
Can you really say awful if you believe that he is possessed and his entire action and personality is warped from the beginning? He will be an entirely different character once the possession got off and might be better than before.

>>382230914
My point is that he's an awful character either way, but knowing Atlus they'll wave him of all wrongdoing in the name of fujobucks.

>>382230671
To add into this, P5 is already filled with a bunch of P2 references, most notably the color Red and JOKER.

>>382228042
My friend sat in for 5 mins of me using Goro in the casino and instantly picked him out as traitor due to how strong his persona is in Saes dungeon. Said it was a obvious RPG trope.

>>382231032
You can't conclude something that we've not yet seen. He might be a better character after he got off the possession.

>>382230770


>Remember the first enemy in the game is a casino guard who looks like a regular person before Joker rips off their mask
Sure, but that's in the Casino, where shadows are drawn to by their owner's twisted desires and shit. The squad outside has to be real though. Why would there be a cognitive squad? Sae would have to believe that there is a huge as fuck squad near the courthouse for them to exist. Also, they need to be real police, how else would they able to capture Joker? As soon as he leaves the Metaverse they would just vanish.

>There's electrical equipment running in the casino, also in the museum like the lasers.
That's part of the cognitive world. I mean, Ryujis phone doesn't work properly in the beginning because he's in the Metaverse. Why would the squad suddenly have working communication? And how would Goro know where Joker is heading when that's Futaba's ability.

>>382231032
Can't do that mate, he canon killed Futaba's mother and Haru's father. Adachi never killed Nanako, only trashy non important women. Akechi's in a whole different situation of not being redeemable even in a goofy ass way like Adachi. Atlus wrote themselves into a corner.

Framing the game as a flashback was a VERY bad idea, since any version that tries to update the game can't mess with the core palaces without throwing the story into a dumpster fire. You need to get Yusuke in order, as well as Makoto.

Even if they somehow retcon Haru's dad not dying, which doesn't put the team in the spotlight, it doesn't translate well to the protagonist being arrested in the first place.

The only way they could....this is just me spitballing, is "dude shadow Adachi". 3 Goro Akechis man! The 3rd one is really Shadow/Yaldy Akechi when he didn't have the balls to murder as a hitman!

>>382231146

P5 is pretty much Persona 2 lite

>the PT popularity and how it saves them in the end is very close to the rumors in P2
>Both Jokers have the ideals of punishing bad people but unlike Jun, P5 does it for real
>Yalby playing a crooked game much like Nartly stacking all in his favor and being overconfident

>>382231415
>Even if they somehow retcon Haru's dad not dying, which doesn't put the team in the spotlight, it doesn't translate well to the protagonist being arrested in the first place.

That's why retcon everything until the point before all this shit happens 2 year ago is also a possibility.

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>>382205717
Didn't notice the pancake since I wasn't following who was saying what at the time.
That said though, I knew he was the traitor when he started to get heated on the TV about bringing justice to the PT, and when the cover of the game made it clear he's a party member.

Was secretly hoping it was Makoto for siding with her sister, or maybe even Haru for blaming the PT for her father's death, and didn't her Persona say at her "release" something like "What a beautiful betrayal".

Was really disappointed that it was the braindead obvious choice.

Almost as disappointed with Akechi encounter, what the fuck were they thinking?

>>382211598
>he didnt kill the real you just the cognitive you
Did people really like it? It felt like that whole stunt was a giant ass pull. Then again, I had a lot of issues with Futaba being l33t-haxor that can hack anything, so maybe that made it less cooler for me.

>>382232457
>It felt like that whole stunt was a giant ass pull.
It's a bit contrived and the plan shouldn't technically work with how the Metaverse was presented before.

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>>382230273
>50+ people
More like 200+ policemen in riot gear.

>>382230770
>Those cops are likely cognitive versions of the casino enemies.
Nah man, it's stated that Goro planned on bringing in a police squad from the real world. He just went a bit overboard.

>>382231659
Don't forget that Anne = less rebellious Lisa

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>>382232457
Haru's father won't shut up about betrayal running in their veins. Haru who has been obedient for so many years rebels and betrays her father by siding with the thieves. That's what her Persona Milady was talking about. Incidentally Milady is pronounced like she says it, as in Milady de Winters. Not My Lady, just thought it was worth bringing up.

Anyway the game throws several red herrings to make it appears as if others could betray it. The first being Makoto being reserved around the time Sae's Palace is brought up and she's just on-guard, everyone mentions how she feels a bit off. Possibly seeing Haru's father have that mental shutdown scared her and was setup to make you believe she could be the traitor.

Haru introduced at the start of the black mask "who dun it" fever when the Principal was murdered. This, however, immediately invalidated Haru as a suspect for the deed. Haru was in Hawaii at the time the school principal was viciously murdered in the Metaverse then committed suicide via a mental shutdown. The other reason is right before the Hawaii trip Igor says the game wouldn't be interesting without complications and he referred to the Metaverse intruder as a "he" by mistake.

There's also Morgana but I don't think it's worth mentioning, no one would seriously believe Shadow Morgana would people. I suppose you could call it a trope subverted by no Shadow Teddie fight but it feels like a missing gap they pushed hard as a "maybe Morgana is murdering people while you're sleeping" since that's when those Mementos cutscenes of Shadow Morgana happen. Then there's Ryuji not keeping his fucking mouth shut but he's way too legit stupid to even think of this grand backstabbing scheme. Yusuke is genuinely autistic and would be so out of character for him to do so. Since we struck out the females as being culprits via Igor's own accidental slip of the tongue, that rules out Ann and Futaba. I'm honestly quite surprised don't pick up on Igor's "he" line.

>>382233770

Ginko also whore herself out to adults while Ann atmost got abused but her friend took the blow instead

>>382234569
The shadow was lying.

>>382205717
I kind of forgot about the traitor thing, so I didn't even know that it was a plot twist when it happened.

>>382233567
He was asking why the cops could communicate with electrical equipment. The cops he's referring to are the ones inside the casino chasing you in the tutorial, those are part of the cognitive security team of the casino. That's why their electrical gear works.

The cops that arrest you are the real deal but have been waiting outside the entrance, those are different than the Shadows masquerading as cops inside.

>>382234051
The Igor "he" line actually doesn't help you figure out who the Black Mask is at all.

Igor tells you that he doesn't know who "he" is, but clearly he does if he says "he". This means that Igor has suspicions cast on him, but it means that he could also be lying about "he" in the first place, and he's trying to make you rule out the potential that it's a female.

>>382234663
Lisa was performing compensated dating.

>>382234782
The cops that arrest you CAN'T be the real deal, as you're in Joker mode when they capture you.

>>382234782
>The cops he's referring to are the ones inside the casino chasing you in the tutorial
No, I was talking about the cops outside. The point was
>Goro can't communicate with them
>so they are not able to tell where Joker is trying to make his great escape
>therefore they need to surround the casino to capture Joker

>>382234978
The game literally tells you that Goro brought them in from the real world.

>>382230671
>the whole "he was just possessed" angle is almost certainly what Atlus is going for.
It was most certainly not. The point of Goro's arc is that he turned out warped due to a combination of his childhood, his rock bottom self esteem, a total lack of a support network, and getting tricked to death by Shido. He wasn't possessed, and they're not saying he's an innocent kid played by Shido. He just managed to pick the worst possible option every time, and Shido gladly enabled him to keep doing so and escalated to murder.

>>382235275
You misread me.

I'm not saying that Atlus made the game with the intent, I'm saying that that's what they'll go for in the spin offs. They need Fujodollars and Groo is the best option. They can't just have a normal redemption arc, because he killed 2 of the party member's parents. Persona Possession happens all of the time in these games, so it's the easiest out.

>>382234051
>Incidentally Milady is pronounced like she says it, as in Milady de Winters. Not My Lady, just thought it was worth bringing up.
When I first saw her Persona's name I didn't realize it was actually the name of a character. I thought they'd just given up coming up with names and named it m'lady and cracked up

>>382235275
Goro sounds more and more like a mainline character.

>>382205717
What a waste of a character. P5 was just the wasted potential game

>>382235245
But then Goro's plan makes no sense. If he's planning to capture the Thieves in the Metaverse after they steal the treasure, then the Palace would be collapsing and no one could be brought in safely.

>>382234814

I knew he made a mistake because Igor doesn't dwell on the gender after that slip-up. Let me say something else, Igor answers early in the game that he created the Metaverse app to help you. In fact, early on in Mementos someone will ask who made the app and you can select "a long nosed man" to which the party rebuffs like they don't know anything about that. Regardless, now that we've established this, how wouldn't Igor who the person intruding the Metaverse is?

The fake Igor is playing a role but the tidbits of information confirm the following

a) he created the Metaverse app and has some knowledge of it, some he's keeping from us which may or may not be malicious in intent
b) Igor can sense and tell the gender at that point of the intruder

You wouldn't have any reason to cast doubt when the gender is revealed by mistake. Everything he's said has been true, nothing up until that point would give you the idea he's deceiving you. I call it an honest mistake from a God who had a duurr moment of hubris. Which makes me wonder, this is the same fake Igor that I imagine greeted Akechi, would he also be giving hits to Akechi about your identity to amuse himself like he is to Joker? He's betting on Akechi winning after all.

>>382219434
Akechi got mad at Joker because he represents everything he isn't. Basically beta hates Chad.

>>382219434
Because despite Goro being canonically leagues more powerful than you, he was outsmarted by the power of BONDS

>>382235721
Joker isn't a Chad. He's Thad. Narukami is Chad.

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>>382235646
>But then Goro's plan makes no sense.
Correct, but that''s his actual plan.
>the Palace would be collapsing and no one could be brought in safely
Good for Goro that the Palace didn't collapse then. And good for PT that Goro didn't notice that. A more logical plan would be to have a small police squad placed outside the palace exit in the real world. As soon as the whole group appears you can capture them all.

>>382236053
>A more logical plan would be to have a small police squad placed outside the palace exit in the real world. As soon as the whole group appears you can capture them all.

Why the fuck didn't he do that? He'd get the whole group too. Why is Akechi so fucking dumb

How can you not know? Unless you never pay attention or skip dialogue it should be a thought in your head so much so that Akechi might not betray you because it was too obvious

>>382205717
The similarity between the name Adachi and Akechi was such an obvious sign. The second I found out his name was Akechi, I knew that he was the traitor.

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>>382235951
Joker is the new Chad. 4Yu is the model of last year.

>>382236157
Who knows. Goro's characterization is really inconsistent. Like in the palace he outsmarts Shadow Sae hard, but after that he's suddenly the most retarded detective ever. He knows where the rest of them live, so he can easily capture them all, even after Joker got kidnapped in the palace, but doesn't do so because "they are nothing without their leader", even though Makoto is technically calling all the shots.

>>382206525
I legit have autism and I figured it out when they first showed him off

>>382224110
Your brother sounds like a fucking asshole.

>>382213632
Pretty sure Igor comments that he was a shit Lord when he visited the velvet room. He was supposed to so shit for Philemon but he's dumb as hell

>>382236284
Ann is best girl, how can anyone even deny?¨

For all the other girls I almost never got bond points when just chatting with them, but with Ann I got it almost every dialogue choice.

She has the best personality

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>>382236284
Thads are social outcast versions of Chad. Joker is a social outcast, therefore he must be That.

>>382236776
Because Ann is fucking shit

>>382236776
Anne is probably the second easiest girl to get bond points with. First is Ohya, who likes it when you insult her.

>>382236576
Akechi wasn't really that smart. He solved crimes he created, his advantages were two years of experience and being the puppet of Yabadabadoo.

>>382236969
I just pick whatever dialogue I would say in the situation, not what the character I'm talking to would want to hear, and Ann almost always resonates well with it.

Truly best girl

>>382236189
I noticed that too. Easy puzzle.

>>382237039
You can't deny that he outsmarted all of the PT when dealing with Shadow Sae's bullshit.

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>>382237130
Can't disagree there.

>>382237039
>Yabadabadoo.

How's this guy power level compared to Nyx's Avatar and Izanami? Ruling out Izanami, it's just a fight between Nyx and Yabadabadoo. Although Nyx was a "real" entity while the later was just a self-imposed ruler that was created from the subconscious, just a really powerful Shadow. Nyx itself isn't a Shadow. So Nyx > Yabadadoo > Izanami?

>>382205717
i knew cause it was spoiled for me so whatever

>>382206525
I never ever get the "how did YOU know THAT?" twists. I have a feeling I caught it once while playing a zero escape game but it's been a plot point I've seen a dozen times already and always escapes me. I think its because I don't care enough about characters in video games. Or maybe my attention span, I'm always rereading lines 2, maybe 3 times in even the slowest games.

>>382209008
That was the dumbest fucking shit. Everything after Sae's is a mess.

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>>382236776
She is cute and innocent.

>>382237519
i liked it, akechi thought he won so you fuck him up in his hubris.

>>382219023
Fucking duh. His "death" is hidden for a reason.

>>382219434
Goro carved himself the perfect persona (ha ha), and everyone still hated him. Money (I guess? Apparently art book says he has maids or something), looks, etc.

>>382236776
>bro-tier
>never gives up
>faced with a challenge and heads for it
>canonically has huge tits
>wants to be an action star and not some oscar winning "take me seriously" actress
>when Ryuji sees her in a bikini and does a lame groping motion, she jokes about it

Undeniably best girl

>>382237519
It was a good idea but it was completely nonsensical, especially on Groo's part.
>Funnel entire squads of cops into the Metaverse using a single cellphone despite Groo already being in the Metaverse with you
>Expect none of them to ask questions
>Go and kill the hostage, despite the fact that if all of the cops are dirty they could kill him for you
>Don't even bother deactivating the camera that shows you killed the cop
>Don't do anything with the corpse, ignore the fact that people don't commit suicide from that angle
>Then, while the lead proseCUTEor takes the real Joker outside of the room and don't notice. Tell Daddy that the other Thieves aren't a threat.
>Laugh
So fucking stupid.

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>>382237669
>Caring about that boring, useless bimbo

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>>382237519
1) You can kill Akechi in Shido's Palace, never send the calling card, enter the bad end game over cutscene, and have a dead person (Akechi) shoots you in the face at the police station.

2) Despite being locked out of the Velvet Room in the best ending route, the fake Igor's gift of a Third Eye vision with L1 is still usable.

3) You can rent a DVD and never return it by the end of the game.

4) You can enter into a romantic relationship with Haru and the cutscene still plays with her ex-fiance in the true ending route. (Cutscene likely was ordered way in advance before they settled on the end game plot 100%).

5) Morgana being able to speak and be understood at the end despite the cognitive Metaverse not existing anymore, including their abilities. This is established when no one could use the Metaverse or Persona in January when Joker was in jail so they had to use average Joe powers to fix it.

6) Futaba being able to do extraordinary feats like "hacking" airwaves from her home while the entire Government is in high alert. Futaba sleeping through 25 consecutive days if you clear her dungeon the first day.

>>382225878
Akechi had never changed hearts before and had no idea how it worked.

>>382229597
>kills you with his dumb website
>Elite Beat Agents you back to reality so I guess it's OK now?

Mishima was a mistake.

>>382238545
>Akechi had never changed hearts before and had no idea how it worked.
He was investigating at least 4 cases involving a change of heart, where he easily could see the similarities and he most likely got an detailed explanation from the team when he joined.

>>382205717
I really wanted to see him rape Makoto in front of a helpless Joker, why is that?

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>>382238861
Mishima never intended for his website to cause that and being the guy who helps you beat Yaldabaoth with that same site does make up for it. Honestly he could have easily sold you out, during the time the Phantom Thieves had a bounty on his head and be set for life, but he was loyal as fuck.

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I didn't

>>382212068
>That's AKECHI'S COGNITION of Joker
But that's also wrong.

>>382237387
Nyarlathope. Dude fucked up the real world and didn't need a dark hour, midnight channel, or metaverse. Philemon had to reset reality because of Nyraly bullshit.

>>382239268
Not the anon you're replying to, but it's Sae's cognition isn't it?

>>382239323
Yep.

>>382239268
yeah its still part of the 'territory' of Sae's palace so its her cognition of Joker

>>382231415
everyone was already jumping to forgive him when he was like lol it was meeeeee

>>382237669
>at that scene on 12/16

pathetic

>>382206525
i'm not an autist, i just didn't pay attention to him, just like I never do whenever he's in the scene

>>382239625
The entire segment was cringe.

>>382234051
>Haru introduced at the start of the black mask "who dun it"

>she literally has a black mask

>>382239094
If you don't rank him to level 10 a random citizen starts supporting the Phantom Thieves instead of him. Mishima is irrelevant in every sense.

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>>382211747
Was getting caught part of your plan?

>>382239053
Because you're sick beta faggot with mommy issues i guess

>>382234814
i think youre overthinking it

i bet igor doesnt even use a specific term in the jap dialogue

>>382228042
>self induced psycho
that IS the real groo
>the moment she became the leader
that never happened and i'm not even a pathetic mokotafag

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>>382239625
No, don't start this meme. Ann, Morgana, and Futaba are the only party members who have a lapse of sanity. Especially Futaba who was just told word-for-word this is the man responsible for the mental shutdown in her mother's suicide.

Ryuji, Yusuke, and Haru all said they can empathize with his situation, but he's still a criminal and pitiable. Particularly Haru who told him she can't forgive him.

>>382240021
I argue that he isn't, even if you don't rank him fully up for that scene. His website is a big drive of the game's plot in general, and he was the one who still made it.

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>>382238351
She's too cute not to care about

>>382239687
That's a haremanon's footage who recorded every romance scene for us.

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>>382240094
Of course. We have to find out what you said about us.

>>382205717
>I have two personalities...

>nicest person you will ever meet
>twisted fucking psychopath

>>382240394
Most of the blame goes for Shidou though. Akechi still guilty, but they kinda soften up and give him a chance to turn himself while he still can because ehey know they can't steal his heart because he is a Persona user.

>>382234663
>that's what lisafags unironically believe
your waifu is a whore

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>>382237669
>instead of getting flustered or embarrassed like a typical anime girl she doubles down on it

Why is she so perfect?

>>382240436
Joker doesn't even consider him a friend. The phan-site would've eventually being created by either Futaba or any fan. Mishima just got lucky to be the first one.

>>382240735
fuck off, groo. you're a piece of shit. go shoot yourself in the face or something

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Why do people like Akechi? I can see why they'd like his as a tragic villain but he's such a shit fucking villain. He's just an even more poorly written version of Adachi, without all of his "fuck I really wanted to get laid by Mayumi" shit.
I'm only asking this because someone I know really likes Akechi for some reason and I have no idea why

>>382238476
2. If Igor is weak, why can I still fuse Personae when it's implied Lavenza is stepping up to assist him?

3. I don't get why you mentioned this one.

4. I wasn't positive about this, but a friend was pissed because he didn't finish Haru's yet. There is no way Haru would be in the same room as him after the end of her slink, let alone feigning being his fiancee

5. why didnt sae hear the kitty
why can kitty fix a truck

>>382241162
>Why do people like Akechi?

The only """""""people"""""""" that like Akechi are fujos and fags that like twinks

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>>382241150
STAY MAD, ATTIC TRASH!

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>>382241026
We're not arguing what ifs, we're arguing what actually happened. He made the Phan-Site, and no one else did (or before anyone could) and he's pretty much one of their unofficial members, being their information guy. As for friends, honestly, maybe not at the start, but they're definitely closer then before by the end of it all.

>>382241219
Nah, nips like him though. Only westerns who mostly hate him

>>382241415
You realize most fujos are nips right?

>>382205717
Since he joined my party, I honestly didn't expect it.

Didn't catch that pancake thing either.

>>382241345
post the website for our fans, guns for our haters pic

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Discuss.

>>382241162
The one good thing about Akechi is that I reckon they quite successfully made him subtly passive aggressive between attempts at being nice and polite.

I mean, it kind of made the plot twist obvious, but it's one of the better written elements in the game. I mean in terms of dialogue, rather than his place in the story which was shit.

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>>382238279

>It was a good idea but it was completely nonsensical

i mean, it's essentially the Code Geass section of the game

>>382206525
I didn't notice that, but I figured it was him pretty quickly. Just seemed like an obvious character to make the 'twist'. I was half expecting it to be a double bluff and Morgana to have some attachment to the murderer, hence why they made Akechi seem obvious.

>>382206525
People didn't catch on because he joins the scene literally a minute after someone said pancakes, it's one of those moments which slip by and have to be notticed by mostly accident. In real life i'd have noticed something like this but when playing videogames my brain goes in cruise control.

>>382241527
I know that, but non-fujo nips doesn't have enormous hate for Goro like in here. Mostly they just waiting for what Atlus has store of him in the spinoff.

Why did they make Goro Akechi sound so similar to Tohru Adachi

What about the Takoyaki scene where Akechi eats the "special one"?
Wasn't that some brilliant allegory...right..?

>>382238476
>You can rent a DVD and never return it
Truly the greatest of the Phantom Thieves crimes.

>>382241789
Why did they make Yusuke sound so similar to Yosuke

Why did they make Ryuji sound so similar to Ryoji

>>382241345
>being their information guy.
Besides minor requests Joker usually takes the main ones personally. He is at best an acquaintance. Futaba is obviously better when it's about sending a message or anything Internet related for the PT (See: Shido's calling card).

Mona screams in the screen he and his friends are going to save the world and encourages the people of Japan. Mishima is just not really relevant.

>>382241689
Yeah I feel that the only good part of his "plan" was his slow deception

>>382241282
Yeah the "person" in question ships him with P5 Protag and I think Ryuiji

>>382241676
Of course i wouldn't, duuuh.

Why do you think people love Futaba and hate Mishima, despite her being even more of a annoying beta loser?

>>382241910
Phantom Thieves did Blockbuster in CONFIRMED.

>>382205717
Didn't catch the pancake thing, I had a gut feeling because of the Akechi/Adachi similarity then when he joined the party and saw on his confidants page that he didn't have any confidant abilities left to unlock while the arcana was only like rank 7 or 8 I knew it was him.

>>382206945

It was a Wild Card

But he literally had no bonds to develop it further, so it just manifested itself as his two faces. Idealistic hero of justice Robin Hood, and the douchebag Loki.

>>382242053
it isn't possible to be more of a beta loser than mishima is

Akechi was 100% right about the Phantom Thieves though. Their "dude brainwashing is sometimes justifiable lmao" were literally criminal acts, and their 'justice' was purely relative. In any case, their justice was primarily motivated by hatred of adults, which was a stupid and immature ideology.

He's one of those rare top-tier villains who is more right than the protagonists.

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>>382241586

>>382241928
Futaba didn't join till Palace 4, so he still had to handle that role, till she joined, and he still continued to handle it, after she joined. Morgana also praises Mishima at times throughout the game too, so it's not like he doesn't get some recognition from the Thieves whether he knows it or not.

>>382242483
ty friend. ill kill you last after the alignment lock.

>>382206525
Immediately realized when he asked about it because I was genuinely curious about the stadium they were discussing and paid close attention.
I felt super proud of myself until I realized that I still have no friends and live with my dad at 29, which really soured the game for me because I couldn't not think about it while watching these happy teenagers live fulfilling lives.

>>382242053
>Futaba is a valuable member of The PT.
>Mishima leaked the record of Joker and is partially responsable of Shiho being raped.
Oh jeez I wonder.

>>382242621
I'm in the same boat, only I'm 31. When I was in high school I had friends. So don't worry, they can grow up to be miserable just like us.

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>>382242621
25 with no friends and I live with my sister

>>382241676
Yup. Same way that only Fujos sympathize with Ken after he killed based Shinji.

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>the moment you realize Joker made a lifelong friend and ally out of Sae, someone whose only purpose at the time was arresting him for life, while drugged, in a single interrogation session
>will probably slam that prosepussy in P5C before that same day's end

How could Yuu POSSIBLY compete?

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Please stop making threads about this outdated turn-based sexually-harassing Japanese game.

>>382242483
>he still continued to handle it, after she joined.
Of course not. He just manages the site. Main info is now thanks to Futaba, Makoto and Akechi

>Morgana also praises Mishima at times throughout the game too, so it's not like he doesn't get some recognition from the Thieves
Ryuji is more useful than Mishima and Mona still says shit about him.

Mishima is USELESS.

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>>382243126

>>382243117
Because Narukami is such an alpha that women literally can't get mad at him for cheating. Chie, Naoto, Yukiko, or Rise, they all know what he's doing. And yet they keep coming back.

That's the most Chad thing a Chad can do.

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>>382243112
It's literally been 10 years since that happened and I'm still upset about it. Fuck Ken, fuck that little faggot robbing me of one of the best party members. I'm not even mad at the person who pulled the trigger, the entire situation was created by Ken being a thundering faggot who is probably on par with Akechi. Both of them planned convoluted revenge schemes that fall flat on their faces.

>No Shinji and Haru in Persona Q2 without really complicating the plot

FUCK KEN.

>>382241789
To really dive in the point he's a traitor.

>>382237215
>>382236189
me too bros

>>382238919
He was never told the palace collapses or about what the metaverse app says. He did know that they started acting weird after the change of heart but that would take him a long time to figure out and him monitoring Sae. He learns he was tricked by the time shidos palace ends.

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>>382243117
>Did everything she could to save him
>Told him things that she hasn't told even Makoto yet
>Call me if anything happens
She's pretty thirsty alright

>>382243197
>Of course not. He just manages the site. Main info is now thanks to Futaba, Makoto and Akechi

I'll give you that. But his role is still something.

>Ryuji is more useful than Mishima and Mona still says shit about him.
>Mishima is USELESS.

No he isn't. You can argue he's not as useful to the main party, compared to the main party members (which makes sense since he isn't a party member), but that doesn't make his contributions to the group for naught either.

>>382243512
>>382243112
Ken, like Yukari, only becomes likeable in the movies and in the spin offs. Both The Journey and The Answer have then portrayed as huge cunts.

>>382243954
>t.Mishima
Even GET SMOKED kid bullies you. You're that pathetic.

>>382243753
>He was never told the palace collapses or about what the metaverse app says.
He doesn't need to be told. He watched them during 3 palace, one where he was there during the collapse. He also already used the Metaverse to kill palace owners, so he knows how the app work what it says after a palace vanishes.

>He did know that they started acting weird after the change of heart but that would take him a long time to figure out and him monitoring Sae.
Don't understand what you're trying to say. The victims started acting weird the moment the palace vanishes, he knows that as part of the investigation, but Sae didn't show any signs of a change of heart.

>>382226398
>>382226314
Why

>>382243859
Why did she ask what her treasure was? Didn't she understand the plan?

>>382241676
i still rape her.

>>382229976
Yabadabadoo straight up says that he picked Akechi and Akira to play his game. Of course they're both wild cards

sae is bae
that is all

>>382245560
tae is bae

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Why did Atlus put so little effort into making the relationship/rivalry with Akechi even remotely compelling

You hardly fucking interact with him outside of throwaway bits at Leblanc and he never had any big moments until the betrayal

>>382219023
I think a dungeon will be added where you can choose to steal his heart and redeem him in NG+.

>>382245981
Don't worry, fujos will fix that.

>>382238476
>3) You can rent a DVD and never return it by the end of the game.

Ok, I need to do that in New Game+

I assumed he was evil, but I didn't think he was THAT evil
I thought it was gonna be typical anime shit where he's got some ulterior motive but abandons it to save the PT

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>>382242621
>>382242883
>>382242747
Try to get a job and friends and do what you want then. I'm not saying its just that easy but still

>>382245376
Demiurge/Yaldaboth picked Joker years after he picked Akechi, though. Akechi was working for Shido w/ Loki prior to Futaba's death.

>>382246129
>Steal a heart from a Persona user
In nu-Persona lore, you can't have a Shadow/Palace if you have a Persona, because they're the same thing.

>>382206525
I didn't catch pancakes but I wasn't suprised when the UNDERCOVER COP wasnt actually a criminal

The PT are fucking immature assholes.

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Honestly if he encountered them in the metaverse and allied with them then he probably would've earned their trust.

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>mfw to smart to find whether the body you shot was removed from the interrogation room

>>382247786
Back to your cell, Madarame

>>382247651
What's nu-persona to you? because you can clearly go back to previous dungeons in 4 even if your party member already got a persona. Shit didn't crumble to pieces there

Cognition (P5) and everyone else's cognition of you (P4) seem to work differently; same with 3

As for akechi... well no one that didn't get spoiled by the datamining back in the day could say that goro was the big twist with 100% confidence. It was too obvious for him to be the traitor, but the twist was that he actually was one

But the other twist also was that they were aware of him and outplayed the fuck out of him

And then the other twist was Igor, who also had a mini-gamble in it since they went for a more sinister voice and some people here and there believed that something shady was up

And they were right

>>382231361
The only part of their phones that stopped working in cognitive space was the camera app.

>>382248783
They were obviously out of service too.

>>382248392
nu-Persona is anything past Eternal Punishment, so 3-5.

In order to have a Palace, you need to have a Shadow to rule over said Palace. Since P3, Shadows = Persona, so if you have a Persona you cannot have a Palace.

The reason why dungeons didn't crumble in P4 is because those weren't Palaces, those were just part of the Midnight Channel.

>>382248783
>everything works except the phone app that would have been useful
See how this is a bit too convenient?

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>>382205717
i just thought he had a fine-tuned taste for breakfast confections

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I thought Akechi was way too obvious, so I thought there was a possibility he was a red herring with the real traitor being Mishima.

Mishima would basically be Adachi 2.0. Still think it would have been better than what we got. But, I guess I can't see Mishima being a killer.

>>382250219
Adachi wasn't a complete loser like Mishima though

>>382250219
This, I was convinced the twist would be that Mishima was going to kill Akechi for going after the Phantom Thieves. Not so much a traitor as a throwback to the 4chan kid in P4.

MY SOLE INTEREST IS UNCOVERING THE TRUTH