Do you think game developers should like video games?

You probably have to enjoy video games in some capacity to make one that others will like.

Yes.

>>382093135
Vieo game developers can be whatever they want, just not Californian.

Western games are shit, because western devs hate videogames

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>>382093135
You should at least like them more than your political/ideological views

>>382093135
no

Kojima draws inspiration from movies. It's pretty clear he's never played a video game other than his own in his life

>>382093135
Depends. I'm sure there are very talented programers, QA specialist's, and mathematicians that can do a ton for a video game without being into them

Not necessarily. Doesn't change the fact that literally who? is a worthless faggot, as are most western devs.

>>382093135
In the same way the best filmmakers do it out of love, the best and most talented musicians all LOVE music, yes, video games should be no exception. It's going to show in your product if you do not actually love games. Good games are born out of love, and it always shows.

>>382093135
not necessarily. i mean, some interesting shit has been made by people that didn't play much of anything beforehand. i'd rather play some of that shit than an rpg maker game made by the world's biggest final fantasy fan for instance.

>>382093459
Neil "See a nigger, pull the trigger" Druckmann

>>382093135
ABSOLUTELY NOT, your favorite games were not made by "gamers"
you know that kid in school that wanted to grow up to make videogames? videogames today are YOUR FAULT because you didn't do your duty and bully that kid into a better man

videogames should be made by professional talent that want to have a hobbyist project in something different, as it always was
they should not be made by people that were "driven to make videogames"

>>382093135
No.

>>382093461
kojima loves another world and portopia, so he's actually got better taste than half of /v/

>>382093135
Nah. It's a product, not art or some shit like that. I mean, there's probably a shitload of developers who love vidya and haven't been able to spit out one decent game.

>>382093459
Why? art is political.

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>>382093135
>it's all babies first flash games
people like this are why people assume the worst one it comes to indiepixelshit.

>>382093135
I'm pretty sure aonuma did not play videogames until breath of the wild development started

>>382093587
wtf i love twitter personalities now

>>382093587
there are a lot of retards these days that want to make "the next minecraft" or "the next chrono trigger" or something and then end up making some shitty derivative garbage. what these dickheads don't realize is that the creators of their favorite games actually had inspirations outside of video games that influenced their shit. like yuji horii, he just saw wizardry and was like, wow, this is cool, but it's too autistic. i bet i could do it better. and then he did.

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>>382093459

>>382093135
Yes because when there is no love for the craft you end up with committee produced garbage made solely for the purpose of making money like the latest cookie cutter Asscreed or bamham clone.

>>382093135
Not really, they'll just be making games that literally 0 people in the world like

>>382093461
>>382093652
He got shit on here a few years ago because he went gaga over Titanfall on the Xbone.

"i'm an author because i love to ___Write Books____ not because i like books"

>>382093135
What's the point of creating a game if you don't like it in the end? Why even participate in the community if you don't like the core aspect of it? It seems kinda pointless to me desu. But hey, as long as they're making good games, I don't really care. As long as they know what the consumers actually want.

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>>382093135
>my choice of canvas for making """art"""

>>382093135
>I make shitty pixel art for flash games someone else codes
>I'm a gamedev
I don't like this meme.

>>382093135
>I like writing books not because I like reading them but because I like writing them.
>I like acting not because I enjoy watching theatre but because I like acting.
>I like playing music not because I like listening to music but because I like playing it.

Thats how retarded he sounds. Holy fuck.

would you make music if you didnt like music?
would you make movies if you didnt enjoy movies?
well, if you did, your work would probably come across as self satisfying and hollow.
so yeah, you should probably like the medium your working in.
what a wanker.

>>382093135
Maybe not like playing them, but they should like them.

They should seek that feeling that comes from seeing someone enjoying something they've created.

If you make video games to evoke an emotion or present your "artistic vision," why are you making games and not something else?

>>382093135
I think the lead devs or the gameplay director or some shit should at least like video games
For everyone else it doesn't really matter

>>382093909
All of that is valid

>>382093819
All of the YA authors are like this

>>382093703
Literally everything is political, because "politics" is the process of deciding how we structure society. It's hilarious that anybody thinks they can divorce anything, let alone art (inb4 "vidya isn't art," that's obviously not the point), from politics.

Games are political, music and movies and TV are political, animu is political. Hell, even your groceries and furniture and toothpaste are political.

>>382093972
Don't pretend to be retarded. It's not suiting for someone of your higher caliber, anon.

>>382093551
you are retarded as fuck

the classics werent technically made by gamers because these kind of video games didnt even existed before them, but that doesnt mean that the devs werent fucking passionate about entertainment, fun and other kind of games in general. A hipster artsy guy who isn't passionate about any kind of games in general will surely not make the same kind of fun gameplay as someone who still understands and feels the childish enjoyment that games can provide.

>>382094034
How is it retarded? I enjoy writing. I don't enjoy reading. I enjoy painting. I do not enjoy going to art galleries and looking at art.

These are very common views. Please stop distorting reality to fit your narrative.

>>382093759

>creators of their favorite games actually had inspirations outside of video games

> yuji horii, he just saw wizardry and was like, wow, this is cool

Well you fucked that up now, didn't you?

>>382093135
Not necessarily. The idea that they should is something that independent gamedevs and hobbyists perpetuate, but at the end of the day, what difference does it make if they do or don't like videogames? All that matters is how competently they make them to the end-user.

Moreover, there are a lot of gamedevs (indie and otherwise) that love videogames, but make crap. How much they like them has little bearing at the end of the day.

>>382093135

Not necessarily. There are plenty of filmmakers that don't really like watching movies, for example. But 99% it's going to be better if they do like video games.

>>382093772
He's not entirely wrong, but that headline is not entirely right. It should say "video games are better off not being glorified movies." Stories/narrative in vidya are best when they are made interdependently with the gameplay, rather than in spite of it. When a game is overloaded with cutscenes or QTEs that take agency away from the player, they might as well be 3d movies instead of games. All these ebin directors/writers don't understand that as a medium, vidya has an interactivity component that no other media has, and instead of working with that to make "art," they work in spite of it and make a lesser product as a result.

>>382093135
Is this like speedrunners who like speedrunning but don't enjoy videogames?

liking video games and making video games are very different things. I'm sure you could dissuade a lot of those "I want to work for VIDJAGAEM" fags by having 'introduction to programming' classes in high school

>>382094070
also meant to reply to
>>382093759
and
>>382093587

>>382093135
Obviously if you don't like the gameplay how can you expect others to.
Also devs need to get their faggy leftist politics the fuck out of video games and go back to creating an enthralling adventure.
I played prey recently and the game was great but there was a minor focus on same sex relationships in the game and it was so fucking forced, wasn't a side thing it was part of the main quest necessary to complete the game.
Now I'm playing system shock and all the audio logs are about the havoc shodan is wreaking and there is nothing about two sissy fucks having a tiff.

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>>382094091
>I do it! That means it's valid!

>>382094202
I didn't see you answer the question

>>382094034
The most well-regarded authors (from Hemingway to Shakespeare to Cicero) throughout the ages hated their contemporaries. Most truly talented musicians dislike the majority of music because they're able to see how objectively bad it is.

>>382093135
literally who and why should I care?

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In my experience, the best games always feel like the creators had fun making them, with lots of little details, care, and passion exuding from their work.

>>382094091
And i bet anything that your writing and painting is shit.

>>382094091
Name me one notable writer or musician that didn't enjoy reading or listening to music in some capacity.

>>382093135
Had this guy made anything actually good though, that's the real question

Because i don't know who the fuck this is

>>382094240
>It's a common thing! So many people are like this!
>Only the most famous people in their field are like this!

choose one.

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>>382093706
>our longterm project is Valence
>http://valencegame.tumblr.com/

For someone who "loves the process of making games" that's like no progress for 4 months. No gifs of gameplay, not even a fullscreen screenshot. Even a third grader would have a prototype up with programmer art within the 1 month mark of basic gameplay elements.

Sad to say, this guy doesn't seem to be a game dev. Why are we having a Twitter thread about him again? Even complaining about the Space Invaders guy would be more productive, that way people who generalize "all Western devs are shit" can fall on their swords.

>>382094034
making games is a validating experience even if you don't actually like playing them though. it's why a lot of your favorite developers stopped playing games when they started making them.

>>382094384
see >>382093706

>>382094010
Thank you Professor Mosheberg

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check out this advanced game design mockup from this non-gamer. His real world life experiences truly prepared him.

Not that he actually programs (aka makes games).

>>382094240
>>382094091

>These are common views
>The most famous authors were like this

are you telling me...everyone has the capacity to become a famous author....woah....

>>382094240
Shit, premature post.

To add to that, the only way any medium can evolve is through outside influence. It doesn't mean you have to hate it necessarily, but if you're completely satisfied with what's already out there you're never going to make anything truly unique or revolutionary. MGS took influence from cinema and changed the way we think of games as a medium for telling stories, Half-Life took that idea and adapted it to suit videogames' unique strengths.

>>382094502
Whoa... pushing le medium...... forward..........

>>382094442
Oh, so no one important who has done nothing significant

Ok

>>382093706
>shit is so ugly and pixelated that you can't even read the title.

>>382094386
>>382094503
Where the fuck did I say that? I'm not >>382094091 you mongoloids.

>>382094116
yuji horii also was just a genuinely interesting and insightful dude though, he didn't just love games. he looked at wizardry and saw what was fundamentally wrong with it and made a game that had a lot more substance and staying power. he was inspired by wizardry, but his other influences are why dragon quest is a more interesting series.

>>382094070
i agree on your last point but disagree on the general notion that people who don't care about games can't care about making them. look at katamari damacy, it doesn't share anything with anything. it's still good and interesting and fun though.

>>382094502
this...is truly the power of...disliking video games...

>>382094572
Pretty much. The OP must severely be reaching if we're supposed to generalize game developers off someone who can't even finish one fuckin medium sized game

OP is almost as much of a loser as this random """"dev"""" is.

>>382094606
You cant convince me that more than one person on this cold earth can possibly be this retarded. Sorry anon.

on one hand, its possible to make games professionally as a job while not playing them very much. The processes for making a game don't usually require game experience (except for game design).

However, liking games gives the project context and purpose. Plus, if you enjoy playing good games, then making them becomes a passion instead of a job.

>>382093815
Kojima lost his edge after MGS3.

>>382094502
theres nothing i hate more than artists who draw a whole bunch of generic sprites and say their "looking for a programmer".
it basically translates to "i want someone else to make my crayon drawings into a game that i can take credit for."

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>>382093135
>MUH CANVAS
>MUH ART
complete fucking degenerate subhuman worthless piece of trash who couldn't make it anywhere else, so he had to settle for video games to spread his shittyness no one wanted or asked for.
This is why most modern games suck so hard, because the video game industry somehow got overrun by faggots like him nowadays.

>>382094668
What the fuck are you on about, making art assets is about 80% of the workload. Programmers aren't really important in modern indies, an artist can make his design work in blueprints and that would be it. Wouldn't be very optimised, but it's not a problem for indies, they're not pushing the capacity of the system.

>>382093402
>actually believing this
>when konami and capcom exist
Konami hates games so much that they killed a series to turn it into a pachinko game.

>>382093459
>https://boards.fireden.net/v/search/filename/cuckmann.jpg/

Good fucking lord anon.

>>382095042
>making art assets is about 80% of the workload.

you fucking what. I can't even tell you how fucking wrong you are

>>382095058
Kojima hates videogames so much he turned them into movies. He is singlehandedly responsible for the dearth of cutscene corridors, qte-fests, walking sims and braindead gameplay we have today.

Konami did literally nothing wrong by putting that shitty series out to pasture.

>>382093587
Whew autism

So indie devs are outright admitting they hate vidya now?

You can make a videogame without liking games, but in almost every instance I can think of it usually results in the game feeling soulless. If we're looking at indie devs, just look at the difference between something like shovel knight and furi to Gone Home. Both of the former feels like they were made by people who have played many games, and understands what makes them fun, while the latter is made by a pretentious art student who has probably never touched a game in his life.

Most videos games _should_ have a narrative because people are drawn to _stories_. So unless it's a competitive game like Tekken, Rocket League, CS;GO, PUBG, etc. Put a story in or it's just a fuckin empty hack n slash. Even still, some competitive games have lore behind them them.
E.g. Overwatch characters all have personalities/backstories (Also those animated shorts are bad ass, only reason I even got the game)

Imagine playing any Gears of War without any cutscenes or backstory or character development, it would just be fuckin go here and shoot fuckers. That would be the most boring bullshit ever.

Non-Competitive games need a _story_.

>>382093135
Makes no difference, they usually have an army of testers who tell them if it's fun or not.

However if you do something for a living it sours you to it.

No self respecting adult would be caught dead playing video games. Most game developers are self respecting adults.

>>382095058
Konami doesn't hate video games, you chucklefuck parrot clown.
They just don't see it as lucrative.
MUH NINTENDO used to run whorehouses and do all kinds of other shit before they ventured into video games - they did not invent them like so many Nintendicksuckers believe.
So once MUH NINTENDO stops seeing vidya as lucrative they will drop it harder and faster than a nig his offspring and move to something else.

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>>382094665
More like he couldn't rip off Escape from New York and other films because he burnt through them all.

http://metalgear.wikia.com/wiki/Media_influences_on_the_Metal_Gear_series

Kojima's always been a hack. His games are generally good, of course, but creative? Nah

>>382095302
I don't think videogames are the right medium for you anon

>>382095182
You can't because I'm not wrong. You probably have no clue how much time it takes to model, texture and animate shit. That's 80% of your time on the game. Unless your game looks like garbage of course, in which case how go and hire an artist, mr programmer, your game about walking among untextured cubes is not minimalist, it's just shit

>>382093135
I understand liking to code without liking games, but liking design? Pure bullshit.

>>382093135
It's the number 1 requirement. Everything else is secondary or tertiary.
You can't make a good video game if you don't know and understand what is fun to play and what is not and just make something for the sake of making it.

>>382093135
I think developers (and creative people in general) should do what they themselves want to do
But they should also realise that it may not be successfull to be creative in a medium that you don't enjoy personally or maybe don't understand fully

>>382093135
Yes. There is no possibility of someone who isn't all that into games understanding how to make a good one. None at all.

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>>382095365
Whoah, really made me think

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Yes

I'm an employed illustrator/graphic designer, but I hate most art, it's like the same thing (almost).

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>>382096032
>that message at the end of Furier difficulty that says "Thank you for playing Furi the right way" that triggered all the shitters on leddit and neofag

>>382095042
t. art student

>>382096207
>mfw people actually get mad about that shit
Remember when people were boycotting Wolfenstein TNO because of its difficulty selection?

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>Failed movie directors who come to the video game industry because the bar for quality is set lower
Sad!

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>>382096207
>Good job little Billy you did very well on the test, you practiced and practiced and you got a perfect score. Your studying the right way

>Oh so the rest of us who didn't study and just barely made it with a c- then said the test was just bad did it the "wrong" way??

>Yes

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>>382093135
>"I like making videogames, but I don't like playing videogames"
What a faggot.
It's like saying "I like writing books, I don't like reading them" or "I like to talk hot shit, but I don't want to listen to others talking hot shit".

What the little fuckboy is doing is literally closing himself off from others' opinions in a safe space.

How can you make a good game if you don't even what makes a game fun?
How can you write a book without knowing what makes a good book?
How can you claim to present a good argument if you don't want to listen to others' arguments?

Videogames are like a dialogue between the developer and the player, where the player asks the developer to provide a new and fun experience. What the faglord is doing is equivalent to covering his ears and monologuing, and then complaining that no one likes his shit.

You are making a game for someone to enjoy, you fucking idiot! If no one has fun while playing your game, then your game loses its meaning entirely! It's not a game at that point, it's just some fucking retarded "art statement" that has absolutely nothing to do with what videogames are about: actually playing and having fun.

What a fucking retard.

if the end product succeeds what it intends to it doesn't really matter

>>382094668
literally starbound

>>382093135

this is the type of person who whines about refunds, they have no respect for the medium, they think they're above it and that that makes it easy for them to be "better" at it than the rest.

>>382093389
Fuck off, Herbie.

>>382094351
Not him, and I'm not disputing your point, but many writers hate to write (although I've never heard of a prominent writer that hated to read). Victor Hugo had to lock away all of his clothes in order to force himself inside his house so that he could write without distractions.

>>382093135
It would be better to actually like it but I guess it's not inherently necessary, specially if your job is more technical. I can't imagine Carmack sitting down and playing a game, at least just for fun. Maybe to see aspects of the engine or something.

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>>382093135
Who is this person? All I got is he's a random European with no accreditation on a game or degree.

Does he just make shovelware and pixelart and tweet a lot? Why are you reading his tweets?

Is that you Kelly?

>>382094351
Easy. Many musicians hate their own music. I can't say the same about writers though.

>>382096961
Douglas Adam supposedly had to be actively forced by the agent to write.

>>382097157
Hating music and hating your own are two very different things. People who are exceptionally talented through years of practice tend to be hyper-critical of their own work (and others but it'd be impolite to express it)

>>382093135
The average quality dip between now and back in the golden age just after the first crash where it was pretty much only enthusiasts making them should make the answer fairly obvious. Way too many people in the industry using the medium as a way to elevate themselves and not the medium.

>>382097157
Do they hate others' music? Because that's what the tweet in the OP post above - "I don't want to play others' games, I just want to make my games!".

You can hate writing, but do it well, but you can't hate READING and then WRITE well.

>>382097252
>the medium

>>382093135
No. One of the biggest problems with games today are how derivative they tend to be, and someone who doesn't like or play video games has a stronger chance of coming up with novel gameplay concepts for better or for worse.

I'm still reaching out to find who the fuck this person is and why anyone is supposed to care

>>382093135
How can you make a good video game, if you don't even like playing the damn things?

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>>382097097
>All I got is he's a random European with no accreditation on a game or degree.
Euros are truly worthless to the gaming industry

>>382097438
Eastern Euros are the exception obviously.

>>382093135
Depends on their roll in development.

>>382097438
In fact lets do the list.

Worthwhile European countries for games:

England
Poland
Ukraine
....

>>382097259
Not necessarily. It all depends on how a person is exposed to the arts and at what age.

>>382097603
I guess you could add Russia (Tetris) and Turkey (Butterlord) but its just those two games

i find that for the west, a lot of people working in the industry are people that dont actually play games. most artists are too busy honing their art skills and working to play games, and thats basically 80% of the game being made by people that dont play, when it comes to coding and programming and shit, its probably more test heavy so i assume they have to play to some extent to make sure their shit works

and thats kind of the sad thing, games are being produced in such a rigid pipeline and has such high budget that all the nuance and creativity is just gone and you just have games being churnned out to siphon money out of people that are willing to buy the same shit over and over

>>382097621
You still have to be exposed to them somehow. You can't just create a masterpiece without any real basis or background.

>>382097493
>Witcher
>Stalker
Good but 2 games don't justify an entire region.

EEs are just as shit as WEs, but I'm willing to give them more slack due to gommunism

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All of the greatest games ever made come from people who loved the medium.
Hidetaka Miyazaki wanted to make vidya after playing Ico
Hideki Kamiya wanted to make games because of all the memories he had in the arcade.
Even Kojima decided to create games after playing SMB for the first time.

If you take inspiration from films and literature instead of video games then you are deliberately hampering the medium by shackling it to superior artforms.

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>>382094502
even non-gamer artists know how to do lighting

>>382093135
As long as he can extract passion from that hatred, I don't mind.
"These videogames suck, I'll show them" is as much valid as "I fucking love videogames, I'll show them"

>>382093135
They don't have to, but, it will be reflected in their work

It depends on their role, really.

If it's a programmer or writer for a AAA company, shit doesn't really matter as long as the end result is good and the creative director behind it loves video games.

If you're an indie developer, I'd say it would be very beneficial if you love video games, because you'll actually have some ideas on how to design them.

That all being said, you also have to remember that Nintendo started out as a toy company, and video games to early Nintendo were nothing more than toys. As such, you don't really need to know how to design a game, just how to make something fun and enjoyable.

>>382093135
if they don't even enjoy what the make then what is the point other than feeding their massive ego's in the only way they can

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I can kinda understand devs who enjoy more making games than playing games. Sometimes coding and drawing etc. can be thrilling enough to be considered "game" to them. I think this applies to people like John Carmack. I don't know if he's a gamer or if he actually spends multiple hours in week on playing vidya, but to me he seems more like a tech guy who enjoys creating the tech and seeing other people find joy in that technology.

Of course a good game dev understands what makes a good game. Carmack knows this. He could be making interactive movies, but he knows that shit doesn't roll with the gamer crowd.

>>382094010
Alright, explain to me how van Gogh's Wheat Field with Cypresses is political. I'll wait.

>>382097689
You can though. Look at ZUN as an example.

>>382097801
he "was never into em much", doubt he even knows the faults or why they suck.

>>382093135
If he doesn't like playing videogames then I doupt his ability to understand how to make a game that's fun to play.

>>382097941
He's definitely a gamer. I mean, one of the reasons why he even wanted to make video games is because he wanted PC games at the time to have the same scrolling capabilities as Super Mario Bros. on the NES did.

He's definitely more technically inclined though. He's not so much interested in the core gameplay, but more the tech of the game itself. This led to great things like DOOM and Quake, but also to bad things like DOOM 3 and RAGE.

>>382098001
This.
A game dev who hates video games wouldn't have the ability to create solid game mechanics, and they wouldn't have a grasp on storytelling through gameplay either.
They're intentionally shooting themselves in the foot by ignoring the medium.

>>382097969
zun just rips from other games lmoa
http://embed.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm9106563

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>>382097750
>If you take inspiration from films and literature instead of video games then you are deliberately hampering the medium by shackling it to superior artforms.
So take Kojima out of your post, because he didn't make a platformer after being "inspired" by SMB. He made MGS4, which is more of a movie than a game. He's a hack

>>382097969
>implying ZUN wasn't exposed to "bullet hell" games
>implying ZUN isn't influenced by other games
>implying ZUN's music wasn't influenced from outside sources
Hell, >implying Touhou is a masterpiece

The only thing Touhou got going for it is its rampant fanbase. The gameplay is solid, but not stellar - there are better bullet hell games, the music is great, but everything else is utter shit.

>>382097750
they don't 'love the medium' in the same way brainwashed consumers do
the only game developers who get hyped and buy all the crap the industry spews out are new hires

>>382098267
He made MGS1, 2 & 3, fuck even MGSV used the medium of vidya well.
Sure they're all very cinematic but contained within them Kojima knows w2hat separates a game from a movie.

>>382098267
Mgs4 had lots of cut scene and because of that people neglect the normal amount of gameplay

>>382098203
>He's definitely a gamer
>He's not so much interested in the core gameplay
what did he mean by this

>>382098369
He personally placed all the enemies and their paths in mgs1 too

>>382098369
>>382098378
No, read the quoted post.

>If you take inspiration from films and literature instead of video games then you are deliberately hampering the medium by shackling it to superior artforms.
http://metalgear.wikia.com/wiki/Media_influences_on_the_Metal_Gear_series

This statement describes Kojima to a T.

>>382096681
Wow, this is the most autistic post I've read today.

>How can you make a good game if you don't even what makes a game fun?
You don't have to like video games to know if something is fun or not, and you don't have to like video games to take feedback from players.

>what videogames are about: actually playing and having fun
You don't get to define what video games are about. Games mean different things to different people. I could just as easily say that games are strictly about competition and that any game that isn't competitive isn't a real video game and that its designer has no understanding of what games are about. Just because you have a particular preference for the games you enjoy doesn't mean that any game outside your preferences is meaningless. And getting angry about some literally who making games you're never going to play is beyond stupid.

>>382098369
A game that's more cutscene than gameplay does not use the medium of video games well

>>382098426
He plays games, but focuses more on tech than actual gameplay?

It's pretty damn obvious.

>i don't like music
>but my incoherent screaming is a form of art, music being the canvas
he's allowed to, but don't be surprised if both musicians and listeners don't like it

>>382093135
If they don't like video games, they obviously won't be able to tell the difference between a good one and a bad one. It's why the suits always fuck things up.
>indie
Into the trash it goes

>>382097438
arcane is european(not eastern)

>>382098521
he barely plays games at all, he might not even play the games he creates, he's the classic example of a developer who isn't a gamer and every id game after doom has suffered because of it

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>only makes low grade indie trash
well color me surprised

>>382094010
No politics is related to the function of government. They are not societal unless you live in 1984.

>>382098632
>makes
That's a strong word for a person who has never shipped a decent-sized game.

I don't even know why we're having this thread. He's not even an indie dev, no matter what he calls himself

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I can't stand it when people complain about Racist Mario. Games ARE political!!

>>382098712
>I don't even know why we're having this thread.
cause we like to bitch about non vidya shit

>>382093248
Fpbp

>>382093135
What games has this person made?

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Did this faggot even make any games?
It's been nearly 200 posts and I don't know who the fuck this cunt is and why I should care.

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>>382097603
>England
We hold the honour of the only non-japanese Smash Bros character.

>>382095042
>he thinks being a game "artist" is like drawing shit
>not a highly specialized form of mathematics too mathy for even regular C++ programmers
bro, do you even shader?

So why is it that these people always, without an exception, turn out to be crazy lefties?
What is it about liberalism that makes people go
>fuck video games
but also makes them want to reform the entire industry to suit their taste?

>>382093135
It's actually more common than you think. Having passion in vidya doesn't always translate into having passion in playing vidya.

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>I eat chocolate cake because I love eating chocolate cake, not because I love chocolate cake

>>382093135

I make art because I love _making art_, not because I love _art_ (because I don't, was never into em much).

>>382099229
>he thinks being a game "artist" is like drawing shit
it is
people who program shaders aren't artists

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>>382098629
>>382098521
>>382098426
>the man who was annoyed that there was no games on his phone so he made a game for it doesn't play games
art students, everywhere.

>>382099281
most game developers, or creative people in general are 'lefties'

>>382099298
What a surprise that the best devs in the industry are western indies and Japanese developers then.
Because they actually play other video games.

All of the creative directors you see in western AAA studios these days are literally just failed movie directors.

>>382099325
what you think artists are, are barely a step above the sound guy and the person who updates the website.

No one cares about your fucking concept art. Now stuff your stupid pictures into this tool so it gets cut up properly for the engine and go back to your crayons.

>>382097438
t. burgershit who doesn't realise how many "american" games aren't american
Let me list some of the Euro games
Mafia
Mirror's Edge
Just Cause
Battlefield
Castlevania Lords of Shadows
GTA
Bulletstorm
Crysis
Beyond Good & Evil
Ghost Recon
Dishonored
Killzone
Horizon Zero Dawn
Hitman
Max Payne
Alan Wake
Heavy Rain
Batman Arkham
Forza
Motorstorm
PGR
Burnout
Carmageddon
Trackmania
Driver
GRID
Dirt
F1
Timesplitters
Outrun 2
Banjo-Kazooie
Viva Pinata
Perfect Dark
Total War
Alien Isolation
Goldeneye
Fable
Black and White
Crackdown
Little Big Planet
Tearaway
etc

>>382099410
what the fuck are you even talking about
game artists do no programming, they make 2d or 3d artwork using tools any other artist would use

You can be good at something and not like it.

>>382099469
80% of those are shit, especially the soulless AAA trash.

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>>382099487
>artists do 80% of the work
>artists only make 3D models and textures
wew lad

>>382099310
>I like to make shitty food analogies that aren't even remotely accurate, not because I like food analogies but because I'm severely mentally impaired

>>382099229
Yes actually, I do. Do you? You don't program shaders in current year. It's all visual scripting, you read the manual and you do it. It's not programmers who do it, it's us 3D artists.

>>382099596
>I suck dicks because I love sucking dicks, not because I love dicks

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>>382099597
>It's all visual scripting
>you don't program shaders in current year
some people work outside of paint-by-numbers game engines made for artplebs.

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>>382099384
hmmmm i wonder why that is?
couldn't be that anyone who isn't leftwing gets blacklisted

>>382099487
>The 1300 Pixel Arrow

>>382099583
not the person who said that, it varies per game, but games have huge art requirements these days, for an average AAA game I would say it's about 60%

>>382099663
Go ahead, make your own engine. I'm sure it'll be better than Unreal.

>>382099597
did your dyed-hair media studies professor tell you that?

>>382099406
You mention about japs dev, I'm reminded about one of earliest jap vidya devs that said he doesn't play games and neither should you because it's a waste of time. I assume this kind of mindset is even more prevalent in japan with them being professionalism, monozukuri and shietz.
In the end vidya devs are just another job. Not some sacred shits only few should do. Hell, it's just vidya, mang.

>>382099597
Programmers program shaders and artists tweak the values, not every works in bubble-wrapped unity scripts

>>382093135
No one who isn't passionate about their medium has ever made anything of worth, that guy sounds like an absolutely huge pretentious faggot who likely failed at what he really wanted to make and had to settle for less.

>>382093135
It really depends on what his job is in thr dev team. The ideas, story and gameplay mechanics guys should be into vidya, otherwise they won't know how to make a proper one.
Mr. Codemonkey #23431 doesn't necessarily have to be into games.

>>382099705
In AAA that workload gets outsourced to Chinese factories. They're recyclable, disposable assets that can bought bought and sold on demand.

>>382093248
Fpbp

If you don't like video games it means you literally have no taste for them and therefore absolutely no idea what makes a game good or bad, fun or unfun.

Whoever this guy is I'm % confident his game with be absolute trash

>>382099705
there's a difference between "art" and "assets"
arts are just concepts made by artists to design the look&feel of the game
assets are those arts converted to machine language (textures, 3d models, etc)
the latter is the one that's "huge"

>>382099641
>I like to make shitty dick sucking analogies that aren't even remotely accurate, not because I like dick sucking analogies but because I like sucking dick

>>382099469
>Listing Carmageddon
>Not fucking Donkey Kong Country

>>382099597
>>382099663
>>382099583
>>382099487
>>382099410
>>382099325
>>382099229

You morons arguing about game artists (both sides) are mixing up different kinds of artists for different kinds of games.

>>382099384
even if that's true (which i honestly doubt), the majority of devs don't tweet about shit like ethnic diversity like this guy does

>>382099796
just because it's outsourced doesn't mean it magically doesn't count as work that needs doing does it? and only the smallest of assets, maybe some generic textures or props will be recycled between games. You don't just take a character model out of one game and stick it in another

Literally who?

>>382093135
Plenty of writers don't enjoy reading. However, that doesn't mean that reading makes writing worse, in fact, it only makes it better.

>>382099736
Anon, I literally work in a game studio making a shitty F2P online game in UE4. I'm a texture artist and I do make shaders as well. I have zero programming experience. We do have a technical artist who helps out if things get really complicated, but generally we make shaders without his help.

>>382099670
if that was the issue you'd still see shitloads of right-wing indie games rather than one or two every couple of years

conservatives generally just aren't as interested in making vidya as progressives

>>382099825
textures and 3d models are not in 'machine language', art is used to refer to any piece of art used in the game, not just concept art. Using 'asset' is a fairly new term, we've always called it art

>>382099746
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EFXMW_UEDco&list=PLZlv_N0_O1gY35ezlSQn1sWOGfh4C7ewO
Here you go son, step into the 21 century

>>382099919
The fact that it can be outsourced in the way it is shows that it is a detached module from the rest of the game. It's polish, effectively. Potential man-hour cost of it does not make it more important.

It's so unimportant you don't even really need to talk with the people who make the stuff, and you can just re-use assets anyways.

>>382099991
>shitty F2P online game in UE4
wow, who could have guessed.

Like I said, some of us code outside of paint-by-numbers game engines for artplebs and AAA studies who need a average-tier way of getting their shit on every platform.

The idea that you think that no one programs in shader languages, is fucking crazy.

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>>382094880
Holy shit, that fedora WWF cunt.
>i don't care if their base is Karate, they are doing wrestling
Holy shit

>>382094091
>I enjoy writing. I don't enjoy reading. I enjoy painting.

And it's absolutely all shit. Also you haven't explored the limits of the medium, you literally cannot have the same grasp of the medium as someone who does. Great for you, terrible for the consumer of your product.

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>>382093135
Of course they should, but "le I hate games, they're all trash and were a mistake, do you love me now, dad?" rejects of neo-/v/ will tell you otherwise.

>>382093587
>did the man who invented video games play video games

>>382100068
you can outsource anything in a game, art, programming, level design, sound. You don't have a clue what you're talking about. Art and programming are equally the two most important disciplines of game development. Re-using code is alot more common than reusing art

>>382100147
>no one programs in shader languages
Did I say that? Most people don't, that's for sure. Give me an example of a shader I can't make in an UE blueprint. I'm sure there are some, but I can't think of any.

>>382099548
great fucking argument you piece of shit

>>382093135
Carmack never liked videogames much

>>382099670
>>382099913
being conservative is the anti-thesis of creativity by definition

>>382093587
Yes, I was in the chess club

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>>382100260
>Europe is worthless at gamedev
>post a bunch of shit games
>expect me to sway my opinion

You have a population of over 500 million, some of the richest in the world, and can't manage to produce the best of what vidya has to offer. Utterly and overwhelmingly pathetic.

>>382100389
whatever you say, ignorant burger inhaler

>>382100206
You would never outsource level design, because that's part of game design, if you outsource game design, it's not really outsource.

You'd never outsource the core programmer team, because it's so heavily tied to game design, it also effectively makes it not really outsourcing is that is the core of the team.

Sound, sure, I'm not gonna defend sound, it's lower tier than 3D models, which is just above textures. Both of which are below people who make pipeline tools and people making particle emitters/shaders. You usually don't see tool guys being outsourced, either, because they're working with the programmers/engine guys.

Code reuse often results in engines with performance issues like Unity. There are lots of issues with it, it is a specific topic I can speak more on but it's a pretty broad topic.

>>382100352
carmack was also just a tech guy and didnt do any actual game design

>>382099743
>making films without actually watching films
This is how Chinese ripoff shits get made

>>382100247
>Give me an example of a shader I can't make in an UE blueprint.
Like I said, some of us work outside of paint-by-numbers game engines for plebs. Apparently in your world everyone is a mediocre pleb making shitty F2P with the McDonalds of game engines.

On a scale of 1 to 10 how much indie pixel shit?

>>382100193
Oh boy, what a fucking retard you are. You're talking about /v/irgins trying to fit in, yet it is you who's trying to fit in, hard.

First, hating games was old /v/. Neo-/v/, like you, are the utter morons who couldn't lurk for a single day and just wrote dumb shit, like you are dping now. Neo-/v/ are the ones that couldn't into the internet hate machine.
Second, you are indeed clinically retarded (bet you enjoy your guv bucks) for ever taking the whole "hating vidya" seriously.

Just kill yourself, you tremendous faggot.
Or redeem yourself by posting more of that semen demon.

>>382093135
biiig narcissism redflag

>I like making videogames for the art, but I do not have a frame of reference to other pieces of art and artists because my craft does not require improvement or any sort of change at all because I'm already doing it perfectly

Can I just blame post modernism for this?

>>382100464
>lower tier than 3D models, which is just above textures
Nah, 3D models are easier than outsource than textures. Textures need to conform to one art direction and use one library of decals and masks. Models can be whatever as long as they follow the shape on the concept art. Models are the easiest thing to outsource.

>>382093135
Holy shit what kind of horrible faggot uses underscores for emphasis?

>>382100538
I wish this board still hated video games. I like being in the majority.

>>382100362
the last night was literally about how communism is bad, and was shunned because its ideas were too radical for the game industry
the modern left loves conformity

>>382100587
okay, that might be true.

>>382100514
It's called vidya "industry" for a reason.

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>>382093135
I love making kolaches but after years of making them I just got tired of eating them, but I still make em. Why? Because people love my kolaches.

>>382100486
What the fuck do you think being a "game developer" entails?

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>>382093135
No I agree with this guy. When someone that doesn't like videogames start making a videogame he actually has the chance to make something unique or improve upon the things he didn't like so that he could make a truly new and innovative experience.

Tell me would you rather have something unique or just your other cliche 2d 8bit pixelart NES inspired bullshit that "genuine game fan indies" make?

Some of the best innovative games and genres in the industry were made by people that didn't know or like videogames before.

>Peter molyneux's Populous
>Sid Meier's Civilization
>Bioware doctor's Baldur's Gate
>Will Wright's Simulation games such as sim city

All these people either didn't know about videogames when they made their first project or didn't like them and tried to make one that they personally would like.

Hell if you started gaming in 2017 would YOU like gaming? Probably most of us would shit on the industry and never became involved with it.

>>382100530
You haven't given me an example though. If I can make the same thing you make and I do it faster, my tools are better.

It's not pixel shit, it's a realistic military shooter. Obviously we won't really be hitting AAA visuals, but that's what we're aiming for, on a way smaller budget.

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>>382100538
How old are you, nigger? I see far more unironic "you play too many games" posts now, thanks to leddit crossposters. Old /v/ would shitpost about games all day, but at least play them with you anyway. Now you have these kids that not only talk badly of them, but don't play them either. I recall being in a thread and everyone was disappointed/disgusted at a guy saying he spent 500 hours playing Dark Souls, like that was something special.

>>382100464
>You would never outsource level design
I would agree it's a bad idea to do so, but it happens all the time

>You'd never outsource the core programmer team
You'd never outsource the core art team either

placing 3D models 'above' textures is just ridiculous. they're both needed to display graphics on the screen. You can make a game with code and no art, but most games these days have graphics. The biggest team on most games is the art team. Art is slightly easier to outsource than code, it doesn't make it any less important to the development of a game.

>Code reuse often results in engines with performance issues like Unity
Do you know what a library is? And every single programmer has a codebase he reuses from project to project. Don't speak if you don't have a clue what you're talking about.

>>382100628
saying communism is bad doesn't mean you're conservative

>>382100664
i mean literally that carmack has autism and liked to build engines and nothing more. game developers dabble in everything.

>>382094880
>no one wanted or asked for
>millions sold
Its a psy-op

>>382100774
it does today :^)
also if you wanna get specific, the tweets people got mad at said his game would be about modern feminism and PC culture gone too far

>>382093135
Obviously yes. Why are they making video games if they don't like video games. They won't like the product of their labor because of what it is? That's retarded. This guy is retarded.

>>382100695
I'm literally programming a game with libSDL2, call it my own "engine" if you want. It's bespoke. Don't speak to me about libraries. I'm an actual fucking game programmer. There's a huge difference between re-using a bespoke game engine, or using an off-the-shelf generic game engine and a industry standard C++ library like boost or libSDL2.

I have zero plans to involve any art people or sound guys or any of that shit until I'm basically done. There are plenty of free game assets with open licenses to work with as placeholders.

Art is disposable.

>>382093703
>>382094010
You're here after the election, am I right?

>>382100839
Being anything less than an insane social justice warrior does not make you conservative no matter what they tell you

>>382100898
Why though? Why are you doing that? What's so unique about your game that you can't just do it in an existing engine way faster?

>>382093459
why are you even complaining about this?
how can writing not be political? all art is political, every writer has its own views. Do you want some cookie cutter barney bullshit, you stupid faggot? That's political too, concerning the education of children

>>382100678
>When someone that doesn't like videogames start making a videogame he actually has the chance to make something unique or improve upon the things he didn't like

He's not into video games. That would imply he spends less time with them, which means he has fewer things to change than someone who spends time enjoying them.

#1. Who the fuck is this guy?
#2. When are indie developers gonna start hiring PR guys? Even if you paid them a penny per tweet to post or not post these guys would make bank

>>382093135
From Gamers, for Gamers!

this meant something, fucking normy cunts investing the world destroying everything with ther idiocy and norminess. Im in for the money not because i am passionate about what id o.

KILL EM KILLEM WITH FIRE!

>>382100362
lol

this is LITERALLY just like the Garth Merenghi quote where he brags about how he's written more books than he's read

>>382100952
I've worked with Unity before. It has little to offer me, for the type of game I want to make. It's just a cost and a performance hit.

If you want to make a generic platformer or FPS, go with Unity or UE4.

I'm working on sim-management tycoon game and those engines just end up being an encumbrance to me, especially since my game is primarily 2D anyways. What do I need those engines for? So I don't have to write GUI code? Not worth it. libSDL2 lets me play my audio and render my textures just fine, while being fully crossplatform (mobile too) and 3D accelerated.

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>>382100678
>Will Wright's Simulation games such as sim city
First game was Raid on Bungeling Bay, not Sim City.

>Bioware doctor's Baldur's Gate
First game was Shattered Steel, not Baldur's Gate.

>Sid Meier's Civilization
Made quite a plethora of games before Civilization. Formula 1 Racing, Hellcat Ace, Chopper Rescue, Spitfire Ace, Floyd of the Jungle, NATO Commander, Wingman, Solo Flight, Kennedy Approach, F-15 Strike Eagle, Silent Service, Crusade in Europe, Decision in the Desert, Conflict in Vietnam, Gunship, SM's Pirates, Red Storm Rising, F19 Stealth Fighter, F15 Strike Eagle 2, Sword of the Samurai, Covert Action, SM's Railroad Tycoon.

>Peter molyneux's Populous
He made The Entrepreneur, Druid 2, and Fusion before Populous.

On all these accounts you are wrong. These people have completed one or more (especially more, in the case of Meier) games before making what you consider to be their magnum opus.

>>382100983
A great writer should be able to write something from another perspective that doesn't align with their own world view

>>382100774
yes it does

27 genders is a centrist position, goy

>>382100660
those are some very ordinary looking buns

I wonder if devs who never complete their games give up because they are jaded and don't love video games anymore, or because they love video games too much and don't want to spread their garbage to the world.

>>382101103
I know that it weren't their first games. But that wasn't the point I was trying to make.

My point was that all of these people went into the industry while not enjoying games or not knowing anything about games at all. Which gave them unique insight that eventually led to them pioneering new genres.

No. No artist should be like this.

>I love making film but I don't watch movies
>I love making music but I don't listen to music
>I love painting but I never look at paintings
Name 1 artist who is like this and isn't total shit.

>>382100898
>I'm literally programming a game with libSDL2, call it my own "engine" if you want. I'm an actual fucking game programmer.
you're an amateur applying your own biases to the whole world. You can take an established game franchise, make a new game on the same engine without even touching the code, with brand new art and call it a new game and sell it. It's something that's often happens in the game industry. Make a game with the same graphics another game has and people are going to call it a rip off. To believe anything else is delusional. And if you'd actually made a few games you'd be reusing your own code from one game to the next. No game codebase is started 100% brand new.

>>382101217
Point is pointless. All of those developers cut their teeth when genres didn't exist. That's why they "invented" genres.

It's harder to innovate when the field is already littered with the past innovations from the 1980s, 1990s, and 2000s. Simple fact is, it's not "non-gamers coming in and innovating," it's "how the fuck do you innovate in a mature field, gamer or non-gamer alike?"

>>382101091
>What do I need those engines for? So I don't have to write GUI code? Not worth it.
What do you mean not worth it. It's literally free. It's worth nothing, just use it, it's there already. You just want to practice, I get it. Don't try to justify it though, it's just you playing around.

>>382100362
100% true.

To be creative you cant have bound holding you back.

When the mind knows no limits so dose your soul you can create worlds of unknown buitey or horror.

If your shekelt back your not artist but a convener belt worker or miner just stupidly doing but not creating.

No necessarily. Carmack, Miyamoto, Will Wright, Bobby Kotick. They all didn't like video games and they ended up where they did making great ones.

>>382093135
It's certainly help a lot to make sure their game isn't shit.

>>382101120
The point is, every action is political. Whether you consciously decide it or not, some faggot somewhere can put you in a box, and by doing anything or nothing, you can be described as taking a political action.

Merely by not going on a jihad right now, you are making the political decision that radical islam is not for you. By waking up and brushing your teeth, you are making the political decision that you're fine with toothpaste companies. It doesn't matter, everything you do says something about your worldview, and that includes literally any art you could conceivably create. Whenever you do anything, somebody, somewhere, could take issue with the thing you are doing. So you are politically opposed to their idea.

So maybe that's what this TLOU writer meant. It's technically impossible to be apolitical. The shit he creates makes a statement whether he intends it or not.

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>>382101217
>My point was that all of these people went into the industry while not enjoying games or not knowing anything about games at all.

Who the fuck told you Will Wright didn't know or like video games? And Sid Meier? In fact, can you give source on any of those claims?

>>382101379
Carmack never made a game.

>>382101271
Some of us want to make new and interesting games, others want to make recycled F2P trash.

>>382101317
Unity/UE4/whatever is not free, they have licensing fees. I have worked with them before and like I said it's not worth it to me for the game I'm currently working on because those are all 3D oriented engines. Last time I worked in Unity I spent almost all my time just _coding_ and then realizing I wasn't taking "advantage" of all the pleb-tier paint-by-numbers shit that it's really designed for.

Maybe GameMaker but again, not really worth it because it requires me to adopt a full pipeline just to take advantage of relatively little code.

When you adopt an engine you're deciding to make a "that engine game", when you use a library it's just a module.

>>382093135
witcher devs loved video game and look were they are, i think you have to love a art form to be apart of it

>>382101359
Video games have never been creative then, because hardware limitations (especially on consoles and handhelds) are a very real limitation. And always have been

>>382101552
He made a game.

>>382101572
>Some of us want to make new and interesting games
that's great, just don't act like art isn't important. Maybe it's not as important for your simulation game, saying that artists are disposable and art doesn't matter is just ignorant

>>382101217
SimCity was made because Will Wright was playing games and realized he was having more fun with the level editor than the actual game. So that's exactly the opposite of the point you're trying to make.

>>382101572
>they have licensing fees
Not really, UE4 is free until you sell $3000 worth of games and then it's 5%. Let's face it, you won't sell $3000 worth of games

>>382101629
limitations don't make something not creative

If you don't like video games, how can you tell if the video game you're making is actually good and fun?

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>>382101698

>>382101359
>To be creative you cant have bound holding you back.

>>382101657
Yeah but he already developed games before SimCity. The point was that he started out as a developer before he knew about videogames and have always looked at videogames from a designer perspective instead of a gamer.

That was the entire point of the OP. Someone that only looks at the gaming industry from a designer perspective and not as a consumer of games. Turns out that most "genius" game designers that pioneered genres were actually people like OP.

>>382101646
>art isn't important.
but it isn't, it's disposable.

Frankly the emphasis of high-fidelity, photo-realistic graphics is damaging to the quality of games as we've seen in the AAA industry. no risk taking, long dev times, huge global development teams (all that art being outsourced). Real graphics innovation comes from rendering techniques and new graphics APIs, not ever-increasing texture sizes.

>>382100018
>>382100362
So I guess all eastern european or japanese games aren't creative and shit?

>>382101757
>If you don't like video games, how can you tell if the video game you're making is actually good and fun?

That's an easy problem to fix, just be so egotistical that it doesn't matter to you.

>>382101693
But anon, I'm not making a generic FPS. Why would I want to use UE4?

I'm also just personally in favor of making good games, not bloated trashware that wants to vomit configs in 4 different places on my system because I launched a game once.

>>382100856
No, you are retarded. Do you think that everyone that flips burgers for a living likes eating burgers? Or that everyone that manufactures iPhones like using them? (I'll have you know that there are plenty that prefer Androids or even flip phones over iOS)

Not everything has to be a labor of love. Whether or not you like what you do doesn't make or break the end-product, but it helps you get by if you do.

>>382101890
In what way are Japenese or Slav games "conservative"?

>>382101813
>but it isn't
the entire world disagrees with you
people like art
people pay for art
people pay for video games that play like shit because they have good art

>>382101757
You can't even if you like them, it takes a lot of ego to go through with a project, shit blinds your judgement. That's where feedback comes in. Shame it's so hard to find educated feedback nowadays.

>>382101983
>people pay for video games that play like shit because they have good art
t. artist telling a game programmer about what's important

>>382101806
> The point was that he started out as a developer before he knew about videogames and have always looked at videogames from a designer perspective instead of a game

And what I'm saying is that he was unknown, and the literal second he started looking at the games from the perspective of the player, he made video game history.

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No. Fanboys can't create, that's why indie games suck so much and are nothing but plagiarizing old games.
Someone who thinks he can create games just because he like games is like some anime fanfic writer who thinks he's a real writer.

http://en.academic.ru/dic.nsf/enwiki/610151
>"It's not because you like games that you can make games. Frankly speaking, none of us four here like games." When "Kenji Eno" said: "I do like games", Okamoto immediately responded: "That's why you're the only second-class developer [of the four] ". (At a roundtable discussion in Tokyo Game Show.)

That's how real developers think.

>>382102083
I'm actually a programmer

The game designers must.

Coders and artist oprionally.

That being said if I owned a company I dont think Id hire someone who doesnt like them.

>>382093135
Yes. Otherwise you get a douchebag like that who just wants to make money while hating his fans.

>>382102170
>visual scripting makes me a programmer

>>382101953
The games don't have to be political you mong. Most games by "progressives" don't have a political message as well except that they put some nigger character in the game. Slavshits and japs are just very conservative/right-wing in general.

>>382101932
A burger is a recipe perfected from centuries of eating it and testing it with different spices to find the best result. If people didn't like burgers at one point in history, they wouldn't be flipping them.

And yes, Steve Jobs obviously had a lot of love for his creation. Do you think he used a fucking blackberry?

>>382102237
no, a real one who's actually made game engines, not someone making their first 2D game in SDL butthurt about the fact they can't find an artist

>>382093135
no, they wouldn't be able to finish it if they do.

>>382102138
Continuing

BUT what you're doing is a product. And you should make it the best, not for you, but for the players. You're not creating games for you.

So the OP pic is also wrong, as this is just another idiot who thinks he is a great artist, just like every indie developer with their shitty self-questioning bad poetry and amnesiac trans-something characters.

He's a fanboy of himself.

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>>382102237
>>382102170

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>>382101953

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>>382093459
HE CAN'T KEEP GETTING AWAY WITH IT

>>382102264
>If people didn't like burgers at one point in history, they wouldn't be flipping them.
Do you think every burger flipper enjoys eating them? They can know how to make them taste like a heaven-sent gift, but that doesn't mean that they like eating them themselves. Moreover, the reason they keep flipping them is because they keep selling, which is the same reason a game developer that does it professionally will continue making games.

>And yes, Steve Jobs obviously had a lot of love for his creation. Do you think he used a fucking blackberry?
Do you think Steve Jobs personally manufactured every iPhone himself?

>>382102306
>I made a game engine
>but those textures that get fed into it are way more work
>fuck actually doing anything with those textures
no programmer would ever say this, it's absurd.

>>382093706
>>382093135
Oh, it's one of those Zoe Quinn types that just shits out a 'game' one weekend a year, then spends the rest of his time kissing ass and sucking up to the indie clique shile begging for Patreon donations and spending all day on Twitter telling everybody how quirky he is.

>>382102138
What's so fucking stupid about this post is that almost every other developer in the world loves video games except a handful, yet he's treating a single anecdote like it speaks for the industry.

>debate about video games on American imageboard
>devolves into arguing about burgers
you can't make this shit up

Political is such a bullshit word.

I hate it to death.

>>382102071
L O N G D O N G
O
N
G
D
O
N
G

>>382101932
>Not everything has to be a labor of love.
You're correct, but creative professions are generally the exception. No one has a passion for flipping burgers because there's no artistry -- and before you mention something like Subway's "sandwich artist," please.

Passion isn't a requirement, but it has a healthy side effect of being well-read (in whatever profession), which leads to the professional avoiding the mistakes that novices make. Like putting an underwater timed escort mission with an NPC that moves at 80% of your base movespeed "because it would be cool."

Did chess, and monopoly require people who enjoyed playing board games?

>>382093459
But he's right, retard.

>>382094149
>All these ebin directors/writers don't understand that as a medium
So Neil Druckmann?

>>382093135
tanslator note : "_making video games_" means socializing on twitter and shitting on fat evil nerds on facebook

>>382102542
>5am in the USA
>implying this isn't a bunch of butthurt Euros and Australians with inferiority complexes whose only insult in the inventory is "lol stupid burger" and having their mind being infected and dominated by paranoia

>>382102606
>No one has a passion for flipping burgers because there's no artistry
Move to the south and say that again. Fuck Subway's """"""""food"""""""" in general, though. I didn't even know they had such a stupid position because I never eat their backwash swill.

>>382093135
Actually, I kind of get this. As a kid I always had more fun honking of how I'd make a sequal or related game than actually playing the game itself(which I did enjoy also)

>>382102686
BBQ is an art
burgers are not

>>382093135
What the fuck.

>>382102502
>but those textures that get fed into it are way more work
Did I say that? I said art and and programming are of equal importance in game development. Weather your game has more programming or more artwork depends on the game, but to say one is more work than the other is absurd generalization. You don't need to feel butthurt about artists just because you're a programmer.

This thread tells a lot about western video game development. No wonder it got to this state.

>>382102661
Twitter, get it right.

>>382102487
>Do you think every burger flipper enjoys eating them

Stupid bitch, you didn't get the point. That's literally the question I responded to, you illiterate fucking moron. The entire point is that people would not be flipping burgers in the first place if people didn't make burgers for themselves at home, picking the ingredients for themselves because they chose what they enjoyed from a first person perspective.

>Do you think Steve Jobs personally manufactured every iPhone himself?

What the fuck are you even saying

>>382102747
>I said art and and programming are of equal importance in game development.
but they're not

graphics are literally optional, just like audio, touchpad support and dongle waggle.

You don't have to understand music theory to make music but it sure fucking helps.

>>382102803
>Western game development is reduced to one guy who calls himself a "dev" yet hasn't shipped anything larger than a microgame
Stop being retarded friend. That would be like me saying that Japan's game industry is only doujin, and that they're all unpolished garbage made by unskilled college students.

>>382102138
there's a difference between a fanboy and someone who enjoys playing video games.

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The best games to this day were created by young and middle-aged japanese man in the late 80's and 90's before the video game market was big as it is now.
They were mostly programmers and artists who UNDERSTOOD games. They knew how games should work. But they weren't actual video game fans. They don't even had games to play, as they invented most genres and good games.

Nowadays you got a bunch of retards who grew up playing video games and when they decide to create one, they can't think of nothing BUT videogames. They have zero culture beside what they play. And want to just copy what they play as they aren't creative. And now it's easy with engines like Unity.

You can't create games when the only thing you know about is games. You need some culture. That's why no shithole country like Brazil created a single decent game to this day, as there's no black game designer.

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>>382102448
>unironically posting gamergate shit
cringe

>>382101932
Let's try to establish who this faggot in the OP is first then. Is he just some underpaid lacky or is he an independent developer working on a passion project? In any case, nobody works in the video game industry if they don't give a shit about video games. You'd be better off in terms of pay, hours, and job security literally anywhere else with a similar skillset.

Why are you using a gay food analogy for mass produced burgers when we're talking about a creative artistic endeavor? Are you being intentionally obtuse or are you just stupid?
>No, you are retarded.
You might want to reevaluate that, retard.

>>382102880
Doujin fighting games are better than western juggernauts like Mortal Kombat.

>>382102917
He was providing an example as requested by the person he was replying to. Stop being so triggered or go back to NeoGAF.

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>>382102917
well he was asking for it dumbo

>cringe
back to deddit

>>382102807
>The entire point is that people would not be flipping burgers in the first place if people didn't make burgers for themselves at home, picking the ingredients for themselves because they chose what they enjoyed from a first person perspective.
You don't need to do any of that shit to get a job at a local burger joint flipping burgers. You are an imbecile if you think that you need to like burgers to make money selling them.

>Do you think Steve Jobs personally manufactured every iPhone himself?
What the fuck are you even saying
I was talking about the people that actually manufacture them, not the individual who came up with the concept (moreover, a thieving scumbag that's only famous because he stole credit for Steve WWWozniak's work). If you think that everyone that's toiled away in factories making shitty overpriced iPhones likes using them, you're sorely mistaken.

>>382102817
>graphics are literally optional, just like audio
go play any game with your screen turned off then
Maybe you're making a Dwarf Fortess style game but 99% of games have graphics and honestly I don't expect your game to be as in-depth as DF

>>382102880
It would be if that reasoning was rooted in the overwhelming majority of independent development and said reasoning echoed from the high profile industry in the first place.

>>382102828
Oh yes, you need. Or else you'll just shit things like hip hop, rap and call it a day.

>>382100660
Yes, but you know how to make a good kolache because you've eaten them in the past. You didn't say "Fuck, I really hate kolaches. I won't even eat them. Better open up a kolache stand."

>>382102542
You're actually angry that you're being made to picture burgers in your head. What a fucking bitch.

>>382102880
He's right though.

>>382102913
...Are you implying brazilian blacks have culture?

>>382103045
I play the fuck out of dwarf fortress and my game is heavily an economic simulation with hundreds of individual class objects contained with dozens of class objects all with their individual attributes to help simulate it.

Graphics are merely an abstraction and a method of displaying this internal game simulation.

Like I said, some of us aren't making generic FPS games or platformers.

>>382103123
I'm just said Brazilians DON'T have culture and never created a good game because they don't have culture for it.