Sonic

Mania isn't out, how are we supposed to know?

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>>381952229
>Sonic 4
Why even list that trash as an option?

>>381952229
Whitehead wins by virtue of understanding basic classic physics.

Whithead's work on the Sonic CD port and mobile ports of Sonic 1 and 2 have me trust him when it comes to classic sonic. He actually treats the series with respect, and it feels like the only limitation he has is when Sega gets pissy about him wanting to do new stuff (Look at the Sonic 2 port and the cut Egg Gauntlet Zone for boss refights.)

Dimps was pretty garbage, and treated it like another product (Episode II of Sonic 4 was better, but jesus that was a clusterfuck).

Sonic Team is pretty much in-name only and anyone who was responsible for the decent sonics either worked for the american STI branch in the 90s or long since left the company after the Dreamcast days.

>Sonic 4
Triggered

Mania isn't even out and it already beats 3Dshit

>>381952229
Watching the trailers to mania have been more enjoyable than the two other pieces of shit you listed.

>>381952653
>>381953905
Dimps did the advance trilogy and rush through colors DS

any of them would be better choices than 4.

>>381952229
ST due to Unleashed.
Also dimps made advance games.

>>381953904
>Dimps was pretty garbage, and treated it like another product
But on the other hand, there's Sonic Advance.
On the other other hand though, the Advance and Rush games were co-developed with Sonic Team.

>>381954438
I think he means "Who did new games with 'classic style' gameplay better?". Advance 2 through Colors DS are not similar to classic gameplay.
And Sonic Team worked with Dimps on the Advance and Rush games anyway.

Advanced and Rush series > Nostalgia garbage.

>>381954814
>I think he means "Who did new games with 'classic style' gameplay better?"
Yes exactly.

I want to some day find out the budgets behind both Sonic 4 and Sonic Mania

>>381954814
>Advance 2 through Colors DS are not similar to classic gameplay
2d speed-focused sidescrolling platformer.
physics engine aside, all of them are the same in terms of premise.

and though sonic team did work with demps on the advance and rush games, demps did not work with sonic team on generations.
hence, they are labeled differently.

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>>381954841
Yeah dimps garbage with shit level design is MUCH better.

Sonic Team

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>>381952229
How's this even a question? Pic related of course.

>>381952229
Sonic Advance is a better Sonic 4 than Sonic 4 is. And Dimps made it.

>>381952229
Chris-Chan.

What's so bad about Sonic 4?

>>381956935
A better question would be "What's good about Sonic 4?" The answer: nothing, literally nothing.

>>381955119
>all of them are the same in terms of premise
Only on the most basic level of "2d platformer with some speed".

Advance is basically another classic game. That is: it's a basic platformer, but with good physics and level design that takes advantage of the good physics. This means that, sometimes, you go fast.

Advance 2 is all about speed.
The classics typically alternate between speed/spectacle sections with no real obstacles, and slow platforming challenge sections. Advance 2 is balls out high speed with some obstacles 100% of the time, and almost all new or altered mechanics are all about speed:
>mach speed mode
>acceleration increasing with amount of rings
>item monitors and vertical springs and the like activating just by touching them rather than needing to stop and jump on them
>levels starting like a foot race with countdown and initial burst of speed
>trick system giving you the air control after hitting a spring or what have you to go in any direction at speed and maintain mach speed mode
>end of level bonus dependent on speed you cross the finish line with and how quickly you can come to a stop

Sonic Rush is similar to Advance 2, except fuck acceleration, just press this here button for instant max speed.

If you've played all these games and can't feel the obvious differences in the ways they intend for you to play them with their mechanics and level design, I really don't know what to say.

>>381952229
Mania will be the best

>>381957867
that's the thing
i've never in my life played any of the rush engine games

>>381958004
Yet you pretend like you know what you're talking about.

Sonic Mania looks pretty mediocre but since Sonic fans are thirsty for games and it'll be better than whatever SEGA-Sammy is shitting out, they'll pretend it's as good as the original classics.

>>381958274
>implying i do

>>381958004
Even just playing Sonic Advance and Sonic Advance 2, you should be seeing a world of difference.

>>381952229
Mania

>>381955119
>2d speed-focused sidescrolling platformer.
No, that's what the 2D games were starting with Advance 2.

Sonic 1, CD, 2, 3K, Advance 1, and Mania are 2D physics-and-slopes-focused sidescrolling platformers, where speed was a natural byproduct of understanding of the physics and skillfully navigating the sloping levels.

Generally, speed is the reward. In CD, speed is an asset you need to learn how to farm in order to reach new locations and travel through time. Starting with Advance 2, speed just became the gimmicky window dressing.

>>381958505
>implying you didn't
>>381955119

It's cool that Sega cares about fans, sometimes. Most publishers don't do that.

>>381958450
>Sonic Mania looks pretty mediocre
t. contrarian

>>381958930
t. lacking an argument

>>381958901
As someone ITT that had a Master System/Mega Drive, please enlighten me in what way they are caring about their fans.

>>381959207
>t. lacking an argument
There's nothing to argue since you never presented one yourself. You only stated your vague opinion and went to some fallacies for a laugh.

>>381959510
nice strawman

>>381959510
Nothing but excuses.

>>381959705
>>381959750
Wrong.

>>381957817
I had a lot of fun doing speedruns of it back when it was released. It's a game that gets better on multiple playthroughs.

>>381952229
Dimps unironically.

>>381959820
>t. invoking rule #11: all your carefully picked arguments can easily be ignored

>>381959820
No U

>>381959820
Sore loser

>>381958804
>Starting with Advance 2, speed just became the gimmicky window dressing.
I don't think I would go that far. Advance 2 still forces you to properly build up and maintain your speed skillfully, it's just also a faster game overall and doesn't have much in the way of real platforming challenges.
Introduction of the boost is when any need to consider physics or bother with accelerating up to top speed go out the window.

>>381959207
>please enlighten me in what way they are caring about their fans.
By green-lighting Mania.

>>381958450
>Sonic Mania looks pretty mediocre
How so? Explain.

>>381960456
Oh, another Sonic game, one not even made in house! Wow, SEGA-Sammy really cares about their fans!

>>381952229
dimps -sonic advance

>>381959929
>It's a game that gets better on multiple playthroughs.
More like worse. I tries playing it a few weeks ago for shits n' giggles and couldn't stomach those shit physics.

Dimps is a pretty mediocre studio. Even Rush was full of awful design.

>>381952653
Sonic 4 is better than the 2D portions of boost games.

>>381960585
>one not even made in house!
Who cares? Looks far better than made anything in-house in ages.

>Wow, SEGA-Sammy really cares about their fans!
Yes, giving the fans exactly what they have been asking for for ages does seem to indicate that they care about their fans somewhat.

>>381960585
>durr just another game
t. uninformed shitposter

>>381959820
How does it feel to get so thoroughly trounced in an argument that you have to switch the topic after just one pathetic reply?

>>381957867
>acceleration increasing with amount of rings
Is that true? wtf

>>381960832
>Who cares?
Yeah, SEGA-Sammy doing nothing really proves they care!

>Yes, giving the fans (by fans I mean a subset of Sonic fans, which is not all SEGA fans)
Yes! #BASEDSEGA-SAMMY!

>>381960862
There was no argument, that point was never rebutted.

>>381960874
Yes.

>>381960651
This. DIMPS actually had platformer experience and knew that you design your level around death pits, and not the other way around.

It's the mario fundamentals that classic sonic lacked entirely.

>>381960952
>T-there was no argument!
From you, yes.

>>381961021
Point out where the argument began. You can't, you don't know what an argument is.

>>381952653
episode 2 is pretty good

Dimps, but you posted the wrong game.

Sonic 4 is not that bad

and Generations is hardly a classic style sonic game

also people shit on Dimps too much even though they helped Sega on a lot of the decent Sonic games for the last like 15 years including Unleashed and pretty much every handheld Sonic game in that time

>>381961148
Not really.

>>381960832
>Yes, giving the fans exactly what they have been asking for for ages does seem to indicate that they care about their fans somewhat.
Honestly I think we just lucked out & Sega doesn't really care all that much.

>>381952229
>2Dshit

>>381961725
If they didn't care then instead of Mania we'd be getting 4 Episode III.

>>381961513
All Dimps is good for is grunt work. None of their games are standout or notable.

>>381960932
>SEGA-Sammy doing nothing really proves they care!
Not being the developers doesn't mean they're doing nothing. They funded and greenlit the game. It would not exist without them.

>>381961725
Very possible, which is why I said "somewhat".
We may only have a new classic game because Generations had classic Sonic and people enjoyed Generations.
Probably the same reason we still have wisps - just because Colors was relatively well received.

>>381962018
They made Street Fighter IV, V, and Dragon Ball Xenoverse.

Dimps did it best. I've been playing sonic since the classic original that started it all, sonic adventure. It's a little weird they skipped from 2 on GameCube to 4, I guess shadow the hedgehog or heroes was3 but didn't have a number on it to get new fans who don't know about sonic maybe?

The action is so fast and the graphics are so smooth, 4 is great, I hope they return to it and make episode 3. Haha fuck half life sonic 4 ep 3 is my half life 3

>>381962128
Is your goal to prove his point? What the fuck are you doing?

>>381952229
Sonic 4 was awful.
Sonic Generations was a fun game, but the Classic Sonic bits were a weakpoint.
Sonic Mania looks fantastic.

>>381962194
>I was only _________ to be ________

>>381962018

Dimps has never really made a 10/10 amazing game BUT at the same time they have also never really made a bad game

most of their games are solid 7s and 8s
they're a respectable developer
One of my favorite games they made was Dragonball Advanced Adventure on the GBA a very nice beat em up/platformer

>>381962128
Just because they work with big name IP doesn't mean their games are standout or notable.

>>381962194
>I've been playing sonic since the classic original that started it all
Same here and you're full of shit. 3 & Knuckles is still the pinnacle of the series and 4 is a complete slap in the face to any long time fan.

>>381952229
The one on the left doesn't exist, you should delete this right now

>>381962440
>at the same time they have also never really made a bad game
Sonic 4 is mediocre at best. The physics are fucked, it's slow, and there are boost pads everywhere.

>>381962457
>>381962201

But Street Fighter IV single-handedly revived the fighting game genre.

>>381962440
>time they have also never really made a bad game
Sonic 4 and Unwiished say hi.

>>381962526
3 and knuckles? I liked sonic heroes too, especially playing as sonic tails and knuckles, but I think either 2, 4 or the original sonic game, sonic adventure is my favorite

>>381962440
>BUT at the same time they have also never really made a bad game
Tales of the Tempest. Literally a blight on the tales series.

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>>381962540
>>381962623

alright alright by anybody but autistic Sonic fans standards they have never made a bad game

>>381962540
>it's slow
I'm sorry, but what?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VlXXoMRe8eI

>>381961640
I enjoyed it for the most part

>>381962526
Is this some kind of meta trolling? Taking the so-obvious-it-literally-hurts bait intentionally for reactions?
I mean, it's working. I'm reacting.

>>381962864
>alright alright by anybody but people with ANY standards they have never made a bad game

>>381952229
Sonic 4 sucked, Generations is better in modern mode and mania isn't out yet but looks great.
By default Generations wins but Mania will probably be better when it's released.

>>381962924
>That slow movement
>That shit animation
>Those awkward physics
lol

>>381962948
And I hated it.

>>381963107
The funniest part is when it goes in the tubes with the boost pads his speed kind of locks to being slower than how he was previously before entering the thing.

>>381963107
Come on! It looks plenty of fun. It's as if Metroid and Mega Man had a crack-addicted baby.

>>381963052

but Sonic 4 is not a bad game by normal platformer standards
its just the autistic Sonic fans who won't accept any different physics from the ones that were in the first 3 games

>>381963267
>It looks plenty of fun
Keep deluding yourself.

>>381962864
>if you don't have standards then the games are fine
neat

>>381963330
THIS!!! Thank you!

>>381963353
Are you saying that the fun I had with Sonic 4 was imaginary?

>>381963330
>but Sonic 4 is not a bad game by normal platformer standards
Oh but it is. How about you play more platformers before pretending that you know what you're talking about?

>>381963330
This desu

>>381963330
>Crappy animation
>Awkward physics by any standards
>Stages designed in an awkward way, requires props to move around anywhere in any act.
>Uninspired boss battles
>Controls are a bit finicky.
It's just not a very good platformer by any standards.

>>381963464
We're saying that you are a philistine who doesn't know better.
Like a child clamoring for the latest CoD, or a manchild playing Minecraft for 10 hours a day.

>>381952229
I will say that the Havoc engine is rather nice.

>>381963330
In my opinion it's just a very average platformer even if you compare it to the originals, like I could see people getting enjoyment from it but anyone who's saying it's amazing (or complete shit) are over exaggerating it. The only offensive thing about Sonic 4 is that it bares the same name with the classics.

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>>381952229
>Comparing based Taxman to all that trash
Is this really a question?

>>381962924
I can't get over how fucking bad the music sounds.

>>381963330
It's a 4/10 game.

>>381963330
The issue with the physics isn't that they are different, but that they have bullshit quirks you have to constantly consciously fight against to play properly, like instantly losing all horizontal speed in mid air if you stop holding a direction, which never stops feeling horribly wrong no matter how long you play.
Obviously comparisons with the original's physics come up, but it's because the originals had rock solid physics that almost always felt perfectly right and that you never had to fight against.
And I mean hell, even the original Super Mario Bros. has better jump physics than Sonic 4 Episode I.

Also there is practically no original content aside from the music (which is poor) in the entirety of the game. Almost every single zone, badnik, boss, and platforming gimmick comes from another Sonic game, and that other Sonic game usually did it better.
And it's very, VERY short. There's very little content on offer on top of all of it being rehashed and mediocre.

The only way I can see it not being a bad game by normal platformer standards is if the standard is like, the average of all platformers, rather than the average of the platformers people actually play and care about and talk about.

>>381963807
I'd rather be a philistine than a haughty fanatic with unappeaseable standards. I get to enjoy more games that way.

>>381964742
>unappeaseable standards
Except Mania is about to appease him, and everyone else with some taste, in just a couple months.

>I get to enjoy more games that way.
Good for you.

>>381956935
Truth be told Sonic 4 is a relatively decent platformer. But it's a poor imitation of the Genesis games, and episode 1 was about as lazy of a rehash as you could get.

who else glad they got their preorder in before they ran out of special editions?

>>381964742
>with unappeaseable standards
Except every self respecting Sonic fan is extremely pleased with Mania, since you know, it's a competent game unlike 4.

>>381964664
>instantly losing all horizontal speed in mid air if you stop holding a direction
Sonic 4 isn't the only platformer to do this. Pretty much every Mega Man game does this. If I remember correctly the Rayman and Klonoa games do this too.

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>>381965019
Me, also already have a digital copy on Steam, hopefully the rest of you did your part too.

>>381952229
Sonic Team doesn't know what the hell to do with Sonic and is ironically only good when they make non-Sonic games.
Dimps tends to have more ambition, but they also have a lot of shitty ideas at the same time, causing each of their games to have at least one stupid thing holding them back from being considered as acceptable as the classic games (often chaos emerald related).
We've yet to see Mania yet, but at least it looks solid so far.

>>381965271
None of those games are anything like Sonic, you chuckle fuck.

Sonic 4 would have been better received if it were called something else, treated as a spinoff and not a sequel, and had unique level themes rather than ripping off the previous games. It plays fundamentally different from the classic games, with rolling being near worthless and having to rely on homing attack strings to keep momentum going. The level designs are actually pretty decent for the most part and it controls well enough, but for a series built around pinball-esque physics and momentum it was a huge disappointment to have a sequel ignore all of that.

>>381965271
What you're not grasping is the inconsistency here.
Episode I still has mostly normal, Sonic-like physics for slowly accelerating to high speed. But then you let go of the d-pad and instantly come to a stop.
The inconsistency here is what's really fucking frustrating.

In Mega Man, Rayman, or Klonoa, pressing left or right instantly moves you to the left or right at top or nearly top speed. These games also have lots of precision platforming that this style of jump controls perfectly suits.

>>381965425
Did I say they were? Anon was crying because momentum was removed from jumping, and I pointed out that tons of other platformers do this and it's not an inherently bad thing.

>>381966040
See: >>381965994
God damn, you're clueless.

>>381965994
It's an annoying inconsistency but one you can adapt to fairly quickly. While momentum-based movement is IMO preferable and creates a higher skill ceiling (having to account for momentum when making jumps is more involved than the character stopping on a dime) it's not like the alternative is game-ruining.

taxman, i love you but please put the other mobile ports on PC

>>381966118
You okay anon?

>>381965854
i'm pretty sure 4 was designed as a mobile exclusive spin-off in the first place

anyway i always thought it was amazing that fans somehow know more about the physics of the genesis games than the actual developers

>>381966294
You can adapt, but it never feels right. It always feels a bit like you're fighting the game just to do normal shit like jump on a platform.

I can't fucking believe that people here are ACTUALLY defending Dimps. What fucking wack-ass timeline did I walk into and get me the fuck out. The only thing that the Dimps games ever had that was good was music and even Sonic 4 somehow by some magic fucked that up.

>>381959207
they're not nearly as anti-consumer as nintendo

the fact that they actually allowed you to upload any rom you want to their emulator thing is proof of that

Is Mania proof that the West can be better then the East?

>>381966624
Sonic 3 music wasn't that bad. The compositions were decent (well minus the boss music), it's just the faux-Genesis synths they used that hurt it.

>>381966835
sonic 2 and 3&K were made by americans

CD was made by japan

>>381966925
Pretty sure 2 and 3K teams were a mix.

Yuji Naka leaving is what killed Sonic Team.

>>381963267
So not Sonic.

>>381967861
Yup. Just like all of the handheld and 3D games.

>>381967961
So shit then.

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none of them

>>381968273
Fuck off, retard.

>>381968273
Outside of graphics and music this was worse than Sonic 4. Too bad eShop doesn't give refunds.

>>381966860
Nah, Sonic 4's compositions are extremely simple and repetitive by Sonic standards.
Good instruments would help, but the music would still be pretty poor.

Just compare:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cu3Q7mdK4hc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4DHAWUVuTBo

>>381968463
Other Sonic games have excellent music though. I said Sonic 4's were merely decent. I'm aware there's a huge downgrade from the classics to 4.

>>381968406
>Freedom Planet
>worse than Sonic 4
How?

>>381968463
the weird thing about the old sonic music is that it was relatively simple in terms of instrumentation, just listen to the demos which were like 4 channels at most

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8LAMtxECpvw

i don't understand how they fucked up 4

>>381968658
Equally shit physics, levels are overly long and have tons of copy-pasted sections, bosses are garbage except for the praying mantis, combat is unnecessary and poorly implemented.

>>381968947
There's so much wrong in this post I doubt you even played the game, and I posted this: >>381968321

>>381968648
Ah, I got the impression you were saying it was just the bad instruments holding the music back. If that wasn't what you were saying, then I don't disagree.

>>381968681
>the weird thing about the old sonic music is that it was relatively simple in terms of instrumentation, just listen to the demos which were like 4 channels at most
Yes, and that's probably due to technical limitations of the hardware, but they make great use of all the instruments available. All of them contribute a ton almost all the time.