The fundemental problem of turn based JRPGs is the fact that

>>381849134
Atelier and Final fantasy8

>>381849134
There's already another FFF thread up.
>>381840858

In the second Hyperdimension Neptunia game, as long as you do every mission as soon as they're available (Except for hunting the dangerous enemies), you'll never need to grind for anything except the first Brave fight, but that's not because you'll be underlevelled, it's because you're restricted to two party members (One of which hasn't been in your party since near the beginning of the game).

>>381849390
It wasn't meant to be a FFF thread, but I'll ask there instead since that thread seems to be a general JRPG one.

>>381849134
Did that guy in draw-threads ever get this character getting fucked over a barrel or whatever his request was?

>>381849134
>For example, Pokemon HGSS between the final Johto Gym and the Elite 4; while technically doable without grinding, the massive jump between Clair and Lance is huge, particularly since most players likely wouldn't even have more than two party members above level 40 post-Clair, assuming they've been trying to keep a balanced party.
wait, was that supposed to be hard
that's a poor example

the real dumb bit was how you'll probably still be in the low 50s by the time you face Red if you didn't really grind

>>381849762
It was the complaint I saw most often on /vp/ about the game's level scaling, but yeah, Red probably works better.

>>381849762
>the real dumb bit was how you'll probably still be in the low 50s by the time you face Red if you didn't really grind
I did a playthrough of heartgold recently and by the time I got to red, my team was 58-64; without any grinding in kanto.

JRPGs haven't required grinding since the NES days. If you need to grind to pass a boss then you suck at the game.

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>>381849390
Never mind I didn't read the OP, this is actually a good thread.
>>381849134
>The fundemental problem of turn based JRPGs is the fact that one can simply grind at any time to bypass a challenge, whether through money/item grinding or level grinding
That's not really a problem. Grinding is a way of decreasing the game's difficulty by increasing character strength to compensate for player weakness. In this way, people can enjoy JRPGs even if they don't feel like getting gud. But it doesn't detract from the experience one can have if they choose not to grind.
>Similarly, there may often be enemies that CANNOT be defeated without grinding due to level jumps or other instances of poor game design, ultimately making the game far less skill dependent
That's different, and I agree that it's an issue. If a game CANNOT be beaten without obtaining exp from optional fights then the whole design is dramatically affected. In a good JRPG it's usually possible to win without grinding and the fun comes from challenging yourself to find an optimal tactic. But if exp gather sections are mandatory, the focus shifts. Since there is no clear line on what level is the minimum, what resources a player should have, etc. instead of striving for success with minimum resources it becomes about gather resources most efficiently. So even if you could emerge victorious over a boss in a one hour fight, this kind of game design encourages you to grind for half an hour and win in 10 minutes with little effort. So I think the ideal sort of game design in this sort of JRPG is to make each boss fight beatable for experienced players and 'grinding' encounters available but optional (either completely out-of-the-way or easily avoidable).

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>>381849134
If you grind in this game you'll hit a wall that you can't pass because enemies scale up with you and much faster than you do. It also basically requires you to keep a wiki tab open because everything is so fucking obtuse

>>381851085
>Are there any games of this genre that manage to do away with these issues?
I think it's fine if you could just balance the game as described above. I recall Radiant Historia was pretty well balanced without optional fights, plus it encouraged party variety by having battles that reward the utilization of each character's niche.
Another way to balance things would be to provide ample resources but also an evaluation metric that weighs against resource gathering; for example in the Fire Emblem series newcomers can clear each map of enemies whereas experienced players will pass up those experience points to get a lower turncount.
The above largely applies to games where combat and tactics are the focus. There's an equally viable branch of JRPGs that focuses on adventure. In the SaGa series you might find a boss too strong depending on your party and other details of your playthrough, but you don't really have to worry about grinding or anything of the sort because enemies level alongside you and there are many other quests to pursue. In this way you can continue on your adventure and make strategic choices in your party building to help you overcome the challenge without bogging the game down with tedious grinding. This sort of game isn't as focused on giving you the exact right tools to clear an obstacle, but the appeal is more about developing your own strategies and each playthrough is unique.

I haven't played Pokemon since HGSS came out so I can't remember the details but I'm pretty sure I had no issues with the game's difficulty. Games with monster collection like Pokemon and SMT are hard to balance because there are so many different creatures available, there's a lot of variety in how the player's team will turn out.

>>381849134
any lewds?

>>381850708
Yeah they toned it down in dragon quest.

Final Fantastys post 10 as well.

>>381849134
What am I supposed to do with her? Just got Galdo and, while Harley is hot, her damage seems kind of shitty, and she's frail as hell.

On topic, Fire Emblem generally has good level scaling, and you CAN'T grind in most games. While technically possible to be fucked by bad level ups, it's extremely unlikely.

>>381849134
You sound like one of those people who spend hours level grinding and farming equipment and then have the audacity to bitch about a game being easy. That's a matter of choice. YOU are the problem.

>>381851803
I found of my biggest problems with this gale is how they inteoduce a ton of characters fast yet then don't really do anything with them story wise.

I mainly used the characters I liked and yeah she does feel weak sauce:

>>381849134
No grinding in Crono Cross.

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>>381851085
>>381851315
This is nice post

>>381852162
Harley is fast as Fuck and usually set up status effects for fang and pippin.

That's why you make your game a tactical RPG and make it so you can't replay encounters once you beat them

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>>381849134
So is FFF one of the JRPGs that fall victim to this problem? I want to play it because it's the JRPG with the cutest girls that can run on my PC, but forced grinding really detracts from my enjoyment.

>>381854778
For the most part, no. There are some jumps, but you can raise and lower difficulty at any time if you need to.