Does Kirby need innovation?

HAL talked about doing a 3D Kirby a couple years or so ago, so I think that'll happen one day at least.

>>381827885
They've been experimenting on how it works with the 3D Blast side games but they have to find a way to keep the controls simple enough to stay true to Kirby norm.

From an outsider's perspective the kirby games do seem to lack a lot of innovation, and they pretty much do I guess but each one has small changes between. And also they're really cute and fun to play so I never mind getting a new one even if its similar to the others.
But if they don't appeal to you don't sweat it, not all games have to :^)

>>381827371
Need?
No, not necessarily.
But it would be nice to see more experimentation and different games like Mass Attack or Canvas Curse. The core gameplay of a normal Kirby game is good (at least to the people who play and like the games, which I am part of). It's at a point where I do have some modicum of confidence in HAL since they have shown time and time again with games like Robobot and Boxboy! that they are capable of making great new stuff, but the current gameplay seems to work well enough with some minor changes as such that it feels kind of like a "if it isn't broken, don't fix it" scenario. I just don't know.

>>381827371
Not every game needs to be a 10/10 masterpiece, there is a reason why those are special.
I like how consistent the Kirby games are, it won't knock me off the park but I always know I will be getting something valuable. It's the Slice of Life of video games.

>>381828957
Just give me more crystal shard like kirby and we gucci. I don't want more stories about kirby losing his fucking strawberry short cakes.

I'd really like to see Kirby do something completely unexpected one day. Robobot was definitely a welcome surprise and a step in that direction. What I'd like to see is 64/Klonoa style levels that weave in and out of 3D space again, with super lush environments and plenty of secrets. Perhaps even taking a page out of Mario World's book with a cohesive over world and hundreds of secret exits and branching level progressions that utilize the various copy abilities.

Also I'd love to see them try and bring the Dreamland 3 pastel look into a 3D artstyle. I bet they'd nail it given how great current Nintendo handles it's craft styled visuals.

I just want a really difficult hard mode.

Like, have the first world be True Arena difficulty. I want a Kirby game that will kick my fucking ass and force me to push myself.

Keep the normal easy mode because that's what the series is built on. That's good for the kids and first time vidya players the series is aimed at, and for people who just want more comfy safe Kirby - there's nothing wrong with that. But as someone who started playing Kirby 20ish years ago, I have no interest in most of the new games. Not just cause it's the same but cause they're just too easy for me to even enjoy. A lot of Kirby games actually have lots of cool things you can do with the powers, especially the KSS type ones where powers have plenty of moves, but you almost never need to use them.

I liked the challenge courses in dream collection a lot because getting the best medals actually took effort. I want more of that, more fast fun crazy Kirby power action. Have it be an option from the beginning and not something that needs to be unlocked, and you'd have a Kirby game I'd buy. I think a lot of long time fans would appreciate this option.

The hard mode in the very first Kirby was great. I want that but with all the updates made to modern Kirby gameplay. And to be a bit harder than that challenge mode was.

theyve experimented and proven that 3D movement really doesnt work well at all
honestly its better to take a concept that works and slowly expand on it instead of trying to innovate for no reason

Kirby doesn't need innovation, please don't ruin my favorite franchise like paper mario or fire emblem.

In any 1 kirby game you go through so many different movesets as you play the game that it always feels refreshing

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>only kirby thread on /v/ right now
unrelated, but GiM is one of the screwiest enemy designs in the kirby series imo

>>381827371
Yes, Kirby needs innovation. It needs to figure out how to do 3D, and really bring Dream Land to life. It needs to figure out how to do new things with Kirby and his abilities. Even early, 8-bit titles like Kirby's Dream Land and Kirby's Adventure felt like you were traversing a cohesive world, full of life. Each classic Kirby game either introduced something totally new, that can be used freely to experiment, or polished it up into something even better. If a 3D Kirby has to have clunky controls, lifeless worlds, floating cubes, a static camera, and the generic enemies we've seen a million times, while the game Donkey Kong can eventually evolve into Super Mario Odyssey, then there's nobody of worth left at Hal Laboratory.

I just want a sequel to Air Ride with online multiplayer

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>>381834895
If he doesn't come back in Kirby Switch I'm going to be unsurprisingly disappointed.

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>>381836040
perhaps?

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>>381837145
Hardly. From the trailer it's pretty evident that the combinations will only be either applying elements to another ability, or one-time combination attacks like the curling stone.

>>381837145
>implying Wheel will be in Kirby Switch
>implying combos that aren't just SqSq imbuements will be fully fledged abilities
>implying combo abilities will get their own helpers

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>>381837732
wheel is too essential for an anniversary game to leave it out, especially in one with helpers
and i can dream, dammit

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It does. Rainbow Curse was the first true stinker of the series, and Triple Deluxe is just Return to Dreamland-lite. Planet Robobot is just a mod.

>>381827371
50% of the time Kirby is innovation.
Half of the current available Kirby games are experiments.

>>381838018
>wheel is too essential for an anniversary game to leave it out
What are we, made of money? That's too much effort to make all the helpers able to ride it, with 2 other players there would be too much experimentation, and there aren't shoulder rides in this one because that would require too many animations for something superfluous. You want helpers, or do you want fluff? Wheelie would make 4-player Kirby gameplay too confusing, anyway. And how would we give Wheelie a hat, to set the helper apart? Just put it right between his handlebars? That would look ridiculous.

So what power combo are you guys hoping to see again?

Fridge for me

>>381838570
oh please
helpers could ride each other like in RtDL, and whoever's carrying everyone can act normally
it really shouldn't be that hard to pull off
it would end up just like wheelie rider in super star

and they can do whatever for the hats, it really isnt that big of a deal

>>381837145
i feel wheel will be a weapon instead of an element

>>381839003
Better luck next time.

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>>381838570
That seems like a rather superfluous argument given that they were preparing to do exactly all that in the GCN game, they just scrapped it because it didn't turn out how they wanted. The Wheel hat thing is a good point, though. Maybe they'll just have the old standby and have plain Wheels but helpers are Wheelie Riders.

>>381838741
Lightsaber was the GOAT Kirby ability

>>381839353
>they were preparing to do exactly all that in the GCN game
And look how that turned out. It was a bad idea then, it's a bad idea now. What do you want, real helpers and real abilities or confusing garbage?
>Maybe they'll just have the old standby and have plain Wheels but helpers are Wheelie Riders.
What, just the plain black tube? Those don't stand out at all, so they'll hit people who can't notice them, and even if people looked really hard for them nobody would recognize them as Wheelies.

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>tfw switch kirby has 4 players so i thought that we were getting a return to the amazing mirror map

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>>381839620
I highly doubt the one mechanic that actually survived the canceled game and made it into RtDL was the reason the entire project was canned. I don't know what logic you have where some helpers and abilities are "real" and some aren't.

>hose don't stand out at all, so they'll hit people who can't notice them, and even if people looked really hard for them nobody would recognize them as Wheelies

Please don't tell me you have this problem. I honestly can't fathom that this is an actual issue people would have. I could recognize those shits at 5 years old.

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>>381839620
>implying wheel isnt a real ability & wheel isnt a helper
>actually nitpicking about the old wheelie's design, which was used in kss(u), nitd, and amazing mirror, and worked in all of them
this has to be bait

>[piggybacking] was a bad idea then, its a bad idea now
umm

Is this the borb thread?

>>381840309
its certainly shaping up to be one, it seems

>>381839949
>>381840018
Wheelie + "piggybacking" + 4-player is a terrible idea. In RtDL it wasn't a big deal. There was no wheelie, and only 3 skeletons to make that pose for (Kirby + Waddle Dee, Meta Knight, and King Dedede). For helpers, there would be many different skeletons to make that pose for. If there was a Wheelie in the mix, you would be constantly leaving each other behind, too, since there are 2 other characters to worry about. There's a reason Wheel wasn't in RtDL.

>>381840650
big deal
so the other players turn into stars and follow player one, just like in super star
and as for the skeletons, its clear that the devs are going all out with this, so animation for each helper should definitely be a priority

the only thing i see a problem with is other people piggybacking kirby while he's in wheel form

>>381827371
I disagree

Robobot blew me the fuck away, it was such a great game that it's my favorite in the series now

Kirby doesn't really need to change, it just needs variation and LORE

>tfw I didn't figure out that Star Dream attacks you with the objects stuck on NOVA the first time around

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>>381838570
>one of Nintendo's most popular franchises that shits out triple-A games at an alarming rate
>lol no would take too long

>>381841576
>Kirby
>triple-A
Kirby hasn't had one in over a decade. Every Kirby game is a budget title in one way or another, one A at best.

>>381841738
what was the last good kirby game in your opinion, then?

I was thinking about this the other day, Kirby games reuse most of their enemies, music and gameplay elements but we always play the games and adore them. How can they get away with it?

>>381827371
Ssu and am were both amazing to me

>>381841829
You don't know what AAA means.

>>381827371
It's hard to say... You would think the same old formula would get boring... But I still tend to enjoy kirby games. It's like the only nintendo related thing that hasn't dropped in quality.

Kirby 64 did wow me a few times.

The final boss and the Boss Rush are still some of my favorite video game memories, even though the vast majority of people who played that game didn't experience them.

>>381841939
Answer the question Anon

>>381841837
>the wii game didn't even sell as well as the n64 game, despite being on a much more popular platform
Are they?

>>381841939
system seller
like zelda or mario
once again,
what was your last good kirby game

>>381840905
>the only thing i see a problem with is other people piggybacking kirby while he's in wheel form
Wouldn't be too difficult to just model Kirby after a wheelie rider, except maybe with a star instead of an eye, while being ridden on.

>>381830860
>my children's game about a pink puff ball living in a world of soft cute characters needs a tense and dramatic narrative
autism

>>381842416
>Kirby

>A children's game

>

>>381830860
>>381842416
Well they have been changing the plot consistently and keeps on escalating in Triple Deluxe and Planet Robobot

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>>381827371
>shows classic kirby
>"WAH KIRBY LOOKS TOO PLAIN"
>redesigns kirby to be more hip
>"WHY DID THEY CHANGE KIRBY FUCKING JEWS DESTROYING CLASSIC STUFF FOR MONEY"
I guess you don't appreciate things until they're gone.

>>381842416
This, the teams behind Kirby are autistic. Look at the atmosphere for Kirby's Dream Land, look at the atmosphere for shit like Kirby 3 or Kirby 64. What the fuck were they thinking? Why do you need edgy faggots and serious themes in a fucking game about a fucking pink ball? It's fucking retarded, just keep Dedede like Mario kept Bowser. You don't see Mario facing inner termoil, losing friends in battle, and fighting terror gods of space and time or such autistic fucking nonsense. Kirby hasn't been good since that shitty twist in the NES game.

>>381842517
ah yes I remember the days
playing planescape torment while I was at recess in elementary school
truly, we are an enlightened bunch :^)\

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Oh sweet, is this a Kirby thread?

>>381842746
>I want my final bosses to be fucking boring
>I want Dedede to be behind it every time
Mario fans actually complain about Bowser being used as the big bad over and over, at least in RPGs.

>>381842729
I will never understand people who get legitimately upset at Teen Titans Go for not being serious like the old show. It's the best long-form trolling I've ever seen

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>>381842316
but that'd probably be too much of a change to wheel's design
maybe he can gain a seat only while he's carrying helpers
or maybe only wheelie bikes can be ridden
i dunno, its a pretty superficial thing as it stands and the game devs are probably gonna have much better ideas than any of us here anyway

>>381842416
not gonna really go into it but it sure can be a little more tense than compared to say the original dreamland
more recent titles like the kumazaki trilogy along with certain classics like shimomura's games have narratives that are a little darker, and those were all kinds of spectacular

>>381827371
It's Nintendo's fifa, retards are still buying it every year so why stop now?

>>381842729
>redesigns kirby to be more hip
They literally designed him to be less hip. Compared to the older games like Adventure and Superstar he's less angry, less manly, and more cutesey, his traits of being lazy and clutzy were amplified, they redesigned his personality and mannerisms to be even more childlike, and gave him a baby voice to seal the deal. Where have you been?

>>381827371
Where you one of the guys I was talking to 2 days ago in the AM2R thread?

>>381827371
Kirby should get a massive "metroidvania" style game.
And by that I really only mean a traditional Kirby game. But with all of the levels connected into one absolutely massive game world as opposed to small little stages.

And then you'd unlock various secrets. Like taking the ice power from one side of the map all the way over to another part of the map. Perhaps stacking up on followers made from rare powers and then use different powers in succession if you managed to get to a certain point with your whole crew still together and so on.

And you could remove the infinite jumping and have it like in Smash. But then you could have power ups giving you additional air time, and eventually infinite jumping.
Stronger suck power ups.
Stronger spit power ups.
Power specific power ups.
Power combinations.

And you could unlock powers so that they'd be readily available for you to pick at your save station safe-houses/rooms/whatever throughout the world map. So that you could get access to certain powers without necessarily having to travel to remote corners of the map every time.

I don't know. I feel like it's a concept that could be well worth exploring.

>>381843242
Holy cow, I want that Waddle Dee in front.

>>381843413
Kind of like a modern Hebereke.

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>>381842746
I'd say otherwise, the surprise Nightmare battle was fantastic. Plus King Dedede is becoming more of a final boss nowadays which I really appreciate.

>>381842729

I Don't think a new look for Kirby is in order. Mario looks prettymuch the same as he did in 64 with a much better model.

His games just need some sort of spice to make them all not blend together so much. Like a change of setting or some new mechanic that says "this is the reason I have to play this game"

Nothing about the new Kirby trailer has grabbed me much beyond the Wii Kirby. I Don't know if there are going to be any surprises or levels designed in exciting new ways.

Kirby is kind of like the cute platformer equivalent of a CoD campaign. Their levels always hit the same notes and keep the experience nice and breezy without a lot of surprises or twists, but over time they have started to seriously blend together as a result.

Innovation is nothing but a meme, but Kirby is also stagnant as fuck with three games in a row that do the exact same shit but slightly better execution each time while in the past Kirby shook up its structure and improved its mechanics constantly

The new game on Switch seems to be the first one since Amazing Mirror or Canvas Curse to be making any real good shakeups

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>>381843109
dumb question but i wonder if the american kirby glare counts as a redesign
less of a kawaii pink dreampuff and more of a tiny ball of infinite power

tbqh both descriptions are becoming more true as of recent games, considering the villains thereof

>>381843242
I want to die and go to that kirby plushie paradise.

>>381843521
That game is cool.

>>381843604

>innovation is a meme

Pack it up, everyone! No need to keep making video games. The craft has reached its peak

>>381843630
luckily paradise only costs >$300 for a plane ticket
no death necessary
okay maybe if you dont have a good job for it but ymmv

>>381843242
Great to see Taranza, Magolor, and Susie there. But I am surprised that Marx is there, does this mean HAL is going to do something with to him soon?

>>381838079
Rainbow Curse was fine my dude.

>>381843789
I have the money but my vacations start until December.

>>381843935

Rainbow curse was great even

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>be kirby
>have shit games
>be pink so people like me
Nintendo is truly the ruse master.

>>381843878
i doubt it
marx getting killed twice was enough i think
its probably because kssu was one of the biggest and best kirby games to date, and HAL somehow decided "hey it needs more recognition or somehting"

though im a bit surprised that ol Haltmann didnt get a plush
he seems perfectly round for it
all thats left is sectonia but i'd bet that'd cost way too much to manufacture

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>>381827371
While I think innovating just for the sake of innovating is a bad idea, I do agree they could shake up Kirby a bit more. That 3D game they've been hinting at for a while now could be that breath of fresh air. Though I don't know how they'd make it different from its other 3D platforming contemporaries. My personal fever dream is either a slick DMClike Kirby beat em up, with gameplay that involve you sucking up enemies and changing powers mid combo or a Kirby rpg.

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The amazing mirror crossed with a bullet hell. its all i need.

>>381843781
With how it's used in video games it pretty much is nothing but a meme these days. True innovation in the medium is long dead.

>>381832248
>>381832248
In my opinion the extra mode for Return to Dreamland was really great in that you had less health and the enemies attack more viciously than before. Plus the black and white void area is pretty tense with the purple matter going much faster. It just sucks that you need to complete the main game first to unlock it rather than getting it at first or at least inputting a code like what the original Dreamland games did. But they're still great fun either way.

>>381843626
Nintendo of America in the 90's until around the Wii always tried to make their games less "cartoony." Just look at the whole "Play It Loud" era. It wasn't until the Wii when they decided to just drop it and just embrace the cartoony look of their games. Funny because 3DS Kirby games both had covers with the evil smile on both covers.

>>381844141
>Be a closet faggot
>Hate Kirby because pink reminds you your repressed homosexuality.

>>381842729
Aside from anger eyes, Kirby's design has never changed all that much. He definitely hasn't been made to look hip or anything. His eyes got bigger and he got more pink, that's it.

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>>381835109
Well the Kumazaki games do bring these games to life in my opinion. Each area does something new and different from other worlds, and feels like you're visiting different areas of the world unlike the 2D Mario games.

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>>381844751
>be anon
>have to project this hard because meany made fun of my childrens game

>>381827371
Kirby is a series pumped pretty small budget and short development cycles. The series do extremely well sales-wise on that formula and it's the perfect thing to throw out when a system is having a drought considering how easy they are to make.

Mainline Kirby does need to take a step forward if it wants to impress people again instead of being cute but forgotten shortly after release, but there's no real incentive for it. I don't think Hal has the capability of doing it either to be honest, they seem to be a pretty tiny studio and haven't done anything besides Kirby sidescrollers and e-shop games since Air Ride under Sakurai's guidance.

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>>381844141
>>381844751
>>381845012
You not liking the Kirby games is fine, just find something you enjoy is all that matters.

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But just how MUCH innovation do you really want, OP? Careful what you wish for...

>>381844393

I can't help but think you're dumb

The very concept of trying new things out with gameplay and the medium is a meme?

If this were true I'd probably be done with games. I don't subscribe to the Activision/Call of Duty philosophy of game design

>>381845276
Best part of the 25th anniversary website right here.

>>381845303

>some guy tried something new and fucked up once, so all games should now be the same!!

Kirby doesn't need a radical change, there just needs to be some new ideas in the level design and additions to the core game mechanics

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>>381844304
Lets hope for a direct sooner or later. I'm very curious as to what the new game will play like.

>Does Kirby need innovation?
100% yes. Nintendo has done a great job of expanding their other franchises (Zelda went full open world, Pokemon ditched a bunch of series staples, the Mario series is going fucking bonkers with Odyssey) , but kirby always feels same-y.

I don't even know how they'd change it up, maybe something like this though >>381843413

Amazing mirror was fun, but it wasn't really a metroidvania per se, and it definitely lacked the progression of one.

Something that might be cool is adding an RPG like element, where you can upgrade copy powers by using them, etc

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>>381843630
>local man drowns in cute plushies
>becomes a fad and all wars end

>>381845303
They literally made a Metroid Prime Pinball and no one gave a fuck. Federation Force was fine it's just people hated it because there was no real Metroid game coming out. If Federation Force was announced beside Prime 4 and Metroid 2 Remake everyone would look at Federation Force the same way people looked at Triforce Heroes. Just a random game that some might just pick up and enjoy or not but not have no real hate for it.

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>>381844269
Maybe original spider form Sectonia would be easy to make a plush since Taranza is there, but Queen Sectonia would be great as a figure. Also Haltmann's mech, I need that as well.

https://discord.gg/bHX7mz7

>>381845862
>Fuckers had 3 games in less than 3 years
>Still bitch

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>there are people who want Marx to come back

He already fucking came back, that was the whole point of the end of True Arena.

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>>381845276
>being more of a faggot than Kirby looks

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>>381846176
But what if he does? What will you do anon?

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>>381846316
Be rather surprised but happy for those who wanted his return.

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>>381846314
Don't be upset buddy.

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>>381846563
Same here. Who I really want to see back is this nigga right here, he's been out of the game for too long.

>>381844915
I'm talking about the cancelled 3D Kirby game, and to a lesser extent Blowout Blast. Is that really the best they can do? I want Kirby's equivalent to Super Mario Odyssey, Kirby's equivalent to Breath of the wild. Hell since he hasn't truly gone 3D yet an answer to Super Mario 64 and Ocarina of Time. I'm getting a bit bored of the tile-based 2.5D platformers. Sure they're better than NSMB but they're nowhere close to how good a 3D Kirbyw game with modern hardware could be, and their attempts at 3D we've seen are even worse.
But Robobot is good at keeping the spirit of adventure and progression alive, even if it isn't quite as robust as some previous titles. It's a big step up from Triple Deluxe.

>>381846161
Nintendo really blew it showing off Federation Force last E3. They should have said they were working on the Metroid 2 Remake along side it. While I hate the bitching it got Nintendo really were fucking moronic for showing off that weird side game after years of nothing.

>>381844304
>While I think innovating just for the sake of innovating is a bad idea
What does that even mean? You can only innovate if you have a good idea to move something forward. If you don't it's just a superfluous addition or minor change.

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>>381827371
Nintendo announced a new Kirby game! Nintendo WON!

>>381846807
the worst thing about that game tbph was its timing
everything else was mediocre at worst

>>381846947
kirby=victory, anon
accept it

There was a period where Kirby was bursting with innovation, but it became kind of incessant, and I think sales reflected that, prompting Nintendo to go the safe route. They'll probably swing in the other direction again

>>381846942
Well that's what I mean. Just tossing in a new gameplay style or gimmick purely for the purpose of shaking up a formula with out properly thinking it through could result in a bad game. I worded that awkwardly, my bad.

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>>381829654
This. There are changes in the modern Kirby games, but you'd have to play them in order to notice them. Plus if it doesn't appeal to you, then don't play it and find something else you should spend your to time to.

>>381846947
>Hating on Kirby
People just enjoy a fun Kirby game. No one is saying it's the biggest series ever. Just that it's always at least fun at worse. No bad game among them and they are always doing weird things with him which makes it even better.

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>>381846736
That would be interesting. It was sort of cool that him and the gang came back in Mass Attack but since I never felt like going for hints, they might as well have not existed for me. I don't think I have any Squeak images saved

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>>381846947
It's missing DL2, Triple Deluxe, Robobot, and this

>>381847259
>Got this with a Kirby Keychain
It's one of my favorite gaming merchandise I own.

>>381847256
There's nothing wrong with that. You don't like the latest Kirby games?

>>381847193
which period was that?
the gamecube era, while sakurai was still involved? Kumazaki's era?

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>>381846947
>>381847321
Not only that, but 7 is a remake of 2 and 9 is from the same game as 5. Plus Whispy Woods is a staple boss from Kirby and will always pull something weird like the Twin Woods from Super Star or, like you've said, Clanky Woods from Planet Robobot.

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> a frog's hair away from finishing my series-long anniversary marathon
>Robobot True Arena stands in the way

Fuck whoever thought that shit at the end was funny.

>>381846947
Getting angry at Whispy Woods is like getting angry at Green Hill Zone

>>381847806
If you didn't see the "Perfect!" screens of DL2, DL3, and K64, then everything you've done doesn't count.

>>381827371
>need kirby innovation
>kirby sucks
>make kirby blow

this isnt difficult

>>381847424
There is also the Shimorua era, and the Flagship period. I think anon is referring to the Flagship era in which Amazing Mirror, Nightmare in Dreamland, Canvas Curse, and Squeak Squad were released.

>>381847391
Gimmicks like the Robobot armor and the super inhale were thought out and well implemented anon. And they didn't completely shake up the formula of the games, just add on to the gameplay set by previous titles. I still liked them however.

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>>381847193
I'd hope so, I'm still buying and enjoying every single one of these games but I've avoided defending it recently, every time I expect its the last one and the next will do it differently but then they go at it again
My excuse for them this time is that Nintendo forced their hands in order to give the Switch a classic catalogue early on, while HAL might've wanted to mix it up Nintendo saw the Wii U failed and didn't have a flagship 3D Mario, 3D Zelda, Kiby platformer, hell maybe even Metroid, and felt it needed to fill that quota. While those series made the 3D jump ages ago now the Kirby formula is so proven they that changing it is too risky, and would also take longer and be more effort than a game HAL could probably make in their sleep at this point.

Also I don't now if it necessarily had an innovative period, what I do know is that it was never on such a high iterative output, mainline titles where few and far in between in different consoles, and anything we got in the meantime stood out, gimmicks could easily be considered innovative when the base game wasn't exactly the same. Nowdays spin-offs are ignored for being different and mainline games are seen as the last game but remixed.

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What are some videogame characters or bosses that could pass on as kirby enemies? I think the Ultra Beasts from Pokemon could 100% fit in Kirby games

>>381847424
From Kirby's Dream Land to Kirby Canvas Curse. It kind of settled down around Canvas Curse, with only a few spin-offs from other companies mixing things up. Epic Yarn was good.

>>381847923
You're the only one talking about "well though out" and even then it's a vague and irrelevant phrase to tack on as a cop-out, "tossing a new gameplay style or gimmick purely for the purpose of shaking up a formula" to define forced-innovation is accurate whether the result is good or bad.

>>381827371
I just wish they would change the engine to actually make the multiple moves you have more free form like in SS and I wish they'd work on the boss formula. The past few games get annoying with their invulnerability periods and animations eating up time.

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>>381847874
Of course I did, what kind of casual do you take me for? That was actually my first time playing through 64 all the way to the end, I didn't have an N64 growing up and Crystal Shards was the one game I didn't get around to playing when I bought Dream Collection.

>>381827371
>but all the same

Stopped reading there. If you think all the kirby games are the same, then you are a idiot. Probably someone who screams rehash everytime Nintendo releases a franchise sequel as well. Do you think Super Mario 64 is the same as Sunshine? Do you think Kirby and the Crystal Shards is the same as Kirby Super Star? Do you think Super Mario Bros 3 is the same as Super Mario World? Do you think Donkey Kong Country 2 is the same as Donkey Kong Country 3? I could go on and on. Innovation isn't about how drastically different something is, its about whatever differences there are in the first place. Anybody, ANYBODY for example, can watch the trailers for Triple Deluxe and Planet Robobot and instantly tell the differences between the two games.

>>381848341
Oh and the gimmicks get old. Super abilities, hypernova and even the robot aren't as fun as just normal abilities.

>>381847424

I would say a mix of Gamecube and WIi era, due to games like Canvas Curse, Air Ride, Amazing Mirror, Epic Yarn, and Mass Attack. I feel like for a good 7 to 8 years we had a solid amount of innovative Kirby games. After Return to Dreamland, they just sort of stuck with what they felt worked.

So, close to the time 3DS hit. I don't really see Rainbow Curse as very different, just looks like Canvas Curse 2.0 to me.

>>381848393
Oh yeah? Then how do you get to the perfect screen in 3, tough guy?

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>>381847949
Maybe that's why I liked the designs so much when everyone else was flipping a tit over how unorthodox they were
Still don't care enough to buy modern pokemon, but paper sprite, steel bell waifu and funky cable are top tier

Since its fresh on my mind because of another thread, I think NiGHTs could blend with Kirby very well

>>381848413
>Do you think Super Mario 64 is the same as Sunshine? Do you think Kirby and the Crystal Shards is the same as Kirby Super Star? Do you think Super Mario Bros 3 is the same as Super Mario World? Do you think Donkey Kong Country 2 is the same as Donkey Kong Country 3?
No, but I think Return to Dream Land, Triple Deluxe, and Planet Robobot are all pretty samey.

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you think haltmann would have settled for opening a tourist bureau or maybe a bank on pop star if he hadn't lost susie?

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>>381848617
Did 3 actually have a perfect screen? That was about a month or two ago, it's been a huge blur of Kirby. Come to think of it, did any of the Dark Matter trilogy have a perfect screen? From what I recall it was just the final boss battle, real credits and a 100% save file.

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>>381847949

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>>381846796
Ah my mistake, but I do agree in that Kirby will need to have more life in the 3D realm when it comes to that, I'm not a big fan of the isometric gameplay from Kirby Blowout Blast, however I hope they expand from this experimentation and learn how to properly bring Kirby into the 3D realm. But the 2D ones do have great background art and sometimes even abstract like Squeak Squad, and Nightmare in Dreamland. I hope they'd keep the spirit of that.

>>381848619
The moment that happened, I laughed at how upset they were. Casual Pokemon fans were so upset that Ultra Beasts were designed how they were supposed to be; strange and different. They are from another dimension and aliens, of course they're supposed to look like that. I love them so much

>>381848786
Each of those games has a secret perfect screen. It's a dedicated screen, that tells you you are perfect, beyond the 100%. For 2 you simply have to beat the boss rush without taking damage. Finding 3's is more insidious.

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>>381848902
We'll see, hopefully it's more like the bottom here than the middle.

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>>381848413
"all the same" is a figure of speech..

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You are buying him right?

>>381849280
>comes with parts for the original
yes

>>381849280
I don't care about Blue Kirby, why not make an ice nedroid of the REAL Kirby?

No it doesn't. Don't try to fix what isn't broken in the slightest.

>>381849394
This, Kirby's Adventure was a mistake. We didn't need abilities, we didn't need new final bosses, we needed focus.

>>381827371
I think hal should make a kirby game like melee

>>381848729
Return to Dreamland can be four player.
Triple Deluxe has the hypernova.
Robobot has the robot combinations.
Not samey at all. Anybody can play those three games and get entirely different experiences.

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>>381847306
Then I'll be of assistance.

>>381849486
>optional co-op
>a stage puzzle gimick
>a very limited power-up
And besides that? They're pretty much the same thing. Are you that guy that argues that each entry of NSMB is worthwhile because some have new power-ups and optional co-op?

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>>381849103
>not on any of the Kirby wikis
>only image I could find was from Crystal Shards

I am incredibly confused.

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>>381848751
Nah, he'll still believe they're all dirty sub-borbs that needs to be terminated.

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>>381849280
>haven't been able to get the original or borb

Feels bad, man.

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>>381849483
But Smash Bros is already a Kirby game.

>>381849629
>And besides that?
You mean the most important aspects of those games? The entire point of them being different in the first place?
>Are you that guy that argues that each entry of NSMB is worthwhile because some have new power-ups and optional co-op?
Not comparable at all. Hypernova entirely changed the gameplay experiences, and Robobot gave entirely new spins on powers. Your comparision would only work if a power up in NSMB completely altered how you play the game itself, or gave you a entirely new set of powers. Both cases do not apply to NSMB.

If I were to make a half assed assumption on the comparison you just made, I would say your main complaint is the kirby artstyles being too similar, in which case I would say for Deluxe and Robobot that is true, but it doesn't change the fact of how different the gameplay is.

anyone have a link to that one archived thread where star dream got leaked?

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>>381849734
It's a well-kept secret. I made a couple threads about it when I discovered it but now there's something kind of special about a feature in a popular game very few people know about.

We need an Air Ride 2

>>381850165
>You mean the most important aspects of those games?
>tacked on, anti-experimentation anti-freedom gimmicks are the most important aspects of these games
That's pretty sad. You forgot the ultra abilities from RtDL too. Or you would have if you didn't have multiplayer to scapegoat instead.

>>381849939
they are re releasing the original

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>>381850297
https://boards.fireden.net/v/thread/335538230/
enjoy it, it's better than this thread has been

>>381849629
Not that guy, but they're also changes to powers such as Sword getting a buff and themes that only shows up at a specific game like the void area from Return to Dreamland, and Triple Deluxe's introduction to dodges and spot dodges plus background/foreground interaction. Planet Robobot is similar to Triple Deluxe, in which the only difference is the mech environment and a superpower the blends the gameplay pretty damn well.

>>381850441
>Your forgot the ultra abilities
Oh shit your right, my bad. That too.
>Well I did not like what made those games unique and special
Then I suggest you quit the Kirby series, since stuff like that is always going to happen. After all, its the whole point of Kirby, the same great basic gameplay, but with a added twist to keep it fresh and new. And yes, of course if you take away the entire point of making new games, then you take away the only thing keeping them unique. Are you sure you aren't the kind of person that calls every sequel Nintendo makes a rehash? Cause that's the vibe I am getting from you. Did you roll your eyes when they called the Splatoon sequel Splatoon 2?

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>>381850762
i swear to god they're really gonna need a miracle with switch to top this

if this game gets leaked threads are gonna go batshit

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>>381850762
I really can't wait til the next Kirby game comes out. The climax of Planet Robobot was the hypest shit I took part of.

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>>381850762
Well that's hardly a fair comparison, that's hands down one of the top 3 Kirby threads ever.

>>381851125
>After all, its the whole point of Kirby, the same great basic gameplay, but with a added twist to keep it fresh and new.
No, the point of Kirby is experimentation with and evolution of the basic gameplay, not to keep it exactly the same with a few more power-ups and a few gimmicks that are so limited they may as well be QTEs.

>>381849103
I fucking hate those fucking minigames, especially Kawasaki's.

There's only really like 3 good Kirby games. Everything else is liyrtslly Fisher price baby toy difficulty and suffers greatly because of that. They're just not fun to play.

>>381846947
rollin for my whispy

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>got hit by the heart again

Fuck this game.

>>381852560
>0
well, shit

>>381827371
Please no. Their "one game that does something weird and one game that does it safe" move is fine for me.

kirby games are like cop procedurals on TV

they are safe and predictable, and for some people that's what they want. something to mellow out with.

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>>381852386
Here's a higher quality one friendo.

>>381852576
Don't give up anon, just don't abuse your invincibility frame in that part since it bypass through all of that except PSI.

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>>381852272
I like them all especially Kawasaki's.

>>381852990
well the one i took was a screenshot of a shit youtube video so

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>>381852990
>except PSI.

I did not know that. Doesn't matter to me anyway since I'm more of a Jet guy.

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>>381852560
>>381852662
>0
>2
Well done

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>>381851348
>screenshot taken at the exact moment star dream makes the NOVA half-closed-eyes expression
that thread was blessed man

If it ain't broken, don't fix it.

That being said, the Mario formula stays basically the same, with an added gimmick each time, like Lumas, or F.L U.D, or Cappy.

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There's literally nothing wrong with a series generally being similar but of very high quality. It's not like you play the same game every time. Levels are different, they add new abilities, they add new bosses

I mean for fuck sake are people really saying that Triple Deluxe and Planet Robobot were clones of each other? I dont think they are.

The new one is focused on multiplayer again it looks like and it's been a while since we've had one of those, Kirby Wii came out 6 years ago now. And this one looks to be adding combination attacks, different/more playable characters, the return of ability combos, abilities for waddle dee(?), and of course more abilities for kirby, great new aesthetic, fun looking shit all in all.

>>381847875
Whoa...
You may be onto something there...

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>>381853054
>steamed cappies

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>>381853054
I hate seeing his smug face every time he comes up next. He just knows that it's going to be my ass on the platter soon enough.

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>>381847875
Step up Sakurai

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I just want to play as Broom Hatter.

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>>381853207
My nigga! Doing a fully charged grab attack on a boss always feels great, especially when they try to move far enough from me.

>>381827371
They change it up every now and then. Epic Yarn, Mass Attack, Canvas/Rainbow Curse, Air Ride, etc. But I like the mainline Kirby games. They're the same thing mostly but they're comfy and relaxing. The main formula stays the same but there's enough side games and deviations to keep it interesting I think.

>>381854245
>the Switch trailer showed us Cleaning, but not who gives it to you

Cheeky cunts

>>381837732
didn't they successfully combine Ice + Stone in the trailer?

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>>381854308
my aerial ability is better than yours

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>>381853090
And it's not emulated to produce crisp and clear visuals that the 3DS could produce.

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>>381853916
I was looking for this image but I just found it.

>>381854541
It's just a super move, not an imbuement or a full ability. Like those super abilities, but better.

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Fixed his design.
What other designs should I fix?

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>>381854548
But do you have a mech based on your design? Don't think so bud.

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>>381854308
>pelting bosses with sonic booms that do big damage
>i-framing through a million attacks
>grabbing and throwing projectiles
>timing your rocket dive so that it hits going up, coming down, and with the stray projectile

Cumming buckets

>>381854548
You wish.

Kirby is the perfect example of if it ain't broke don't fix it.

Hell, I wouldn't even care if copy abilities never existed. I've gotten enough playtime out of Dreamland to know the series doesn't need them.
That doesn't mean they aren't a welcome addition though.

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>>381827371
Fuck off borb

>>381854789
Turn him into a real human boy.

>>381843935
It wasn't. The controls worked against you at times, and it did the one thing no Kirby should ever do, period (If you played it, you know what I mean).

>>381853740
>>381854867
There could be room for any changes, Kirby is no stranger to that. But I still like the games that we have now and enjoy them because of how interesting and fun the levels, stages, and worlds they make them to be.

>>381855208
Kirby has had plenty of smaller spin-offs, even nowadays, where they seem to be HAL beta testing ideas before trying to incorporate them into the main series

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*blocks your path*

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>>381854828
Plus it works wonder when traversing through a stage as quick as possible. Replaying the stages with Jet is always fantastic, except when it's a water level :(

>>381827371
There have been so many variations on Kirby that I'm confused if you're uneducated or just trolling.

He was a pinball
He was a drawing game
He was a racing game
He was a strategy game
He was a wagglin' game
He was a yarn game

What else do you want Kirby to be? Will you not stop until you get that Kirby lightgun shooter?

>>381827371
That's not what bombastic means

>>381854789
What did you even do?

>>381854789
HE'S
NOT
ANGRY

>>381855439
thanks doc

>>381855439 i fail to understand this image every single time i see it

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>>381855639
Not him, but I sure as fuck want a Kirby RPG.

>>381827371
>complain about lack of innovation in kirby
>complain about lack of innovation in 2d mario
>complain about innovation in paper mario
>praise lack of innovation in upcoming metroid games
>complain about lack of innovation in star fox
>complain about innovation in zelda
how the hell do you please ninteniggers?

>>381827371
sure

they could make different genre spinoffs

like a kirby rpg

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>>381855872
I think magical starsign might be the closest we get to that.

>>381855949
>>complain about lack of innovation in kirby
Yeah that's not a valid complaint. He's been innovative as fuck.

>>complain about lack of innovation in 2d mario
If we wanted to play SMB3 again, we would.

>>complain about innovation in paper mario
Fucking no one complained about innovation, everyone just complained that the "gameplay" was absolute shit.

>>praise lack of innovation in upcoming metroid games
Everyone's hating on M2R, and feeling optimistic about MP4's Time Travel gimmick.

>>complain about lack of innovation in star fox
This is neither here nor there, because all they've fucking done is release SF64 with different coats of paint. People would like an actual game for once.

>>complain about innovation in zelda
Ok this hasn't been innovative since MM.

>>381855604
Looks like he gutted himself with his own sword

>>381856269
>Everyone's hating on M2R
Wrong. Samus Returns looks good, for the most part.

>>381827371
Don't fix what's not broken, Kirby is a winning formula that's hard to get tired of compared to other titles of the same nature. It really doesn't need to be changed very much, the small additions they add each game and the power ups themselves are enough to keep the game feel fresh.

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>>381856269
>time travel gimmick
what the actual fuck

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>>381853758
Sometime people complain just for the sake of complaining. Some get upset that people enjoy a series while their favorite sometimes don't get a mention. That build up some spite and here we are people complaining about Kirby getting games.

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>finally beat the heart

So hey, it turns out that ditching your ability and then swallowing it again lets you go through the heart attack. Good shit. And now I'm finally done with my Kirby marathon. It's been a long and awesome ride.

>>381855949
>complain about lack of innovation in kirby
>complain about lack of innovation in 2d mario
>complain about lack of innovation in star fox
Yup. Kirby hasn't taken a risk or broadened its horizons in a good while, the last good 2D Mario was Donkey Kong on the Gameboy, and Star Fox Zero was just Star Fox 64 with bad gameplay.

>complain about innovation in paper mario
>praise lack of innovation in upcoming metroid games
>complain about innovation in zelda
Nope. Paper Mario's less innovative than it was originally, Samus Returns looks good and we'll have to wait to see what Prime 4 will be, and Breath of the Wild is very good.

Kirby planet robocop had an amazing story about Japanese dudes working much and work taking over life

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>>381855604
Oh shit

>>381855949
You can argue that's it's not fair per say, for people to have different standards for different series instead of something more uniform, but it is what it is. Life is inherently unfair.

>>381842729
I'm pretty sure teen titans go is just supposed to be a billy and mandy type humor show, comparing them isn't even reasonable

>>381855872
>What is Kirby Warrior RPG

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>>381856634
You didn't really do it since you didn't find the perfect screens.

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>>381856961
Get bent

>>381857104
This will always haunt you.

>>381827371
>I cant help but look at this and think WOW ANOTHER KIRBY GAME. Is it time Kirby shake the formula up too?
Kirby Air Ride 2 fucking never

No fuck off.

I will never buy another if they do.

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>>381856634
Congratulation anon! I presume that you got the idea of that technique from a video? How the only thing that's left for you and me it's Blowout Blast, the mystery Kirby game, and the new Switch game. Oh god I don't know what to expect in the next True Arena if they pulled off that OHKO.

>>381827371
Air ride really changed up Kirby.

>>381827371
I was excited to see ability mixing from 64 in but then realized it's probably more squeak squad, but more universal

As in you can only mix Fire, Spark, Water and Ice, but you can do it with everything rather than just Sword and Bomb.

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Somewhat unrelated but do any of yall have/make any perler art?
I'm interested in making dioramas like these but im worried about how well they'd stay together

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>>381857265
>create planet-sized mechanical gods
>give them kitty faces
What the hell was up with the Ancients, anyway?

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>>381857180
Considering how perfectionist I am, you would think so. I got 200% in Tropical Freeze, after all. But a man has to know his limits, and I know I'm not good enough to do an entire boss rush without getting hit. I'm content to with getting just regular 100%.

>>381857265
>I presume that you got the idea of that technique from a video?

Actually I heard a friend of mine say that you can do that but I didn't believe him until now. I should probably apologize to him. At any rate, thank you. The wait until the next 3 games is gonna be a nice ride.

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>>381857359
Never did one, but on an unrelated note, I did make some edits for this little fad that happened.

>>381846947
5 and 9 are the same game...

>>381857525
God, I gotta finish Dong Freeze. Last I checked, I was in the first stage of the final world.

>>381857494
Maybe the Ancients just like cute shit. Can't blame them for it.

>>381856863
Damn, now I want some Marxies™

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>>381857494
Those guys were fucking weird.

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>>381856749
and missing/presumed to be dead daughter coming back.

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ud40p9Puo28

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Opinions on the galactic borb?

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>bombastic

>>381827371
the small innovations it does between games is fine, so I'd say no. From what I can tell, the new Switch Kirby might push the series powerup mechanics to a new limit though. But this is assuming that ALL powers can combine with each other, instead of just a few, a la Squeak Squad. If anything, I think the series might need better level design where it makes more use of all the powerups. Like, instead of making everything passable with vanilla kirby, make it so you're forced to use certain powers to beat specific levels. I think the designers are incredibly autistic and feel they can't include a puzzle unless they put the appropriate enemy right in front of it. So I say make puzzles that can be solved by multiple powerups.

As an aside, personally, I feel where the series needs innovation is in the artstyle. Everything else is fine, as far as innovation goes. But I hate that stupid clean plastic look they've kept for fucking four games straight. It doesn't even work for kirby, he seriously looks dirty and unappealing. Not cute at all. Ignoring the creative dreamland3/crystal shards looks, even Kirby Superstar, the series standard, is much more vibrant and colorful than this new trash.

>>381858120
the gorb?
the galorb?
the magentorb?

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>>381857953
>the ending of rtdl implies the Lor is sentient
>the Ancients created a sentient dimension-hopping ship whose parts snap off like Legos
Hell, with how much shit the Dimensional Mirror caused, I'm surprised the Ancients weren't behind that too.

They just need to make Kumazaki Kirby move faster.
And stop making Kirby say "HI" at the end of his dance.

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>>381858286
>And stop making Kirby say "HI" at the end of his dance.
for what purpose?

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>>381858120
A total jobborb

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>>381858120
I'd say he's overdue for more lore. He can take a nice long break as a boss fight, but I'd like to know at least a little more about him besides being the so-called strongest in the galaxy.

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>>381858286
I think I'd prefer if they just gave him more to say besides HIII. A nice selection of 6-7 voice clips would be lovely.

>>381842056
You're stupid
AAA just means huge budget + huge marketing

Galacta Knight is a girl and I can prove it!

>>381858332
Because the dance was better without it and I'm sick of that recycled voice clip. Same goes for his "EYY" when he gets to the goal.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IOOds4dY9pE

>>381858332
It's annoying. He vocalizes far too much now. In 64 it was saved for beating a boss.

>>381858478
aaaand the idiot is back
answer the question

>>381858478
this

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>>381858606
>his only argument is "answer my question or your point is invalidated"

lol, get fucked anon.

>>381858606
I'm a different anon than the other fag, you're still a retard though

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>you will never be a pink ball strong enough to beat eldrith abominations and so cute that bitches fall at your foot.
Why live?

>>381858606
Your question is irrelevant though. Why should he?

>>381858746
>Susie with arms

I'm triggered

>>381858286
>>381858448
This. Give Kirby some lines. You know someone at HAL wants to keep that infant Kirby from the shitty anime intact. I hated what it did to Kirby.

>>381858746
>you will never be an anon autistic and depraved enough to fantasize about being a pink ball and imagining he has a harem of half-naked girls fawning over him
Feels good.

>>381858332
>>381858527
>>381858529
I agree
I honestly hate some of the things TD introduced
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fPxxv9v-Y7g

>>381858802
mainly because i asked him the question first, then it got diverted into an argument on what exactly a triple A game is
something completely irrelevant to the conversation we were having at the time

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>>381858252
I think that's an entity all on its own. There is also the instance in which Star Dream states that it doesn't even have a clue on who or what Dark Matter actually is and it took all of it's power just to create a just a small amount of data. It's a space wish granting omnipotent machine.

>>381843531
I always forget how beautiful Kirby's Adventure looks.

>>381858912
A true depraved anon would have thought about being a pink ball voring all those girls.

>>381859036
but that's all kirby is

vore platforming

>>381858983
No, your question was irrelevant to the conversation you were having at the time. You were talking about Kirby being AAA or not beforehand.

>>381859101
Well, then why kirby vore art doesn't exists? You would think japan is all over it but nope.

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>>381858027
>Haltmann never recognized his grown up daughter

Do you think he ever had weird thoughts about Susie?

>>381859275
we see enough vore in the games
you literally inhale people

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>>381859023
>22 years later, and we're still not sure what Dark Matter is
Is this the greatest Kirby mystery of all?

>>381855772
I think he removed the blue from the eyes.

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>>381859317
who didn't

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>>381859236

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>>381859428
So did Susie recognize her dad? I'm not sure that was ever cleared up. The closest thing to it was her calling him "the old man".

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>>381859724
Star Dream's only interaction with Susie was chucking her into Another Dimension. She probably recognizes her dad

>>381859724
It's pretty obvious she did but no longer gives a fuck because she's a greedy cunt

>>381846314
>lol i really troled them good today xDDD

>>381827371
not really
they sell well enough
people complain about the New Super Mario Bro series but it still sells
maybe we need a Kirby maker

>>381855853

Dr. Kirby's concocting your daily dose.

>>381859724
Pretty sure the Miiverse Director post cleared up that Haltmann lost his reason, motivation, and memory because of the constant use of the control helmet. Susie did know Haltmann's as her father, but when she discovers that he did not care and seem to forgotten about her disappearance, she felt hatred toward the machine, her dad, and the company.

>>381859621
So, I'm right. Thanks. He said they're not AAA games, not bad games.

>>381827371
>I see Kirbyfags all the time talking about have they have no bad games

Who says this though?

IMO I think Triple Deluxe was trash, but Robobot is my favorite 3DS game

>>381861234
I was asking which kirby game was the last good one in his opinion.
Yes it was irrelevant.
I'm still expecting an answer either way.

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>>381861271
>I think Triple Deluxe was trash

I really liked it

>>381858120
I want to hug the fluffy pink pikeman.

>>381859317
>>381859428
I'm geetting some "GARONS OF INCREASING DISCOMFORT" Flashbacks

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>>381861437
One man's trash, is another man's treasure. Not dissing your taste or anything, I like Triple Deluxe as well, but I can't find myself to enjoy Return to Dreamland.

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>>381859918
>>381859930
>>381860867
Alright, sounds good. Makes those thoughts about Haltmann coming onto her pretty damn wrong.

>>381838570
>And how would we give Wheelie a hat, to set the helper apart?
Are you an idiot? They already solved this in fucking Kirby Super Star which debuted the Wheelie Rider design. Helper Wheelies have the motorcycle design, enemy Wheelies are just plain tires.

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>>381861836
>Taranza has never been shown not smiling
>this also applies to Dark Taranza
What's up with that?

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>went and replayed Super Star Ultra a few days ago
>tfw can't beat my True Arena time from when I was 12
Either I got really good RNG, or i'm getting worse at video games.

>>381862329
not him
but one compromise could be using the design on wheel's cap as a decal on wheelie bike's front fender

though how kirby could carry helpers in wheel form is still something to put some thought into

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>>381862403
He smiles to hide the pain of losing his Waifu

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>>381862491
That's really not necessary when there's that big of a design difference between the helper and the enemy already.

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>>381862518
But what if there's a Shadow Sectonia
>inb4 he messes with evil mirrors again

>>381862619
true
but if somehow they just wanna be lazy by reusing assets from the previous kumazaki-engine games
theres always the option

and again the "helpers with hats" thing seems to be pretty encompassing, given what we've seen so far
so if they decide to push it for wheelie, there's that

buy hey its just a suggestion

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>>381862414
I feel the same way too. I just put in so much time memorizing patterns and shit when I was younger. Now that time has passed ever since I touched the game, I've forgotten how I end up getting that time at all.

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>>381862414
Maybe your just too used to the rtdl engines physics compared to the sprites.