Where did he go wrong?

Hatching the most convoluted and nonsensical vengeance plan. The result is pretty much backfired straight on his ass.

>>381733228
/thread

>>381732753
He didnt not believe in the power of friendship and cooperation

>have fool arcana
>had a massive headstart when it came to leveling and grinding
>doesn't do social links and get more than 2 personas
>lose to Joker and gang

>>381733228
>>381733346
Both of these.

His vengeance plan was fucking retarded and his dad saw through it basically immediately, and he didn't do a single social link.

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>>381733509
>Fool Arcana

He's a non-Fool Arcana Wild Card though.
Loki is put in the Justice Arcana according to the PS3 data mining.

>>381733685
How does he have 2 personas then? And that autistic ability to berserk things

>>381733685
>Loki is put in the Justice Arcana according to the PS3 data mining.
So are most of the Personas that Joker uses.

Akechi is a persona protag whos too autistic to actually form social links

>>381733839
He's a Wild Card but not of the Fool Arcana, meaning he's still Justice Arcana. This is probably the first time that non-Fool Persona User able to hold more than one Persona since Persona 1 & 2

>>381733897
Wait what? Since when Joker used Loki if where not for data hacking?

Is there a single Persona character with more wasted potential than him?

I kept thinking that he'd come back to help fight Shido, or Jaldabaoth, or anything because I just couldnt bring myself to believe that they'd create a rival wild card user playing against you with the world at stake then kill him off as a midboss who gets mentioned like 2 times afterwards

>>381734452

Eh he'll be back in 5 Arena with a redemption arc.

>>381734452
I honestly don't think he's dead

He probably escaped and just fucked off when he realized his plan was a failure

>>381734195
I meant that most of the usable Personas in the game aren't of the Fool Arcana. If I had to guess, his Justice social link was probably Shido.

>>381734753

Then where was he when Yabbadabbadoo made everything go Evangelion in the climax?

Could Akechi visit the Velvet Room?

he just wasted too much effort and time on his revenge plot on Shido, and for some reason took great personal insult that you wanted to do almost exactly what he wanted to do.

it seems he's an incredibly repressed person who's many failings in life and the many slights against him just build up inside.

also he thinks your all idiots and can't get past the fact your group are not, infact idiots, well, as big of idiots.

>>381734753
He should have been the last person the protag frees from the velvet room desu

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>>381734452
I think the whole "daddy issues" ruined him. Instead of making him a childish psycho, he should've just been an actual Ace detective with a true sense of justice that wants to catch the PT (instead of wanting to kill them).

>>381735260
would have been more interesting, instead they had to make him super crazy and somewhat evil.

even Adachi was less evil.

>>381732753
I haven't seen a promising villain character fizzle out like that since Danganronpa 2, what a waste.

>>381734452
Don't worry. You'll be able to save him in the remaster.

>>381735260
Personally, how I would have handled it...the whole daddy issues thing is still there, but he's not crazy and evil as opposed to calm and calculating. In fact, he knew about the Cognitive Joker switcharoo and let it happen so he didn't have to kill Joker, who he genuinely liked. Instead of 'haha I'm crazy and evil and hate you because friendship,' the confrontation with him in Shido's Palace is more about how he wanted the Phantom Thieves to get out of the whole thing for their own good and how he's done too much evil to just stop now. He fully intends to turn himself in to the police after he finishes with his revenge on Shido by changing his heart to crush him beneath his own guilt, and thinks that the PT's attempts to convince him to stop are pointless.

>>381732753
Thinking he could hurt his father with a ruse when he doesn't trust anyone anyway.

Everyone distrusted him more than he distrusted them.

Akechi should have been a good guy.
Makoto should have been the one to betray you to the cops.
Morgana should have been the one in the black mask. That was his secret human form that he became while you were sleeping. He wouldn't be aware of this though.

>>381733228
fpbp

He could have easily just killed Shido's Shadow and gotten his revenge that way

>>381735380
Adachi was just a jackass who got drunk on power while having zero understanding of how said-power worked.

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>not just turning his father into a vegetable and then using his powers to pick up a harem of girls and boys like Joker
why indeed.

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>Beat Persona 3, 4, and 5 on hard with very little difficulty
>Start Persona Q, P3 route
>Full party wiping to standard enemies on floor 3 of the first labyrinth on normal
what the fuck

>>381736630
Welcome to Etrian Odyssey.

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>>381736812
I always wanted to get into those games as well as Persona Q, but if this is what it's gonna be like then i think I'm gonna pass.

>>381736630
You're shit at games anon. PQ is an easy drpg even on risky.

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>>381736138
That's seems better than what the game did, but I'd rather he just not be evil at all. His mother's death and loneliness should drive him to be a real detective. Since no one was there for him, he wants to be there for others. While Akechi and the PT use different methods, their common goal is justice.

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>>381732753
killing haru's dad.

basically guaranteed he was gonna die and not get redeemed and rejoin the party for the end of the game

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>>381737209
>implying Haru's dad is innocent.

>>381737209
True, but what makes his redemption extremely difficult is the fact that he ''killed'' Joker with no remorse.

>>381735754
But I won't. Fuck Akechi.

Instead of joining Joker in order to work together to take down Shido, which they both wanted in some way, he activity went out of his way to side with Shido and impede Jokers attempts.
It was the first thing I thought, if this guy hates Shido so much then why the fuck is he now fighting me?

>>381737489
>no remorse
the trigger for the 9th Confidant rank litterally says that Joker can sense that Akechi genuinely regrets how things ended up playing out.

>>381737137
Yeah, I think that would have been better too. His fishiness would have been hilarious if it was just a total red herring - the pancakes thing is still there, but it's because he felt it would have been embarrassing to admit that his 'brilliant deductions' were all from abusing the Metaverse to question peoples Shadows rather than his own talents.

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Reminder that his psychopathy is possibly resulted from mind-controlling entity or possession. The broodsacs on Loki's eyes might be the clue for this theory.

Bottom-left comment translation for pic related on Loki's design :
>Loki's true form is unknown. I gave him a design in which you can’t tell if more of the pattern is white or black, and I had thought of and considered giving him this feeling of not being able to tell which side he was on. The design motif is the "dazzle camouflage" that was used on WWI warships. The camouflage was meant to make the size and shape of the warship difficult to discern. In addition to that, the horns that protrude from the eyes I based off a snail parasite, and it emphasizes the unpleasantness of this feeling of not knowing where the individual's true self is (like where the parasite ends and the host begins, I presume). I thought it might interesting if people could get this feeling of "who is the real you?", as Akechi might say.

>>381737840
that makes him even worse

>>381737840
>After being defeated, Akechi falls on his knees
>PTs almost talk him into redemption
>Just as he's about to accept the hand of friendship, Loki stabs him through the back and starts talking about how disappointing Akechi turned out to be

>>381737335
definitely, but it would be beyond retarded for haru to forgive him for that and engage in light hearted banter with him in the cafe scenes and shit afterwards

>>381737489
i think that's easy enough to gloss over since joker made it out ok and therefore there weren't any real consequences.

>>381737647
If he truly regrets how things ended up, he wouldn't of traded out/assassinate Joker. He still had a chance not to go through with it and he did anyway. That's how feel about it anyway.

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>>381737840
>Loki gets a cool as fuck redesign
>it's non-playable and not even on your side
At least with Adachi's persona it was just a recolour, but Loki has always been one of my favorites. Fuck this monkey's paw bullshit.

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>>381732753
Not making Shido go crazy the moment he met him rather than his "perfect moment" bullshit.

Also the fact he could've just done what he did with Okumura by waiting in the sidelines for Joker and friends to clean him up, then do whatever he wanted after they ran off after figuring out he got bamboozled. 'Course, being CUHRAAZY also means being a mega-retard until you get the stupid smacked out of you.

>>381735260
It really would've been. Or really, anything other than him being an "evil villain" would've been better.

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>Base your entire identity on being this great detective that's treated as a celebrity
>Is actually goddamn fucking retarded and gets found out by fucking pancakes
>On top of that, act like an angsty faggot
Retard got what was coming to him.

>>381737840
>Persona spinoff it's about him try to struggle free from Loki's control/possession

>>381738215
Puppet Master Loki would have been a much better asspull god than Yaldaboth.

>>381738429
>being this great detective that's treated as a celebrity
Here's the thing though, all the cases he was solving? He didn't actually solve any of them. He had the shadows of his targets tell him shit and then took the knowledge to the real world.

>>381738429
>Base your entire identity on being this great detective that's treated as a celebrity
His Akechi Kogoro is fake though, where the reality he's Akechi Mitsuhide.

>How can I get back at my dad for bailing on me and my mom?
>I know, I'll help him ruin even more people's lives!

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>>381737614
This desu. Two powerful persona users and they couldn't permanently team up.

>>381736539
he's 100% right though

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>>381737537
But you will.
And you'll like it. :^)

>>381738521
It's so stupid Atlus will use it in spinoffs desu

>>381737840
>A SNAIL DID THIS
We Zero Time Dilemma now

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>>381740068
Akechi should've just killed him and moved on. Better than being known as the crooked politician's bastard son for the rest of his life.

How am I supposed to defeat Akechi when I have to fight what are essentially two boss battles before he shows his true form?

I squeaked through the Cleaner and had just enough for the first round of Akechi, and by the time he went berserk the game went "LOL YOU'RE OUT OF SP" and I was more or less fucked.

>>381741535
Get some curry or grind some despaired Reapers

>>381741535

Buy some SP Recovery accessories from Tae.

>>381741746
Who the fuck ever even made curry?

>>381733509

So did Yaldy just give him Loki?

>>381741957

I've got an SP amulet on Joker and I still had <100 SP on him by the time Round Two started.

>>381732753
Him being a incompetent villain instead of a competent antagonist. He should have been an actual detective using the metaverse to find evidence to arrest people while being apposed to the Phantom Thieves changing hearts.

>>381733685
>Loki is put in the Justice Arcana according to the PS3 data mining.

I'm against using shit like that as arguments about canon, sounds like the devs just didn't put much thought into programming it since it wasn't meant to be seen.

>>381741535
Luckily I had a soma to refill everyone's SP. Otherwise you're fucked.

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>>381742020
Ah wait, shit, you're right. It's an out of combat item. Forgot.

Well that's a really fucking retarded reward for a late as fuck Confidant perk.

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>Akechi was an irredeemable piece of shit.
>They'll still probably find some bullshit way to bring him back for spinoffs for those sweet fujobux.

>>381743014
Suits for me. I rather retcon his entire character into something better than we've got right now.

>>381737840
>>381738518
So his circumstances is like Jun Kurosu form Persona 2?

>>381740606
>We Zero Time Dilemma now
Even Akechi's MOTIVE IS COMPLEX. Moreover he succumbs to THE POWER OF MINDHACC trough Loki.

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Wait wait wait

Loki can't be obtainable? what the fuck

anyone else here HOPING they'll change him up in the rereleases? like, fuck, i really enjoyed his character prior to the betrayal, aside from the OBVIOUS sketchy factor, and i liked his phantom design/persona.
i really wish they hadn't made him the traitor. loved using him in sae's palace.

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>>381746359
I just hope he will get an new costume too.

>>381732753
If he was the Yal's favorite child how the fuck did he even lose?

>>381747873
He's not. There's no favorite child, he's just rigged the game so he can win.

>>381747563
i liked the crow outfit.
>>381747873
he wasn't. nobody was. >>381747990

>>381732753
Pancakes

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>>381746359
>tfw still disappointed of his outcome
I wish he wasn't a traitor to begin with.

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>>381748072
But the helmet is not matching to his BDSM Clown pajamas. I rather he went full berserker black armor like Guts

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>best outfits in the game, both his Red Masked and True forms being baller
> best persona and, if you count Loki, a second tier persona that doesn't suck ass
>best weapon set in the game
>moveset like Naoto's but since Light and Dark non-insta kill spells now it's significantly more reliable
Akechi was my favorite party member even though he was the traitor, and I'm sad as fuck you only get him for such a small amount of time. The eventual rerelease will probably redeem despite him being pretty irredeemable as a character, seeing as he's a mass murderer.

>>381748534
a lot of people have outcomes they'd prefer for him. personally, i wish he was just a lawfag that joined the thieves after realizing they were just. had he not been so obviously THE TRAITOR the entire game, he'd probably be my favorite lawfag in SMT.
>>381748813
i guess. i really liked the princely crow outfit, just a personal preference. hopefully one of us gets what we want if he shows up again.

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>Hifumi will never be the strategist party member instead of Blandkoto
>You will never explore palaces with a hime cut QT who shouts special move names and treats every battle like a shogi match
>You will never have a confidant path about her learning that she never was a genius because of her manufactured fame, then assure her that what she does in the palaces is genuinely helpful.

>>381748942
yeah, pretty much. regardless of what happens, i hope we get to use him more in the future. he was my favorite party member too. i'm a slut for light/dark/almighty and the non-insta kill moves were fantastic.

>>381748942
Yeah it even sucks that he's never mentioned again. Although, there is a news report that a mangled body was found. Whether or not if it was Akechi is unclear.

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>>381749031
So much of the intial concept stuff for this game sounds so much better than what we actually got
>Living in the same apartment complex as Sae with her as your parole officer/guardian
>Hifumi as a party member
>MC's beginning Persona being Mephistopheles, with Confidants being Joker stealing the souls of confidants and binding them to his own, with Mephistopheles becoming Satanael
As much as I'm a sucker for games involving theives, I feel like the theif theme ended up hurting the final game by destroying a lot of the interesting original concepts.

>>381749031
>>381749553
So wait. Hifumi really was going to be a party member? Talk about feeling ripped off.

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>>381748813
Seeing this makes me think that his current costume is stuck between Prince set and unknown armor set. The belts might be the one who hold off his full transformation to full armor. Hints of his armor set could be seen trough his crow talon-like shoes and his armored armored glove.

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>>381749764
Yeah, and it's pretty obvious that she was going to have Makoto's spot too.
>Hifumi talks often about how one must possesses a queen's grace to play shogi during her confidant
>Makoto just fucking bullshits the codename Queen out of nowhere with it never having anything to do with her character or her outfit
I'm intrested to see as to what Hifumi's Phantom Thieves outfit was going to be like.

>>381749553
I think the thief stuff was just fine. I liked that the tone went back to darker places. I doubt I would've been able to stand another Persona 4.

restored party member Akechi with additional Hifumi party member when
but what elements would hifumi have

>>381750047
Adding Hifumi would mean removing Makoto, and reddit waifufags made her /theirgirl/ so Atlus will never change that.

>>381750047
There's still four elements left in Persona series : Earth (Magna), Water (Aqua), Gravity (Gry), and Blast (Zan)

>>381750203
unfortunate
>>381750226
this is true, but would they be willing to add new elements just for an additional party member

>>381750047
Gun
I don't see the point of making those skills if there only ended like 3 damage dealing ones. And updated release would probably add more, so just give em to Hifumi.

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>>381749987
What the hell was Atlus? Hifumi would've made more sense as Queen then. Her outfit would probably be regal-like.

>>381750315
Meant to say what was Atlus thinking.

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>>381750315
As a Hifumifag I'm frankly disapointed with Makoto practically ending up running the show, seeing as she's the worst girl in a game with for once a sizeable handful of really good girls to chose from.

>Loki isn't obtainable
>isn't even a DLC persona
This is the biggest sin. Fuck Atlus.

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>Gorofriends and Hifumifriends in a thread together, at the same time
What a rare occurrence.

>>381747563
WHOOP WHOOP

>>381750459
I had Joker romance Ann 1st playthrough and Hifumi on my 2nd. Hifumi wasn't as boring as people said. She's just a shogi enthusiast. She was a very sweet girl as well.

>>381750665
Akechi is literally /ourboy/

Hifumi is the patrician waifu.

>>381750775
>as boring as people said
can you show me those people so I can rip their eyes out

>>381741535
You know this meme about keeping precious items in jrpg, that you never use in the end?
This is moment to use them.
You dont have any soma? One was free with the PSN pack
There were two in the casino, and you can get one by some mishima request

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>>381750665
When it doesn't revolve around waifu wars and Persona vs SMT autism, all is right in the world.

>>381750841
I agree. Especially if they work out Akechi's kinks in the future.
It's just not a popular opinion, on either side, from what I've seen.

How could Akechi possibly be redeemed given that he's basically a terrorist.
He caused a subway derailment after all.

>>381751110
easily, just not realistically. anime in general has a tendency to redeem batshit insane people, like vegeta or sasuke. (maybe not the best examples, but i'm not a huge anime guy)
the question is, can atlus do it in a believable way? and unless they're willing to rewrite a lot of shit (they aren't) then i don't think so.

>>381751084
Do they fucking expect him to eat all those pancakes

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>>381751735
i really dont think he can do it but it is a nice gesture

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>>381751735
Don't forget a lobster as well and yes, they expect him to.

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What about Mishima as a party member?

>>381751920
Mishima should've literally replaced Haru. Since he was there in the beginning. Haru would be just a confidant.

>>381752054
Eh, I dunno about that. Mishima wasn't exactly party member material.
Granted, Haru wasn't either. But still.

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>>381752054
I'm still pissed that Haru is completely isolated for so fucking long. That being said, Mishima shouldn't have been a party member. Plays the role of buttmonkey that wishes he had power well enough. Not as good as Zeke, but what can you do?

>>381751227
They'll go the Adachi route by making him just come to terms with who he is, realize the protagonists are right, then help them without losing his core beliefs that made him evil in the first place.

Tying party members to Palaces was a mistake.
Should have got them all by Kaneshiro.

>>381753005
Your mom was a mistake

>>381752054
Haru should've extended her involvement with the PT in the Spinoff or DLC extension.

>>381752980
they need to make him more sympathetic since they're pushing that so much without anything to back it up besides the "muh daddy" stuff. after that, so long as he becomes a party member in some way, shape, or form, it doesn't matter much to me how they handle him. my expectations are low, they can only surprise me now. a nice balance between his pre-traitor personality and his post-traitor personality would be nice. absolutely ruined if it's just "i need to atone...." the entire time.

All I could think of when Makoto entered the game was how much she was a much worse version of Yukiko, but her party utility was too good to bench her.

It's the worst feeling.

>>381752054
I wish Mishima could've been playable but he accepted his role as a punching bag, effectively neutering his sense of rebellion. If he just took a little more charge during Kamoshida's arc and stood up to him he could've been something greater. He's got plenty to be pissed off about just like the rest of the PT.

>>381753559
makoto is bargain bin mitsuru
but she's the best party member for healing/offense

>>381752605
>>381752908
>>381753105
Point taken. Still Haru came way too late. They could've ended Futaba's story early and moved on. Instead, nearly a whole month was wasted.

>>381753713
Considering Futaba came in at the end of a dungeon, unlike the other party members, they could've made it a double.

Mishima should have developed a palace instead of it getting solved with a quick trip to mementos.
The shadow version of him could have been him seeing himself as a phantom thief.

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>>381751920
>>381752054
>>381752605
>>381752908
>>381753667
>>381753898
Mishima should've been the traitor and the Black Mask.

>>381732753
0 social links.

>>381753692
You meant healing/buffs

Ryuji is the best offense.

>>381754124
oh, fuck, yeah, that's actually what i meant
my original post was meant to say she was best healing/offense hybrid i guess
i thought morgana really fell off, especially in defense.

>>381751920
Mishima should have replaced Futaba

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>>381753975
I wouldn't have mind that actually

>>381753975
anyone would've been better than akechi. too obvious. so obvious that i had myself convinced it WOULDN'T be him, until he blackmailed the party, and i just had to accept that he was the traitor.

>>381754331
Futaba should have been a character from the start and essentially function as Nanako did.

I really liked her, she looks like my sister.

>>381754331
I could actually see that. But for the past two games the Nav has been a cute girl and there's no way in heaven, he'll or earth Atlus would ever do that.

>>381754412
Akechi obviously being the traitor is a plot point though. The real twist was the Phantom Thieves knowing it all along.

>>381732753
He thought pancakes were better than waffles.

>>381754438
*Hell

>>381754217
What? You don't like wet cardboard characters who freeze the game and spend fifteen seconds to bow out?

>>381732753
Pancakes

>>381754484
I know that, but the amount of twists would be memorable if the traitor was something we don't expect while keep the PT pulling the same ruse

>>381754484
yeaaaahhhhh, and i really respect them for actually making the protagonists aware, but it still felt kinda shitty that it was SO obvious.
maybe i'm biased since i was really hoping akechi wouldn't be the traitor since i liked him so much.

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>>381754494
Waffles are better desu.

>>381753975
Yusuke should have been the black mask. That's why black mask was in Madarame's palace.

>>381751920
I thought they were setting him up to be a party member initially. Fine with the role he got though since I don't really like him at all.

>>381748813
W-where did you get this?

>>381754830
What about Shido as Black mask?

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>>381754815
> Buy SMT4 costumes
> Look at everyone's scarfs
> Akechi's is black

>>381748813
I never noticed how many fucking belts he had. I didn't want this.

>>381755001
I suppose it'd fit with him stealing Wakaba's research, though he doesn't seem like the sort of guy to personally get he's hands dirty carrying out mental shutdowns.

>>381748813
Should've kept the vest desu.

>>381755071
Making it more obvious that he's no good.

>Persona 5: Crimson or whatever
>Akechi gets his own palace
>You change him and he feels remorse for his actions
>Joins the party for the endgame and hands himself into the police at the end so he still doesn't get away with being a psychopath

>>381755304
Persona users can't have palaces though

>>381755304
I vaguely recall there being some dialogue where it's said that having a Persona stops you from having a palace because it's you on the outside or something.

>>381755395
>>381755426
Shit you're right.

Black mask should have been an artificial persona created by the government using Wakaba's research that eventually went rogue

>>381755304
Not going to lie, I really thought Akechi and the SIU director were going to have palaces.

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>>381755304
> You get to smash your waifu on Christmas
> No need to turn yourself in because Akechi takes the fall
> leave him in solitary confinement

This is the only reason I wish Akechi didn't die/disappear.

>>381755304
>Persona 5: Crimson
Slightly off-topic, but a friend of mine suggested it should be "Persona 5: STAR" standing for the Star Festival/Tanabata, to match FES and Golden being based on holiday events/festivals. Not to mention it would work with P5's star motif.

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>>381755484
That seems more likely, but I like Crimson much more.

>>381741535
Make a One Shot Kill build with Cripple, Snipe and Apt Pupil. You should be able to make Seth by this point, so no excuses.

>>381755582
Persona 5: Christmas
Alt ending where Joker doesn't turn himself into the cops

>>381755524
This sounds infinitely more interesting than Akechi's idiocy. It could've also made him a red herring.

>>381755304
they're either going to retcon a bunch of the shit akechi did or forgive him even though his shit was inexcusable
i don't know how i'd feel about the latter since i do want him to come back as a party member but he just can't be let off
i'd love for him to be a phantom thief full on, but it feels like his grave is dug too deep after all the homicidal maniac shit

Am I the only person who liked Rivers in a Desert more as an instrumental than a lyrical song? It sounds much more ominous with no lyrics.

>>381732753
Do japs really go school 6 days a week?
I'm so glad i wadn't born there, that combined with the country's obsession with becoming a overworked salarymen sounds like hell

>>381741535
Equip Arahabaki/Grimeklha
Make Haru spam Makarakarn on you
Win

>>381755582
>>381755604
>>381755683

Definitely not Crimson though, but the choice is between P5U, P5AG, P5D, and P5R as seen in here :
http://personacentral.com/potential-persona-5-spin-off-website-domains-registered-including-p5d-p5u/

>>381755710
They did years ago, they don't anymore. I guess it's just easier to make events and plot progression around 6 school days than 5.

>>381755698
Didn't they redeem Adachi too?
They don't need to change anything.>>381755704

>>381755698
>they're either going to retcon a bunch of the shit akechi did
This is one of the possibilities that Atlus gonna do. They gonna undone his murder trough some time-loop or something

>>381732753
probably the whole murderer thing he had going on

>>381755698
They can keep all of his despicable actions as long as he gets some kind of bad/sour ending.

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>>381755725
Q53: Please select all that applies for proposed Persona series titles below.

The games are the following:

1. “Persona 2: Innocent Sin / Eternal Punishment” HD console remake
2. Completely new “Persona 6”
3. “Persona 5” dance game (sound action)
4. New Persona fighting game for “Persona 5” [Kazuhisa Wada previously stated that he would definitely want to make a Persona 5 fighting game]
5. “Persona 3” HD console remake
6. “Persona 1” HD console remake
7. “Persona” series board game
8. “Persona” series online game
9. “Persona” series shooting game
10. “Persona 5” with added scenarios and new elements
11. Continuation of “Persona Q” and remake to other platforms
12. “Persona 3” dance game (sound action) [Kazuhisa Wada previously stated that they would consider a Persona 3 dancing game if Persona 4: Dancing All Night did well]

I do not like what i'm reading.

>>381749031
>Hifumi being a party member
She was too much of a Yukiko 2.0 even down to the traditional Japanese motifs and the long hair (except more gloomy/autistic). I'm actually okay with her as a social link/confidant instead.

>>381755698
To add on to your point
> People will forgive your horrendous immoral acts against humanity if you're good looking and able to be sypathized with.

The human race is going to be wiped out one day because of this shit.

>>381732753
Pancakes

>>381755827
adachi wasn't really redeemed. he just came to terms with the shitty person he was and he and yu came to understand eachother more.
you can't fully redeem someone like adachi, or in this case, akechi, since they murdered without remorse. akechi even moreso than adachi.
>>381755968
i guess so, but it doesn't work with what i'd personally like, which would be him becoming a phantom thief/friend in the group. my view and stance is different than most though, i really liked having him around, and hated that i knew he was gonna be the one.

>>381755710
>School life in general
>Employees being worked to death
>Women constantly being sexually harrassed and exploited
>Rampant crime
>Cops drugging and beating up suspects
>99.9% prosecution rate
How much of it was accurate and how much was it the game just playing things up?
Seemed like a complete dystopia to me.

>>381755071
>SMT if... DLC, he's dressed like the bad guy
>Persona 2 DLC, he's dressed like Jun, who spends a fair share of the game as the joker
>Raidou Kuzunoha DLC, he's dressed as the army bad guy

I hate how atlus ruined every DLC just to lampshade that akechi is the traitor.

>people saying Atlus will change up shit to redeem Akechi
They don't have to, at all. The game already did it by having everything pinned on Shido being the biggest baddest evil around ("how dare he make a highschooler do those things!" or something). All they need to do is give him more substantial screentime instead of the blatant non-interactions he had in the game.

>>381756053
> People will forgive your horrendous immoral acts against humanity if you're good looking and able to be sypathized with.

Isn't this the same as Shidou though? After his confession, people still gonna choose him as Prime Minister even he had done so many crimes.

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>>381755698
He can become a full-fledged PT until Yaldabaoth is defeated. After that, he turns himself in and exposes everyone else who was involved with Shido.

>>381756073
>99.9% prosecution rate
I thought this was complete bullshit, but it turns out that it's true.
>>381756221
That was Jaldabaldy influencing everyone.

>>381756073
It's a bit of flanderization but those are all still problems in Japan

>>381756214
obviously that easily sets him up to be let off without punishment, but that does not redeem him at all.
though, i do agree he might be more redeemable if he had more meaningful interactions with the phantom thieves (not just joker), and had he maybe showed a bit of hesitation before blowing joker's brains all over the walls, or so he thought.

>>381756221
I feel like the general consensus is that because he knows what to do as a Prime Minister people will accept him as their leader over someone who means well but doesn't know how to lead. Evil plants it's roots in society far and wide to the point that you have to accept it.

>>381756284
>That was Jaldabaldy influencing everyone.
The game constantly hammers the point that while Yaldy rigged the game from the start, he still wouldn't have rose to power if the masses weren't such complacent idiots.

>>381756073
The 99.9% prosecution rate and overworking are very real, i dunno about the rest.

>>381756000
I wouldn't mind 1, 2, 6 and 10

>>381756383
Yes, but everyone completely ignoring Shido's confession as if it never happened was Yaldaboth.

What if Akechi killed whichever teammate you had the lowest rank with. If they're all equally low then he kills the one who has been with you the longest with the lowest link.

>implying forcibly changing someones nature and emotions is ever justifiable
Lock the Phantom Thieves up.

>>381756043
>Ignoring her chuuni battle cries

Ask me how I know you haven't maxed her SL.

>>381756551
No, that will make him more completely irredeemable trough the player eyes since you off their S. link benefits.

>>381756373
>but that does not redeem him at all.
His entire story has all the ingredients needed to redeem him already, it was just a matter of actually making good use of them. Even if he did fucked up things he still had enough leeway to have a redemption arc. It's not as if it's impossible to write a morally-bankrupt villain in-universe while still granting them a redemption arc for the audience's sake.

It's why everyone treats Akechi's character as a wasted potential, because all the potential was there to make him more of an actual fleshed out character instead of the novelty character he turned out to be.

>>381756073
I don't know about the drugs but they do mistreat their prisoners by not feeding them and refusing to let them sleep until they confess.

>>381756551
>Have him kill someone you likely don't care about

No, he'd have to kill the one with the highest SL, which is usually Ryuji.

>>381756073
Prosecution rates can be fucked with pretty easily by just dropping charges you don't want to prosecute instead of losing, but Japan is a shithole 3rd world tier nightmare in a lot of ways. The US is usually behind in terms of treatment of workers and rights, but japan makes the US look like a fucking paradise.

literally the ONLY way they can fully "redeem" akechi is by retconning some of the shit he did. or, if they're really lazy, just say yaldabaoth was controlling him or something. keeping him as he is now, assuming he's alive, can only end with him getting locked up for the rest of his life or being shunned by the thieves if he's let off thanks to shido.

>>381756595
Isn't jail's objective to rehabilitate prisoners?
Stealing hearts does the same,and has a 100% success rate, most criminals go back to crime after getting out of jail anyway.

>>381756551
I like Akechi, but if he killed one of the team, he'll really be irredeemable. I'll want to kill him at that point.

I don't think they'd even make him a permanent party member in any rerelease, he'll definitely get more focus though. He will probably play a large role in the fighting game sequel too. Pretty much what they did with Adachi.

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>>381756903
yep, same here. that'd be the point of no return.
>>381757043
you're probably right. though i'll still hold out hope for permanent party member Akechi.

>>381756551
I thought ranks were actually going to matter to the story.
Like if you weren't maxed out with a party member at the end when you're all locked up in the velvet room they wouldn't join you to fight god.

>>381756551
He could've just killed Ryuji, Ann, or Yusuke and had there be one canon death. That charCters SL would be the automatic one every game had so it's maxed out and you miss nothing.

Ryuji, Ann, and Yusuke are all pretty much ignored completely after you get Futaba. Makoto still has a part in the story what with her sister being the prosecutor but the first 3 are just there to expand your party options. Killing one of them would've made them all seem less dead weight.

>>381756864
Yes

>>381757165
I tought the same thing, they should make s links more relevant and add some interplay between then too, s links are way too isolated from one another.

>>381757293
Makoto's role in the story is to make obvious observations and be called smart for them by everyone.

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>>381756619
That's exactly the reason though. The chuuni battle cries were cute for her s. link interactions, but I know I wouldn't be able to stand them in an actual battle scenario (I know some would like that but I don't).

Besides that, her overall motif and appearance being blatant pass downs from Yukiko doesn't help either, not to mention replacing Makoto on the Priestess Arcana would make the similarities even worse since Yukiko had the same Arcana.

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>>381757135
>Dat AoA
>One of the reasons he stayed in my party
Damn you Atlus

>>381757483
>tfw atlus is incapable of redeeming him in a satisfying way that both brings him back into the phantom thieves and also keeps him there
god dammit atlus, he was my favorite

>>381757419
She wouldn't be as bad as beep boop mary sue girl.

>>381757418
Don't be like that. She also serves the roll of killjoy.

>>381757419
I wonder if Yukiko was part of the reason they opted out of making Hifumi a party member? People are overdoing the whole "Makoto replaced Hifumi" thing, she doesn't even have a smidgen of concept art for a mask or persona.

I actually didn't do the Twin Wardens fight until I got Akechi. Had him spam Debilitate like a motherfucker so I didn't have to.

>>381757418
>to make obvious observations and be called smart for them by everyone.
Why do people keep memeing this? Beyond her initial introduction in Kaneshiro's palace, barely anyone ever comments on how "smart" Makoto's observations are. She just mouths off on her own the same way everyone else throws in their piece without anyone praising her for it.

>>381757418
That's better than literally nothing. Yosuke contributes nothing but painting a calling card once after Madarame is taken out. He's just fucking there. Ryuji has the scene on the boat where he almost dies and is noted as the muscle but yosuke and Ann do nothing.

>>381757660
i don't want to start a war or anything, but i really don't get yusuke's appeal. i guess he's just not a character for me? he seemed kinda like the random XD character to me.

>>381757580
It was because the game was getting too long. Elements of Hifumi may be present in Makoto but it wasn't a straight up replacement, originally both would have been members.

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>>381757631
Shut up, you're ruining everything by placing actual facts instead of my insult memes.

>>381757660
Ann was my magic powerhouse and is explicitly meant to be the charmer in-game and in the story.

Yosuke is useless though I agree.

>>381757697
>random XD character
That's Futaba

>>381757801
Futaba isn't randumb, she's just a mega-sperg.

>>381757697
How is Yusuke random?
He's the assburguers of the group, Futaba is the randumb.

>>381757904
>Yusuke is explicitly referred to as eccentric
>Says random dumb shit for no reason and everyone is confused by it constantly
>Tries to jump out of the car at the end of the game

He's literally randumb. Futaba is an autist that makes an effort to make sense.

>>381757801
>>381757850
>>381757904
again, i really don't want to start a war. not in this thread, it's been very peaceful. i dunno, it just seemed like he... wasn't funny? but he tried hard to be. like the lobster thing, i just didn't care at all. but a lot of people thought it was hilarious. it's probably just me though. futaba is okay. i wouldn't romance her though.
>>381757978
no wars

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>>381757580
>I wonder if Yukiko was part of the reason they opted out of making Hifumi a party member?
It wouldn't surprise me at all.

From the traditional Japanese motif, the haircut and potentially her Arcana (if she replaced Makoto). People might complain about Makoto out of preferential bias but her having the edgy apocalyptic biker look combined with lawfag tendencies at least distinguishes her away from Yukiko. I mean, one of the best gifts you can give Hifumi is a sakura fan for crying out loud.

>>381757697
I like Yusuke because even though he's a pretty boy, he doesn't act like one. Plus he's not afraid to be wacky in public at times without caring what others think. So I find his personality endearing.

>>381738215
>Nothing personnel, kid,

>>381757631
If I had a want to play through the game a third time without fast forward i'd make a list. I'll leave that to someone with a real hate-on for her.

>>381758150
i whole-heartedly respect your opinion. i'm in no position to judge as a goroboy myself. i probably should've just kept quiet, i don't want to disturb the peace here.

>>381757796
They don't really employ her charms too often and she's clearly shit at it. She couldn't even keep Yosuke on point and he's literally retarded. At least Ryuji is good at being dumb muscle. He's loud and obnoxious and on a few occasions in the story he manages to handle himself when seperated from the group like when he distracts the guards in Madarames palace.

All the starting characters pretty much stop mattering once Makoto shows up. The latter characters have more of a connection to what's happening. One of them dying would have at least made it less obvious.

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>>381758270
>She couldn't even keep Yosuke on point and he's literally retarded.

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>>381758223
It's fine to not like certain characters. I was just giving my reasoning why Yusuke's my favorite. I'm Goro fan too.

>>381758150
>Two girls come up and try and hit on him
>Calls them sluts who are desrespecting their yakutas
Based boy

>>381758270
Aside from the bait this really does highlight why Makoto is a shit character.

The only Phantom Thieves that matter are Makoto and Futaba.
None of the others contribute anything after both of them show up except as muscle when fighting shadows.

>>381758470
i'm pretty surprised to see this, considering the ((very)) short time i spent on /pg/ usually pitted goro and yusuke against eachother for best boy. i think they were both likable characters, with goro needing a bit of improvement. i liked him but i'm not afraid to admit it.

Personal I would've liked the characters to interact more without the protagonist. In harvest moon if you don't romance someone the game pairs the spares itself so their characters aren't left hanging. So if you didn't romance Ann in one game then Ryuji bones her and cucks Morganna for all eternity prompting Morganna to kill himself thereby freeing up your nights from having to sleep so fucking much.

Just imagine how great that'd be, if Ryuji cycled Morgana.

>>381758840
>who are Morgana and Ryuji

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>>381758527
Because Yusuke is pure

>>381758840
groo carried sae's palace
h-he's a phantom thief, right guys?

>>381759003
No.

>>381758840
>Ann is the only reason you beat Madarame's palace
>Helps on Shido's boat
>Has the best debuff skill and magic attack in the game

I'll take that over Makunto and her """connections""" to her sister that never amount to shit, her braindead "genius" statements, and her ability to kill all the fun in a scene with her boring voice.

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>>381759035
no bully

>>381758904
Futaba is a better navigator than Morgana ever was. That's why he leaves the team.

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>>381758862
>/pg/
There's your problem. I mean threads here are awful too at times (this one is cool), but not as bad as the ones on there.

>>381759047
Jesus, I don't even like Makoto but this is just ridiculous.

>her """connections""" to her sister that never amount to shit
Her appealing to Sae's better nature was what got Sae to even consider properly questioning Joker. Stop lying out of your ass just because you hate the character.

>>381759175
that's why i spent a ((very)) short time there. they spend a lot of time shitting on /v/, but the place is a circlejerk. they're way less civil than /v/ is, and i didn't know it was possible.

>>381734809
No, his justice S.link was Joker. We form a bond of Justice within each other.

>>381759119
>Ryuji
Dumb muscle + good at sprinting.
+ Saved everyone in Shido's palace
- Gave Akechi the identities of the thieves

>Ann
+ Charmed Yusuke which got the group through Madarame's Palace
+ Charmed that one guy on Shido's boat before going full molest mode
+ Great magic
- Doesn't do much else.

>Morgana
- Go to sleep
- Shitty defense

>Makoto
+ Has a defense buff skill and a group heal
- Literally a robot
- Sucks the fun out of every scene she's in
- Makes most of the case irrelevant when she solves all the problems.
+ Plugged a stick into a laptop.

>Futaba
+ Cute
+ Buffs can save your ass
- Autistic
+ Cute sisterfu
+ Saved your ass in the pyramid

>Yosuke
+ Makes cards for you I guess.
- No useful skills
- Even bigger autist than Futaba

>Haru
+ Cute
- ???

>>381759446
Ann's "help" in Shido's palace was nothing.
For starters it was Ryuji's plan, and secondly every single member helps out in the same way with one of the letters of introduction before getting into a boss fight.
If you're going to count that as a plus for Ann then you also have to count Makoto talking to Ooe, Haru talking to the TV exec and Yusuke drawing a tattoo.

>>381759446
>Goro
+ Effective Light and Dark skill character
+ Rad finisher and Personas
- Shitty characterization and motive

>>381759446
>- Gave Akechi the identities of the thieves
No he didn't did you even play the game.
>Anti Makoto fags this retarded

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>>381759635
>- Shitty characterization and motive
Fuck you Atlus.

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Guys you mean Yusuke. This is Yosuke.

>>381759635
>Goro
+ Effective light and dark skill character
+ Great finisher and personas
+ Great design and personality
+++ Pancake memes
- His boss fight.

>>381759746
Oh right he gave Makoto their identities.

Calm down, sperg.

>>381759793
who

>>381742345
He might've turned out more heroic than the Phantom Thieves then, since he would be doing the same thing but be more ethical with it (no brainwashing).
Which would raise the question of "why are we doing this in the first place". A question with no reasonable answer.
Changing hearts as a modus operandi only kinda works as long as it doesn't seem like there's a good alternative, I think.

>>381759390
HOW DID I NEVER NOTICE THIS?!

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>>381759851
This guy

>>381759793
No that's gaysuke

>>381760152
i dont recall

>>381756196
>Catherine DLC, he's dressed up as Boss, who is basically the TWEEST character in Catherine
Fucking hell

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>>381760446
>they retroactively edited him out of all the dlc promos

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>>381760296
It's ok anon. You'll want to replay P4G someday. He'll be waiting.

>>381759047
>Ann is the only reason you beat Madarame's palace
>Implying I didn't immediately replace her with Lobster boy

>>381751084
>everybody gives him pancakes because Akechi likes pancakes (maybe)
>Yusuke gives him lobster because Yusuke likes lobster
Never change, Yusuke. Never change.

>>381760537
who?

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>>381734195
>>381733839
>>381734809
>>381759390
>>381760118
Akechi is not a fucking wild card at all

Loki's greatest powers in mythology were his trickster abilities, he could shapeshift into tons of shit to fool people

Changing Loki's shape into Robin Hood (You'll notice that Loki also changes akechi's phantom thief gear, which Joker doesn't do just by changing persona's) is just an ability Loki has for the sake of the story

>>381760542
I meant with her getting to Yusuke and opening the door, also

>Replacing the best magic attacker + debuffer with the no utility counter autist.

>>381760650
he is a wild card. even if there was a slim chance he wasn't, now that japan loves him they will definitely cash in on him being a wild card.

>>381756726
That's not even half of it. they are able to keep someone for up to a month and they will make that month a living hell just to get a confession, the nips are all about respecting your family and shit and they will bring shit up about their family like make them stand on their name which is taboo as fuck or some shit and say that their family will disown them if they don't confess

Suddenly the pheonix wright makes more sense, where even if you prove without a modicum of doubt your guy is innocent you still have to find the actual criminal even though you are just a defence attorney.

>>381760695
>Replacing the best magic attacker + debuffer
You can't replace Joker, senpai.

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>>381759446
>Morgana
+explains how the metaverse works
+teaches you to make tools
+can turn into a car
+saves everyone in Okumura's palace

>>381760813
>Not having two god-tier magic attackers
>Not defending how shit Yusuke is in the late-game compared to Ann.

WHY DON'T YU PLAY A REAL SHEN MEGOOMY TENSAY GAME

>>381760912
>late game
>Yusuke or Ann
What are you doing?

Best endgame party is objectively Joker, Haru, Makoto, and Akechi ;_; Ryuji

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>>381761092
Or you can use whoever you want. That's what I did.

>>381761194
Not allowed, kill yourself. No fun allowed here, sir. Only objective facts.

>>381761001
>Concentrate
>Great AOE fire skill
>debuff all enemies

Ann + Ryuji + Makoto carried me through half of the game.

>>381761092
You are objectively correct, I will say I swapped Haru out for Morgana for my level 40-ish Twin Warden's kill, but that was the only time I ever needed that much healing.

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>>381761258
I'm going to have fun and there's nothing you can do, attic trash!

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>>381761542
No!!!! Not allowed!! You will play with the party I TELL you to!!

>think he'll be OP
>rekt him good
>second battle!
>still easy as shit
>no dead body
>surprise final boss?
>last boss was crap

Pancake boy was a disappointment in every way

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Shido and Akechi are literally watered down versions of Adachi. Y'know it would've been actually interesting if Akechi was somewhat intelligent and Shido was capable of manipulating his own Palace so that you get a real sense of danger from the both of them, but I felt more pissed off at the first two villains of the game(Kamoshida and Madarame), than the actual murderers and more primary Antagonists. Even Yabadabadoo felt boring as fuck as a villain, even Izanami felt more threatening than him in that regard due to the mystery that she had. The later parts of P5 were such a disappointment in terms of the plot, even the good moments felt lackluster due to how the plot began and ended some things. I honestly hope P5 Crimson/Star does something to change the plot, hell I'd even take a Marie at this point if she manages to fix the plot to a point where it flows better than it did in the original game.

>>381761703
n-not as a party member
his "boss" battle was absolute shit though

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>>381732753
He didn't think some kid would have a cat talking about pancakes and the only people who could hear it talk were people who knew of the metaverse.

>>381735097
Taking swimming lessons just outside of Tokyo

>>381760834
He's also actually a competent thief, and often offers good ideas, as I remember.
Also, I don't care how shit his defence is, he gets the best healing spells first in the game, Lucky/Miracle Punch on a party member is a godsend, and he was a constant presence in my party. It's all worth wasting an item to revive him once in a while, and his defence is still enough if you're healing regularly (which you can do with him).

>>381758868
Morgana is cool. He has his downsides, but overall he's a bro. I actually like him more than Ryuji, Ryuji's "let's run right into this guy without thinking" in the main plot is a lot more obnoxious than "let's go to sleep" which is just a fucking stupid meme and a game limitation.

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well, the thread was fun, lads. i'm off for now.

>>381760957
I'm currently playing Shin Megami Tensei 1 after finishing Persona 5. I'm not sure how much more "real SMT" I can even get.
At least playing this game explains why Rush is a thing.

>>381762397
Ryuji's a bro and the best physical attacker in the party. He has your back at every turn and just wants to do the right thing.

Morgana's a little shitter who's useless later in the game, but the kicker for me was September

>Ryuji calls Morgana useless when Futaba joins
>Morgana, the person who insults Ryuji constantly and calls HIM useless when he fucks up in fights construes this as everyone hating him and leaves.

Fuck Morgana.

>>381762536
>Ryuji's a bro and the best physical attacker in the party.
Thank you. Yusuke is cool too, but Ryuji is THE bro of this game.

Was I the only one who thought Goro was a chick?

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>>381762702
He kinda looks like Yukari in his AOA image.

>>381762669
>Yusuke
>Best physical attacker

In what world?

>>381762820
STUPID FAGGOT LITTLE COCKSUCKER

>>381763046
I never meant to imply Yusuke is the best physical attacker. I said Yusuke is cool too because, well, he is, but that doesn't make him the best physical attacker. I ran Ryuji over Yusuke the entire game, but he's still a good party member in his own right I guess.

>>381762820

My mom watched me play once, she said Goro's "actress" shouldn't quit her day job.

Guess my mom need to learn about traps.

>>381763151
Ooooh I misinterpreted that, sorry.

I like Yusuke as a character but I never found a niche for him.

>>381762536
>Ryuji's a bro
Agree.
>the best physical attacker in the party
True. I used him a lot.
>He has your back at every turn and just wants to do the right thing.
Sure, but when it's cutscene time, he suddenly turns obnoxious. If he was the same as in his SL everywhere, he would be a lot better. It's just grating how often he has to act as a retard in the game so that others can correct him.
>Morgana's a little shitter
He helps you through the entire game, teaches you about Multiverse, often is the one to tell the party to stop screwing around when it's not warranted, while still having a sense of fun (unlike Makoto), and is the best bro to MC despite being with him constantly for the entire game.
>useless later in the game
I used him more than Ryuji. His healing is fucking good, Miracle Punch is great, and even Garu, despite being a meh element, can make a fair bit of damage because of his high Magic.
>September
Agree he was retarded there, but it was a single moment in the game. It wasn't even that grating.
Now, Morgana and Ryuji constantly arguing was, but they were certainly both at fault here. Ryuji was calling Morgana useless and dismissing him just as often as Morgana did the same to him. It just went like that since their first meeting. They just aren't very compatible as people, I think. It is kinda refreshing to have some people in the party who just don't get along with each other, though.
Overall, September wasn't even a big thing. Morgana had an existential crisis and left for like half a week, after which he even said "sorry". I'm not sure why everyone hates him for that one moment, when he's a bro throughout the rest of the game.
And the whole "go to sleep" meme. It's just so retarded and a low-hanging joke to make. It's just a game mechanic, and Joker was saying the exact same thing to himself in his narration before Morgana showed up and while he left. How can you even hate a character just because he's a mouthpiece to a game limitation?

>>381763729
Akechi LITERALLY did nothing wrong!

>>381756779
So there's four way scenario for Akechi in the spinoff :
>Retcon everything what he had done, trough some outlandish time-loop or something related
>Retcon his character by having him getting possessed or mind-controlled by some evil entity
>Confess and get locked up for his crime (Preferable choice)
>Confess, but he still get off scot-free because everything is already pinned on Shidou

>>381763729
Where the hell is Madarame?

>>381763559
Buffing and debuffing is king in SMT/Persona and Morgana lacking any amazing buffs (Makoto/Ryuji) or debuffs (Ann) put him in trash-tier.

It's better to mitigate damage than heal a lot of damage.

Also the go to sleep meme is legit annoying because it's a dissonance between what my character feels and what Morgana is telling me. I have a fucking teacher who gives me energizing massages but I'm too tired to call her?

Fuck off Morgana.

>>381764092
the first two are the only way he can be "redeemed" and also be accepted into the fold later down the line.
even if he confessed and gets locked up for his crimes, he'll have already made his impression on the PT and i doubt they would accept him.
they'd be even less inclined to do so if he confessed, was acting of his own volition, and ALSO got off scot-free.

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>Gives his pupils a place to stay
>Successfully mentors several good artists
>Presents their work on a grand stage
>Takes mediocre piece and puts a spin on it that turns it into a modern mona lisa
>Raises a son that isn't his own and helps him grow as an artist

Why do we hate him again?

>>381764538
>their
I think you meant to write His there

>>381764538
Some of his actions are questionable, but he did the least wrong.

>>381763559
>the best bro to MC
Lying through your teeth. I think Ryuji is an idiot and I can still see he's the best bro. Morgana is gated by the plot while Ryuji is someone you can actually build a relationship and hang out with. In general he's almost a guaranteed main-stay on your team with his physical skills while Morgana is likely to be completely replaced when Makoto learns Mediarama. Obviously you could keep him on if you like him, but i've not seen or heard of too many people who do.
I thought I was being smart by planning to swap him in on my team for treasure demon hunting thanks to his high-crit skills, but then I started the Tower Confidant and learned Downshot was a thing.
>Ryuji was calling Morgana useless and dismissing him just as often as Morgana did the same to him.
I remember Ryuji bringing up Morgana's "cat" thing, but Morgana took every opportunity to rag on him. Morgana took to it way more. Both being at fault doesn't make it completely balanced.
>And the whole "go to sleep" meme. It's just so retarded and a low-hanging joke to make.
True.
It's just voicing frustration. Nobody does care or would care if Joker were saying he had to go to sleep. Having a detached entity telling you to do something makes you think it's not really what you'd do if they weren't. Like you're being robbed of choice. Almost surprised there's no Yaldaboth - Morgana fake theory shenanigans. It makes it easy to start hating it and no doubt is at least part of the general negativity around Morgana.

>>381764618
>le rape is worse than murder meme

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>>381764597
My mistake

Is the p5 dlc done releasing or is there still more? It feels weird to me that we'd get Messiah but no Izanagi no Okomi
>>381764538
He let Yusuke's mom die infront of him and didn't do anything, as well as make a number of his pupils a hero if I recall.

>>381764239
>Buffing and debuffing is king in SMT/Persona and Morgana lacking any amazing buffs (Makoto/Ryuji) or debuffs (Ann) put him in trash-tier.
Sure, for bosses. For mobs it's a waste of SP.
And for bosses, while I agree than an additional buff would be useful, I still feel healing is more important.
>It's better to mitigate damage than heal a lot of damage.
No. Buffing is useful, but healing is more useful, since you don't buff for mobs.
I guess Makoto does get a great buff, but considering how slow she was with her healing spells, I just never found it worth it for either mobs (who you don't want to buff for anyway) or bosses (since my Joker could do one Marakukaja once in a while, and Miracle Punch saved my ass surprisingly often).
I guess Makoto might be better for bosses, as long as it's not a point in the game where Morgana is with Mediarahan, while Makoto is just getting to Diarahan any minute now.
>go to sleep
A game mechanic. Blame bad game design. Also, your character is actually not you in this game, you shape him, but he has his own personality. And he says the exact same thing when Morgana is absent.
But maybe I just don't get it. since this meme is a lot more annoying to me than Morgana saying that ever was.
>>381764726
>Morgana is gated by the plot while Ryuji is someone you can actually build a relationship and hang out with.
I can see your point. I guess I just didn't mind his SL being plot-related.
>In general he's almost a guaranteed main-stay on your team with his physical skills while Morgana is likely to be completely replaced when Makoto learns Mediarama.
The opposite of what I did, and I still think his Miracle Punch and better healing spells (including Recarm too) more than make up for his low defence and lack of a buff.
>It's just voicing frustration.
I just don't get hating the character because of that. Everybody who dislikes Morgana just talks about this and September, and I just thought both reasons were kinda 'meh' at best.

>>381764734
If Shiho was better at killing herself Kamoshida would have murdered her with his dick.

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>>381763337
Yusuke's cool but Ryuji overshadows him once he learns Swift Strike, and it only gets worse when Ryuji also gets charge AND has Matarukaja. Yusuke only gets Masukukaja which is no where near as helpful on a physical attacker and never really learns a skill that closes the gap. You pick him if you really REALLY need more ice magic but he's almost strictly a downgrade to Ryuji.

Which is a real shame because Yusuke's a cool character and his awakened persona is one of the best looking among the party. He even gets shafted in the later half of the story as well.

Am I the only one who never used Ryuji or Yusuke?
There was basically nothing weak to electric or ice late game.

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>>381765301
>He even gets shafted in the later half of the story has well
Every character besides Futaba, and Makoto get shafted as soon as the aftermath of their dungeons end.
>>381765435
>Not using physical attackers
Boss fights must have taken an eternity for you

>>381765435
Ryuji is not meant to be used to exploit electric weaknesses.

>>381765557
Boss fights were easy as hell. Granted I played the game on normal, but I never struggled once. Joker's OP as.

>>381765435
They're not really suppose to exploit weaknesses, their attacks hit considerably harder than regular party member would with a neutral magic attack which is why you run them.

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>>381765435
I always had at least one of them in my party. Ryuji's one of the strongest members by the end game. Matarukaja+charge+swift strike destroys anything that doesn't null or repel phys.

>>381765832
>Matarukaja+charge+swift strike
Three turns to end a battle is a lot though

>>381765435
I wanted to use Yusuke considering his raw stats are higher, but charge just makes Ryuji blow him out of the water. Incidentally, he's also indispensable as a member.

>>381756196

There's actually a nice reference in the if... outfit. Hazama was the first boss in SMT to use Debilitate.

>>381765557
>Every character besides Futaba, and Makoto get shafted as soon as the aftermath of their dungeons end.
I really wish this wasn't true but it is, Futaba's hacking skills are so incredibly useful for the party it overshadows everything everyone else can do. Makoto only stays relevant because she's related to Sae, she doesn't do much more than anyone else outside of that.

Yusuke and Haru definitely have it the worst tho, they may as well not even be there by the end of the game. Hopefully they'll get a little more spotlight in the inevitable expansion. Though it's probably just gonna be Futaba's hacking getting the gang through everything

>>381765925
It should be 2. If you're not starting every battle with a persona with auto-mataru you're doing it wrong.